@ Yeah there are a lot of ways around the ban lol. I run Zur, The Enchanter mostly for league and search for dumb stuff then drop demonic consultation/thassas 😂
Tutor’s are great. People complain that “tutor’s are just a second copy of any card in your deck”. If a green deck can run 4 copies of Llanowar Elves, then a Demonic Tutor or Vampiric Tutor is fine as well. It’s also not a copy, it’s a copy with a tax. Extra mana needed to pay for it, double the chance for it to be countered, and not guaranteed to play it on the same turn.
My favorite tutor is a close pick between Trinket Mage or Step Through. Both of these work great as tool box tutors and promote deck building with cards that don't normally make the 99
Step through is my absolute favorite tutor of all time both on a mechanical level plus on the level that wizard is my favorite creature type so having one of the mechanically best tutors being available for it exclusively is fantastic!
Transmute is probably one of my top 3 all time favorite mechanics that I would like to see make a comeback with iterations for multiple colors. Tolaria West and Muddle The Mixture kinda just go into all my blue decks despite the drawbacks of the cards themselves.
my favorite tutor is a commander called Captain Sissay. 4 mana green while creature that taps to tutor any legendary card. she helms my legendary themed deck thats basically a tribal deck but the tribe is the legendary card type.
Me, playing Vito, Thorn ... as my Commander: He's not top tier, it's fine. Having Sanguine Bond for 3 in the Command Zone is fine. Exquisite Blood costs 5. Plenty of time to respond. *Gets Bloodthirsty Conqueror* *Realizes implications" Turn 1: Swamp, Dark Ritual, Sol Ring, Entomb BC, Reanimate BC Turn 2: Swamp, Vito, Swing w/ Conqueror, go infinite, win if no turn 2 response Did I just accidentally cedh? Entomb rocks.
I'm running a Miku Diabolic Tutor in my Atraxa Rat deck mainly because I have other Miku cards in the deck already and I usually use it to pull something like Astral Cornucopia or Pack Rat cause he's my favorite. I feel like 4 mana to find cards that cost less than 4 mana is a good trade off for using a tutor.
Guided passage is the best tutor in the game. Its also the worst 😂 "Hey, imma spend 3 mana, can you give me a removal spell for that problem over there we both dislike, a dork, and whatever land you can find?"
Transmute will always be welcome at my tables since so much thought needs to go into a 1cc ability imo. It's a literal showcase of deck construction skill, and it's fair at any level imo because the cost is 3 mana and reveal the tutored card.
I hate videos like this! they feel like they reenforce the "unspoken rules of commander" when the goal really should be to try and match power levels in playgroups not build dumb extra rules into the game. Trinket Mage has a great video how salt is self fulfilling that says this way better than i can...
I should mention i generally like Deck Drivers content so this is not me saying i hate him or his vids. I also don't go to LGS to pubstomp i have a convo before games about the strength of the decks i have and what they try to do, how fast they try to win exe so that everyone has fun games and the decks are as balanced as possible. It is just a fact though that many edh players are playing "bad" / greedy decks (often they don't play enough removal for instance) and it shouldn't be on other players to make up for their weaknesses.
@@glitchs7604 Totally agree here. I usually don't run a lot of tutors personally, but that's more because I find it makes my decks feel to 'same-y', where the optimal play will always be tutoring a card that will end the game and then holding it until I can guarantee it resolves. I tend to enjoy the variance commander brings and tutors kind of cuts down on that (or global tutors anyway). The only deck I run tutors in at the moment is Merieke but I'm also working towards building that up to be closer to cEDH level or borderline cEDH eventually with things like thoracle/tainted pact combo etc etc. Otherwise most other decks that do run tutors run ones that are on theme with the deck (mystic and personal in niv-paruun spellslinger to guarantee continuing the storm chain if you're out of fuel in your hand full of lands for instance). Most of the 'hate' from tutors I feel more comes from the fact that they're usually run in decks where the other cards in the deck are also of a much higher power level than what the rest of the table might expect, making the tutor seem even MORE overpowered, and/or are just used in an 'oops all infinites' deck that just runs several 2 card infinite combos and appears to win out of nowhere a lot of the time, or players aren't running enough removal and/or don't have proper threat assessment to know what need to go.
Also, if people are going to talk threat assessment, pull your head from your deck long enough to realize that it takes a significant amount of play to build up any real threat assessment. Combos.
