Thank you so much for this explanation, this is very important for a plex media server implementation on a NAS and has helped me make a direction I was looking for.
On a DS1621xs+ with SSD cache it does seem sequential access is helped as well. Nothing miraculous, but between that and the random r/w boost our VMs fly
Excellent idea to educate about SSD cache. I would like to add more, such as; I've noticed the "wear-and-tear" on a SSD (M.2 NVMe's to be exact) used for caching severely impacts the life-expectancy. (according to the health-check of the NAS itself) Where one normally can use a SSD for many years, using them for caching brings this down to only a few years, I have noticed in our environment. M.2 SSD's used for caching can get hot, and it sometimes requires you to put a heatsink on the controller-chip(!), so you will need to find out on your M.2 SSD where the controller-chip is located. And of course if you calculate the price per MB, SSD's are still quite expensive...
@@stevenp3176 Since I do use slow spinning HDs in the NAS and I do plan to run Applications directly from the Storage It is currently more like a peace of mind thing. I have yet to test out the impact on write speed especially or the difference when running games of the network share as compared to running them locally. I can only guess that running the same program every day would benefit access times greatly.
@@elfwyn8707 You are running software directly from the NAS? Not like software you run ON the NAS, but from the NAS like on the PC? Never heard of someone doing that, isn't that horribly slow? I mean you'd only have around 110MB/s unless you have more than 1Gbit/s ethernet. Just curious!
@@AdrianSchwizgebel It actually works pretty good speed wise, even though I dont even saturate the 10Gbe connection fully. My main problem is that not all windows programs cope well with network drives and tend to hickup when the drive is not available all the time. This has given me headaches with GOG Galaxy for example.
Love the hardware wall of fame in your background. Since you are Mr. NAS, I would not be surprised that manufacturers are paying attention that their brand is represented behind you on these general information videos.
With my recently bought TVS673 I added an extension card and PCIe NVME Cache because I went for slower Harddrives. I thought that write Operations would offload incoming data onto the NVME Cache, but in reality I am still capped at the write speed of those slower Harddisk and don't get even close 10Gbe throughput even with the largest files and of course Jumbo Frames enabled.
Great point about SSC Cache. Which DAS/NAS solution would you suggest then for video editing, that is, editing directly off of the DAS/NAS in a Raid 5 configuration with Thunderbolt connectivity. The OWC Thunderbay 8 or the QNAP 672XT 6 Bay? I will be editing a feature film, so I'll be accessing large amount of data frequently.
I use my NAS strictly for one part of my 3-2-1 data backup, so I didn't use SSD caching. I also found that the WD Black SN770 1TB SSDs get really hot in my Asustor AS6704T when the NVMe is heavily used. Heatsinks are probably required. I did make the NVMe Volume 1 though, which puts ADM onto the NVMe for fast performance.
This is why my Plex Server just stores files on the NAS. I have a 4 drive NAS serving files (mostly plex). My Plex Server is a 4 core w/2080ti pn an SSD with 32GB RAM. Works quite well under linux.
Anyway know if installing 2 x M.2 drives into my new DS920+ will improve the latency of running footage from Survellience? Great upload btw - really enjoying these videos. Subbed!
Not really - It will not help with sustained workloads like recording surveillance, and I would avoid a write cache as it will wear the SSD down faster than the HDD, but a read cache may help playback access
Brilliant as usual, but doesn’t a NAS used for video editing benefit from nvme cache since while file sizes can be large they aren’t necessarily sequential especially when scrubbing down a timeline?
What size do you want you Ssd? Can you use other brands or it has go be Synology. Just mounting my system I have a 920+ and planning on putting Exos 16gb.
Would like to have heard about one SSD to write cache and one SSD to read cache.. instead of using them combined as read/write and if there were any benefits to doing so.. since I would think the read cache would be larger and get hit more than write cache… so having a larger read cache and a smaller write cache (both like 1tb ssd)
Very Informative video, as usual! I'm a creative professional working mainly with after effects at very high resolutions (up to 24k), and I just bought a qnap TVS-h1688X, 32gb, that is being set-up with six ironwolf pro 16tb, a single m2 4TB SDD to be used as cache, in a quts-hero z1Z1 OS (around 80TB usable space). After seeing your video I'm getting really confused. My primary reason to invest on this unit was to try to get a fast unified network space for my three workstations. The network is running in a 10gb. All my primary files are from 40MB, 80MB up to the 800MB single file stills images sequences that will create a video sequence. Question if you are kind to answer: To maximize the total speed of the 6 ironwolf in this unit, should I add one more 4TB SSD (should I set it up as read only or read/write back?) or should I increase the total amount of memory installed? Many thx for this and other videos, it has been a climbing learning experience for me.
Would something like this be able to be used for running a game server, or is it not the same thing at all? I've very new to NAS and looking to build a home server that I can use for backup, streaming my own library, as well as possible running a server for a game here or there for my and my friends.
Hello. If you install 2 1tb nvme as read write how much memory it will consume? 416x2048 or 416x1024? I'll install in a lockerstor 4 with 4gb of ram. Thank you
I bought my 2 x 1tb nvme drives about a months ago and though it just worked for the whole NAS system, But you have to map 1 x nvme drive to a disk and same go's for the other nvme drive. I have them setup with read only atm. And they only ever fill up max I've seen 20gb =(
What about SSD Cache, when you are reading/writing small sequential incremented frames? (output_0000.png, output_0001.png, ...output_2599.png...) and accessing them with several computers like a VFX renderfarm... ?
I don’t know if it is just the system showing a number to complement me or not. My 920+ with 2 Synology 400GB NVMe as R/W cache shows over 90% hit rate with 367GB/372GB capacity used. I have another 918+ used in workplace with 2x 256GB WD Black NVMe as R/W cache, with ~90% hit rate with 180GB/232GB used. But the 918+ cache willl degrade every 1 or 2 months and require a reboot to restore.
