Psychedelics: "The WORST Censorship of Research in History!" - Drug Science & Policy with David Nutt
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- Опубліковано 9 чер 2024
- A special one for me, an hour-long interview with Professor David Nutt, a man who has been at the forefront of research into psychedelics, cannabis, MDMA, tobacco and alcohol for almost 4 decades. His work is not only fascinating but unbelievably important and could lead to a revolution in how we think about drugs, but more importantly, how we can use them to help people.
00:00 Why Prof Nutt is a hero
01:51 The Nutt case & Nutt sack
04:55 Interview start
05:25 Politicians vs scientists 2009 to 2021
07:42 Slap in the face
09:03 Does the UK get anything right?
09:31 Medical cannabis & its promise
12:50 Why don't doctors prescribe cannabis?
15:09 What can HCWs do to help?
17:06 How to learn more
17:56 Why drug research is so hard
19:28 "They'll steal the heroin!"
21:20 Who killed psychedelic research?
25:34 Did recreational drug use ruin things?
26:55 What is a psychedelic?
28:00 MDMA is the opposite of a psychedelic
28:50 Did drugs help humans evolve?
30:24 A lost sleep revolution & how the brain makes humans human
34:12 CTRL+ALT+DEL for the brain?
37:18 The power of psychedelic psychotherapy
39:24 Psilocybin vs SSRI antidepressants
43:47 Timothy Leary was wrong
46:26 Aldous Huxley, mescaline & opening the brain
47:05 "You probably haven't seen those since you were a baby"
48:25 The brain orchestra and default mode network
49:44 How psychedelics break habits
51:41 Fly on the wall for psychedelic therapy
53:50 "Fuck off I'm talking to God!"
55:20 Ayahuasca retreats vs conventional therapy
57:32 Does psychedelic hype worry you?
59:27 Steve Jobs & the role of money
01:01:20 Stigma against mental health
01:02:09 Is the USA leading the way?
01:03:08 Harnessing the power of placebo
01:04:22 Silicon Valley & Micro-dosing
01:09:16 Closing
The Drug Science charity, independent unbiased drug information: www.drugscience.org.uk/
Check out the Drug Science podcast as well open.spotify.com/show/2hLSRIS...
References mentioned:
Trial of Psilocybin versus Escitalopram for Depression www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056...
Self-blinding citizen science to explore psychedelic microdosing elifesciences.org/articles/62878
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More Medlife Crisis:
www.medlifecrisis.co.uk
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/ @medlife2
watchnebula.com/medlifecrisis
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/ medlifecrisis
00:00 Why Prof Nutt is a hero
01:51 The Nutt case & Nutt sack
04:55 Interview start
05:25 Politicians vs scientists 2009 to 2021
07:42 Slap in the face
09:03 Does the UK get anything right?
09:31 Medical cannabis & its promise
12:50 Why don't doctors prescribe cannabis?
15:09 What can HCWs do to help?
17:06 How to learn more
17:56 Why drug research is so hard
19:28 "They'll steal the heroin!"
21:20 Who killed psychedelic research?
25:34 Did recreational drug use ruin things?
26:55 What is a psychedelic?
28:00 MDMA is the opposite of a psychedelic
28:50 Did drugs help humans evolve?
30:24 A lost sleep revolution & how the brain makes humans human
34:12 CTRL+ALT+DEL for the brain?
37:18 The power of psychedelic psychotherapy
39:24 Psilocybin vs SSRI antidepressants
43:47 Timothy Leary was wrong
46:26 Aldous Huxley, mescaline & opening the brain
47:05 "You probably haven't seen those since you were a baby"
48:25 The brain orchestra and default mode network
49:44 How psychedelics break habits
51:41 Fly on the wall for psychedelic therapy
53:50 "Fuck off I'm talking to God!"
55:20 Ayahuasca retreats vs conventional therapy
57:32 Does psychedelic hype worry you?
59:27 Steve Jobs & the role of money
01:01:20 Stigma against mental health
01:02:09 Is the USA leading the way?
01:03:08 Harnessing the power of placebo
01:04:22 Silicon Valley & Micro-dosing
01:09:16 Closing
@@intimpulliber7376 I'm not being a contrarian, I just have to ask if you know for sure what "regular person" means in the context of that research, if you've even read it. Are subjects filtered out on the basis of disorders that can aggressively increase or decrease serotonin on their own, like bipolar disorder, schizophrenia and depression? I would say that's impossible to do well, because of undiagnosed cases, which are numerous due to stigma around mental health. These things can SEVERELY affect the numbers and it matters VERY MUCH for us to know exactly what the data Actually Says.
"The Nutt case & Nutt sack"? That's funny as fuck.
@@intimpulliber7376 I'm also fairly sure you cannot "pass" anything onto an offspring that does not happen at the genetic level of the cells that actually contribute to reproduction (sperm and egg), the same way you cannot pass on a missing finger or a permanent limp developed after a car accident, or brain damage. The only way you can "pass" the consequences of a drug habit directly onto your child is if you get high while pregnant, which Nobody is advocating for, I hope, especially not in this video, or if it somehow affects sperm production (I don't know if eggs could be damaged by this, you're born with all of them.)
Edit: for clarity, Epigenetics exists, and the phenomenon is often summarized as genetic changes triggered by environmental factors being passed onto daughter cells, but that just means the cells that divide from an affected one. It has nothing to do with gametes (sperm and eggs), which do not divide. Your particular epigenetic profile cannot be passed onto your children by any mechanism that I am aware of.
@@intimpulliber7376 the assertion that there are 'few people' with relevant health concerns that would skew the numbers is flat out false. The fact that it would be convenient doesn't make it true. Mental illness is actually underdiagnosed by many estimates. And it still doesn't answer my question of how you devine an average when brain function and neurotransmitter amounts vary significantly across the general population. I don't think you read the studies you're quoting, maybe just the headline.
oh god you made the joke!!
Psychedelics such as psilocybin mushrooms, have demonstrated great potential in supporting individuals dealing with mental health challenges.
I know, right! It's mind-blowing how psychedelic trips can be so individual and unique, even when people take the same amount at the same time.
Where can I source em?
Can he be On instgram?
Absolutely! It's incredible to see how psilocybin mushrooms and psychedelics have the potential to make a positive impact on mental health. They've shown promising results in treating depression and anxiety. It's exciting to think about the possibilities they hold for helping people.
Can he send to me in Ohio?
not even 5 minutes in but I can't help but admire a man who knows what will upset his tory masters so well that he writes a peer reviewed paper dunking on horse riding in favor of doing mdma
I think it was Labour
…..not that I would want to defend the Tories.
@@chriswalford4161
Yeah neo-liberals are all pretty much equally terrified of drugs.
@@chriswalford4161 rich people who didn't go to Eaton verses rich people who specifically went to Eaton
although riding a horse WHILE on MDMA sounds pretty amazing ngl
"We should do research and see if these recreational drugs can help people with depression."
"But what if they enjoy it and it makes them feel good?"
"That's literally the entire point."
Sounds kind of dystopian.
@@TheTb2364 Given the history of regulating narcotics is dominated by factory owners concerned about productivity… Couldn’t possibly be dystopian.
@@oldvlognewtricks why are they so concerned about it, their end game is having all machines and no humans either way...
oh, I know, they just want to make people miserable for their own entertainment
When you are like making 5000x on top of what people cost, does it even matter if the worker is 1% less productive, its even stupid, as happy people are probably more productive, not less.
I don't get it.
I though they liked money, but no, that doesn't make sense. Why would you want people to be less happy and feel bad and be unproductive.
