What do you think respectful means? I saw a lot of condescension and passive aggression, especially from the blonde lady that exclusively chimed in with those kinds of talking points.
Life is not fair. It never has been it never will be. We keep pushing fairness because it feels right and feels good. Merit should be what we look at for most things. Race, sex, gender, culture and so on should not be in the equation Yes I understand this won't be received well. It wasn't in my psych and soc classes either
It’s not received well because you’re suggesting merit is how things work out if we just ignore all those other factors. History tells a very different story.
This is, on its face, true but ignores factors that institutionalized racism has disproportionately affected black people. This isn’t just a “life is unfair” problem, this is rooted in systems we’ve had in place that have prevented black people from thriving in this country.
Yes, Affirmative action attempted to give blacks and others greater opportunities, but it relied on race as an advantage in the selection process, which is a direct violation of the equal protection clause of the Constitution.
yes, that's the root of the problem. It's a pitty that no one of them even thought of questionning that. Any affirmative action should be based on neutral parameters like income. That's what we've always done in France.
The bigger story around affirmative action is the reality that despite it having been a Federally enforced policy for more than half a century, it really hasn't made the difference it was intended to make.
@@etherstrip you’re right, that’s true about women un french large companies. I guess I was thinking about DEI as it’s practiced in the US, targeting marginalized group such as different ethnicities or LGBTQIA+. Women’s reprensentation sounds kind of dated nowdays 😅 About different ethicities, in France we are not even allowed to make statistics based in these caracteristics (wich would make this course impossible in my country).
my parents came to america poor af and made alot of sacrifices so i can do better in school. There is no reason why others cannot do the same. It's all about the culture and values. Certain cultures are just better
Slippery slope to ethnic cleansing. How about pointing out the personal responsibility to being successful instead of a blanket statement about large group of people.
@legendary_soup4454 Culture is not the same as ethnicity. Southern culture in the US is distinct from NY City culture. LA culture is not the same as Chicago culture. Texas culture is different from both the traditional Southern culture & from Southwestern culture. Every one of those regions are in the same country, the US, & have diverse ethnic communities within them yet have separate, identifiable cultures from one another.
@@richardavery4692 Culture is a very ambiguous term it can be as small as family groups all the way up to continental groups. The point I am making is it is never a good idea to make generalizations that one "Culture" is better than another. There are good and bad things in all cultures.
@@legendary_soup4454 Your original point was about ethnicity. That's what I responded to. If you want to discuss the obvious fact that all cultures have positive aspects, we agree. However, even if a culture places a high value on charitable acts of service for the poor while also openly embracing pedophilia or canabalism, I'm still saying it's not a good culture.
@@legendary_soup4454You can have a hierachy without eugenics or cleansing the bottom of the hierarchy... This apart from culture not being innate like race or sex. You can change your culture and a dopt a better working one
@@sharidivinity2500 maybe. Though, at the start of most conversations, there is never a delineation of those guidelines in normal person to person conversation.
I was an instructor in the Army Resilience Program that Originated at Penn State. During the Train the trainer certification you go through exercises to identify your deep rooted values. Fairness was one of my top 3. Naturally I loved that she chose this as her "hill to die on".
How is it fair that a a college degree is considered the golden ticket to success to the point where people that don't have one are instantly devalued as a human being. There are lots of paths to top. We're currently trying to funnel everyone through one path and telling people that the other's will never get you anywhere. How about we acknowledge that having a college degree doesn't guarantee a better outcome than not having one no matter how well you do in your classes.
@@Caddyleadz If you don’t see people devaluing career paths that don’t require a college degree it has to be willful ignorance. There is no other way to explain how you’re missing it.
It is good that this is finally being talked about in a structured conversation. My parents were poor, and Aviation Flight was out of reach for that income without loans and grants. All the loans and grants that i could get would have been enough but I was the wrong skin color, took me a long time but have been a Pilot for 30+ years now. I will never forget the feeling in my stomach when I heard the words, you are the wrong skin color.. Not right!
that’s actually a way better way of looking at it. most people just dismiss you as bigoted if you say that but we arnt bigoted when we tell our kids life isn’t fair… we’re realistic
Most of the people in the top 1% are doctors, dentists, lawyers, engineers, etc. so there is a genetic component. People with advanced degrees tend to talk with their children using larger vocabularies, have higher academic expectations, are more able to help their children with homework, and are more likely to be able to support a stay-at-home parent with a college degree (people with college degrees tend to marry people with college degrees, high school dropouts with dropouts), and are more likely to be able to afford to pay for tuition, etc.