I know cache deals with storage data. But can´t the OS of the NAS be mounted on the SSD? If this is possible, would that mean, that I loose the "cache" option, as the SSD is just another storage where the OS happens to be. Or can the 2 live parallel with each other, meaning: SSD is Cache als well as a speedy platform where the OS is located. Thanx for any ideas and help. .
Hey man, so I've got the TS-453BT3, and when I go to create a New Volume the 1TB NVME SSD do not show up as being available for setup. I searched around and thought that because they were 1TB NVME that they would not be compatible with the NAS (after doing research and compatibility checks on the QNAP site), I then went purchased slower 1TB m.2 SSD, and they still do not show up as being available in the New Volume drop down menu. Do I need to install drivers or am I doing something else wrong? Would appreciate any and all tips guy. Thanks
Since the topic is hot again, is it true that synology requires raid1 if you choose read/write caching? Also, is it possible to create a raid1 and allocate a partition as cache and another as volume?
I can't find anywhere, if the Synology DS1621+ has two PCIE4 or 3 slots. I wanna buy an M.2, but I don't know if I should buy a faste PCIE4 or not. -pls help! TY
Hey, I hate to ask this here, but I’ve been trying to get in touch with Qnap support for weeks with no luck: I bought a dual nvme QM2 card with 10gbe base T port for my TX-831x. I currently have it installed without SSDs for the extra port. The write speeds are good, but the read speeds are under 10MB/sec 😳 Does this card need SSDs installed to reach full 10Gbe read speeds or is it broken??
Well I’m planning on installing read write cache on my ds1621xs+…. I do have the Plex use case so generally it sounds like I won’t benefit.. however I wonder about the way that Usenet downloaders deal with chunks of files (rar files) then unpack - would an SSD cache help there? I'm thinking that the Usenet service does all that work on SSD cache then moves it as a big file to it's destination folder in media. I have shr using btrfs so I not sure if that changes it.
Thanks.... Again very informative. Can you talk one time about NIC's? some Nas have two 1 Gbe some have 1gbe and 2.5. I read about trunking?? Can I connect the 2.5gbe directly to my pc it has also 2.5gbe connection. Can I let the rest of the network go over 1gbe? Thanks.
Trunking is where you set up multiple links to the same device, either as separate redundant links incase of a hardware failure or via "link aggregation" to create a 2gbe connection by binding the 2 1gbe lines as 1 logical NIC The 2nd question - Yes that can be done, you are then making it functionally a DAS for your main computer so it will need a 2nd connection to the network, and the 1gbe connection on the NAS to feed the network as normal It might take some minor admin changes but it would easily work
How about speeding up access from hibernation? Assuming I will have the nas in hibernation by default, only need it a small handful of times a day to say have my phone backup the odd photo I took, or for it to take a daily backup from a family computer, or on the occasion I want to backup the day's work files... so not primary storage use but still nice for it to be fairly snappy when needed. So my assumption has been that if using a cache, say your phone connects and sends over a photo you took with Synology's photo app, would it be more quick and seamless as the cache takes the file before the disks have spent their 10+ seconds spinning up? Or would it make no difference and you still need to wait for disks to spin up?
can i have 2 ssd cards that are different memory sizes? i have a samsung 1 tb nvme card set up on my synology nas in a read cache only, if i get another card to set up a read/write cache- does it have to be 1 tb or can i get a 500gb(i'm cheap)? he recommends setting this up in a raid 1, which i would probably follow- please chime in!
Will the SSD cache improve my PiHole DNS performance? That's gotta be my most used service by far. And my Terraria docker server. There's probably not a lot of headroom for improvement on my little home NAS.
With dual 400 GB SSDs in RAID 1 they are mirrored with a total capacity of 400 GB of read/write. Obviously with 1, 400 GB SSD there is no mirroring still with a capacity of 400 GB. Therefore is the difference between 1 and 2 SSDs really just the data integrity and mirroring and not an increase in CACHE capacity?
What if you have window on SSD nvme gen 4 ~5000mbps r/w and make a new nvme gen 4 ssd @7400mb r/w as a cache drive will it be beneficial in regards of performance?
Newbie here with 3 questions. My scenario: I'm on QuTS hero (ZFS) with TS-873A (64GB ram, two M.2, 8 HDDs), and my priority is using the NAS like a "deluxe" DAS (connected directly to the PC via LAN cable, no other connections from the internet) just to archive my large raw videos (weird .MLV format) in the most "safety" way (hence ZFS, ECC ram, etc.) My priority is not grading directly the NAS' files. Instead, my primary use will be probably limited to save my "originals" in the NAS, and copy a selection of them to the PC drives once I'll need them for a grading project. Now the questions: 1. Having the correct preservation of my files as a priority, do You think I should disable the default "compression" option of the shared folders in ZFS? 2. If I copy a file from PC to a "compressed" ZFS folder, how can I verify the integrity of the archived copy via md5 or sha? (Since the compression, a software like TeraCopy could return errors...) 3. I can image that "de/compression" on-the-fly can benefit not only from ram but also from a good cache. Anyway, QuTS hero recommendation is to dedicate a first fast volume to the OS. So, in this scenario, is it preferable to use the two M.2 as first-volume for the OS installation, or as a read/write cache for the HDDs archive? (Thanks in advance.)
