The Great Nickel Heist!
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
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The commodities trading firm Trafigura has announced that it has been the victim of a “systematic fraud” and has to writedown over half a billion dollars after discovering shipments of nickel that it purchased from firms controlled by Prateek Gupta failed to contain the metal.
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Jokes aside, d'you think blockchain technology could eventually be used to create a transparent accounting system that avoids most fraud? Let's ignore its current state and use for the purposes of this discussion though 😅
@@hexstaticloonatic4194 Yes
i was watching a video on the
mexicon cartel . how did i end up here .. but its a intresting video
Mr. Boyle, could you explain, Exchange Traded Funds of Silver and Gold and how they compare to actually standardized Bars of these valuables.
I heard these funds are not fully backed by existing valuables, but by Metall still waiting in the earth to be found and mined.
Is that a scam?
@@hexstaticloonatic4194 you don't need a distributed Ledger. Especially as it has had splits of the bitcoin blockchain in the past. blockchain technology is better suited for processes like electronic voting.
Transactions can be sufficiantly secured by clearing houses, ensurances or simply banks and regulations.
And no money solution in the world will make you free in an authoritarian governed place.
Could we please stop ridiculing Credit Suisse, as it's unfair to clowns around the world to be lumped into that same group.
After all Pat's intense roasting, I'm thinking I'd rather work at McDonald's than Credit suisse 💀
@@AnotherDante flipping burgers instead of flipping burghers
He was telling the true, so let post his video ….
This aged like the finest of wines.
Another nickname for nickel is "German Silver". This is a favourite for commemorative collectible companies who proudly announce that their coins are 100% solid German Silver, expecting unwary buyers to confuse nickel for silver.
Well I have been told that there is more silver certificates than exist in form of bars. Basically, Silver mines sell silver to banks that is still in the earth and banks sell that silver at the exchange. All hoping that the sold silver will be found and mined just in time...
So it looks like a supply bubble for silver.
I'm from the electronics industry, and the term "German Silver", is often applied to relay and switch contacts, as the oxide is still conductive. There it applies to a nickel alloy, including copper and zinc, in addition to nickel, in its make-up. That's not to say you're wrong. Definitions tend to be "squishy", and change over time.
Relays are also called contactors, depending which business you're in. There you go, squishy definitions, again.
@@michaelmoorrees3585 Relays are signal/control, contactors are power interrupters.
The definition is clearly defined, not at all squishy my friend.
@@rge24491 He meant for german silver. That should have been clear
@@sammorrissey9094 What? A contactor is not a relay regardless what German Silver contains.
That IS very clear.
Concerning commodities I have to say, your channel is pure gold, Patrick.
pun intended?
@@iamtotal7818 puns are the lowest form of humor, supposedly. I think they simply remove the bar for entry. Easy to execute, easy to understand. Always good for a laugh. Pun is intended, but make no mistake, this channel is surely a treasure, any way you look at it!
Agreed; be courageous - intend your puns!
@@philbert006 either you are deep in the joke, or this is the most reddit answer ever.
@@hoangle2483 I reckon I'm just easily amused, mostly with my own jokes. Tbh, I don't know a thing about Reddit. It's grouped with Twitter and TikTok in my eyes. Disgusting, harmful, and never considered logging into it. So I'm not exactly clear what you are implying.
Nickel is also vitality important for Stainless Steel production, so expect that to spike.
Also needed for U.S. coinage.
Present day 'nickels' are composed of 75% copper, 25% nickel. Such alloy was first used for the Three Cent Nickel of 1865 - 1889 and then the Five Cent Nickel of 1866 to present and, since 1965, has been the outer layers of 'copper nickel clad' Dimes and Quarter Dollars as well as Half Dollars from 1971 to present, the center layer being pure copper.
The nice thing with clay tablets is that you can break them on the head of the other party!
Thusly an ancient Twitter fight would be a bit different than today.
Interesting video, especially in light of JPMorgans recent disclosure that the estimated 1.3 million dollars in LME "nickel" they thought they had warehoused turned out to be bags of rocks. 😮
LMFAO I'm sorry but I can't stop laughing
Patrick Boyle: Do not suggest blockchain
Peter Griffin: I suggest blockchain
If amazon/UPS can take a picture of every delivery, why can't they improve their documenting and photographing of the container? There are a lot less containers than parcels of mail, should be easier.
