How i fit back boxes in smeggy lathe & plaster walls
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- Опубліковано 8 бер 2020
- The old conundrum of how to fit metal back boxes into poor substrates like broken brickwork or lathe and plaster.
These are some of tips i have picked up along the way so i thought this was worth a share.
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WARNING:
This video is for entertainment purposes only. If you use the information from this video for your own projects then you assume complete responsibility for the results.
Before we had pad saws, we used hacksaw blades snapper in half, ground down to a point at one end & taped up the other end with insulation tape. Multi tools ? Wow 😂. PS, I go back a long way, I'm 80
I'm 60 and hacksaw blade on cut on back stroke, never used multi tool on, when have used on solid timber does vibrate expect not good for old lathe and plaster
the old ways are best! what would everyone do without power tools! nice to read how it used to be done 😊
@@algreene9965 I'm 60 too !! Remember the days of the snapped off hacksaw blade. I'm sure I used to have a holder for one. Young sparks nowadays dont know how easy they've got it
Yep, good old insulation tape the general diy handle, used that loads of times and I'm only 65!
Half a hacksaw blade and a short length of copper pipe as a handle squashed flat on one end to secure the blade made a great handle.
What we tend to do on lath and plaster walls especially if client wants metal plates is we break out a large section of lath from stud to stud at the height we want the box at and install a timber support for the box then fit the box and install and new piece of plasterboard. Works a treat and is properly solid.
Me 2 best way
Yep bit of filler around the plasterboard flat it, good solid fix.
Fantastic video mate, always look forward to them 👍🏼 Not a tradesman myself but find these really entertaining !
We just did and some of us still don't need those tools, lol
As to dry lining boxes in lath....not something I entertain. It costs the customer more, but I cut out a section of lath between the uprights, then I install a noggin and mount a metal back box onto it. Lastly I cut a piece of plasterboard to replace the lath I removed, then plaster over it.
Yeah takes a bit longer not much but it’s a far better job the the cables are out of the way of nail guns etc when skirting goes on
Just a bit of plaster board cut to size and it’s done
Nearly my whole career has been rewiring old farm houses and the like, and this is exactly the way I've always done it. Cables in zone, all the way from below floor to the socket, and at sufficient depth to avoid screws and nails anyway.
Another interesting upload. I find your videos really helpful, currently finishing lvl2 at college and find your videos gives an insight into how jobs ACTUALLY go rather than how they should go because a book says so. Keep the vids coming and much respect!!!!
I do a similar thing but I normally use mortar or bonding coat. Foam is a great shout, cheers Tommy!
"Back in the 90s" ... God I feel old now. My first job was in 1981.
Paul Drake
Same
I finished training in East Croydon 1981
What I normally do, as the joists/posts are every 300mm or so in a lathe and plaster wall, get a deep (47mm) metal back box, drill 2 or 3 holes in the side of it, cut the hole out the wall with the joist at one edge, slide in the back box and screw to the side of the joist. Provided the client's happy for some sockets to shift a few inches from intended position.
I appreciate this insight into dry liners and low expansion foam, new solutions for me 👍🏻
Joists...posts....neither. try studs ffs
Yes, rock solid.
they will be 16 inches on center
The word you're looking for is studs. Joists are for floors.
When I am pulling pvc cables through a hole in a joist I always put some soapy water on them with a old paint brush, it helps to stop burning and damaging the other cables and pulls through much easier especially if you're pulling the cables through on your own and the water soon evaporates away then you have finish.
Thanks for the great tips, Tom. Really appreciate your videos!
My father was a sparky, and the one tip he told me was, when working in older houses where mice could be living, put an extra hole through joists for them, that way they won't chew out the cables for access.
Dum dum
@@pablomagee2999 I think after 60yrs in the trade, he knew what he was talking about.
Also leave a small bed so they don't use the cable for a nest
That’s a good one
Little buggers still chew the cables tho
Your videos are amazing. Thank you for creating them 👍
Great little circular saw there Tom, very helpful in your job , good tip to have adjustable depth to protect yourself and the customer, good video
This has been one of the most informative videos for me as I'm about to move into a victorian property which no doubt will need some improvement. Thanks T.
Handy trick with the foam around back box, always look forward to your videos, keep up the good work
Some good tips there. Much appreciated!
Good idea using the foam.Thanks for the upload.