The tutors i play determine the group im playing against. When i play against my cousin and his friends no bars hold. But my main play group that likes it a little more casual i run restrictive and/or high mana tutors to keep the pace of the game
I love me Zur, the enchanter :3, especially as a toolbox deck. I don't really play 'win the game' cards and just love tutors to pull a fav/pet card in the deck, eg. triggered abilities became the build-around theme for my Aminatou, veil piercer after seeing mirror room//fractured realm from Duskmourn, so I mostly tutor w/ my moon-blessed cleric/enlightened tutor for that just to make all my other cards better :)
My favorite tutor is Jarad's Order, get the creature i want from my deck into my hand and my reanimation target or elemental incarnation straight into my graveyard
I play a Dan Lewis/The First Doctor deck, built around creating artifacts token and equipping them using Dan's ability. I run a few artifact tutors to find cards that reduce equipment costs, and the table is generally fine with this as I'm only looking for a piece of my puzzle.
Honesty removing demonic tutor from the only deck I played it in didn't change how it works at all. You love to see it Also Recruiter of the Guard is my favourite tutor.
Self mill with cheap recursion is more powerful than just tutoring a wincon Almost any combo piece can be cheated out cheaper and faster by reanimation than by just tutoring and casting the normal way
I have different play groups. One expects you to be playing the strongest cards possible, the other mostly modifies precons. I have different decks based on the occasion.
My favorite is demonic tutor with the art of liliana being etched with magic by a demon, the the one I use the most is whir of invention to reward developing my board
I’m agree with this video 100%. My playgroup chooses to not play any nonland tutors. But if we’re playing with someone new, we wouldn’t push that rule on them….. However if they use their tutors to consistently get their win con….then they probably won’t be invited back. Casual and cedh need to be brought up when asking the question “Do you want to play Commander”?
Personally i feel power level is more of what your deck does not what card you play. Like your example of finale of Devastation. Is only someone scary if a person is not spamming the board with tokens. If they only have 2-3 creatures, ouch but not horrible. Also i think its more of a fact how people built their decks. Since i seen most people built their deck to just infinite combo or really not do great interactions with the opponents. Its something i was hoping for trying to play it. Since i came from yugioh and it price majority of my friends from playing. Where i started because i did some precon games and those where fun since it was like yugioh with making your way through peoples boards. I guess all i saying is magic has a bit to much solitary, helmet, and people are a bit afraid of soft stun. When playing Yugioh we really only had the one type of solitary deck which is burn and win condition. The community look down at those players, because we see it as a dice roll format. Helmet decks are consider lacking game knowledge. Since you aren't willing to challenge yourself on harder pathway of decks. We understand it for a tournament, since around 8 hours of play make you more incline to make mistakes. Soft stun is interesting. The community actually love it, since we see it as how you choose to force through will decide the game. Like do you hold for a turn to try break through your opponent or do you try 1 to 2 lines to get your opponent to stop the wrong thing.
Again, and as a content creator, you shouldn't be so one-sided on this topic. (Yes, I heard the one sentence mentioning higher-powered pods.) Battlecruiser and cedh aren't the only levels at which Commander can be played. You also pretty much said Demonic, Vampiric, and similar tutors "suck," but everything else is fair game-like Worldly, Enlightened, and Mystical tutors. They all serve the same function; it just depends on the deck. If I want Expropriate, I can use Mystical Tutor. If I want Craterhoof Behemoth, I can use a variety of green tutors to achieve the same goal, if not a better result, with cards like Finale of Devastation that put it directly into play. "Oh no, he Demonic Tutored for Sensei's Divining Top" versus "Oh, he used Fabricate; no big deal, it's just an artifact." The problem with tutors in a casual pod is the deck's consistency and the level of redundancy built into it. Having two good tutors like Vampiric and Demonic is a far cry from having ten tutors that can search for multiple types of cards. Those cards will help you get to your win condition faster or solve your current problem in most cases. And like you said in the creature example, it's not always to win. Sometimes you need answers. You could draw that single Feed the Swarm in your mono-black list eventually, if you get to live that long, because an opponent has a Smothering Tithe making 6+ treasure a rotation. Or, you know, have that Demonic Tutor-effect kind of card to have a chance.