Listening to Patrick is like enjoying every University lecture. I learn each episode. Thank you.
A commodities trading firm? based in Switzerland? nothing bad enough could happen to them
😂😂😂😂😂
Just like "network marketing" based out of Salt Lake City.
Falls apart when you step on someone bigger's foot.
Right now, the metal in the American nickel, with a monetary value of $0.05, has a metal value of $0.0624. (The pre-1982 penny, mostly copper, with a monetary value of $0.01, has a metal value of $0.0265.)
time to stop minting all coins, except quarters, perhaps.
@@jll5568 Dimes are even better for the Mint than quarters, actually, because they are so light. The nickel is very thick for its size, so it weighs almost as much as a quarter, and it actually contains quite a bit more nickel than a quarter.
Thanks for another banger Patrick ❤
I'm wonder if there will be more physical checking of cargo-- a cost, but might be worth it.
Have any people disappeared suspiciously? As you said, this is a crime which would inevitably detected.
Thank you for being one of the few independent and accurate provider of economic news on UA-cam. I appreciate the work and love you put into every episode.
I KNEW Credit Suisse would come up! They have a hand in all global financial shenanigans!
This sounds like it could be a plot to the next James Bond movie. The super villain taking over and crippling the global economy.
Geez, I'm old enough to get that Clinton reference.
Hey don't feel bad, I was born in '99 and even I know the reference
If there was a tablet near me the most entitled turds would put their text on it and no one with a true complaint would get to use it....
Keep going like this and you'll be left with no friends in finance circles 😂
At the very least, blacklisted by Credit Suisse
Paper assets meet reality, wonder how much of this is floating around inflating inventories
India strikes again sir. Best nickel in the world sir. Very high quality sir. Please buy sir.
OOOO new color grading. love it
Lol I had just tweeted about the Mesopotamian Clay Tablet Complaint 5 mins before I saw this video. Fascinating story and slotted in perfectly to your video. And people say the Internet is forever😂
As with most tumblr people, I continue to be delighted by Ea-Nasir, and whenever his blatant crimes and audacity are mentioned, especially elsewhere.
Guess you could say they want there…nickelback
Where?
@@-oiiio-3993 I’ll never tell you
Just a small linguistic technicality: Kufernickel means "copper devil" or the copper's devil, not the other way around since the more important word goes to the back in German composite words. Thus, Kupfernickel directly refers to the metal that prevents copper from being refined at the time, hinting that people of the time had pinned down the culprit already and considered the metal cursed. Otherwise, great channel, always enjoy watching.
The day cometh when Patric Boyle referenced Ea-Nasir, world's first historical scammer
Seems like if they just manuly checked inventory when buying it wouldnt of been an issue
I love your sarcasm hahaha
Great 'Tube as always Patrick.
Isn't the nub of the deceit here the analogue of investment in Fine Wines?
In that case, one can continue to trade the commodity as long as one doesn't open even a single bottle and find that the contents are vinegar. Once that happens ALL cases of that wine become worthless. Not a great investment.
Likewise Nickel at Sea can be traded multiple times without any suspicion that it might not be what it seems.
But when the container is opened, the truth comes to light.
The secret therefore is in keeping that container at sea forever, and never opening it.
Schroedinger's Container.
@@dikbozo Brilliant!
making Ea-Nasir proud
I came to the comments for this
This keeps up and everyone in East Asia will be tagged as high risk.
I'm now suspicious of things Indian.
Love the pics! Lol
Great video Patrick! Did you upgrade your camera setup? Seems crisper than usual.
Thank you.
One more dreadful thing about nickel: Nickelback.
Fantastic video Patrick
Credit Suisse manages to get into every scandal
Well, if they're putting carbon steel into car batteries instead of nickel then it's no wonder the range isn't so good!
Woah, for a second I thought you said TMNT. I thought, not the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles! I am so relieved to know that the TMNT are not involved in metals fraud.