I tend to run a blunt blade on the multi tool through the bottom glob of plaster on lathe walls - just to get the cables a little more recessed to make sure no one else snags them before the wall is plastered. I used to mix up a bucket of bonding and do all the boxes at once, but will definitely be switching to the insta stik method! Great vid as usual mate 👍
When I started I made a selection of small saws (similar to modern pad saws) to make cut outs in lath & plaster, it was a pain but it was something you got used to, there wasn't an alternative.
Very good advice for new sparks out there who may only of had experience of plasterboard at college.....for the rest of us, the struggle is real.
Normally i use bonding, however i will be using this from now on. Thanks mate.
Literally just finished a rewire on a 30s built house with lath walls throughout, managed to squeeze the Appleby boxes in to them with a bit of swearing. Customer says she wants a TV on that wall as well... Good luck I said. Also for fixing in a box to a brick already smashed from chiselling it out, I keep a bucket of plasterboard dab on the van, mix it up fairly thick and it goes off in a few hours rock solid. Keep up the good work Tom luv ya.
Matthew Nelson ... try using some bonding plaster with a couple of hand fulls of cement mixed in , its rock solid in 15 mins.....👍
We use two bits of roofing batten pass them through the double back box hole then fix either side with wood screws through the plaster top and bottom then a 47mm glav back box as they have the fixing holes punched out around the front edge then fix to the batten. Also use a 400mm long 20mm flat bit to drill down from the back box hole through the crap in the bottom of the stud and then through the floor plate into the joist bay fucks the bit after a job or so but worth it or drill with an sds bit through the crap and finish the floor plate off with the flat bit avoids having to strip the plaster off, sometimes if screws the plaster but that’s just the nature of lathe and plaster 😅
Nice info 👍🏼
That’s a great tip with the foam keep up the great videos
I use a mix of Plaster BONDING and BED the back box in to opening. Great video BTW 👌
same but use old plaster board adhesive mixed thick and sets really quick.
Hi Tom.
Yes I know lath and plaster can be a git and a half. I mostly do it like You do.
Thanks for the tips with the "blue" plaster boxes, I normally use Appleby, but nice to know these exist.
Also thanks for tips on the foam technique.
With lath and plaster I think You need all the tips you can get your hands on.
I've been put off putting downlighters in lath and plaster ceilings before.
Hi Tom, instead of using foam, get yourself a bag of bonding coat. Mix it up, slap it the hole, put in your back box, push it in & tap with a small hammer, until flush & square. Come back in 30 mins should be solid. Lathe & plaster , I sometimes put a bit of timber in the hole for the back box screw it from the other side of the wall, usually takes 2 people. Then screw your box to the timber batten, fill holes in wall behind. 👍🏼
Chuck in a cup of cement with the bonding! Goes off quicker
Foam is quicker and easier to carry a can than having bonding and mixing buckets in the van.
Another great video👍🏻
good tip with the foam Tom 👍 ive seen it done before but never needed to use it yet myself apart from that one time with a bathroom fan! 😊
Thanks Tom for the video. I had always cut a full section of lathe and plaster and brought my own piece of 12.5mm plasterboard and used the Appleby boxes.
Always use expanding foam in naff bricks!!
Never thought of using foam I've always used bonding or drywall adhesive. Great tip I'll be using foam from now on
Good Shout Tom thanks for sharing !
Hi Tom, you should try the Worx WX plunge saw. Some will say it’s a bit DIY, but I find its great on house rewire jobs. It’s mega safe with the blade being covered all the time and you can fit diamond blades for chasing out. It also has a dust extraction outlet, so that you can fit a vac to it.
I also find fitting a short length of round plastic conduit and a adaptor instead of capping, helps to hold the box in place.
Hi Thomas keep up the good work, another tip on bedding metal back boxes on dodgy brick work ,I use bonding plaster tries quicker once it has dried drill a whole to secure it as normally do
nice idea on the foam
Love my little Bosch saw. Got one a few years ago when I was doing my own kitchen. Also was considering a Bosch heated jacket and those are the batteries that fit it
I’m rewiring my house atm and I decided the best way was to cut out a section of lath and plaster to halfway across both uprights then cover with plasterboard. You’ve then got a modern fixing and very little making good work to do.
Hi tom
I usually multi tool out a square from one stud to another about 300mm deep and piece in a bit of plasterboard and use dry lining boxes.