Equal outcomes means something is unfair. Because human beings are fundamentally different and individual with different skills and talents. A fair system hence should have unequal outcomes if it is to respect the unequal nature of individuals. What we need to be focused on is equality of opportunity, but to be focused in equality of ourcome is fundamentally unfair. That being said though it is true that kids may have poor access to early education and equality of access to education is an equality of opportunity problem.
Here's the thing, no two people are the same. Meaning, if two people apply, for the same thing, ONE person will have a slight edge over the other. 0% can you have two people applying with absolutely identical achievements. But now, because we have to check boxes to have X amount of colored people you can NOW have a situation where someone who's "better", on paper, get denied because we "need" more diversity or colored people.
It's painful to see a student in one of the best universities in the world repeatedly use the word 'like' to form meaningful sentences and convey his/her thoughts.
I'm blown away by the lack of knowledge and communication skills by these Penn State students. My son did a brilliant paper and presentation on affirmative action in high school. He didn't graduate college, but he could speak on any of these topics eloquently. Think of Charlie Kirk. What's going on?
LIke, I don't know, like, what are you, like talking about, like, really, like dude! Like, this is like, hard man, I mean like, "yeah", like you know what I mean? Like, is this like real? Like, like , like, really man, like bro, you know, like really bro.
Part of the problem, and perhaps why the issue of equity has become so contentious, is that in the political conversation it has become out equality of outcomes rather than fairness.
I got in u of Iowa, back in 1990 due to affirmative action, and I feel I was trying very hard but barely getting -b. I always felt it’s a me problem. Now I feel it’s the wrong school, and because of that I change my major from lucrative MIS to useless marketing. So I got less of a good start.
I don't know how to say this without coming across as racist but considering that when we colonized the Americas we had technology light years ahead of the Natives doesn't it make sense that the difference was with the ideology/phylosphy of the cultures? If a European/middle eastern culture breeds innovation and technological advancement and a native tribal culture does not. Is that not just the way it is? In otherwords the problem isn't a problem any more than looking at a white family living in the backwoods of Wyoming is a problem when compared to the white family living in a highrise in manhattan. This is a free country and if you want to live like that you are welcome to. As long as we do not have laws/systems that preclude Natives from moving forward it isn't a problem we even need to fix.
Culture is the biggest factor in national wealth or poverty. Yes, large numbers of native Americans choose poverty. This is true all over including the inner cities. It's all about culture. Most Asian immigrants did not come with college degrees. The Indians were Stone Age people and remained stone age people until the West was conquered.
I got in u of Iowa, back in 1990 due to affirmative action, and I never feel I was trying very hard but barely getting -b. I always felt it’s a me problem. Now I feel it’s the wrong school, and because of that I change my major from lucrative MIS to useless marketing. So I got less of a good start.
Life isnt fair 🤷. But guess what? When the most qualified people put out the highest quality work, it moves the ball foward for everone. Regusrdless of race, gender, etc.
The black girl went to the same high school as white and Asian kids. She had the same advantages by going to that school. Why should she get preference for admission to Ivy League schools if she is not as qualified, because of her race? She had exactly the same situation as the white students, yet she gets preference?
Are you stupid? I'm not even going to try to have a good faith argument with you because your comment just reeks of scumbag. You didn't actually counter his point in any way. You just said it wasn't true because you're a weak little boy that can't actually use his words to make a point... Are you a victim because you're black? I didn't realize that melanin made you weak.🤷 @@TinWooman
I wanted to make the statement that affirmative action is mainly race based and that there is a point based scale on how likely you are to get into schools, but I kinda forgot some things here and there talking in front of so many ppl 😅
like, you know, like over there, like we love DEi, think yeah like lock it in, like yeah, so like watch your brain like liquify, like now... Like Pen Like State Like go!
The correct answer to how are the test scores fair is: that is irrelevant. You're looking solely at performance numbers. Fairness is irrelevant to that.
The fairness comes in the fact that everyone is allowed to take the test. It's insane that people have gone from the goal to have equality of opportunity to equality of outcome
why is this conversation important? because it's a major thing being done in the country. Airline pilots are getting picked because of equity, doctors, vice presidents, supreme court nominees. and it's important for everyone to understand the concepts behind the conversation. if students graduate knowing how to fix a computer but not understanding why a company isn't hiring them, or why seemingly incompetent people are getting picked or promoted in certain areas... it's important to understand why the world is this way so you can understand how it's going to affect you, and how you can start to affect it.
