From what i recall the writer of the episode and/or Frakes wanted the J'nai character to be a male instead of female and that was how it was going to address homosexuality but the network said no.
Hey look, Riker with beard doesn't care about what pronouns you use. Riker with beard cares only about if you can be banged or not. Riker with beard truly embodies the ideals that Starfleet upholds, just as Kirk did in his time.
Its what always pissed me of about stargate. It was like hey check about this alien race and there cool tech.......ow well guess we'll never see them again.
We could have a whole series that goes back and see what is going on with everyone we get to meet once. I always wondered why the aliens from Conspiracy never tried to return.
I think the producers we're very uncomfortable talking about this subject at all, which makes me think....HOW THE FUCK THIS EPISODE GET MADE IN THE FIRST PLACE?!?!
Kind of reminds me of a late S2 ENT episode whose name escapes me. There’s a species that has a third sex which is necessary for reproduction, but the norm is that only the father and mother raise the family, and people belonging to the third sex are second-class citizens who are essentially temporarily loaned to people who want to have children, like books in a public library or something. Trip tries to “liberate” the third-sexer that he meets. The results are quite bad for everyone involved.
Cogenitor Given that the third gender was only 3% of their population it would be impossible for them to be a parent figure to all the kids they helped produce. As I understand it the male female are the biological parents contributing dna 🧬 whereas the cogenitor supplies an enzyme that is a catalyst for reproduction without adding their own dna.
2BitUser Probably they wouldn’t have much in the way of parental instincts compared with the male and female sexes. Phlox starts to mention the catalyzing enzyme, Trip cuts him off much to my frustration. I really wanted to hear what they’d come up with to explain this craziness. But the third-sexer must contribute DNA, or the Z chromosome or whatever you’d call it wouldn’t remain in the gene pool. I can understand why the third-sexers wouldn’t have the same family life as the males and females, but they really do get treated like shit. So Trip just blunders into the norms of a society he doesn’t understand, and makes the situation even worse. Riker does the same thing in “The Outcasr,” but we’re supposed to have sympathy with him. Whereas Trip is rightly called out for what he does. That’s why I think “Cogenitor” is the stronger of the two.
@@aperson22222 If you want a culture to change, you must first understand it. Arguing without context is not only illogical, but also useless. Trip looks foolish because he lacks understanding.
This has changed by the 23 century and in order to have kids the 3rd sex must be a part of your plural marriage. Theres a Novel about an Andorian officer that is 3rd sexed and is called back to Andoria for sexy time with its husband and wife
Well when you take the same basic stories but with the advantage of another round of script revisions I imagine the structure of the story is easy enough to improve.
well in a State centric world, that is literally what various groups try to do, gain power and enforce their worldview and use the various appartus of state to do it, from feminists, civil rights, communist, socialist, lgbt etc. For better or for worse.
I remember being taught in junior high English class that "they" is only for plural. You should always she he or she when referring to a single person. Of course in 2019 many people say "they" is the preferred term but in the past if you didn't know someone's gender you would use "he or she" not "they."
@@LoreReloaded Or maybe my junior high English teacher (who was actually from England) was right and history was wrong. We were also not allowed to say "God bless you" in her class if someone sneezed because reasons.
@@BirdOPrey5 That's why I call out "SCIENCE!" when someone sneezes...and just to see the looks I get from people wondering why I yell that word when they sneeze.
Given the description of current J'nai reproduction. How is their reproductive equipment even remotely compatible with that of a human? Or did Riker just consider that a challenge?
DrewLSsix yea like honestly no matter how anyone feels about homosexuality two penises and two vaginas are not compatible with each other for reproduction.
Cmdr.Riker essentially follows Capt.Kirk's attitude nail all women & anyone who looks or resembles a woman or Riker is the Capt.Jack Harkness of Star Trek. hahahaha
As General Chang in a beta canon game said: The most dangerous aspect of the Federation is their ideas of equality and fairness. They assimilate cultures by opening them up to other cultures. Ideals bleed into each other, watering down their uniqueness, until nothing is left but a bland and conforming culture. Sound familiar?
@@Newie69MK No, it isn't. But change should come from within, deliberately and willingly. If it is violent and uncontrolled, or seeps in from the outside, you end up with a burned out or corroded culture.
I believe that while yes, you have a good point the damage that could caused be interfering in primitive cultures far out weighs the good. you can help the rainforest people with medicine and that but you start giving the smart phones and automatic weapons...
I dont know if I agree in this episodes case. What would the enterprise of federation do exactly, conquer the planet? Change has to come from within. The J'Naii need to work their societal shit out for themselves. Who Watches the Watchers is a perfect example of where the prime directive is a good idea. The Mintakans were doing just fine and accidental exposure to the federation almost ended in disaster for their society. Like Picard himself once said however, "there can be no justice so long as laws are absolute", yet hypocritically on several occasions he was willing to let an entire species die(a far greater crime than letting Wesley, 1 teenager, die) because he refused to consider the PD open to interpretation or flexibility. Now in the case of homeward, lets be honest, the Boraalans would have gone extinct. They only saved what, 18-20 of them? Not enough genetic diversity to survive. The holodeck idea was fine IF they packed every holodeck on the ship to capacity rather than just saving 1 tiny village. But really The PD should have a provision that if a species is threatened with extinction from forces outside their control, action to prevent their extinction should be allowed, with a minimum of interference possible. The enterprise should have packed every cargo bay, shuttlebay, and holodeck with Boraalans and taken them to a new home. Would it interfere with their development, sure, but it's preferable to them ceasing to exist. Theres no logical argument that shaking their view of the universe would do more damage than their culture and species being wiped out. In the case of Pen Pals, they were able to correct the geological instability with a few modified photons. No need to expose themselves, and with all the volcanoes, any locals that saw the photons would likely be brushed off as having seen a meteor or a fragment of ejected lava. The PD is a good rule in general, it's just applied stupidly by the writers too often.
@@Jarsia "What would the enterprise of federation do exactly, conquer the planet? " Provide refuge/sanctuary/asylum to someone who was asking for it. You don't have to upend the local society to give a refugee aid. In fact, that's supposedly one of the exceptions to the PD, is that they are to give aid to those that request it, if it doesn't violate other edicts of the prime directive about non-interference. Sheltering a fugitive is not interference.
@@Jarsia "The enterprise should have packed every cargo bay, shuttlebay, and holodeck with Boraalans and taken them to a new home. Would it interfere with their development, sure, but it's preferable to them ceasing to exist. Theres no logical argument that shaking their view of the universe would do more damage than their culture and species being wiped out" On this, we agree. The idea that cultural contamination is more harmful than extinction, which has been expressed obliquely on the show, is ludicrous. I wouldn't say the PD is a good rule. I'd say it is a good guiding principle. Principles are better than rules, because principles can be adapted to the situation, and often, rules cannot. But even there, the PD, as a principle, obviously needs work.