Ohhhh you've opened yourself to the wrath of the "experts" on UA-cam with this video. Love it!!
Good vid Tom 👍👍⚒️⚒️⚒️
There are plasterboard boxes around that are designed for double skin boarding, the lugs go way deeper. 👍
Tugs toys only found out about those a few weeks ago. Had to fit a data outlet into a double skinned wall. Ended up using my pad saw to chamfer out the back of the 2nd board. Could get a normal Appleby box in there. Was a right faff though!
When performing a rewire these days we only use expanding foam. It's a fantastic material for stabilizing old walls such as lath and plaster. Even old block walls which have been bonded and skimmed where which the bonding has come away from the block due to poor scudding or simply age can be saved by drilling shallow holes to the Block and pumping in small amounts off low expansion foam. Noel Walsh MD Magnetech Solid Solutions Ltd
Thanks for that tom! I’ll look into using the Centaur boxes. The amount of times i needed something like that, i would of finished the day an hour early😅😂
nice tip with the foam
In the states we cut boxes into lath by first finding the top and bottom of the center lath... completely cut out the center lath with a fine tooth key hole saw and half of each of the lath above and below the center lath.... this leaves enough wood to screw 1” #4 wood screws to secure the box
Thanks Tom
Funny spotting this.. I used expanding foam to fix a back box a while back when I couldn’t secure it. I used a plasterboard foam adhesive from screwfix which was reusable. Was able to use the tin 3 times before it ran out.
5:46 - very artsy with the shadow of dripping foam :-)
Those Centaur boxes at 8:00 have to be worth a try. Thanks Tom.
Good tips, thanks.
Again great video Tom...many thx for some new tips and tricks....should realise a book....Handy tops and tricks by Tom😂😂😂
Nice video. I use 47 mm boxes on lath and plaster. Also use the lath you have cut out, and put vertically across the laths to give the lugs something to hold on to. Bit fiddly though.
Foam is great when you don't want to use bonding (external facing walls)
I like to put a bit of grip fill round the edge of the box, (even if its plaster board) then with a bit of trunking lid across the box with two holes in for the screws, nip it up nice and tight, while the grip goes off. I find the cable in the boxes can move the box a little, and when you come back after its been skimmed, the box might have moved. The grip keeps it solid, and the plaster also won't pop around the edge.
Wipe off the excess grip though, or you will have an angry plasterer.
Like that little saw very smart that's going on works account thanks Thomas 🤣
Dow Foam Very good, as to water I use a 1ltr or 2ltr hand sprayer to moisten surface.
Bondit foam guns are great, as you can fully strip them down unlike some other brands.
Just cut the small tabs on the yellow wings on the Appleby box - gives you miles more distance to push them back
Hi Tom
It's Tom :P
Try using the MK K2061 and K2062 flanged plastic boxes and you can put 4 screws directly into the lath these work really well.
oooh, ta
Love that saw 😍😂
Talcum powder is an excellent dry lubricant for drawing in cables. Works well on T&E particularly when drawing new cable through existing bunched cable or through pvc trunking or conduit. Also good for drawing in singles through pvc conduit.
I've always used plasterboard adhesive for backboxes - goes off quick too
Even with lath and plaster, in north America you typically have vertical studs to affix the boxes to (not a lot of brick construction). I assume since you're working in victorian homes there isn't really a way since as you said, they just built a house. I've been rewiring some 100 year old houses and have had to make different things work! If I can't find a stud in a convenient location, I will just use an old-work box (in metal for Canada/blue plastic in the states), those are similar to the plastic boxes you used, I can't think of a better method! Good work as always.
I love the fact that you show what you need to do in real life rather than - oh the book says this so I need to follow the book. Common sense its a rare commodity these days.
I use back boxes which you can get the lugs behind 2 layers of plaster board, I think they may be Knightsbridge but not too sure while at home.
Working as an electrician over 20 year's and the old way is the best. When working on old brick walls cables pipe box all tracked in to wall then good old sand and cement mix. Once it drys it's going no where.👍
Well tomas I'm installing some swa glands and was wondering what the banjo is for thanks
Awesome bro... really entertaining..
If you have a spray water bottle, damp the area first as you did with bottle then watch the foam expand to desired thickness then spray it with water it stops expanding. saves going back to trim it.
If that works then that's tip of the week for me.👍
Thanks so much for this one Thomas. Actually got a light switch I need to fit in a lathe plaster wall - really helped!!!!
