Honestly J-7E is one of the only top tier jets I fear the most apart from the MLD. The flight performance & missiles are actually quite scary to go up against even if I was in something like the F-5E or MiG-21bis. Combined the fact that most J-7E players I've come across are at the very least competent players makes it even scarier bcs they rarely mess up a dogfight
Dude everytime I got teamed with china I always win lol enemy have no idea how to deal with j7e. And yeah for those players china is probably not their first top tier nation.
If you fear the MLD you should fear the MLA simple as that lol. Same aircraft but I'll just assume when you claim MLD you probs just mean MLA also. Cause their literally the same lmao.
From a historical pov both J7e and J8b were upgraded to fight late 3rd gen to 4th gen USSR and NATO fighters like Mig29/Su27 and F14/15/16 - not because they actually can, but an act of desperate make-do due to china's extremely limited military budget during the 80s and 90s. This being said, these planes did eventually (like during the 90s) end up a notch or two over the older phantoms and migs. So in terms of WT its a bit like letting early pt76s fight king tigers for a comparison. The Chinese air force didn't receive a fundamental increase in capability until importing Su27 assembly line close to year 2000.
J7e is underapreciated as a jet, doesn't get enough praise for how good the fm is, the energy retention above 1000kph (compresses a bit) gives it survivability ie dodging missiles and making 180degree turns without losing much energy, if you need to dogfight anyone just pop the airbrake to get below 900kph and the maneuverability with some bleed will allow you to turn inside everything except a draken, at lower speeds the tw keeps you alive in a sustained fight as well
True mate Everytime I fly any other plane than the J-7E and I see ont in fights, I know something's wrong I can feel it. And when I fly the J-7E the best I can, I end up with high rewarding games (3-6 kills)
Pakistan air force skin looks quite radiant and catchy on J7. Its fair enough to use PAF skin as it uses most advance variant of J7 called F7pg. Yeah no doubt before recent update PL5 missiles were almost useless. I was so disappointed at first that I stopped playing J7e and resorted to only Mig21 f13 (quite similar to J7) but its r13 missile was much better. But now pl5 with 30 G's is absolutely precise and I love J7e now. Thanks for the comprehensive review on this underrated jet. 👍
The way that I utilize All-aspect short range IRs is to fire them below 1.3km away from the target while going supersonic, and as close as 0.5km with the R60M at 600kph. It usually doesn’t get spotted in time, or allow them to pull enough for their flares to work.
4:38 Good to know I'm not the only one that has this happening to them, flares not rendering. The next great hit in Gaijin's "What can we fuck up next?" play. More and more flares have been not rendering lately, leading to me firing and wasting the missile I had spooled up since it wasn't even locked onto the plane like it said it was. I'd wager that if those had rendered properly you may not have fired that PL-5.
Sorry buddy, but the true best top tier jet in warthunder isnt even a jet- its a rocket- the ME-163 obviously is the best top tier plane in the game, why else would it be rated so highly amongst it's peers when its so old??? No other plane can do what it does- which is kill its pilot so effectively no other plane stands a chance at beating it in such matters.
I started using 2 Aspides on J8 instead of just pl-5’s, i get same results personally so i enjoy the difference. Trying to ace it like i have J7. Sometimes i whiff the gun super hard too. But idk what people are saying, but MLA, 104, kfir, 21bis; easy to get to mach 1.4+ at altitude on normal maps But yah hard to argue R24T is not best IR 😬
The j7e is definitely my favorite jet. Even before the pl5 upgrade, this jet just has the best dynamics and once you get accustomed to the cannon, it can be pretty effective too.
Why should the production date matter? As far as capabilities go, it's fairly balanced compared to other to tier jets.. Also, while it is true it was produced in the 90's, it's a budget jet based on a late 50's design, not exactly a 4+ generation aircraft.
Well i can confirm when i take off in my j7 or j8 i throw these missiles at the enemy asap and then i return to rearm while spamming flares. I normally get 3+ kills on average with this
this plane is ridiculously good, the flight model is completely broken it flies like a mach2 f16 while most real life mig 21s and j7s cant dogfight because of massive stablility issues war thunder does not give a shit. it bothers me that no nato country really has anything to combat these planes that overperform not only to their real counterparts but planes they were historically way worse than
It's good just find it's big and heavy. Holds energy well so susceptible to overshooting! Don't think Germany has many jets coming in 4th gen? Euro fighter typhoon and tornado being only ones I can think of
Maybe it’s just me but I get more kills with r3s I think I’ve only got 9 kills throughout all my playtime with r13m1s can’t wait to unlock the all aspect r60s and the r23t/r
@@funynonsence remember that you are shooting players that are new to jets and missiles so maybe that it why you have more luck with the worse missiles.
@@orbitalpotato9940 maybe but I doubt people are new to missiles at 11.0 I’m flying the mig23m grinding out the mld and like I said I’ve had more success with the r3s
You mention missiles not really working, 90% of games in the F-4J I get a Sparrow kill. But as you pointed out flairs and chaff work a bit too well and most players don't seem to carry chaff, and an F-4J flying so low I am scrapping my gun pod along the ground people don't seem to notice me. With the latest update I did notice that the F-4J's radar doesn't seem to want to lock on to MiG23, 27 and J7's & 8's but will gladly go for MiG 21's F-4's JA-37's and most of all Mirage F1C's, don't know why, just an observation
Dont know if you have alredy, but you should do a vid on the F-8E its missels def arent the best, but it can dog fight anything even at 11.3, I'm a top tier console player and I've killer kafirs and j7 and the j8 with little issue, it's only problem is if its facing more than two at a time then it starts getting a bit overwhelmed but a decent amount of flares
What is the point of all aspect? To shoot at people from the front. What happens when you shoot at people from the front? Flared, easier than any other shot. When will an all aspect shot actually hit? When your target isn’t paying attention (shocker, just like every other missile). The odds of the target not seeing a frontal launch is very slim, and is a chronic case of L2P All that being said, the PL5 has superior attributes to all aspects except for the fact it isn’t all aspect, which i’m more than willing to trade off
@@SeekerHead In the case of the R24T it means you can fire off the missile at 10km in a side aspect shot and then have a guaranteed hit when the missile enters the 4km all-aspect range. If it were simply rear aspect then the missile would likely lose lock while traveling to the target or wouldn't lock at all.