I think another way to look at it is the Federation might see itself as a the shining city on the hill that by leading by example other cultures will eventually follow.
It goes to the heart of what is meant by tolerance. Does tolerance for the society mean tolerance to allow oppression of a minority or an individual? Did she change her mind or was she the victim of abuse? And if she was abused, did Riker do the right thing by leaving her in the hands of her oppressor? There is so much to unpack with that episode.
4:18 "a type of liberalism that means they won't help or even interact with anyone who doesn't think like they do or hold to their standards" umm... ummm... what? that would be _radicalism,_ the opposite of liberalism (in this case/sense). i know you said "a toxic form of", but that doesn't turn it into its opposite. that's kind of an important difference. and the term "liberalism" or "liberal" is already blurred enough, with everyone pretty much calling those they don't like "liberals" or "too liberal", etc... So it's not even very useful anymore, as it is, let alone if you also start labelling its opposite with the same term, then it becomes completely useless. A word which can mean everything means nothing.
Eh, so are a lot of words. Honestly, the more you try to define how the English language works, the more nonsensical it becomes. Better to just role with the definitions and try not to accidentally say something offensive.
I have not watch this one for a while . Was the Planet of the J'nai part to the UFP ? Riker's action was one of love from my POV . Worf tagging along seem to be a friend aiding a friend need . Now Captain should have removed Riker and Worf from duty even for a short time .
Lore, would you consider a breakdown on voyagers episode “Retrospect”? It’s the episode where 7of9 is convinced by the doctor through hypnosis to believe that Borg nanites were forcefully taken from her resulting in a false accusation that ends the life of the accused. Might prove to be an interesting bookend to this video as in many ways the theme of authority harming the individuals “for their own good” based on their own beliefs are there and perhaps just as pointed, deals with several current day issues as well.
Let's be perfectly clear, here: Starfleet are the worst kind of opportunists: the ones who insist that they are not, with a friendly handshake, a pat on the back, and a warm smile......The Federation would ignore the J'nai literally eating live children to get their hands on navigating "null space". Why? Watch the shuttle visuals again: that's pretty close to how Hugh's liberated Borg ships behaved later on in the series. If this was a gateway to a subspace ship transport network, I could TOTALLY see Section 31 making sure that Picard & Co. were nearby at an opportune moment -- just how many Section 31 agents do you think are on the Enterprise-D, exactly? Guesses? For the J'nai? They'll give Riker a pass, first, for him saving their ship, and second, because they value their people so little, they likely see it as not worth making a stink over, to get their hands on sweet, sweet FedTech.
"They" is a bit flawed, because it's a plural word. So it can't really be used to speak of an individual because it's meant to talk about more than one person. Sadly, I don't have a better idea aside from creating a whole new word (insert Aladin joke here), but I don't think "they" is it. It will create confusion too easily in too many places.
Forest Wells no, they is often used to talk about a single person. It does leave a bit of vagueness in English but with context it’s not exactly unusable, and in other languages contextual cues play a much larger part in communication.
"They" is very problematic. It is fine when referring to a singular unknown induvidual in formal documents, but it cannot really be used in conversation regarding an individual you already know. For example "Riker and Soren had a meal last night and they really enjoyed it", is "they" referring to both Riker and Soren or just Soren?
The only annoying thing about Riker, despite his good qualities, is his tendencies to be some knight in shining armor in stories he was involved in. We get it. You are the good guy. Good for you. You are not the only good guy despite how your episodes paint you like that. That one, he wanted to rescue the sexually ambiguous lady wannabe from her culture of sexual obscurity, an asexual culture. That makes him a hero to us humans, a knight in shining armor. To their culture, he is a champion of perverse values. That is like their culture, as their alien culture (and nature) is not identical to ours but similar, rescuing a pedophile and his child lover, or defending a rapist while giving said rapist an escape to his world, or rescuing a prominent neo-polygamist by taking him and all his wives (from the original to the child brides) to their starship because they share the same values. While I agree with Federation culture, I disagree with Riker's and said alien's actions. One person, one relationship, is well worth the price for good but not worth the price for bad. The radical was not called for. The situation could have easily been resolved amicably. Easily. As a matter of fact, there would be a gain for both sides. Their "perverts" being removed from their culture to join the Federation would make them gain, their planet would win from the Federation shares. It is stupid to try to change a culture of which you are not part of that culture. Change comes from within. It's cool to just plant the idea... nothing more. What Riker did not realize, the idea was already there. That made him stupid.
I am shocked that they just went out in the bushes to make out like that, especially when that one crone was acting so obviously suspicious. Riker is a crazed, skirt-chasing animal, and this woman hasn't been touched in years and has just been subjected to several days of Riker's magnificent charm and even witnessed him engage in a little derring-do. So, understandable, but still shocking.
The Prime Directive exists for a reason, if you expect the Federation to behave like Klingons and conquer those they disagree with your watching the wrong show, just because you think something is right doesn’t mean it is.
Is there EVER a moment in this episode where Riker isn't flirting? Hahahaha it's almost comical how I didn't pick up on it when I was 13 as this was airing.
I would compare it to ST Enterprise Cogenitor. Where human values applied to an Alien race, culture and with major difference in genetics and instincts. The human animal is a small pack hunter. We work best in groups of around 6-8 This small group welcomes individuality because it brings each of our talents into a useful behavior without being too competitive. The J’nie seem to value everyone being the same. So say their primitive instinct was a large herding species. Where their members are actually happier being the same. Also note how Starfleet supports segregated starships. Human majority ships, Vulcan majority ships. I expect it too is because while the Alien species can coexist with each other they have significant differences that may make prolonged interaction difficult for all but the most committed to embrace living a different way.
Considering they ask Riker about his genitals, I think they should've told him (us) about theirs. It seems only fair. Come-on Soren, show us your... thing.
As a trans woman I have a lot of feelings about Outcasts. The problem is that the episode conflates sexuality and gender identity. That was a very common way of thinking about homosexuality prior to the 1990s. It is a very toxic idea that reflects mid-century attitudes towards gender roles more than anything genuinely related to gay identity. Most of GLAAD's earlier educational campaigns focused on stopping TV producers from using that particular trope. Check out Billy Crystal's character arc on Soap for a good example of how media was unable to understand the distinction.
I am not very educated on the matter but I believe the point of conflating was to specifically put straight cis person into the shoes of people who identify themselves any other way. A reversed situation of inequality.
This is what I really don't like about the Federation, they constantly shrug their shoulders and turn a blind eye to the atrocities and bigotry of alien nations because that's just their culture and they think it should be respected. The Federation should never tolerate the intolerant, instead they need to stand up for the rights and liberty of all sentient beings in the galaxy. Hell, this issue predates the Federation entirely. Remember when Trip was punished for treating an alien sex slave as an equal? And then was blamed when the slave decided suicide would be preferable to slavery?
