It's so bad, you have no idea. Save me, Marazhai. Marazhai save me. The dynamics are so bad that I'm insanely glad I don't care about bg3 anymore. Compared to RT, characters are written horribly poorly. Not that this is news to me though. It's like, the contrast is so strong it makes me sick. Why are dynamics so bad? Why do Larian give up dynamic of two villains? Why is Tav a victim and not a co-conspirator, and why do they make choice for player by adding a static "horror" animation on they face? I have no idea. But I recommend that anyone who loves good writing and is looking for a villain romance play Rogue Trader. Because it's so much better than that. And no owlcat didn't pay me to do it. I know some fans are excited about this update, but this seems like a spit in the face. At the release of the game, ascended astarion had a completely different tone and different facial expressions. They changed literally everything. By the way if this is an attempt at "domination" it's super cheap. Also the kneeling moment should have been a feature of the romance scene, not a permanent event. That's my opinion. I'm just glad to have discovered a character that is 2000 million times better written, without prejudice and imposed morals from the writers.
You said it better than I could. I've had a bad feeling that Larian was going to patch in content like this that makes it clear they intend for the Ascended Astarion romance to be a bad ending for Tav. I'm not surprised, but I am disappointed that they're going this route and not leaving it up to player interpretation.
Even if I don't mind the new animations of kisses with AAstarion, I understand and fully share your thoughts. AAstarion is not a well written character: it is a set of dissonant and inconsistent ideas based on the prejudices that the authors apparently have on the players and the character himself. The thing is very saddened because AAstarion would have a great potential, potential that seems to have been forgotten because for the authors the most important thing, apparently, it is "to treat badly" players for a choice that, according to them, should not be done but that they have given you the possibility to do. If I think of dialogues with AAstarion, (especially the one during the final party or in the epilogue in which he asks you what you want to do together) and to the last love scene with him, I find these kisses a bit exaggerated. Although bad and dominant, AAstarion has always shown some sweetness and predilection for the TAV because it is his "Consort" his "treasure". I like him to be dominant, I like that his kisses are a bit aggressive, but with these kisses it seems to be completely lost the meaning of being his consort, the person who makes him feel really complete, despite the enormous power he possesses (words to the party). And always as you say, the thing that I despise most in these new kisses is the terrified expression on TAV. My TAV is an accomplice of Astarion, he loves AAstarion and loves this dynamic of sub / dom: he is a dark urge, he likes violence... seeing him afraid by Astariion has no sense. And like you I'm slowly losing the desire to play Baldurs Gate, just because I start to notice and not to endure this sort of "judgment" in a game that boasts to give freedom of choice. Perhaps things in the future will change, the kisses have always modified ... but for the moment I don't feel completely happy and satisfied.
@@bex.92 My opinion: he should have been a completely different character, based on the first act and early access info. Then, as with Gale, they decided to rewrite him. Hence such odd moments, with the drastic changes being most noticeable in the third act. In AA's case, the third act literally cancels all your relationship progress in the second act. You get no reward, only punishment for your actions that you in theory did for his sake. Why add a path where you will only punish players? It's a mystery to me. The problem with kissing is that it degrades your character. Like I said, it's cheap domination. It could have been done completely differently to show Astarion's obsession, how Tav is important to him and how much he fears losing them/obsessed with them/etc. But they showed it completely differently. Add to that the phrases that again hint at bartering. And then asking for a kiss on the knees? There are no words for it. I don't think they're going to change anything. This update wasn't necessary at all. They should have added a kiss or hug in the epilogue instead, because AA is the only one that doesn't have that kind of action. It feels like the developer is trying hard to make you a cheated victim, and it's very annoying. Basically discourage evil romance and even discard the idea that your character can be evil. The only thing I liked was the fixing of the brain scene. I'd say the brain ending is the best option right now for AA romance.
I haven't played Rogue Trader. Most of what I've seen of Marazhai and his romance arc has come from your videos. It seems like his romance is very deliberate? That's not the word I want. It seems like, you know what you're consenting to. That Marazhai is honest and up front about it. If that makes sense. Am I wrong about that? Marazhai is unapologetically an evil villain, but the Dom/sub dynamic in his romance arc doesn't feel like it's there to demonstrate that he's evil, but because he enjoys it. (I don't know if I'm making any sense. I'm struggling hard at putting my thoughts into words today.)
It's unfortunate that it doesn't take into account if your own character is evil,it does not make sense for my psycho durge to be scared. While it does paint a picture for a "good" Tav ,it does not fit an evil character who he would be more secure with.
The worst part of these kisses is Tav/Durge's facial expression. Larian should not be forcing a negative facial expression during these kisses. It absolutely ruins any kind of immersion or roleplaying. Specially Durge! Durge loves pain, she'd love if Astarion bit her lip.
I will agree on the point that Tav should not automatically have a terror face, as some people are into that and would have a more sultry face. Making that choice for the player takes away from how we feel and places a feeling that we may not feel onto our character.
This isn't the first time this has happened. If you're playing as Durge, the narrator says at the end that you regret about death of the priestess Selune, which seems silly to me. Firstly, it's a decision for my character again. Secondly, after rejecting Bhaal, I chose to "stay evil" or something like that. So why regret?Larian is constantly giving your character feelings that maybe don't fit into your personal canon.
@@nyloth I can agree with that. On my previous run, at some point I was speaking to the emperor and the narrator implied that I was sad that I wasn't 'getting enough attention' from him, I was NOT feeling that in the slightest nor was my character at the time. 😅
@@nyloth My Durge didn't regret anything. Perhaps the priestess, but not for regret. She was for forced to choose: obedience or punishment. My Durge was surprised that Astarion himself was surprised because she let him sacrifice 7000 souls for his ascension.
I agree 😂 but only because in no feasible reality am I saying no to this man, let alone not WHOLLY anticipating what he..ascended or not--has planned for Tavs lucky lil ass. I am absolutely a simp and I feel zero shame for it 😂 He says kneel? And I am sitting there EAGERLY awaiting a whole damn di--
Another issue with patch 6 regarding AA is the new line "You're my favorite." Favorite what? Favorite spawn? It seems like they're trying to imply favorite spawn. But he doesn't have any other spawn that we know of so it makes 0 sense. Even if he did make spawn, they're people he doesn't know.
I didn't really put a lot of weight on it, because he may indeed have other consorts in the future. But in this situation it's really inappropriate because he doesn't have any "others" at the moment. It feels like the developer is trying to poke us in the nose with "look YOU are ONE of many, NOT special". For some reason they don't poke at Tav's mortality in case Astarion spawn. huh
I feel like these kisses were made to placate the crowd that hated how AA was treating Tav in the epilogue. They want him to be an abuser and that’s that. There can’t be an evil power couple, Tav/Durge can’t be into the dom/sub vibe, there can only be abuse. It’s a bit disgusting when you think about it.
I don't even think AA ever had a full blown dom/sub dynamic, they were just bits of fanservice. I think Larian realised that people like a dominant Astarion, but they don't understand the dynamics of such a relationship, at all... Some people in the fandom are even convinced that if a character is evil, they can't love or have strong feelings. So I'm not surprised.
@@AA-ph5dj That is the only way I will be enjoying Astarion from now on, I don`t even want to hear about patches etc from Larian anymore. They have an agenda and people like me are not the target audience.
@@fortheloveof306others have said elsewhere that Larian made a role playing game, but they don’t want us to role play this route. I agree with them. They want this to be a hard “bad ending” for all parties involved. What other romance is this controversial? I mean, you can romance Minthara as a male and have a decent relationship despite how her culture treats men. If the rules can be bent for her, why not for AA? Why can’t Larian let players have fun with their evil routes? (Let’s be honest, Larian completely shafted evil aligned campaigns on a whole.)
As an AA enjoyer the only thing i dislike is that our tav/durge looks "scared" which simply wouldn't be the case for most people who actually want to romance this man...idk I may be in the minority but I do like the new kisses, although if they can make Minthara more gentle and loving, I don't see why they can't do the same with AA
Honestly they should make it where u can change the facial expression cause not everyones tav/durge is terrifed of ascended astarion especially dark urge 😅
If the dominant and slightly sadistic part of Astarion's personality had been explored better before the ritual in the dark novel in any way - yes If the whole story of Astarion wasn't made up of fragments and confusing ideas so that the philosophical idea of the story could be reasoned with in some way - yes If Tav's face was playful and happy - yes. ... And there are a lot of "ifs" to evaluate this story. Certainly Astarion is not himself when make by different hands with different ideas at different times. Writing with one hand "Dark romance with a villain" with a single male-evil and the other hand "Abuse and look how wrong" is absurd. Write a complex neutral-evil character, give him a story (at least somehow) to think about from different sides, then say "look evil is horrible and isolating" is absurd. Isolation from players who prefer great, complex evil.
I’ve stopped playing BG3 now (the fandom and developer toxicity towards AA was too many nails in this coffin) but I will check out Rogue Trader - thank you for the rec! ❤
I literally came straight here when I finally saw the new updates after busying about for so. Fucking. Long because this channel is the only safe-ish place I could think of to express my opinions as someone who liked the Ascended ending (since any other space I knew of prior seemed to have all shut down) and there’s nowhere for me to even express my opinions on this topic without fear of getting mobbed by a bunch of gloating self-righteous pricks. For the past month, I’ve been super preoccupied with rushing to finish applications to a university program I’ve long wanted to go to before the deadline, and I was so happy to finally be done with all the stuff I was busy with and get back to playing the game. When I saw that Larian wrote that they added new dynamic interactions with companions etc, I was so excited… until I went in and saw *this*. I literally felt my back go cold and had no idea wtf was even going on. It just felt like they stepped on whatever nuance and depth this route had in favour of fulfilling the self-gratifying 2D, there can only ever be one road to healing, and that’s if the person abandons all their prior goals and wishes in favour of pleasing your high-horse sense of morality bc you’re only “equal” if the other person has objectively nothing so they could start all over relying on you POV. Oh and, if you think taking any other route isn’t so bad, then screw you, you deserve to and can only get abused narrative. 90% of the ppl playing this game are already going off on this to condemn, shame, and morally witch-hunt those they don’t agree with. For even Larian, the supposed third-neutral-party, to go along with this is like a splash of cold water, a slap, a spit in the face. I feel like something I found precious and even took the initiative to hide away in order to let everyone else be happy only so I could bring it out in private during moments when I’m in need of comfort was snatched from my arms, stomped on, and crushed beneath the heel while I’m being mocked by one of the very few parties that were supposed to remain neutral (at worst, bc that’s the bare minimum they’re supposed to do as professionals) who were the ones that gave me this in the first place. It feels like after getting fucked over and told “f u” by family and life in general irl everyday (along with such a vast majority on the whole damn internet that has even less place dictating my decisions, thoughts, and feelings than my goddamn family), I’ve been told to go fuck myself by literally one of the last things I thought I could ever get betrayed and abandoned by. A fucking character. A fucking character that I thought I could return to in my moments of vulnerability bc how the hell could a character possibly crush my trust into the dirt like every other person in my real life?? Well Larian decided to prove me wrong, and I’m genuinely contemplating abandoning this game I set aside a week of food to buy bc what even is the point of playing now?? If I wanted to go and get gaslit, shamed, and abused I could just open up video call with the relatives whom I’ve been trying to avoid for months now. I didn’t need to pay for this.
Yeah, totally understand your feelings. Also, a lot of fans feel exactly the same way and I think all these people on Twitter who are "excited" about the new kisses were never AA fans. Otherwise they would realise how bad and black and white it looks. A game with choices that doesn't actually give you a choice is ridiculous. This update wasn't even necessary, they did it for nothing. I wrote feedback after the epilogue about adding a kiss for the epilogue dialogue. AA is the only one who doesn't have some sort of romantic interaction in that moment. But now I feel like they never planned on making it. With every patch they reinforce more and more the "you're the victim and he's your tormentor" stance, not letting the player choose their position. I really don't like this intrusiveness, which, by the way, wasn't there before! Here's the worst part. They changed material that looked better and made it worse. Punishing the player for a choice they themselves gave! Unthinkable. "You can play evil in our game," - with tears in your eyes. Some of the AA fans made a survey to then send it to Larian as feedback. You can take it if you want to. But personally, I don't hold out much hope that they'll listen. I partially gave up on the game after an interview where they stated that "emptiness is the result of an evil path". And since I started playing another new crpg, I've experienced a wild resonance from the writing, and couldn't go back to bg3 without a modicum of scepticism. I was just lucky that by the time they introduced this update, I had already found a character I liked more. I'm sorry you're experiencing this. Part of my fear is what other patches might bring to bg3 and what the game will look like after 6 months.
@@nyloth Your quick response has been such a huge comfort you have no idea. It’s so hard to not feel so alone in this situation when majority of the people speaking about this online are gloating and laughing at your misery, and pretty much all channels of communication with other AA fans have been shut down. It really doesn’t help how Larian’s inaction (or action in this particular case) has basically been a silent concession or even encouragement towards the already terrible bullying behaviour most of the fandom have towards anybody who doesn’t automatically jump onto the “AA is evil and abusive and if you don’t believe that then you’re delusional” train. It’s exactly as you’ve said, no AA fans would like these changes, and the only ones who are happy about it are the ones who are insistent on the whole “he’s become abusive” narrative because now they’ve “been proven right” by the official party. Like I mentioned, the least thing Larian could’ve done as professionals was to keep silent as they’ve always have done if they wanted to avoid backlash (while the more moral thing to do would’ve been to step in and speak up against the bullying in the fandom a long time ago, but let’s be real, I think everyone has long given up on any expectations of that), but giving exactly what would make the already aggressive majority exactly what they want to see is has essentially given them the ammo they need to completely verbally open fire on those who don’t agree with them. Larian as a studio has utterly disappointed me, I don’t even want to bother putting up a fight because their stance has already been completely displayed with this final action of theirs. They intend to go along with what majority of players desire to see/hear, all prior intent and characterization be damned, and the already suppressed minority can just go F off bc they’d earn more money by buttering up the majority of players in the long run. I think that’s what chills my heart the most on top of the fact that the changes itself were actually super triggering… it’s the fact that by ignoring and going along with the unrestful social environment in their fandom, they’ve essentially let everyone know that it’s okay to open fire because the rest of us don’t matter. The cherry on top of this whole messed up cake is that I can’t even just ignore the whole community politics and just bury myself into my own game in private bc Larian has basically left me no way to even continue playing this game. Something so many people don’t realize is that just because they have a mental and physical aversion to something, that doesn’t mean it’s for sure something awful and wrong that everyone in their right mind would have the same aversion to. I actually got so physically repulsed the first time I went down the spawn route that I immediately save-scummed like how so many spawn fans like to say they do for trying out the AA route. Now, I can’t go down either route without seeing something that would trigger a physical reaction, and I can’t even reload saves I especially made in previous campaigns to give myself a bit of comfort when I’m miserable. Unfortunately I haven’t found another game yet that suits my tastes exactly as much as BG3 had, so I’m still temporarily stuck with no way to move on. But even if that’s the case, I don’t plan on opening and playing the game anymore. After all, isn’t that exactly what they and the rest of the community want? For us to all go F off so they could pander and indulge in their black-and-white, morally high-horse fantasies? Larian has made it explicitly clear that they don’t care or want us to play their game, so I won’t bother to stick my hot cheeks against their cold ass.