You’re missing the entire point of my comment. I’m not denying that all aspect missiles are, in fact, all aspect. No shit, i’m saying that the usefulness of all aspect is very much up for debate. Against a good player, it doesn’t matter how close your 24T is fired, “4km guaranteed hit” my ass. It’s very easily flarable and somebody that isn’t a moron is going to flare it. And if you’re firing them at 10km, you’re probably not going to hit them anyway simply due to them accidentally kinetically evading it, that’s really far away especially on the deck. Then of course they have the additional option of flaring it as well. All that being said, Id rather have a missile with No G overload on launch, 6 extra Gs of pull, and in the case of all missiles except the 24T, a wider FOV to lead with and superior range/motor burn time ratio
12:20 the engines are more effecient at that alt, so that's why engagements irl often start at high alt, but to avoid the first batch of amramms or alike, you have to dive by notching anyways, otherwise you are dead. So just shows, that indeed the radar is very weak in game and the maps are still to small.
@@SeekerHead real life is per definiton not nonsense. Also like you mentioned DCS: Why is WT not closer to it? Especially bigger map size for sim and asynchronous fights would help a lot.
because war thunder and dcs are nothing alike and if it tried to be the game would fail miserably. Not everybody wants to play pretend fighter pilot. War thunder is far more accessible and keeps a video game feel while balancing realism. Coming from someone who has both, I prefer WT 10 times out of 10. DCS community is not only immensely cringe, but it just takes too much time and effort to play, it's not a game for an average gamer. I called the "real life" stuff nonsense because it is nonsense. This is a video game, not real life. It will never try to be like real life and it shouldn't
@@SeekerHead But why is there simulator battles and why were realistic battles called histrorical battles? And they still market the battles as: "In War Thunder, aircraft, attack helicopters, ground forces and naval vessels collaborate in realistic competitive battles" So is it realistic to start the combat on 2 km² maps? To have a helipad 4 km out? I know, it is a game and always will be. Especially the economics are out of thin air, but they don't market a realistic economy, with would also be bad, but that's another point. I understand that there has to be compromises, but especially something that calls itself "simulator battles" and has the goal of being a realistic competitive battle, many simple things don't match up. I understand the fireing via the mous, but being able to engage the enemy 10 secounds after liftoff in helis, is in my opinion to much. That we don't have a 2 h flight per direction is understandable and I think that would be to far, but 10 secounds is way to short. Similar with only having short range AA and then putting them very close to the battle, where both sides are attaking. That makes no strategical sence. If 1 would defend, and the other attak, then yeah, give the defending party closer spawns etc and therefore the enemy more people. Then you would also solve the mm-problem in sb, since there are often more people for one side, than the other. Yes, it has limits, but imo they could push that further, witch also would solve problems. Yes it takes way more effort to get startet, but also investing stuff, getting to know stuff better and therefore having also an advantage, like using MEC in Props, especially when having damage. I don't expect every button in wt sb to work, like the oxygen valves, or needing 20 inputs to start the engine, and also the fm not being perfect. But there is reason AB, RB and SB exists. If you want a WoT/WoWP etc experience with a bit more realism, then go to AB. If you want even more realistic, especially for the vehicle dynamic, and want more effort in spotting enemies (a skill) then take rb. If you hate the spotting system in air RB, don't like the advantages from 3rd person etc, and want the most realistic mmo possible, then SB. But SB is mostly just a more fixed lineup, no 3rd person, no friendly markers, no mouse aim for aircraft and thankfully the EC maps, witch work good for props. But no different strategies and except the heavier emphasis on AI targets in air SB (except the Carriers, witch give you nothing on destruction), the missions have the identical profile. This never changes, and would aid the aircraft types, that aren't build for ATA or CAS. Mostly the bombers, but like with the PVE with helis it could help everyone. Yes, it shouldn't be purely PVE, but since to little people want to drive a tank for 20 km as their main task, it has to have a PVE-part. Then you could bring player controlled AA in there, so you have heilis vs aa just singled out, instead of in a unrealistical close version in ground rb/sb. Also you would need to protect the tanks, witch should give you your main income, unlike the system now, where it is best, to go kinda egoistic in the best position and not constantly bait for example. It is not 1 baiting and 1 killing gives similar points, but both are needed (if same energy state etc) in that effecient setup. So even in a squad it is not good for 1 player to purely bait, witch is a very good thing to get the other 2 or 3 9 kills or so. Similar as an AA you stay outside the danger zone, witch sometimes is even the spawn, so you don't get killed by tanks, and get into the best position to get the helis or alike. You don't follow the tanks, so that when they can be attakt, also you can attak the one heli attaking. No, it is better, even if losing because of this, to stay way back, to wait until the helis overpush, or to drive aa's like 1 R3-variant as a light tank and ignore shooting planes, even if the plane would kill half of your team, it is better, to get some ground kills, a cap, then shot 1 plane down, witch would instaloose you. This aspect is almost completely missing
its insanely powerful. i'd put it at #2 of the top 5: MLD/MLA, J-7E, F-4EJ Kai, F-4E, F-5E or MiG 23M/MF(yes i know its controversial but i have really been enjoying it recently)
There’s no way that a *single* Phantom is on that list without the Viggen being there. Having 2 more radar missiles doesn’t mean anything when your radar is dogshit (F-4E) or you have absolutely no turning ability (any other Phantom). Especially when regular 25G Sparrows are as easy to fool as they are now, I’d much rather drop the -2x Sparrows in exchange for some of the best maneuverability in the game
@@collander7766 its not just air to air performance, it is also general performance of the aircraft with ground attack capabilities, flight time, gun performance, countermeasure count, etc
-social credit for killing a-7e, first its name very similar to excellent j-7e, second he just grinding agm-62 for killing tanks so more people will start playing planes
Bro forgot lots of people at top tier are capable of dying to the dumbest things, this guy is an exception, most people will die to sparrows and other random things
i measure the effectiveness of stuff assuming the one using it is competent. Obviously there is an abundance of morons at top tier, but that's not going to change how i base the effectiveness of vehicles
The only mig 23 that would be effective in dogfighting rn is the MLD the M/MF and MLA don’t have the required maneuverability and hold their speed way to well to turn tightly in short time
The J8 has 6 pylons that can carry missiles, but the FCS computer is so bad makes a raspberry pi look like a high end machine. It can only support 4 missiles max of any type or it shorts.