This is where episodic TV lets the viewer down...all it would have taken is 1 or 2 lines of throwaway dialogue in a Picard V.O. to explain why Starfleet was helping them, etc. Don't know that this show could've been a strong 2 part episode, but you could've put plot threads from it in multiple episodes to better explain the underlying themes, if TNG had been serialized.
Well starfleet always claims that they are so tolerant and good that they forget that not everyone wants what they like and you can only join them if you share their point of view. I go that far and state that they might be worse than the Borg
the federation has certain key principals. you can only join them if you agree to those key principals, I don't see anything wrong with that. especially as the federation is happy to ALLY with other nations. Given the federation is essentially a "Union of values" they've every right to exclude planets who don't practice those values from joining. If you don't practice those values you're proably just applying for federation membership to use it.
Ah yeah, "Outcast" the episode where Riker teaches a someone who already identifies as a heterosexual woman how to be a heterosexual woman, that is, somehow, about homosexuality... *rolleyes* And yeah I agree that Starfleet and the Federation were often a bit too cavalier about what their allies did with their subjects. I mean just look at the Klingons and their "subject species"
As we know from real diplomats, it is possible to make deals and help each others and helping people out who are opressed. We see that for example in europe when the EU helps the african states to grow by giving them money, expertise and aid and giving asylum to those who need it. That is a possible forein policy.
She mentions she has "parents", but how do parents or having kids at all even work without gender? This would work better if they all weren't one gender "none" but one gender "Futanari".
I found her situation unfortunate but i didn't take any sides because their wasn't enough information for me to find anything wrong. If you wanna say a race has no gender, i wanna know how that happened, when and under what circumstances then how the race continues reproduction. are they immortals? are they clones? etc. From another outlook, the faction who wants to behave like a particular gender, can be considered "traditionalist" since the planet use to have them. The current evolution might've been a forced one, to eliminate sexual crimes and identity politics. too many unknowns but i did find Rikers actions as a Starfleet Officers VERY questionable.
@Lore, you know the French use the pronoun "one" for the impersonal "on" as a singular reference versus using "they". Just a point of reference as French and English share some common roots and impersonal idea of "one" like "one is not amused" sounds a lot better than "they are not amused". Maybe it's kind of ironic that "one" as individual pronoun is also antithesis to Borg "we" collective, since what the J'nai are is a cultural collective/monolith versus an individual will or ideal.
I'm curious how this was translated into Hungarian. Our pronouns aren't gendered. He, she, they (sing.), it's all the same word: ő And it doesn't even get used, due to the way our grammar works
@@UncleMikeDrop Or so you whine it is because someone else used that construction. But English does actually use 'they,' it was only made 'improper' sometime last century then they wanted to make 'he' the default, then it went to 'he or she' but people do and always have still said 'they' and 'them' when it's someone of unspecified or indeterminate gender. You're just trying to signal hostility cause someone wound you up about it like it's an imposition on you if everyone doesn't fit in *your* imposed boxes.
@@OllamhDrab Yeah and gay used to mean happy. Language changes and I reserve the right to use they as I see fit. We DO have genders all 2 of them so pick one and accept the corresponding pronouns.
An such simple things.. such as errors in simple speech.. much less very important issues is why since we are evolved with Gender we should just accept that and stay that way An assuming she went with him willingly and her people shrugged an said, apparently, good riddance.. bein still commissioned, although they're wrong to tolerating intolerance and barbarism, he went about doin the right thing the wrong way and is basically goin rogue. Especially if we decided screw the commission and tryst to flee with her to parts he hopes are unknown enough he wont be found
Is it bad I can understand this on a more personal level as you have mentioned it being an indirect way of looking at transgender people and their rights?
"Null space," dear friend, is...sadly....Star Trek's version of...wait for it....The Quicksand Trope!!!! You know, based on my watching of television I thought quicksand would be more of a problem than it is. But...if Maxwell Smart, Gilligan and various people on Lassie (I am assuming) can escape it...so can I. After all, like obligatory Nazi themed episodes in Star Trek and that reuse of "The Most Dangerous Game" plot....harmless fun can be had for all!!! P.S. Go watch "Pleasantville!" Lol
Hard to call them intolerant. This is a race that chose to become mono gendered. Throwbacks would defeat what the culture had accomplished. It’s not the Federation’s role to impose its morality on another species....prime directive. How they chose to handle the situation might be seen as barbaric. Considering the time it aired, it was a good way to discuss the issue of homosexuality without being “in your face” about it.
@Adan Druego This is starting to sound like one of those asinine "freedom of speech" rants by people who want to be immune of criticism and responsibility. You can't have it both ways. If you want freedom of speech (and you do in fact have it), then everyone else has the freedom to correct or criticize you if you say something ignorant or offensive. That said, I believe the OP was trying to determine if j'naii like Soren are transgender or something else. Good question because it's not like Soren is transitioning from an assigned gender (they have none).
@Adan Druego Why would you even be here on a Star Trek channel then? The United Federation of Planets is basically a secular leftist utopia that thrives on Communism. Then again, it sounds like you might be a fan of the Terran Empire from the mirror universe.
They and them are plural. Unless I'm talking to a multiple personality, it's awkward. Also. The Tumblr cult is probably the first secular religion from what I've seen.
@@LoreReloaded closest I've figured out, at least not abusing the English language, is you. Because I am addressing you. If someone wants to be a dick about it, then that's when I'll use it. Eye for an eye. Luckily I don't deal with the Tumblr cult to test the theory.