I felt like there was an attempt to avoid anything adversarial, in so far as when a counter point was brought up (such how various groups were treated in the past), the topic just moved to the next. One of the biggest reasons for affirmative action was to focus specifically on a narrow set of perceived remaining slights against a narrow set of groups, ignoring all others. Had AA attempted to include American-Irish, American-Japanese, etc, there would be a stronger argument towards it being 'the best we have' per Jade's(?) words. Not attempting to flesh out the conception that one some impacted groups deserve fairness per this system feels like the biggest missed topic towards 'fairness.' The amount of work one puts in is a very neutral way to approach it, from the other side, because we all work to some degree, right? This still ignores the very brought up topic by Jade that this is for helping the groups that should need it the most due to historical events, which inherently ignores... most groups affected by historical events, ironically.
As someone of Irish American descent, I wholeheartedly disagree. If anything, expanding it even more would just further prove how nonsensical the concept is. You go from 20% of the population instantly becoming victims to 40% of the population. The fact that one in five Americans considers themselves a victim of the system, just based on their race, is already completely nonsensical... Like you said, we all work, to some degree. We judge based on the degree of the work. Not the melanin content of the worker
From my limited experience between private and public schools in high-school, the military, community college, and about 10 different Job areas.. one thing that's considered offensive to say, but plays a significant role is the culture you grew up in. What I mean by this.. Asians: typically pushed to excel in school, do the best. "Average White" Do what you can while not offending anyone, And last Black: If I don't succeed its was someone else fault, regardless of how much or little effort was put in. While I will readily state this is "stereotypical" I will also point out, Stereotypes DO NOT EXIST WITHOUT REASON!! The only way stereotypes go away is for there not to be enough people that fit them. DEI makes it feel like "I'm not black, therefore I have to score so much higher to even be considered" is the constant state of being.
life sucks. but, there is something you can do about it. it just takes hard work and sacrifice. For the ones here screaming "FAIRNESS!" don't make babies if you don't have the means for it. cause you making life more difficult for them. For the ones on here that like to break laws. is it really fair for you to do what you want and get away with it while suffer?
U.S. News reports, “The Pennsylvania State University--University Park's tuition. … The net price is the average cost of the university after aid and scholarship funds are discounted from the total cost, which come in on average at $31,237 for in-state students and $49,692 for out-of-state students receiving need-based aid.” Isn’t absurd that a university that teaches DEI (preaches DEI) has tuition costs that are in itself a barrier for students from Historically Disadvantaged Groups.
I would like to have the role that any money received for "just existing," whether it be through any form of social assistance, oil checks as mentioned in the previous comment or any other source, discussed in class. What role does it play in personal choice and historic factors? Does recieving money like this do more good than harm?
Not a fan of equity, but not everyone has the same opportunities. It can be because of the family you are born in, the education of your parents, the neighborhood you live in, and many other factors. There has to be something culturally involved as well. Because no matter where you look, in poor places, or rich places, in great districts, or horrible districts, the Asians are going to score best, the whites next, then Hispanics and then blacks. It is either cultural or genetic. I believe it is cultural.
A graphic that compares household income to test scores is not a good A->B relationship. I think a better prior would be to say: "what is the level of resources committed to childcare, broken down by type, in relation to your SAT scores/college prospects/future income." I suspect that the relationship would be logarithmic -- there will be a relationship but the law of diminishing returns exists. When you then relate that to income, of course -- low income means there is less disposable income to use towards education. The interesting question would be how many like situations exist in society where other similar income situations allow individuals in America to break that generational inertia. What would the number need to be for us to consider that fair? Obviously it can't be 50/50 -- because if there was no point in your gathering wealth and using those resources, then why even bother?
