It's not just heterosexual women who feel unattractive as they age. I'm an aging lesbian & I feel like I'm never going to have a relationship. Who wants someone who's 60, even if I'm in great health? If you marry young, or even in your 40s, by the time you start aging, you will already have been together 15, 25, 35 years or more. When your spouse looks at you, he or she sees the person they love. But when you're single, people just see an aging woman who doesn't have the good looks and vigor of youth and nobody wants to START a relationship with someone at that stage. Even if someone did, how would you meet them? Especially in the age of COVID & of hetero men claiming to be lesbians on our dating sites and apps? I never have gone to clubs or bars. People used to say, "Do what you love and you'll meet someone when you aren't looking." I did things I loved for years. I had a setback & had to deal with depression & PTSD and lost a lot of years. I'm tired of just surviving & don't want to spend the rest of my life alone, but I haven't had any prospects since 1998.
This got better as it went along & the last half hour was fantastic! For those pressed for time, who might begin losing interest sometime in the first hour, or who just want to jump right into the book itself, go to 1:00:51 and watch to the end first. You can always come back later & watch the first hour, but DO NOT MISS that last half hour!! * (BTW, Daniel, for some reason those timestamps you gave that go beyond 60 minutes don't appear as clickable links. I suspect you have to use the hr/min/sec format like I used above for any timestamps over 60 minutes to be clickable. That's just a guess. You might want to convert those last 3 timestamps b/c timestamps are super helpful in long interviews!) *
Late to comment ... I loved listening to this - just amazing - and love Dr. Helen Joyce. I was surprised, however, to hear both parties miss/not be aware of what "radical" feminism means. It doesn't mean "extreme." The root of the word radical is radix, which literally means "root." Radix = Latin for "root." Radical feminism goes to the ROOT of women's oppression, which is male exploitation and oppression of the female sex class on the axis of SEX in order to extract and control sexual and reproductive labor. It's like radical surgery to get every bit of the cancer; radical feminism goes to the root of the rot because you can't dig it out and address it by covering it up or acting like it's not even there ... à la "how can you put 50% of the population in a class." "False consciousness" actually *is* a thing. And yes, radical feminism is just feminism, the real kind. Second wave feminism was bang on and accomplished so much in a such short time ... any wonder this wondrous new "feminism" came along that attacks the definitions of SEX? It's the most brutal, blatant gaslighting I hope we'll ever see.
She has acknowledged this definition of radical feminism elsewhere, but thank you for your clarifying comment. I consider myself a proud (and vocal ) TERF. Re gaslighting, one of the most pernicious terms to arise and flourish in the last few years is the suffix "phobia." Although "phobia" can also mean "a hatred of," it is popularly understood to mean "an irrational fear." Therefore, anyone expressing a dislike of the trans movement is "phobic"---at least somewhat mentally ill. This was a Soviet tactic: put your dissidents in mental hospitals because, obviously, anyone opposing the politics of the great and glorious USSR must be nuts. Anyone who is trans"phobic" or has a "phobia" about The Religion That Must Not Be Named can therefore be dismissed and ridiculed, even when one can articulate serious social problems with the trans cult and TRTMNBN. Its use needs to be called out whenever some brainwashed nit trots it out.
Fantastic discussion. I missed this when it first came out, and I’m so glad I got to see it. Much to consider. Very clarifying of many of the issues. Please have Dr. Joyce back.
1:06:51 so true… we need to recognise that there is no one tra ns pattern.. there are multiple types and multiple causes of dysphoria. So perhaps there are multiple treatments and ways for society to find a place for these experiences, rather than pushing only one response
Separate spaces for trans"women" and trans"men"---except, of course, that autogynephilic men absolutely consider themselves female and demand that others validate their delusions. Other cultures have accommodated and do accommodate such people, but they seem not to have been troubled by arrogant autogynephiles. What we don't want is people with penises, a.k.a. "men," invading women's toilets, change rooms, dormitories, shelters, rape crisis centres (!), and prisons. Men who "transition" to supposed female status retain a male pattern of criminality. (Big surprise.) I don't care about their delusional and arrogant self-identification. I could self-identify as a bowl of porridge, but demonstrably and empirically, I'm not.