Good video.
If there’s one thing I don’t miss after moving to Oz, it’s spending hours lifting up frickin floorboards.
That was before multi tools as well.
JP,
Over here in NZ, we ended up with a few things the Poms bought with them, mainly but not exclusively, floorboards, lath and plaster walls and ceilings (in houses built between the wars) and I have struck the odd house where there are
BS 1363? outlets and ring circuits.
Strange I know.....
@ Thomas Nagy,
One of the few power tools my boss, when I was an apprentice lashed out on was a 9" angle grinder, to work with lath and plaster walls.
After having used that once, without any dust-mask or eye protection, I flatly refused to ever do domestic work ever again (I was a 3rd year at that time).
I was threatened with the sack a number of times, but said I could work on commercial and industrial stuff and bring in more money.
Fortunately for me, I was right and I never had to use the 9" again. Ever....
Another pain in the neck wall type is densely packed Straw boarded walls( prefab boards made of straw plastered over) , try chasing into that it sticks together and is quite tight.
I always try to find a vertical joist and fix a metal box to that, buy the time the laf and plaster has been removed you only need to notch out a few mil of the joist, that only takes a minute with a multi tool and chisel
Bonding plaster is excellent for fixing metal boxes to old walls , keep some for a couple of months in your garage and it goes off very quickly
Hi tom why not use mk flange boxes, that's all we use up here for lathe and plaster.
I did not know these existed! Thanks mate
I've got that little Bosch saw, you really need the bigger battery with it.
How many amps are you happy with in you're batteries?
Regarding the foam gun,always when finished using fully close the valve... a joiner told me that and I’ve never had a problem with blocking even on a gun that’s not been used for a few months
We rip the shingles off the walls and sheet the wall and use expanding foam the same way 🙂
Mate duno how they do it in england but any time we do a rewire in northern ireland, domestic dwelling we use pvc pipe, do use not put any mechanical protection over the cables?
What's the unibond adhesive you were using please ?
By far the easiest way to fit a back box in poor brick work. Have had a few funny looks from customers though!
When I know brick work not great I go old school with hammer and bolster
New Bosch advertising slogan....."Try our new circular saw.....It's a powerful little fu**er!".
Having been a sparkie right through the 90s I can say that the multi tools made life easier. But I would, and still do, fix the back boxes to the timber frame and not to the laths.
That circular saw does look small but mighty 👍
I have M12 saw, with the 6ah battery work well, struggles a little on knots, especially when cutting at max depth of 44mm
Evening Tom!
Nice one
Nice video
How we did it in the old days. Were hammer, chisel or bolster. To drill holes it was a rawplug tool. The hardest job I had was running Pyro a long a bank well, ended up using a size 6 with a half oz hammer, any heavier and the raw bit would shatter.
Good one
Do you not have reno boxes and F-Clips?
Lime plaster with horse hair was typically used in Wales on lathe and plaster walls and the underside of slated roofs.
Love how you've gone to Bosch instead of Milwaukee 😂😂😂 Bosch for life 😁😂
The foam is good shout Tom, fair play especially with old houses but should it be... I don't know, sort of fire rated? Just a thought. Keep up the good work, love the videos.
Saludos good job
Instead of expanding foam you could use an instant grab adhesive, the one I found works best is "sticks like shit" from Jewsons, it will stick just about anything to anything.
The centaur boxes are a lot better than the yellow boxes you get at screwfix. I’ve done a lot of reinforced walls with ply and plasterboard and the blue clip boxes are perfect.
i don't know what you call them in uk but i used to use a keyhole saw to cut plaster walls like that. it is a tapered saw with a handle on it, by hand!
john cajka pad saw
Hi, I am from belgium,
We use for boxes in the wall cement or "knauf"
We use a very difrend type of boxes and we never use metal boxes, they doesn't excist...
And the cable in the walls, why they not in a flexible pipe?
Regards!
The flexible pipe isn't required to comply with our regulations. Some electricians use capping (plastic or metal) which fits over the cables and is nailed or screwed into the motar bed, some use an oval conduit. Not a requirement though.
Thomas i think they used surface-mounted socket
.
Nice
Is it worth using the multi tool on the bottom couple of lathes then tucking the cables behind? What is the reason for not using metal capping? Not viable?
Metal capping is a waste of time still nail or drill in to it no problem