@@16_shiliuI honestly think Larian doesn't care about fandom. They're only thinking about profit and marketing right now. Since everyone around them is discussing romances and companion interactions, adding something like this is the best marketing. But they don't care about the feelings of the few fans who liked AA. Unfortunately, it's a business. I've also already said that the public opinion of one of their writers who accuses the player of "misunderstanding the character" and "sexualising" it is just unacceptable. There is an actively thriving purity culture in the bg3 fandom. People just don't perceive nuance. Larian saying "you can't like a villain, and villain = abuser" only indulges that position. I could suggest you play RT, on the other hand visually it's a completely different game, and Marazhai is different from Astarion. But I think what would help you is switching to any other fandom and completely isolating yourself from the bg3 fandom. I could see some of AA fans trying to embrace new kiss and "mitigate the consequences" but in the end they were destroyed by the behaviour of the fandom. Either way, don't waste your nerve cells on this. It's really not worth it.
@@nyloth that’s what I think so too, Larian just doesn’t give a damn about their fandom environment and only intends to pander to the majority for the sake of long-term profit. Original intents, characterization, and feelings and opinions of the minority of players be damned because what do we matter in the face of bigger profit. I genuinely suspect that the main person behind writing these new interactions is that same writer who assumes that everybody who chooses the AA path must be thinking the only way they’d be thinking, and that’s that they’d be doing it for the dom/sub kinks. I’m lowkey surprised that writer hasn’t already learned their lesson that not everybody thinks the way they do (aka, their decisions must be based off of kink vs no kink) after receiving backlash last time, but then again, someone who thinks they could accurately group hundreds of thousands of people into such a shallow way of thinking wouldn’t have the awareness in the first place. And yeah, I’m basically just searching around for a new game to get into rn. Because as long as BG3 continues to go down this path of… I don’t even know what to call it, perhaps “purity-culture-pandering” to borrow your words, I don’t see myself putting in any more of my time and already worn-out-from-irl heartache into this game. I’m looking into RT (and Marazhai skdjsksjk) after seeing you recommend it a few times in a couple places (and I trust your taste!!!) but I haven’t settled on a decision so far bc Google hasn’t exactly given me more in-depth answers to questions I have about this game yet (I’m mainly tying to figure out how RT’s story, graphics, battle, and character customization are since I’ve got pretty high standards for those as an animation major… Q-Q).
@@16_shiliuYeah, totally understand your point on this one. RT is a regular crpg in the graphical sense, that's why I thought it wouldn't work for you. Bg3 is a next level turn based game. I think the only thing that will come out in the next few years that will be similar in terms of graphics is new Dragon Age. x_x
As weird as it sounds i am grieving right now because of these animations. The moment i watched them it instantly destroyed my love for character, maybe even the game. I waited for patch 6 for my second pt and wanted to replay my first character but more evil plus aastarion. The joke is on me. I don´t know anymore what larian wants to proof with their constant changes to the ascendant romance but i still care, sadly. I want do the romance anymore until (hopefully) they change the animation, only the friendship path. I don´t know who makes these decisions at larian but congrats you did it! Thank you for ruining a beloved character for me because you had to push you opinion on me! (I am sorry for being dramatic here. Just had to vent a bit.)
It looks like many of us AA fasn are in the same boat, I would like to think Larian is watching and might consider fixing what they broke and that is our trust in the character. Still now I feel somehow free, free from an obsession with a pixel character... he broth positive changes in my life but it was still an obsession and now I am free which is bitter sweet to say the least.
I felt ill watching it really. Again, THIS ISN'T because 'oh he's EVIL, DUh' ITS BECAUSE if I am playing an evil-bloodthirsty bhaal child, I shouldn't be scared/timid.. hell I should be just as much enjoying and biting and bloodlicking, you know? If CHOICES matter, why are we -forced- to be default good in our characters reactions? Give us an option to choose a set of reactions then if they don't want to be dynamic and have no alignment-system based thing. Its immersion breaking and pointless... maybe if they were so hard on hating Twilight so much and trying to ruin vampires, they'd get WHY some of us are annoyed. Moved on from this rubbish as well. IF I ever played the game again, that trash stays friendzoned. Its what they wanted anyway.. they never wanted you to like the character, hence why you can do so many horrible and cruel things to him. So this is what we get, as usual. Man, take that abusive writing and emotional manipulation garbage elsewhere. I'd like to try Rogue Trader, but I have such a hard time getting into Warhammer40k.. trying to play Mechanicus cause the soundtrack is amazing.
Apparently they wanted us to fix him. Even added children to the ritual (what a cheap trick by the way), just so we would stop and think about it! I started playing RT with absolutely zero knowledge of Warhammer 40k. There's a handy guide in the game, though I'm still learning the specifics of this universe.
@@nyloth I can say that Mechanicus has been a fun turn-based strategy, interesting visuals and atmosphere. If RT has an in game guide, that makes me way more inclined to pick it up sooner rather than later. Thanks for the info. :) At the very least I know you get a proper evil path for it. I always just like having both cause its a treat to replay twice to see more story/lore you wouldn't have the first time.
It's more like being a default victim than being a default good. I guess writers try to tell us that Ascended Astarion will always dominate over us, giving us no choice to be the abusers/assholes/dominating in the Ascended relationship but... I dunno, Ascended Astarion is kinda cringe lol
@@winterviveca5976 Not really. They fixed the evil ending scene with the brain. Now you don't hypnotise Astarion and he stands next to you when you're sitting on the throne. It doesn't feel like he's dominating in this situation. But then again, there are so many holes in the narrative that I don't see how to construe this at all. Also, there's nothing wrong with dominance as a fact, it's just being presented here in a disgusting way, from a certain angle.
Ну зато те самые психологи из комментариев порадуются 🤌Сами анимации выглядят неплохо (но колени, я просто ору), но да, это испуганное выражение лица... Почему не дать выбор: хотите играть жертву, пожалуйста, есть же такие опции в диалогах, но нет. У самой желания возвращаться в игру не было, но я вижу это и представляю свою ТС в этой сцене, и, да поможет нам Баал, испуг это последнее, что она бы испытывала. Я понимаю там обычные Тав, но Соблазн вообще никак не вяжется с этим выражением. И в итоге мы имеем с одной стороны -- добрячка спавна или вот это вот. Еще пара патчей, и лариан прямым текстом на пол экрана скажут, что вознесение - это плохо, а вашим злым отыгрышем мы можем подтереться. Грустно, потому что вознесенный Астарион был наиболее близок к тому, что я ждала от романа еще с раннего доступа. По сути только Минтара подходит моей героине, так что, наверное, настало время изменить свои игровые предпочтения в романах))) Благо, она мне нравится. Что еще забавно: они добавили пару строчек в диалогах с Горташем, что в принципе можно подтянуть к романтике (я одна из тех, у кого они были любовниками в прошлом в моем каноне, да), и если они в итоге короткими шажочками дойдут до того, чтобы запилить роман с ним, смотрите, как они его сделают либо добрячком, либо предателем, потому что они очевидно не знают, как прописать роман между двумя злодеями и сольют даже эту динамику.
Увидела еще ваш комментарий про сожаления в финале и вспомнила, как я сама недоумевала с этой сцены. Изобель одна из множества жертв по ходу игры, и моя гг тоже сделала этот выбор осознанно, потому что награда стоила этого в ее понимании (все ради победы). И тут внезапно в конце эти сожаления?.. В принципе вся эта тема с тем, что отказ от Баала = теперь ты хорошая, это так странно. Представляешь, идешь всю игру, выкашиваешь поселения, ломаешь судьбы, но стоило один раз сказать нет папке, так все, теперь ты на светлой стороне по мнению игры и жалеешь о содеянном зле
Я думаю, что если бы на лице (чуть не написала РТ всё крыша поехала) Тав/Дуржа была улыбка, то реально можно было бы воспринимать это как хорни игру между любовниками. Но эта напуганная рожа, господи помилуй... Горташ хороший персонаж, который тоже бездарно слит в конце, к сожалению. Думаю, максимум, что они могут сделать, это не убивать его и заставить стоять рядом с вами с троном. Сильно сомневаюсь что добавят полноценный роман.
Вот да, с новым патчем и сценами с Вознесенным А какие-то смешанные чувства. В интервью и диалогах, как и по сюжету часто говорилось, что А скорее персонаж с серой моралью, а не злодей. А с новым патчем он уходит в одну из двух крайностей: либо слишком добрый, либо слишком злой. Причём ещё и прямо таки чувствуется как АА упивается своей властью над Тав/Дурджем и нравится унижать и делать больно. Что в принципе как-то вообще не вяжется с самим персонажем. До этого то не был таким деспотом. Откуда оно все? Учитывая, что в интервью также говорилось, что Вознесенный А все еще тот же Астарион, только без маски... Похоже времена с поцелуями лорда Астариона закончились 😅
@@nyloth улыбка или может злость, да что угодно, но не этот испуг( на горташа сказался вырезанный контент, потому что будь в игре верхний город, его роль была бы куда шире явно, что тоже грустно, он ведь даже не предал союз с гг, а просто так тупо умер. Если честно, после этих патчей я уже и не хочу роман, мне достаточно фанатского творчества...
@@sonarana_Ларианы в целом не старались сильно с отыгрышем злодеев. Как человек, который постоянно играет за дроу Ллос, ещё и паладина Ллос, я не могу перестать кекать с того как мой герой фанатично готов защищать «низшие расы». Лишь пара язвительных фраз есть и все. Таким макаром можно было вообще Ллос лоялистов не добавлять.
А мне сами сцены нравятся, но испуганный вид Тава в этот момент - выглядит странно. Типа почемуууу, она же сама это выбрала, логично, что её должен устраивать такой вариант)
ну видимо разрабы подразумевали этим другое. в целом поцелуй, который они украли у Карлах, неплохой. но опять лицо такое же напуганное и недовольное. поцелуй с кровью мне не понравился небрежным движением руки, типа втф. ну и колени... bruh
@@nyloth ну у них получилось очень странное видение Астариона лорда, поэтому на романе я всегда оставляла его вампирским отродьем. Слишком не вяжется его изначальное поведение с поведением после вознесения. Меня от этого триггерит и его "my favorite little pet" звучит для меня дико. В противоположность тому же Маражаю, с которым это смотрится в целом логично и полностью вписывается в общую картину романа)
@@Sapfyra358 вот для меня наоборот. Изначально Астарион планировался испорченным персонажем гедонистом. Поэтому образ Лорда и такой исход идеально ему подходил. Его поведение очень вяжется с этим. Другое дело, что его поведение и отношение к Тав не вяжется вообще. Тот факт, что он стал Лордом, к тому же с нашей помощью, не должен был влиять на отношения таким образом. Но увы. Это как если жрать мозги ради Марципана, а потом получить от него отворот поворот. Деградация отношений в данных условиях не имеет смысла. За старания нет награды. Вы жертвуете чем-то ради Аста, но не получаете никакой награды, и это кажется мне убогим сценарием. Астарион называет питомцем до Вознесения. Как минимум 3 раза, и при определенных условиях может назвать pup. с: Фаворита раньше не было, это тоже считаю минусом. Не имеет смысла, когда у него нет других партнеров в данный момент.
@@nyloth я насколько понимаю "испорченым персонажем" он задумывался изначально, но потом это всё переиграли и весь сценарий перекроили. Поэтому у меня он в текущей интерпретации воспринимается как жертва абстоятельств, а не какое-то злое зло. И к концу игры (в моем случае) Он вообще становится уже больше положительным персонажем, более мягким, спокойным и адекватным. P.S. за два прохождения на романе с ним ни разу не слышала от него обращения "pet, pup" и т.д. Кроме как после вознесения.
Мягко говоря разочарована новыми поцелуями. Допустим у меня нет предъяв к поведению Асти , но почему гг ведет себя как испуганная овца, для того же соблазна это ппц нелепо, она явно его не боится и отвечает колкостью на колкость, а тут вообще мимо персонажа. Пусть она закатывает глаза , когда встает на колени ( типа подыгрывает ) пусть раздражается, когда он ее отталкивает. Но тут какие-то хейтеры пробрались и сделали 2 отстойные сцены с поцелуями. И мне вот интересно, а кольцо защиты разума, которое нам дает Омелум поможет против контроля Асти?)))
кольцо ничем не поможет, но пока у вас в башке червь, то контроль все равно не действует. я думаю основная проблема в том, что многие люди представляли себе другую динамику для этой пары, в отличие от той, которую представляли сами авторы...
@@nyloth да в принципе было норм, эти сцены никто не просил делать. Теперь придется кринжевать и делать вид что их нет 🤡 но чувство от романа с Асти вообще испорчено
@@sova9485 да уж, я обожаю вампиров, просто невыносимо, можно сказать. Но авторы этих сценок ухитрились испортить все впечатление об этом вампире, мда...
Очень ждала вашу реакцию на эти "поцелуи" и полностью с вами согласна. Казалось бы, добавили всего 3 анимации, а насколько же они похерили всё представление о персонаже и романе с ним 💩 Возносить Астариона не перестану, но буду делать вид, что этих анимаций не существует 🤣 Остальное меня устраивает процентов на 98.
Да, у меня тоже смешанные чувства 😅 Как-то слишком злобным его сделали, хотя даже намеков на это не было. Возносить и проходить концовку залпом - мой вариант, тогда будет без абьюза и лишних унижений, ужаса и непонимания в глазах Тав/Дурджа.
Повторюсь, что ИМХО, у Аста вообще не должно было быть такой динамики. Я не знаю зачем они её добавили с 500 патчем. видать чтобы толпу в твиттере порадовать.
@@nylothсогласна. Эта динамика не имеет смысла никакого после всего, через что они прошли, и уж тем более в отношениях с Урджем, который врагов голыми руками в клочья рвёт.