Totally agree about how traditional feminism had an opposite view on gender.. that it’s social not self-constructed. I keep seeing feminism being blamed for the gender madness but feminists were rejecting gender roles and stereotypes, while T rights activists are promoting those things.. this ideology didn’t come from feminism HOWEVER it was embraced by the latest wave because of intersectionality.. to be intersectional you must constantly include all oppressions and over time they were guilted into viewing Ts as the most oppressed of all in all contexts.
I agree, great video. If you like this, you will also love her interviews with Benjamin A Boyce (search Ben Boyce and Helen Joyce on UA-cam)! They're...fantastic. So amazing. Especially the newer one (titled "The Gender Matrix") which starts off on the topic of the Matrix movie being a trans allegory written by the Wachowski brothers, now the Wachowski "sisters". The whole chat is fascinating. Helen Joyce is brilliant.
0:37 no you're wrong. Feminism had to tackle that head on... and patriarchy learned, just not correctly. They only learned to twist that strategy against women, not to opening their minds to women's requests and demands. Patriarchy won the war of the sexes. Women had to embrace being sex positive and this only served men.
Madness, sheer madness. That the Humanities and philosophy more specifically has been so responsible for giving fuel to all this madness is unforgivable. We should ,thus, rejoice that the Humanities are dying if not fully dead and that philosophy has faded in importance. Rejoice evermore!
Totally agree with the host about self-determination of gender being a neoliberal thing. And that there aren't "genders" as such, rather things are gendered. That's always made sense. The pomo feminism of now makes no sense.
I can attest that it is very much generational as I have a daughter in her 40’s, a daughter in her 20’s and a grand daughter about to turn 16 and the younger have the overly accepting and unaware of the dangers involved in the trans movement. Nor the ability to see the absolute illogical increase is not even a stable evolutionary concept. As they think they don’t want children and the earth is too populated etc what they can’t seem to foresee is the danger of erasing women’s safety and that includes their sporting arenas. This includes how it is eating language that describes us as women and our place in society. It will eventually affect their job prospects and every part of the female world that has had to negotiate a world that favours men.
Ye olde biological facts of life are obvs not just mental or social performance - yet a retreat into PC delusion/avoidance seems very understandable - young girls/women rebelling but falling into a 'new' gender cult only too ready to exploit them. The start of getting periods is surely of more immediate concern than menopause for adolescent girls facing adult real life as a woman in a female body - can we talk about that? Together with dealing with sexual attention/presentation/expectations with (on average) relative physical weakness and less aggression via testosterone - let alone pressures of fitting into societal 'tribes', norms and media. Needing to think about contraception, pregnancy, the practical and physical difficulties of childbirth. Welcome to womanhood! 'No thanks'.
Sorry to change the subject but if I am a just tangentially mention: I always wondered why scientists call for example worker ants females when to me a neutral gender. queen bees are clearly female and drums are male but I don't see why scientists always say that the workers are female too. Their neuter in terms of sex. Tere are other social insects to like termites that have many genders. Too me, "gender" like it's sister words "genre" and "genus" just means "standard type" or "kind" of. Termites for example have several genders apart from the ones with clearly obvious sexes, such as soldier termites. so we can see all animals have two sexes but some have many neuter genders after all I did to go to each other but very different from the other genders. That's how I look at them and I think it's it at least as legitimate a way to look at them as the wayexperts actually do which is to say each gender has to be one of two sexes which is forcing something on an alien species that it's just the way we're used to it with mammals and birds and such but it's not really the way for all species. I realize of course that this is not the way things are done, but just because the birds and mammals haveonly two genders which correspond exactly to their sexes doesn't mean that every species everywhere has to. I think my way of looking at it is at least as legitimate and probably more so than the way biologists do. My ways a better way to use the words gender and sex when it comes to animals.
chrisrus1965 well yes but humans aren’t termites, ants or any other social insect. We are mammals and mammals don’t have a neuter sex. We are also primates, specifically a kind of ape, and male/female differences in physiology and behavior in apes is well-documented.