To be honest all this coexist-speech is not really honest. The Federation did try to help dissidents in other societies simple because it either fit their interests or ideology, for example the Romulus. They are tolerant when it fit them, but often they either try to influence other societies in the way it benefits them or are able to look the other way if someone who they need did...less tolerant things. It depends what suits them at the moment. I do not say this is in core evil, but it makes the claim of many "heroes" somehow dishonest. I also have the feeling that Star Fleet itself must be a somehow racist, intolerant organisation, at least as we see it in the films. At first the ranks are highly dominated by American/European people. We see little Chinese or Indian etc. people (I mean people who come from this former nations) in high ranks and they even are not that dominant in lower ranks. This made zero sense in a society where the ability to learn and rise through the ranks should be distributed fair to all, only influenced by meris and abilities. It is always claimed inequality on earth as hunger etc. has been eradicated. Given the fact that in any future earth people from North America and Europe would make just a small portion of the population, I see no in-story explanation that makes sense. Neither are people from other parts of the Earth less able to rise in the ranks (if they grow up under circumstances which gave them the same possibilities to learn - if your schools are bad even e smart person could end up in a low-profile-job, but that should not be the case on the future earth and the colonies) nor are they smaller in numbers (the opposite is the case). It would be a curious case if we only see "western"-dominated ships by accident (and it would speak volumes if this implies that Star Fleet try to build up crews mainly from people of certain former nations). Second we see both crews and commanders dominated by humans. That make even less sense. The humans are a late developed society compared with several of the founding members of the Federation. They started rough after a brutal time of war on their home world. And I do not believe that their numbers exploded, since the typical Federation human family seem to have one to three children - nothing what indicates rapid growth. Surely faster than in the case of the Vulcans for example, but Vulcans live longer. So why are humans so dominant? Are they smarter, have more courage etc.? That WOULD be racist if anyone claims it. There must be some explanation in story, and all possible put a huge shadow on these noble speeches. Most story arcs of non-humans in the ranks is how they learn to be more human in some way (Spock, Worf etc.) - not how the humans become more Alien. How often we see humans live and stay true to the values or religions of an alien species? Even those who were raised in alien way (like the "hero" of Discovery) slips back into human "normality" at least in some parts, instead of perhaps convincing members of its crews to follow Suraks teachings or whatever Alien part of culture they follow. That mean not that I value alien ideologies as superior to human, but I have a hard time to accept that they should be inferior as it is silently implied. And of course the Federation and Star Fleet especially are hard to accept that the values and societies of their rivals are not somehow inferior or wrong, they have just developed different, build by the special histories - both Klingons and Romulus had traumatic events which shaped their society in a certain way, a way no human could understand. But time and again the societies are shown (through the eyes of Star Fleet members) as somehow dysfunctional, and only that members as "good" who move towards Federation (aka human dominated) values.
"The Federation did try to help dissidents in other societies simple because it either fit their interests or ideology, for example the Romulus." Yes, but evertime it comes out, it's kind of a scandal. For example with Romulus. ;) They're not supposed to, but it's a law that is broken by some people some times. Like with any law.
I remember hearing a claim that there was a short lived attempt to make the character male because Jonathan Frakes thought that it would have hit harder for the viewers. I can't remember where I heard that though. Even as a kid I recognized the implied undertones. It was the first time it occurred to me just how antimoral hetero supremacy really is.
I wonder if it's just gender or if it's their sex too. Are these people all the same sex ? How do they procreate then? If this species is sexually 2 different sexes then the single gender thing is kinda useless, it's just similar hair and appearance but this episode treats the woman one of the species different for being attracted to Riker, but if they have 2 sexes then they would already have millions like that who procreate. Gender is more than just jeans and t shirts vs dresses and lipstick but without hormonal and surgical differences, gender is pretty much just expression, fashion choices, and how you wish to be viewed by others and the roles you feel comfortable taking part in throughout society. It doesn't really fit having a sexually dimorphic species that's andro the way it works here on earth with a sexually dimorphic species where occasionally people prefer to be the gender not commonly affiliated with their sex or neither. It's just tv though so it can't be perfect and was more about the overarching point.
@@aperson22222 Okay when I point out one of my friends friends I say "Who are they". I look I get I hate this pronoun garbage too but it's basic English.
I'll be honest, I'm a lil disappointed in Riker (/the writing) in this,he's harbourin a crush on an androgynous person, but god damn that smile an look of relief when it turns out *they* just so happen to be an anomaly and is actually a she. Maybe the time it was written, but I think leaving the anomalous gender out I think woulda made for a more interesting interaction
One of the weakest, forced, contrived and embarrassing episodes is the show. I put it up there with the episode where Riker became a 'Q'. Just Gawd Aweful
Me: so, what is your sexual preference?
Riker: yes
I have know idea what the hell this episode was about for five years later than I knew what they were talking about
To be fair to Riker, "They" can also refer to multiple individuals, not exclusively a single individual.
From what i recall the writer of the episode and/or Frakes wanted the J'nai character to be a male instead of female and that was how it was going to address homosexuality but the network said no.
just imagine what impact this episode would have had if Frakes had got his own way and they cast a male actor in that role?
Could you do a full breakdown on Starfleet and the Federation in general? Sort of a basic assessment of the history and evolving basis?
Hey look, Riker with beard doesn't care about what pronouns you use. Riker with beard cares only about if you can be banged or not.
Riker with beard truly embodies the ideals that Starfleet upholds, just as Kirk did in his time.
I mean, in a weird way, yes. Riker doesn't really give a fuck.
I would have liked to have learned a little bit more about the J'nai culture, but typical star trek we see them once & never again❗😡✴
Its what always pissed me of about stargate. It was like hey check about this alien race and there cool tech.......ow well guess we'll never see them again.
We could have a whole series that goes back and see what is going on with everyone we get to meet once. I always wondered why the aliens from Conspiracy never tried to return.
I think the producers we're very uncomfortable talking about this subject at all, which makes me think....HOW THE FUCK THIS EPISODE GET MADE IN THE FIRST PLACE?!?!
They sometimes gave us another look at races that were interesting enough to enough fans in order to warrant it.
Maybe there are Trek novels with them. I could imagine there are, but I don't know. You could look out for that.
Kind of reminds me of a late S2 ENT episode whose name escapes me. There’s a species that has a third sex which is necessary for reproduction, but the norm is that only the father and mother raise the family, and people belonging to the third sex are second-class citizens who are essentially temporarily loaned to people who want to have children, like books in a public library or something.
Trip tries to “liberate” the third-sexer that he meets. The results are quite bad for everyone involved.
Cogenitor
Given that the third gender was only 3% of their population it would be impossible for them to be a parent figure to all the kids they helped produce. As I understand it the male female are the biological parents contributing dna 🧬 whereas the cogenitor supplies an enzyme that is a catalyst for reproduction without adding their own dna.
2BitUser Probably they wouldn’t have much in the way of parental instincts compared with the male and female sexes. Phlox starts to mention the catalyzing enzyme, Trip cuts him off much to my frustration. I really wanted to hear what they’d come up with to explain this craziness. But the third-sexer must contribute DNA, or the Z chromosome or whatever you’d call it wouldn’t remain in the gene pool.
I can understand why the third-sexers wouldn’t have the same family life as the males and females, but they really do get treated like shit. So Trip just blunders into the norms of a society he doesn’t understand, and makes the situation even worse. Riker does the same thing in “The Outcasr,” but we’re supposed to have sympathy with him. Whereas Trip is rightly called out for what he does. That’s why I think “Cogenitor” is the stronger of the two.
@@aperson22222 You think they're confusing, just read up on the Andorian reproductive crisis.
@@aperson22222 If you want a culture to change, you must first understand it. Arguing without context is not only illogical, but also useless. Trip looks foolish because he lacks understanding.
This has changed by the 23 century and in order to have kids the 3rd sex must be a part of your plural marriage. Theres a Novel about an Andorian officer that is 3rd sexed and is called back to Andoria for sexy time with its husband and wife
The Orville version of this story with Lt. Cmdr. Bortus is more interesting!