@@DveTriEbole the plane is unable to use more than 4 missiles, hence it has 4 in game. That's based on real life, just like the limited loadouts for other planes in game.
I think either the MLD or fgr2 are the best as they can both be pushed into any role as there versatility makes them fun and reliable. Even though the phantom is heavy the fgr2 carrys rolls Royse speys which allows you to energy fight really well
hey, can i ask, how do you use guns in top tier, i never get kills rlly i do bombing then try and use missiles but i donw know how to rlly use guns in top tier and actually hit, any tips?
grinding entire trees for a top tier isn’t necessarily a good reason, the top tier meta changes too frequently, the best now might be the worst a month from now
@@SeekerHead good man I’ve been getting 2 to 4 kills average with J8B using its insane pull in merges catching silly phantom kiddos while there still in mid circle with glorious PL5B’s lol it gives a sweet satisfaction to be able to pull and lead as much as I need to complemented with the excellent pull of the PL5’s to give that SRAMM killing potential in tight dogfights
@@SeekerHead I heard it got a thrust nerf and a max G overload buff, but after looking at the change logs it looks like this vid came out after the server update where it was implemented - April 5. I've stopped playing with PD equipped top tier jets recently. F-5E is the only jet I have that is fun to fly at that BR and I'm considering the Chinese tree.
@@AT-bo6ww j7e irl carries pl9/pl8 and then there's the j7g with pl8/pl9 and pl11 I don't believe the lancer has fox 1 capabilities and upgraded pl11 said to have active seeker idk for sure that would give it fox 3 capabilities as well
I find this one of the saddest things in warthunder, we get new tech ,sparrows and all other radar missiles ! And instead of adapting and learning a new way to play , cranking and other ways to defend against these missiles - they instead cry to a point that the new tech is nerfed to a pointless state of dead weight on your aircraft !! And these same people are the ones crying for new tech 🤨 ffs . And the fact that warthunder listens …….. sigh .we lose chat - report system ! Skill less players controlling the direction of the game . Think I need a break . Plus sick of not being able to communicate with other players in game ! I don’t understand why wargaming still has chat enabled yet warthunder doesn’t ! I’d of thought that wargaming would of been the ones that was all about propaganda for a Russian victory but no it’s gaijin crazy mind blown
As much as I love the F-4 and SARH's, I'll admit theyre a fucking joke nowadays at top tier. J-7E really is busted, and just another page jn the WT air powercreep with those PL-5B's
Chaff barely works against pulse Doppler. Flight performance isn’t nearly as good close in as the f5e. I’d say it’s competitive, but far from the best.
Chaff doesn’t work against pulse doppler at all, notching does. The J7 does literally everything better than the F5 flight performance wise so i’m not sure what you’re smoking
12:27 false, (Im the contro, comment about Altitude) in any game especially in PvP high ground wins always, also in War thunder, if ur on top u decide still how the tide flows, ur more safe, as u mention at 4:27 u can die in a eyeblink u have to care less if ur higher and also u have more vision and also more information about the field
High ground holds no impact at top tier when all of the jets can climb from the deck to 8000m while ms gaining mach .9-1 in just 30 seconds. This is before we throw missiles into the mix. Furthermore, the spotting system favors those with the low ground. Jets are all about speed, not altitude. I can personally demonstrate this to you in a custom if you’d like. If the higher target truly can dictate the fight, i suppose you’d have no issue taking me on with an altitude advantage eh?
I’d personally sooner take the J7 over the MLD. The J7 is the only plane I’d say can consistently give the MLD a real fight, and I prefer the 4 PL5s over the MLDs kit
@@SeekerHead fair enough I suppose. Imho, MLD still has no equal. Ja37c has gotten close. The buff was very nice, and now its within reason to hit mach 1.22 on the deck. I personally haven't played the J7, but I have fought it quite a bit in private lobby with friends. Definitely a beast.
Serous question here do you think to yourself will this comment make me look like an even bigger moron then I was before if not you should do some serious soul searching
Did you just call yourself out as being bad? Jets have guns so you can get kills with them. If you never get gun kills you're doing something majorly wrong. Anyone can press 2 buttons to launch a missile.
The controller icon stays on my name despite me switching to pc. I played WT on console a year ago and around that time i decided to go back "home" to pc after 8 years. So they may have a controller icon but they are more than likely on pc, unless gajin fixed the icon appearing. Either way never assume the best case scenario, always assume the worst.
I think the real benefit of all-aspects IR missiles is it's harder for the target to just shake off the missile with a simple 180° turning when the missile reached the all-aspect range. However, the target shouldn't spot the missile if possible, otherwise it will flare the missile away. Yes, you can use them for the head-on engagement sometimes, but it's not reliable enough for me to expect the target to just fly toward the missile without releasing flares, especially against BR 11.0-11.3 planes. Therefore, the only beneficiary of being an all-aspect missile at this time is R-24T since its effective range is far enough to be reliably used for a surprise attack in conjunction with the IRST. Magic II (with the current stats) has a little bit too long motor burning time in relation to its effective range to exploit the advantages of being a all-aspect IR missile, so it's basically a slightly better Magic I at this point since Magic II has wider target acquisition envelop. AIM-9L faces the same problem, plus it currently has weird flight characteristics in the terminal phase that make it misses a lot of shots which it shouldn't. R-60M/MK have way too loooooooonnnggg motor burning time for their short range, yet still better than R-60 since they have significantly wider target acquisition envelope.