The sound system is built into the room and used by a variety of instructors, TAs, and private groups. We don't control them beyond a master control. We should have gotten Colin to move his microphone back, but there's a balance with making it natural. We didn't think it was a big enough issue to correct. Notes have been taken :)
I can't speak for all Native American's or tribes but will tell you about the Ute tribe (Northeast Utah). Individual members and single families are very poor. I'm the only one in my extended family with a degree. Neither of my sisters, none of my cousins, aunts, uncles or grandparents (on my mother's side) have a degree; many never finished high school. Family beyond that are all similar. Although most of us only have a tiny fraction of Ute in us (exception is one of my aunts married a half Ute, half European) we were all raised in a similar environment to my mom's side of the family. If you drive around the Roosevelt/Vernal area it'll be very obvious that a lot of Ute tribe members are extremely poor.....and why. The area has a very harsh landscape. Extreme cold with high winds in the winter. Super hot in the summer so short growing season for vegetation. Also very little to do recreation wise. This leads to a lot of drug and alcohol problems in the region. Combine this with although individual members and families being poor, the tribe itself is very wealthy due to oil rights. Tribal members get regular checks from oil pumping from the tribe (some people try and claim the federal gov't gives them money; THIS IS FALSE!). There is zero incentive to work as working won't change anybody's financial standing in a significant way. Common lifestyle on the Ute reservation is to get your oil check > go on a 3/5/7 drunk bender > go buy a car with your left over money > total the car > buy enough cheap food to last until your next check. Rinse/repeat.
the degree vs wage stat is flawed for your reasoning. black PHDs, on average, make less money than asian PHDs. why? because black PHDs tend to be in education and asian PHDs tend to be in engineering and stem fields. just talk to an economist, this isn't complicated stuff. read some thomas sowell. ;-)
When folks equate everything to money and possessions, this is the outcome. Rise above this ridiculous nonsense, good people know, money doesn’t determine your happiness or success. It’s so sad to see young people sucked into this ridiculous notion.
It's really difficult for most people to speak in front of 700 people in the same room plus thousands watching the stream and VODs. Filler words will happen. I would bet it would happen to you too!
Mom always said, "The world doesn't owe you anything, nothing is free and life's not fair."
Your mom is wise and she truly wished you well
I'm really glad these types of conversations are happening in a respectful and educational manner with good intentions
What do you think respectful means? I saw a lot of condescension and passive aggression, especially from the blonde lady that exclusively chimed in with those kinds of talking points.
@@justing7490 lol snowflake
Life is not fair.
It never has been it never will be.
We keep pushing fairness because it feels right and feels good.
Merit should be what we look at for most things. Race, sex, gender, culture and so on should not be in the equation
Yes I understand this won't be received well. It wasn't in my psych and soc classes either
It’s not received well because you’re suggesting merit is how things work out if we just ignore all those other factors. History tells a very different story.
Yes because even if you try to consider all parameters in the equation you won't be able to. There will be always an aspect where something is unfair.
@noahh.3644 life is and always will be unfair even in "balancing"
the scales creates an imbalance.
Somethings will never be achieved
@josephfolkemer he's not suggesting that, you didn't read his first sentence?
@@josephfolkemerequity is IMPOSSIBLE
Every aspect of life is unequal. Every person is different/unequal with another.
This is, on its face, true but ignores factors that institutionalized racism has disproportionately affected black people. This isn’t just a “life is unfair” problem, this is rooted in systems we’ve had in place that have prevented black people from thriving in this country.
Yes, Affirmative action attempted to give blacks and others greater opportunities, but it relied on race as an advantage in the selection process, which is a direct violation of the equal protection clause of the Constitution.
Can’t discriminate based on race, unless it’s a white male. Then it’s ok 😂 but we’re not racist or sexist trust me bro
yes, that's the root of the problem. It's a pitty that no one of them even thought of questionning that. Any affirmative action should be based on neutral parameters like income. That's what we've always done in France.
The bigger story around affirmative action is the reality that despite it having been a Federally enforced policy for more than half a century, it really hasn't made the difference it was intended to make.
@@mary-gael7633 France? You mean the country where companies get a fine if their board has less than 40% women?
@@etherstrip you’re right, that’s true about women un french large companies. I guess I was thinking about DEI as it’s practiced in the US, targeting marginalized group such as different ethnicities or LGBTQIA+. Women’s reprensentation sounds kind of dated nowdays 😅
About different ethicities, in France we are not even allowed to make statistics based in these caracteristics (wich would make this course impossible in my country).
How about having some quotes from Thomas Sowell or Jordan Peterson to counter the female lecturer, for some fairness.
Amen. Or Glenn Loury for crying out loud.
Eww two literal anti intellectuals? Why
@@mood1676 Ummmmm.....two people with PhD's are anti-intellectual? Suuuuuuuure.
@@rcc737 yes… did you not know that was possible?
