How Frostpunk CHANGED City Builders FOREVER With Morality | Frostpunk 1
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- Опубліковано 13 чер 2023
- Frostpunk has forever changed the city building genre, showing that powerful narratives rich with complex moral dilemmas forcing players into making tough decisions is viable, transforming sandbox games into unforgettable experiences. Join me as today we look at how Frostpunk weaves morality into its design that has made it such as an iconic game. We will be looking through its development, how the story makes you a tyrant, the genius of this mechanic and other masterful aspects of the game that makes us all eager for Frostpunk 2 coming in 2024.
The funny thing is, people who are good at the game show that many of these moral dilemmas only become dilemmas if you haven't been a good leader up until that point. You pay with as much of your people's sweat early as you possibly can, so that their blood isn't spilled later. You run them hard when times are good, and show them compassion and mercy when times are bad. There is no greater feeling than when people march to the storehouses to demand wood, only for you to say "Take it. We have plenty. This is the result of all your work."
copypasta.
Agree, at thé same time it's a lot of minimaxing, it's more than you learn what will happen so much that nothing surprised you more.
Gotta love that feeling when you have 10,000 coal stocked up so when the storm hits you crank the heat up to max and send everyone home from work.
yeah but that requires you to know all the variables before they even come up, which is nonsense.
@@thefinalkayakbossbro, i had like 70k coal and 20k rations ready to go at the end and i still had a total panic attack.
Making players feel is in core principles of 11bit games. That was the philosophy in This War of Mine, in FP1 and now in FP2. Glad you and other players appreciate that, because a lot of effort had been put into it. I hope and believe you'll enjoy Frostpunk 2 :)
I believe we will see some sort of representation of class warfare, between the haves and have nots if you look at the trailer especially when oil is discovered and exploited.
Even if I don't see that, I know the FP2 story will hit me in the feels
@kugalus - If you are who I think you are, would you be interested in an interview expanding upon on how that core principle has been weaved into FP2. It'd be a dream come true to just talk about what we can expect from it :)
I love FP! My only complaint is that its not moddable. If you folks made it moddable it would've stood far longer as a relevant game.
I hope FP2 will be moddable though.
The whole story driven nature of the main game makes it kinda hard I think. But it'd be cool if it was added.
I saw a lot of videos and didn't understood what the fuss was all about. Only recently I started playing and I'm hooked... the moral aspect of the game actually makes you care about these people even when you know they are only lines of code in a program... actually amazing I cant stop playing
This game shows the nature of a person, me and my brother both played for the first time, both succeeded on the first try but i did not cross the line and saved hundreds, my brother went vastly too far.
We know who is the superior brother :D
I died on my first try because I went with order but didnt dare to take it far.
In late game if you are playing as a Order with Hope still around, you are doomed. Hope cant be increased with Order options and it constantly drops.
Then took it just enough to get rid of Hope and did okay.
I was biased against faith for obvious reasons until I played it and realised its far easier to *stay good* with faith than it is for Order. Since Faith is able to restore hope.
But think about then efficiency gains with order, dictators would be proud :D
Or your brother interprets the game as just a game
@@Kronosfobiwhy are you biased against hope?
I am so glad to see someone talk about how while frostpunk is a city builder where how you build your city is a narrative tool to tell a story because i feel like many tried to play it like a sandbox city builder and thats just not what i think the main appeal or focus of the game is.
Thanks for watching the video.
I'm glad you like many others feel the same way I do. How FP isn't a sandbox city builder, it's a narrative city builder which is why it felt so unique. Hoping FP2 explores newer deeper themes :)
Beautiful quality video, you could tell me this is a college essay and I’d believe you!
Can’t wait for frostpunk 2
Thanks Wandy I appreciate it.
I'm so excited for it too, I want to see a gameplay trailer for it so bad
It's 430am.. my boiler just exploded seconds before the end of the storm. Its the furthest I've got so far. That last hour was one of the most tense moment in gaming I've ever had.