THE ORVILLE version with Bortas and Kelly's birthday was better, too....
Well when you take the same basic stories but with the advantage of another round of script revisions I imagine the structure of the story is easy enough to improve.
Orville just took a good idea and made it better, Seth MacFarlane is many things, but his best work is homage.
@@time391 honed probably from years working on Family Guy episodes doing just that
@@DrewLSsix The Orville also has the advantage of the story revolving around a main character and not just a one off species encounter.
well in a State centric world, that is literally what various groups try to do, gain power and enforce their worldview and use the various appartus of state to do it, from feminists, civil rights, communist, socialist, lgbt etc. For better or for worse.
I remember being taught in junior high English class that "they" is only for plural. You should always she he or she when referring to a single person. Of course in 2019 many people say "they" is the preferred term but in the past if you didn't know someone's gender you would use "he or she" not "they."
Your English teacher was wrong .. We have examples and see uses of it dating from the 14th century until todays date.
@@LoreReloaded Or maybe my junior high English teacher (who was actually from England) was right and history was wrong. We were also not allowed to say "God bless you" in her class if someone sneezed because reasons.
@@BirdOPrey5 mother of god..
@@BirdOPrey5 That's why I call out "SCIENCE!" when someone sneezes...and just to see the looks I get from people wondering why I yell that word when they sneeze.
Given the description of current J'nai reproduction. How is their reproductive equipment even remotely compatible with that of a human?
Or did Riker just consider that a challenge?
Who says they were reproducing?
DrewLSsix yea like honestly no matter how anyone feels about homosexuality two penises and two vaginas are not compatible with each other for reproduction.
Cmdr.Riker essentially follows Capt.Kirk's attitude nail all women & anyone who looks or resembles a woman or Riker is the Capt.Jack Harkness of Star Trek. hahahaha
CmdrSloanne Riker believes in the ancient sailors axiom “any port in a storm”.
@@juliankirby9880 good one. hahaha
@@juliankirby9880 more like a girl in every port.
Kirk was following in the footsteps of great explorers, like Commander Charles "Trip" Tucker III.
Lynn Green he started the saying “no glove, no love”
As General Chang in a beta canon game said: The most dangerous aspect of the Federation is their ideas of equality and fairness. They assimilate cultures by opening them up to other cultures. Ideals bleed into each other, watering down their uniqueness, until nothing is left but a bland and conforming culture. Sound familiar?
Chang isn't completely wrong either.
@@Newie69MK No, it isn't. But change should come from within, deliberately and willingly. If it is violent and uncontrolled, or seeps in from the outside, you end up with a burned out or corroded culture.
Good video, J.
This episode was one of several that pointed out to me that the Prime Directive, while well intended, it's kind of stupid and immoral.
I believe that while yes, you have a good point the damage that could caused be interfering in primitive cultures far out weighs the good. you can help the rainforest people with medicine and that but you start giving the smart phones and automatic weapons...
@@nobodythere4060 slippery slope fallacy. No one is saying we should go that far.
I dont know if I agree in this episodes case. What would the enterprise of federation do exactly, conquer the planet? Change has to come from within. The J'Naii need to work their societal shit out for themselves.
Who Watches the Watchers is a perfect example of where the prime directive is a good idea. The Mintakans were doing just fine and accidental exposure to the federation almost ended in disaster for their society.
Like Picard himself once said however, "there can be no justice so long as laws are absolute", yet hypocritically on several occasions he was willing to let an entire species die(a far greater crime than letting Wesley, 1 teenager, die) because he refused to consider the PD open to interpretation or flexibility.
Now in the case of homeward, lets be honest, the Boraalans would have gone extinct. They only saved what, 18-20 of them? Not enough genetic diversity to survive. The holodeck idea was fine IF they packed every holodeck on the ship to capacity rather than just saving 1 tiny village. But really The PD should have a provision that if a species is threatened with extinction from forces outside their control, action to prevent their extinction should be allowed, with a minimum of interference possible. The enterprise should have packed every cargo bay, shuttlebay, and holodeck with Boraalans and taken them to a new home. Would it interfere with their development, sure, but it's preferable to them ceasing to exist. Theres no logical argument that shaking their view of the universe would do more damage than their culture and species being wiped out.
In the case of Pen Pals, they were able to correct the geological instability with a few modified photons. No need to expose themselves, and with all the volcanoes, any locals that saw the photons would likely be brushed off as having seen a meteor or a fragment of ejected lava.
The PD is a good rule in general, it's just applied stupidly by the writers too often.
@@Jarsia "What would the enterprise of federation do exactly, conquer the planet? "
Provide refuge/sanctuary/asylum to someone who was asking for it.
You don't have to upend the local society to give a refugee aid.
In fact, that's supposedly one of the exceptions to the PD, is that they are to give aid to those that request it, if it doesn't violate other edicts of the prime directive about non-interference.
Sheltering a fugitive is not interference.
@@Jarsia
"The enterprise should have packed every cargo bay, shuttlebay, and holodeck with Boraalans and taken them to a new home. Would it interfere with their development, sure, but it's preferable to them ceasing to exist. Theres no logical argument that shaking their view of the universe would do more damage than their culture and species being wiped out"
On this, we agree. The idea that cultural contamination is more harmful than extinction, which has been expressed obliquely on the show, is ludicrous.
I wouldn't say the PD is a good rule. I'd say it is a good guiding principle. Principles are better than rules, because principles can be adapted to the situation, and often, rules cannot. But even there, the PD, as a principle, obviously needs work.
4:50 Phallic objects and balls in the background? I get what you’re really saying, Lore 😉
I think another way to look at it is the Federation might see itself as a the shining city on the hill that by leading by example other cultures will eventually follow.
Tolerance is something Star Trek has never been consistent about. Janeway was very intolerant of intolerance. Others more so. Much like society today.
She was also intolerant of bullies, unless she was the one bullying another species.
It goes to the heart of what is meant by tolerance. Does tolerance for the society mean tolerance to allow oppression of a minority or an individual? Did she change her mind or was she the victim of abuse? And if she was abused, did Riker do the right thing by leaving her in the hands of her oppressor? There is so much to unpack with that episode.
She clearly had her mind altered in some way.
Hello!, I love your series. Ever thought about doing Stargate?
4:18 "a type of liberalism that means they won't help or even interact with anyone who doesn't think like they do or hold to their standards"
umm... ummm... what?
that would be _radicalism,_ the opposite of liberalism (in this case/sense).
i know you said "a toxic form of", but that doesn't turn it into its opposite.
that's kind of an important difference. and the term "liberalism" or "liberal" is already blurred enough, with everyone pretty much calling those they don't like "liberals" or "too liberal", etc... So it's not even very useful anymore, as it is, let alone if you also start labelling its opposite with the same term, then it becomes completely useless.