Nickel is enoursmely important, and there are only a few countries that have it in quantity.
The U.S. Mint uses it in quantity.
Present day 'nickels' are composed of 75% copper, 25% nickel. Such alloy was first used for the Three Cent Nickel of 1865 - 1889 and then the Five Cent Nickel of 1866 to present and, since 1965, has been the outer layers of 'copper nickel clad' Dimes and Quarter Dollars as well as Half Dollars from 1971 to present, the center layer being pure copper.
Damn
Nice camera quality
Great lighting setup!
A fraudulent Indian company. Where have I heard that story before?
The Guptas are not sending their best.
Patrick, have you ever been called to be an expert in commodities witness during a trial. It should be a slam dunk against any company that is involved in commodities fraud.
Not bad humour for what's normally a great rap channel
Quality video, bro. Thanks!
Why is it not a surprise that Gupta was doing something dodgy..
Wish I’d done that
isn't there a quality inspection by SGS or something like that along the supply chain, LC fund release subject to quality certification? not a nickel trader, but inspections are basic stuff for transactions like that
still gonna do it, blockchain. Is literally the tech you described at the end, you're just not familiar with the boring kind of blockchain so efficient no one stands to make any money off it because a)there aren't any big scam stories about them and b)they're a little behind because... you know... no one is getting paid scammer money to make them. It'll happen, it'll just be boring.
Another one of Patrick's excellent videos! My only minor disagreement .... let's not confuse crypto "money" with blockchain technology! The technology when enforce by authentication and many other verifications like, trivial example here, IP white lists, it can be used for an open "transaction club" in almost real time! Of course, not protecting against scammers that are replacing transported commodities with a lower quality, not protecting from insiders!
Excellent commentary 👌
great info
I am bottom fishing Credit Suisse. Stop the jokes pls.
Here we go again
Nickel is an ancient word for a type of mine ghost in our region, where the term was 'coined', not so much the devil.
just imagine opposite! they claim the nickel is bad, pay for "independant" audit and sue for fraud meanwhile they sell "bad nickel" to a subsidiary for pennies? :)
Surprise, surprise: Credit Suisse was involved here as well.
Are any of these Guptas related to the South African ones ?
This decrease in Nickle suplies only means good stuff for my boi Indonesia :)
Typical story of Indian businessmen. Fraud, fraud and fraud 😂
Nickels pre 64 are 40% silver! Copper Pennie’s are actually worth .03 cents and not .01 cents. Stock up on coins it’s cheap metals for a great price!
No they aren't. Aside from a few years during WWII, five cent pieces have always been 75% copper, 25% nickel. The only thing that changed in '65 is that the quarters, dimes, and halves lost their silver. Nickels didn't change at all. I seriously doubt that you've been involved with metals for ten years.
You are wrong.
Half Dollars dated 1965 through 1970 are 'silver clad' with net 40% silver content, as were some specially packaged 'S' mint Eisenhower Dollars from 1971 through 1974 and specially packaged 'Bicentennial Silver Sets' of 1776 - 1976 dated Dollar, Half, and Quarter Dollar.
Half Dollars, Quarter Dollars, Dimes dated 1964 and earlier as well as Dollars dated 1935 and prior are 90% silver.
The U.S. five cent coin was minted of a 35% silver alloy from mid 1942 through 1945. Such 'War Nickels can be identified by a large mint mark above the dome of Monticello on the coin's reverse as well as a blackish sheen on worn examples. 'Silver War Nickels' (which had 0% nickel) were 1942P, 1942D, and all 1943 through 1945.
The original U.S. five cent coin was the silver Half Dime (1794 - 1873), the original Cent and Half Cent were pure copper, Pennies were British.
Present day 'nickels' are composed of 75% copper, 25% nickel. Such alloy was first used for the Three Cent Nickel of 1865 - 1889 and then the Five Cent Nickel of 1866 to present and, since 1965, has been the outer layers of 'copper nickel clad' Dimes and Quarter Dollars as well as Half Dollars from 1971 to present, the center layer being pure copper.
The U.S. Cent has been minted on planchets of zinc with a thin copper plating since mid 1982, replacing the bronze alloy that had been introduced in 1864.