Essentially yes - Consider it a "tiered" system You want to have a volume of cache big enough for your random IOPS as mentioned in the video the reason you likely don't feel the need for an SSD cache when using a Plex server is because the RAM caching is enough for that task RAM is the fastest caching you have but capacity is limited - 8gb installed for you, absolute best many can get is "unofficial" 64gb Next Tier down is an SSD cache - Slower than a RAM cache but still orders of magnitude faster than spinning rust but you can get SSD's cheaply at 256gb or 512gb Lowest tier is spinning rust where you will feel the hit as a HDD has in inbuilt cache of about 64mb as a final buffer
Thank gou for this video .... I added 2 512 gb ssd cache to my synology for my plex use..and i have to say there is a significant diffrents in the way plex loads info ,dont even notice it .super smooth Synology ds918+ 16gb memory 4×10tb iron wolf 2 × m sata 512gb
Were there benefits for NVR? I don't remember you talking about them in the video but I remember you mention it in another video but there were some benefits. Thanks
Next to non for write as the data feel is constant It could make access for playback, especially scrubbing a playback back and forth looking for a specific event on camera much smoother
Can you please clarify one point? If I want to add SSD write caching to an existing RAID5 volume on a NAS with a 2.5gbe ethernet connection, the purpose of which is to accelerate writes past the 110MB/sec I see on a gigabit NAS, AND I need to see that performance gain on the writing of large files (reading is not as important), will SSD caching be beneficial? Will the SSD cache compensate for the slowdown introduced by RAID5 parity calculations? Would I be able to see at least 200 MB/sec?
I think the differences that you will see externally via the use of caching is negligible. The initialisation of the caching (AKA the 'burn in') as the system identifies which data needs to be cached on the SSD takes a little time. Additionally, the main benefits of caching or internally (i.e the file handing inside the system and the performance/responsive of the system too). Over time you WOULD see external performance benefits, but only on smaller file access, not really larger file/data (eg ISOs/images).
I work in 3d and render out image sequences. Sounds like ssd cache doesn’t make things run coaster for me because even if my individual images are small the are sequential and won’t be prioritized into cache. Is this correct?
Sounds correct. 3d/mograph guy here as well, with new Synology DS1621. From all I've read a cache won't much help users like us. At least not until they make the software more flexible/intelligent in how we can use it. The 10Gig network option, on the other hand, makes massive difference.
Please explain what happens in the event of hardware failure when using SSD Cache (Both for Read-Only and Read-Write options). I think the Read-Write can be VERY DANGEROUS in the event of hardware failure.
I've got a question. Will having an SSD cache help me reduce the drive noise? I noticed you said that there will be less performance benefits for Plex, but constant downloading and reading creates quite a bit of drive noise in my DS1521+ 😅
same thing, if you constantly access the same files over and over, then yes. but if you are constantly accessing random files each time, then they wont be recently cached so no, the files will be pulled from the mechanical drives and thus noise
@@nefariou5 I actually solved a lot of the noise issues by creating a volume on the SSD and moving all my apps, docker containers and temp download folders there :P
I’m new to this but from what I’m reading it seems to me you don’t really need that much if used for Cache. Seeing people buying 4TB for cache-is that really beneficial or a costly hindrance?
Should I use two identical SSDs, for SSD caching, or not? For example, can I use one Samsung SSD 960 EVO 250GB with one Samsung SSD 970 EVO PRO 250GB, both NVMe? Thank you very much!
You can only use those NVMe grade SSDs for storage pools in a QNAP or Asustor. Synology will only allow caching. Also, you technically CAN mix the SSD tyes in caching, but it is not advised, as they will not be accessed similarly and with the same latency (caching is set up in areas of RAID, such as RAID 0 or RAID 1) so it might drop in performance enough to largely invalidate their use. Hope this helps.
I have Synology DS420+ with 4x8TB drives on RAID5. This Diskstation comes with 2xSSD cache slots. We have about 700GB data. How much cache should I buy? Would 2x400GB modules do?
Just checked the specs on my new TS-653D and found the PCIe slot is rated at Gen 2 X 2. I would've wasted my money buying the expansion card. It can't give 10gb or Gen 3 nvme performace.
So, if I am correctly interpreting this, if I am primarily using my 920+ NAS for RAW Photo files editing/storage and video editing/storage, then the SSD Cache is of no benefit to me? I also plan to use it to back up my PCs too. Just got one and have it setup with extra RAM but no SSD Cache yet. It's formatted and running DSM but I haven't started using it yet. If I won't benefit, I'd rather not spend the money!! Thanks for saving me some money!
Hmm, that's not how I understand it, but I too am a novice. I just now (moments ago) purchased 2 Samsung 2TB NVMe drives on B & H. 189.99 each, so "saved" about 220 dollars. Was planning to set them as read-only, mainly for video editing, and other random stuff, like a bit of music production and digital art. Now I'm wondering if I should try a read-write configuation, but... reading is what really slows things down from my limited understanding, so may stick with read-only. (And get access to most of that sweet, sweet juicy 4TB of cache!) I'm under the strong impression that NVMe cache will help alot with video editing (and probably photo editing too, in your case). BUT, you would probably also need 10gbe, so if you don't have that, then... yeah probably won't see the benefits of NVMe. (I'm using an iMac, so I got a Thunderbolt to 10gbe adapter device, which then connects via eithernet cable to the 10gbe card I installed in my Synology DS1621+... anyway, hope something I wrote helped point you in the right direction, ha.)