Я безумно рада, что наткнулась на ваш канал, то что вы описали под видео, буквально то, что думаю я - БГ3 запорот в хлам, и если акт 1 ещё работает, то, чем дальше, тем сильнее все ломается. Спасибо Совокотам за Маражая, да и вообще за прекрасных компаньонов, фактически в любой игре. И вообще хочу ещё добавить, если то, что с Астом делают Ларианы, своего рода нравоучения, то хочется им посоветовать, делать рейтинг 12+ и выпускать игры не для взрослого сегмента. Думаю уж люди в 20-30 лет, могут спокойно играть в игру, где им не будут тыкать в хорошее и плохое. Да и вообще понятие хорошо/плохо относительно, даже беря в пример золотую клетку, очень многих людей такое устроит , вполне искренне
Думаю, что у Лариан изначально были неплохие идеи, по крайней мере исходя из датамайна всё было гораздо интереснее и морально серо. Например, выбирать между ковеном ведьм и лордом вампиром, было бы точно сложнее. Но почему загубили все идеи? Я понятия не имею. Возможно для массовости. Да, совокоты прям радуют. Жаль, конечно, что во втором пасфайндере мне только девушки зашли.
@@nyloth Да, эти идеи я помню, собственно они и заинтересовали. О, то что они вырезали ковен, это вообще было неожиданностью. Про диалог с Гурами я вообще молчу. Да и собственно Казадор, которого отвязали от основного сюжета. Честно сказать, зачем, я сама не понимаю. Возможно вы и правы, что для массовости. Правда то, что они делают сейчас, не знаю, как будет влиять на эту массовость, что даже люди, кто радовался до этих новых анимаций, уже начинают по тихоньку отворачиваться. По поводу совокотов, думаю, хорошо, когда в игре хоть кто-то нравится как ЛИ. Просто в Балде к примеру для меня кроме Аста просто нет ЛИ -нравятся некоторые компаньоны, как друзья, но ЛИ для персонажа в них я не вижу... в Диване вообще никто не заинтересовал =*D
@@akaimikadzuki ну тут ещё играет роль отсутствие верхнего города, я верю, что роль Каса могли понефрить и из-за этого. Но это уже домыслы. Да, у совокотов просто персонажи интересные, даже не как ЛИ. Мне в РТ все по своему нравятся, даже убивать никого не хочется. У каждого своя история, нет похожих мотивов. В Бг3 есть те, кто прям откровенно бесит. Помимо Аста на раннем доступе мне нравилась только Лае и Минтара. В итоге первая в конце превращается в дипломатку (или получает плохую концовку лел), а вторая была на релизе сломана к чертям. Ну и как ЛИ я тоже их не вижу, потому что женские персонажи мне нравятся с точки зрения подружек х) И мотивы в БГ3 в основном одинаковые. Лае + Шадоу = откажись от богов. Аст + Гейл = откажись от силы. Арку Уилла я вообще не поняла, у Карлах что-то вроде "цени момент/живи по полной", учитывая что на релизе она всегда умирала. У Минтары просто нет личного квеста. В любом случае всё это сходится под "откажись от того, чего желаешь, потому что оно тебе навредит". Даже ДОС2 не была так узка в своих арках.
@@nyloth Честно, у меня с Касом такие же ощущения, как и теория о том что Орин= Нижний, Горташ= Верхний вполне логична. Каз же как помню, был прямым врагом Орин и некого Мясника, но находился конечно в Верхнем.У меня есть слабая надежда, что в каком-нибудь Готи эдишине, верхний вернут, но учитывая что они накрутили, сильно не верю, что даже если его вернут, вернут или хотя бы частично вернут того самого Астариона. Помню, ещё раньше натыкалась , что в датамайне во время ЕА в верхнем городе был маркер квеста "коррумпированный судья" Последний забег я наконец то взяла Минтару без резни, и этому, кстати вполне рада была, она не плоха, но контента в край мало. Так же мне был и Халсин интересен, своей историей, что он повинен в падении Кетрика, а не тем что сейчас, поэтому по кд отправляю его Орин, что б придать его существованию, хоть какой-то смысл =D С Лаэ полностью согласна, её смягченние, для меня странное...При этом сами Лари говорят (к счастью) что Минтару смягчать -ни-ни, а простите, смягчение гита - это нормально? Про мотивы полностью поддерживаю, и хочу добавить, тут какая-то странная история выходит, если утрировать, то у всех персонажей, есть властная фигура над ними, при этом, по изначальной задумке, отношения с этой фигурой, довольно агрессивные(либо скрытая/ещё не раскрытая будущая вражда) + каждому эта фигура снилась. Тут мне кажется была какая-то идея, что конкретно вот эти ребята попали в одну компанию не просто так, но видно после идеи вырезать Дейзи, это просто осталось хвостом, который никто решил не переосмысливать. "Откажись от того, чего желаешь, потому что оно тебе навредит" - вообще скажу, что подобная навязанная концепция, для ролевой игры, с отыгрышем.... (про отыгрыш в бг это конечно отдельная история) подобное не допустимо, т.к. в любой роли, у игрока должен быть баланс между тем, что из содеянного тебя привело к тому или иному, причем в сероморальной опять таки обстановке а не черно-белой конструкции. Вспоминая даже менее ролевые игры как ВЕдьмак 3 или ДАИ -хоть и вариативностей там мало, но тебя там не стараются учить, что надо спасать детишек, а не дядю алкаша или что головы рубить это плохо, нужно в лучших традициях Наруты всех бегать и примирять.
Я вчера почитала про degrading. Нашла сайтик соответствующий. Это dom/sub классический. То есть хотела унижений? Получи унижений. Ну ок, а если я хочу получать их с довольным лицом? Я ж хорошая девочка! 😂 У меня смешанные чувства. Хорошо, что хоть в фанфиках я могу натворить все, что душе угодно и исправить/объяснить то, что тролли Ларианы наворотили. А то б совсем тяжко было.
Это не дом/саб, уж поверьте мне. Дом - это лидирующая позиция. Тот кто ведет за собой, а не тот кто унижает вас, особенно против вашей воли. У Тав с Астом нет никакой договоренности в отношении этого, его доминация становится резкой и ставит Тав перед фактом. Его фразы намекают на бартер. Опять же, хотите посмотреть на правильную дом/саб динамику, чекайте роман Маражая, который может быть как сабом так и домом, и который прежде чем действовать объясняет вам "правила игры". Потому что с ним вы участник игры, а не жертва. И учитывайте, что во втором акте у Астариона нет и намека на подобный тип отношений. В нормальной дом/саб динамике, даже если вы унижаетесь, то делаете это по своей воле и в удовольствие. Что-то я не вижу удовольствия на лице Тав. Да и все реплики в романе АА сейчас делают Тав жертвой, в этом и проблема. Вы не соучастник. По крайней мере Лариан это так прописали и показали эмоциями на лице вашего персонажа. Это так же, как и эта фраза в эпилоге про "свободу", как будто писатель пытается вам намекнуть "на самом деле у вас всё плохо". К сожалению. Короче если Лариан таким образом пытались показать "доминацию", то как я и сказала, это дешевые приемы уровня 50 оттенков.
@@nyloth согласна. Где consent? Я подумала, что он случился, когда Тав встала на колени первый раз. Мол, ну все, я согласная. Тогда ладно. Но опять же, а где чего обговорили? Стоп-слово? Выхухоль! Что нельзя? Ставить на колени при всех, я все-таки лидер! 😂🙈
На унижение есть кинк и достаточно распространенный, но он не превалирует у аудитории фанатов ААстариона, судя по всему. Просто складывается ощущение, что сценарист(ы), ответственные за Астариона, начитались срачей между двумя лагерями, и встали в позу Астариона-отродья. Не то что бы я сам не там, никогда не понимал, как можно, не моргнув глазом, сказать, что после вознесения там какая-то великая любовь и пр, но теперь вижу головы людей, которые за динамику пары двух жадных до власти злодеев, и за них обидно, потому что поцелуи вообще-то горячи, если бы не это лицо ГГ, словно у игрока, впервые увидевшего Матку в ДАО. Лариан почти дали мне повод пройти с вознесением и перестать ворчать на то, что есть гораздо больше более важных вещей, достойных работы над ними для улучшения игры (поддержка модов, спасибо Лариан за патч, который прекратил мой забег на Доблести преждевременно; выбор спутников в пачку после ухода из лагеря и их роспуск при входе в хаб (как во всех ролевых до этого...)), почти получилось :D P.S. Как в той поговорке про жену, проститутку и гейшу, расставьте Дейрана, Маражая и Астариона по своему вкусу @@nyloth
@@vesperatmahatia2731 да нет просто конкретно в динамике Тав/Аст он не отслеживается. Не того рода унижение здесь происходит. Как я и сказала, унижающийся должен получать от этого удовольствие, здесь этого нет. Дейрана я вообще не люблю, лел. Зато мне нравится Тристан. Да и Камелия и Вендуаг во втором Пасфайндере просто лучше.
Главное не количество анимаций, а их качество... У АА сделали все 3 унизительные в плане отношений. Это даже не имеет никакого смысла, с каких пор он стал внезапным садистом? Ни с одним из компаньонов у ГГ нет такого лица, полного ужаса/отвращения/злости/непонимания. Я так ждала этот патч с обещанными нововведениями и когда увидела, у меня лицо было, как у ГГ во время этих сцен. И немой вопрос "это чтооооо?" и "за чтооооооо?". Я как будто заказала обед из 3х блюд, а мне принесли кем-то пережеванную кашу и сказали "bon appetit". Лицо ГГ изменить на нейтральное или довольное и ситуация заиграет другими красками. Или привязать сцены к моменту обращения: "нежнее или ладно, пусть будет больно" и уже игрок выбирает как хочет видеть свой отыгрыш. Сцена от Карлыча, самая нейтральная из 3х представленных... Эх...спасибо Ларианы за плевок в душу... Верните порядочно беспорядочную сволочь, которой чхать на всех, кроме любовного Тава/Дуржа. Пусть самоутверждается за счёт остальных вместе со мной "side by side" и "аs the World Falls Down". Я помогла тебе, какого черта ты шлепаешь по лицу и толкаешь, как псину побитую. Лучше было без этих нововведений вообще...😢
@@nyloth If you watch Karlach's kiss with free camera, it is not. Unfortunately.. It seems Tav is even raising his arm to Astarion's arm to stop him. The best scene is indeed the "kneel down" scene in my opinion, at the point, where they are starting to kiss, because you can see that Tav is enjoying it. But really, all kisses show no love, no touch, no joy. Tav is a soulless vicim of abuse, his fists are even clenched., he is almost entire standing there like "don't touch me!", wanting to reject Astarion, but do not dare to touch or push him away. That is really hard Sadistic personality disorder, what they are showing..
@@ElisaSternberg I don't know what they're trying to show, but I know it hasn't happened before. The kneeling scene is inappropriate in and of itself. Begging for a kiss on your knees? That's over the top. It's stupid to do that kind of kissing. Why doesn't our character just break up with Astarion then? As long as you have a tadpole, that's a possibility. This update just skews the entire epilogue, in which Tav/Durge were quite happy with their situation. Plus, in the epilogue, Astarion says you are extremely important to him, but with those kisses, he's squeamish about you. Something doesn't add up. It feels like they wanted to add some dominance because people are squealing about it. They did it badly. But if they actually decided to drastically change his tone, that's even worse. Keep in mind that Karlach kiss was previously used by Astarion before his Ascension.
@@nyloth Yes, they didn't do themselves or the players any favors with the kisses, for me the main problem is that the kisses are not consensual, i.e. Tav is unhappy, despises Astarion, is afraid of him, is portrayed as a victim of abuse. There is no love between the two. And you're right, Tav would never ask for a second kiss and would break up with him straight away. These kissing scenes contradict not only the romance scene where Astarion and Tav love each other and touch each other, where you also can chose between "be gentle" and "let it hurt", and Astarion listen to it, but all the other conversations, for example when Astarion says: "Of course I'll do (drink the blood of Tav) and you'll drink mine . I can't wait to taste your lips, after you've tasted me" - Tav smiles a lot after this and is happy. And now he is afraid, scared and uncomfortable with Astarion biting him? This all doesn't make sense at all. When I watched all kisses with free camera, I was shocked, how bad it really is. They don't dare to touch each other. Tav is always clenching his fists and try to resist, but is afraid to do so. Yes, in the Karlach context it might be look good (and we only see one angle), but here, in this context, Tav is looking scared, rejecting Astarion, having a sad look at the end, it really doesn't look good. And for those who play Karlach, it's a slap in the face also.. Astarion has a kink for SM in act 1, so for myself, I think dominance and consent SM is okay and would fit him. But not like this, where Tav is shown as a victim of abuse. This is loveless abuse, nothing more, unbearable to watch Tav. Who knows, what their intention was, to make people feel sick and uncomfortable, to please players who chose the good path, didn't know Astarion's complex character and story, or they hardly know what healthy SM is or someone of the team has a strong personality disorder. Otherwise I can't explain their intention. And by the way, thank you for all your videos about Astarion, I really enjoyed them.
Шел 2 день после патча, и я скорее согласна с вашим мнением по поводу нового АА. Не понимаю, почему многие в восторге от новых сцен. Для меня это до сих пор шок и непринятие. Вознесшийся Астарион стал скорее похож на Касадора, несмотря на то, что этого в нём никогда не было, стал злым, его забавляют страдания Тав/Дурджа и страх, и отношение не как к консорту, а как к собачонке. Только вот зачем ему с песиком делить власть и трон? Тем более допустим, если Дурджу нравится эта игра, то почему не дать игроку выбор? В сцене обращения был выбор между "будь нежен" и по-хардкору. А здесь такое чувство, будто Тав эта игра не нравится, страх и обида на лице. До этого можно было строить теорию о том, что АА будет злым со всеми, но не со своим "сокровищем". Может, конечно, хотели явно подвести к тому, что отношения с АА будут такие же как у Астариона и Касадора, и Тав/Дурдж начала это понимать... А может и нет. Возможно и я чего-то не понимаю... но для меня такой поворот на 180 в отношениях АА и Дурджа кажется слишком неприемлимо... Я просто хочу понять почему так или просто развидеть 😅
Я предполагаю, что те, кто в восторге, вообще никогда не были фанатами АА и просто по фану смотрят на эту концепцию. Я зашла и в АА конфы и на форум в нужные темы, и ситуация там всё же 50/50. Визжят только в твиттере. Но они в сами отношения героев не углубляются, им просто "вау бдсм дэдик", хотя, как я и сказала, если это они так доминацию показывают, то это дешево. Вот, верно вы говорите. Раньше было ощущение "я исключение" и "пока он руинит другим, а не мне, всё хорошо, я его сокровище" вроде того. В конце концов в эпилоге он говорил, что Тав его дополняет, а не просто тащил за собой как раба. И в целом, если не прожимать эти убогие тригерные фразы, в стиле "я хатю свабыды", то не было этого ощущения жертвенности вообще. Но сейчас во всех трёх анимациях буквально выражение недовольства на лице. Навряд ли это баг или ошибка. Выглядит как намерение. Почему они так сделали я тоже не знаю. Возможно гнут свою ветку "вы жертва в этой ситуации". Но это убивает весь ролеплей.