How TF am I supposed to sleep now? 😂
I wouldn't sleep either, and I have been in that exact same situation before where I accidentally overloaded my generator 1 day before the storm ended.
I kept this game somewhere before having the gut to play it again. This game is brutal, definitely opened my eyes on many things. It ilustrates how difficult being a leader. A beautiful game. When ideal math, art, philosophy, ethics put together, you get Frostpunk.
Here you can see, when people is out of resources, you will resort to the superstitious power, blind faith and unethical decisions. I look forward to play frostpunk 2
Exactly, survival brings out the monster in all of us. I have high hopes for FP2 :)
5:23 becoming a tyrant jumpscare, very accurate to how it goes in the game once you think about it
Thanks for watching
@@Gamermasonheck yeah! The sudden jump scare is so damn accurate. Oh boy oh boy next law! Shit I’m a monster
The road to hell is paved with good intentions XD
I loved how neglecting safety barely has consequences
Send in the child, save the city XD
Great video, very impressive description of what the game feels like. Last autumn dlc was even more brutal. You are pushed into things like executing one random worker during every morning gathering to ensure your people would be working harder. Interesting catch is that its always entirely your fault. If you would build a better functioning city, you wouldnt need to become tyrant to ensure its survival.
Hopefully Frostpunk 2 will do the same but on a bigger and better scale. :D
"A healthy society must be free of parasites, for the good of working classes, enemies of the people must be eleminated"
Communist anthem.exe. on full blast speaker.....😂😂
It will be much worse in engineer route. You basically creating a gulag......
Queue the Soviet Union National Anthem :D
Playing this on winter makes it even better for the inmersion
What's better for immersion is playing it without a shirt and pants XD
And only eating warm soup and frozen stale bread.
I only play in a walkin freezer
I’m still amazed, years after, at how this low-budget game manages to make me feel so powerless in the last 5 minutes of a run, and yet so invested in them. Seeing everyone die, but choosing to stick with them throught the apocalypse instead of simple reloading or restarting.
Man, I’m so glad that we can now have good story *and* good city building in one game, even if it’s not as complex as others.
That's what makes this city builder stand out for me and hence why I made the video on it. Sandbox city builders didn't feel as impactful as this which makes it a favourite of mine.
Recently I played "On The Edge" dlc and it gives an interesting perspective on the whole formula. All this morality layers in other scenarios are very interesting but still abstract. You push needle of discontent and hope up or down and thats it. Ultimately you are the decision maker and your word is law. Its still that "some of you may die but thats the risk Iam willing to take".
In On The Edge dlc you start as outpost team and being ordered from New London. Not to spoil much but you are getting really pissed on, orders barked at you and your people are dying becouse of neglect and broken promises in suply orders. Sudenly you are on the other side of the mirror and remember all those times you worked people to grave on 24h shift to get that technology during the night so you could build better coal mine before morning. Or that one time storm killed your entire outpost team becouse you hoped for one extra steamcore from Tesla City before calling them back.
More "social interaction" like arguing over radio in on the edge or strikes in the last autumn can be very interesting. It feels like there is so much potential to harnes there and 11bit getting better and better to get strong emotions with each new addition. If Frostpunk II goes deeper in social interactions, faction conflicts, need to defend decision against upset oposition, it can be something trully special.
btw if you havent, check Last of the Lamplight (ua-cam.com/video/ftZ8M20AEF4/v-deo.html). Its incredibly well writen and narrated story of new home campaing from perspective of the captain of New London. Basically great Frostpunk audiobook that goes for over 3 hours and describes in great details emotions, sorrows and hopes of all those abstract workers.
I'll be sure to check out, thanks for bringing it to my attention ❤️
Let us pray brothers to our priests and foreman that FP2 will be another masterpiece.
I still want to know what the hunters are hunting on the frozen plains.
Maybe that's why the polar bears are disappearing 🤔
In my first playthrough I had signed the law to allow me to kill a dissident. I never did. Even when they were voting to oust me I never went all the way. Thankfully just before I was booted the storm broke. The relief I felt was unreal. I had played as if I was actually there. When I had to sacrifice a child I had looked over to my child sleeping in his cot. That was the moment that broke me. Litteral tears as I clicked to kill a kid to save the city.