Your way of looking at it is more legitimate than professional biologists? How in the hell do you propose to support such a claim? 500 million years of sexual dimorphism in our mighty phylum; deal with it.
@@willmercury Because I have an objectively fact-based logical reason to call a worker bee "neuter", whereas they call them "female" for no reason other than tradition. There's nothing objectively female about them
@@anomietoponymie2140 Ok but all I'm saying is that worker bees are neither male nor female. I don't know why you are talking about vertebrates, none of which, as you say, have three or more genders as for example many ants do.
Typical intellectual-has some expertise in one discipline (hahaha, economics is not a discipline) running her mouth re a bunch of stuff she knows nothing about.
I’m not sure I could love Helen Joyce more. Every sentence is either simply true or simply truly insightful.
Update: Helen’s book is out in the UK and it is first-rate.
My wife’s reaction: “Turn it up!”
Helen ticks all the boxes. Intelligent, common sense, honest, articulate.. I’m very impressed.
Helen is an absolute treasure! I'm reading her book, Trans, now, and I highly recommend it.
“I could talk to you for three hours.” Oh please do talk to her for three hours or more!!!
It’s 2022, and this conversation has become more important
It's not just heterosexual women who feel unattractive as they age. I'm an aging lesbian & I feel like I'm never going to have a relationship. Who wants someone who's 60, even if I'm in great health? If you marry young, or even in your 40s, by the time you start aging, you will already have been together 15, 25, 35 years or more. When your spouse looks at you, he or she sees the person they love. But when you're single, people just see an aging woman who doesn't have the good looks and vigor of youth and nobody wants to START a relationship with someone at that stage. Even if someone did, how would you meet them? Especially in the age of COVID & of hetero men claiming to be lesbians on our dating sites and apps? I never have gone to clubs or bars. People used to say, "Do what you love and you'll meet someone when you aren't looking." I did things I loved for years. I had a setback & had to deal with depression & PTSD and lost a lot of years. I'm tired of just surviving & don't want to spend the rest of my life alone, but I haven't had any prospects since 1998.
This got better as it went along & the last half hour was fantastic! For those pressed for time, who might begin losing interest sometime in the first hour, or who just want to jump right into the book itself, go to 1:00:51 and watch to the end first. You can always come back later & watch the first hour, but DO NOT MISS that last half hour!! * (BTW, Daniel, for some reason those timestamps you gave that go beyond 60 minutes don't appear as clickable links. I suspect you have to use the hr/min/sec format like I used above for any timestamps over 60 minutes to be clickable. That's just a guess. You might want to convert those last 3 timestamps b/c timestamps are super helpful in long interviews!) *
Nice one 👍
Thank god Helen has arrived on the trans scene to debate this utter madness. She gives me hope.
Late to comment ... I loved listening to this - just amazing - and love Dr. Helen Joyce. I was surprised, however, to hear both parties miss/not be aware of what "radical" feminism means. It doesn't mean "extreme." The root of the word radical is radix, which literally means "root." Radix = Latin for "root." Radical feminism goes to the ROOT of women's oppression, which is male exploitation and oppression of the female sex class on the axis of SEX in order to extract and control sexual and reproductive labor. It's like radical surgery to get every bit of the cancer; radical feminism goes to the root of the rot because you can't dig it out and address it by covering it up or acting like it's not even there ... à la "how can you put 50% of the population in a class." "False consciousness" actually *is* a thing.
And yes, radical feminism is just feminism, the real kind. Second wave feminism was bang on and accomplished so much in a such short time ... any wonder this wondrous new "feminism" came along that attacks the definitions of SEX? It's the most brutal, blatant gaslighting I hope we'll ever see.