@@nyloth вот да, и ролеплей и отношения и сами персонажи как-то теряются. До этого отношения строились на факте исключительности, Тав его сокровище и будет рядом, когда тот будет править миром. А возможно и поможет его захватить и бросит к ногам АА. А теперь Тав/Дурдж скорее игрушка и это от каждой сцены прямо так и чувствуется, АА наиграется и бросит ее в ту же самую псарню, которую сам ненавидел, чтобы глаза не мозолила. Отношения с АА были всегда интересны своей глубиной, да это была возможно не такая любовь от которой бабочки в животе или щенячья привязанность Спавна, это были отношения на общем прошлом и общих целях, общих мотивах и т.д. Сейчас, это отношения злодея и жертвы. Даже в сцене с обращением, когда говоришь ему: "пусть будет больно" он делает больно потому, что Тав/Дурдж его просят об этом, у него нет такого выражения лица, как в сценах с поцелуем, когда он явно и в открытую упивается болью и страхом ГГ. В сцене с обращением чувствуется любовь и страсть, в сценах с поцелуями - жестокость и отвращение АА к Тав.
@@Iviariantis ну я прям не знаю насчет жестокости и отвращения. Опять же скажу, добавить Тав улыбку в этих сценах и это будет просто игра между любовниками, потому что каждый доволен своей ролью. Но из-за гримасы ужаса это выглядит не так.
@@nyloth согласна, здесь они перебощили. Жестокость, имелась ввиду все эти пинания и отпихивания, а также страх в глазах Тав, что скорее сводит весь процесс не к игре любовников, а к игре хищника и его добычи. Поэтому после этих сцен возникает неоднозначное чувство и жалость к ГГ, которой не особо нравится подобное отношение и поведение АА. Такое чувство, что специально выставили АА злым к Тав, чтобы сделать это прохождение однозначно злым. В общем, как итог, новые сцены с АА мне не зашли... потерялась вся магия отношений и БГ3 захотелось отложить... 😅
@@nyloth В общем не знаю, от патча осталось неприятное послевкусие. Возможно они это исправят, а может и нет, но ощущение никуда не денутся. Словно наплевали на фанатов АА, подчеркнув, что это плохой выбор, плохая концовка и Тав/Дурдж будут жертвами этих отношений.
These new scenes for AA are great! Finally AA begins to fit the story and moral that Larian wanted to show from the beginning. 😃 I still think his character is inconsistent, but at least it's cleared up a bit. Now the only problem is that many scenes don't fit together. As if AA had a split personality. And that look on Tav's face.😑 Player should have a choice about how his character feels in this situation, because I find it hard to believe that an evil character will get scared. It doesn't make any sense. At least AA fans got 3 new kisses. Spawn didn't even get a 1.😢
I’m sorry, but I just think it’s absolutely mad to say that it’s the story that Larian wanted to show from the beginning. From the get-go, Larian wanted to portray Astarion as an evil character, and the morals paths you could take with him were essentially different shades of grey (i.e. release 7k vengeful, literally bloodthirsty spawn into an environment that was already having difficulty surviving, don’t release and essentially end 7k lives that Astarion owes, make use of the situation and possibly live with the guilt that you did, etc etc). The initial writer for Astarion’s character had always labelled his endings as good vs evil, and with time everybody just started calling it good vs bad, when really it’s an extremely black-and-white way to view the mental journey of a morally grey character with so much depth. Your words have basically inadvertently proven this point: now none of his scenes/interactions fit together anymore bc the way he behaves in his new dynamics completely contradict the attitude he portrays in every other interaction that’s already been written. AA and the PC’s relationship was never meant to be just plain “abusive”… they’re co-dependant and not supposed to be the prime example of a standard healthy relationship between two healthy individuals, but plain abusive is just the narrative that majority of the fandom like to go with for… idk, sake of convenience to believe spawn ending is definitely the best path to choose?? I’m not even sure how the train of thought works for that. Nobody that likes taking the AA route wanted these new interactions. None of us asked for this. The only ones who are happy over them are the people who love to condemn and degrade those who like AA by saying “you’re delusional, he doesn’t love you, you clearly like being in an abusive relationship” (I’m not even being dramatic here, the times I’ve seen these exact words being used have exceeded what I could count with two hands). We’d rather have nothing at all than what’s essentially just new content that people already bullying us would use as “evidence” to feel more self-assured in doing so, and completely destroys a character that we love.
@@16_shiliuWhere did you get the idea that it was supposed to be a evil ending and not a bad one? (I'm seriously asking, is that what Larian said somewhere?🤔). From what Larain said from the very beginning, it was just supposed to be his BAD ending. Every character has a good and bad ending, why should Astarion be an exception?🤨 From what I understood, it was supposed to be an abuse story from the very beginning. A good ending to break the cycle, a bad ending to continue. That's why AA was inconsistent for me from the very beginning.😑 Many scenes did not fit together. The beginning was ok, but the later the more I saw scenes that didn't fit the character of the evil vampire lord he should have been. As for me, the new scenes are just a continuation of what I saw in the beginning (the conversation before the transformation into a spawn, the transformation scene, etc.)🙂 A healthy relationship? How was something like that supposed to be a healthy relationship?🤔 Tav convinced Astarion that he was right, that he was afraid and that power and strength were the only right way out, thus turning him into another Cazador (I don't mean the treatment of Tav just the worldview), which is just another vampire for whom the most important thing is control over others (including Tav). This was not meant to be a healthy relationship from the beginning. If one likes it then ok, but I really don't understand where the notion that this is a romantic relationship between two villains came from. It would have been nice if there was such an ending, it would be awesome🥰, but it was never meant to be that way. 😒 I've also seen that AA fans like the new kissing scenes, but I guess not everyone though. The only thing that is strange to me is Tav's face. It doesn't fit me a bit with an evil character who specifically pushed him in that direction. Of course, this is my feeling based on the scenes with AA and what Larian said about AA and Astarion in general. As for me, it's just that Larian wanted to convey in a very clear way what they had in mind when creating the character of AAstarion. 🙂
@@RedTab0 that’s where I’m trying to disagree with you, that the writers never intended to be so black-and-white because this game is supposed to be one filled with many moral dilemmas with no right answers in the first place. You’re often stuck between a rock and a hard place, and no characters ending is supposed to be picture perfect because that’s just reality. Example: Shadowheart can choose between letting her and her parents suffer through a lifetime of chronic agony in order for them to stay together and make up for lost time with what they have left, or she could choose to set them all free from Shar’s hold (which is what her parents wanted) with the price of never being able to see them again for as long as she lives (they could reunite in Selûne’s realm after death, but if they never broke out of Shar’s hold it’s a likely possibility that they’d end up in Shar’s realm which is basically purgatory because Selûne can’t reclaim their souls). You can let Karlach “be the motherfucker who saved the world” and permanently cool down her engine but live on as a mindflayer (which is the decision she wants and is happy with, but there is a whole debate on whether she’s lost her soul and is really still Karlach), or force her to not only live on as she is but to also return to the very place she hated most and risked her life to leave for an indefinite amount of time, all for the speck of hope that she could eventually find a way to fix her engine there. There’s also Wyll forever selling his soul, damning him to an eternity of being a slave to devils in Hell in exchange for the life of his estranged father who is vital to rebuilding the city, or to finally break free of the pact but potentially lose not only his father who he still never got the chance to reconnect with but also the Grand Duke of Baldur’s Gate, the very political backbone of the city. So no, Astarion isn’t the exception. This whole game was never supposed to be so clear-cut, and (no offence intended, I’m just stating my feelings as they are) I’m frankly genuinely shocked that anybody would actually think that (though I suppose I shouldn’t be, considering the widespread “purity culture” in this fandom). I can’t send any links because UA-cam automatically blocks any comments that include a link to another video/source, but it’s been stated multiple times in interviews and streams with the original writer of Astarion (there are more than one writer that works on characters’ scenes, and the one writer who said that they see his Ascension ending as just demoting you, him, and your relationship into a kink is only ONE out of MANY writers who worked on his scenes, and they aren’t exactly specifically in charge of Astarion’s scenes either) that the endings were labelled good vs evil. And your observations about how many, if not most of Ascended Astarion’s key scenes such as his pre-spawn conversation, post-spawn conversation, transformation scenes etc, don’t align with this black-and-white point of view exactly proves this point. In all of them, AA was never abusive towards the PC… sure he was evil, but as we all know, that literally is part of the territory of being a vampire lord. As Neil Newbon himself stated in one of his livestreams, AA is basically Astarion’s truest self because he no longer feels the need to hide, he no longer feels vulnerable and Neil especially decided to show that by making Ascended’s body language more operatic vs Spawn’s body language more theatrical (I am literally using his words) so it’s not like what AA wants and needs suddenly changes. If he loved the PC before, he still does, hence why he always uses “we” “us” and even “you” before “me” because as he’s stated many times prior, he sees and wants the PC to be a part of his future. Does this necessarily mean the relationship is healthy? No, and I never even said it was (I even explicitly stated that the relationship isn’t meant to be a standard healthy example of a relationship so please work on your reading comprehension). But at its core, evil Astarion wasn’t meant to just = all things bad = abusive and can’t have anything good like love. It’s like how some criminals who committed atrocious crimes could still be a very loving family man and father-figure to his family but still bomb a bank with no remorse. Human nature has never been so black-and-white, and I am genuinely concerned if people out there above the age of 13 actually think so. It wasn’t just AA being originally intended to be evil from the beginning, but Astarion as a character himself, and I think most of the fandom chooses to ignore that because it’s easier to think of an abuse victim = pure and innocent when that’s not the case (hell, Astarion literally says that “the problem of what Cazador has done is that he did it to ME”). I as an abuse victim can tell you that I in no way consider myself a good person, and I don’t think that detracts in any way that I’m also a victim of abuse. Believing that way is extremely problematic and is precisely why so many people don’t seek help because they don’t think they “qualify” as victims (I speak from experience). Finally, I can say as an AA fan that I haven’t seen a SINGLE ONE who actually likes the new scenes. Any of the people that did were either those who always campaigned the idea that AA = can only be abusive and cheered at the fact that they now have “evidenced” to continue condemning and degrading people who don’t share their opinions, or just the handful of people who like angsty-kinky dynamics and aren’t necessarily fans of AA. Assuming anybody who likes AA are automatically into getting degraded/abused is precisely the same mistaken mentality that the writer who wrote AA’s “on your knees” scene had. It’s not only wrong (because I can tell you most of us do NOT like getting abused) but extremely problematic (many felt physically sick at these new scenes you think is the perfect embodiment of AA, and by extension what those who prefer the AA route should like) because so many people are hurt by the consequences of this thinking. The issue here now isn’t just with the abrupt change of a beloved character, but the twisted mentality of the game’s community and now the studio too. I’m not even this angry because a character I like has been butchered to this state, but because now not only do I have to deal with people irl just assuming what they like about me and consequently treat me like sh*t, now even the producers that gave me one of my few small sources of comfort has handed a knife to an already aggressive massive number of people on the internet to amplify their witch-hunt against people who have done nothing to them, for what… satisfying a twisted sense of moral superiority?? Pardon me for the crude language but my disgust, after staying silent for so damn long to keep those that like to think the world is a good vs evil movie and assume they’re the protagonists that thus have the right to make real people who don’t fit in their fantasy feel like sh*t happy, has reached a point where I don’t even want to hold back anymore.
@@16_shiliuI've heard that Astarion has several writers and maybe that's the problem.🤔 Let's not forget that this is still DnD and at least in part Larian is sticking to the lore. I understand that this is not how the world works, but let's not forget that this is just a GAME, and the vampires in DnD are black and white and are as AA was portrayed in the last patch. Vampires in DnD don't love like humans do. They live a life of obsession, which is why I think the new kisses are most appropriate. Personally, I like it when such things go along with the lore.🙂 I know that Astarion has never been a good person, this is rather obvious, however, you can show him that there is a better way and then he becomes the best version of himself, or bring him down the evil path and then he becomes his worst version. I don't like all things either, but this is how Larian decided to portray the character of Astarion. It's ONLY a GAME, and the game should be fun and should not be taken so seriously😐. Everyone should play the game the way they like. How we play the game should not have a negative impact on our daily lives and no one should be judged for how they play the game. It's crazy that people are insulted and judged for how they play a GAME.
@@16_shiliu I only want to mention that I love your heart felt comments and analysis of Ascended Astarion , as an AA fan myself I understand exactly what you are describing and feel very much the same as you do x
I think the players who like Astarion evil do realize that, actually. What they object to is Larian's heavy handed moralizing and removing their character's agency. I didn't ascend Astarion but I understand their frustration. You'd think they were making this game for kids instead of adults, the way Larian talks down to their audience. Also, who are these kisses even for? The people who play EVIL characters don't like it because it makes their character look like a wide eyed naive maiden. The people who romanticize AA obviously won't like it. The only people who seem to like it are the people who smugly proclaim that AA is a cautionary tale to those who dare to enjoy evil paths/romances in games, and that redeemed woobie bad boy spawn Astarion is so superior. Maybe Larian should give spawn Astarion more kisses if they love him so much, instead of antagonizing AA fans.
@@pilotg2075 nah, I think y'all are taking a video game way too seriously tbh. Nothing about AA screams "this is a man willing to share power" so maybe go with a more suitable evil partner to RP
@darthmango It's not about him sharing power. It's about them playing their character the way they want, which you'd have gotten if you actually paid attention to anything I said.
@@pilotg2075 yawn, they're just scripting their characters to act in character. You'll just have to play around that. This is like playing evil and complaining that Wyll or Karlach leave and the negative impact it has on your game experience.
@@darthmango Yep, exactly. Larian chooses to moralize to the audience in BG3 and tell people evil is bad, which would make more sense if the game was for children, not adults who should already know the difference between fiction and reality.
It's so bad, you have no idea. Save me, Marazhai. Marazhai save me.
The dynamics are so bad that I'm insanely glad I don't care about bg3 anymore. Compared to RT, characters are written horribly poorly. Not that this is news to me though.
It's like, the contrast is so strong it makes me sick. Why are dynamics so bad? Why do Larian give up dynamic of two villains? Why is Tav a victim and not a co-conspirator, and why do they make choice for player by adding a static "horror" animation on they face? I have no idea. But I recommend that anyone who loves good writing and is looking for a villain romance play Rogue Trader. Because it's so much better than that. And no owlcat didn't pay me to do it.
I know some fans are excited about this update, but this seems like a spit in the face. At the release of the game, ascended astarion had a completely different tone and different facial expressions. They changed literally everything.
By the way if this is an attempt at "domination" it's super cheap. Also the kneeling moment should have been a feature of the romance scene, not a permanent event. That's my opinion.