I've proxied like 90% of my ur dragon deck. I've not held back at all in regards to power. So tutors are just a natural include. Tiamat has to be my favorite. Obviously I can't play that deck on every table. I'm planning to build a treasure hoarding dragon deck. I will be playing some tutors in there because the wincon is hellkite tyrants upkeep trigger
Let’s say, like in your example, you are running 2 ways to win the game. Statistically, you will have to draw more than half your deck to hit one consistently. Even assuming that by turn 7, when you need a wincon, you have drawn the equivalent of two cards per turn up to that point, you will still have a wincon in hand less than 40% of the time. What does that mean in practice? If you aren’t drawing wincons, you’re drawing other stuff. More ramp, more draw, more synergy, more removal, even more lands. This will put you ahead of the rest of the table who built their deck responsibly, running 6-8 wincons to draw at least one per game. While Timmy may have had his Craterhoof dead in hand since turn 2, you get to go tutor for it turn 8 while you ramped or played a key creature early game instead. For every category of card in your deck that you are hoping to tutor for, this advantage exponentially increases. I have to run 14 low cmc ramp cards to hit one by turn 3? If you have 5 tutors, you can run 9 and our odds are identical. This allows for irresponsible deck building in any deck with tutors, as you get to cut down so many of the key support pieces in your deck in favor of just more “good stuff.” Are you running a specific two-card combo? Are you trying to optimize every tiny percentage of your deck? If so, run all the tutors you want and stay away from casual commander. If not, think about what your tutors are getting most of the time, and replace your tutors with more of that.
I personally like running lots of tutor engines, since I generally end up hellbent in a lot of my decks.... If I'm just playing for funsies with friends I'm not above using Demonic Tutor to find Insatiable Avarice and using that to put Vampiric Tutor on top of my library before drawing three cards...and then Vamp Tutor into Enlightened Tutor cuz why not?
I mean I only run the “op” tutor in my high powered decks. Aka demonic and vampiric. I don’t consider worldly, mystical or enlightened tutor THAT op. Demonic and vampiric are just on another level
I tutor for something fun to add abit of spice when everyone is able to do their thing und enjoying the game. but when someone is being naughty, I'll tutor my sudden wincon and end the game early, I dont mind to become an archenemy at all.
Most of the time i prefer to not run tutors, as it makes games feel more different usually, i do have a Sisay weatherlight captain deck. I like to use it as more of an emergency button though rather than tutoring out the win the game button. Like i dont tutor out jodah, i have to draw them, i can tutor out removal or utility though. Its just the way I like to play. I dont like when people tutor out instant wins. I dont think id fault someone who has put in a bunch of setup beforehand though. Like in the video the example of converting artifact tokens into an army is reasonable. You had to make a bunch of tokens before that was viable, and people will know what you tutored out pretty cool. Personally, im just more into the utility side of tutors. Makes the game more interesting to me at least.
I just personally find them boring more then broken. My thought process is a tutor for a win con is just a second more expensive copy of that win con. So why not just find another win con and shove it in the deck
Since ive created my highest power deck full of tutors, fast mana, and intent to murder players…. Ive kinda been anti tutor in casual. Tutors made my gameplan too consistent for casual, as tutors made my deck the ultimate toolbox. I recently decided, though, that i wanted to challenge myself to make a deck using tutors just to show myself it can be done. And i did, i made a perfectly casual deck with a bunch of tutors, all designed to get my silly little baubles and baubles support cards. And ive been having a blast tinkering with this list.
One thing that ensured my deck stayed casual with a couple tutors is due to my deck requiring multiple moving parts to generate pressure and card advantage. I dont have any single 1 card im going to win cards, atleast i dont have any that are tutorable. I can tutor for my advantage peices, my baubles, and some pressure, but no tutors can go get something like the approach of the second sun. This way, my deck acts like a toolbox, but i still have to work in order to get a winz
I think this video misses a key consideration: running "suboptimal" tutors - tutors that aren't the most efficient cards printed in the history of Magic. Dig Up offers early game land-drop consistency for {G}, or a later game tutor for {1}{B}{B}{G}. Mystical Teachings tutors for an instant or card with flash for {4}{B}, and has Flashback for {5}{B}. These less-efficient tutors require a bit of a hoop to jump through in their mana cost, and that mana commitment mitigates how much you're able to pop-off. Plus, they're dirt cheap. The question isn't "I'm in Black, so should I run Demonic Tutor?" It's a balance between budget, flexibility, how fast you expect a game to go, and how much your deck wants consistency. Also, if you care, running cards that aren't ubiquitous, just for the fun of it. I'm mostly excited to play Dig Up in my Insect deck because there's a centipede in the art. Also consider what set-up is required in order for your tutor targets to work. Personally, I'm happy tutoring for Living Death, because it means that I've already done the work of filling my graveyard (and ideally, controlling opponents' graveyards). It doesn't feel like cheating myself or the table out of a game. But if the card you're looking for just tends to be a haymaker 90% of the time, be a bit more mindful if a casual experience is what you're going for.