It must be for religious bullshit reasons, or plain dumb discrimination. Making money is just an excuse for being actually real bad.
well yeah but life is suffering and they need to toughen up. you'll enjoy "life" once you're in paradise. /s
As a severely disabled M.E patient who has been horrifically mistreated by the medical industry since I was a child , I can firmly say hearing a professional finally say the words 'doctors don't like patients coming to them with solutions' was extremely vindicating. This has been my experience my entire life. Especially when you are a child or young person, doctors, as you say, will actively try and go against your opinions and flat out refuse to even consider certain tests just out of some stubborn superiority. The cult of personality around egotistical london doctors needs to go.
Its the same over here in America. I have to do my research first to get them to do their job right (as in not just ignoring everything I say) then lead them to the answer and pretend they came up with it.
I have found a doctor that is willing to listen to consider valid research she hasn't seen before while letting me know if I'm dead wrong and barking up the wrong tree. I highly appreciate both.
I remember being 19 and getting prescribed antidepressants by my family doctor, to which I mentioned that I was not a big fan of the idea.
Boy, oh boy, did he go on a rant about youngsters and arrogance and what have you.
me too last time i ever went i told her what was wrong asked for antibiotics as id caught a throat infection by sharing a smoke with my pal who had it already she told me i was wrong its a calcium buildup and refused!! I had to gargle tequila and quit smoking for a week to clear it up never trusted them since and done some research that proved me right not too as well.. Imo the majority do more harm than good
This is one of the most important UA-cam videos I've ever seen, also because it comes from a respectable, quack-resistant source
Agree
I'm not related to the medical field at all and I found it just as fascinating. We need more people who can take fight to ducktrine.
If you want to find out more about psychedelics, have a look at prof. Stanislav Grof's works. This is a psychiatrist who made hundreds of trials with LSD in the fifties and arranged them into an intriguing theory of mind.
@@tomasznasiowski5075 thank you! I'll check it out 😁
Being a quack is directly correlated to having an open mind
This is like that "wash your hands before delivering babies" all over again.
oh yeah, I've met so many doctors in my country that were more ignorant than me and it was suppose to be their jobs to know things. Very scary when your "expert" is dumber than you.
from "women don't have orgasm, all women are frigid" to "ah no, your hip is not dislocated, you are lieing that you can't walk, just put ice on it".... and then what stories I hear are much worse than what I've experienced, many elderly have died at home because the doctors didn't believe they were in pain and never did any real testing.
@@HisameArtwork Don't even get me started on personal experiences, those should remain dead and buried.
Ego shouldn't be allowed in the workplace, when your profession entails the welfare of others. Or like, I dunno, 0.1cc at most.
Ignaz Philipp Semmelweis is one of my heroes.
@@recklessroges Hopefully David doesn't end up the same way though...
@Shriadid back in the good old days of make britain great again, many doctors were opposed to germ theory - tiny organism you can't see that want to kill you - thus they didn't think it was important to wash their hands after every delivery or change their shoes after bringing horse crap from the street into the hospitals.
I've suffered from depression my whole life, I first had a "wait a second, I'm really depressed" moment when I was 16, but the symptoms had been there for a long time. By 18 I was dealing with suicidal ideation literally daily/hourly. The tiniest things would set it off and my first thought would immediately be "if you killed yourself you wouldn't have to deal with this/feel like this". I went to see my GP when I was 19 and he couldn't care less, this was the first person I'd spoken to about it and he just gave me a questionnaire to fill out (which suggested I was "severely depressed") - I'm pretty sure he didn't believe the result because I wasn't crying or sad or anything, I was just numb. All he said was "Do you want me to put you on anti-depressants?" with pretty much no elaboration beyond that. The idea of a drug that, in my mind at the time, would change my personality was terrifying so I asked if there was anything else, like therapy. He told me that the waiting was 6 months long but suggested that if I went and stood on the bridge down the road for a while until someone called the police or ambulance I could probably get moved to the top of the queue - this is not a joke, that is actually what he said. I ended up moving away before I got to see anyone and never bothered trying again because I thought it would be the same story.
I'm 28 now, 2 years ago I finally attempted suicide since I was going through a hard time and realised I'd been dealing with this for over 10 years and it had only gotten worse over time and it became overwhelming - a couple days after my failed attempt I went to my new GP - tried anti-depressants - 3 different ones over the course of a year and none of them helped - one even made it worse and gave me huge manic to depressive mood swings, the others just had no effect at all - I didn't even notice a difference coming off them. Tried some talking therapies too and it just didn't work for me.
So... as someone who has suffered from depression for over a decade and doesn't respond to traditional therapies, I've been wanting to try psilocybin or something similar if it could help since I first heard of the research on it - hell, the mushrooms literally grow down the road to me. But as someone who has never tried any drugs aside from alcohol and the anti-depressants I got prescribed (not together mind), the idea of using a psychedelic drug terrifies me, as does the idea of being caught with a class A drug and being convicted purely because I didn't want to feel like killing myself anymore. I just wish there were places around me where I could try that kind of thing and feel safe doing it.
I'm so sorry to hear what you've had to go through but it's sadly the norm for many ppl facing severe mh issues in the UK.
I've tried psilocybin recently for my own issues with depression and social anxiety, I would suggest going to a jurisdiction that not only allows it use but also where the therapy is performed by an experienced practitioner. The experience can be quite scary if you're totally on your own.
I hope things become better for you ❤️
Jeez m8 your life must be hell.
Have You tried 250mcg doses of vitamin D? I'm not suggesting it would help, I'm just interested coz it's a common practice to treat depression in nordic countries for like 40-50 years.
Very similar story here. 33 now. I had 2 comparatively good years 3 years ago for no particular reason - followed by 1 really bad one and now just being the "usual" amount of depressed.
No inspirational story here, sorry.
If anyone is looking for someone to test experimental treatments on, though...hit me up - I've tried everything else ;p
I hope you have the chance to see an actual psychiatrist (not a gp) with experienc in treating chronic depression. In my university hospital, you would probably already be eligible for electric convulsive therapy, which has really good outcomes as well.
But there are several classes of antidepressants, and also mood stabilizers and antipsychotics in lower doses can help as well. Ketamin is used more and more as well for clinical studies and in routine clinical care, and it seems to work really well too (though a psychiatric evaluation is important for ketamin, since it's contraindicated for certain mental illnesses).
Just wanted to put this out there so you know there are still lots of treatment options. These aren't even all the options. Also therapy can be immensely helpful, IF the therapist and treatment modality work for you. One of the most important indicators if therapy works is the client-therapist relationship. It usually takes a few tries for most people to find someone that is a fit. But also, therapy can be very difficult during depressive episodes, which is why other treatments are important too.
Take all this with a grain of salt, i'm a med student. I wish you all the best, and that you get can the help you need and deserve!
@@grmasdfII want to try D3 250mcg (10000iu) / day for a month? Effect should be present after 4-5 days and build up. Not medical advice of course, so take it at your own risk. A jar of d3 caps should cost around 10$.
I’ve met Professor Nutt a couple times after his lectures and he is incredible. As a doctor with a neuroscience interest, I find his research into psilocybin, his revised classification of drugs according to harm caused, etc. absolutely fascinating. Cannot wait to get stuck into this interview!
That feeling of (ahem) *ecstasy* when Dr Francis hearts your comment. _(Probably less dangerous than equasy)_
@@DoctorAzmain the serotonin release seems (anecdotally) equivalent. More research is required.
I did some research into psilocybin many years ago.
Up in the fields above Bakewell and Sheffield.
Followed by long and interesting walks through amazing scenery filled with the most beautiful trees and plants and rocks!
Extremely eloquent and charismatic fellow, to boot.
