As someone who actually worked in motorsport for ten years I can a) confirm that this works fine as long as the surface is flat and b) even some race heads are prepped this way if being reused after a rebuild, done on an actual surface table and with some skill this will actually yield a flatter surface than many machining processes
I did the heads and block for a Subaru flat 6 with this method, and the results were below (less than) 0.05mm in surface distortion. I learned it from a Yamaha jet-ski service manual. Definitely works - and works well.
Agreed, even the best bearings in the world in a well used machine will not be as true as this method if done correct, this way there is no tolerances to worry about
I have a headstone I bought for $20 from a memorial company that someone ordered but never picked up. Me and William Martin (name on the stone) have surfaced a lot of stuff. It works really great on the top of diesel engine blocks the weight giving it just enough pressure.
Far from stupid. 👍👍I overheated and warped the head on an engine driving cross continent. Being in the middle of the prairies with camping gear, basic tools and little cash, I used a big file to file out the warpage. The old gasket didn’t sustain any damage so I torqued every thing back down. Drove out the next day. That engine repair lasted till I sold the car. About 50,000 miles!
!!! a LONG time ago, I bought a piece of glass from my local glass guy for $18 that was 11" x 36" x 1" thick that milled more heads and blocks than you can imagine!!! Great vid!!
When I worked in a machine shop we called this technique "floating". We'd use a figure 8 motion. Obviously it would be difficult for you on a large object. Also, we had a straight edge to check it and stay on track. Its not as much about shiny surfaces as it is about flat.
It ain't rocket science, and I've been doing this kind of stuff my entire life. Great job! The engine's for an everyday drive not an indy race car. Keep on keepin' on.
@brennan Clark There have been a few technology advances in the past 60-70 years. If we're talking some chevy truck from the 70s sure. On our 2 year old Volvo SUV? Yeah no.
I use a large piece of polished granite left over from a kitchen table top and crocus. I sharpen a wood chipper blade with a belt sander (220 grit) turned upside down and clamped onto a work mate. Nothing is "stupid" when you give it your best shot!
non man, you got that wrong. nothing is stupid when it works. problem is this does not leave the proper finish to seal a head gasket for more than a short time. what you will find on modern engines is that this polished head will eat gaskets. in short, doing this will create alot of work in the future. you will be changing head gaskets again and again.
@@Emilthehun 60 grit does not cut steel nowhere as well as 80 grit does. I will never use 60 grit again only 80 when the need is to remove as much as possible.
British bikers in the 50s use to do this to their engine cases, as they always leaked oil. As the cases were alloy, they used a sheet of glass, and valve lapping compound to get the case edges perfectly flat.
so, in other words, they did this the right way, with something that wouldnt wear into a dish shape as it cuts....iron is not the surface to use, if it were you would see it being used like this in shops.
David Hutchison marine engineers as well. Use a flat steel plate or a glass plate and differend courseness of lapping paste. To flatten it finally use a lot of oil and ferry fine lapping paste.
For the amount of work that goes through replacing head gaskets, I feel more confident taking the head to a machine shop and having the heads machined . I won’t reuse head bolts either. I helped a friend that wanted to save a few bucks. He tried this process and reused the stretched head bolts, ... a few weeks later he had the same mess!!! If this works for you guys I’m truly happy!!! I just hate redoing things!!!
If I'm going through all the trouble to remove the head then I'm going to take it to a machine shop. Might as well have them check everything. Do it right the first time.
As for reusing bolts ; it’s ok if you measure the stretch and use Caterpillars chart on the proper Lenth chart and on like rod bolts it uses the bolt lenth fo correct bolt torque chart measured with mic’s
If your working on something from the late 80s early 90s then you probably should replace the head bolts, most from the 70s or earlier probably not. They used better bolts in those days
Bert Grau for the 240Z (an early 70s car) they "recommend" replacing the head bolts. Datsun was notorious for using poor quality metals all over their cars back then. That being said, however, I've reused the Z head bolts after doing visual inspections and a back out torque check ( there are charts for that) and haven't had any problems with bolt failure or head warping. Even though, if I have the time and money I DO replace head bolts.
I used to work in an engine rebuilding shop (Vulcan Automotive, Vancouver BC) and we straightened warped aluminum cylinder heads this way: 1) bolt head to a 1" thick steel plate at least 1" wider and longer than the head casting. 2) tighten to torque specs. 3) place it in a BBQ. 4) use a full 20# tank, 5) light the BBQ and put all burners on high temp. (not the rotisserie burner if fitted) 6) leave it cooking for 12-16 hours or until propane runs out. 7) allow to cool to room temp. 8) check for straightness with a straight edge and feeler gauges. Should be no more than .003" out in any direction. 9) sand smooth like you show in the video. Again, should be no more than .003" out in any direction. 10) admire your work and congratulate yourself on saving a "ruined" cylinder head.
When you get this down to where you want it, you should should use a lapping motion ( small figure 8 motion ) to finish it off. Everything will then end up flat . Also rub a marker or dikem blue on the surface and do one more light lapping to true check out surface.