@rcc737 get professional help
my parents came to america poor af and made alot of sacrifices so i can do better in school. There is no reason why others cannot do the same. It's all about the culture and values. Certain cultures are just better
Slippery slope to ethnic cleansing. How about pointing out the personal responsibility to being successful instead of a blanket statement about large group of people.
@legendary_soup4454 Culture is not the same as ethnicity. Southern culture in the US is distinct from NY City culture. LA culture is not the same as Chicago culture. Texas culture is different from both the traditional Southern culture & from Southwestern culture. Every one of those regions are in the same country, the US, & have diverse ethnic communities within them yet have separate, identifiable cultures from one another.
@@richardavery4692 Culture is a very ambiguous term it can be as small as family groups all the way up to continental groups. The point I am making is it is never a good idea to make generalizations that one "Culture" is better than another. There are good and bad things in all cultures.
@@legendary_soup4454 Your original point was about ethnicity. That's what I responded to. If you want to discuss the obvious fact that all cultures have positive aspects, we agree. However, even if a culture places a high value on charitable acts of service for the poor while also openly embracing pedophilia or canabalism, I'm still saying it's not a good culture.
@@legendary_soup4454You can have a hierachy without eugenics or cleansing the bottom of the hierarchy...
This apart from culture not being innate like race or sex. You can change your culture and a dopt a better working one
There should have been a section at the beginning to clearly define the difference between 'Equity' and 'Equality'.
@sharidivinity2500 I'd say people understand English enough to know the meaning otherwise the lecture is probably not for them anyway
@@sharidivinity2500 maybe. Though, at the start of most conversations, there is never a delineation of those guidelines in normal person to person conversation.
These class discussions are very informative and the professor is balanced.
I was an instructor in the Army Resilience Program that Originated at Penn State. During the Train the trainer certification you go through exercises to identify your deep rooted values. Fairness was one of my top 3. Naturally I loved that she chose this as her "hill to die on".
Can you correct unfairness by being unfair? Do two wrongs make a right? That would be my question in regards to this conversation.
How is it fair that a a college degree is considered the golden ticket to success to the point where people that don't have one are instantly devalued as a human being.
There are lots of paths to top. We're currently trying to funnel everyone through one path and telling people that the other's will never get you anywhere.
How about we acknowledge that having a college degree doesn't guarantee a better outcome than not having one no matter how well you do in your classes.
Who's doing the devaluing? Sounds like it only exists if you believe in it. :3
@@Caddyleadz If you don’t see people devaluing career paths that don’t require a college degree it has to be willful ignorance. There is no other way to explain how you’re missing it.
It's capitalism - supply and demand.
It is good that this is finally being talked about in a structured conversation. My parents were poor, and Aviation Flight was out of reach for that income without loans and grants. All the loans and grants that i could get would have been enough but I was the wrong skin color, took me a long time but have been a Pilot for 30+ years now. I will never forget the feeling in my stomach when I heard the words, you are the wrong skin color.. Not right!
She literally said it at the beginning, it’s a little kid mentality. That’s not how life works. Life isn’t fair, nobody cares work harder.
that’s actually a way better way of looking at it. most people just dismiss you as bigoted if you say that but we arnt bigoted when we tell our kids life isn’t fair… we’re realistic
I tell my kids this all the time. You get out what you put in. Surround yourself with better people and you'll be a better person.
Most of the people in the top 1% are doctors, dentists, lawyers, engineers, etc. so there is a genetic component. People with advanced degrees tend to talk with their children using larger vocabularies, have higher academic expectations, are more able to help their children with homework, and are more likely to be able to support a stay-at-home parent with a college degree (people with college degrees tend to marry people with college degrees, high school dropouts with dropouts), and are more likely to be able to afford to pay for tuition, etc.
Equal outcomes means something is unfair. Because human beings are fundamentally different and individual with different skills and talents. A fair system hence should have unequal outcomes if it is to respect the unequal nature of individuals.
What we need to be focused on is equality of opportunity, but to be focused in equality of ourcome is fundamentally unfair.
That being said though it is true that kids may have poor access to early education and equality of access to education is an equality of opportunity problem.
@@mornnb This is a phenomenal comment.
The more the government does for you, the more poor you become.
Thank you for FINALLY telling Colin to move the mic back.
Wow thanks 😂
Equity today means the outcomes are the same. It does not mean fairness.