I'm just glad to have discovered a character that is 2000 million times better written, without prejudice and imposed morals from the writers.
You said it better than I could.
I've had a bad feeling that Larian was going to patch in content like this that makes it clear they intend for the Ascended Astarion romance to be a bad ending for Tav. I'm not surprised, but I am disappointed that they're going this route and not leaving it up to player interpretation.
Even if I don't mind the new animations of kisses with AAstarion, I understand and fully share your thoughts. AAstarion is not a well written character: it is a set of dissonant and inconsistent ideas based on the prejudices that the authors apparently have on the players and the character himself. The thing is very saddened because AAstarion would have a great potential, potential that seems to have been forgotten because for the authors the most important thing, apparently, it is "to treat badly" players for a choice that, according to them, should not be done but that they have given you the possibility to do.
If I think of dialogues with AAstarion, (especially the one during the final party or in the epilogue in which he asks you what you want to do together) and to the last love scene with him, I find these kisses a bit exaggerated. Although bad and dominant, AAstarion has always shown some sweetness and predilection for the TAV because it is his "Consort" his "treasure". I like him to be dominant, I like that his kisses are a bit aggressive, but with these kisses it seems to be completely lost the meaning of being his consort, the person who makes him feel really complete, despite the enormous power he possesses (words to the party). And always as you say, the thing that I despise most in these new kisses is the terrified expression on TAV.
My TAV is an accomplice of Astarion, he loves AAstarion and loves this dynamic of sub / dom: he is a dark urge, he likes violence... seeing him afraid by Astariion has no sense.
And like you I'm slowly losing the desire to play Baldurs Gate, just because I start to notice and not to endure this sort of "judgment" in a game that boasts to give freedom of choice. Perhaps things in the future will change, the kisses have always modified ... but for the moment I don't feel completely happy and satisfied.
@@bex.92 My opinion: he should have been a completely different character, based on the first act and early access info. Then, as with Gale, they decided to rewrite him. Hence such odd moments, with the drastic changes being most noticeable in the third act. In AA's case, the third act literally cancels all your relationship progress in the second act. You get no reward, only punishment for your actions that you in theory did for his sake. Why add a path where you will only punish players? It's a mystery to me.
The problem with kissing is that it degrades your character. Like I said, it's cheap domination. It could have been done completely differently to show Astarion's obsession, how Tav is important to him and how much he fears losing them/obsessed with them/etc. But they showed it completely differently. Add to that the phrases that again hint at bartering. And then asking for a kiss on the knees? There are no words for it.
I don't think they're going to change anything. This update wasn't necessary at all. They should have added a kiss or hug in the epilogue instead, because AA is the only one that doesn't have that kind of action. It feels like the developer is trying hard to make you a cheated victim, and it's very annoying. Basically discourage evil romance and even discard the idea that your character can be evil.
The only thing I liked was the fixing of the brain scene. I'd say the brain ending is the best option right now for AA romance.
I haven't played Rogue Trader. Most of what I've seen of Marazhai and his romance arc has come from your videos.
It seems like his romance is very deliberate? That's not the word I want. It seems like, you know what you're consenting to. That Marazhai is honest and up front about it. If that makes sense. Am I wrong about that?
Marazhai is unapologetically an evil villain, but the Dom/sub dynamic in his romance arc doesn't feel like it's there to demonstrate that he's evil, but because he enjoys it.
(I don't know if I'm making any sense. I'm struggling hard at putting my thoughts into words today.)
They published an article saying what Astarion truly was , even Neil Newborn said that Ascended Astarion is Astarion.
It's unfortunate that it doesn't take into account if your own character is evil,it does not make sense for my psycho durge to be scared. While it does paint a picture for a "good" Tav ,it does not fit an evil character who he would be more secure with.
The worst part of these kisses is Tav/Durge's facial expression. Larian should not be forcing a negative facial expression during these kisses. It absolutely ruins any kind of immersion or roleplaying. Specially Durge! Durge loves pain, she'd love if Astarion bit her lip.
I will agree on the point that Tav should not automatically have a terror face, as some people are into that and would have a more sultry face. Making that choice for the player takes away from how we feel and places a feeling that we may not feel onto our character.
This isn't the first time this has happened. If you're playing as Durge, the narrator says at the end that you regret about death of the priestess Selune, which seems silly to me. Firstly, it's a decision for my character again. Secondly, after rejecting Bhaal, I chose to "stay evil" or something like that. So why regret?Larian is constantly giving your character feelings that maybe don't fit into your personal canon.
@@nyloth I can agree with that. On my previous run, at some point I was speaking to the emperor and the narrator implied that I was sad that I wasn't 'getting enough attention' from him, I was NOT feeling that in the slightest nor was my character at the time. 😅
@@nyloth My Durge didn't regret anything. Perhaps the priestess, but not for regret. She was for forced to choose: obedience or punishment. My Durge was surprised that Astarion himself was surprised because she let him sacrifice 7000 souls for his ascension.
I agree 😂 but only because in no feasible reality am I saying no to this man, let alone not WHOLLY anticipating what he..ascended or not--has planned for Tavs lucky lil ass.
I am absolutely a simp and I feel zero shame for it 😂
He says kneel? And I am sitting there EAGERLY awaiting a whole damn di--
@@nyloth Apparantly Durge feels bad about Alfira too....for some reason.
Another issue with patch 6 regarding AA is the new line "You're my favorite." Favorite what? Favorite spawn? It seems like they're trying to imply favorite spawn. But he doesn't have any other spawn that we know of so it makes 0 sense. Even if he did make spawn, they're people he doesn't know.
I didn't really put a lot of weight on it, because he may indeed have other consorts in the future. But in this situation it's really inappropriate because he doesn't have any "others" at the moment. It feels like the developer is trying to poke us in the nose with "look YOU are ONE of many, NOT special". For some reason they don't poke at Tav's mortality in case Astarion spawn. huh
I feel like these kisses were made to placate the crowd that hated how AA was treating Tav in the epilogue. They want him to be an abuser and that’s that. There can’t be an evil power couple, Tav/Durge can’t be into the dom/sub vibe, there can only be abuse. It’s a bit disgusting when you think about it.
I don't even think AA ever had a full blown dom/sub dynamic, they were just bits of fanservice. I think Larian realised that people like a dominant Astarion, but they don't understand the dynamics of such a relationship, at all... Some people in the fandom are even convinced that if a character is evil, they can't love or have strong feelings. So I'm not surprised.
@@nylothit’s so disappointing. At least Larian can’t stop people from making fanfics and art. Those can still be enjoyed!
Too much pandering if you ask me, the in crowd needed everything to be black and white and that is what they eventually gave us :(
@@AA-ph5dj That is the only way I will be enjoying Astarion from now on, I don`t even want to hear about patches etc from Larian anymore. They have an agenda and people like me are not the target audience.
@@fortheloveof306others have said elsewhere that Larian made a role playing game, but they don’t want us to role play this route. I agree with them. They want this to be a hard “bad ending” for all parties involved. What other romance is this controversial? I mean, you can romance Minthara as a male and have a decent relationship despite how her culture treats men. If the rules can be bent for her, why not for AA? Why can’t Larian let players have fun with their evil routes? (Let’s be honest, Larian completely shafted evil aligned campaigns on a whole.)
As an AA enjoyer the only thing i dislike is that our tav/durge looks "scared" which simply wouldn't be the case for most people who actually want to romance this man...idk I may be in the minority but I do like the new kisses, although if they can make Minthara more gentle and loving, I don't see why they can't do the same with AA
I’m with you on that sentiment. I don’t get why Tav/Durge has to look scared. My Tav would be enjoying herself.
@@AA-ph5dj honestly same lol
Honestly they should make it where u can change the facial expression cause not everyones tav/durge is terrifed of ascended astarion especially dark urge 😅
If the dominant and slightly sadistic part of Astarion's personality had been explored better before the ritual in the dark novel in any way - yes
If the whole story of Astarion wasn't made up of fragments and confusing ideas so that the philosophical idea of the story could be reasoned with in some way - yes
If Tav's face was playful and happy - yes.
... And there are a lot of "ifs" to evaluate this story.
Certainly Astarion is not himself when make by different hands with different ideas at different times.
Writing with one hand "Dark romance with a villain" with a single male-evil and the other hand "Abuse and look how wrong" is absurd.
Write a complex neutral-evil character, give him a story (at least somehow) to think about from different sides, then say "look evil is horrible and isolating" is absurd.
Isolation from players who prefer great, complex evil.
I absolutely agree with you. It's as if the developer doesn't think the player character can be an evil guy at all.
I’ve stopped playing BG3 now (the fandom and developer toxicity towards AA was too many nails in this coffin) but I will check out Rogue Trader - thank you for the rec! ❤
I literally came straight here when I finally saw the new updates after busying about for so. Fucking. Long because this channel is the only safe-ish place I could think of to express my opinions as someone who liked the Ascended ending (since any other space I knew of prior seemed to have all shut down) and there’s nowhere for me to even express my opinions on this topic without fear of getting mobbed by a bunch of gloating self-righteous pricks.
For the past month, I’ve been super preoccupied with rushing to finish applications to a university program I’ve long wanted to go to before the deadline, and I was so happy to finally be done with all the stuff I was busy with and get back to playing the game. When I saw that Larian wrote that they added new dynamic interactions with companions etc, I was so excited… until I went in and saw *this*. I literally felt my back go cold and had no idea wtf was even going on.
It just felt like they stepped on whatever nuance and depth this route had in favour of fulfilling the self-gratifying 2D, there can only ever be one road to healing, and that’s if the person abandons all their prior goals and wishes in favour of pleasing your high-horse sense of morality bc you’re only “equal” if the other person has objectively nothing so they could start all over relying on you POV. Oh and, if you think taking any other route isn’t so bad, then screw you, you deserve to and can only get abused narrative. 90% of the ppl playing this game are already going off on this to condemn, shame, and morally witch-hunt those they don’t agree with.
For even Larian, the supposed third-neutral-party, to go along with this is like a splash of cold water, a slap, a spit in the face. I feel like something I found precious and even took the initiative to hide away in order to let everyone else be happy only so I could bring it out in private during moments when I’m in need of comfort was snatched from my arms, stomped on, and crushed beneath the heel while I’m being mocked by one of the very few parties that were supposed to remain neutral (at worst, bc that’s the bare minimum they’re supposed to do as professionals) who were the ones that gave me this in the first place.
It feels like after getting fucked over and told “f u” by family and life in general irl everyday (along with such a vast majority on the whole damn internet that has even less place dictating my decisions, thoughts, and feelings than my goddamn family), I’ve been told to go fuck myself by literally one of the last things I thought I could ever get betrayed and abandoned by. A fucking character.
A fucking character that I thought I could return to in my moments of vulnerability bc how the hell could a character possibly crush my trust into the dirt like every other person in my real life?? Well Larian decided to prove me wrong, and I’m genuinely contemplating abandoning this game I set aside a week of food to buy bc what even is the point of playing now?? If I wanted to go and get gaslit, shamed, and abused I could just open up video call with the relatives whom I’ve been trying to avoid for months now. I didn’t need to pay for this.
Yeah, totally understand your feelings. Also, a lot of fans feel exactly the same way and I think all these people on Twitter who are "excited" about the new kisses were never AA fans. Otherwise they would realise how bad and black and white it looks. A game with choices that doesn't actually give you a choice is ridiculous.
This update wasn't even necessary, they did it for nothing. I wrote feedback after the epilogue about adding a kiss for the epilogue dialogue. AA is the only one who doesn't have some sort of romantic interaction in that moment. But now I feel like they never planned on making it. With every patch they reinforce more and more the "you're the victim and he's your tormentor" stance, not letting the player choose their position. I really don't like this intrusiveness, which, by the way, wasn't there before! Here's the worst part. They changed material that looked better and made it worse.
Punishing the player for a choice they themselves gave! Unthinkable. "You can play evil in our game," - with tears in your eyes.
Some of the AA fans made a survey to then send it to Larian as feedback. You can take it if you want to. But personally, I don't hold out much hope that they'll listen.
I partially gave up on the game after an interview where they stated that "emptiness is the result of an evil path". And since I started playing another new crpg, I've experienced a wild resonance from the writing, and couldn't go back to bg3 without a modicum of scepticism.
I was just lucky that by the time they introduced this update, I had already found a character I liked more. I'm sorry you're experiencing this. Part of my fear is what other patches might bring to bg3 and what the game will look like after 6 months.
@@nyloth Your quick response has been such a huge comfort you have no idea. It’s so hard to not feel so alone in this situation when majority of the people speaking about this online are gloating and laughing at your misery, and pretty much all channels of communication with other AA fans have been shut down.
It really doesn’t help how Larian’s inaction (or action in this particular case) has basically been a silent concession or even encouragement towards the already terrible bullying behaviour most of the fandom have towards anybody who doesn’t automatically jump onto the “AA is evil and abusive and if you don’t believe that then you’re delusional” train.
It’s exactly as you’ve said, no AA fans would like these changes, and the only ones who are happy about it are the ones who are insistent on the whole “he’s become abusive” narrative because now they’ve “been proven right” by the official party.
Like I mentioned, the least thing Larian could’ve done as professionals was to keep silent as they’ve always have done if they wanted to avoid backlash (while the more moral thing to do would’ve been to step in and speak up against the bullying in the fandom a long time ago, but let’s be real, I think everyone has long given up on any expectations of that), but giving exactly what would make the already aggressive majority exactly what they want to see is has essentially given them the ammo they need to completely verbally open fire on those who don’t agree with them.
Larian as a studio has utterly disappointed me, I don’t even want to bother putting up a fight because their stance has already been completely displayed with this final action of theirs. They intend to go along with what majority of players desire to see/hear, all prior intent and characterization be damned, and the already suppressed minority can just go F off bc they’d earn more money by buttering up the majority of players in the long run.
I think that’s what chills my heart the most on top of the fact that the changes itself were actually super triggering… it’s the fact that by ignoring and going along with the unrestful social environment in their fandom, they’ve essentially let everyone know that it’s okay to open fire because the rest of us don’t matter. The cherry on top of this whole messed up cake is that I can’t even just ignore the whole community politics and just bury myself into my own game in private bc Larian has basically left me no way to even continue playing this game.
Something so many people don’t realize is that just because they have a mental and physical aversion to something, that doesn’t mean it’s for sure something awful and wrong that everyone in their right mind would have the same aversion to. I actually got so physically repulsed the first time I went down the spawn route that I immediately save-scummed like how so many spawn fans like to say they do for trying out the AA route. Now, I can’t go down either route without seeing something that would trigger a physical reaction, and I can’t even reload saves I especially made in previous campaigns to give myself a bit of comfort when I’m miserable.