My High School shop teacher taught us this trick 31 years ago. He also used a straight edge and feeler gauges to see how warped the head was. He was a pretty smart. This was one of our class projects we we're graded on in auto shop.
matttafakt sometimes people just like to work with the tools. The passion lies in the journey for some, not just the destination. And it’s good to know in case of a dinosaur apocalypse
It's called joe public beating the system for a change. Sometimes there are no garages close to you to do it and it feels good to be able to beat the system.
Roland Anderson But, even for $35, you might have to wait a couple of days to get your part back. This way, you can make good progress through the day and weekend. Plus, we’re all too lazy and fat, and this will burn some calories too! Lol.
It's much more expensive in Ireland I think to get a head resurfaced and valves cleaned and reseated. Also there are many garages who will do the minimum when customer not around.
I've had good results using this method for resurfacing carburetor mating surfaces and other smaller components but never anything as large as a cylinder head. But like the saw table method shown here you have nothing to loose if there is no access to a machine shop and you have to get it running.
El Rey as a machinist to proper remove the high spots in the vise and machine table using a hone stone in a figure 8 motion prevents wear in the same area. I myself was thinking the same thing as he started the video he’s going to wear “grooves” in it in the same direction instead of a circular pattern from the back and forth motion
@@davidnelson2804 it's also a good practice to rotate the stone or part 90 or 180° frequently to help keep the part flat due to unevenly applied pressure.
I did pretty much the same thing in my "hillbilly machine shop" on the heads for a Nissan 3.3 V6. However I used thick plate glass for doing the "final" sanding with 240 grit emery cloth glued to the glass. For the initial "roughing", I made a large wooden block from a laminated beam, and I laminated the surface with formica and checked with a straight edge before gluing the 80 grit emery cloth. It was much easier since the block is lighter than the head, plus I could see the progress. I switched to 150 grit on the block for a "cleanup" before finishing up on the plate glass with 240 grit. Be aware that since aluminum will gall very easily, you must keep sweeping the sand paper off to prevent that. One tiny little chunk of aluminum will "roll" and cause a gouge, and thus, more work. The intake manifold, and plenum got the same treatment since they were a bit warped too. End to end (longitudinal) flatness, though important, isn't as critical as being flat across between the cylinders. The head will flex end to end when you torque it down, but there are no bolts in the center so flatness across needs to be very flat by at least 1/16" the thickness of the gasket. And yes, always use new head bolts when called for because of not only stretch, but tortional strength as well.
I've done this to three cars so far using 100 grit sandpaper on a piece of glass. And yes it works great. Haven't had a problem with yet with it. Saw it on another UA-cam video a while back. It's saved me $35 per cylinder every time I did this. I have used a mill in the past, and I can verify this procedure is almost perfect.
first time I did this was 1960. had a 49 harley davidson 45 v twin that leaked oil where the cast iron oil pump fit on to the aluminum housing. used a safety plate glass window from a 28 plymouth and valve grinding compound. worked to remove a screwdriver gouge in the aluminum(former owner). last time it was grinding 14 thousandths off the cylinder head for my 5 hp briggs engine to raise compression(I live near Denver). used a glass with 360 grit wet-dry sandpaper glued on. did it in the kitchen sink with warm water and a bit of dish soap. Your video shows how you can accomplish things well without spending large amounts of money. I hope the welds hold up good for you and don't crack/leak.
This works, I've never had an issue afterward. I've also used two 2x10 attached together with a small handle. Adhesive sandpaper on the bottom , vary the grit and sand along the length. I've done engine blocks this way too. Current one has over 60k miles on this home finishing.
@@gerhardbraatz6305 as a machinist, i'm talking about the type of flat that you can't see. maybe with older engines this will do. but anything with high compression and you will at the least want to use a verified flat surface. and at maximum use a granite plate, as it won't warp with different temperatures, where the steel table will.
i have lapped in many motorcycle heads and engine cases using your method. I have done this to minimize the amount of metal to take off as planing in a mill seems to remove a lot more metal. The life of a racing head can be extended that way where it might be history after several milling operations. Lap those valves in and you will be ready to go.
You should actually have the head facing you diagonally like this / and push back and forth, then switch it 180 and do it the opposite way to achieve a cross hatching or x pattern on the head surface like your bore surface
If you can’t do the figure 8, do it like your block sanding a body panel. - | / \ Do it in those 4 directions, back and forth and both diagonals. and count your strokes and it’ll be pretty decent.
This was a great video. I did this with my Volvo 8v "Redblock" head. Took about 8 hours to get it completely flat. Next time I will probably just spend the $150 and take it to a machine shop, but I was very broke at the time, and this worked great for me. Instead of a table saw I used a roughly 12"x 36" piece of scrap marble from a countertop that was removed from a house demo in the neighborhood. Alternatively you can use a thick pane of glass.