I don't think Nutt understands drug users. He's trying to market this sentia drink as an alternative to alcohol that doesn't get you drunk. I don't think he gets it that most problematic drinkers drink specifically to get drunk and wouldn't bother with something that can't get you drunk
If a single treatment can cure people, the pharma industry is going to lose a lot of money - similar to vasalgel vs hormonal contraceptives. The pharma industry lobbied alot to stop the original polymer technology for contraception to come to the market 20ys ago. We have to wonder of something similar is happening with psychedelic drugs that really cld help those suffering from depression, epilepsy etc.
for goodness sake don't let them know they're growing in the fields for free!
@@osirismother more than just cow fields as well mescaline cacti are abundant too :D
@@osirismother "Heavens! You *told* them about psilocybe mushrooms? You're going to put me in the poor house!"
Slight correction to your comment. A single dose does not cure Depression.
A single dose helps you greatly towards remission (A period where you don't experience the symptoms of the mental disorder); but after a while the disease slowly but surely starts to come back.
Wrong, it's mostly the alcohol and tobacco industry/lobby.
The point about doctors not liking when patients bring a solution to them is spot on. A few years ago I knew my anxiety was spiralling dangerously again and that I needed something like sertraline asap. First GP practically kicked me out the door and left me in tears. Thankfully another (much older, interestingly) gp saw me the next day and gave me the prescription I knew I needed, which worked brilliantly.
Some doctors like to feel like gatekeepers.
Worse, some other doctors are paid to be gatekeepers!
Appreciate you shining a spotlight on this courageous man. Dr. Nutt is a hero to a growing number of folks.
Yet somehow nobody remembering Carlos Castaneda, like scientists using yet another censorship - we took many things from there, but now it is ours, scientific, and we starting from scratch again.
In 1992 I bought a book called Technological Risk by H.W. Lewis in a bookshop in Jackson Hole. It's framed my thoughts on risk ever since. Risk is everywhere - if I ride my bike there is a higher risk of dying in a collision but it will reduce my risk of heart disease. Pick and choose your risks and accept them.
Unless you have shareholders.
Then you're obligated to externalize.
I hope that one of the few benefits of covid might be that it has increased public awareness/ understanding of relative and absolute risk. The news media doesn't help with this because they almost always quote research in terms of relative risk. It's much more headline grabbing to say something triples your chance of some condition, vs saying that it increases from 0.0000003% to 0.0000009%
@@92Pyromaniac do you think the public has though? My view is definitely that risk calibration has become worse through thr covid period.
Bikes save money and the environment. If just for health tho, could always do yoga.
@@92Pyromaniac It's made it much worse. Large amounts of people are positively terrified of catching a disease that has perhaps about a 0.005% chance of killing them while they routinely engage in activities that are far more dangerous, such as horse riding, or skateboarding, etc.
"the brain is an instrument for focusing the mind" As a person who has taken psychedelics before, I'd always had this general feeling after a trip, but prof Nutt discussing Aldous Huxley put it beautifully into words. Great interview!
The mind is an emergent property of the brain.
@@DrSpooglemon the mind is an emergent property of the body
@@wabznasm9660 The brain is part of the body so, yeah.
This is a very Buddhist sentiment.
@@DrSpooglemon ye but the mind exists in animals without brains,as long as there is DNA the mind is there
As someone who has never taken any drugs, never drank alcohol or coffee even, I think it's a huge mistake that many countries criminalize the people who take them.
As someone who has taken most of them, I agree. From many angles.
But I wouldn't call it a mistake, since I'm sure _they_ profit off it quite a lot.
Especially in America, with the prevalence of the prison-industrial complex. Criminalizing drugs is a shortcut to modern day legal slavery.
And let's not forget, the biggest drug dealers in the world are the CIA.
@@durerewhat're the CIA doing? How can they get away with that, that's terrifying
@@jessica5470 they dumped a shitload of coke on the streets ( not literally )
@@jessica5470
It seems that the CIA strategy for defeating an enemy drug cartel is to outperform them in the market. Same goes for everything else horrible.
There are still many WWII vets who complain about the current cynicism towards our country and government and they say we're not "patriots". It's the saddest thing ever because they turn a blind eye to the faults of their own out of loyalty, and cannot understand why this is a problem.
It's a gross violation of personal autonomy to make it illegal to do something to your own body.
such a great conversation. I still can't fathom how those substances are still disregarded as medicine and heroin or all those derivates like codeine are being used. I have a friend that rather smokes weed illegally instead of getting addicted to codeine for his chronic pain. I hope you will continue this conversation sooner rather than later ❤
I've been on antidepressants and I've also done a lot of psychedelics at certain times in my life. One type of antidepressant made my depression worse and another type made me angry all the time. Psychedelics helped me look at my situation and my outlook in a constructive and healthy way and helped me identify the things I hated about my life and my self, which helped me to make changes that have helped me to kick depression long term. Psychedelics probably aren't always safe for everyone at any time, but they can really help people when used properly, and I've certainly done more harm to myself with cigarettes and done more stupid things while drinking than I've ever done with psychedelics.
I have been on two antidepressants and my single trip on lsd did more to help me than either of them.
Same here. Sadly I can't say anything good with my experience with more than a dozen of antidepressants, I wasted more than a decade popping pills and sometimes getting worse because of their side effects. With psychedelics I confronted many of my fears and the experiences gave me tools to handle my problems. Even then, I would advice anyone to be cautious and get informed before attempting to try them, they are powerful substances. If they were legal we'd not have this issue, a professional would be responsible for assessing your eligibility to this type of therapy beforehand.
I'm so darn sensitive to many drugs (legal and other), I had to do it the hard way--it's called 'know thyself' in truly obnoxious detail, and accept it for what you are. Then you can move on to finding and fixing problems. (I was also on an SSRI, which worked very well for me.)
You don't NEED psychedelics to do this, is my point. Some might, but let's not do what the marijuana folks did and claim them for miracle drugs for all.
@@RICDirector Oh absolutely, I used it recreationally and it happened to help me personally, in an ideal world psychiatrist would be able to administer psychedelics where they thought might be helpful with proper medical supervision, I definitely am not endorsing self medication
I can relate to this sentiment. I was heavily addicted to self harm in my teens and it to this date is the only addiction I've ever had to face. At the peak of this time in my life I was on upwards of 8 medications a day, including but not limited to a strong antianxiety medication 3 times a day. Essentially these meds were only good to shut me down. I would sleep for nearly 20 hours a day only waking up to eat and take that med again. When I turned 18 I decided I was going to move out and I didn't have any money so I decided to wean myself off of my meds to try and learn to deal with it on my own. I have never ever felt as sick as when I came off antidepressant/anxiety. It's not a feeling I would ever wish on anyone. I say all this to illustrate that the many antidepressants/anxiety that I've tried in my life never gave me a different perspective. They just staved off every part of me, the good and the bad, effectively making me a shell. Psychedelics helped me garner a new perspective and I believe sped up my maturity a bit. Additionally, and this is purely anecdotal, psychedelics made me feel like a kid again. They helped spark my childhood interests in anatomy and animals back up, and I'm studying to become a veterinarian and now married instead of being measured for an appropriately sized coffin.
I do feel the need to add some context. Psychedelics "fracture" a part of the brain called the default mode network. The default mode network is responsible for self identity (very simply put), and in people like me with chronic depression and anxiety, my default mode network is cranked to an 11 at all times. Psychedelics actively work to reduce the amount of activity in the default mode network, which can be really harmful for people with healthy brains. Psychotic breaks and loss of self identity can occur when normally active default mode networks are influenced by psychedelics so caution should always be taken. Here's an article written by much more articulate, credible, and knowledgeable people than myself. Just some food for thought.
psychedelicstoday.com/2020/02/04/psychedelics-and-the-default-mode-network/#:~:text=Modern%20neuroscience%20has%20demonstrated%20that%20psychedelics%20such%20as,the%20most%20enduring%20therapeutic%20effects%20of%20psychedelic%20substances.