That “sneak in time frame” where you look away for just a second gets me every game. If you are lucky enough to use a jet with what I call excess flairs you should really think about using the auto countermeasures mechanic
Regarding the altitude bit, yes, if the enemy decides to lemming train and shoot all of their missiles at you cause they think "Well, one of them HAS to hit right?" then yeah, altitude doesn't matter. That's a skill issue. The way I look at it when I'm playing something like my F-4J is that if I have someone targeted with my radar at medium range, they effectively cannot push me. If they move to try and merge, they run the risk of eating a sparrow (yes, I know they can be dodged with proper maneuvering, but that can open them up to other weapons). Altitude, airspeed, radar, weapons systems, and countermeasures are all tools that, when used properly, result in a more advantageous position. When you were up there fighting those F-4's, would you not agree that it would be easier to kill said F-4's if they were all on the deck and you were at the same altitude? You have the definitive energy and positioning advantage to dictate the fight of they try to contest you. However, I recognize that since the countermeasures buff, the significance of altitude has diminished a bit.
I can personally show you how i can push you at any altitude and any distance to where you can do absolutely nothing about it in a phantom, and it won’t be a skill issue that’s just how the game is. Just leave your discord so i can get to you when i have time
@@SeekerHead Allow me to clarify. You can very much push closer to me and put yourself in a better place for merge, however you cannot easily put weapons on me
If by can’t easily put weapons on, you mean you just run away, then sure. But by default I think that kinda means the plane that made you run automatically has the advantage since u had to give up your 6 and all hopes of being offensive in order to avoid dying, just to die a little bit later on anyway once they inevitably catch you
Honestly J-7E is one of the only top tier jets I fear the most apart from the MLD. The flight performance & missiles are actually quite scary to go up against even if I was in something like the F-5E or MiG-21bis. Combined the fact that most J-7E players I've come across are at the very least competent players makes it even scarier bcs they rarely mess up a dogfight
Dude everytime I got teamed with china I always win lol enemy have no idea how to deal with j7e. And yeah for those players china is probably not their first top tier nation.
If you fear the MLD you should fear the MLA simple as that lol. Same aircraft but I'll just assume when you claim MLD you probs just mean MLA also. Cause their literally the same lmao.
Not when I get the j7e, eventually
@@ISO-420 Not really, MLD has way better manoeuvrability and the MLA is much easier to handle in a dogfight
@@OiOi-Jim yeah I found that out after getting mld
From a historical pov both J7e and J8b were upgraded to fight late 3rd gen to 4th gen USSR and NATO fighters like Mig29/Su27 and F14/15/16 - not because they actually can, but an act of desperate make-do due to china's extremely limited military budget during the 80s and 90s. This being said, these planes did eventually (like during the 90s) end up a notch or two over the older phantoms and migs. So in terms of WT its a bit like letting early pt76s fight king tigers for a comparison.
The Chinese air force didn't receive a fundamental increase in capability until importing Su27 assembly line close to year 2000.
True
Yeah, can't wait for chinese gen 4s they are really good, especially if we get late gen 4s the j16 is my favorite flanker
@@Jay-rb5rs I've heard that the su30mki can carry python 5s
@@thatguy7990 India uses the r73a and the aim132 ASRAAM in their su30 mki
@@ser43_OLDC python 5s are already being used in the tejas and soon they will be used with the su30's too
dont forget the astra fox3
J7e is underapreciated as a jet, doesn't get enough praise for how good the fm is, the energy retention above 1000kph (compresses a bit) gives it survivability ie dodging missiles and making 180degree turns without losing much energy, if you need to dogfight anyone just pop the airbrake to get below 900kph and the maneuverability with some bleed will allow you to turn inside everything except a draken, at lower speeds the tw keeps you alive in a sustained fight as well
True mate
Everytime I fly any other plane than the J-7E and I see ont in fights, I know something's wrong I can feel it.
And when I fly the J-7E the best I can, I end up with high rewarding games (3-6 kills)
@@desertfalcon1539 I get that feeling when I play the mld/mig23m but ok
Pakistan air force skin looks quite radiant and catchy on J7. Its fair enough to use PAF skin as it uses most advance variant of J7 called F7pg.
Yeah no doubt before recent update PL5 missiles were almost useless. I was so disappointed at first that I stopped playing J7e and resorted to only Mig21 f13 (quite similar to J7) but its r13 missile was much better. But now pl5 with 30 G's is absolutely precise and I love J7e now.
Thanks for the comprehensive review on this underrated jet. 👍
J7E gonna domminate if and likely when PL8 is added(IMHO it's a far better jet than the J-8 considering the meta).
I’m inclined to agree
I don't think they'll give the J7E PL-8s, it's more likely they'll add the J7G and give it PL-8s but at the same time it will fight early F16s.
A j8h or f i feel would be much more competitive, with pd radar and 6 missiles, aswell as improved thrust.
The way that I utilize All-aspect short range IRs is to fire them below 1.3km away from the target while going supersonic, and as close as 0.5km with the R60M at 600kph. It usually doesn’t get spotted in time, or allow them to pull enough for their flares to work.
I m a pilot in paf i fly f-7pg advance its really a good air craft
4:38
Good to know I'm not the only one that has this happening to them, flares not rendering. The next great hit in Gaijin's "What can we fuck up next?" play.
More and more flares have been not rendering lately, leading to me firing and wasting the missile I had spooled up since it wasn't even locked onto the plane like it said it was.
I'd wager that if those had rendered properly you may not have fired that PL-5.
MiG-21F-13
20min fuel: 6,408 kg
Afterburning thrust: 5,324 kgf
MiG-21bis
20min fuel: 7,532 kg
Afterburning thrust: 9,068 kgf
J-7E
20min fuel: 7,176 kg
Afterburning thrust: 7,132 kgf
From my countless deaths to this damned plane, can confirm it seems pretty good
Sorry buddy, but the true best top tier jet in warthunder isnt even a jet- its a rocket- the ME-163 obviously is the best top tier plane in the game, why else would it be rated so highly amongst it's peers when its so old???
No other plane can do what it does- which is kill its pilot so effectively no other plane stands a chance at beating it in such matters.
R13 can go very far at high altitude. I got a kill from 6+km with it. Pl5 probably can too.