@@mrhobs thank you. I agree with, but I plan on editing on my internal SSDs, not on the NAS, so since he stated it does not speed up copying large files over, (video files and 50mb+ raw photo files) I'd rather spend that SSD money on larger HDDs for storage. Hopefully I understood him correctly. 😊
@@keithspurlock4732 Yeah I think you made the right call in your use case. If you're just copying the file completely over to SSD before working on it, then you are right, the NVMe won't help with the copying speed... not even sure if you'd need the extra RAM for that, but I guess it'll help your interface run snappier? For me, I'd have to be continually accessing the NAS as I scrub through video timelines in the editor, as there is no way to fit the whole project (maybe some smaller ones) on my 1TB internal iMac. I guess I could have incorporated some SSDs into the NAS, but since NVMe are even faster, I'll be essentially using those instead... as they automatically get populated with my most used files. Yeah... lots of options, my brain doesn't want to think about it anymore, I'm just gonna hope my configuration works. (Probably will get it set up today or tomorrow). Oh and I ended up getting some cheap unsupported ECC RAM for the NAS, so I'll have the full 32gb... wish me luck! 😅
I am totally new to Nas. I want to buy one to be able to stream and store my video's also want to use it as a flac server. So i can stream my music to my amplifier. But i have zero knowledge about a Nas. I want to be futureproof. And also storage proof for the future. I have watched a lot of your video's. But a lot is abacadabra after a few minutes. Do not know what VM is. If i understand correctly a Nas also can be used for usenet. So with my phone i could anywhere start a download ? I am the kind of person who first needs to buy one and then due to learning become aware that he shoukd have bought a DSxxxx xx. I still have a 1080p tv. But in the future i will buy one. And my monitor is a widescreen. I was thinking about a DS1621+ But from watching your video it is a model thar i should not buy ? I wanted that one because of the possibility of 10Gb nic in the future. I have a Ten Gb network. I wanted to start with two 12 Tb Nas hd's. So i can start with getting to know how a nas works and have enough storage to begin. And still be safe if one hd will fail. I have a lot of external hd's laying around. But i want everything stored at one place. Am i correct from one of your video's that the DS1621+ is not a good Nas to use it at home for streaming and encoding ? The xs version is 700.00 Euro more expensive. And i already find the DS1621+ a lot of money. What i find strange. Why would Synology buikd a 1621+ Nas that has a very budget processor that almost can not handle video playing and encoding ? Did they do this so that there is a big difference between the 1621+ and the 1621xs ? I find 1800.00 Euro for a Nas a lot of money. Could you confirm that the DS1621+ is not a good Nas for my use ? To store large amounts of data ? In the end somewhere around 80 Tb of movies and series and also atleast 50 Tb of flacs ? Would it not be possible to change the processor in the future to a better/faster one ?
Again in this video you forgot to talk about one of the most important things, Bandwidth! A Nas with PCI 3.0 x2 will make bottleneck in your ssd, different than PCI 3.0 x4. In the same way that the model and speed of the M.2 SSD its relevant for the speed of caching. Really important thing that can make Huge changes in your Nas reading/writing speed.
Would be nice to see some comments on this. From what I could tell, you only need enough RAM to manage the cache, around 204mb per 500gb of cache. So in my case, I only have 4gb of RAM on my Synology, but that should still cover the 4tb of cache I'm planning to use. Let's say its actually 250mb RAM required per 500gb of cache. 8 x 500gb is 4tb, so you would need 8 x 250mb, which is 2gb. Then another 300mb for DSM 7 and you're left with 1.3gb for whatever else. (I'm not doing Plex, just some video editing, albeit heavy 6k RAW footage, plus a bit of music production and digital art.) So yes, I'll have to monitor things and see how it goes, but I think its very possible I won't have to buy more RAM. (I did however max out my iMac with 64gb of RAM for some reason lol.)
Here to make the 100th comment: Well, too late. I invested 2xM2 IronWolf 1TB and installed it on my 720+. Could not see any benefit. Not even from the Docker container where I run a Omada Controller. I ran the Cache Analysis tool and after one week it says that I need just 91GB of cache :-/
Hi, Need help with why overheating when data write-in system alarm then the cache of Raid 1 come out error of one slot P1, i use two 1TB 970EVO Plus NVMe M.2 in my 453Be, please give me some advice to fix it, Thank you.
This guy is so smart on such an obscure topic
Not so obsecure, but sure he knows his s+&t
Thank you so much for this explanation, this is very important for a plex media server implementation on a NAS and has helped me make a direction I was looking for.
Very informative series of videos on topic that is getting more important.
On a DS1621xs+ with SSD cache it does seem sequential access is helped as well. Nothing miraculous, but between that and the random r/w boost our VMs fly
Excellent idea to educate about SSD cache.
I would like to add more, such as;
I've noticed the "wear-and-tear" on a SSD (M.2 NVMe's to be exact) used for caching severely impacts the life-expectancy. (according to the health-check of the NAS itself)
Where one normally can use a SSD for many years, using them for caching brings this down to only a few years, I have noticed in our environment.
M.2 SSD's used for caching can get hot, and it sometimes requires you to put a heatsink on the controller-chip(!), so you will need to find out on your M.2 SSD where the controller-chip is located.
And of course if you calculate the price per MB, SSD's are still quite expensive...
Interestingly I always tend to see these "before you buy" videos just after I bought the thing. Just yesterday I ordered 2 synology nvme drives. :-)
@@stevenp3176 Since I do use slow spinning HDs in the NAS and I do plan to run Applications directly from the Storage It is currently more like a peace of mind thing. I have yet to test out the impact on write speed especially or the difference when running games of the network share as compared to running them locally. I can only guess that running the same program every day would benefit access times greatly.
@@elfwyn8707 You are running software directly from the NAS? Not like software you run ON the NAS, but from the NAS like on the PC? Never heard of someone doing that, isn't that horribly slow? I mean you'd only have around 110MB/s unless you have more than 1Gbit/s ethernet. Just curious!
@@AdrianSchwizgebel It actually works pretty good speed wise, even though I dont even saturate the 10Gbe connection fully. My main problem is that not all windows programs cope well with network drives and tend to hickup when the drive is not available all the time. This has given me headaches with GOG Galaxy for example.