The resistance to patient suggestions is something I've experienced firsthand. First a bit of context, I was in grade 7, I was fascinated with physics and anatomy, my teachers allowed me to prepare lessons and teach the class about topics they had selected. I had to submit a lesson plan first and I only had ten to fifteen minutes to explain a topic. My teachers knew that I had at least a basic understanding of the things about which I was speaking.
However, when I went to the school nurse with a pain in my lower right side and fever; I told her that I thought it was my appendix. The nurse became offended that I might know "more" than her. She argued with me and gave me aspirin, it got worse, she sent me back to class and the teacher believed me so he sent me back to the nurse. Eventually, my mom was called and she drove me to the hospital.
Knowing that I could be wrong, I followed the doctors process of elimination to see if it were something else or whether I might respond better to antibiotics without needing an appendectomy. Whenever I suggested that I needed my appendix removed, they became offended. Eventually, I became so bad that I could barely walk, so I was taken in for operation. It was only then that I was taken seriously. It turned out that I had been right and because my appendix nearly exploded on the operating table.
as frustrated as it made me to read, thank you for sharing the story, Joseph. It is quite sad and frankly life-threatening how many professionals let their ego get in the way of their line of work, and while I haven’t experienced anything like what you described, I can say that I have had teachers in my past who felt threatened somehow by my presence. And their reactions to my being in the classroom affect me to this day
@@noahsabadish3812 Luckily times have changed and things are getting better. I mean prior to 1992, blood was rarely screened for hepatitis C. A number of people became infected as a result. However, things are getting better by leaps and bounds, maybe not all at once nor in the ways that are most visible and impact us the most directly, but the good is there.
@@noahsabadish3812 Is it their ego, or is it the countless of times that people come in, think they know everything and are completely wrong? For every one person who gets it right, how many others were there? I really think it's completely different from teachers who aren't able to handle gifted students.
@@DavidMulderOne School Nurses are about 55% small name big ego types today and suspect with every generation back this was even worse, as more of them where trained by conservative religious orders or those trained by them and the job had just as much to do with authority (and covering up for those in it) as it did with actually care.
But as you say I think people need too seriously consider that patients are flawed too, and "well- I'm a doctor" is sometimes just as legitimate a response. The average patient has the ability to know a lot more about medicine than 100 years ago, but that doesn't mean they do so much as it means they think they do.
@@DavidMulderOnebrilliant point.
"Doctors don't like patients coming to them with solutions."
My general practitioner, despite a six year graph line showing me to be chronically low on Vitamin D, was concerned that I was using 10,000 IUs per day (after raising intake from the previous year). I find that to be unfortunate, as not only is there a massive amount of data showing this to be a regular dose but also that, a few days later, for the first time in my life my tests came back showing healthy Vitamin D levels.
On the other hand, most people have done no research or have put minimal thought into their self-diagnoses, let alone make efforts to falsify, and so I can't fault doctors for losing their curiosity for what the next patient's opinion will be.
Too many doctors look at themselves as gods who are dispensing their knowledge to lesser beings. Yes, there are lots of folks out there who are getting their medical advice from Facebook, but some of us know how to research symptoms. Twice I've had doctors literally roll their eyes at my suggestions, then had to admit I'm correct.
I used to get anxiety attacks. At the same time, I decided to try LSD recreationally. Before I put any drug in my body I want to know what it will do and what are the risks. So, I learned of Professors Nutt's research and other research on MAPS. This is a longer story but the tl;dr is after a huge anxiety attack on LSD I subsequently self medicated in the weeks after. This was in 2017. I have never had anxiety attack since
Curious, I had a similar experience. I used to get panic attacks since I was a child, then as an adult I had one while I was on LSD but somehow I managed to calm down telling to myself "this will pass" and focusing on breathing. Afterwards, I never had another panic attack ever again, it's like a switch was deactivated inside my mind.
Same here. Massive anxiety and strong effects while on LSD but life changing permanent relief afterwards
This is like the second time ever im commenting under a UA-cam video. This was amazing. I just feel pure gratitude and appreciation for this kind of work.
One of my family members has been going through severe depression for the last 5+ years and it's been incredibly difficult for her to deal with. She's tried absolutely everything in the book and nothing seemed to help her until she decided to try an MDMA/psychedelics treatment. At first, they started with micro-dosing and it seemed to help, but when things turned south, her consultant decided to do a session with a full dose. Ever since that treatment last month she's been completely transformed and has drastically changed for the better. I don't know how long the effect will last on her but I'm glad she decided to try this route. It has been the best decision for her and for the rest of the family who's been taking care of her during this whole ordeal. Even one of her doctors has been very impressed with her dramatic improvement and is now looking into this sort of treatment for some patients.
But how did she get access to it? I don't understand why some people are being given special access while most people are told that it's not legal to prescribe.
FYI repeated microdosing of MDMA is a terrible idea, it leads to a complete depletion of serotonin in the brain with none of the upsides, if you're going to be taking MDMA space out your doses to allow your brain to recover, and please don't do repeated doses, including microdoses
yep, "micro doses" tend to get larger and larger until your noggin is completely fried@@emiloguechoons9030
Buy it yourself donut or go canada 🤷@@dfwdfw9544
The part about the psychedelics working as a reset of the brain, with a subsequent break of the vicious cycles, makes me think of the "Have you tried turning it off and on again" trope before he actually mentioned it, and that made it really eye-opening.
As a side, I do believe in a lot of fields it is important to take placebo effect into account, because for problems with a physical nature, like infections etc, having an effective treatment is definitely important. But when it comes to psychology and psychiatry, I think placebos are as good as real treatments, as in the end in that case the effects that a person feels are the only things that matter.
A placebo in psychedelics would be very difficult unless micro dosing. You can not give a placebo in place of a full dosing session. The effects are just too deep and in no way could be replicated by placebo effect
Although I can appreciate the real benefits of placebos as successful treatment, I find the argument that they are sufficient if “they work” a bit lazy.
Anecdotally, I tried a series of micro dosed psilocybin that my friends payed a bunch of money for. Got nothing from it, though I could feel it had some minor effects. Like homeopathy, I imagine the industry we will now build on this placebo practice. (And us skeptics will be totally left out 🙁)
Not to take away from the really great science this great interview explored. Loved it.
@@ariw9405 microdosing is already a placebo lol
Huh, so that's what happened...I mean, I died to reset but I came back more "me" than I left. I would *not* recommend however as my "exploration" was involuntary...
As someone with fibromyalgia who is having to do her own research on things like medical cannabis, I found this interview really interesting and informative. It is beyond frustrating how things like cigarettes stayed legal and research into drugs with huge potential health benefits got quashed. I’m in the States and wasn’t familiar with Professor Nutt, but now I’m gonna be looking up his stuff.
@@mrjagriff what the hell is wrong with you?
@@mrjagriff It's amazing that you can be so confident while being so objectively wrong. Very bold of you to argue against the objective findings of the entire field of psychiatry
@@mrjagriff Fibro does not take money away from other illnesses, and it is a verified illness. It can be diagnosed with multiple brain scans: how you react to caused pain vs what your normal level is has a distinctive signature compared to those who do not have Fibromyalgia. Science has marched on, keep up or shut it.
I suffer with fibromyalgia. I am on various drugs. The only thing that really helps is vaping cannabis. I am in the UK and when I mention cannabis use to doctors it falls on deaf ears. A profession that has historically over prescribed antibiotics and a litany of addictive antidepressants. The movie "Reefer Madness " must still be shown in University. Professor Nutt is correct when he highlights the resistance by doctors to patients presenting solutions. Something we with fibromyalgia have no choice but to do
@@Call-me-Al the thing is though... British GPs won't consult a neurologist before diagnosing Fibro...
I went to my local GP, presenting with widespread pain and my GP said "that's fibromyalgia"... 12 months later it turned out I had somatic symptom disorder, as well as a blunted dopamine system and a bloody slipped disc. So no wonder I was in pain all the bloody time. And it was nothing to do with fibro.