Unfortunately I haven’t found another game yet that suits my tastes exactly as much as BG3 had, so I’m still temporarily stuck with no way to move on. But even if that’s the case, I don’t plan on opening and playing the game anymore. After all, isn’t that exactly what they and the rest of the community want? For us to all go F off so they could pander and indulge in their black-and-white, morally high-horse fantasies? Larian has made it explicitly clear that they don’t care or want us to play their game, so I won’t bother to stick my hot cheeks against their cold ass.
@@16_shiliuI honestly think Larian doesn't care about fandom. They're only thinking about profit and marketing right now. Since everyone around them is discussing romances and companion interactions, adding something like this is the best marketing. But they don't care about the feelings of the few fans who liked AA. Unfortunately, it's a business.
I've also already said that the public opinion of one of their writers who accuses the player of "misunderstanding the character" and "sexualising" it is just unacceptable.
There is an actively thriving purity culture in the bg3 fandom. People just don't perceive nuance. Larian saying "you can't like a villain, and villain = abuser" only indulges that position.
I could suggest you play RT, on the other hand visually it's a completely different game, and Marazhai is different from Astarion.
But I think what would help you is switching to any other fandom and completely isolating yourself from the bg3 fandom. I could see some of AA fans trying to embrace new kiss and "mitigate the consequences" but in the end they were destroyed by the behaviour of the fandom.
Either way, don't waste your nerve cells on this. It's really not worth it.
@@nyloth that’s what I think so too, Larian just doesn’t give a damn about their fandom environment and only intends to pander to the majority for the sake of long-term profit. Original intents, characterization, and feelings and opinions of the minority of players be damned because what do we matter in the face of bigger profit.
I genuinely suspect that the main person behind writing these new interactions is that same writer who assumes that everybody who chooses the AA path must be thinking the only way they’d be thinking, and that’s that they’d be doing it for the dom/sub kinks. I’m lowkey surprised that writer hasn’t already learned their lesson that not everybody thinks the way they do (aka, their decisions must be based off of kink vs no kink) after receiving backlash last time, but then again, someone who thinks they could accurately group hundreds of thousands of people into such a shallow way of thinking wouldn’t have the awareness in the first place.
And yeah, I’m basically just searching around for a new game to get into rn. Because as long as BG3 continues to go down this path of… I don’t even know what to call it, perhaps “purity-culture-pandering” to borrow your words, I don’t see myself putting in any more of my time and already worn-out-from-irl heartache into this game.
I’m looking into RT (and Marazhai skdjsksjk) after seeing you recommend it a few times in a couple places (and I trust your taste!!!) but I haven’t settled on a decision so far bc Google hasn’t exactly given me more in-depth answers to questions I have about this game yet (I’m mainly tying to figure out how RT’s story, graphics, battle, and character customization are since I’ve got pretty high standards for those as an animation major… Q-Q).
@@16_shiliuYeah, totally understand your point on this one. RT is a regular crpg in the graphical sense, that's why I thought it wouldn't work for you. Bg3 is a next level turn based game. I think the only thing that will come out in the next few years that will be similar in terms of graphics is new Dragon Age. x_x
As weird as it sounds i am grieving right now because of these animations. The moment i watched them it instantly destroyed my love for character, maybe even the game. I waited for patch 6 for my second pt and wanted to replay my first character but more evil plus aastarion. The joke is on me. I don´t know anymore what larian wants to proof with their constant changes to the ascendant romance but i still care, sadly. I want do the romance anymore until (hopefully) they change the animation, only the friendship path. I don´t know who makes these decisions at larian but congrats you did it! Thank you for ruining a beloved character for me because you had to push you opinion on me!
(I am sorry for being dramatic here. Just had to vent a bit.)
It looks like many of us AA fasn are in the same boat, I would like to think Larian is watching and might consider fixing what they broke and that is our trust in the character. Still now I feel somehow free, free from an obsession with a pixel character... he broth positive changes in my life but it was still an obsession and now I am free which is bitter sweet to say the least.
I felt ill watching it really. Again, THIS ISN'T because 'oh he's EVIL, DUh' ITS BECAUSE if I am playing an evil-bloodthirsty bhaal child, I shouldn't be scared/timid.. hell I should be just as much enjoying and biting and bloodlicking, you know? If CHOICES matter, why are we -forced- to be default good in our characters reactions? Give us an option to choose a set of reactions then if they don't want to be dynamic and have no alignment-system based thing. Its immersion breaking and pointless... maybe if they were so hard on hating Twilight so much and trying to ruin vampires, they'd get WHY some of us are annoyed.
Moved on from this rubbish as well. IF I ever played the game again, that trash stays friendzoned. Its what they wanted anyway.. they never wanted you to like the character, hence why you can do so many horrible and cruel things to him. So this is what we get, as usual. Man, take that abusive writing and emotional manipulation garbage elsewhere.
I'd like to try Rogue Trader, but I have such a hard time getting into Warhammer40k.. trying to play Mechanicus cause the soundtrack is amazing.
Apparently they wanted us to fix him. Even added children to the ritual (what a cheap trick by the way), just so we would stop and think about it!
I started playing RT with absolutely zero knowledge of Warhammer 40k. There's a handy guide in the game, though I'm still learning the specifics of this universe.
@@nyloth I can say that Mechanicus has been a fun turn-based strategy, interesting visuals and atmosphere. If RT has an in game guide, that makes me way more inclined to pick it up sooner rather than later. Thanks for the info. :) At the very least I know you get a proper evil path for it. I always just like having both cause its a treat to replay twice to see more story/lore you wouldn't have the first time.
I wanted to see Bram Stoker's Dracula in the Ascended Astarion, but i got this. Thank you, Larian. May be Gale God is now me choice.
It's more like being a default victim than being a default good. I guess writers try to tell us that Ascended Astarion will always dominate over us, giving us no choice to be the abusers/assholes/dominating in the Ascended relationship but... I dunno, Ascended Astarion is kinda cringe lol
@@winterviveca5976 Not really. They fixed the evil ending scene with the brain. Now you don't hypnotise Astarion and he stands next to you when you're sitting on the throne. It doesn't feel like he's dominating in this situation. But then again, there are so many holes in the narrative that I don't see how to construe this at all. Also, there's nothing wrong with dominance as a fact, it's just being presented here in a disgusting way, from a certain angle.
Ну зато те самые психологи из комментариев порадуются 🤌Сами анимации выглядят неплохо (но колени, я просто ору), но да, это испуганное выражение лица... Почему не дать выбор: хотите играть жертву, пожалуйста, есть же такие опции в диалогах, но нет. У самой желания возвращаться в игру не было, но я вижу это и представляю свою ТС в этой сцене, и, да поможет нам Баал, испуг это последнее, что она бы испытывала. Я понимаю там обычные Тав, но Соблазн вообще никак не вяжется с этим выражением. И в итоге мы имеем с одной стороны -- добрячка спавна или вот это вот. Еще пара патчей, и лариан прямым текстом на пол экрана скажут, что вознесение - это плохо, а вашим злым отыгрышем мы можем подтереться. Грустно, потому что вознесенный Астарион был наиболее близок к тому, что я ждала от романа еще с раннего доступа. По сути только Минтара подходит моей героине, так что, наверное, настало время изменить свои игровые предпочтения в романах))) Благо, она мне нравится.
Что еще забавно: они добавили пару строчек в диалогах с Горташем, что в принципе можно подтянуть к романтике (я одна из тех, у кого они были любовниками в прошлом в моем каноне, да), и если они в итоге короткими шажочками дойдут до того, чтобы запилить роман с ним, смотрите, как они его сделают либо добрячком, либо предателем, потому что они очевидно не знают, как прописать роман между двумя злодеями и сольют даже эту динамику.
Увидела еще ваш комментарий про сожаления в финале и вспомнила, как я сама недоумевала с этой сцены. Изобель одна из множества жертв по ходу игры, и моя гг тоже сделала этот выбор осознанно, потому что награда стоила этого в ее понимании (все ради победы). И тут внезапно в конце эти сожаления?.. В принципе вся эта тема с тем, что отказ от Баала = теперь ты хорошая, это так странно. Представляешь, идешь всю игру, выкашиваешь поселения, ломаешь судьбы, но стоило один раз сказать нет папке, так все, теперь ты на светлой стороне по мнению игры и жалеешь о содеянном зле
Я думаю, что если бы на лице (чуть не написала РТ всё крыша поехала) Тав/Дуржа была улыбка, то реально можно было бы воспринимать это как хорни игру между любовниками. Но эта напуганная рожа, господи помилуй...
Горташ хороший персонаж, который тоже бездарно слит в конце, к сожалению. Думаю, максимум, что они могут сделать, это не убивать его и заставить стоять рядом с вами с троном. Сильно сомневаюсь что добавят полноценный роман.
Вот да, с новым патчем и сценами с Вознесенным А какие-то смешанные чувства. В интервью и диалогах, как и по сюжету часто говорилось, что А скорее персонаж с серой моралью, а не злодей. А с новым патчем он уходит в одну из двух крайностей: либо слишком добрый, либо слишком злой. Причём ещё и прямо таки чувствуется как АА упивается своей властью над Тав/Дурджем и нравится унижать и делать больно. Что в принципе как-то вообще не вяжется с самим персонажем. До этого то не был таким деспотом. Откуда оно все? Учитывая, что в интервью также говорилось, что Вознесенный А все еще тот же Астарион, только без маски...
Похоже времена с поцелуями лорда Астариона закончились 😅
@@nyloth улыбка или может злость, да что угодно, но не этот испуг(
на горташа сказался вырезанный контент, потому что будь в игре верхний город, его роль была бы куда шире явно, что тоже грустно, он ведь даже не предал союз с гг, а просто так тупо умер. Если честно, после этих патчей я уже и не хочу роман, мне достаточно фанатского творчества...
@@sonarana_Ларианы в целом не старались сильно с отыгрышем злодеев. Как человек, который постоянно играет за дроу Ллос, ещё и паладина Ллос, я не могу перестать кекать с того как мой герой фанатично готов защищать «низшие расы». Лишь пара язвительных фраз есть и все. Таким макаром можно было вообще Ллос лоялистов не добавлять.
А мне сами сцены нравятся, но испуганный вид Тава в этот момент - выглядит странно. Типа почемуууу, она же сама это выбрала, логично, что её должен устраивать такой вариант)
ну видимо разрабы подразумевали этим другое. в целом поцелуй, который они украли у Карлах, неплохой. но опять лицо такое же напуганное и недовольное. поцелуй с кровью мне не понравился небрежным движением руки, типа втф. ну и колени... bruh
@@nyloth ну у них получилось очень странное видение Астариона лорда, поэтому на романе я всегда оставляла его вампирским отродьем. Слишком не вяжется его изначальное поведение с поведением после вознесения. Меня от этого триггерит и его "my favorite little pet" звучит для меня дико. В противоположность тому же Маражаю, с которым это смотрится в целом логично и полностью вписывается в общую картину романа)
@@Sapfyra358 вот для меня наоборот. Изначально Астарион планировался испорченным персонажем гедонистом. Поэтому образ Лорда и такой исход идеально ему подходил. Его поведение очень вяжется с этим. Другое дело, что его поведение и отношение к Тав не вяжется вообще. Тот факт, что он стал Лордом, к тому же с нашей помощью, не должен был влиять на отношения таким образом. Но увы. Это как если жрать мозги ради Марципана, а потом получить от него отворот поворот. Деградация отношений в данных условиях не имеет смысла. За старания нет награды. Вы жертвуете чем-то ради Аста, но не получаете никакой награды, и это кажется мне убогим сценарием.
Астарион называет питомцем до Вознесения. Как минимум 3 раза, и при определенных условиях может назвать pup. с: Фаворита раньше не было, это тоже считаю минусом. Не имеет смысла, когда у него нет других партнеров в данный момент.
@@nyloth я насколько понимаю "испорченым персонажем" он задумывался изначально, но потом это всё переиграли и весь сценарий перекроили. Поэтому у меня он в текущей интерпретации воспринимается как жертва абстоятельств, а не какое-то злое зло. И к концу игры (в моем случае) Он вообще становится уже больше положительным персонажем, более мягким, спокойным и адекватным.
P.S. за два прохождения на романе с ним ни разу не слышала от него обращения "pet, pup" и т.д. Кроме как после вознесения.
@@Sapfyra358 бордель до ритуала и на вечеринке после рощи.
Мягко говоря разочарована новыми поцелуями. Допустим у меня нет предъяв к поведению Асти , но почему гг ведет себя как испуганная овца, для того же соблазна это ппц нелепо, она явно его не боится и отвечает колкостью на колкость, а тут вообще мимо персонажа. Пусть она закатывает глаза , когда встает на колени ( типа подыгрывает ) пусть раздражается, когда он ее отталкивает. Но тут какие-то хейтеры пробрались и сделали 2 отстойные сцены с поцелуями. И мне вот интересно, а кольцо защиты разума, которое нам дает Омелум поможет против контроля Асти?)))
кольцо ничем не поможет, но пока у вас в башке червь, то контроль все равно не действует. я думаю основная проблема в том, что многие люди представляли себе другую динамику для этой пары, в отличие от той, которую представляли сами авторы...
@@nyloth да в принципе было норм, эти сцены никто не просил делать. Теперь придется кринжевать и делать вид что их нет 🤡 но чувство от романа с Асти вообще испорчено
@@sova9485 да уж, я обожаю вампиров, просто невыносимо, можно сказать. Но авторы этих сценок ухитрились испортить все впечатление об этом вампире, мда...
Очень ждала вашу реакцию на эти "поцелуи" и полностью с вами согласна.
Казалось бы, добавили всего 3 анимации, а насколько же они похерили всё представление о персонаже и романе с ним 💩
Возносить Астариона не перестану, но буду делать вид, что этих анимаций не существует 🤣 Остальное меня устраивает процентов на 98.
Да, у меня тоже смешанные чувства 😅 Как-то слишком злобным его сделали, хотя даже намеков на это не было.
Возносить и проходить концовку залпом - мой вариант, тогда будет без абьюза и лишних унижений, ужаса и непонимания в глазах Тав/Дурджа.
После «тру хардкор бдсм» Маражая, роман с вознесенным Астарионом выглядит как «50 оттенков серого». Уж простите.
Повторюсь, что ИМХО, у Аста вообще не должно было быть такой динамики. Я не знаю зачем они её добавили с 500 патчем. видать чтобы толпу в твиттере порадовать.
@@nylothсогласна. Эта динамика не имеет смысла никакого после всего, через что они прошли, и уж тем более в отношениях с Урджем, который врагов голыми руками в клочья рвёт.
Я безумно рада, что наткнулась на ваш канал, то что вы описали под видео, буквально то, что думаю я - БГ3 запорот в хлам, и если акт 1 ещё работает, то, чем дальше, тем сильнее все ломается. Спасибо Совокотам за Маражая, да и вообще за прекрасных компаньонов, фактически в любой игре.