Love the hardware wall of fame in your background. Since you are Mr. NAS, I would not be surprised that manufacturers are paying attention that their brand is represented behind you on these general information videos.
He has a NAS webshop.... So I guess boxes will enough.
Great video with clear pros and cons!
Awesome video.
Please make a video on DRAM-less SSDs like Samsung 980 for caching.
Thanks for more Cache, etc info.
great explanation. thank you so much for that!
With my recently bought TVS673 I added an extension card and PCIe NVME Cache because I went for slower Harddrives. I thought that write Operations would offload incoming data onto the NVME Cache, but in reality I am still capped at the write speed of those slower Harddisk and don't get even close 10Gbe throughput even with the largest files and of course Jumbo Frames enabled.
Great point about SSC Cache. Which DAS/NAS solution would you suggest then for video editing, that is, editing directly off of the DAS/NAS in a Raid 5 configuration with Thunderbolt connectivity. The OWC Thunderbay 8 or the QNAP 672XT 6 Bay? I will be editing a feature film, so I'll be accessing large amount of data frequently.
I use my NAS strictly for one part of my 3-2-1 data backup, so I didn't use SSD caching. I also found that the WD Black SN770 1TB SSDs get really hot in my Asustor AS6704T when the NVMe is heavily used. Heatsinks are probably required. I did make the NVMe Volume 1 though, which puts ADM onto the NVMe for fast performance.
Glad I saw this before I bought the cache mem. I thought the large files was what benefited, Thanks for the heads up!
This is why my Plex Server just stores files on the NAS. I have a 4 drive NAS serving files (mostly plex). My Plex Server is a 4 core w/2080ti pn an SSD with 32GB RAM. Works quite well under linux.
Thank you , this answer my question, should I buy the NAS with cache,? I think I just need synology 220+
Anyway know if installing 2 x M.2 drives into my new DS920+ will improve the latency of running footage from Survellience?
Great upload btw - really enjoying these videos. Subbed!
Not really - It will not help with sustained workloads like recording surveillance, and I would avoid a write cache as it will wear the SSD down faster than the HDD, but a read cache may help playback access
@@bengrogan9710 That's really helpful; thanks very much. Thank you also for translating my poor grammar - my comment reads like a 5 year old wrote it!
good tips to know. thanks.
Brilliant as usual, but doesn’t a NAS used for video editing benefit from nvme cache since while file sizes can be large they aren’t necessarily sequential especially when scrubbing down a timeline?
What size do you want you Ssd? Can you use other brands or it has go be Synology. Just mounting my system I have a 920+ and planning on putting Exos 16gb.
Would like to have heard about one SSD to write cache and one SSD to read cache.. instead of using them combined as read/write and if there were any benefits to doing so.. since I would think the read cache would be larger and get hit more than write cache… so having a larger read cache and a smaller write cache (both like 1tb ssd)
Very Informative video, as usual!
I'm a creative professional working mainly with after effects at very high resolutions (up to 24k), and I just bought a qnap TVS-h1688X, 32gb, that is being set-up with six ironwolf pro 16tb, a single m2 4TB SDD to be used as cache, in a quts-hero z1Z1 OS (around 80TB usable space).
After seeing your video I'm getting really confused.
My primary reason to invest on this unit was to try to get a fast unified network space for my three workstations. The network is running in a 10gb.
All my primary files are from 40MB, 80MB up to the 800MB single file stills images sequences that will create a video sequence.
Question if you are kind to answer:
To maximize the total speed of the 6 ironwolf in this unit, should I add one more 4TB SSD (should I set it up as read only or read/write back?) or should I increase the total amount of memory installed?
Many thx for this and other videos, it has been a climbing learning experience for me.
Would something like this be able to be used for running a game server, or is it not the same thing at all? I've very new to NAS and looking to build a home server that I can use for backup, streaming my own library, as well as possible running a server for a game here or there for my and my friends.
are the m.2 ssd drives the same for Synology NAS and for PC Motherboards ?
Hello. If you install 2 1tb nvme as read write how much memory it will consume? 416x2048 or 416x1024?
I'll install in a lockerstor 4 with 4gb of ram. Thank you
Hey, do you know if I can use two drives (the same hardware and software) of different size to create read-write cache? I have 500gb and 250gb sticks.
I bought my 2 x 1tb nvme drives about a months ago and though it just worked for the whole NAS system, But you have to map 1 x nvme drive to a disk and same go's for the other nvme drive. I have them setup with read only atm. And they only ever fill up max I've seen 20gb =(
What about SSD Cache, when you are reading/writing small sequential incremented frames? (output_0000.png, output_0001.png, ...output_2599.png...) and accessing them with several computers like a VFX renderfarm... ?
I don’t know if it is just the system showing a number to complement me or not. My 920+ with 2 Synology 400GB NVMe as R/W cache shows over 90% hit rate with 367GB/372GB capacity used. I have another 918+ used in workplace with 2x 256GB WD Black NVMe as R/W cache, with ~90% hit rate with 180GB/232GB used. But the 918+ cache willl degrade every 1 or 2 months and require a reboot to restore.
Which website do you go to compare ratios of the most VRAM or DRAM cache per dollar?
I know cache deals with storage data. But can´t the OS of the NAS be mounted on the SSD? If this is possible, would that mean, that I loose the "cache" option, as the SSD is just another storage where the OS happens to be. Or can the 2 live parallel with each other, meaning: SSD is Cache als well as a speedy platform where the OS is located.
Thanx for any ideas and help. .