I saved the city, but at what cost.
Damn what a great story.
The level of empathy that 11 Bit tries to pour into their games is surreal.
@@Gamermason This is why I am excited for Frostpunk 2
The cost was one child
@@darkbladenexas Also my humanity. My faith in myself as a parent.
Could I send my own child to certain death to save the city? Why would anyone else do that if I couldn't?
@Tuck-Shop well if you don't the child dies regardless, so it's not really a sacrifice unless you have a steam core
For me.
Child shelters
Emergency shifts
Engineer’s Assistants
Soup if I need to stretch, otherwise regular meals
Funerals.
For Order
Overseer
Shouty thing
Guard stations
Propaganda
Nothing else
Gotten didn’t go too far every game.
First build is workshop. Rush houses. Rush steam hubs and steam pressers.
Note: not in order. Extended/24 hour shift is first. Also pubs. No dueling, but arena.
My main thing is hope/productivity.
For myself:
I like to play the same adaptation laws as you do except I always get extended shifts as the first thing I rush down.
I prefer the faith path cause of the house of healing just in case but I think I've seen videos that show the order tree is just better productivity wise.
I felt bad in my 1st playthrough when I went full prophet mode but thankfully in subsequent runs, I've never crossed the line again :)
Its 1860s.....
So child labour is pretty realistic....
Also why we need funerals?. Just chuck em in a pit. Its waste of space.....
@@aetius7139 I think when the game judges you it is somewhat by the modern day moral framework so although child labour was extremely common back then, it is horrendous to think of by today's Western Standards even though it is common in other parts of the world in the present day.
@@aetius7139 Just because you are in dire straits does not mean you should abandon all morality. Also blunt your edge.
In hardest difficulty faith>order cus most of faith buildings don't need workers
Came here from you SimCity video and this channel has GOT to blow up soon. You've definitely earnt another subscriber now. Awesome videos dude
Thank you so much for watching and for the sub :)
The thumbnail alone is worth the like ahah
I chuckle every time I see it XD
i wish they showed more of how they made all the models and such. They're all amazing and I want to try and learn something for making my own games and other projects.
Also great analysis, very wel done on every plane, also to me the soundtrack is somewhat reminiscent of the one from Bioshock (especially for the strings in a minor key)
Thanks for watching the video, I very much appreciate it
This game is pretty fun it just needs a detailed explanation on the storage. My coal thumpers were always full and so are my storehouses for food
Interesting care to elaborate? Like as how resources are transmitted to the global pool or if these resources have physical instances in the game?
@@Gamermason Been a while since I played but I remember my thumpers were always full (I had 4 iirc). I had to use an automata to help with the harvest. Manpower was being wasted because the people inside the thumpers couldn't do any extraction until the automata cleared some space. And because of these inefficiencies, I would run out of coal at night.
And the first frost (I think that's what it's called) you had to gather enough food to feed your people. I didn't know how many to build because I couldn't find an explanation on the storage of the food buildings.
@@BURGATRON 4 thumpers is too much in my opinion. The ratio is 1 thumper to 2 gathering posts which can be manned by 15 people each. In my runs I've never had to use 4 thumpers, although I used coal mines instead which transfer the resources directly to the global pool. A rule of thumb is that 1 automaton is equivalent to an extended shift.
For food, I just kept checking the food charts religiously always making sure to be in the green.
I do agree though that storage could be explained better, particularly if it comes to when resources are considered stored and available in the global pool.
