Scintillation detectors are quite sensitive. Not only do their readings differ with temperature, but even bumping the detector off a hard surface is enough to throw the calibration off. As is, it will work fine for common isotope identification for the general user. If a higher level of accuracy is required, the device can be manually re-calibrated using known source material. I believe the device updates once every 5 seconds by default, you can change it to once per second in the settings. Reading gamma spectrums is a bit of an artform and takes a lot of practice. The Americium-241 spectrum was very obvious, but the background spectrum didn't contain any of those highlighted isotopes. It was just a broad continuum of X-rays. One has to take into account decay products, backscatter, compton edges, and background readings to make accurate isotope identifications.
I thought I had read that the background spectrum is partially resonance, and specific to each crystal type, i.e. some of it isn't actual rays coming into it.
@@gblargg Some of the reading will be from the material of the detector itself and the exact energy of that noise will be dependent on what material the crystal is made from, but in general the energy will be very low. You are unlikely to see it in the recorded spectrum as it will be vastly overshadowed by the natural X-ray background. The only time I would expect to see the Crystal's spectrum visible is if the detector is placed within a Z-graded Lead Castle or similar background shielding material.
From my experience, most of what you get from the crystals/tube themselves (depending on type) appears in the annihilation peak so it’s easily discounted.
Yes, especially the limited energy resolution of scintillators is an issue if you've got more than just a couple peaks next to each other. They very easily merge together until you cannot see any distinct peaks. So it works best if all the peaks are spaced from each other with enough room for to 7-8% energy resolution.
It is difficult for me to imagine the mechanism for a modest mechanical shock to the crystal actually miscalibrating it, short of physical damage such as cracking. What is the mechanism by which this is possible?
Actually you sample the background for a long time and save it then sample the whatever item you wand and then subtract the background and you're left with what's in the the sample.
Silicon photomultipliers are quite common now. Only issue is they're not available in large sizes, so for big crystals you're still using PMTs. Other than that SiPMs are the standard now.
Dave I have a fusor. I can use it to activate materials then record the gamma spec as the newly activated material decays. The 102 is ok but longer duration stuff, not a scratch on my big scintillator with 50kg of lead around it of course.
Nice overview of a very intriguing sensor. Mapping feature a bonus. Looks like the refresh rate is adjustable? Screenshots showed it set to auto every 10 secs. Quick response from the Smoke detector source.
Observers have noted that the Cesium Iodide scintillator, used in these device models, can distinguish gamma ray energy proffering identity of radioactive sources. There is no photomultiplier, but instead an array of photodiodes the may be biased to approach avalanche. Summing pulses can be configured to pretend to emulate a photomultiplier. Technically spectrometric identification can be done, but since there are about 1000 gamma and X rays in the "everyday" world there is only contrived hope of identifying anything. Typically contrived, the industry model is to construct a test that is best described as "if you know the answer then you can make the machine tell you that answer. The fundamental problem with identification is gross ambiguity due to small detector size, low quantum efficiency, resolution killing noise, temperature variations, fingerprint overlap, and more. What utility is remaining is a dose estimate which is sold as at least somehow useful. Yes dose rates are useful but you will find the utility is that government users will note alarms on radioactive medical patients and not nuclear threats thereby quickly retraining the users to ignore the results. Owning one thereafter is a status symbol purporting to divine secrets that by far most operators are not privy to. Unambiguous emitted gamma ray identification from commercial products and nuclear threat items (e.g. WMD) is commercially available, however it is not done with cesium iodide, sodium iodide, cadmium telluride, perovskites, geigers, or confabulations of such.
I took my radiacode in a shopping mall, and the radiacode was low, not clicking, then I went in a store rocks and gems, and it went high in radiation. The most interesting was look with radiacode rocks that cost .50 cents mixing dark rock noticed high reading when I separated was low ?