Hey man, so I've got the TS-453BT3, and when I go to create a New Volume the 1TB NVME SSD do not show up as being available for setup. I searched around and thought that because they were 1TB NVME that they would not be compatible with the NAS (after doing research and compatibility checks on the QNAP site), I then went purchased slower 1TB m.2 SSD, and they still do not show up as being available in the New Volume drop down menu. Do I need to install drivers or am I doing something else wrong? Would appreciate any and all tips guy. Thanks
Since the topic is hot again, is it true that synology requires raid1 if you choose read/write caching? Also, is it possible to create a raid1 and allocate a partition as cache and another as volume?
I can't find anywhere, if the Synology DS1621+ has two PCIE4 or 3 slots. I wanna buy an M.2, but I don't know if I should buy a faste PCIE4 or not. -pls help! TY
With Synology Nas, can you not just boot OS directly from an m 2 nvme?
Hey, I hate to ask this here, but I’ve been trying to get in touch with Qnap support for weeks with no luck:
I bought a dual nvme QM2 card with 10gbe base T port for my TX-831x. I currently have it installed without SSDs for the extra port. The write speeds are good, but the read speeds are under 10MB/sec 😳
Does this card need SSDs installed to reach full 10Gbe read speeds or is it broken??
Well I’m planning on installing read write cache on my ds1621xs+…. I do have the Plex use case so generally it sounds like I won’t benefit.. however I wonder about the way that Usenet downloaders deal with chunks of files (rar files) then unpack - would an SSD cache help there? I'm thinking that the Usenet service does all that work on SSD cache then moves it as a big file to it's destination folder in media.
I have shr using btrfs so I not sure if that changes it.
Thanks.... Again very informative. Can you talk one time about NIC's? some Nas have two 1 Gbe some have 1gbe and 2.5. I read about trunking??
Can I connect the 2.5gbe directly to my pc it has also 2.5gbe connection. Can I let the rest of the network go over 1gbe? Thanks.
Trunking is where you set up multiple links to the same device, either as separate redundant links incase of a hardware failure or via "link aggregation" to create a 2gbe connection by binding the 2 1gbe lines as 1 logical NIC
The 2nd question - Yes that can be done, you are then making it functionally a DAS for your main computer so it will need a 2nd connection to the network, and the 1gbe connection on the NAS to feed the network as normal
It might take some minor admin changes but it would easily work
How about speeding up access from hibernation? Assuming I will have the nas in hibernation by default, only need it a small handful of times a day to say have my phone backup the odd photo I took, or for it to take a daily backup from a family computer, or on the occasion I want to backup the day's work files... so not primary storage use but still nice for it to be fairly snappy when needed. So my assumption has been that if using a cache, say your phone connects and sends over a photo you took with Synology's photo app, would it be more quick and seamless as the cache takes the file before the disks have spent their 10+ seconds spinning up? Or would it make no difference and you still need to wait for disks to spin up?
can i have 2 ssd cards that are different memory sizes? i have a samsung 1 tb nvme card set up on my synology nas in a read cache only, if i get another card to set up a read/write cache- does it have to be 1 tb or can i get a 500gb(i'm cheap)? he recommends setting this up in a raid 1, which i would probably follow- please chime in!
Can I do a JBOD with 2 drives in raid 1 and a separate SSD in a four bay Synology 918? Or does it have to be all JBOD or all in a single raid?
Would you please show us how to setup a SSD as a disk cache?
Will the SSD cache improve my PiHole DNS performance? That's gotta be my most used service by far. And my Terraria docker server.
There's probably not a lot of headroom for improvement on my little home NAS.
How about a media server that is equally used for video and music (smaller files)? I assume it would be a benefit there?
7:00: Where does his memory from the background come from when utilizing cache ?
With dual 400 GB SSDs in RAID 1 they are mirrored with a total capacity of 400 GB of read/write. Obviously with 1, 400 GB SSD there is no mirroring still with a capacity of 400 GB. Therefore is the difference between 1 and 2 SSDs really just the data integrity and mirroring and not an increase in CACHE capacity?
What if you have window on SSD nvme gen 4 ~5000mbps r/w and make a new nvme gen 4 ssd @7400mb r/w as a cache drive will it be beneficial in regards of performance?
Newbie here with 3 questions. My scenario: I'm on QuTS hero (ZFS) with TS-873A (64GB ram, two M.2, 8 HDDs), and my priority is using the NAS like a "deluxe" DAS (connected directly to the PC via LAN cable, no other connections from the internet) just to archive my large raw videos (weird .MLV format) in the most "safety" way (hence ZFS, ECC ram, etc.) My priority is not grading directly the NAS' files. Instead, my primary use will be probably limited to save my "originals" in the NAS, and copy a selection of them to the PC drives once I'll need them for a grading project. Now the questions:
1. Having the correct preservation of my files as a priority, do You think I should disable the default "compression" option of the shared folders in ZFS?
2. If I copy a file from PC to a "compressed" ZFS folder, how can I verify the integrity of the archived copy via md5 or sha? (Since the compression, a software like TeraCopy could return errors...)
3. I can image that "de/compression" on-the-fly can benefit not only from ram but also from a good cache. Anyway, QuTS hero recommendation is to dedicate a first fast volume to the OS. So, in this scenario, is it preferable to use the two M.2 as first-volume for the OS installation, or as a read/write cache for the HDDs archive? (Thanks in advance.)
so are those ssd for caching only, what about using them as actual storage medium?
The memory usage in my Synology NAS shows about 6G (of the 8G installed) as “cached.” Is the memory cache being used the same way as an SSD cache?
Essentially yes - Consider it a "tiered" system
You want to have a volume of cache big enough for your random IOPS
as mentioned in the video the reason you likely don't feel the need for an SSD cache when using a Plex server is because the RAM caching is enough for that task
RAM is the fastest caching you have but capacity is limited - 8gb installed for you, absolute best many can get is "unofficial" 64gb
Next Tier down is an SSD cache - Slower than a RAM cache but still orders of magnitude faster than spinning rust but you can get SSD's cheaply at 256gb or 512gb
Lowest tier is spinning rust where you will feel the hit as a HDD has in inbuilt cache of about 64mb as a final buffer
Thank gou for this video ....