I'm here for all the sarcasm
Well ya had me til 19:08. 😕
Lol dealing with the Gupta clan never ends well..... Just ask South Africa.
I rarely share my thoughts on finances but Nickel is indeed a "sleeper" investment opportunity and I have a lot of my portfolio committed to Mining Stocks and Nickel specifically... CNIKF (Canadian Nickel Company) is one of the few Mining Stocks I am very "bullish" on... I think it will go 5X or more in the next 1-2 years. I do not like stocks as a rule but their recent (2020) IPO was only hindered by COVID and subsequent chaos in World markets (looking at you LME!!) Suffice to say, I also believe no one knows anything for certain so we will see how right or wrong I am but I'd like others opinions or insights if you have any to share. Be well & take care!
Blockchain is a goo…..never mind
Amazing world... 😱
These traders should get into the dime business. Typically goes for twice the value and is much smaller than a nickel
"Bankers at Credit Suisse: 🤡"
That one two punch almost killed me. 🤣
It wouldn't be a good scandal without credit suisse.
@@michaelbelcher7942 Or Deutsche Bank or Softbank. :)
Savage!
"It's not a true financial scandal until Credit Suisse is involved."
Bankers, like many Lawyers and other profession learn, study and engage in such profession for the reason to get the insight on how to cope, dupe and use it to the contrary of the original value, process and meaning while hiding in the cognitive dissonance of the public and others. Everything is backwards and literately upside down, or put it simple..the world is a stage and everything is the contrary of what we have been told. Sadly the process of cognitive dissonance is hardwired in our brain, studies of MK Ultra and others are used to manipulate us on our biological nature, no matter how smart or aware and knowledge someone has in Psychology and similar. Its basically a hack and brute force or cheat code that is abused in any way possible. Even if people see, they can not process it inside their brains and wiring. The meaning of "hidden in plain sight" is derived from this, basically it can not be processed by our brain and processes due to the the way it was placed and packed. The best method for duping the public is not lying, as it is not the things that are said but the things that are not being said. Our brain processes and accepts "truth" and they tell, so we don't get septic as our brain recognizes mismatches based on logic and the unaware part of our brain. By telling the truth or a valid form in public, the public opinion does not change or raises eyebrows, humans work on triggers esp. emotional.
If you read or hear a speech and follow it and after it is done their is basically you are empty with thoughts and have the feeling it is saturated your attention is closed and the process inside your brain for this information and statement like on a checklist and the brain is closed for this chapter. They know that the brain works similar to a computer and programming language and write the matching code for our network in the way it gets unpacked 100% without irritation and does not trigger anything. Even if we may know something is evil and bad, if it is presented in a way that matches in our structure it gets "accepted" and when you ask why do the people don't stand up and still take it? They have no drive inside of them, even if they know or are aware, we are feed and programmed in a way that our brain and workings accept it based on code and logic while they are aware of the developer-code and that it even exist and how it works.
"Don't suggest blockchain in the comments, the goal is to reduce fraud, not draw in a different group of fraudsters" - OMG.
If you throw a stone in any general direction in the western region of India, there is a high chance of it hitting a person named Gupta. So its not really surprising that the two Gupta's are not related. The name 'Gupta' roughly translates to 'classified' or 'secretive', so its kind of apt that they're involved in so many scams!
Still, because the audience here is likely not to know that, Patrick did have to mention it.
Guptas were involved in a huge scandal - state capture, to be specific - in South Africa, and are now fugitives😂
lot of Patels too
So it's like nguyen
@@quockwalker7335 Oh My God. you started this but somebody will end it.
Muhammad, Jessica/Jennifer/John (USA), Kim/Park/Lee (Korea).
“…clay tablet beefs..”
I’m crying! 😂🤣🤣
"Please don't suggest block chain..." That's where I hit the like button on this one.
Well, it may have been a bit snarky (which, along with the wry/dry humor, is why many of us like Patrick), but on point. To deny that is to deny reality.
I did the same. Almost spit out coffee too.
Same
If you hit the like button twice, it becomes zero likes.
