Interesting, didn't realize they had a basically plug & play rail line ready to go there. You could easily refurb the track, install signals, build stations, get some Stadler FLIRT DMUs and have a service spun up within a couple years. The real question is how do you link this by rail to Denver. I highly doubt UPRR is going to allow a bunch more passenger trains on the Moffat subdivision, and routing it up the Arkansas valley would make for a long trip from Denver and would likely necessitate completion of the Front Range Rail first.
As someone who has been to Eagle Country and a railfan it's sad that the condition of the Tennessee Pass line and I'd be great for passenger service to come back but with Siemens venture sets instead of multiple units for for capacity
@@CedarLakeRailfanner There definitely is room for an inter-city through running service. But the stops are so close together in Eagle that a frequent DMU service with more vehicles would be useful. A Glenwood to Leadville (and beyond) would be more traditional heavy rail.
@@OffGridUrbanist ok and also since Amtrak is planning a service to Pueblo so I'd be cool for a service to cover the entire Tennessee Pass and there's also the Royal Gorge Route tourist railroad in Canon City but that's only a tourist train though
@@CedarLakeRailfanner Pueblo to Grand Junction will eventually be connected. One or two trains a day. With more frequent local service on different parts of the line. Like service between Canon to Leadville and Leadville to Glenwood Springs.
EMUs/DMUs handle grades better than locomotive hauled. IMHO Stadler FLIRTS or GTWs would be a good choice for this line, they can purchase them initially as DMUs or bi-mode which opens the possibility of electrification in the future, even if only the main commuter line in the valley is electrified the bi-modes can run that on the wire then run on diesel for the run to Leadville. Also Stadler has a much shorter backlog than Siemens does. Current wait on Siemens for Chargers and Venture sets is around 10 years.
Looks good, although the $300m estimate is undoubtedly low. It would not be surprising to see the $1b figure to get the tracks up to a useful standard for pax service, install signals + PTC, put in stations/maintenance facilities, and acquire rolling stock.
Multiple units are a good choice as they have better performance than loco hauled trains This also means you can get away with steeper tracks (4-5% if you really pushed them) whilst still having good acceleration so trains can reach more mountainous areas In the long term EMUs would probably be the best solution but DMUs are fine for an introductory service
This line is a good case for bi-modes. Start the service with DMUs, electrify the commuter line in the valley and run the extended service to Leadville on diesel. Stadler FLIRTs support diesel/electric bi-mode and even if initially purchased as diesel only can easily be converted at a later date due to the FLIRTs modular design. And a 4 car FLIRT set will have only slightly less passenger capacity than the RTD silverliners when they run 4 car, and that is only because RTDs are configured for high density seating.
@@shopdog831 heavy rail doesn’t mean “heavy” and light rail doesn’t mean cheap. Plus with trains heading to Glenwood Springs and possibly Grand Junction they will be mingling with freight trains and heavy weight Amtrak trains on the main. So heavy rail is the right way to go.
@@adambuesser6264 this a Eagle county specific system designed to work for the western part of the state. There was a time (and will again) when Eagle county airport was the 3rd most busy in the state after Denver and the Springs. People live out here, people fly out here. Not every project is a Denver centric solution. Eventually there will be a better east-west ski transit axis, but we need to get small projects off the ground with existing infrastructure to build trust with the people of both ski towns and their visiting patrons.
Yes mountain limousine transport, there are shuttles / limousines that go from the Denver airport to different places in the Eagle valley. I don't know how much it is now but it used to be around 85 bucks a trip.
The rail line from Denver to Glenwood Springs goes through Dotsero, which is not far from Gypsum and the Eagle County Airport. If/when we get trains from Denver to Grand Junction, there would be an easy connection into Eagle valley at Dotsero. Some day there could even be through trains from Denver to Minturn.
@@GnurpsYrag Only if UPRR allows more passenger trains to run on the Moffat Sub. Colorado would likely spend hundreds of millions in litigation and years in court to force UPRR to sell the ROW to the state.
Would love to do that. Extend the line along the old grade south of Montrose to Ridgeway. Then punch a tunnel into Telluride. Sad thing is we used to have that. A bit of a circuitous route, But then we tore it up in the 50s and 60s because cars were the future... Let us not squander what’s left of Our rail inheritance
Lived in the eagle valley for about 7 years. A large portion of that I didn't even have a car. Your arguments are kind of superficial. First off the bus stays on highway 6 most of the time not I-70. second of all it's one of the best public transportation systems I've ever been on, it's usually on time even in the snow. The only way a light rail would be profitable for anybody in that valley is if the population of the eagle valley increased to a level comparable with Colorado springs proper. The only time that there may be enough people in the valley to make a light rail profitable is during the winter, meaning the light rail would have to significantly reduce its operating cost during the summer, or eat into its profits. There would also be an increase in expenses because of plowing the tracks as well with specialized equipment etc, when the bus system can just use the roads that are already being plowed by the state. While I do love trains and I've walked up and down the train tracks in the eagle valley for years wondering if it would be better than buses, in the end there's not enough people. Also you mispronounced Minturn. Drunk bus for the win! Ps. Now if you propose a monorail and habe a catchy song for the people of the valley to sing, you might have something.
Great video - really complete package you’re proposing, and so obvious once you lay it out like that!
Really interesting vid. Considering how successful RTD rail has been, I'm interested to see more projects like this all over Colorado.