I have a dimir enchantment deck and was debating on adding demonic tutor since I own it and want a way to get some of my specific enchantments for the occasion. Don’t know any other way to search for enchantments in dimir.
Tutors don't need to be made ethical. They're really not as good as they seem to beginners. It costs a slot in your deck to add Mana cost to any card and usually still wait till next draw to get it.
I don't go overboard on tutors and I don't play fast combo. I do tend to jam Demonic and Vampiric in my black decks and sometimes some land tutors in various decks. I think one of the scariest things someone can play is an Imperial Seal or a Cruel Tutor, it's usually a sign that they jammed every available tutor in their deck and are about to go off. I think more tutors means you get to run fewer boardwipes, so it's got that going for it. A deck without tutors with more boardwipes can run through them all and kind of grump out the table.
People need to stop bitching and just play the game. Pack removal, counters, and learn to use stack and priority. This is not for competition's sake, but for yourself as a player, to grow, learn, and have fun with the beautiful intricacies of the game. Whining about cards, strong opponent decks and such does not help, as long as we all agree to have a mid or high power game then plan accordingly. Personally, as long as people are not playing thorcale combos or pact combos everything is fair game. Hell, if you can't afford the best cards get some stack pieces and slow the stronger decks down until you catch up with your less efficient value engines!
My words! I stopped whining about OP players stomping my precon pod. Instead I just built a monoblue deck with lots of carddraw and 20 counters. Now it is the noob-stompers whining all day long, crying about me having bad manners and them not having fun
I think in a casual sense tutors should be used as extra copies of specific cards. If you start using them as a toolbox enabler, that's when other players start groaning when you play them. Behind on board? Tutor a boardclear. Got a wide board? Tutor overrun. Need to remove someone elses wincon? Tutor for enchantment removal etc. I've got a simic deck where the basic idea is to play the biggest doppelgang I can manage. There is one similar card (aggressive biomancy) and two tutor effects that are effectively reserved for those (even though I could also use them to find ramp or a boardclear). The deck does not contain any way to search up specific creatures, even though they represent the toolbox aspect of the deck. I ensure that I can achieve the main goal while all the permanents i get to hit with doppelgang change massively each game. Sometimes there are landfall creatures, etbs, mana doublers or maybe an opponent has something worth copying. That way not even the spell I tutor for always feels the same.
Scheming Symmetry and Wishclaw Talisman both let you enjoy the modern conveniences of a low-price, black, no-reveal, to-hand tutor whilst also giving the most behind player something they can use to stop the person ahead :D win win!
Yikes, to players that get groans when they play cards they own, just find better playgroups. This is nonsense: ‘ethical tutors’ Stop being so fragile.
Eh I post both sides of why people don't like em and how you could/should use them. Not trying to justify either side. My play group uses them but some play groups don't
@@deckdriverMTG I feel like its something you already have and you dont really want others to use but just to accept some one will. But you are right just play more removal and get ready for the tutored card not the tutor it self.
I LOVE search for glory and all the transmute cards. I enjoy tutors with restrictions and the need to reveal them. They feel fair
Vampiric Tutor will always be my favourite because it was the first expensive card I got out of a booster when I was a kid
People actually have this attitude towards tutors? If someone wants to run a tutor against me then go ahead!
My LGS runs a commander league and tutors are banned 🤦♂️
@@Jesse_The_Enchanter I hope that includes tutors for lands, like rampant growth...
@ Nope. Just cards with the name tutor in them 🤦♂️ and they banned all fast mana rocks too. Doesn’t make sense to me but hey I don’t own the store.
@@Jesse_The_Enchanter Just cards with the word tutor in them??? Okay. I guess I'll stick with my summoner's pact lol
@ Yeah there are a lot of ways around the ban lol. I run Zur, The Enchanter mostly for league and search for dumb stuff then drop demonic consultation/thassas 😂
Tutor’s are great. People complain that “tutor’s are just a second copy of any card in your deck”. If a green deck can run 4 copies of Llanowar Elves, then a Demonic Tutor or Vampiric Tutor is fine as well. It’s also not a copy, it’s a copy with a tax. Extra mana needed to pay for it, double the chance for it to be countered, and not guaranteed to play it on the same turn.