I added 2 512 gb ssd cache to my synology for my plex use..and i have to say there is a significant diffrents in the way plex loads info ,dont even notice it .super smooth
Synology ds918+
16gb memory
4×10tb iron wolf
2 × m sata 512gb
Were there benefits for NVR? I don't remember you talking about them in the video but I remember you mention it in another video but there were some benefits. Thanks
Next to non for write as the data feel is constant
It could make access for playback, especially scrubbing a playback back and forth looking for a specific event on camera much smoother
Can my read and write dual SSD cache drives be DRAMLESS? (and SATA)
Thank you very much :-)
Can you please clarify one point? If I want to add SSD write caching to an existing RAID5 volume on a NAS with a 2.5gbe ethernet connection, the purpose of which is to accelerate writes past the 110MB/sec I see on a gigabit NAS, AND I need to see that performance gain on the writing of large files (reading is not as important), will SSD caching be beneficial? Will the SSD cache compensate for the slowdown introduced by RAID5 parity calculations? Would I be able to see at least 200 MB/sec?
I think the differences that you will see externally via the use of caching is negligible. The initialisation of the caching (AKA the 'burn in') as the system identifies which data needs to be cached on the SSD takes a little time. Additionally, the main benefits of caching or internally (i.e the file handing inside the system and the performance/responsive of the system too). Over time you WOULD see external performance benefits, but only on smaller file access, not really larger file/data (eg ISOs/images).
I work in 3d and render out image sequences. Sounds like ssd cache doesn’t make things run coaster for me because even if my individual images are small the are sequential and won’t be prioritized into cache. Is this correct?
Sounds correct. 3d/mograph guy here as well, with new Synology DS1621. From all I've read a cache won't much help users like us. At least not until they make the software more flexible/intelligent in how we can use it. The 10Gig network option, on the other hand, makes massive difference.
Please explain what happens in the event of hardware failure when using SSD Cache (Both for Read-Only and Read-Write options).
I think the Read-Write can be VERY DANGEROUS in the event of hardware failure.
how to setup ?
I've got a question. Will having an SSD cache help me reduce the drive noise? I noticed you said that there will be less performance benefits for Plex, but constant downloading and reading creates quite a bit of drive noise in my DS1521+ 😅
same thing, if you constantly access the same files over and over, then yes. but if you are constantly accessing random files each time, then they wont be recently cached so no, the files will be pulled from the mechanical drives and thus noise
@@nefariou5 I actually solved a lot of the noise issues by creating a volume on the SSD and moving all my apps, docker containers and temp download folders there :P
What is an acceptable / beneficant size for an SSD drive to used for caching?
I’m new to this but from what I’m reading it seems to me you don’t really need that much if used for Cache. Seeing people buying 4TB for cache-is that really beneficial or a costly hindrance?
Should I use two identical SSDs, for SSD caching, or not? For example, can I use one Samsung SSD 960 EVO 250GB with one Samsung SSD 970 EVO PRO 250GB, both NVMe? Thank you very much!
You can only use those NVMe grade SSDs for storage pools in a QNAP or Asustor. Synology will only allow caching. Also, you technically CAN mix the SSD tyes in caching, but it is not advised, as they will not be accessed similarly and with the same latency (caching is set up in areas of RAID, such as RAID 0 or RAID 1) so it might drop in performance enough to largely invalidate their use. Hope this helps.
I have Synology DS420+ with 4x8TB drives on RAID5. This Diskstation comes with 2xSSD cache slots. We have about 700GB data. How much cache should I buy? Would 2x400GB modules do?
For most home use you are better with upgrading the RAM as much as possible 1st
What about for vmware vm storage? Do running vm's create random or sequential access?
Oh listened again and you say vm image is a big block load. Then I guess after load all the files will still be in that 1 area.
What I missed being said is that as long your NAS isn't connected to a high bandwidth network connection you won't benefit from SSD caching.
Easy 2 ssd in raid 0 on separate volume use has dump drive then daliy backups to raid 5 or 6 on HDDs my setup
Just checked the specs on my new TS-653D and found the PCIe slot is rated at Gen 2 X 2. I would've wasted my money buying the expansion card. It can't give 10gb or Gen 3 nvme performace.
Good video
I don't have casche for that cache
So, if I am correctly interpreting this, if I am primarily using my 920+ NAS for RAW Photo files editing/storage and video editing/storage, then the SSD Cache is of no benefit to me? I also plan to use it to back up my PCs too. Just got one and have it setup with extra RAM but no SSD Cache yet. It's formatted and running DSM but I haven't started using it yet. If I won't benefit, I'd rather not spend the money!! Thanks for saving me some money!
Hmm, that's not how I understand it, but I too am a novice. I just now (moments ago) purchased 2 Samsung 2TB NVMe drives on B & H. 189.99 each, so "saved" about 220 dollars. Was planning to set them as read-only, mainly for video editing, and other random stuff, like a bit of music production and digital art. Now I'm wondering if I should try a read-write configuation, but... reading is what really slows things down from my limited understanding, so may stick with read-only. (And get access to most of that sweet, sweet juicy 4TB of cache!)
I'm under the strong impression that NVMe cache will help alot with video editing (and probably photo editing too, in your case). BUT, you would probably also need 10gbe, so if you don't have that, then... yeah probably won't see the benefits of NVMe. (I'm using an iMac, so I got a Thunderbolt to 10gbe adapter device, which then connects via eithernet cable to the 10gbe card I installed in my Synology DS1621+... anyway, hope something I wrote helped point you in the right direction, ha.)