PL5 is R13 big brother, everything about it is an upgrade except flare resistance, if that even matters to you
It's nice to see this machine getting the recognition it deserves
I started using 2 Aspides on J8 instead of just pl-5’s, i get same results personally so i enjoy the difference. Trying to ace it like i have J7. Sometimes i whiff the gun super hard too.
But idk what people are saying, but MLA, 104, kfir, 21bis; easy to get to mach 1.4+ at altitude on normal maps
But yah hard to argue R24T is not best IR 😬
R24t and magic2's are definitly better then that speedy aim9j
The b in pl5b stands for based
SARH is still a nice surprise I love to send to ennemies in head on (>5km head ons). Works 99% of the time in my F4-E, just love it.
You can get your radar to lock on?
@@prodigy-hu6dy I can literally all the time, maybe it's in my head but ACM really helps.
The j7e is definitely my favorite jet. Even before the pl5 upgrade, this jet just has the best dynamics and once you get accustomed to the cannon, it can be pretty effective too.
1990’s jet does well against 3rd gens, very surprised.
Why should the production date matter?
As far as capabilities go, it's fairly balanced compared to other to tier jets..
Also, while it is true it was produced in the 90's, it's a budget jet based on a late 50's design, not exactly a 4+ generation aircraft.
Crazy ain't it. The literal second the U.S or Russia gets their jets from the same era it's over.
@@jbeverley67 for whom ?
What the Hell are you on?
@L duh
Well i can confirm when i take off in my j7 or j8 i throw these missiles at the enemy asap and then i return to rearm while spamming flares. I normally get 3+ kills on average with this
I have it now! Thx very much for the video !
I love your videos. New subscriber ♥
this plane is ridiculously good, the flight model is completely broken it flies like a mach2 f16 while most real life mig 21s and j7s cant dogfight because of massive stablility issues war thunder does not give a shit. it bothers me that no nato country really has anything to combat these planes that overperform not only to their real counterparts but planes they were historically way worse than
You are the best war thunder content creator, I love ur videos man keep it up!
Just got the J7E because of this video, first day with it and I am not disappointed.
I just grinded for the Mig 23 MLA. Was this a waste?
MLA is a good plane
It's good just find it's big and heavy. Holds energy well so susceptible to overshooting! Don't think Germany has many jets coming in 4th gen? Euro fighter typhoon and tornado being only ones I can think of
@@SeekerHead its the best (along with the mld ofcourse)
I actually use the R13M1 with the R24s in the MLD. R13M1 is like a budget PL5B
Maybe it’s just me but I get more kills with r3s I think I’ve only got 9 kills throughout all my playtime with r13m1s can’t wait to unlock the all aspect r60s and the r23t/r
@@funynonsence remember that you are shooting players that are new to jets and missiles so maybe that it why you have more luck with the worse missiles.
@@orbitalpotato9940 maybe but I doubt people are new to missiles at 11.0 I’m flying the mig23m grinding out the mld and like I said I’ve had more success with the r3s
@@funynonsence Theb that's a you problem because R13Ms are better in every single way
@@orbitalpotato9940 I mean if on paper sure but not from my experience no need to get so pissy just trying to figure out why r13m1s suck ass ?
You mention missiles not really working, 90% of games in the F-4J I get a Sparrow kill. But as you pointed out flairs and chaff work a bit too well and most players don't seem to carry chaff, and an F-4J flying so low I am scrapping my gun pod along the ground people don't seem to notice me.
With the latest update I did notice that the F-4J's radar doesn't seem to want to lock on to MiG23, 27 and J7's & 8's but will gladly go for MiG 21's F-4's JA-37's and most of all Mirage F1C's, don't know why, just an observation
My fetish has been answered. Excellent video Seeker !
Dont know if you have alredy, but you should do a vid on the F-8E its missels def arent the best, but it can dog fight anything even at 11.3, I'm a top tier console player and I've killer kafirs and j7 and the j8 with little issue, it's only problem is if its facing more than two at a time then it starts getting a bit overwhelmed but a decent amount of flares
I heavily disagree that all aspect IR missiles aren’t that useful. They’re honestly way stronger because you have way more opportunities to fire
What is the point of all aspect? To shoot at people from the front.
What happens when you shoot at people from the front? Flared, easier than any other shot.
When will an all aspect shot actually hit? When your target isn’t paying attention (shocker, just like every other missile). The odds of the target not seeing a frontal launch is very slim, and is a chronic case of L2P
All that being said, the PL5 has superior attributes to all aspects except for the fact it isn’t all aspect, which i’m more than willing to trade off
@@SeekerHead Alright look, you can be an asshole and talk condescendingly. If that’s the kind of person you are, I’m out of here 👋
Agreed, the side aspect shots are so much easier.
@@SeekerHead In the case of the R24T it means you can fire off the missile at 10km in a side aspect shot and then have a guaranteed hit when the missile enters the 4km all-aspect range. If it were simply rear aspect then the missile would likely lose lock while traveling to the target or wouldn't lock at all.
You’re missing the entire point of my comment. I’m not denying that all aspect missiles are, in fact, all aspect. No shit, i’m saying that the usefulness of all aspect is very much up for debate. Against a good player, it doesn’t matter how close your 24T is fired, “4km guaranteed hit” my ass. It’s very easily flarable and somebody that isn’t a moron is going to flare it. And if you’re firing them at 10km, you’re probably not going to hit them anyway simply due to them accidentally kinetically evading it, that’s really far away especially on the deck. Then of course they have the additional option of flaring it as well. All that being said, Id rather have a missile with No G overload on launch, 6 extra Gs of pull, and in the case of all missiles except the 24T, a wider FOV to lead with and superior range/motor burn time ratio
The pl5b should only pull 20g... its the pl5c that pulls 30g
5b can also
12:20 the engines are more effecient at that alt, so that's why engagements irl often start at high alt, but to avoid the first batch of amramms or alike, you have to dive by notching anyways, otherwise you are dead.
So just shows, that indeed the radar is very weak in game and the maps are still to small.
Or, it’s because it’s war thunder and none of that real life nonsense applies to the video game in any capacity
@@SeekerHead real life is per definiton not nonsense.