@WalkingStick block chain has the same value as a home printed certificate of authenticity
Not to mention that electronic warehouse receipts/bills of lading with records on the blockchain won't make a damn bit of difference to what's sitting in the containers!
I've had this conversation but about maintaining the cold chain for perishables. _It won't fix the bloody thermometer!_
Looking forward to a surge in NFN (non-fungible nickel).
Mr. Boyle is one of the few people on UA-cam who has organized thoughts and cuts right to the chase, without wasting the viewers time.
8:19 I see what you did there.
As an aside, you're wrong Patrick. I block chain my shed house, garage, even the front door of my house and it's super duper secure. The city was even nice enough to block chain my front wheel for me when I parked on the street once, keeping it safe and sound for me. Block chain works 😉
Its amazing to me as an engineering person that nobody in these commodities trades seems to do any basic assurance. Like - 'does this cargo actually exist'?
That's financialization. They were not selling nickel, they were selling contacts for nickel.
@@spejic1 yes but the underlying assets still need to exist
Finally this question. It is probably too costly for those high paid traders to arrange such simple and effective prevention of fraud. I wonder how much of this low grade nickel fro Gupta etc. has been sold to other users and gone into cr-ni steel for high pressure pipes as high grade materials. As long it is only traders who cheat each other it is just entertainment, but when wrong materials goes into nuclear plants and oil platforms it has a lot more consequences.
Kupfernickel, does not mean devil's copper in German (Kupfer = copper and nickel = nickel). The expression used was "Teufelskupfer". (I really enjoy your YT channel by the way!)
Old Nick is a slang term for the Devil.
I recall the 'origin story' differently.
I'm sure I've read that 'Nick's copper' was copper with traces of a mysterious grey metal that made the copper difficult to work using Medieval technologies. The irony, of course, being that copper nickel alloys became very useful and valuable as time and tech progressed.
Does Tuefelskupfer mean devil's nickel?
@@KS-PNW devil's copper
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Thank you for this channel (and especially your older lecture videos) really taught me a lot and helped me a great deal on my investing journey
How to explain the dry world of finance in a entertaining way?
Ask Patrick Boyle
The Gupta name seems to have a criminal influence on its bearers, we had some Gupta brothers embezzle South Africa some years back after getting involved with the ex president
Hold the money in something like an escrow account until the goods have arrived and been verified.
LoL from Theranos, to ftx, to greensill, to Adani to this if there is a scam be assured there is an Indian involved at the top 🤣
Gotta love how they only investigated it thoroughly when it wasn’t Citibank on the hook
Doesn't make idiot gupta any less guilty dude. While I think citibsnk is one greedy bastard with lousy services, you do know that it will not be immune if it was exposed in this fraud?
Too big to fail, as they say.
Moral hazard - economics 101
Was wondering about that.. couldn't spend a few bucks to validate a half billion dollars deal until it's your own half billion dollars on the line? Ponzi scheme.
Obviously, wooden nickels must be made of mahogany, not pine, in order to retain their value. Pine counterfeits led to the collapse of the currency.
Still baffled about how they thought they were going to get away with this fraud... Ships come in eventually.
Its a shell game played at sea with cargos. The cargos are constantly being traded while they are at sea. They get a crude form of leverage by having twice as many cargos out at sea than they really have.
All they generally need to guarantee is that at the time of delivery, real cargos are going to real customers. The not real cargos inevitably end up being delivered to not-real customers who then inevitably put them back into the system.
As long as nobody makes a mistake, doesn't take it too far and doesn't examine the cargos, it will work for a long time.
@@Jim-Tuner let me see if I'm getting the idea right on that.
The'not real' folks I'm imagining are flippers, like house flippers who don't even look at the home. Try buy the shipment then try to sell it while it's still in sea. That's where the fake silver goes to. Then as they flop hands the real nickel is gathered and shuffled on the sea. Once a real seller comes, you can just swap the shipment to the real thing. That's the boat that gets inspected. Meanwhile, the flippers keep selling. So you can have 10 boats with 10 sellers with only 2 holding the real thing so long as 1. The right boat goes to the right place and 2. You don't have too many people start looking too closely. Fractional commodities.