И вообще хочу ещё добавить, если то, что с Астом делают Ларианы, своего рода нравоучения, то хочется им посоветовать, делать рейтинг 12+ и выпускать игры не для взрослого сегмента. Думаю уж люди в 20-30 лет, могут спокойно играть в игру, где им не будут тыкать в хорошее и плохое. Да и вообще понятие хорошо/плохо относительно, даже беря в пример золотую клетку, очень многих людей такое устроит , вполне искренне
Думаю, что у Лариан изначально были неплохие идеи, по крайней мере исходя из датамайна всё было гораздо интереснее и морально серо. Например, выбирать между ковеном ведьм и лордом вампиром, было бы точно сложнее. Но почему загубили все идеи? Я понятия не имею. Возможно для массовости. Да, совокоты прям радуют. Жаль, конечно, что во втором пасфайндере мне только девушки зашли.
@@nyloth Да, эти идеи я помню, собственно они и заинтересовали. О, то что они вырезали ковен, это вообще было неожиданностью. Про диалог с Гурами я вообще молчу. Да и собственно Казадор, которого отвязали от основного сюжета. Честно сказать, зачем, я сама не понимаю. Возможно вы и правы, что для массовости. Правда то, что они делают сейчас, не знаю, как будет влиять на эту массовость, что даже люди, кто радовался до этих новых анимаций, уже начинают по тихоньку отворачиваться.
По поводу совокотов, думаю, хорошо, когда в игре хоть кто-то нравится как ЛИ. Просто в Балде к примеру для меня кроме Аста просто нет ЛИ -нравятся некоторые компаньоны, как друзья, но ЛИ для персонажа в них я не вижу... в Диване вообще никто не заинтересовал =*D
@@akaimikadzuki ну тут ещё играет роль отсутствие верхнего города, я верю, что роль Каса могли понефрить и из-за этого. Но это уже домыслы.
Да, у совокотов просто персонажи интересные, даже не как ЛИ. Мне в РТ все по своему нравятся, даже убивать никого не хочется. У каждого своя история, нет похожих мотивов.
В Бг3 есть те, кто прям откровенно бесит. Помимо Аста на раннем доступе мне нравилась только Лае и Минтара. В итоге первая в конце превращается в дипломатку (или получает плохую концовку лел), а вторая была на релизе сломана к чертям. Ну и как ЛИ я тоже их не вижу, потому что женские персонажи мне нравятся с точки зрения подружек х)
И мотивы в БГ3 в основном одинаковые. Лае + Шадоу = откажись от богов. Аст + Гейл = откажись от силы. Арку Уилла я вообще не поняла, у Карлах что-то вроде "цени момент/живи по полной", учитывая что на релизе она всегда умирала. У Минтары просто нет личного квеста. В любом случае всё это сходится под "откажись от того, чего желаешь, потому что оно тебе навредит". Даже ДОС2 не была так узка в своих арках.
@@nyloth Честно, у меня с Касом такие же ощущения, как и теория о том что Орин= Нижний, Горташ= Верхний вполне логична. Каз же как помню, был прямым врагом Орин и некого Мясника, но находился конечно в Верхнем.У меня есть слабая надежда, что в каком-нибудь Готи эдишине, верхний вернут, но учитывая что они накрутили, сильно не верю, что даже если его вернут, вернут или хотя бы частично вернут того самого Астариона. Помню, ещё раньше натыкалась , что в датамайне во время ЕА в верхнем городе был маркер квеста "коррумпированный судья"
Последний забег я наконец то взяла Минтару без резни, и этому, кстати вполне рада была, она не плоха, но контента в край мало. Так же мне был и Халсин интересен, своей историей, что он повинен в падении Кетрика, а не тем что сейчас, поэтому по кд отправляю его Орин, что б придать его существованию, хоть какой-то смысл =D С Лаэ полностью согласна, её смягченние, для меня странное...При этом сами Лари говорят (к счастью) что Минтару смягчать -ни-ни, а простите, смягчение гита - это нормально?
Про мотивы полностью поддерживаю, и хочу добавить, тут какая-то странная история выходит, если утрировать, то у всех персонажей, есть властная фигура над ними, при этом, по изначальной задумке, отношения с этой фигурой, довольно агрессивные(либо скрытая/ещё не раскрытая будущая вражда) + каждому эта фигура снилась. Тут мне кажется была какая-то идея, что конкретно вот эти ребята попали в одну компанию не просто так, но видно после идеи вырезать Дейзи, это просто осталось хвостом, который никто решил не переосмысливать.
"Откажись от того, чего желаешь, потому что оно тебе навредит" - вообще скажу, что подобная навязанная концепция, для ролевой игры, с отыгрышем.... (про отыгрыш в бг это конечно отдельная история) подобное не допустимо, т.к. в любой роли, у игрока должен быть баланс между тем, что из содеянного тебя привело к тому или иному, причем в сероморальной опять таки обстановке а не черно-белой конструкции.
Вспоминая даже менее ролевые игры как ВЕдьмак 3 или ДАИ -хоть и вариативностей там мало, но тебя там не стараются учить, что надо спасать детишек, а не дядю алкаша или что головы рубить это плохо, нужно в лучших традициях Наруты всех бегать и примирять.
Я вчера почитала про degrading. Нашла сайтик соответствующий. Это dom/sub классический. То есть хотела унижений? Получи унижений. Ну ок, а если я хочу получать их с довольным лицом? Я ж хорошая девочка! 😂 У меня смешанные чувства. Хорошо, что хоть в фанфиках я могу натворить все, что душе угодно и исправить/объяснить то, что тролли Ларианы наворотили. А то б совсем тяжко было.
Это не дом/саб, уж поверьте мне. Дом - это лидирующая позиция. Тот кто ведет за собой, а не тот кто унижает вас, особенно против вашей воли. У Тав с Астом нет никакой договоренности в отношении этого, его доминация становится резкой и ставит Тав перед фактом. Его фразы намекают на бартер. Опять же, хотите посмотреть на правильную дом/саб динамику, чекайте роман Маражая, который может быть как сабом так и домом, и который прежде чем действовать объясняет вам "правила игры". Потому что с ним вы участник игры, а не жертва. И учитывайте, что во втором акте у Астариона нет и намека на подобный тип отношений. В нормальной дом/саб динамике, даже если вы унижаетесь, то делаете это по своей воле и в удовольствие. Что-то я не вижу удовольствия на лице Тав. Да и все реплики в романе АА сейчас делают Тав жертвой, в этом и проблема. Вы не соучастник. По крайней мере Лариан это так прописали и показали эмоциями на лице вашего персонажа. Это так же, как и эта фраза в эпилоге про "свободу", как будто писатель пытается вам намекнуть "на самом деле у вас всё плохо". К сожалению.
Короче если Лариан таким образом пытались показать "доминацию", то как я и сказала, это дешевые приемы уровня 50 оттенков.
@@nyloth согласна. Где consent? Я подумала, что он случился, когда Тав встала на колени первый раз. Мол, ну все, я согласная. Тогда ладно. Но опять же, а где чего обговорили? Стоп-слово? Выхухоль! Что нельзя? Ставить на колени при всех, я все-таки лидер! 😂🙈
На унижение есть кинк и достаточно распространенный, но он не превалирует у аудитории фанатов ААстариона, судя по всему.
Просто складывается ощущение, что сценарист(ы), ответственные за Астариона, начитались срачей между двумя лагерями, и встали в позу Астариона-отродья. Не то что бы я сам не там, никогда не понимал, как можно, не моргнув глазом, сказать, что после вознесения там какая-то великая любовь и пр, но теперь вижу головы людей, которые за динамику пары двух жадных до власти злодеев, и за них обидно, потому что поцелуи вообще-то горячи, если бы не это лицо ГГ, словно у игрока, впервые увидевшего Матку в ДАО. Лариан почти дали мне повод пройти с вознесением и перестать ворчать на то, что есть гораздо больше более важных вещей, достойных работы над ними для улучшения игры (поддержка модов, спасибо Лариан за патч, который прекратил мой забег на Доблести преждевременно; выбор спутников в пачку после ухода из лагеря и их роспуск при входе в хаб (как во всех ролевых до этого...)), почти получилось :D
P.S. Как в той поговорке про жену, проститутку и гейшу, расставьте Дейрана, Маражая и Астариона по своему вкусу @@nyloth
Стоп-слова только для продвинутых пользователей. Может, лет через сто Астарион прочитает книжку об этом.@@selelebrin
@@vesperatmahatia2731 да нет просто конкретно в динамике Тав/Аст он не отслеживается. Не того рода унижение здесь происходит. Как я и сказала, унижающийся должен получать от этого удовольствие, здесь этого нет. Дейрана я вообще не люблю, лел. Зато мне нравится Тристан. Да и Камелия и Вендуаг во втором Пасфайндере просто лучше.
Главное не количество анимаций, а их качество... У АА сделали все 3 унизительные в плане отношений. Это даже не имеет никакого смысла, с каких пор он стал внезапным садистом?
Ни с одним из компаньонов у ГГ нет такого лица, полного ужаса/отвращения/злости/непонимания.
Я так ждала этот патч с обещанными нововведениями и когда увидела, у меня лицо было, как у ГГ во время этих сцен. И немой вопрос "это чтооооо?" и "за чтооооооо?".
Я как будто заказала обед из 3х блюд, а мне принесли кем-то пережеванную кашу и сказали "bon appetit".
Лицо ГГ изменить на нейтральное или довольное и ситуация заиграет другими красками. Или привязать сцены к моменту обращения: "нежнее или ладно, пусть будет больно" и уже игрок выбирает как хочет видеть свой отыгрыш.
Сцена от Карлыча, самая нейтральная из 3х представленных...
Эх...спасибо Ларианы за плевок в душу...
Верните порядочно беспорядочную сволочь, которой чхать на всех, кроме любовного Тава/Дуржа. Пусть самоутверждается за счёт остальных вместе со мной "side by side" и "аs the World Falls Down". Я помогла тебе, какого черта ты шлепаешь по лицу и толкаешь, как псину побитую.
Лучше было без этих нововведений вообще...😢
I feel like Larian heard people asking for the A!Astarion kiss with Karlach for our char and got the wronf impression 😅
In this selection, Karlach's kiss is the best ...
@@nyloth If you watch Karlach's kiss with free camera, it is not. Unfortunately.. It seems Tav is even raising his arm to Astarion's arm to stop him. The best scene is indeed the "kneel down" scene in my opinion, at the point, where they are starting to kiss, because you can see that Tav is enjoying it. But really, all kisses show no love, no touch, no joy. Tav is a soulless vicim of abuse, his fists are even clenched., he is almost entire standing there like "don't touch me!", wanting to reject Astarion, but do not dare to touch or push him away. That is really hard Sadistic personality disorder, what they are showing..
@@ElisaSternberg I don't know what they're trying to show, but I know it hasn't happened before. The kneeling scene is inappropriate in and of itself. Begging for a kiss on your knees? That's over the top. It's stupid to do that kind of kissing. Why doesn't our character just break up with Astarion then? As long as you have a tadpole, that's a possibility. This update just skews the entire epilogue, in which Tav/Durge were quite happy with their situation. Plus, in the epilogue, Astarion says you are extremely important to him, but with those kisses, he's squeamish about you. Something doesn't add up. It feels like they wanted to add some dominance because people are squealing about it. They did it badly. But if they actually decided to drastically change his tone, that's even worse. Keep in mind that Karlach kiss was previously used by Astarion before his Ascension.
@@nyloth Yes, they didn't do themselves or the players any favors with the kisses, for me the main problem is that the kisses are not consensual, i.e. Tav is unhappy, despises Astarion, is afraid of him, is portrayed as a victim of abuse. There is no love between the two. And you're right, Tav would never ask for a second kiss and would break up with him straight away. These kissing scenes contradict not only the romance scene where Astarion and Tav love each other and touch each other, where you also can chose between "be gentle" and "let it hurt", and Astarion listen to it, but all the other conversations, for example when Astarion says: "Of course I'll do (drink the blood of Tav) and you'll drink mine . I can't wait to taste your lips, after you've tasted me" - Tav smiles a lot after this and is happy. And now he is afraid, scared and uncomfortable with Astarion biting him? This all doesn't make sense at all. When I watched all kisses with free camera, I was shocked, how bad it really is. They don't dare to touch each other. Tav is always clenching his fists and try to resist, but is afraid to do so. Yes, in the Karlach context it might be look good (and we only see one angle), but here, in this context, Tav is looking scared, rejecting Astarion, having a sad look at the end, it really doesn't look good. And for those who play Karlach, it's a slap in the face also.. Astarion has a kink for SM in act 1, so for myself, I think dominance and consent SM is okay and would fit him. But not like this, where Tav is shown as a victim of abuse. This is loveless abuse, nothing more, unbearable to watch Tav. Who knows, what their intention was, to make people feel sick and uncomfortable, to please players who chose the good path, didn't know Astarion's complex character and story, or they hardly know what healthy SM is or someone of the team has a strong personality disorder. Otherwise I can't explain their intention. And by the way, thank you for all your videos about Astarion, I really enjoyed them.
I imagine the rest of the party wstching you kneel to get a kiss like 😮
Шел 2 день после патча, и я скорее согласна с вашим мнением по поводу нового АА. Не понимаю, почему многие в восторге от новых сцен. Для меня это до сих пор шок и непринятие.
Вознесшийся Астарион стал скорее похож на Касадора, несмотря на то, что этого в нём никогда не было, стал злым, его забавляют страдания Тав/Дурджа и страх, и отношение не как к консорту, а как к собачонке. Только вот зачем ему с песиком делить власть и трон? Тем более допустим, если Дурджу нравится эта игра, то почему не дать игроку выбор? В сцене обращения был выбор между "будь нежен" и по-хардкору. А здесь такое чувство, будто Тав эта игра не нравится, страх и обида на лице. До этого можно было строить теорию о том, что АА будет злым со всеми, но не со своим "сокровищем".
Может, конечно, хотели явно подвести к тому, что отношения с АА будут такие же как у Астариона и Касадора, и Тав/Дурдж начала это понимать...
А может и нет. Возможно и я чего-то не понимаю... но для меня такой поворот на 180 в отношениях АА и Дурджа кажется слишком неприемлимо...
Я просто хочу понять почему так или просто развидеть 😅
Я предполагаю, что те, кто в восторге, вообще никогда не были фанатами АА и просто по фану смотрят на эту концепцию. Я зашла и в АА конфы и на форум в нужные темы, и ситуация там всё же 50/50. Визжят только в твиттере. Но они в сами отношения героев не углубляются, им просто "вау бдсм дэдик", хотя, как я и сказала, если это они так доминацию показывают, то это дешево.