Also like you mentioned DCS:
Why is WT not closer to it?
Especially bigger map size for sim and asynchronous fights would help a lot.
because war thunder and dcs are nothing alike and if it tried to be the game would fail miserably. Not everybody wants to play pretend fighter pilot. War thunder is far more accessible and keeps a video game feel while balancing realism. Coming from someone who has both, I prefer WT 10 times out of 10. DCS community is not only immensely cringe, but it just takes too much time and effort to play, it's not a game for an average gamer.
I called the "real life" stuff nonsense because it is nonsense. This is a video game, not real life. It will never try to be like real life and it shouldn't
@@SeekerHead But why is there simulator battles and why were realistic battles called histrorical battles?
And they still market the battles as:
"In War Thunder, aircraft, attack helicopters, ground forces and naval vessels collaborate in realistic competitive battles"
So is it realistic to start the combat on 2 km² maps?
To have a helipad 4 km out?
I know, it is a game and always will be.
Especially the economics are out of thin air, but they don't market a realistic economy, with would also be bad, but that's another point.
I understand that there has to be compromises, but especially something that calls itself "simulator battles" and has the goal of being a realistic competitive battle, many simple things don't match up.
I understand the fireing via the mous, but being able to engage the enemy 10 secounds after liftoff in helis, is in my opinion to much.
That we don't have a 2 h flight per direction is understandable and I think that would be to far, but 10 secounds is way to short.
Similar with only having short range AA and then putting them very close to the battle, where both sides are attaking.
That makes no strategical sence.
If 1 would defend, and the other attak, then yeah, give the defending party closer spawns etc and therefore the enemy more people.
Then you would also solve the mm-problem in sb, since there are often more people for one side, than the other.
Yes, it has limits, but imo they could push that further, witch also would solve problems.
Yes it takes way more effort to get startet, but also investing stuff, getting to know stuff better and therefore having also an advantage, like using MEC in Props, especially when having damage.
I don't expect every button in wt sb to work, like the oxygen valves, or needing 20 inputs to start the engine, and also the fm not being perfect.
But there is reason AB, RB and SB exists.
If you want a WoT/WoWP etc experience with a bit more realism, then go to AB.
If you want even more realistic, especially for the vehicle dynamic, and want more effort in spotting enemies (a skill) then take rb.
If you hate the spotting system in air RB, don't like the advantages from 3rd person etc, and want the most realistic mmo possible, then SB.
But SB is mostly just a more fixed lineup, no 3rd person, no friendly markers, no mouse aim for aircraft and thankfully the EC maps, witch work good for props.
But no different strategies and except the heavier emphasis on AI targets in air SB (except the Carriers, witch give you nothing on destruction), the missions have the identical profile.
This never changes, and would aid the aircraft types, that aren't build for ATA or CAS.
Mostly the bombers, but like with the PVE with helis it could help everyone.
Yes, it shouldn't be purely PVE, but since to little people want to drive a tank for 20 km as their main task, it has to have a PVE-part.
Then you could bring player controlled AA in there, so you have heilis vs aa just singled out, instead of in a unrealistical close version in ground rb/sb.
Also you would need to protect the tanks, witch should give you your main income, unlike the system now, where it is best, to go kinda egoistic in the best position and not constantly bait for example.
It is not 1 baiting and 1 killing gives similar points, but both are needed (if same energy state etc) in that effecient setup.
So even in a squad it is not good for 1 player to purely bait, witch is a very good thing to get the other 2 or 3 9 kills or so.
Similar as an AA you stay outside the danger zone, witch sometimes is even the spawn, so you don't get killed by tanks, and get into the best position to get the helis or alike. You don't follow the tanks, so that when they can be attakt, also you can attak the one heli attaking.
No, it is better, even if losing because of this, to stay way back, to wait until the helis overpush, or to drive aa's like 1 R3-variant as a light tank and ignore shooting planes, even if the plane would kill half of your team, it is better, to get some ground kills, a cap, then shot 1 plane down, witch would instaloose you.
This aspect is almost completely missing
Nice Kill and video !
its insanely powerful. i'd put it at #2 of the top 5: MLD/MLA, J-7E, F-4EJ Kai, F-4E, F-5E or MiG 23M/MF(yes i know its controversial but i have really been enjoying it recently)
There’s no way that a *single* Phantom is on that list without the Viggen being there. Having 2 more radar missiles doesn’t mean anything when your radar is dogshit (F-4E) or you have absolutely no turning ability (any other Phantom). Especially when regular 25G Sparrows are as easy to fool as they are now, I’d much rather drop the -2x Sparrows in exchange for some of the best maneuverability in the game
@@collander7766 its not just air to air performance, it is also general performance of the aircraft with ground attack capabilities, flight time, gun performance, countermeasure count, etc
Oh speaking of missiles, I am displeased to say that ghost missiles have made their return >:(
Hey seeker, if you could crack the secret to avoiding radar missiles aside from chaff+turn away+descend (which doesn’t seem what your doing)
I just pop these J7's easy, the real threat are the MLD's with R24T's fired from far away without you knowing.
-social credit for killing a-7e, first its name very similar to excellent j-7e, second he just grinding agm-62 for killing tanks so more people will start playing planes
Welcome to the cult
It’s founded now, the new cult is the viggen
@@SeekerHead hell yeah
Bro forgot lots of people at top tier are capable of dying to the dumbest things, this guy is an exception, most people will die to sparrows and other random things
i measure the effectiveness of stuff assuming the one using it is competent. Obviously there is an abundance of morons at top tier, but that's not going to change how i base the effectiveness of vehicles
@@SeekerHead that is entirely true, but the way it sounded certainly made it seem as if the bar is quite high, that's all
J-7 and F-5 in dogfights scare me much more than Mig-23
The only mig 23 that would be effective in dogfighting rn is the MLD the M/MF and MLA don’t have the required maneuverability and hold their speed way to well to turn tightly in short time
@@alexchristian5399 yes but you can force the rate fight
Just when I worked my way up in the US tree... :) time to pull out the Jian Qi again
Cool u have km/h not mp/h, so much easier to watch and understand these speeds.