Equity by definition is not fair nor equal and is the enemy of equality and fairness.
If there aren't enough seats for everybody there is no fairness.
Culture.
Here's the thing, no two people are the same. Meaning, if two people apply, for the same thing, ONE person will have a slight edge over the other. 0% can you have two people applying with absolutely identical achievements. But now, because we have to check boxes to have X amount of colored people you can NOW have a situation where someone who's "better", on paper, get denied because we "need" more diversity or colored people.
was thinking this as it relates to sports as well. Some are faster, some are taller... it is what it is. Figure it out.
It's painful to see a student in one of the best universities in the world repeatedly use the word 'like' to form meaningful sentences and convey his/her thoughts.
It's just the new "errr/ummm" (filler word). Get off your high horse
I'm blown away by the lack of knowledge and communication skills by these Penn State students. My son did a brilliant paper and presentation on affirmative action in high school. He didn't graduate college, but he could speak on any of these topics eloquently. Think of Charlie Kirk.
What's going on?
LIke, I don't know, like, what are you, like talking about, like, really, like dude! Like, this is like, hard man, I mean like, "yeah", like you know what I mean? Like, is this like real? Like, like , like, really man, like bro, you know, like really bro.
@bigwilson8794 😆 sad and hilarious
If we had 5 dollars for every "like", Americans would be able to fund reparations
Jade is so desperate to justify how not racist it is that she gets a leg up due to her skin color.
Imagine going into debt for an education and still not being able to speak without saying, "like... like... like." Ridiculous!
Or literally, literally, literally
This guy is the luckiest ever
His wife is so cool and he is so cool
Parent focus on the child makes a huge difference. Also having counselors is important. I bet the numbers reflect 5his.
Part of the problem, and perhaps why the issue of equity has become so contentious, is that in the political conversation it has become out equality of outcomes rather than fairness.
I got in u of Iowa, back in 1990 due to affirmative action, and I feel I was trying very hard but barely getting -b. I always felt it’s a me problem. Now I feel it’s the wrong school, and because of that I change my major from lucrative MIS to useless marketing. So I got less of a good start.
I don't know how to say this without coming across as racist but considering that when we colonized the Americas we had technology light years ahead of the Natives doesn't it make sense that the difference was with the ideology/phylosphy of the cultures? If a European/middle eastern culture breeds innovation and technological advancement and a native tribal culture does not. Is that not just the way it is? In otherwords the problem isn't a problem any more than looking at a white family living in the backwoods of Wyoming is a problem when compared to the white family living in a highrise in manhattan. This is a free country and if you want to live like that you are welcome to. As long as we do not have laws/systems that preclude Natives from moving forward it isn't a problem we even need to fix.
Stop telling them to put the mic closer! It's loud enough. The guy in the crowd had a good distance. I could hear him clearly.
Culture is the biggest factor in national wealth or poverty. Yes, large numbers of native Americans choose poverty. This is true all over including the inner cities. It's all about culture. Most Asian immigrants did not come with college degrees. The Indians were Stone Age people and remained stone age people until the West was conquered.
I got in u of Iowa, back in 1990 due to affirmative action, and I never feel I was trying very hard but barely getting -b. I always felt it’s a me problem. Now I feel it’s the wrong school, and because of that I change my major from lucrative MIS to useless marketing. So I got less of a good start.
Life isnt fair 🤷. But guess what? When the most qualified people put out the highest quality work, it moves the ball foward for everone. Regusrdless of race, gender, etc.
The black girl went to the same high school as white and Asian kids. She had the same advantages by going to that school. Why should she get preference for admission to Ivy League schools if she is not as qualified, because of her race? She had exactly the same situation as the white students, yet she gets preference?
@jiminauburn5073 Yeah, that’s not true.
Are you stupid? I'm not even going to try to have a good faith argument with you because your comment just reeks of scumbag. You didn't actually counter his point in any way. You just said it wasn't true because you're a weak little boy that can't actually use his words to make a point...
Are you a victim because you're black? I didn't realize that melanin made you weak.🤷 @@TinWooman
I wanted to make the statement that affirmative action is mainly race based and that there is a point based scale on how likely you are to get into schools, but I kinda forgot some things here and there talking in front of so many ppl 😅
It is tough to be in front of so many and not forget things. You did fine.
Wow! Huge class. How many students?
Really hard to watch with all of the “like” every other word!