My favorite tutor is a close pick between Trinket Mage or Step Through. Both of these work great as tool box tutors and promote deck building with cards that don't normally make the 99
Step through is my absolute favorite tutor of all time both on a mechanical level plus on the level that wizard is my favorite creature type so having one of the mechanically best tutors being available for it exclusively is fantastic!
I love micromancer!
Run. Interaction.
Tutors are good for casual.
More decks that are consistent is never a bad thing
Transmute is probably one of my top 3 all time favorite mechanics that I would like to see make a comeback with iterations for multiple colors. Tolaria West and Muddle The Mixture kinda just go into all my blue decks despite the drawbacks of the cards themselves.
A tutor is essentially grabbing a giant target on your back. You gotta be prepared
my favorite tutor is a commander called Captain Sissay. 4 mana green while creature that taps to tutor any legendary card. she helms my legendary themed deck thats basically a tribal deck but the tribe is the legendary card type.
Had a nasty Sisay deck.
People always hate something. Luckily mtg has so many options that you can specifically hate blue.
Me, playing Vito, Thorn ... as my Commander: He's not top tier, it's fine. Having Sanguine Bond for 3 in the Command Zone is fine. Exquisite Blood costs 5. Plenty of time to respond.
*Gets Bloodthirsty Conqueror*
*Realizes implications"
Turn 1: Swamp, Dark Ritual, Sol Ring, Entomb BC, Reanimate BC
Turn 2: Swamp, Vito, Swing w/ Conqueror, go infinite, win if no turn 2 response
Did I just accidentally cedh?
Entomb rocks.
Tutors are the Nth copy of something and they are awesome. The best tutor has to be "Long Term Plans".
I REALLY LOVE GAMBLEING
On another note enlightened tutor into rhystic/solring/smothering tithe just gives me soo much value
I'm running a Miku Diabolic Tutor in my Atraxa Rat deck mainly because I have other Miku cards in the deck already and I usually use it to pull something like Astral Cornucopia or Pack Rat cause he's my favorite. I feel like 4 mana to find cards that cost less than 4 mana is a good trade off for using a tutor.
Guided passage is the best tutor in the game.
Its also the worst 😂
"Hey, imma spend 3 mana, can you give me a removal spell for that problem over there we both dislike, a dork, and whatever land you can find?"
Transmute will always be welcome at my tables since so much thought needs to go into a 1cc ability imo. It's a literal showcase of deck construction skill, and it's fair at any level imo because the cost is 3 mana and reveal the tutored card.
I hate videos like this! they feel like they reenforce the "unspoken rules of commander" when the goal really should be to try and match power levels in playgroups not build dumb extra rules into the game. Trinket Mage has a great video how salt is self fulfilling that says this way better than i can...
I should mention i generally like Deck Drivers content so this is not me saying i hate him or his vids. I also don't go to LGS to pubstomp i have a convo before games about the strength of the decks i have and what they try to do, how fast they try to win exe so that everyone has fun games and the decks are as balanced as possible. It is just a fact though that many edh players are playing "bad" / greedy decks (often they don't play enough removal for instance) and it shouldn't be on other players to make up for their weaknesses.
@@glitchs7604 Totally agree here. I usually don't run a lot of tutors personally, but that's more because I find it makes my decks feel to 'same-y', where the optimal play will always be tutoring a card that will end the game and then holding it until I can guarantee it resolves. I tend to enjoy the variance commander brings and tutors kind of cuts down on that (or global tutors anyway). The only deck I run tutors in at the moment is Merieke but I'm also working towards building that up to be closer to cEDH level or borderline cEDH eventually with things like thoracle/tainted pact combo etc etc. Otherwise most other decks that do run tutors run ones that are on theme with the deck (mystic and personal in niv-paruun spellslinger to guarantee continuing the storm chain if you're out of fuel in your hand full of lands for instance).
Most of the 'hate' from tutors I feel more comes from the fact that they're usually run in decks where the other cards in the deck are also of a much higher power level than what the rest of the table might expect, making the tutor seem even MORE overpowered, and/or are just used in an 'oops all infinites' deck that just runs several 2 card infinite combos and appears to win out of nowhere a lot of the time, or players aren't running enough removal and/or don't have proper threat assessment to know what need to go.
@@glitchs7604faster wins equal more games, blah drawn out games.
I literally have started watching Deck Driver because I was looking for content about building good balanced decks at different competitive levels.