A word which can mean everything means nothing.
This reminds me of the enterprise episode with trip and the co-genator(sp?)
I always disliked "they" as a pronoun just because it usually used as a plural as opposed to singular.
Eh, so are a lot of words. Honestly, the more you try to define how the English language works, the more nonsensical it becomes. Better to just role with the definitions and try not to accidentally say something offensive.
But it has been used as a singular all the way back to Shakespeare. I guarantee you've read "they" as a pronoun before and not even recognized it.
@@percussionfellow6168 Perhaps but I still don't like it in linguistically in this context.
I have not watch this one for a while . Was the Planet of the J'nai part to the UFP ? Riker's action was one of love from my POV . Worf tagging along seem to be a friend aiding a friend need . Now Captain should have removed Riker and Worf from duty even for a short time .
Lore, would you consider a breakdown on voyagers episode “Retrospect”?
It’s the episode where 7of9 is convinced by the doctor through hypnosis to believe that Borg nanites were forcefully taken from her resulting in a false accusation that ends the life of the accused.
Might prove to be an interesting bookend to this video as in many ways the theme of authority harming the individuals “for their own good” based on their own beliefs are there and perhaps just as pointed, deals with several current day issues as well.
What about the androgynous 3rd gender: the "Cogenitor" from Startrek Enterprise (season 2 episode 22) ?
Let's be perfectly clear, here: Starfleet are the worst kind of opportunists: the ones who insist that they are not, with a friendly handshake, a pat on the back, and a warm smile......The Federation would ignore the J'nai literally eating live children to get their hands on navigating "null space". Why? Watch the shuttle visuals again: that's pretty close to how Hugh's liberated Borg ships behaved later on in the series. If this was a gateway to a subspace ship transport network, I could TOTALLY see Section 31 making sure that Picard & Co. were nearby at an opportune moment -- just how many Section 31 agents do you think are on the Enterprise-D, exactly? Guesses? For the J'nai? They'll give Riker a pass, first, for him saving their ship, and second, because they value their people so little, they likely see it as not worth making a stink over, to get their hands on sweet, sweet FedTech.
"They" is a bit flawed, because it's a plural word. So it can't really be used to speak of an individual because it's meant to talk about more than one person. Sadly, I don't have a better idea aside from creating a whole new word (insert Aladin joke here), but I don't think "they" is it. It will create confusion too easily in too many places.
Forest Wells no, they is often used to talk about a single person.
It does leave a bit of vagueness in English but with context it’s not exactly unusable, and in other languages contextual cues play a much larger part in communication.
are you a native english speaker, Forest Wells?
"They" is very problematic. It is fine when referring to a singular unknown induvidual in formal documents, but it cannot really be used in conversation regarding an individual you already know. For example "Riker and Soren had a meal last night and they really enjoyed it", is "they" referring to both Riker and Soren or just Soren?
@@Species1571 in that case, one could use Soren's name or the word "both", depending on which of the two is meant, to make the sentence unambiguous.
Worf, son of Moog, and alpha class wing man willing to risk his star fleet career to help Riker rescue his trans gf.
It was a chance for glorious battle, and alongside the Riker's Beard...what Klingon worth his prune juice would turn that down?
From commiting neckrope?
4:10 YES YES YES YES YES - THANK YOU
Interesting that Soren was played by Melinda Culea - Amy from the A-Team >> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melinda_Culea
Well, the term They is more commonly used to refer to a group of people more than a gender neutral pronoun
The only annoying thing about Riker, despite his good qualities, is his tendencies to be some knight in shining armor in stories he was involved in.
We get it. You are the good guy. Good for you. You are not the only good guy despite how your episodes paint you like that.
That one, he wanted to rescue the sexually ambiguous lady wannabe from her culture of sexual obscurity, an asexual culture. That makes him a hero to us humans, a knight in shining armor. To their culture, he is a champion of perverse values. That is like their culture, as their alien culture (and nature) is not identical to ours but similar, rescuing a pedophile and his child lover, or defending a rapist while giving said rapist an escape to his world, or rescuing a prominent neo-polygamist by taking him and all his wives (from the original to the child brides) to their starship because they share the same values.
While I agree with Federation culture, I disagree with Riker's and said alien's actions. One person, one relationship, is well worth the price for good but not worth the price for bad. The radical was not called for. The situation could have easily been resolved amicably. Easily. As a matter of fact, there would be a gain for both sides. Their "perverts" being removed from their culture to join the Federation would make them gain, their planet would win from the Federation shares. It is stupid to try to change a culture of which you are not part of that culture. Change comes from within. It's cool to just plant the idea... nothing more. What Riker did not realize, the idea was already there. That made him stupid.
I am shocked that they just went out in the bushes to make out like that, especially when that one crone was acting so obviously suspicious.
Riker is a crazed, skirt-chasing animal, and this woman hasn't been touched in years and has just been subjected to several days of Riker's magnificent charm and even witnessed him engage in a little derring-do. So, understandable, but still shocking.
Orville did it better
It was the obligatory homosexual tolerance episode of the series. Most series back then always had one pro ss relationship episode.
They is a plural. Can't use it when talking about an individual. Maybe using a title is more acceptable like "your instructor had a good student. "
You can amd have been since the 14th century
The Prime Directive exists for a reason, if you expect the Federation to behave like Klingons and conquer those they disagree with your watching the wrong show, just because you think something is right doesn’t mean it is.
Is there EVER a moment in this episode where Riker isn't flirting? Hahahaha it's almost comical how I didn't pick up on it when I was 13 as this was airing.
I would compare it to ST Enterprise Cogenitor. Where human values applied to an Alien race, culture and with major difference in genetics and instincts. The human animal is a small pack hunter. We work best in groups of around 6-8 This small group welcomes individuality because it brings each of our talents into a useful behavior without being too competitive. The J’nie seem to value everyone being the same. So say their primitive instinct was a large herding species. Where their members are actually happier being the same. Also note how Starfleet supports segregated starships. Human majority ships, Vulcan majority ships. I expect it too is because while the Alien species can coexist with each other they have significant differences that may make prolonged interaction difficult for all but the most committed to embrace living a different way.
Considering they ask Riker about his genitals, I think they should've told him (us) about theirs. It seems only fair. Come-on Soren, show us your... thing.
They were definitely not a simple culture
Because Heaven forbid that a tolerant society actually is tolerant and not just tolerant of views that support the ruling party.
This all started when Bugs Bunny dressed up like a girl bunny.
This episode is about homosexuality it took me two years to figure this out
As a trans woman I have a lot of feelings about Outcasts. The problem is that the episode conflates sexuality and gender identity. That was a very common way of thinking about homosexuality prior to the 1990s. It is a very toxic idea that reflects mid-century attitudes towards gender roles more than anything genuinely related to gay identity. Most of GLAAD's earlier educational campaigns focused on stopping TV producers from using that particular trope. Check out Billy Crystal's character arc on Soap for a good example of how media was unable to understand the distinction.