Walking nearby dentists or radiologists might give you some peaks as it can detect their machines from quiet a few meters away. Also some people who just had a SPECT or PEP scan are quite "hot" and will also trigger an alarm from a few meters away.
The propane tanks at a Lowe's store were all radioactive. Only hot thing I've found in the field, aside from known things like smoke detectors and potassium salt in the supermarket.
The PC software is kinda neglected as pretty much everyone uses the mobile app, so that's where all their development effort has gone. It's a lot more refined, feature complete and stable. Also jives with the portable form factor, it's small so you can take it every as an EDC, lugging a computer around as well defeats the point. (Although there are some advanced tools exclusive to the PC software) (Please don't shadow ban this one UA-cam pretty please)
Eh, not sure if that's really worth the upsell. The energy resolution they are advertising should be easily doable with a standard CsI or NaI scintillator, like the one they're using with the current devices. The only real advantage is the higher efficiency, if that really makes a measurable difference then it might be worth it, because that would really make it a lot better yet again.
Pretty funky! Far more functional than those old totally tubular meters of the '50s/'60s. That's americium. You-Ess-Ay! You-Ess-Ay! Not francium, not germanium, not polonium and certainly not chinesium.
Dave if you want to see one of these getting a workout, there is this funny Ukrainian group of fellas on UA-cam called “Kreosan” that explore old nuclear sites around Ukraine including Chernobyl. Worth watching.
Radiacode is or was Russian, not sure where they are built now. Looks very nice, but for the price, still a bit pricey for me, would love to have one thou.
@@yeet1337 That is good, the product looks fantastic. I am amazed at the small size, my antique spectrometer is a manual McPhar TV-1A and only 3 channels kind of, and huge
@@filipamator Americans still buy cars and technology with parts made in China, a communist country with a long history of murdering and torturing it's own citizens. Americans are not suddenly refusing to use their cell phone that are made in China by workers expected to work 14 hours, 7 days a week. The bigger Chinese companies have their employees live at the factory, so employees have more time to work for barely a few dollars a day. The factory making iPhones had to install nets around the buildings because so many workers were committing suicide, by jumping from windows. The moral indignation only applies to products others buy or an item someone thought about buying, but doesn't really need. The judgments disappear when someone thinks they can't live without the newest IPhone, new graphics card or bigger TV. People who make the most noise about buying "Made in America" products, are no different than anyone else, 90 percent of what they own was made in others countries. It's easy to give a moral speech about something you can live without, but when it's personal comfort versus evil country or manufacturer, evil will always win.
Well, gamma is by far the most useful. Maybe beta would be neat too, but you really don't need alpha and neutron detection in 99% of all use cases. Except you're working on a nuclear reactor in your home maybe 😆
You're probably not going to measure anything, Fukushima fall out wasn't too bad, especially compared to Chernobyl. And by now, all the fallout is either gone or got dilluted so much it's pointless to measure. I'd be more concern by heavy metals or micro plastics in tuna.
Scintillation detectors are quite sensitive. Not only do their readings differ with temperature, but even bumping the detector off a hard surface is enough to throw the calibration off. As is, it will work fine for common isotope identification for the general user. If a higher level of accuracy is required, the device can be manually re-calibrated using known source material.
I believe the device updates once every 5 seconds by default, you can change it to once per second in the settings.
Reading gamma spectrums is a bit of an artform and takes a lot of practice. The Americium-241 spectrum was very obvious, but the background spectrum didn't contain any of those highlighted isotopes. It was just a broad continuum of X-rays. One has to take into account decay products, backscatter, compton edges, and background readings to make accurate isotope identifications.
I thought I had read that the background spectrum is partially resonance, and specific to each crystal type, i.e. some of it isn't actual rays coming into it.
@@gblargg Some of the reading will be from the material of the detector itself and the exact energy of that noise will be dependent on what material the crystal is made from, but in general the energy will be very low. You are unlikely to see it in the recorded spectrum as it will be vastly overshadowed by the natural X-ray background.