I FUCKING LOVE TRAINS GIVE ME MORE TRAINS
Interesting, didn't realize they had a basically plug & play rail line ready to go there. You could easily refurb the track, install signals, build stations, get some Stadler FLIRT DMUs and have a service spun up within a couple years. The real question is how do you link this by rail to Denver. I highly doubt UPRR is going to allow a bunch more passenger trains on the Moffat subdivision, and routing it up the Arkansas valley would make for a long trip from Denver and would likely necessitate completion of the Front Range Rail first.
As someone who has been to Eagle Country and a railfan it's sad that the condition of the Tennessee Pass line and I'd be great for passenger service to come back but with Siemens venture sets instead of multiple units for for capacity
@@CedarLakeRailfanner There definitely is room for an inter-city through running service. But the stops are so close together in Eagle that a frequent DMU service with more vehicles would be useful. A Glenwood to Leadville (and beyond) would be more traditional heavy rail.
@@OffGridUrbanist ok and also since Amtrak is planning a service to Pueblo so I'd be cool for a service to cover the entire Tennessee Pass and there's also the Royal Gorge Route tourist railroad in Canon City but that's only a tourist train though
@@CedarLakeRailfanner Pueblo to Grand Junction will eventually be connected. One or two trains a day. With more frequent local service on different parts of the line. Like service between Canon to Leadville and Leadville to Glenwood Springs.
EMUs/DMUs handle grades better than locomotive hauled. IMHO Stadler FLIRTS or GTWs would be a good choice for this line, they can purchase them initially as DMUs or bi-mode which opens the possibility of electrification in the future, even if only the main commuter line in the valley is electrified the bi-modes can run that on the wire then run on diesel for the run to Leadville. Also Stadler has a much shorter backlog than Siemens does. Current wait on Siemens for Chargers and Venture sets is around 10 years.
@@mrvwbug4423 I guess because all the axles on dmus are powered but me a slight foamer prefers locomotive hauled
Looks good, although the $300m estimate is undoubtedly low. It would not be surprising to see the $1b figure to get the tracks up to a useful standard for pax service, install signals + PTC, put in stations/maintenance facilities, and acquire rolling stock.
That 300 million would just be Minturn. Not even going up the pass yet.
Multiple units are a good choice as they have better performance than loco hauled trains
This also means you can get away with steeper tracks (4-5% if you really pushed them) whilst still having good acceleration so trains can reach more mountainous areas
In the long term EMUs would probably be the best solution but DMUs are fine for an introductory service
This line is a good case for bi-modes. Start the service with DMUs, electrify the commuter line in the valley and run the extended service to Leadville on diesel. Stadler FLIRTs support diesel/electric bi-mode and even if initially purchased as diesel only can easily be converted at a later date due to the FLIRTs modular design. And a 4 car FLIRT set will have only slightly less passenger capacity than the RTD silverliners when they run 4 car, and that is only because RTDs are configured for high density seating.
Your audio levels are a bit low. I'd say double them, if you can, since I had to turn up my sound by about that much, and you were still soft.
Electric heavy rail YES
@@shopdog831 heavy rail doesn’t mean “heavy” and light rail doesn’t mean cheap.
Plus with trains heading to Glenwood Springs and possibly Grand Junction they will be mingling with freight trains and heavy weight Amtrak trains on the main. So heavy rail is the right way to go.
How can visitors from Denver get to these ski resorts without a car?
@@adambuesser6264 this a Eagle county specific system designed to work for the western part of the state. There was a time (and will again) when Eagle county airport was the 3rd most busy in the state after Denver and the Springs. People live out here, people fly out here. Not every project is a Denver centric solution.
Eventually there will be a better east-west ski transit axis, but we need to get small projects off the ground with existing infrastructure to build trust with the people of both ski towns and their visiting patrons.
Yes mountain limousine transport, there are shuttles / limousines that go from the Denver airport to different places in the Eagle valley. I don't know how much it is now but it used to be around 85 bucks a trip.
The rail line from Denver to Glenwood Springs goes through Dotsero, which is not far from Gypsum and the Eagle County Airport. If/when we get trains from Denver to Grand Junction, there would be an easy connection into Eagle valley at Dotsero. Some day there could even be through trains from Denver to Minturn.
@@GnurpsYrag Only if UPRR allows more passenger trains to run on the Moffat Sub. Colorado would likely spend hundreds of millions in litigation and years in court to force UPRR to sell the ROW to the state.
Why not build a train system from Denver to telluride
Would love to do that. Extend the line along the old grade south of Montrose to Ridgeway. Then punch a tunnel into Telluride. Sad thing is we used to have that. A bit of a circuitous route, But then we tore it up in the 50s and 60s because cars were the future... Let us not squander what’s left of Our rail inheritance
Lived in the eagle valley for about 7 years. A large portion of that I didn't even have a car. Your arguments are kind of superficial.
First off the bus stays on highway 6 most of the time not I-70. second of all it's one of the best public transportation systems I've ever been on, it's usually on time even in the snow.
The only way a light rail would be profitable for anybody in that valley is if the population of the eagle valley increased to a level comparable with Colorado springs proper.
The only time that there may be enough people in the valley to make a light rail profitable is during the winter, meaning the light rail would have to significantly reduce its operating cost during the summer, or eat into its profits. There would also be an increase in expenses because of plowing the tracks as well with specialized equipment etc, when the bus system can just use the roads that are already being plowed by the state.
While I do love trains and I've walked up and down the train tracks in the eagle valley for years wondering if it would be better than buses, in the end there's not enough people.
Also you mispronounced Minturn.
Drunk bus for the win!
Ps. Now if you propose a monorail and habe a catchy song for the people of the valley to sing, you might have something.
The rail system is as much for the ski/tourist traffic as it is for the locals.