Also, if people are going to talk threat assessment, pull your head from your deck long enough to realize that it takes a significant amount of play to build up any real threat assessment. Combos.
The tutors i play determine the group im playing against. When i play against my cousin and his friends no bars hold. But my main play group that likes it a little more casual i run restrictive and/or high mana tutors to keep the pace of the game
I love me Zur, the enchanter :3, especially as a toolbox deck. I don't really play 'win the game' cards and just love tutors to pull a fav/pet card in the deck, eg. triggered abilities became the build-around theme for my Aminatou, veil piercer after seeing mirror room//fractured realm from Duskmourn, so I mostly tutor w/ my moon-blessed cleric/enlightened tutor for that just to make all my other cards better :)
My favorite tutor is Jarad's Order, get the creature i want from my deck into my hand and my reanimation target or elemental incarnation straight into my graveyard
I play a Dan Lewis/The First Doctor deck, built around creating artifacts token and equipping them using Dan's ability. I run a few artifact tutors to find cards that reduce equipment costs, and the table is generally fine with this as I'm only looking for a piece of my puzzle.
Honesty removing demonic tutor from the only deck I played it in didn't change how it works at all. You love to see it
Also Recruiter of the Guard is my favourite tutor.
I feel like this is a VERY personal experience, and doesn't cover the majority of casual EDH players.
Self mill with cheap recursion is more powerful than just tutoring a wincon
Almost any combo piece can be cheated out cheaper and faster by reanimation than by just tutoring and casting the normal way
I have different play groups. One expects you to be playing the strongest cards possible, the other mostly modifies precons. I have different decks based on the occasion.
My favorite is demonic tutor with the art of liliana being etched with magic by a demon, the the one I use the most is whir of invention to reward developing my board
I’m agree with this video 100%. My playgroup chooses to not play any nonland tutors. But if we’re playing with someone new, we wouldn’t push that rule on them…..
However if they use their tutors to consistently get their win con….then they probably won’t be invited back.
Casual and cedh need to be brought up when asking the question “Do you want to play Commander”?
Personally i feel power level is more of what your deck does not what card you play. Like your example of finale of Devastation. Is only someone scary if a person is not spamming the board with tokens. If they only have 2-3 creatures, ouch but not horrible. Also i think its more of a fact how people built their decks. Since i seen most people built their deck to just infinite combo or really not do great interactions with the opponents. Its something i was hoping for trying to play it.
Since i came from yugioh and it price majority of my friends from playing. Where i started because i did some precon games and those where fun since it was like yugioh with making your way through peoples boards.
I guess all i saying is magic has a bit to much solitary, helmet, and people are a bit afraid of soft stun.
When playing Yugioh we really only had the one type of solitary deck which is burn and win condition. The community look down at those players, because we see it as a dice roll format.
Helmet decks are consider lacking game knowledge. Since you aren't willing to challenge yourself on harder pathway of decks. We understand it for a tournament, since around 8 hours of play make you more incline to make mistakes.
Soft stun is interesting. The community actually love it, since we see it as how you choose to force through will decide the game. Like do you hold for a turn to try break through your opponent or do you try 1 to 2 lines to get your opponent to stop the wrong thing.
Again, and as a content creator, you shouldn't be so one-sided on this topic. (Yes, I heard the one sentence mentioning higher-powered pods.) Battlecruiser and cedh aren't the only levels at which Commander can be played.
You also pretty much said Demonic, Vampiric, and similar tutors "suck," but everything else is fair game-like Worldly, Enlightened, and Mystical tutors. They all serve the same function; it just depends on the deck. If I want Expropriate, I can use Mystical Tutor. If I want Craterhoof Behemoth, I can use a variety of green tutors to achieve the same goal, if not a better result, with cards like Finale of Devastation that put it directly into play.
"Oh no, he Demonic Tutored for Sensei's Divining Top" versus "Oh, he used Fabricate; no big deal, it's just an artifact." The problem with tutors in a casual pod is the deck's consistency and the level of redundancy built into it. Having two good tutors like Vampiric and Demonic is a far cry from having ten tutors that can search for multiple types of cards. Those cards will help you get to your win condition faster or solve your current problem in most cases.
And like you said in the creature example, it's not always to win. Sometimes you need answers. You could draw that single Feed the Swarm in your mono-black list eventually, if you get to live that long, because an opponent has a Smothering Tithe making 6+ treasure a rotation. Or, you know, have that Demonic Tutor-effect kind of card to have a chance.