The only time I would expect to see the Crystal's spectrum visible is if the detector is placed within a Z-graded Lead Castle or similar background shielding material.
From my experience, most of what you get from the crystals/tube themselves (depending on type) appears in the annihilation peak so it’s easily discounted.
Yes, especially the limited energy resolution of scintillators is an issue if you've got more than just a couple peaks next to each other. They very easily merge together until you cannot see any distinct peaks. So it works best if all the peaks are spaced from each other with enough room for to 7-8% energy resolution.
It is difficult for me to imagine the mechanism for a modest mechanical shock to the crystal actually miscalibrating it, short of physical damage such as cracking. What is the mechanism by which this is possible?
Actually you sample the background for a long time and save it then sample the whatever item you wand and then subtract the background and you're left with what's in the the sample.
The Android phone app for this is really good too. I've been having a lot of fun messing around with uranium samples and whatnot. Cheers.
Normally scintillation counters have photomultiplier tubes. Pretty cool they were able to scale it down and lower the price.
Yeah, this one uses a photodiode of some description.
Bpw34 and other large Pins has been used for years, ideally multiple of them. Heavy light shielding, amplifier and you’re done. More or less.
Silicon photomultipliers are quite common now. Only issue is they're not available in large sizes, so for big crystals you're still using PMTs. Other than that SiPMs are the standard now.
Dave I have a fusor. I can use it to activate materials then record the gamma spec as the newly activated material decays. The 102 is ok but longer duration stuff, not a scratch on my big scintillator with 50kg of lead around it of course.
It’s probably based on Analog Devices’ GammaPhoton detector circuit. Uses a Fairchild PIN photodiode QSE773
Nice overview of a very intriguing sensor. Mapping feature a bonus. Looks like the refresh rate is adjustable? Screenshots showed it set to auto every 10 secs. Quick response from the Smoke detector source.
Ah, I missed the auto bit, maybe if nothing changes it doesn't update. Would explain why it updated every second at the start.
Pronounced Ama-Ree-See-Um
I see I'm roughly seventeen minutes too late..
Umm, actually it is Americium (like in found first in America) so: Ame-Ree-See-Um.
Observers have noted that the Cesium Iodide scintillator, used in these device models, can distinguish gamma ray energy proffering identity of radioactive sources. There is no photomultiplier, but instead an array of photodiodes the may be biased to approach avalanche. Summing pulses can be configured to pretend to emulate a photomultiplier. Technically spectrometric identification can be done, but since there are about 1000 gamma and X rays in the "everyday" world there is only contrived hope of identifying anything. Typically contrived, the industry model is to construct a test that is best described as "if you know the answer then you can make the machine tell you that answer. The fundamental problem with identification is gross ambiguity due to small detector size, low quantum efficiency, resolution killing noise, temperature variations, fingerprint overlap, and more. What utility is remaining is a dose estimate which is sold as at least somehow useful. Yes dose rates are useful but you will find the utility is that government users will note alarms on radioactive medical patients and not nuclear threats thereby quickly retraining the users to ignore the results. Owning one thereafter is a status symbol purporting to divine secrets that by far most operators are not privy to. Unambiguous emitted gamma ray identification from commercial products and nuclear threat items (e.g. WMD) is commercially available, however it is not done with cesium iodide, sodium iodide, cadmium telluride, perovskites, geigers, or confabulations of such.
I took my radiacode in a shopping mall, and the radiacode was low, not clicking, then I went in a store rocks and gems, and it went high in radiation. The most interesting was look with radiacode rocks that cost .50 cents mixing dark rock noticed high reading when I separated was low ?
Walking nearby dentists or radiologists might give you some peaks as it can detect their machines from quiet a few meters away. Also some people who just had a SPECT or PEP scan are quite "hot" and will also trigger an alarm from a few meters away.