She has acknowledged this definition of radical feminism elsewhere, but thank you for your clarifying comment. I consider myself a proud (and vocal ) TERF. Re gaslighting, one of the most pernicious terms to arise and flourish in the last few years is the suffix "phobia." Although "phobia" can also mean "a hatred of," it is popularly understood to mean "an irrational fear." Therefore, anyone expressing a dislike of the trans movement is "phobic"---at least somewhat mentally ill. This was a Soviet tactic: put your dissidents in mental hospitals because, obviously, anyone opposing the politics of the great and glorious USSR must be nuts. Anyone who is trans"phobic" or has a "phobia" about The Religion That Must Not Be Named can therefore be dismissed and ridiculed, even when one can articulate serious social problems with the trans cult and TRTMNBN. Its use needs to be called out whenever some brainwashed nit trots it out.
Fantastic discussion. I missed this when it first came out, and I’m so glad I got to see it. Much to consider. Very clarifying of many of the issues. Please have Dr. Joyce back.
1:06:51 so true… we need to recognise that there is no one tra ns pattern.. there are multiple types and multiple causes of dysphoria. So perhaps there are multiple treatments and ways for society to find a place for these experiences, rather than pushing only one response
Separate spaces for trans"women" and trans"men"---except, of course, that autogynephilic men absolutely consider themselves female and demand that others validate their delusions. Other cultures have accommodated and do accommodate such people, but they seem not to have been troubled by arrogant autogynephiles. What we don't want is people with penises, a.k.a. "men," invading women's toilets, change rooms, dormitories, shelters, rape crisis centres (!), and prisons. Men who "transition" to supposed female status retain a male pattern of criminality. (Big surprise.) I don't care about their delusional and arrogant self-identification. I could self-identify as a bowl of porridge, but demonstrably and empirically, I'm not.
Totally agree about how traditional feminism had an opposite view on gender.. that it’s social not self-constructed. I keep seeing feminism being blamed for the gender madness but feminists were rejecting gender roles and stereotypes, while T rights activists are promoting those things.. this ideology didn’t come from feminism HOWEVER it was embraced by the latest wave because of intersectionality.. to be intersectional you must constantly include all oppressions and over time they were guilted into viewing Ts as the most oppressed of all in all contexts.
I have now watched this video 3 times. This woman is brilliant. Hopefully,. she gets wider coverage soon.
I agree, great video. If you like this, you will also love her interviews with Benjamin A Boyce (search Ben Boyce and Helen Joyce on UA-cam)! They're...fantastic. So amazing. Especially the newer one (titled "The Gender Matrix") which starts off on the topic of the Matrix movie being a trans allegory written by the Wachowski brothers, now the Wachowski "sisters". The whole chat is fascinating. Helen Joyce is brilliant.
0:37 no you're wrong. Feminism had to tackle that head on... and patriarchy learned, just not correctly. They only learned to twist that strategy against women, not to opening their minds to women's requests and demands. Patriarchy won the war of the sexes. Women had to embrace being sex positive and this only served men.
I need more Helen please!
Rewatched it again. Thanks.
Thanks.
Madness, sheer madness. That the Humanities and philosophy more specifically has been so responsible for giving fuel to all this madness is unforgivable. We should ,thus, rejoice that the Humanities are dying if not fully dead and that philosophy has faded in importance. Rejoice evermore!
TERF Island just might save us all.
I’m so proud to part of the British terven. 🇬🇧
Oh em g! My old aesthetics professor from my alma mater! Great to see you Dr Kaufman!!
Totally agree with the host about self-determination of gender being a neoliberal thing. And that there aren't "genders" as such, rather things are gendered. That's always made sense. The pomo feminism of now makes no sense.
Clicked on this because I love Helen Joyce, then saw The Stranglers T-shirt 👍🏻😍😍😍❤️I’m in 😍
from personal experience, when it comes to males. theres no "woman" inside. just sexual angst.