This isn't an uncommon experience of-late, either. Fibro is a disease that should be diagnosed by omission of other disorders. Not proactively diagnosed, due to the massive overlap it can have with otherwise treatable diseases. Instead, GPs want to get people out the office as quick as possible.
Rohin, thanks for such a fantastic video. I'll be honest and admit I've been guilty of having a bit of a blinkered view regarding the use of, what have been regarded as illicit drugs, in a medical setting. This has certainly helped remove those blinkers. Thanks again, I'm now off to binge on Prof. Nutt's podcast and other works.
The Nutt case and the Nutt sack lol. Great sense of humour.
When he said Nutt Sack, I busted out laughing.
also the video is posted in November… no nut november… im almost. certain thats intentional
Those headlines weren't humour.
They were abuse, disguised as humour.
@@AndrewBlucher If you see it as humour, it takes the power away from the abusers.
(Un)fortunate nominative determinism.
My dad, being one of those hippie types, is often raving on and on about how shrooms and weed are a cure all, but seeing a very reasonable, level headed, and skeptical person such as yourself cover it gives me much more confidence in the positive effects of this as a treatment to be investigated.
There's a great feeling of deep frustration with the governments of the world being so short sighted. All this potential good has been wiped off of the face of the planet because of a government wanting to remain in control to do what they wanted in regards to the attempt to shape the public perception of Vietnam War. Maybe one day we'll see more money being put into all this, more research being done, but personally I can't see any of that happening in the UK for at least another couple of decades.
Brilliant interview, I will most definitely be linking it to my dad
ur dad is right mate i was like you i hope one day you see the truth..
Partially to protect wood and cotton industry in weeds case but the rest they were mostly all banned cos the 60s military tests totally undid soldiers conditioning and broken willpower and gave their free will back! Totally the opposite effect they expected lol.. Thout it would cause super obedience and they could spike an enemy then just take over.. They found out it fixed a soldier whos had advanced conditioning to run into gunfire so it would surely undo the training and conditioning the average person goes through.. The truth may just set us free ✌❤
@@benayers8622 People like you are the reason most of society looks down on drug users.
We're getting closer in California to psychedelic legalization, and of course cannabis is legal, but medical use is pretty haphazard. For me personally, psychedelics have played a huge role in my mental health and they should be made widely available for therapeutic use under proper supervision.
What's even the point then if it isn't for medicinal use?
@@Tommy50377 Giving adults the right to consumer whatever they like, considering it doesn't harm others. Especially drugs like Cannabis and Hallucinogens.
It also doesn't help that the federal laws make it excessively difficult for any agency that works across state lines (including any bank that is part of FDIC) to interact with the cannabis industry, even if it's legal in the state where they are dispensing.
@@Tommy50377 it's perfectly reasonable for people to be allowed to take pleasure inducing chemicals. Alcohol legalisation is effectively a done deal, it's never going away. To have that, which is actually quite dangerous, but much safer chemicals being illegal is absurd.
@@Tommy50377 what's the point in alcohol, caffeine and other legal substances if not for medical use? and even recreational use of cannabis for example has some benefits, because it's a great stress reliever and helps with sleep. And psychedelics for recreational can simply be great fun. it can be a great experience.
Rohin, that was fantastic.
I sincerely hope there is a "next time" with you and the prof.
VERY MUCH SAME
It is refreshing to see someone intelligent with an objective curious mind that is not afraid to challenge what is deemed acceptable. Why does real objectivity without prejudice seem to be such a rare thing? As someone who has struggled with depression and anxiety for most of my life, and is now on disability benefits it saddens me so much that research like this is suppressed and even ridiculed. SSRI's only gave me ridiculous side effects and actually made me worse because of it. When mentioning that 15 of 20 subjects relapsed into depression I think it is a fundamental flaw to treat depression as the core condition when in fact it may well be a symptom of something else. In my case I was diagnosed with autism at the age of 39, and the unrealistic expectations of living life as an undiagnosed autistic was the underlying cause for my depression and suicidal tendencies. If a single session isn't always the fix, maybe some more complex cases needs peeling back the onion layers of things that have gone wrong in the mind.
BIt of thread necro but I'm in a similar situation. I'm not diagnosed but I'm in the queue, and the whole process of discovering that I might be autistic felt very liberating in a way, I realised all these things about myself that I've been suppressing for years to fit what people decided I should be. Even if I'm not autistic, and it's just something else similar (ADHD or something maybe) it almost doesn't matter, because since realising what I was suppressing and no longer suppressing it I am so so much happier. Depression doesn't just happen, it's caused by external factors, and a lot of the time I think those are societal. But I suppose it's a lot easier to just pump someone with SSRIs than fix a society that forces people to conform to expectations of how someone should act / live.
@@biscuit715 No matter what words end up on the paper if the process has helped you that is what really matters. Glad to hear that you feel better!
the idea of brains locking into specific habits, whether in ocd, anxiety or alcoholism is also very much the case with self harm, and I feel is the reason it's often experienced as an 'addiction', even though there is no chemical withdrawal.
Fixed action patterns have no notion of "good" vs "bad"; sustainability is invisible to the brain when it learns patterns.
@BAAC CAAB they do have notions of good and bad. People engage in addictive behaviours because they give a dopaminergic release which is "good" as it appears to the brain however that is only momentarily good
Psychedelics are great for knocking you out of bad habits. It is such a wholesome experience.
Same for eating disorders, especially anorexia.
@@Scapestoat It can be but can also be traumatizing in the case of a bad trip. Not saying that's a reason to not look into it as an option but it's definitely not a miracle drug. My experiences have generally not seen me have any revelations or fixed my brain at all but it's a nice break from it so. Everyone's brain is different.
I had the privelage of meeting with Prof Nutt at the Clinical Cannabis Conference at the Linder Auditorium years ago
Absolute legend and took the tyrants head on!
I read the papers from David Nutt's group about treatment of depression with psilocybin and then decided to try following their protocol myself. This was the smartest decision of my life. The effects were deeply profoundly positive. The truly criminal thing, is that this treatment has been kept from people for so long.
BTW, I'm totally using that term "Nutt sack" from now on :)
I know this is old, but I can't seem to find their papers on depression. Do you have the title of the papers you read?
@RyanHellyer I'm trying to find this paper myself. Would you mind sharing where you got access to it?
Pls share, what is the protocol they used?
The part about how psychedelics might be allowing you to see your brain working, the process of your brain interpreting and constructing a perception of the world is absolutely mind-blowing to me. I came to that exact conclusion once in the middle of an LSD experience. I had this sense that I was in a sort of "base" world that is always superposed with ours, but that we can't access. The visuals, the feelings in my body, the way I was hearing sounds, even the way I was hearing myself talk in my brain.
It all had this sense of recursion to it, it felt like my regular world was somewhere in that recursive process, and I was just allowed to witness the whole thing. The more I thought about it the more I realized, well, the world is just perception, what I'm thinking of as some sort of truth about the universe is actually a truth about my brain, I'm observing my raw brain processes. The moment I had that thought I had this incredible wave of euphoria and I couldn't stop laughing, it felt like I had just seen my own brain naked, I must've looked absolutely insane at that moment.
The interesting thing is, if you read a lot of people's experiences, they might interpret things differently or use different words, but you can tell it all points to a similar "thing". It's fascinating.
Fascinated by the discussion of the slow-wave sleep-promoting antagonist at around 30 minutes in. Has this ever been revisited? I have narcolepsy and one of the effects is almost complete loss of slow-wave sleep- it’s almost all REM. Now, certain medications do promote deep sleep (started one a few months ago and my condition’s improved dramatically), but they have a litany of other side-effects and it’s not actually known what the mechanism is behind their function. I’m not too hopeful here, considering the theme of the video and the fact that it’s a pretty uncommon disorder, but if the only objection to this antagonist was perceived uselessness, is there a chance neurology researchers could look into it again?