Yup, you never know when you're walking next to a person and suddenly the alarm goes off :D
I have the 102 essential as an edc. I suggest you try it. Strange sources everywhere. A particular Granit staircase set off the alarm every time…
The propane tanks at a Lowe's store were all radioactive. Only hot thing I've found in the field, aside from known things like smoke detectors and potassium salt in the supermarket.
@@gblargg Why are the propane tanks radioactive?
@@antoineroquentin2297 No idea, and ones at other places were not.
@@antoineroquentin2297 Probably contaminated with radon
The PC software is kinda neglected as pretty much everyone uses the mobile app, so that's where all their development effort has gone. It's a lot more refined, feature complete and stable. Also jives with the portable form factor, it's small so you can take it every as an EDC, lugging a computer around as well defeats the point. (Although there are some advanced tools exclusive to the PC software)
(Please don't shadow ban this one UA-cam pretty please)
Go for a walk to the dumpster room.
Actually don't. 😉
I must now....
We're getting closer to star trek tricorders every day
now we know you watch Radioactive Drew!
Who's Radioactive Drew?
@@EEVblog2 www.youtube.com/@RadioactiveDrew
Wait for the new 103g version.
Eh, not sure if that's really worth the upsell. The energy resolution they are advertising should be easily doable with a standard CsI or NaI scintillator, like the one they're using with the current devices. The only real advantage is the higher efficiency, if that really makes a measurable difference then it might be worth it, because that would really make it a lot better yet again.
Pretty funky! Far more functional than those old totally tubular meters of the '50s/'60s.
That's americium. You-Ess-Ay! You-Ess-Ay! Not francium, not germanium, not polonium and certainly not chinesium.
It seems to update every 10 seconds
As it says on top right of live spectrum view...
Dave if you want to see one of these getting a workout, there is this funny Ukrainian group of fellas on UA-cam called “Kreosan” that explore old nuclear sites around Ukraine including Chernobyl. Worth watching.
I want one for measuring my banana!
You only need a small ruler for that
Radiacode is or was Russian, not sure where they are built now. Looks very nice, but for the price, still a bit pricey for me, would love to have one thou.
They fled Russia and are now located in Cyprus, EU.
@@yeet1337 That is good, the product looks fantastic. I am amazed at the small size, my antique spectrometer is a manual McPhar TV-1A and only 3 channels kind of, and huge
@@yeet1337 Well that's strange. They fleed russia but still selling product with russian made components (scintillation crystal etc).
@@filipamator Obviously it's mostly for customs and tax reasons IMO.
@@filipamator Americans still buy cars and technology with parts made in China, a communist country with a long history of murdering and torturing it's own citizens. Americans are not suddenly refusing to use their cell phone that are made in China by workers expected to work 14 hours, 7 days a week. The bigger Chinese companies have their employees live at the factory, so employees have more time to work for barely a few dollars a day. The factory making iPhones had to install nets around the buildings because so many workers were committing suicide, by jumping from windows. The moral indignation only applies to products others buy or an item someone thought about buying, but doesn't really need. The judgments disappear when someone thinks they can't live without the newest IPhone, new graphics card or bigger TV. People who make the most noise about buying "Made in America" products, are no different than anyone else, 90 percent of what they own was made in others countries. It's easy to give a moral speech about something you can live without, but when it's personal comfort versus evil country or manufacturer, evil will always win.
only gamma :( no alpha, beta and neutrons - no fun :) i wander how much 4-way a+b+g+n spectrometer costs
Well, gamma is by far the most useful. Maybe beta would be neat too, but you really don't need alpha and neutron detection in 99% of all use cases. Except you're working on a nuclear reactor in your home maybe 😆
Would be fun to test a can of pacific blue fin tuna.. Fukushima fish fall out.. Crikey..
You're probably not going to measure anything, Fukushima fall out wasn't too bad, especially compared to Chernobyl. And by now, all the fallout is either gone or got dilluted so much it's pointless to measure. I'd be more concern by heavy metals or micro plastics in tuna.