I am not very educated on the matter but I believe the point of conflating was to specifically put straight cis person into the shoes of people who identify themselves any other way. A reversed situation of inequality.
Maybe they let him go because he built a nuke for Chief O'Brien.
This is what I really don't like about the Federation, they constantly shrug their shoulders and turn a blind eye to the atrocities and bigotry of alien nations because that's just their culture and they think it should be respected. The Federation should never tolerate the intolerant, instead they need to stand up for the rights and liberty of all sentient beings in the galaxy. Hell, this issue predates the Federation entirely. Remember when Trip was punished for treating an alien sex slave as an equal? And then was blamed when the slave decided suicide would be preferable to slavery?
This is where episodic TV lets the viewer down...all it would have taken is 1 or 2 lines of throwaway dialogue in a Picard V.O. to explain why Starfleet was helping them, etc.
Don't know that this show could've been a strong 2 part episode, but you could've put plot threads from it in multiple episodes to better explain the underlying themes, if TNG had been serialized.
Trek, along with other SF sources normally maintain "sie" and "hir".
she looked better on the A-Team
Melinda Cluea was cute as a button on the A-team. 😆
riker: ive been on this shuttle for more than 24hrs your a she now lets lock lips and rock the ship
If the shuttle is a rockin', don't come a knockin'
Alien: riker I'm not into you that way.
Riker: what if I put my foot on this chair and lean forward.
Alien: take me now
please use commas, I had to read that three times for it to make any sense
@@connergibson9453 you must suck at reading comprehension
Well starfleet always claims that they are so tolerant and good that they forget that not everyone wants what they like and you can only join them if you share their point of view. I go that far and state that they might be worse than the Borg
the federation has certain key principals. you can only join them if you agree to those key principals, I don't see anything wrong with that. especially as the federation is happy to ALLY with other nations. Given the federation is essentially a "Union of values" they've every right to exclude planets who don't practice those values from joining. If you don't practice those values you're proably just applying for federation membership to use it.
Ah yeah, "Outcast" the episode where Riker teaches a someone who already identifies as a heterosexual woman how to be a heterosexual woman, that is, somehow, about homosexuality... *rolleyes*
And yeah I agree that Starfleet and the Federation were often a bit too cavalier about what their allies did with their subjects. I mean just look at the Klingons and their "subject species"
As we know from real diplomats, it is possible to make deals and help each others and helping people out who are opressed. We see that for example in europe when the EU helps the african states to grow by giving them money, expertise and aid and giving asylum to those who need it. That is a possible forein policy.
Where they not out of off of star gate Atlantis
What would Starfleet do if they encountered some cenobites?
Rotate shield frequencies and fire all weapons at one spot in their cube
@@NitpickingNerd but what about the cenobite box... or the strange outfit....bald heads...damn, you're right.
What if there was a gaint Hellraiser cube the size of a Borg vessel ?
She mentions she has "parents", but how do parents or having kids at all even work without gender?
This would work better if they all weren't one gender "none" but one gender "Futanari".
This is just like that race of all-males in "The Orville," where the young daughter was forced into becoming male.
I found her situation unfortunate but i didn't take any sides because their wasn't enough information for me to find anything wrong. If you wanna say a race has no gender, i wanna know how that happened, when and under what circumstances then how the race continues reproduction. are they immortals? are they clones? etc. From another outlook, the faction who wants to behave like a particular gender, can be considered "traditionalist" since the planet use to have them. The current evolution might've been a forced one, to eliminate sexual crimes and identity politics. too many unknowns but i did find Rikers actions as a Starfleet Officers VERY questionable.
@Lore, you know the French use the pronoun "one" for the impersonal "on" as a singular reference versus using "they". Just a point of reference as French and English share some common roots and impersonal idea of "one" like "one is not amused" sounds a lot better than "they are not amused".
Maybe it's kind of ironic that "one" as individual pronoun is also antithesis to Borg "we" collective, since what the J'nai are is a cultural collective/monolith versus an individual will or ideal.
One can use that in English too, but it has a different, though similar, function.
I'm curious how this was translated into Hungarian. Our pronouns aren't gendered. He, she, they (sing.), it's all the same word: ő
And it doesn't even get used, due to the way our grammar works
Lately it feels slimy in my opinion to use the word they when referring to a singular person because of what the intersectional left has done with it.
Which is?
Common courstesy since the 14th century is somehow something you won't do cause you don't like some 'Left?'
@@OllamhDrab It ceases to be common courtesy when it is compelled.
@@UncleMikeDrop Or so you whine it is because someone else used that construction. But English does actually use 'they,' it was only made 'improper' sometime last century then they wanted to make 'he' the default, then it went to 'he or she' but people do and always have still said 'they' and 'them' when it's someone of unspecified or indeterminate gender. You're just trying to signal hostility cause someone wound you up about it like it's an imposition on you if everyone doesn't fit in *your* imposed boxes.
@@OllamhDrab Yeah and gay used to mean happy. Language changes and I reserve the right to use they as I see fit. We DO have genders all 2 of them so pick one and accept the corresponding pronouns.
An such simple things.. such as errors in simple speech.. much less very important issues is why since we are evolved with Gender we should just accept that and stay that way
An assuming she went with him willingly and her people shrugged an said, apparently, good riddance.. bein still commissioned, although they're wrong to tolerating intolerance and barbarism, he went about doin the right thing the wrong way and is basically goin rogue. Especially if we decided screw the commission and tryst to flee with her to parts he hopes are unknown enough he wont be found
Dr crusher my be an expert is space hurpies he must be riddled
Is it bad I can understand this on a more personal level as you have mentioned it being an indirect way of looking at transgender people and their rights?
"Null space," dear friend, is...sadly....Star Trek's version of...wait for it....The Quicksand Trope!!!! You know, based on my watching of television I thought quicksand would be more of a problem than it is. But...if Maxwell Smart, Gilligan and various people on Lassie (I am assuming) can escape it...so can I. After all, like obligatory Nazi themed episodes in Star Trek and that reuse of "The Most Dangerous Game" plot....harmless fun can be had for all!!! P.S. Go watch "Pleasantville!" Lol
Hard to call them intolerant. This is a race that chose to become mono gendered. Throwbacks would defeat what the culture had accomplished. It’s not the Federation’s role to impose its morality on another species....prime directive. How they chose to handle the situation might be seen as barbaric.
Considering the time it aired, it was a good way to discuss the issue of homosexuality without being “in your face” about it.
It could be taken as allegory for the entire LGBT experience.
As well as conversion "therapy", which isn't really even examined in this episode.
Just saw episode 3 of the Orville. Crazy.