I would bet a lot of money you’d be in a similar boat :)
@@jeff8124
Nope. That's what freshman Speech 101 was for.
how many times can you say "like" in your statement?
It's a filler word. Most people use them on a constant basis.
like, you know, like over there, like we love DEi, think yeah like lock it in, like yeah, so like watch your brain like liquify, like now... Like Pen Like State Like go!
I think most of us can agree that there's usually no easy answer to any of the topics in these videos. These are complex topics with a lot of overlap.
The correct answer to how are the test scores fair is: that is irrelevant. You're looking solely at performance numbers. Fairness is irrelevant to that.
The fairness comes in the fact that everyone is allowed to take the test. It's insane that people have gone from the goal to have equality of opportunity to equality of outcome
why is this conversation important? because it's a major thing being done in the country. Airline pilots are getting picked because of equity, doctors, vice presidents, supreme court nominees. and it's important for everyone to understand the concepts behind the conversation. if students graduate knowing how to fix a computer but not understanding why a company isn't hiring them, or why seemingly incompetent people are getting picked or promoted in certain areas... it's important to understand why the world is this way so you can understand how it's going to affect you, and how you can start to affect it.
An interesting game: Count the number of "likes" each student uses. Greatest number wins the prize.
I felt like there was an attempt to avoid anything adversarial, in so far as when a counter point was brought up (such how various groups were treated in the past), the topic just moved to the next.
One of the biggest reasons for affirmative action was to focus specifically on a narrow set of perceived remaining slights against a narrow set of groups, ignoring all others.
Had AA attempted to include American-Irish, American-Japanese, etc, there would be a stronger argument towards it being 'the best we have' per Jade's(?) words.
Not attempting to flesh out the conception that one some impacted groups deserve fairness per this system feels like the biggest missed topic towards 'fairness.'
The amount of work one puts in is a very neutral way to approach it, from the other side, because we all work to some degree, right?
This still ignores the very brought up topic by Jade that this is for helping the groups that should need it the most due to historical events, which inherently ignores... most groups affected by historical events, ironically.
As someone of Irish American descent, I wholeheartedly disagree. If anything, expanding it even more would just further prove how nonsensical the concept is. You go from 20% of the population instantly becoming victims to 40% of the population. The fact that one in five Americans considers themselves a victim of the system, just based on their race, is already completely nonsensical...
Like you said, we all work, to some degree. We judge based on the degree of the work. Not the melanin content of the worker
From my limited experience between private and public schools in high-school, the military, community college, and about 10 different Job areas.. one thing that's considered offensive to say, but plays a significant role is the culture you grew up in. What I mean by this.. Asians: typically pushed to excel in school, do the best. "Average White" Do what you can while not offending anyone, And last Black: If I don't succeed its was someone else fault, regardless of how much or little effort was put in. While I will readily state this is "stereotypical" I will also point out, Stereotypes DO NOT EXIST WITHOUT REASON!! The only way stereotypes go away is for there not to be enough people that fit them. DEI makes it feel like "I'm not black, therefore I have to score so much higher to even be considered" is the constant state of being.
life sucks. but, there is something you can do about it.
it just takes hard work and sacrifice.
For the ones here screaming "FAIRNESS!"
don't make babies if you don't have the means for it. cause you making life more difficult for them.
For the ones on here that like to break laws.
is it really fair for you to do what you want and get away with it while suffer?
How sad that a person is fearful about making assumptions about a person's ancestry (27:00). That is really effed up.
Yep. Because if you get it wrong, that somehow makes you a bad person.
Stop saying like, like every sentence, like.
U.S. News reports, “The Pennsylvania State University--University Park's tuition. … The net price is the average cost of the university after aid and scholarship funds are discounted from the total cost, which come in on average at $31,237 for in-state students and $49,692 for out-of-state students receiving need-based aid.”
Isn’t absurd that a university that teaches DEI (preaches DEI) has tuition costs that are in itself a barrier for students from Historically Disadvantaged Groups.
I would like to have the role that any money received for "just existing," whether it be through any form of social assistance, oil checks as mentioned in the previous comment or any other source, discussed in class. What role does it play in personal choice and historic factors? Does recieving money like this do more good than harm?
Is hard to believe some students from Penn State overused the word “LIKE”, “LIKE”; “LIKE” Liiiiike middle High School 😆!