BTW thanks for watching
@@Gamermason Had no idea coal mines did that. Will start a new playthrough with this in mind and hopefully I'll beat the game this time. Thanks for the help my friend and it was my pleasure to watch your video!
first things first of all that changed city builders is that it the danger is real. You can feel oppresing atmosphere as you play, the changes in temepeature, the feeling od dread, huge amount of shit being thrown at you everyday. To be honest this is what makes this game great, you undestand what is going on, you neeed morality to either stay human or survive. There is no in between, Morality in this game isn't some kind strange thing like being called good or bad on some arbitrary grounds. But something that is real, you can and will understand the needed changes in city becouse you may needed, and it is known that you are in danger constantly. This is not your Anno or Banished. Sure in Banished they are some problems with winter and food, but you can mitgate it easly, here you have tools, but half of these tools are expensive, you cannot trade( in main game ) you are islolated and you know there is no help. You either survive or die, and if you die there is only one way the cold. The workers in this game are also important, while haveing names help them one bark from few of them and the eve of new day helps you undestand them an little. They know whats going on, they will tell you that even without indicators. And the city must Survive couse it is the only city on earth so far we know .
Nicely done video! You're great at video editing and narration! And you hit all of the points I hoped to see as a player of Frostpunk already. Amazing job!
I do agree with the increasingly unethical options becoming a better option as conditions deteriorate in your city. Soon, you'll work to the New Order/Faith, where hope won't ever be a issue.
In my opinion, it'll show you just how much of a monster you'll become by abandoning your morals when faced with a hard problem.
The only thing I could ask more of is you reviewing The Last Autumn or On The Edge DLC's, which have their own twist on the game's morality debates.
Thank you so much for watching and your kind comments.
The last autumn and on the edge will definitely be covered in the future.
Any thoughts on what would be interesting to cover from those DLCs?
@@Gamermason From The Last Autumn, potentially the new laws, mechanics, and objectives, and how they all align with the setting you’re being presented with. One thematic across all the scenarios I’ve seen is the presence of a moral debate, like between New Manchester and your city in the Arks, or your city and the Londoners in A New Home. Arguably, something close to those do exist in these DLC’s. (One tip: there’s a TON of lore you can find by scouting out locations in this scenario, as well as resources that will help with your objective.)
On The Edge is basically the same ideas as above, except with some VERY interesting mechanics, where you can see multiple viewpoints of many smaller settlements that survived from the great storm. This DOES involve New London, the city you previously built in A New Home. Overall, it allows you to see how the great storm has affected New London and surrounding areas. (Again, scouting can give you some insane lore, and, while not providing you with materials, can provide closure on how some scout locations, like Tesla City and Winterhome, have fared after the events of the storm.)
I’m not sure if you played either of the DLC’s, and I don’t want to spoil anything for you. Have fun battling the cold again!
Every time I think about going back to frostpunk then think na Im not in the mood to make myself depressed. Still important that games like like this exist. Its greatest strength is it confronts people with consequences of their own idealism or at least blind spots.
Great analysis, you've explained so many aspects of the game!
Glad you enjoyed it, I hope to do these more to balance out the negativity from my EA killed series of videos
A comment of thanks.
Someone left a note under this video comment section, it reads: 'Thank you for capturing so well the essence of the game and making a wholesome well explained video about it. Much appreciated'
Hyped for numba 2
Pre-order it XD
I only regret that I can't unsign the "pledge of loyalty" and that I can't rewrite the Propaganda center to be more useful, like allowing me to assign workplaces based on travel time for specific people or something else that helps with planning.
I was able to beat the Arks easily, helping the other city too.
The social hierarchy was defeated-a bit harder, but yeah.
I didn't use child labor in any of them.
The only thing I am not proud of is that I used prostitutes. I would unsign it if I could after we are done with the problems.
THE GAME DOESN'T LET ME REVOKE MY POWERS, YEAH, SURE; POWER CORRUPTS, THAN LET ME THROW IT AWAY.
It forces my hand in this, And it lacks a lot of fun features, like:
-Marriage (It could be gay too!)
-Anti-corruption (no, that event with the lady doesn't count.)
Functional schools (idc if they work slowly)
-Some new tech (like: Steam core production; higher housing for more people to live in; multiple outposts from one place)
-Multiple cities (I know it is likely hard, but it could just run 2 separate city simulations next to each other.)