@@mrhobs thank you. I agree with, but I plan on editing on my internal SSDs, not on the NAS, so since he stated it does not speed up copying large files over, (video files and 50mb+ raw photo files) I'd rather spend that SSD money on larger HDDs for storage. Hopefully I understood him correctly. 😊
@@keithspurlock4732 Yeah I think you made the right call in your use case. If you're just copying the file completely over to SSD before working on it, then you are right, the NVMe won't help with the copying speed... not even sure if you'd need the extra RAM for that, but I guess it'll help your interface run snappier?
For me, I'd have to be continually accessing the NAS as I scrub through video timelines in the editor, as there is no way to fit the whole project (maybe some smaller ones) on my 1TB internal iMac. I guess I could have incorporated some SSDs into the NAS, but since NVMe are even faster, I'll be essentially using those instead... as they automatically get populated with my most used files. Yeah... lots of options, my brain doesn't want to think about it anymore, I'm just gonna hope my configuration works. (Probably will get it set up today or tomorrow).
Oh and I ended up getting some cheap unsupported ECC RAM for the NAS, so I'll have the full 32gb... wish me luck! 😅
I am totally new to Nas.
I want to buy one to be able to stream and store my video's also want to use it as a flac server. So i can stream my music to my amplifier.
But i have zero knowledge about a Nas. I want to be futureproof. And also storage proof for the future.
I have watched a lot of your video's. But a lot is abacadabra after a few minutes. Do not know what VM is.
If i understand correctly a Nas also can be used for usenet. So with my phone i could anywhere start a download ?
I am the kind of person who first needs to buy one and then due to learning become aware that he shoukd have bought a DSxxxx xx.
I still have a 1080p tv. But in the future i will buy one. And my monitor is a widescreen.
I was thinking about a DS1621+
But from watching your video it is a model thar i should not buy ? I wanted that one because of the possibility of 10Gb nic in the future. I have a Ten Gb network.
I wanted to start with two 12 Tb Nas hd's. So i can start with getting to know how a nas works and have enough storage to begin. And still be safe if one hd will fail.
I have a lot of external hd's laying around. But i want everything stored at one place.
Am i correct from one of your video's that the DS1621+ is not a good Nas to use it at home for streaming and encoding ?
The xs version is 700.00 Euro more expensive. And i already find the DS1621+ a lot of money.
What i find strange. Why would Synology buikd a 1621+ Nas that has a very budget processor that almost can not handle video playing and encoding ? Did they do this so that there is a big difference between the 1621+ and the 1621xs ? I find 1800.00 Euro for a Nas a lot of money.
Could you confirm that the DS1621+ is not a good Nas for my use ? To store large amounts of data ? In the end somewhere around 80 Tb of movies and series and also atleast 50 Tb of flacs ?
Would it not be possible to change the processor in the future to a better/faster one ?
Bro you should open a data center
So the plex meta data and thumbnails etc would be a good use.
any test data regarding ssd cache?
Quite a few vids on the channel for that. Also the recent WD Red SN700 and Seagate Ironwolf 525 review videos have a bunch of write caching tests
Again in this video you forgot to talk about one of the most important things, Bandwidth! A Nas with PCI 3.0 x2 will make bottleneck in your ssd, different than PCI 3.0 x4. In the same way that the model and speed of the M.2 SSD its relevant for the speed of caching. Really important thing that can make Huge changes in your Nas reading/writing speed.
7:30 if he’s talking kilobits - author meant 203 megabits not megabytes
Thank you for the correction dude, appreciated.
So SSD caching is useless for Plex..
Video files would benefit from 7200rpm drives.
Basically, if I only use my NAS for video or music (like Plex), I don't really need SSD cache, am i right?
Key word "bear in mind"
Please could you make a video showing how to upgrade a 720+ to a 2.5gbe via a driver upgrade using github.com/bb-qq/r8152 (if it's possible :-)
And yet we still don't have a Synology NAS with 8 bays and native NVMe slots with the ability to use a Dual Port SFP+ card
This comment aged well, the DS1821+ is the perfect NAS for me now haha
I just want my Photo Folders to load faster and mostly the Thumbnails 😄
Get as much RAM in your NAS as possible. Caches of any type are just overflow from RAM. Perhaps an NVMe is the fastest cache than any other drive.
Would be nice to see some comments on this. From what I could tell, you only need enough RAM to manage the cache, around 204mb per 500gb of cache. So in my case, I only have 4gb of RAM on my Synology, but that should still cover the 4tb of cache I'm planning to use.
Let's say its actually 250mb RAM required per 500gb of cache. 8 x 500gb is 4tb, so you would need 8 x 250mb, which is 2gb. Then another 300mb for DSM 7 and you're left with 1.3gb for whatever else. (I'm not doing Plex, just some video editing, albeit heavy 6k RAW footage, plus a bit of music production and digital art.) So yes, I'll have to monitor things and see how it goes, but I think its very possible I won't have to buy more RAM. (I did however max out my iMac with 64gb of RAM for some reason lol.)
Here to make the 100th comment: Well, too late. I invested 2xM2 IronWolf 1TB and installed it on my 720+. Could not see any benefit. Not even from the Docker container where I run a Omada Controller. I ran the Cache Analysis tool and after one week it says that I need just 91GB of cache :-/
SSD as a NAS storage medium? Bleh!
Im not a fan of the idea of drives that have a hard limit on writes.
Thanks.,
sub'd at 02h30... sleep now...
Ta
UA-cam Algorithm
Hi, Need help with why overheating when data write-in system alarm then the cache of Raid 1 come out error of one slot P1, i use two 1TB 970EVO Plus NVMe M.2 in my 453Be, please give me some advice to fix it, Thank you.