I had to cave for all u non freedomers :P i've gotten pretty used to it by now :)
@@SeekerHead Knots, feet, and Fahrenheit gang, kilometers can suck my hot dogs and cheeseburgers
Probally you are American but for Europeans like me is more difficult to understand
Do you expect more Pakistani planes in warthunder?
From what i can gather the J8 should actually be able to carry 6 PL-5s instead of only 4, It would be an even better plane if it could carry 6
Possibly, though I suspect I'd still rather have the J7 for the superior flight performance, 4 missiles is still a usable amount.
The J8 has 6 pylons that can carry missiles, but the FCS computer is so bad makes a raspberry pi look like a high end machine. It can only support 4 missiles max of any type or it shorts.
@@cubicsquare6926 Yeah but i dont think the FCS matters in WT
@@DveTriEbole the plane is unable to use more than 4 missiles, hence it has 4 in game. That's based on real life, just like the limited loadouts for other planes in game.
The viggen is getting some buffs soon which is nice
Yeah it's fast as fucc now
@@thatguy7990 it should also become lighter soon which will make it turn better
glad to see J-7 praise in the recommended
makes a china main cry tears of joy
the J7 isn't Chinese. China is a failure country and the J7 is pakistani
lol ok i was just popping by to say that the vid was good bro the anti china sentiment is unnecessary
@@SeekerHead Cope harder american
@@theendo4444 No it’s very necessary, the CCP is evil and the J7 is pakistan
@@SeekerHead you're misspelling north india
I think either the MLD or fgr2 are the best as they can both be pushed into any role as there versatility makes them fun and reliable. Even though the phantom is heavy the fgr2 carrys rolls Royse speys which allows you to energy fight really well
I have played the MLA & the only jet that a problem is this Jet with its Pl5 & it ignores flares
I have this skin, but literally nothing in Chinese tech tree
Gamer
I think this jet is a top 5 jet
It’s my #1
Based first death of the vid
Nice job vectoring to break the radar lock, f4j's radar is the worst pd in the game.
hey, can i ask, how do you use guns in top tier, i never get kills rlly i do bombing then try and use missiles but i donw know how to rlly use guns in top tier and actually hit, any tips?
Don't zoom except in headons.
Just practice doing it, can’t really teach sim you just develop it. Ceasing to bomb in top tier will help you improve faster
Please make a video about which jets should get the AIM-9L
all of them
@@SeekerHead Based
You gotta make an F5E video now
Looks like I’m going to be grinding China next.
grinding entire trees for a top tier isn’t necessarily a good reason, the top tier meta changes too frequently, the best now might be the worst a month from now
Export J-7 have 2 gun like j-7ii ingame so gaijin when
In my opinion the R24T is the best missle in the game
It’s a good choice
R24r is better
the range of the pl5 is extreme mica ir be like........ 50 km range yes ts irl but still
I made this skin but I don't have this aircraft😅
Seeker…Magic 1’s or PL-5B’s go👀🙏🏾
PL5. I'd even take the PL5 over Magic 2s R60Ms 9Ls etc. It's simply the most meta way to get AAM kills imo
@@SeekerHead good man I’ve been getting 2 to 4 kills average with J8B using its insane pull in merges catching silly phantom kiddos while there still in mid circle with glorious PL5B’s lol it gives a sweet satisfaction to be able to pull and lead as much as I need to complemented with the excellent pull of the PL5’s to give that SRAMM killing potential in tight dogfights
How is the PL-5B recently?
best missile
@@SeekerHead so the recent changes aren't significant or negative then
haven’t heard of a recent change?
@@SeekerHead I heard it got a thrust nerf and a max G overload buff, but after looking at the change logs it looks like this vid came out after the server update where it was implemented - April 5. I've stopped playing with PD equipped top tier jets recently. F-5E is the only jet I have that is fun to fly at that BR and I'm considering the Chinese tree.
14:24 how’d that miss? Lol
Lmao
He flared it. You can’t see the flares as the missile misses but once I look back at it you can see 2 drops of flares floating in the air
Magic accels faster irl and ingame
J8b is now a lot better
I strongly disagree
Someone forgot the MiG-21LanceR and the MiG-21Bison, but okay.
What
@@borderinginsane1783 The LanceR and Bison are definitely much more dominant than this, I was just replying to his caption :)
@@AT-bo6ww they aren’t in game though
@@grikkajunior Like I said, I was replying to the video description, where he said the J-7E was the most dominant MiG-21 variant ever....
@@AT-bo6ww j7e irl carries pl9/pl8 and then there's the j7g with pl8/pl9 and pl11 I don't believe the lancer has fox 1 capabilities and upgraded pl11 said to have active seeker idk for sure that would give it fox 3 capabilities as well
Yeah the phantom 2f need to buff? Top bad missile in top tier….
Def best plane in the game. Still think that the magic 2 is better the the pl5 but the mirage f1 is shit
I find this one of the saddest things in warthunder, we get new tech ,sparrows and all other radar missiles ! And instead of adapting and learning a new way to play , cranking and other ways to defend against these missiles - they instead cry to a point that the new tech is nerfed to a pointless state of dead weight on your aircraft !! And these same people are the ones crying for new tech 🤨 ffs . And the fact that warthunder listens …….. sigh .we lose chat - report system ! Skill less players controlling the direction of the game . Think I need a break . Plus sick of not being able to communicate with other players in game ! I don’t understand why wargaming still has chat enabled yet warthunder doesn’t ! I’d of thought that wargaming would of been the ones that was all about propaganda for a Russian victory but no it’s gaijin crazy mind blown
j35 better (please help i want countermeasures)
As much as I love the F-4 and SARH's, I'll admit theyre a fucking joke nowadays at top tier. J-7E really is busted, and just another page jn the WT air powercreep with those PL-5B's
*You crashed into a tree*
It's really too bad this is a Chinese jet, I think I'd really enjoy flying it, with how much I enjoy the NR-30...
it's pakistani
@@SeekerHead of course ;)
@@SeekerHead *west india
Luckily i have chosen to play china as my 1st country
this jet is pakistani
you’re wrong and i deleted your comment because this is in fact pakistan and china shallnt be acknowledged
@@SeekerHead lol
@@SeekerHead china?? u mean west taiwan?
and pakistan?? u mean west india?