-Optimization in graphics (PLEASE. There are people with potato computers, and I am one of them; I don't need the aesthetics; I want the mechanics.)
I think when it comes to un-signing the pledge or prostitute laws, it would diminish the weight of your decisions narratively speaking. For the other features you mentioned, let us hope at least some of them are incorporated into FP2 :)
The first game I played with moral dilemmas was This War of Mine.
"Do you save plants or help tge freezing people?"
-Both?
-Both.
-Both is good.
But can you.........OR will you fail both?
@@Gamermason who dares, wins!
And it's not like I am unable to replay it infinitely before I am able to save both.
@@kalimatronix True got me there XD
Elon Musk bad guys now give me my Reddit gold😎
I don't know I reckon he's the best billionaire-weight class fighter around XD
can you do this on other survival genre games, ive find it its very entertaining and inspire,, much appreciated
Sure thing, what would you have in mind?
Attempts the game makes to guilt trip the player for making pragmatic choices in order for survival of the many,is weak and naive. In the world of frostpunk,every hour spent idle means someone goes hungry, without warmth of home,or without a home at all,goes sick,dies. Women,men, children, working class or engineer,no one is safe. And so all must do their part,or collectively die. Ends justify the means,and theres no bigger end than long term survival. No one is idle, nothing goes to waste,not even the dead,their bodies can save the sick and feed the hungry after being composted.Humanism hinders progress,and outright threatens survival,so it must be left behind.
Spoken like a true believer of consequentialism :D
From a purely pragmatic point of view you are right.... but what is the point of making human kind survive at the cost of their humanity?
@@jonatanschwindt8065 So that when the snow finally melts, there's a humanity left to condemn your memory.
@pylonmountain9239
Agree from a totally practical point. But if you push the line too far does what come out thenother side even be called humanity at that point or some bastardisation of it?
I think this argument is exactly the point of the game, and different people will see it in different ways... how much do you concede until is too much?, where is the line
Frostpunk. Work your denizens hard in "good times" so you can have it easier during the hard times.
I have never ever used the ‘extreme’ options like triage or corpse pits or organ transplant or supreme-overlord. Not out of any moral reason - they just didn’t ever seem worth it. To have a corpse pit for later healing is to double your loss of hope from deaths. Triage increases the kill-rate of a very finite resource. Stashing people in a half-ration care home until you had the facilities to get them back on their feet only had a small upfront cost of wood. It just wasn’t logical to do anything else. I keep meaning to try the extreme overlord paths but, in hundreds of hours of play, it’s always seemed like something likely to negatively impact my progress rather than improve it at great moral cost.
Eh, Triage is an emergency button if your healthcare facilities are completely overwhelmed, and makes sense in that specific context. Anything short of that, you wouldn't hit that button anyway. Organ transplants on the corpse pit is absolutely worth it though, given you get the advantages even if you have barely any deaths.
It's out chilly out ain't it?
Even 10 degrees Celsius is too cold for me XD
I just wish there was more variety in the moral decisions/options you have. It feels like it beats you over the head with the "its easy to slip into authoritarianism" too hard. Here's to better mechanics in the sequel!
You can't really compare Frostpunk with Cities Skylines. Frostpunk is a scenario-based resource management game whereas CS is a sandbox with rules.
i played this game so much it made me regret pirating it so i bought it
I'm sure he's just kidding folks
*looks nervously at the internet police
Same for me bro… And I was talking with my brother yesterday about this. When FP2 launches, I’ll buy it straight away, I think piracy is not really bad, because it allows you to play the game first, and then you just buy to support the developers.
@@digosalgueiro
When you finally an adult and regret having fun without paying for it. That's what happened here
That's how you know it's a great game, when even the pirates think that the developers deserve their money
@@Gamermason
Some people are ethical pirates.
People that use the seven seas as a means of trying the game out. After all, take something like strategy games or open world games. How could you possibly know if the game is worth it in just two hours before steam says you can't refund it? Strategy games especially. You don't even know how to play yet within just one hour. Not really anyways.