ETA: Also, to comment on the evolutionary angle regarding these receptors, that totally makes sense of why “sleep on it and think it over in the morning” is the best advice for dealing with a difficult conundrum!
As well as 'never make a major decision on an empty stomach'.....
Given the more recent interest in sleep promotion for the general population (as well as to help with numerous conditions), it strikes me that research into medications that actually improve sleep quality would be much more likely to take off now than when it was first rejected… and while narcolepsy might be uncommon, it potentially has a drastically negative effect on people who suffer with it, so research is surely important! (I don’t have narcolepsy, but I do take modafinil on prescription as part of my treatment for ADHD and related sleep issues)
@@EmmaVB82 Thank you for your reply! I hope that will be the case... the rarity is one thing, but there's a lot more work to do in communicating that it really IS debilitating and not just a weird quirky disorder. I've heard narcolepsy is much more common in Japan (something like 1 in 600 vs. 1 in 2000 in the US), so I've been curious since then as to whether more research is being done over there and what it would take for potential treatment options to make it over to the States if so. Or maybe ADHD will be the bridge! There's so much overlap between ADHD and narcolepsy, as someone with both I wish the ADHD community would talk about it more? Again, I get that it's not as common, but you never know if just bringing it up might spark a realization for some people.
Anyway, thanks again for the solidarity! Best wishes to ya, hang in there. 😤
You know how sometimes you come across these people that can just speak with this immense sense of passion and enthusiasm? That's the vibe I get from David Nutt in this video.
Absolute pleasure to listen to! i felt like i was only 10 minutes in when it was over.
Already listened to the full interview on Nebula! Thanks for sharing this with us; it's a very important discussion to have
What an absolutely FANTASTIC interview. You're as great an interviewer as you are an educator and science communicator. True passion at work. Thank you for all the work you do!
Such an eye-opening discussion! This was well worth the time to watch
As a pharmacist, this is a fascinating watch. Professor Nutt is bloody brilliant.
Who need psychedelic when you can just sit back and enjoy this mind blowing interview?!! Please do consider make this a Trilogy! People will no doubt going absolutely Nutts on it! Lastly, you knew you got a long opening when all the ceiling burned out halfway through! 👏👏👏👏👏
Thank you, Rohin. I cannot tell you how deeply I feel about shifting the narrative in society when it comes to drugs, drug policy, and all of the terrible falsehoods that have come to rule today. Shifting away from my initial pursuit of engineering, I am now in undergrad (Bachelor's) pursuing a degree in Neuroscience; I hope to then pursue a PhD in either Psychopharmacology, Behavioral Pharmacology, or Neuropharmacology. It truly, truly breaks my heart to think about all of the harms the war on drugs has caused to people directly through unjust sentences, racial sentencing disparities, and all of the pain it has caused families as a result. Apart from the societal effects, it hurts me as an academic knowing how much precious time and momentum has been lost regarding research in the field of psychopharmacology; it hurts knowing that medicine is currently in the dark with regards to the potential pharmacological gems just waiting to be discovered. Please continue to discuss these types of topics on your channel in the future-it is truly valuable.
There are no "good" or "bad" drugs; there are no "hard" or "soft" drugs; there are no "safe" or "dangerous" drugs.
“All things are poison and nothing is without poison; only the dose makes a thing not a poison." - Paracelsus
From across the pond, with love,
Kaleb Lovingier
Sounds like education is your drug of choice :) Brain fizz overdoses are FUN! :)
I did a series of ketamine treatments for depression recently and had amazing results. Hope it becomes more popular! Could help a lot of people
K is a downer, correct?
From what I can tell, people sort themselves into 2 groups when it comes to depression relief:
Those who want to feel less
Those who want to do more
So, would you put yourself in the 1st category?
Because downers would make me feel worse.
@@DarkMoonDroid Ketamine isn't quite a downer as it does a lot, but from my understanding it promotes serotonin production and inhibits serotonin reuptake which is great for depression treatment. The drug can actually be pretty stimulating at certain doses according to others and is a dissociative at higher doses.
@@DarkMoonDroid Hi Jennifer, you aren’t really understanding what ketamine is. It’s a psychedelic and works like the ones described in the video. I definitely wouldn’t call myself a person who just ‘doesn’t want to feel’ my depression. I work really hard to find treatments that help me through it.
The first time I heard of ketamine was in a meme about Yoda being addicted to ketamine and being crazy and dangerous.
@@nastialover180 you're right, but I just wanted to point out that technically ketamine is not a psychedelic, it's a hallucinogen of the dissociative class. It has very different effects to psychedelics and has a worse safety profile, particularly for long term users mainly due to urinary system toxicity.
*Doors of Perception* is a must-read for anyone interested in the history of studying psychedelics or who knows what soma is.
The famous music band Doors got their name from this book, apparently.
pharma companies also hold a huge barrier of entry with regards to the manufacture anti depressants. It makes perfect business sense for them to try and maintain this by making more easily accessible alternatives demonized, harder to obtain, and punishable by law.
Thanks for promoting the outstanding work of this man and his team, everyone needs to be informed about such an important topic.
0:14:24 This.
I'm on Chemo and taking Ondansetron for nausea. As you prolly know, it suppresses the Serotonin cycle because that is the chemical used to signal the brain to vomit.
Side-effect: 😞
I cannot take an SSRI under these circumstances and I wouldn't want to anyway because the first/last time I took one, I lost all motivation to make my life better and after I stopped taking it I was furious with myself for losing 2 years of my life.
So, I am going to ask a Psychiatrist if I can take a DRI, off label. Low dose so I don't become a raging lunatic, but working with a Dr. to find the sweet spot.
I fully anticipate that this behavior will earn me - as it has many times since I ask Doctors to try things that sound like they might work for me and I tell them when things don't work - the wonderful label of; "Drug Seeker". I expect to be shamed and stonewalled. And I don't expect to get any real relief.
...Unless someone can somehow manage to legalize microdosing of certain hallucinogens before I finally die of this shit...
I wish I had the energy to join someone's crusade for all this, but alas.
It's wonderful and sad reading all those personal stories here. Thank you for sharing, Jennifer.
Don't tell them, do your research, and do it if you like
As a psychology student I find this terribly fascinating, fingers crossed for a green light to this type of research!
Thank you very much for this interview Rohan. I will look forward to watching the whole video with Professor Nutt.
Awesome conversation and video. Thank you. 💯👍
One of the most interesting things ever heard. It makes absolutely sense to me (software engineer) that to solve some kind of bugs in a process is necessary a reboot, this kind of research must proceed. You can really save people years of desperation
Hugely important conversation and a great interview. I know so many people this could help and only hope that the barriers can be overcome to continue testing and make these therapies available to more people.
It's amazing for me to see things like this because when I was younger I was a heroin addict for around 5 years. Did time, went to programs, all the usual. I was so fed up one night and my brother had access to dimethyltryptamine and we thought what's the worst that can happen? after THE MOST INTENCE trip of my life I didn't wanna use. For a week, a month, a year. Here I am 10 years sober from that life changing experience. Unfortunately DMT is a schedule 1 drug with "No Medical Use" smh....
Thank you Rohin for increasing our exposure to genuine experts in their respective fields. This sort of honest and informed discussion is I think, sadly, rare in today's corporate "shock jock" media. Something's wrong these days, and you're helping to make it better, in my view. 10/10
This had me glued to my seat for the whole thing. Such an interesting and important conversation. Thank you!
Excellent excellent to have got this interview and published it - thanks.