I've proxied like 90% of my ur dragon deck. I've not held back at all in regards to power. So tutors are just a natural include.
Tiamat has to be my favorite.
Obviously I can't play that deck on every table.
I'm planning to build a treasure hoarding dragon deck. I will be playing some tutors in there because the wincon is hellkite tyrants upkeep trigger
I don't care what cards you include, and welcome all the stuff you can Come up with. Its the proxy decks I don't like.
@@jessewallace3805 I do not like the idea that budget should limit your cardpool. That's one of the reasons I enjoy edh so much
Let’s say, like in your example, you are running 2 ways to win the game. Statistically, you will have to draw more than half your deck to hit one consistently. Even assuming that by turn 7, when you need a wincon, you have drawn the equivalent of two cards per turn up to that point, you will still have a wincon in hand less than 40% of the time.
What does that mean in practice? If you aren’t drawing wincons, you’re drawing other stuff. More ramp, more draw, more synergy, more removal, even more lands. This will put you ahead of the rest of the table who built their deck responsibly, running 6-8 wincons to draw at least one per game. While Timmy may have had his Craterhoof dead in hand since turn 2, you get to go tutor for it turn 8 while you ramped or played a key creature early game instead.
For every category of card in your deck that you are hoping to tutor for, this advantage exponentially increases. I have to run 14 low cmc ramp cards to hit one by turn 3? If you have 5 tutors, you can run 9 and our odds are identical. This allows for irresponsible deck building in any deck with tutors, as you get to cut down so many of the key support pieces in your deck in favor of just more “good stuff.”
Are you running a specific two-card combo? Are you trying to optimize every tiny percentage of your deck? If so, run all the tutors you want and stay away from casual commander. If not, think about what your tutors are getting most of the time, and replace your tutors with more of that.
I personally like running lots of tutor engines, since I generally end up hellbent in a lot of my decks.... If I'm just playing for funsies with friends I'm not above using Demonic Tutor to find Insatiable Avarice and using that to put Vampiric Tutor on top of my library before drawing three cards...and then Vamp Tutor into Enlightened Tutor cuz why not?
Wishclaw talisman. It's monetarily cheap and i love artifact decks so i can loop it
Worldly Tutor is my boi! Love me some creatures.
I mean I only run the “op” tutor in my high powered decks. Aka demonic and vampiric. I don’t consider worldly, mystical or enlightened tutor THAT op. Demonic and vampiric are just on another level
I tutor for something fun to add abit of spice when everyone is able to do their thing und enjoying the game. but when someone is being naughty, I'll tutor my sudden wincon and end the game early, I dont mind to become an archenemy at all.
My favorite Tutor is Elizabeth I.
I have 6 proxy tutors in my homebrew deck and ive lost every game
Most of the time i prefer to not run tutors, as it makes games feel more different usually, i do have a Sisay weatherlight captain deck. I like to use it as more of an emergency button though rather than tutoring out the win the game button. Like i dont tutor out jodah, i have to draw them, i can tutor out removal or utility though. Its just the way I like to play. I dont like when people tutor out instant wins. I dont think id fault someone who has put in a bunch of setup beforehand though. Like in the video the example of converting artifact tokens into an army is reasonable. You had to make a bunch of tokens before that was viable, and people will know what you tutored out pretty cool. Personally, im just more into the utility side of tutors. Makes the game more interesting to me at least.
I just personally find them boring more then broken. My thought process is a tutor for a win con is just a second more expensive copy of that win con. So why not just find another win con and shove it in the deck
Since ive created my highest power deck full of tutors, fast mana, and intent to murder players…. Ive kinda been anti tutor in casual. Tutors made my gameplan too consistent for casual, as tutors made my deck the ultimate toolbox. I recently decided, though, that i wanted to challenge myself to make a deck using tutors just to show myself it can be done. And i did, i made a perfectly casual deck with a bunch of tutors, all designed to get my silly little baubles and baubles support cards. And ive been having a blast tinkering with this list.
One thing that ensured my deck stayed casual with a couple tutors is due to my deck requiring multiple moving parts to generate pressure and card advantage. I dont have any single 1 card im going to win cards, atleast i dont have any that are tutorable. I can tutor for my advantage peices, my baubles, and some pressure, but no tutors can go get something like the approach of the second sun. This way, my deck acts like a toolbox, but i still have to work in order to get a winz
Doing my part 🫡
I think this video misses a key consideration: running "suboptimal" tutors - tutors that aren't the most efficient cards printed in the history of Magic.