I almost want to say “transgender,” but I know that’s very wrong. I guess just plain ole “gender.”
"retrogender" would be fitting, perhaps
@Adan Druego
This is starting to sound like one of those asinine "freedom of speech" rants by people who want to be immune of criticism and responsibility.
You can't have it both ways. If you want freedom of speech (and you do in fact have it), then everyone else has the freedom to correct or criticize you if you say something ignorant or offensive.
That said, I believe the OP was trying to determine if j'naii like Soren are transgender or something else. Good question because it's not like Soren is transitioning from an assigned gender (they have none).
@Adan Druego
I don't have to be betazoid to sense that sarcasm.
@Adan Druego
Why would you even be here on a Star Trek channel then?
The United Federation of Planets is basically a secular leftist utopia that thrives on Communism.
Then again, it sounds like you might be a fan of the Terran Empire from the mirror universe.
The 41% Species
They and them are plural. Unless I'm talking to a multiple personality, it's awkward.
Also. The Tumblr cult is probably the first secular religion from what I've seen.
No, it started being used as singular as far back as the 14th century
@@LoreReloaded closest I've figured out, at least not abusing the English language, is you. Because I am addressing you. If someone wants to be a dick about it, then that's when I'll use it. Eye for an eye. Luckily I don't deal with the Tumblr cult to test the theory.
I meant.. the use of they as singular..im confused
@@LoreReloaded it is confusing.
To be honest all this coexist-speech is not really honest. The Federation did try to help dissidents in other societies simple because it either fit their interests or ideology, for example the Romulus. They are tolerant when it fit them, but often they either try to influence other societies in the way it benefits them or are able to look the other way if someone who they need did...less tolerant things. It depends what suits them at the moment. I do not say this is in core evil, but it makes the claim of many "heroes" somehow dishonest.
I also have the feeling that Star Fleet itself must be a somehow racist, intolerant organisation, at least as we see it in the films.
At first the ranks are highly dominated by American/European people. We see little Chinese or Indian etc. people (I mean people who come from this former nations) in high ranks and they even are not that dominant in lower ranks. This made zero sense in a society where the ability to learn and rise through the ranks should be distributed fair to all, only influenced by meris and abilities. It is always claimed inequality on earth as hunger etc. has been eradicated. Given the fact that in any future earth people from North America and Europe would make just a small portion of the population, I see no in-story explanation that makes sense. Neither are people from other parts of the Earth less able to rise in the ranks (if they grow up under circumstances which gave them the same possibilities to learn - if your schools are bad even e smart person could end up in a low-profile-job, but that should not be the case on the future earth and the colonies) nor are they smaller in numbers (the opposite is the case). It would be a curious case if we only see "western"-dominated ships by accident (and it would speak volumes if this implies that Star Fleet try to build up crews mainly from people of certain former nations).
Second we see both crews and commanders dominated by humans. That make even less sense. The humans are a late developed society compared with several of the founding members of the Federation. They started rough after a brutal time of war on their home world. And I do not believe that their numbers exploded, since the typical Federation human family seem to have one to three children - nothing what indicates rapid growth. Surely faster than in the case of the Vulcans for example, but Vulcans live longer.
So why are humans so dominant? Are they smarter, have more courage etc.? That WOULD be racist if anyone claims it. There must be some explanation in story, and all possible put a huge shadow on these noble speeches.
Most story arcs of non-humans in the ranks is how they learn to be more human in some way (Spock, Worf etc.) - not how the humans become more Alien. How often we see humans live and stay true to the values or religions of an alien species? Even those who were raised in alien way (like the "hero" of Discovery) slips back into human "normality" at least in some parts, instead of perhaps convincing members of its crews to follow Suraks teachings or whatever Alien part of culture they follow. That mean not that I value alien ideologies as superior to human, but I have a hard time to accept that they should be inferior as it is silently implied.
And of course the Federation and Star Fleet especially are hard to accept that the values and societies of their rivals are not somehow inferior or wrong, they have just developed different, build by the special histories - both Klingons and Romulus had traumatic events which shaped their society in a certain way, a way no human could understand. But time and again the societies are shown (through the eyes of Star Fleet members) as somehow dysfunctional, and only that members as "good" who move towards Federation (aka human dominated) values.
"The Federation did try to help dissidents in other societies simple because it either fit their interests or ideology, for example the Romulus."
Yes, but evertime it comes out, it's kind of a scandal. For example with Romulus. ;)
They're not supposed to, but it's a law that is broken by some people some times. Like with any law.
Nah he is right , its an it.
I have been defeated
I always picked up that they were talking about gay issues.
I remember hearing a claim that there was a short lived attempt to make the character male because Jonathan Frakes thought that it would have hit harder for the viewers. I can't remember where I heard that though. Even as a kid I recognized the implied undertones. It was the first time it occurred to me just how antimoral hetero supremacy really is.
I wonder if it's just gender or if it's their sex too. Are these people all the same sex ? How do they procreate then? If this species is sexually 2 different sexes then the single gender thing is kinda useless, it's just similar hair and appearance but this episode treats the woman one of the species different for being attracted to Riker, but if they have 2 sexes then they would already have millions like that who procreate. Gender is more than just jeans and t shirts vs dresses and lipstick but without hormonal and surgical differences, gender is pretty much just expression, fashion choices, and how you wish to be viewed by others and the roles you feel comfortable taking part in throughout society. It doesn't really fit having a sexually dimorphic species that's andro the way it works here on earth with a sexually dimorphic species where occasionally people prefer to be the gender not commonly affiliated with their sex or neither. It's just tv though so it can't be perfect and was more about the overarching point.
THEY 😂
That is why I never joined the Federation because I thry are too Liberal.
Your script writer keeps missing or replacing words compared to the spoken dialogue, lol.
Or the voice actor cant read for crap..they are trying to sort it out
It feels very wrong to use “they” as a singular pronoun.
are you a native speaker of English?
Silkwesir Yes.
@@aperson22222 Okay when I point out one of my friends friends I say "Who are they". I look I get I hate this pronoun garbage too but it's basic English.
Hey look! Another "shit on starfleet" video
Your speech at the 4.20 is perfect to summarize the extreme left sjw vs the right right now.
I'll be honest, I'm a lil disappointed in Riker (/the writing) in this,he's harbourin a crush on an androgynous person, but god damn that smile an look of relief when it turns out *they* just so happen to be an anomaly and is actually a she. Maybe the time it was written, but I think leaving the anomalous gender out I think woulda made for a more interesting interaction
The story is contrived, forced. It is too obvious and flawed.
One of the weakest, forced, contrived and embarrassing episodes is the show.
I put it up there with the episode where Riker became a 'Q'. Just Gawd Aweful
I agree it's bad, but I it's nowhere near as bad as "Hide and Q", in my opinion. It's more like halfway between that one and an average TNG episode.