You’re doing great work with this channel - thank you 🙏
Excellent interview. I did my graduate work at Hopkins (totally unrelated to neuroscience), and I remember being really surprised and impressed when I heard about all the psychedelics work going on there and the promising results they seem to show. This video feels especially timely in that recently (in the last few weeks I think) Hopkins got the first NIH grant to study psychedelics in 50 years. Even keeping Prof. Nutt's pessimism on regulatory revulsion and inertia regarding psychedelics research in mind, I still think it is good to see progress being made, at least here in the US. Seems like an NIH grant is a pretty important step forward.
I've not made it to the interview part but been waiting for this one since you announced it. I've always found Dr. Nutt's work fascinating and an area where I wish there was more research in in general.
Thank you so much for the interview. It is high time for our society to raise and reorganize this problem.
49:44 There’s a whole branch of depression that I think that’s being missed, and that’s habitual anger. I hadn’t thought of depression as a habitual thing until now - but I have been certain that anger can be habitual for a long time: the triggering situation; the limbic system in action; the “reward” of chemical release in the brain. This has been very interesting.
Great interview. Just listened to Peter Attia's podcast earlier today where Prof Nutt was the guest and was blown away. And then this pops up in YT suggestions 😀 I feel like I've just found another hero in the medical field that I never knew existed until today. Such insight and integrity. I hope the research can be made far more approachable soon and possibly put into practice not long after.
THIS WAS THE BEST TIMING EVER. I have a paper on this subject due this Sunday.
THANK YOU FOR UPLOADING
This was very interesting. It's just two men chatting about drugs and the medical industry, with a few extra long words tossed in; but all-in-all a great conversation with new knowledge I can carry proudly into intellectual conversations of my own. Thank you Dr. Nutt
This was amazing, I could have listened for another two hours!!! If Professor Nutt would consider another interview with you, that would be amazing!
We all need a little bit of Medlife Crisis in our lives every now and then
More than less, please 🙂
I love that you left in the little praise from Professor Dunn at the end. This was truly a fantastic interview and I have enjoyed every second of it. The praise is very well deserved. I wish you had more time with him and I hope you will have another opportunity to interview him. I highly recommend this video to anyone interested in science and history.
Thank you for this. I hope you two do this again, I get the impression you could talk for hours, and I'd bet there's a lot of people out there who find it just as fascinating. And it's important that respected professionals such as yourselves lend your credibility to the discussion. In the absence of research, misinformation is everywhere.
First thank you for this video. As a person who has struggled with depression for most of my life, been on escitalopram for nearly two decades and participated in years of therapy what Professor Nutt said at 49:15 and the section afterwards resonates with my experience. SSRIs mute the repetitive depressive thoughts, which has allowed my CBT to help we develop the ability to catch my negative self thinking thoughts and refocus using for example positive psychology interventions to recall and embrace thoughts that produce well-being. The problem is SSRIs can wain in effect, and cause frustrating side effects. It would be nice to have a single treatment that provides equal effect with less side effects.
dump the meds and get out in the fields!
@@osirismother NEVER good advice for someone on ANY medication. 'Dumping' meds can cause anything from withdrawal issues to suicide--tapering is vital, and knowing exactly how the med works for you equally so.
@@RICDirector have YOU ever had to be some doctors guinea pig as he puts you through all the drugs his medrep told him to hand out? I have and that is a much bigger roller coaster of suicide and self harm so i stick to what i say!
@@osirismother Been there, done that, but it was what my insurance wanted him to try before ok'ing the drug that I was on, that actually worked, would be paid for. BUT...that's not a good reason to tell someone to 'dump the drugs'--that's irresponsible and downright hazardous.
🍄🍄🍄🍄🍄🍄🍄🍄🍄🍄🍄🍄
utterly fascinating interview. Thank you for this cracking content!
That was a terrific interview - one of the best I've seen with Prof Nutt! Very deep discussions - and love his work too. Thx for sharing and watching from Vancouver, Canada...regards, Jules.
The only downside to the length of the video is that some may choose not to watch because of it. Truly amazing work.
True Dat !
Maybe some editing wizard could make a spiffy 2 minute trailer/teaser
to provoke more folks to bite off the whole hour ? B-)
We do a lot of ibogaine, ketamine, and mdma therapy here in South Africa
Is that sort of therapies readily available there?
Talking ecstasy in a calm setting in good company really helped me with my grief process after a traumatic loss. I tried to make it as safe as possible ( alarm to remind me to drink and go to the toilet , access to a bed to calm down , taking half a pill first to reduce possible adverse effect due to the xtc being unclean cause it was illegally obtained , watching multiple videos on what to expect etc ). I can’t start to imagine what taking psychedelics in a medical setting (with a therapist) could do ! ( if the police reads this Ofc I’m just imagining a story and didn’t take any drugs please don’t arrest me lol )
Truly grateful that we have people like you producing this type of content, and Professor Nutt who fight and challenge convention. My only hope is that this content reaches more people.
Thank you!
I loved this. I thought I was going to watch only 10 minutes but ended up watching the entire thing! Thank you for this! It was extremely fascinated and insightful!
"Antidepressants are a good treatment... To have an alternative strategy to treat depression is exciting" - As someone who has mostly recovered from depression, and who had to try several antidepressants to find one that helped much, I can't overemphasise how important this is. Antidepressants didn't just change how my life was, they saved it. There is no way I could have gone on like that for much longer, and although I think talking therapy was an important part of my treatment, it wasn't helping at all really when I was so severely depressed. I had trouble talking, so obviously its effectiveness is going to be limited in those circumstances. The antidepressants that I tried first had very little to no side effects. Obviously it is these, the ones with least side effects, that are tried first. People shouldn't worry about taking first-line antidepressants as much as they do I think. The ones that have helped me a lot though do have some pretty nasty side effects. Although I am, in some ways, a poster child for why antidepresssants can definitely be worth trying, it seems likely that psilocybin might well have been a much better treatment than what has been available, and my health in other ways would perhaps be much better if I could have got the same benefit from it.
It is also the case that lots and lots of people aren't helped significantly by any available treatment, so having other alternative treatments, even if they are not more effective on average, is hugely valuable, as they could well help a lot of people who aren;t being helped out the hell that is severe depression now. It seems likey that the treatments with the gratest potential to help people not already helped are the ones different from things we have now, so psilocybin absolutely seems worth exploring more. It is a crying shame it isn't made easier to research, and Prof. Nutt is a hero for the campaigning work to change this he has done.
Well the thing is that anti depressants have changed dramatically over the years. In the 70s they were used on severely depressed people where they had an effect on people. But when the term depression changed the studies didnt. Its shown that things like sertraline is only 10% better than placebo in moderate to high depression which is laughable for the billion dollar industry it is.
They can work as a start engine and the moment you feel a bit better you really have to work on yourself. we know that things like running have a greater anti depressant effect than the pills. If you think the pill will do all the work (which people do because of their name) youre not gonna see any positive effect from them.
Psychedlics is really no different. The mindset and what you do after is the key to all of it. There is nothing that will take away your depression. In my honest opinion, opiates saved my life and help me the exact same way that adderal and anti depressants help others.
Prof David Nutt is an absolute legend! I have followed his work previously and find the potential uses of psychedelics fascinating. Brilliant video and discussion, very enlightening. I don't think any of it will make its way to my patients (paediatrics) for a while though (understandably..). Hopefully with increased understanding of the brain and mind derived from these studides however we can help treat/prevent the current teenager mental health crisis that I see unfolding.
really wonderful interview, thank you! looking forward to Part 2!
Great audio, especially, but of course I like the video. It's just that some YTers have good video but terrible audio, so the quality stood out. I'm so happy that this was a longer video of yours. Thanks for presenting this.