From what I understand most gamers who pirate don't just want something for free. They just think the corporate prices are absolutely egregious and that the practices for returning and refunding electronic (or often even physical) products is absolutely unfair to the consumer.
As a supporter of capitalism I have to agree with them.
the comments from achievement hunters on this game are 2nd to none
Care to give an example? :D
@@Gamermason lol they were along the lines of "im not gonna sugar coat it guys theres gonna be little food, people are gonna die were getting iron man"
Sounds like frost themed grimdark. Probably has no good ending either.
It does if you play well enough to master the resource management mechanics.
Just dont cross the line
Average Minnesota December
I take it you will give up your place at the generator site for me ;)
Really liked the video EXCEPT FOR....when you were doing your litlle breakdown of the music, you never bothered to turn the music up in the mix between when you spoke and music. So when sitting here listening at a volume for listening to someone talk, the music is basically inaudible. So you're talking about these different music elements and pausing to let us listen to.....what? Just heard next to nothing. This is something you can DEFINITELY improve on in the future. Just remember to turn the music up in the mix for those pauses.
I literally almost stopped watching an otherwise great video because this threw me off so hard.
Ah sorry about that, thanks for watching the video. I'll definitely turn it up for any future videos with music breakdowns.
@@Gamermason That'd be awesome! Because the video was REALLY good, made me want to go back to Frostpunk actually and finish it. And you're totally right about the soundtrack!
Realized my whole post was mostly negative, had to prop out the good parts!! Keep up the good work, dude!
I made it through a playthrough without using child labor and without triage. I saved all the refugees and about 40 people died near the end of the storm (out of 683). I didn’t pass any laws that went into totalitarianism. And didn’t cross the line.
That makes you think you can only be as moral as you can afford to be.
i dare you to play shots game on "moral"
I think I'll end up in the emergency room XD
WOW i was like watching this thinking its just another Video from channels like IGN and stuff like uk the Big Boys then while it was finishing came down to give a like to see BRUH this isnt as i thought
You make your Videos OP you ll one day be from the " Big Boys "
Thanks man, I try. Eager to just share more about great games.
"Revolutionised" is a bit much. It's just trying to do its own thing within the city builder formula.
I don't see an issue with becoming a monster. Morality is concept of comfortable times, just another luxury you have to go on without, when your existence is at stake.
True but think of it this way, if other settlements survived without doing things too drastically could they ever trust you if your society went too far? Its like in the real world where democratic governments are inherently distrustful of dictatorships and the like. That's my take, you don't want to damn yourself too much in case you lock yourself out of peaceful interactions with others.
@@Gamermason So, strongest ones will survive, and weaker ones will be eradicated.
Peace is possible, when you got abundance of resources, not when every source of fuel, every iron mine and every steam core can be difference between going on and perishing.
To do well enough in the game to get the "good" endings you have to min max and cheese. The moral dilemmas are usually BS and you get punished dor making the "wrong" choice. Also it's rare to get morally ambiguous endings, most of the time it feels like you're getting lectured
It really hasn't though...
Respectfully disagree, I think we will see more city sims intertwine narratives with mechanics, seeing more set piece storytelling in this genre
@@Gamermason No i'm saying this isn't new, the game is new (-er), but the idea of having an intertwined narrative with a city builder isn't. Off the top of my head, Black and White, Tropico, They Are Billions, Anno, Caesar, and if we're stretching then Stellaris fits that mold too. All of these do that aspect of managing civilizations and cities with a story impacted by player decisions, and years prior to FrostPunk. The game is fine, I had fun with it. But I was a lot more impressed with art style than its story or its gameplay, if anything it felt infantile in its morality.
Thanks for your nuanced take on this I appreciate it.