Chaff barely works against pulse Doppler. Flight performance isn’t nearly as good close in as the f5e. I’d say it’s competitive, but far from the best.
Chaff doesn’t work against pulse doppler at all, notching does. The J7 does literally everything better than the F5 flight performance wise so i’m not sure what you’re smoking
MLD is better.
Oh really I'll get my mig23mla and u get ur j7 missles aloud and we will see who wins since it's the best jet
sure, ign?
@@SeekerHead the69vortex ill just use mti r24
use whatever u want, u on rn?
@@SeekerHead I just got on
@@SeekerHead no toxicity because I'm bad
I have played J-7E over 1000 times.i love it
12:27 false, (Im the contro, comment about Altitude)
in any game especially in PvP high ground wins always, also in War thunder, if ur on top u decide still how the tide flows, ur more safe, as u mention at 4:27 u can die in a eyeblink u have to care less if ur higher and also u have more vision and also more information about the field
High ground holds no impact at top tier when all of the jets can climb from the deck to 8000m while ms gaining mach .9-1 in just 30 seconds. This is before we throw missiles into the mix. Furthermore, the spotting system favors those with the low ground. Jets are all about speed, not altitude. I can personally demonstrate this to you in a custom if you’d like. If the higher target truly can dictate the fight, i suppose you’d have no issue taking me on with an altitude advantage eh?
hey thats my country
you designed and produced a very nice plane!
@@SeekerHead haha no . iam from pakistan
yes of course, the J7s country
@@NANOG-P8 homie we gettin more Pakistani planes in this game
Lol seeker head u have no idea
Hope someday Japan sink into Pacific ocean fish people go underwater, no longer land menace
MLD????????
You think this or clickbating bc of YT shit algorithm?
I’d personally sooner take the J7 over the MLD. The J7 is the only plane I’d say can consistently give the MLD a real fight, and I prefer the 4 PL5s over the MLDs kit
@@SeekerHead fair enough I suppose. Imho, MLD still has no equal. Ja37c has gotten close. The buff was very nice, and now its within reason to hit mach 1.22 on the deck. I personally haven't played the J7, but I have fought it quite a bit in private lobby with friends. Definitely a beast.
so ur a noob? literally all kills i get are missile kills, man this guys living before aam where addeed lmfao
It’s almost like all the kills in this video are missile kills and I never said missile kills never happen 🤔🤔
Serous question here do you think to yourself will this comment make me look like an even bigger moron then I was before if not you should do some serious soul searching
@@SeekerHead just check out his videos. All of his jets are squadron which is just a OMEGALUL moment right there
@@asiftalpur3758 when he’s referring to his “missile kills” he’s talking about the single time his AIM-9B hit an ai F-86 in Air RB lol
Did you just call yourself out as being bad? Jets have guns so you can get kills with them. If you never get gun kills you're doing something majorly wrong. Anyone can press 2 buttons to launch a missile.
I play mnk on my ps4 (warthunder is supported I don’t have one of those dumb adapters for cheating) so watch out
The controller icon stays on my name despite me switching to pc. I played WT on console a year ago and around that time i decided to go back "home" to pc after 8 years. So they may have a controller icon but they are more than likely on pc, unless gajin fixed the icon appearing. Either way never assume the best case scenario, always assume the worst.
I think the real benefit of all-aspects IR missiles is it's harder for the target to just shake off the missile with a simple 180° turning when the missile reached the all-aspect range.
However, the target shouldn't spot the missile if possible, otherwise it will flare the missile away.
Yes, you can use them for the head-on engagement sometimes, but it's not reliable enough for me to expect the target to just fly toward the missile without releasing flares, especially against BR 11.0-11.3 planes.
Therefore, the only beneficiary of being an all-aspect missile at this time is R-24T since its effective range is far enough to be reliably used for a surprise attack in conjunction with the IRST.
Magic II (with the current stats) has a little bit too long motor burning time in relation to its effective range to exploit the advantages of being a all-aspect IR missile, so it's basically a slightly better Magic I at this point since Magic II has wider target acquisition envelop.
AIM-9L faces the same problem, plus it currently has weird flight characteristics in the terminal phase that make it misses a lot of shots which it shouldn't.
R-60M/MK have way too loooooooonnnggg motor burning time for their short range, yet still better than R-60 since they have significantly wider target acquisition envelope.
That “sneak in time frame” where you look away for just a second gets me every game. If you are lucky enough to use a jet with what I call excess flairs you should really think about using the auto countermeasures mechanic
Regarding the altitude bit, yes, if the enemy decides to lemming train and shoot all of their missiles at you cause they think "Well, one of them HAS to hit right?" then yeah, altitude doesn't matter. That's a skill issue. The way I look at it when I'm playing something like my F-4J is that if I have someone targeted with my radar at medium range, they effectively cannot push me. If they move to try and merge, they run the risk of eating a sparrow (yes, I know they can be dodged with proper maneuvering, but that can open them up to other weapons). Altitude, airspeed, radar, weapons systems, and countermeasures are all tools that, when used properly, result in a more advantageous position. When you were up there fighting those F-4's, would you not agree that it would be easier to kill said F-4's if they were all on the deck and you were at the same altitude? You have the definitive energy and positioning advantage to dictate the fight of they try to contest you. However, I recognize that since the countermeasures buff, the significance of altitude has diminished a bit.
I can personally show you how i can push you at any altitude and any distance to where you can do absolutely nothing about it in a phantom, and it won’t be a skill issue that’s just how the game is. Just leave your discord so i can get to you when i have time
@@SeekerHead Allow me to clarify. You can very much push closer to me and put yourself in a better place for merge, however you cannot easily put weapons on me
If by can’t easily put weapons on, you mean you just run away, then sure. But by default I think that kinda means the plane that made you run automatically has the advantage since u had to give up your 6 and all hopes of being offensive in order to avoid dying, just to die a little bit later on anyway once they inevitably catch you