If that's the case that sounds like a nightmare to manage and would make you feel like a genius if you can pull it off. It also means the flippers aren't really locking down the nickel market since their boats are just props.
@@Jim-Tuner It's like something from an episode of the Sopranos...only on a grander scale. Makes me wonder why they don't check the cargo at the port before it leaves and before payment is made. But I guess that's all part of the scam.
@@iandakariann It is like house flipping. A house flipper signs a contract with a buyer to deliver "A" house in a city in six months. The flipper can trade houses for six months as long as "A" house is available in the city that they can give the buyer at the end of the six months.
It probably works really well in a very liquid market for nickel with rising prices which is what existed while they were doing it.
@@Sean006 The main source of Nickel are Indonesia, Philippines, New Caledonia and Russia, None of them have a reputation for honest regulation or port officials.
Indian rich elites are always involved somehow. 😅
The Gupta name is well known in South Africa. That family basically pillaged the country during the Zuma years and I believe they continue to do so. The sa Guptas have since relocated to Dubai so the SA authorities are powerless to do anything. It’s somehow heartwarming to know these crooks have swindled more advanced nations…. Seems like the entire family should be behind bars.
Gupta literally means "secret". Its a whole class of people in India with a name rather than a family.
@@Jim-Tuner oh interesting, I didn't know that. 😂
By your logic, since you are singling out Gupta, all people with family names bankman, Holmes, Martins, musks, Paul are frauds.
After looking into the history of Credit Suisse and Swiss banking, I have come to the conclusion that the Swiss may be the most untrustworthy people in the finance industry.
that must be the reason so many foreigner deposit their money in swiss banks, i am sure
They hold majority of Indian politicians corruption money.
As a German, I can confirm that impression about Swiss banking! Swiss banks make a all the profit while Germany does all the work.
@@TremereTT
as a swiss i can confirm most germans do not trust the german government concerning banking. several times in the last century the german people lost all their savings because of ineptitude and lebensraum dreams of the german government. stripping off assets of ethnic minorities. etc
They're like goblins from harry potter world
Trafigura again! Back in 2010 I contacted the journalist involved in the investigation on what actually happened when the Proto Koala landed in Abidjan. Having expertise in dealing with airborne toxins, I was more than curious as to what was trying to be achieved. Sad to see yet again one of their "Projects" go badly. I will remind myself at some stage to shed a tear for their loss.
“Clay tablet beefs” 😂
This seemed too weird but it is true. Kupfernickel, meaning “Old Nick’s copper". Curious, I looked up Pumpernickel, which means farting devil. Nickel means nick, means the devil. Its durability, combined with its resistance to oxidization and corrosion, made it ideal for small, everyday objects like coins, filling in the role between copper and silver in terms of value for coinage, hence between a penny (copper) and a dime (silver).
TIL THIS.
Thanks.
The original U.S. five cent coin was the Half Dime (1794 - 1873), the original Cent and Half Cent were pure copper.
Pennies were British.
Present day 'nickels' are composed of 75% copper, 25% nickel. Such alloy was first used for the Three Cent Nickel of 1865 - 1889 and then the Five Cent Nickel of 1866 to present and, since 1965, has been the outer layers of 'copper nickel clad' Dimes and Quarter Dollars as well as Half Dollars from 1971 to present, the center layer being pure copper.
The U.S. Cent has been minted on planchets of zinc with a thin copper plating since mid 1982, replacing the bronze alloy that had been introduced in 1864.
Legit one of two UA-camrs who I look forward to seeing new videos from.
Who is the other?
Who’s the other… if you love him I trust your taste.
Say Money & Macro 🤞🏾
Should use irish pubs as clearing houses.
Diversify risk with irish whisky and scandi ice wine
These are the kind of people that banks trade with ,using our hard earned money ,and when they loose out our interest rates go up ,and when they make money they party and give themselves huge pay rises and perks
I was very disappointed in Credit Suisse that they weren’t one of the major players but was glad at minute 7:00 when they made an appearance.
To quote Boyle: “A financial scandal wouldn’t be a financial scandal without Credit Suisse.”
Was about to recommend some youtuber regarding some fraud by another Indian billionaire... only to find that I heard about it here a few days ago