Dig Up offers early game land-drop consistency for {G}, or a later game tutor for {1}{B}{B}{G}. Mystical Teachings tutors for an instant or card with flash for {4}{B}, and has Flashback for {5}{B}.
These less-efficient tutors require a bit of a hoop to jump through in their mana cost, and that mana commitment mitigates how much you're able to pop-off. Plus, they're dirt cheap. The question isn't "I'm in Black, so should I run Demonic Tutor?" It's a balance between budget, flexibility, how fast you expect a game to go, and how much your deck wants consistency. Also, if you care, running cards that aren't ubiquitous, just for the fun of it. I'm mostly excited to play Dig Up in my Insect deck because there's a centipede in the art.
Also consider what set-up is required in order for your tutor targets to work. Personally, I'm happy tutoring for Living Death, because it means that I've already done the work of filling my graveyard (and ideally, controlling opponents' graveyards). It doesn't feel like cheating myself or the table out of a game. But if the card you're looking for just tends to be a haymaker 90% of the time, be a bit more mindful if a casual experience is what you're going for.
I have a dimir enchantment deck and was debating on adding demonic tutor since I own it and want a way to get some of my specific enchantments for the occasion. Don’t know any other way to search for enchantments in dimir.
Tutors don't need to be made ethical. They're really not as good as they seem to beginners. It costs a slot in your deck to add Mana cost to any card and usually still wait till next draw to get it.
I don't go overboard on tutors and I don't play fast combo. I do tend to jam Demonic and Vampiric in my black decks and sometimes some land tutors in various decks. I think one of the scariest things someone can play is an Imperial Seal or a Cruel Tutor, it's usually a sign that they jammed every available tutor in their deck and are about to go off.
I think more tutors means you get to run fewer boardwipes, so it's got that going for it. A deck without tutors with more boardwipes can run through them all and kind of grump out the table.
People need to stop bitching and just play the game. Pack removal, counters, and learn to use stack and priority. This is not for competition's sake, but for yourself as a player, to grow, learn, and have fun with the beautiful intricacies of the game. Whining about cards, strong opponent decks and such does not help, as long as we all agree to have a mid or high power game then plan accordingly. Personally, as long as people are not playing thorcale combos or pact combos everything is fair game. Hell, if you can't afford the best cards get some stack pieces and slow the stronger decks down until you catch up with your less efficient value engines!
My words! I stopped whining about OP players stomping my precon pod. Instead I just built a monoblue deck with lots of carddraw and 20 counters. Now it is the noob-stompers whining all day long, crying about me having bad manners and them not having fun
I think in a casual sense tutors should be used as extra copies of specific cards. If you start using them as a toolbox enabler, that's when other players start groaning when you play them. Behind on board? Tutor a boardclear. Got a wide board? Tutor overrun. Need to remove someone elses wincon? Tutor for enchantment removal etc.
I've got a simic deck where the basic idea is to play the biggest doppelgang I can manage. There is one similar card (aggressive biomancy) and two tutor effects that are effectively reserved for those (even though I could also use them to find ramp or a boardclear).
The deck does not contain any way to search up specific creatures, even though they represent the toolbox aspect of the deck. I ensure that I can achieve the main goal while all the permanents i get to hit with doppelgang change massively each game. Sometimes there are landfall creatures, etbs, mana doublers or maybe an opponent has something worth copying. That way not even the spell I tutor for always feels the same.
Scheming Symmetry and Wishclaw Talisman both let you enjoy the modern conveniences of a low-price, black, no-reveal, to-hand tutor whilst also giving the most behind player something they can use to stop the person ahead :D win win!
Yikes, to players that get groans when they play cards they own, just find better playgroups. This is nonsense: ‘ethical tutors’
Stop being so fragile.
?
I agree. Step your game up, or drop the whining players.
New vid!
New vid!!
Commander should ban tutors
thats a lot of circle jerking to justify tutors kek.
Eh I post both sides of why people don't like em and how you could/should use them. Not trying to justify either side. My play group uses them but some play groups don't
@@deckdriverMTG I feel like its something you already have and you dont really want others to use but just to accept some one will. But you are right just play more removal and get ready for the tutored card not the tutor it self.
command zone is the root of all evil they influence the majority of casual players opinions
Yeah I personally think tutors are pretty great
What are some examples?
1-2 mana tutors are for scrubs