Вот, верно вы говорите. Раньше было ощущение "я исключение" и "пока он руинит другим, а не мне, всё хорошо, я его сокровище" вроде того. В конце концов в эпилоге он говорил, что Тав его дополняет, а не просто тащил за собой как раба. И в целом, если не прожимать эти убогие тригерные фразы, в стиле "я хатю свабыды", то не было этого ощущения жертвенности вообще. Но сейчас во всех трёх анимациях буквально выражение недовольства на лице. Навряд ли это баг или ошибка. Выглядит как намерение.
Почему они так сделали я тоже не знаю. Возможно гнут свою ветку "вы жертва в этой ситуации". Но это убивает весь ролеплей.
@@nyloth вот да, и ролеплей и отношения и сами персонажи как-то теряются. До этого отношения строились на факте исключительности, Тав его сокровище и будет рядом, когда тот будет править миром. А возможно и поможет его захватить и бросит к ногам АА. А теперь Тав/Дурдж скорее игрушка и это от каждой сцены прямо так и чувствуется, АА наиграется и бросит ее в ту же самую псарню, которую сам ненавидел, чтобы глаза не мозолила.
Отношения с АА были всегда интересны своей глубиной, да это была возможно не такая любовь от которой бабочки в животе или щенячья привязанность Спавна, это были отношения на общем прошлом и общих целях, общих мотивах и т.д.
Сейчас, это отношения злодея и жертвы. Даже в сцене с обращением, когда говоришь ему: "пусть будет больно" он делает больно потому, что Тав/Дурдж его просят об этом, у него нет такого выражения лица, как в сценах с поцелуем, когда он явно и в открытую упивается болью и страхом ГГ. В сцене с обращением чувствуется любовь и страсть, в сценах с поцелуями - жестокость и отвращение АА к Тав.
@@Iviariantis ну я прям не знаю насчет жестокости и отвращения. Опять же скажу, добавить Тав улыбку в этих сценах и это будет просто игра между любовниками, потому что каждый доволен своей ролью. Но из-за гримасы ужаса это выглядит не так.
@@nyloth согласна, здесь они перебощили.
Жестокость, имелась ввиду все эти пинания и отпихивания, а также страх в глазах Тав, что скорее сводит весь процесс не к игре любовников, а к игре хищника и его добычи.
Поэтому после этих сцен возникает неоднозначное чувство и жалость к ГГ, которой не особо нравится подобное отношение и поведение АА.
Такое чувство, что специально выставили АА злым к Тав, чтобы сделать это прохождение однозначно злым.
В общем, как итог, новые сцены с АА мне не зашли... потерялась вся магия отношений и БГ3 захотелось отложить... 😅
@@nyloth В общем не знаю, от патча осталось неприятное послевкусие. Возможно они это исправят, а может и нет, но ощущение никуда не денутся. Словно наплевали на фанатов АА, подчеркнув, что это плохой выбор, плохая концовка и Тав/Дурдж будут жертвами этих отношений.
These new scenes for AA are great! Finally AA begins to fit the story and moral that Larian wanted to show from the beginning. 😃
I still think his character is inconsistent, but at least it's cleared up a bit. Now the only problem is that many scenes don't fit together. As if AA had a split personality.
And that look on Tav's face.😑 Player should have a choice about how his character feels in this situation, because I find it hard to believe that an evil character will get scared. It doesn't make any sense.
At least AA fans got 3 new kisses. Spawn didn't even get a 1.😢
I’m sorry, but I just think it’s absolutely mad to say that it’s the story that Larian wanted to show from the beginning.
From the get-go, Larian wanted to portray Astarion as an evil character, and the morals paths you could take with him were essentially different shades of grey (i.e. release 7k vengeful, literally bloodthirsty spawn into an environment that was already having difficulty surviving, don’t release and essentially end 7k lives that Astarion owes, make use of the situation and possibly live with the guilt that you did, etc etc). The initial writer for Astarion’s character had always labelled his endings as good vs evil, and with time everybody just started calling it good vs bad, when really it’s an extremely black-and-white way to view the mental journey of a morally grey character with so much depth.
Your words have basically inadvertently proven this point: now none of his scenes/interactions fit together anymore bc the way he behaves in his new dynamics completely contradict the attitude he portrays in every other interaction that’s already been written. AA and the PC’s relationship was never meant to be just plain “abusive”… they’re co-dependant and not supposed to be the prime example of a standard healthy relationship between two healthy individuals, but plain abusive is just the narrative that majority of the fandom like to go with for… idk, sake of convenience to believe spawn ending is definitely the best path to choose?? I’m not even sure how the train of thought works for that.
Nobody that likes taking the AA route wanted these new interactions. None of us asked for this. The only ones who are happy over them are the people who love to condemn and degrade those who like AA by saying “you’re delusional, he doesn’t love you, you clearly like being in an abusive relationship” (I’m not even being dramatic here, the times I’ve seen these exact words being used have exceeded what I could count with two hands).
We’d rather have nothing at all than what’s essentially just new content that people already bullying us would use as “evidence” to feel more self-assured in doing so, and completely destroys a character that we love.
@@16_shiliuWhere did you get the idea that it was supposed to be a evil ending and not a bad one? (I'm seriously asking, is that what Larian said somewhere?🤔). From what Larain said from the very beginning, it was just supposed to be his BAD ending. Every character has a good and bad ending, why should Astarion be an exception?🤨
From what I understood, it was supposed to be an abuse story from the very beginning. A good ending to break the cycle, a bad ending to continue. That's why AA was inconsistent for me from the very beginning.😑 Many scenes did not fit together. The beginning was ok, but the later the more I saw scenes that didn't fit the character of the evil vampire lord he should have been. As for me, the new scenes are just a continuation of what I saw in the beginning (the conversation before the transformation into a spawn, the transformation scene, etc.)🙂
A healthy relationship? How was something like that supposed to be a healthy relationship?🤔 Tav convinced Astarion that he was right, that he was afraid and that power and strength were the only right way out, thus turning him into another Cazador (I don't mean the treatment of Tav just the worldview), which is just another vampire for whom the most important thing is control over others (including Tav). This was not meant to be a healthy relationship from the beginning. If one likes it then ok, but I really don't understand where the notion that this is a romantic relationship between two villains came from. It would have been nice if there was such an ending, it would be awesome🥰, but it was never meant to be that way. 😒
I've also seen that AA fans like the new kissing scenes, but I guess not everyone though. The only thing that is strange to me is Tav's face. It doesn't fit me a bit with an evil character who specifically pushed him in that direction.
Of course, this is my feeling based on the scenes with AA and what Larian said about AA and Astarion in general. As for me, it's just that Larian wanted to convey in a very clear way what they had in mind when creating the character of AAstarion. 🙂
@@RedTab0 that’s where I’m trying to disagree with you, that the writers never intended to be so black-and-white because this game is supposed to be one filled with many moral dilemmas with no right answers in the first place. You’re often stuck between a rock and a hard place, and no characters ending is supposed to be picture perfect because that’s just reality.
Example:
Shadowheart can choose between letting her and her parents suffer through a lifetime of chronic agony in order for them to stay together and make up for lost time with what they have left, or she could choose to set them all free from Shar’s hold (which is what her parents wanted) with the price of never being able to see them again for as long as she lives (they could reunite in Selûne’s realm after death, but if they never broke out of Shar’s hold it’s a likely possibility that they’d end up in Shar’s realm which is basically purgatory because Selûne can’t reclaim their souls).
You can let Karlach “be the motherfucker who saved the world” and permanently cool down her engine but live on as a mindflayer (which is the decision she wants and is happy with, but there is a whole debate on whether she’s lost her soul and is really still Karlach), or force her to not only live on as she is but to also return to the very place she hated most and risked her life to leave for an indefinite amount of time, all for the speck of hope that she could eventually find a way to fix her engine there.
There’s also Wyll forever selling his soul, damning him to an eternity of being a slave to devils in Hell in exchange for the life of his estranged father who is vital to rebuilding the city, or to finally break free of the pact but potentially lose not only his father who he still never got the chance to reconnect with but also the Grand Duke of Baldur’s Gate, the very political backbone of the city.
So no, Astarion isn’t the exception. This whole game was never supposed to be so clear-cut, and (no offence intended, I’m just stating my feelings as they are) I’m frankly genuinely shocked that anybody would actually think that (though I suppose I shouldn’t be, considering the widespread “purity culture” in this fandom). I can’t send any links because UA-cam automatically blocks any comments that include a link to another video/source, but it’s been stated multiple times in interviews and streams with the original writer of Astarion (there are more than one writer that works on characters’ scenes, and the one writer who said that they see his Ascension ending as just demoting you, him, and your relationship into a kink is only ONE out of MANY writers who worked on his scenes, and they aren’t exactly specifically in charge of Astarion’s scenes either) that the endings were labelled good vs evil.
And your observations about how many, if not most of Ascended Astarion’s key scenes such as his pre-spawn conversation, post-spawn conversation, transformation scenes etc, don’t align with this black-and-white point of view exactly proves this point. In all of them, AA was never abusive towards the PC… sure he was evil, but as we all know, that literally is part of the territory of being a vampire lord. As Neil Newbon himself stated in one of his livestreams, AA is basically Astarion’s truest self because he no longer feels the need to hide, he no longer feels vulnerable and Neil especially decided to show that by making Ascended’s body language more operatic vs Spawn’s body language more theatrical (I am literally using his words) so it’s not like what AA wants and needs suddenly changes.
If he loved the PC before, he still does, hence why he always uses “we” “us” and even “you” before “me” because as he’s stated many times prior, he sees and wants the PC to be a part of his future. Does this necessarily mean the relationship is healthy? No, and I never even said it was (I even explicitly stated that the relationship isn’t meant to be a standard healthy example of a relationship so please work on your reading comprehension). But at its core, evil Astarion wasn’t meant to just = all things bad = abusive and can’t have anything good like love. It’s like how some criminals who committed atrocious crimes could still be a very loving family man and father-figure to his family but still bomb a bank with no remorse. Human nature has never been so black-and-white, and I am genuinely concerned if people out there above the age of 13 actually think so.
It wasn’t just AA being originally intended to be evil from the beginning, but Astarion as a character himself, and I think most of the fandom chooses to ignore that because it’s easier to think of an abuse victim = pure and innocent when that’s not the case (hell, Astarion literally says that “the problem of what Cazador has done is that he did it to ME”). I as an abuse victim can tell you that I in no way consider myself a good person, and I don’t think that detracts in any way that I’m also a victim of abuse. Believing that way is extremely problematic and is precisely why so many people don’t seek help because they don’t think they “qualify” as victims (I speak from experience).
Finally, I can say as an AA fan that I haven’t seen a SINGLE ONE who actually likes the new scenes. Any of the people that did were either those who always campaigned the idea that AA = can only be abusive and cheered at the fact that they now have “evidenced” to continue condemning and degrading people who don’t share their opinions, or just the handful of people who like angsty-kinky dynamics and aren’t necessarily fans of AA. Assuming anybody who likes AA are automatically into getting degraded/abused is precisely the same mistaken mentality that the writer who wrote AA’s “on your knees” scene had. It’s not only wrong (because I can tell you most of us do NOT like getting abused) but extremely problematic (many felt physically sick at these new scenes you think is the perfect embodiment of AA, and by extension what those who prefer the AA route should like) because so many people are hurt by the consequences of this thinking.
The issue here now isn’t just with the abrupt change of a beloved character, but the twisted mentality of the game’s community and now the studio too. I’m not even this angry because a character I like has been butchered to this state, but because now not only do I have to deal with people irl just assuming what they like about me and consequently treat me like sh*t, now even the producers that gave me one of my few small sources of comfort has handed a knife to an already aggressive massive number of people on the internet to amplify their witch-hunt against people who have done nothing to them, for what… satisfying a twisted sense of moral superiority?? Pardon me for the crude language but my disgust, after staying silent for so damn long to keep those that like to think the world is a good vs evil movie and assume they’re the protagonists that thus have the right to make real people who don’t fit in their fantasy feel like sh*t happy, has reached a point where I don’t even want to hold back anymore.
@@16_shiliuI've heard that Astarion has several writers and maybe that's the problem.🤔
Let's not forget that this is still DnD and at least in part Larian is sticking to the lore. I understand that this is not how the world works, but let's not forget that this is just a GAME, and the vampires in DnD are black and white and are as AA was portrayed in the last patch. Vampires in DnD don't love like humans do. They live a life of obsession, which is why I think the new kisses are most appropriate. Personally, I like it when such things go along with the lore.🙂
I know that Astarion has never been a good person, this is rather obvious, however, you can show him that there is a better way and then he becomes the best version of himself, or bring him down the evil path and then he becomes his worst version.
I don't like all things either, but this is how Larian decided to portray the character of Astarion. It's ONLY a GAME, and the game should be fun and should not be taken so seriously😐. Everyone should play the game the way they like. How we play the game should not have a negative impact on our daily lives and no one should be judged for how they play the game. It's crazy that people are insulted and judged for how they play a GAME.
@@16_shiliu I only want to mention that I love your heart felt comments and analysis of Ascended Astarion , as an AA fan myself I understand exactly what you are describing and feel very much the same as you do x
Man, it really feels like people didn't realize AA is just Cazador 3.0
I think the players who like Astarion evil do realize that, actually. What they object to is Larian's heavy handed moralizing and removing their character's agency. I didn't ascend Astarion but I understand their frustration. You'd think they were making this game for kids instead of adults, the way Larian talks down to their audience.
Also, who are these kisses even for? The people who play EVIL characters don't like it because it makes their character look like a wide eyed naive maiden. The people who romanticize AA obviously won't like it. The only people who seem to like it are the people who smugly proclaim that AA is a cautionary tale to those who dare to enjoy evil paths/romances in games, and that redeemed woobie bad boy spawn Astarion is so superior. Maybe Larian should give spawn Astarion more kisses if they love him so much, instead of antagonizing AA fans.
@@pilotg2075 nah, I think y'all are taking a video game way too seriously tbh. Nothing about AA screams "this is a man willing to share power" so maybe go with a more suitable evil partner to RP
@darthmango It's not about him sharing power. It's about them playing their character the way they want, which you'd have gotten if you actually paid attention to anything I said.
@@pilotg2075 yawn, they're just scripting their characters to act in character. You'll just have to play around that. This is like playing evil and complaining that Wyll or Karlach leave and the negative impact it has on your game experience.
@@darthmango Yep, exactly. Larian chooses to moralize to the audience in BG3 and tell people evil is bad, which would make more sense if the game was for children, not adults who should already know the difference between fiction and reality.
Разные поцелуи выпадают рандомно? 🫤 Я пыталась проверить но пока мне выпадает только второй вариант
да, совершенный рандом
Да, рандомно. Везет вам, мне вот постоянно выпадает третий 😂 который меня вымораживает