I think the core difference between our opinions here is the distinction is the degree of impact a story can have on the gameplay experience. I agree those games that you mentioned do have narrative elements within them. Tropico being about a island dictator and Anno with the choosing between heavy industrialism or environmentalism. Stellaris though is a 4x game that is more about emergent storytelling through player decisions rather than the story impacting gameplay. The problem for me is those games repeatedly place the player in a new sandbox area left to fill with some flavour text to contextualise the restrictions in your gameplay. Frostpunk does do this too but I think that the game does a much better job of integrating the pre-set storytelling into the experience, intertwining to a greater degree than all of those that have come before it.
As for morality, it is difficult to execute the concept very well as 11 Bit has the philosophy of relying on the empathy of the player to drive the emotional reaction. That is, it is within the eye of the beholder to how you feel about your potentially immoral decisions. I think there was a comment in this video about a dude sending a child to save the generator and he was a dad so he looked over at his real life son just thinking about what he had done. It showcases how morality is difficult to do due to the diverging range of experiences and attitudes people hold.
huuuhh???
le you can add le story?? huhhhh???????
le game good? huuh??
Yep simple as that
Frostpunk is extremely shallow and lazy. The ahistorical and presentism aspect makes it even worse. The game presents itself as an alt-history tale of the Victorian era with the change occurring in 1886 when Mount Tambora and Krakatora erupt causing a volcanic winter. The devs clearly couldn't be bothered to read about the Victorian era and society at that time, let alone how people behave in a survival situation. They just use modern ideas and perspectives on how judge the black and white choices. The morality aspect is a joke and it's just a tired political game. There are no actual moral dilemmas in this game. There have been City Builders and various other kinds of games that insert moral philosophies into the game and allows more than two routes/paths to go down. This game isn't particularly original or unique. I don't understand how this game is anything new and unique?
For the morality aspect not to be a total joke and have any meaningful impact or work, one needs to get to know the situation in great detail and the people in said situation. This games doesn't allow that.
First off: Awful thumbnail. Why the hell did you choose to have a Nazi parade and the governor from pirates of the carribean as your representatives of...what even? Is the Order path what you think National-Socialism is?
Second. Im sorry, but you emphasise so much on the moral aspects of the game it wonders me if we have played the same game. Not all laws are "moraly questionable" You can have additionall food for the sick, have kids help out the engineers (yes learning is good) and enact laws for leisure activities.
My point is. What everyone playing the game will realise is that after after a few runs you will start to need less and less laws the more you master the economic aspects of the game. Up to the point where you only enact the few that make your people actually happy and dont even think about the rest. Sure the evil option is always available...But why should i choose it when everybody is warm and happy and hope is going up solely by the passive effects? The Moral options solely act as an ingame Difficulty slider, giving you extensive buffs in exchange for some dark words at the end.
To a degree you even have this in City skylines. Defunding the Police and Firedepartments in a poor area solely because Tax revenue is not worth it has the same energy
Frostpunk is a niche game. Sure its amazing. But it will not change the world of Strategy Gaming. It has the same influence as any other S-Game of its size.
Hey man thanks for the comment. I'll address it in order of your points:
1. Well we all got to start somewhere, I've only started learning how to use photoshop so I know the quality isn't there right now but it'll improve. I chose the Nazi parade as the Order path embodies elements of fascism and Nazis are generally signify that, hence I chose it. I see your point about the guy, he is the same actor for the Pirates but he also plays the High Sparrow in Game of Thrones, so that's why he's there.
2. Yes not all laws are morally questionable, my point was to detail the conflict between making bad choices especially when you are in desperate situations. Mastery of the resource management side means you can be perfectly morally good.
I do acknowledge your point defunding essential services in Cities Skylines, but disagree it has the same narrative weight to the game. In Frostpunk, people can die and can get injured so the stakes in Frostpunk just weightier than Skylines.
3. Disagree with your final point. Frostpunk showed there was still room to grow for the city sim genre, instead of being a sandbox builder, you could tell powerful narratives about concepts such as morality. It may not have been the first but it definitely the first mainstream game that demonstrated it.
@@Gamermason Its totaly okay that we do not agree on all points. Thanks for the elaborate answer. Love the new thumbnail btw!