Thank you so much for doing the subject I requested! ♥️
(Even if it wasn’t because I asked. lol)
Thank you for this! It is such a meaningful act to endorse the legitimacy of this research. Addiction and depression are amongst the most difficult and intractable illnesses with so much social impact. The ridiculous barriers to this therapy need to be clear to the public. Well done.
Fascinating interview, I hope you do another one with him!
Thank you both!
Dr Nutt really is a hero. Succinct and speaking truth. I'm immensely grateful we have such people to fight for both the NHS and for science.
After reading Michael Pollan’s book Change Your Mind, the history of how psychedelics became a schedule 1 drug, it’s so crazy to realize other countries followed suit. I don’t understand with all the research out now how it’s still illegal almost everywhere.
I'm a pharmacist and been following your channel for quite a long time and this is one of the best videos I've ever seen, ever. I've sent it to multiple friends now.
Well, it looks like Professor David Nutt is a new hero for me to look up to. Thank you so much for doing this interview!
This is an interesting one for me. I tried cannabis when I was 20ish and liked it at first but after the 4th time, I had a psychotic episode, which almost 20 years later now, is still (after the death of my dad) the worst thing I had ever experienced. It lasted a few weeks and I got short flashbacks for a few years still. Words can't describe how bad it was, I assume it was my subconscious trying to generate a vision of what "hell" could be like. I was lucky in the sense that I pulled through and managed to get a Ph.D. in Engineering and all aspects of my life are great. But some of my high-school friends were not so lucky. Two of them ended up in the psych-ward when after about a year or two of cannabis use something snapped in their mind. Both of them still have to live in a sheltered environment. A third and one of my best friends has been using cannabis for a decade now. He never had a psychosis but we all could observe how he went from a sharp, fun, and ambitious person to a dull shadow of what once was. It had a huge impact on his intelligence and his ability to focus. He does not live in a sheltered environment but he isn't even able to work anymore and he just collects government support. So this is not science of course, this is just anecdotal - but still, in my case, out of a handful of people, many had horrifying experiences. None of us had any signs of pre-existing psychological issues. That being said, I am in no way against drugs and psychedelics in general. I have no doubt that they have and could help many people. But I have the feeling, lately especially Cannabis has been handed the Superhero card for free a bit too often. I think both sides of the argument should calm down a bit and agree to do the science properly and then based on that establish the best possible therapy methods for the people who need it. Further, I am also in favour of legalizing drugs for recreational use, but here as well, knowledge is key. People should exactly understand what they are getting into and how big the chances are of something bad happening. And obviously set harsh punishments for "important people" (surgeons, pilots etc) to be clean. That framework given, they can sell LSD at the supermarket for all I care.
Are you sure cannabis was all they were ingesting?
I have a feeling people who fall into long term drug use, alcohol or cannabis are really unhappy with life, or are using it as a substitute to fill their empty lives.
It's a myth that everyone wants to run off and get a PhD. Not wanting to do that, or even having some lofty goal in life isn't a sign of some mental illness.
With due respect for your experience, my own is very different. I was at university in the 60s when not everyone used cannabis. Of the many people who did I never knew one who had any consequent problems, except for those who got involved with the police (who caused their life-changing problems!) Over the years since, I have known three people who had serious problems with alcohol, but I still know no one who has had health issues from cannabis (or for that matter, other recreational drugs.)
I suppose that's why I find your perjorative language uncomfortable. I've never favoured legalsing drugs, simply because I don't think the law should have anything to say about them. I've never wanted my pilot or surgeon to be clean of tea or coffee, or thought they should be subject to harsh punishment if they eat too many burgers.
It simply must have been spiked. This is why we need regulation.
That's the problem with anecdotes. I can respond with not just a few, but hundreds of counter-examples. People who have used cannabis their entire adult lives with not even a hint of mental illness. Or any other problems in their life. There are the ones who run their onw businesses. Several who went all the way to PhD while being users. The same goes for LSD etc.
The only way that someone could manage to go from sharp, fun, and ambitious to a dull shadow would be if they were literally so intoxicated all the time that they couldn't function, and realistically almost any drug will bring you down if you consume such quantities. It's pretty much nothing to do with cannabis specifically.
I also don't like the overhyping of cannabis.
I don't doubt your experience - THC, after 10 years of enjoyment, suddenly started giving me crippling anxiety even at low dose - sativas, hybrids, indicas, Canadian gov't sourced or homegrown, it's all the same result. Oh well, can't smoke it any more as much as I may miss it and love the smell (and growing it). We can't pretend to know precisely how the brain works let alone how that mystery works from person to person with cannabinoids. I'm surprised at how many in your social circle were so negatively affected by it, though. I can attest it can mess with some people's heads in a not-at-all enjoyable way.
I can say though certain mushrooms (namely "Golden Teacher" strain; I have unpleasant experiences with "Penis Envy" strain) and n,n-DMT, by contrast, have been the greatest thing to happen to ward off my endless fights with acute depression. Such a positive life change, you have no idea. Moving to Vancouver, I was so happy to see I can buy mushrooms in shops. They're in the grey zone cannabis was 4-5 years ago (you have to sign a disclaimer saying you are coping with depression, PTSD, etc and know the risks). It's absolutely wonderful. I really hope n,n-DMT gets to that level of acceptance that we can buy it in shops.
Gov't scheduling bureaucracy is founded in lobbying and popular stigma, not science or medicine.
If we're not careful, science can become the new blind faith. Thank you for featuring Professor Nutt to highlight the nuances and hidden interests in scientific discovery!
Blind faith is directly counter to science, however.
I've never seen you so humbled and full of admiration. I don't blame you either.
Prof Nutt is absolutely charming. He really beams with positive energy, and combined with his expertise he's a formidable force against ignorance and misinformation ❤
2 things I'd like to mention:
People and doctors are always looking for a 1 pill fix all thing while not actually looking at the real cause for many of the problems that people face that lead to all the mental health they have, mainly societal issues. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't look into our options, but let's keep it real, we have a big problem in our society with lots of trauma and lots of not knowing and not being educated to deal with that trauma. That's what we're really missing I believe
Another thing is the problem with comparing and saying that alcohol and tobacco are more harmful, hence we should be ok with less harmful drugs. I think that's a ridiculous proposition
>People and doctors are always looking for a 1 pill fix all thing while not actually looking at the real cause for many of the problems that people face
The exact opposite is the case. People and doctors are looking for grand stories and complicated solutions that take multiple steps and years of therapy even if a single chemical would do the job.
I feel I'm slipping more and more into a sort of agnostisistic view of the world the more I learn about the scientific world. Especially after starting my degree in Biology it's so immediately apparent how ignorant the IFL Science crowd is in how messy and politicized the "Scientific Method" really is. It's a noble cause but along the way so much is lost in paid for studies, bullshit academic publishing and the restrictions imposed by economy and policy. I really appreciate how you point out the crap that is out there from your position as I think the wider public is largely ignorant of a lot of what is behind the clickbaity newspaper articles and the real dynamics of scientific work. We should, and do, listen to experts seeking to inform us about their field, but we need to be more aware about what is and isn't published and why.
Wow, this was SUCH an interesting interview/video. I was fascinated all the way through. Thank you both for sharing all of this with us, it certainly gives a lot of perspective on the topic
I had a pleasure meeting Dr.Nutt at EPA and when he visited Toronto. Kudos for bringing him to your channel - he's amazing!
Even by the very high standards of Medlife Crisis, that was a great video.
Possibly the first time I've ever watched a UA-cam video over an hour long all the way through.
👏
That was extremely interesting, thanks. I'm sure this was an enormous amount of work, but he seems happy to continue talking and you seem happy to continue interviewing, more of these sessions would be wonderful if the stars aligned so you could do them.
Great work, thanks for putting the effort into doing this.
I really hope another interview will happen, he sounds like a very interesting man and even from just about an hour I already have a lot of respect for him