I can attest that it is very much generational as I have a daughter in her 40’s, a daughter in her 20’s and a grand daughter about to turn 16 and the younger have the overly accepting and unaware of the dangers involved in the trans movement. Nor the ability to see the absolute illogical increase is not even a stable evolutionary concept. As they think they don’t want children and the earth is too populated etc what they can’t seem to foresee is the danger of erasing women’s safety and that includes their sporting arenas. This includes how it is eating language that describes us as women and our place in society. It will eventually affect their job prospects and every part of the female world that has had to negotiate a world that favours men.
Ye olde biological facts of life are obvs not just mental or social performance - yet a retreat into PC delusion/avoidance seems very understandable - young girls/women rebelling but falling into a 'new' gender cult only too ready to exploit them.
The start of getting periods is surely of more immediate concern than menopause for adolescent girls facing adult real life as a woman in a female body - can we talk about that?
Together with dealing with sexual attention/presentation/expectations with (on average) relative physical weakness and less aggression via testosterone - let alone pressures of fitting into societal 'tribes', norms and media.
Needing to think about contraception, pregnancy, the practical and physical difficulties of childbirth.
Welcome to womanhood! 'No thanks'.
fascinating discussion. Thank you
What the heck is hetroflexiable. Dating in college is so frustrating now too many ppl who can't make up their sexual identity
yah big words so scary 4 me 2!!!!!!!!
Nothing that a look in the mirror can't fix. It shouldn't be too hard to figure out what you are, at least biologically.
The political parallels she draws are very interesting as well as what she says about porn (which I think is both true and heartbreaking).
You're in your 50s?! You are gorgeous! What are you eating? Must be the dancing magic.
This guy is one of my crushes, he's so hot and articulate, I love love love him (I love Dr. Sandler as well, such a promiscuous gayo)
Not all women have children.
Excellent.
P.s. I was unsubscribed 4 times through out this vid.
I'm thinking Kaufman has a woman running around inside him somewhere. :-)
Sorry to change the subject but if I am a just tangentially mention:
I always wondered why scientists call for example worker ants females when to me a neutral gender.
queen bees are clearly female and drums are male but I don't see why scientists always say that the workers are female too. Their neuter in terms of sex.
Tere are other social insects to like termites that have many genders. Too me, "gender" like it's sister words "genre" and "genus" just means "standard type" or "kind" of. Termites for example have several genders apart from the ones with clearly obvious sexes, such as soldier termites.
so we can see all animals have two sexes but some have many neuter genders after all I did to go to each other but very different from the other genders.
That's how I look at them and I think it's it at least as legitimate a way to look at them as the wayexperts actually do which is to say each gender has to be one of two sexes which is forcing something on an alien species that it's just the way we're used to it with mammals and birds and such but it's not really the way for all species.
I realize of course that this is not the way things are done, but just because the birds and mammals haveonly two genders which correspond exactly to their sexes doesn't mean that every species everywhere has to.
I think my way of looking at it is at least as legitimate and probably more so than the way biologists do. My ways a better way to use the words gender and sex when it comes to animals.
chrisrus1965 well yes but humans aren’t termites, ants or any other social insect. We are mammals and mammals don’t have a neuter sex. We are also primates, specifically a kind of ape, and male/female differences in physiology and behavior in apes is well-documented.
Your way of looking at it is more legitimate than professional biologists? How in the hell do you propose to support such a claim? 500 million years of sexual dimorphism in our mighty phylum; deal with it.
@@willmercury Because I have an objectively fact-based logical reason to call a worker bee "neuter", whereas they call them "female" for no reason other than tradition. There's nothing objectively female about them
@@anomietoponymie2140 Ok but all I'm saying is that worker bees are neither male nor female. I don't know why you are talking about vertebrates, none of which, as you say, have three or more genders as for example many ants do.
um u m uuuuuummmmm
Typical intellectual-has some expertise in one discipline (hahaha, economics is not a discipline) running her mouth re a bunch of stuff she knows nothing about.
No. She has a PhD in Mathematics, you numpty.