...and the professor uses phrases like "bro" or "dude"....it's like, ya know!
we are a very lost country if are youth equates merit and equity, you can’t control outcomes, you can only control opportunities that lead to outcomes
Not a fan of equity, but not everyone has the same opportunities. It can be because of the family you are born in, the education of your parents, the neighborhood you live in, and many other factors. There has to be something culturally involved as well. Because no matter where you look, in poor places, or rich places, in great districts, or horrible districts, the Asians are going to score best, the whites next, then Hispanics and then blacks. It is either cultural or genetic. I believe it is cultural.
@@jiminauburn5073 me either man
These students almost seem afraid and definitely nervous to speak their mind.
100% not a true thought was spoken
How many times did Arjun say "like". Did anybody count?
Ah, this is a great lecture. I just wish Colin's microphone wasn't so static-y. 😅
A graphic that compares household income to test scores is not a good A->B relationship. I think a better prior would be to say: "what is the level of resources committed to childcare, broken down by type, in relation to your SAT scores/college prospects/future income." I suspect that the relationship would be logarithmic -- there will be a relationship but the law of diminishing returns exists.
When you then relate that to income, of course -- low income means there is less disposable income to use towards education. The interesting question would be how many like situations exist in society where other similar income situations allow individuals in America to break that generational inertia. What would the number need to be for us to consider that fair? Obviously it can't be 50/50 -- because if there was no point in your gathering wealth and using those resources, then why even bother?
What the heck is black and white????? Neither cultural or race???
Did this lady REALLY tell a student in a class supposed to be designed for them to answer for themselves "Repeat after me." ?
She was telling Sam to repeat after her. She is trying to help his facilitation skills :)
Take a shot for every "like"
Fairness and equity are not the same thing.
you guys need a better sound guy. also, so many people sleeping and so many of the kids say like so often
The sound system is built into the room and used by a variety of instructors, TAs, and private groups. We don't control them beyond a master control. We should have gotten Colin to move his microphone back, but there's a balance with making it natural. We didn't think it was a big enough issue to correct. Notes have been taken :)
I can't speak for all Native American's or tribes but will tell you about the Ute tribe (Northeast Utah). Individual members and single families are very poor. I'm the only one in my extended family with a degree. Neither of my sisters, none of my cousins, aunts, uncles or grandparents (on my mother's side) have a degree; many never finished high school. Family beyond that are all similar. Although most of us only have a tiny fraction of Ute in us (exception is one of my aunts married a half Ute, half European) we were all raised in a similar environment to my mom's side of the family. If you drive around the Roosevelt/Vernal area it'll be very obvious that a lot of Ute tribe members are extremely poor.....and why.
The area has a very harsh landscape. Extreme cold with high winds in the winter. Super hot in the summer so short growing season for vegetation. Also very little to do recreation wise. This leads to a lot of drug and alcohol problems in the region. Combine this with although individual members and families being poor, the tribe itself is very wealthy due to oil rights. Tribal members get regular checks from oil pumping from the tribe (some people try and claim the federal gov't gives them money; THIS IS FALSE!). There is zero incentive to work as working won't change anybody's financial standing in a significant way.
Common lifestyle on the Ute reservation is to get your oil check > go on a 3/5/7 drunk bender > go buy a car with your left over money > total the car > buy enough cheap food to last until your next check. Rinse/repeat.
the degree vs wage stat is flawed for your reasoning. black PHDs, on average, make less money than asian PHDs. why? because black PHDs tend to be in education and asian PHDs tend to be in engineering and stem fields. just talk to an economist, this isn't complicated stuff. read some thomas sowell. ;-)
Word of the day: "Like" 😐
When folks equate everything to money and possessions, this is the outcome. Rise above this ridiculous nonsense, good people know, money doesn’t determine your happiness or success. It’s so sad to see young people sucked into this ridiculous notion.
Equity is providing access
like, like, like, like, like.... Please stop using fillers.
It's really difficult for most people to speak in front of 700 people in the same room plus thousands watching the stream and VODs. Filler words will happen. I would bet it would happen to you too!
It's not fair = you are not playing by the established rules
Is that guy on the left seriously sleeping in the front row?? Of all places???
Like.
You mean a child’s notion of fairness?
19:38 guy in the corner 😴😴😂😂
Are these like, students like, in university like, that's crazy man! like...
Like like like like like like like like like like
Not Jamaican.
Equity is a really bad goal and highly destructive. Nothing is equal and life will never be fair. This woman is delusional.
Do the students even care to be there ? No talking lol
The whistle though