My dad cleaned up a journal on my cars crank-shaft using a good connecting rod (the old one was shaped like an egg) and a couple of new bearings. What he did was put valve grinding compound in the new inserts in the connecting rod and we turned it around the crank. We started with 40 turns and coarse grit compound and took off 10 thousands immediately. We cleaned the journal and swapped to fine grit compound and after 90 or so turns the journal was round and true. Then we purchased 20 thousands oversized bearing. Checked it with plasti-gage and it was perfect. I drove the car another 10k miles before I had to sell it (military family moved over-seas). I was shocked at how well it worked. If you take your time I am sure this method of leveling a head would work too. Nice work.
Bruce Williams I've been a mechanic for over 25 years and never heard of anyone doing this. Beats the old wives' tale of a trucker using a section of his leather belt as a connecting rod bearing insert to temporarily fix a rod knock while on the road. Hats' off to your old man.
Hi @@cruzinezy1968 , Like I said, I was really skeptical but then I shouldn't have been. Before my father went back into the army, he was a master machinist for Pratt & Whitney. He would have no problem lapping things in to +/- 0.0005 of an inch (0.015 mm). The amount of measurements we took of that damned journal were ridiculous. But it worked well. The sad part was that he was so cheap and I was so broke, that we didn't buy a gasket kit for the timing chain housing and the thing leaked incessantly. It was a great life experience.
@@cruzinezy1968 Well I guess a mechanic of 25 years just learned something. Can't figure out why you wouldn't think it is possible. I watched my old man do something like it on an old John Deere 2 Cyl. tractor back in the mid 1960's. No rod inserts in those rods. Another old guy had rebabbitted the rod and he was getting the rod to fit the crank. NOT AN OLD WIVES TALE EITHER SMARTYPANTS. Tractor ran for many years after and was sold when he retired about 1975. Still running great too!
Just in case anyone is going to do this there are a couple of things you need to know. First, do not tighten the journal or rod cap too tight; the grinding compound removes a great deal of material very quickly. Second, Inspect often. Again, it didn't take that long to remove a great deal of material with the coarse grinding compound. Third, Make sure that your rod journal is true prior. When we did this, we had to get a new connecting rod as the old one was too out of tolerance. Fourth, use a new bearing liner when going from the coarse to the fine. And lastly, we bolted the whole crank-shaft to a table to make it easier to work on. My dad said it could be done in the car or machine if you had to but was a PITA. PS- make sure you get rid of all the grinding compound after and check with plastigage for clearance. Best of luck to anyone who needs to do this.
I use a large steralite plastic tub & water based solvent from harbor freight. Soak the head overnight, scrub anything that didn't just dissolve, hose off & use the air gun blower thingy to dry it. A lot of people use kerosene & I've seen a few use mineral spirits (it works wicked fast... but scares me more lol) hope you are having fun with the project. Thanks for the video
To anyone here that claims this does not work......look up "hand scaping". You can get a metal surface flat to within .00005 (yes, 4 zeros!) with another flat surface and some elbow grease. Millwrights use the process every day to build, and rebuild metal working machinery. As a journeyman toolmaker I can tell you this man's process is quite sound. As long as you have a flat surface and use some care it will turn out as good as any belt surfaced/milled head taken to the machine shop. A proper straight edge and feeler gages should be used to check your work.
Amateur telescope makers get even higher precision than this, making mirrors, using just glass-on-glass (or -tile) with abrasives and water, and a lot of patience and elbow grease. Sure, they can buy commercially-made mirrors and things, but the fun is in the process, and knowing you CAN do it yourself.
dogshouse1 Lol Had to laugh at the naysayers. Wasn’t some of the training for millwrights to learn to us a file.? AND elbow grease. People that have never done this kind of work have no idea.
Mate ! You've gota give it a go , and that looks great , a wee bit of elbow grease saved alot of money and energy eg : droppin head off , talking , pikn head up and paying half a days wages ! When you're at home , comfy in your workshop , fridge aint far you're familiar with where everything is, awsome work.
You can get more predictable results if the sandpaper is a wet-or-dry variety (can’t tell from the packages in your video) and you lubricate the surface of the sandpaper using a spray bottle of water mixed with a few drops of dish detergent. The water/detergent mix makes it easier to get the metal filings off the sandpaper and makes it easier and quicker to get the results you want. The same technique can be used to sharpen knives and chisels using a glass plate to hold the sandpaper. I use a piece of marble tile - the water makes the sandpaper stay in place, so no spray glue is required.
The tiny holes in the head gasket is for air to escape, coolant doesn't need to flow that way. Spray the head with purple power degreaser and rinse with hot water, blow dry with air compressor.... Being a professional technician my first reaction was "WHAT THE HELL IS THIS GUY DOING" but after I watched the video I have to hand it to you. You did a nice job man.
+MrRetahreggin I have retired from the world of fighting the clock each day as an ASE Master Tech, working on everything from bumper to bumper. I do miss a little, but not the shop politics or favoritism, but I have a question. What is the "Purple powder degreaser" you spoke of? Like most shops, we had various types of products, some were ZEP brand, but I have a 4L60 trans to clean up at home, without a shop solvent tank. I was just prepared to use a bucket of elbow of bucket grease, mineral spirits and the like. I would appreciate it if you can share if it works good on aluminum casting. Thanks. P.S. Perhaps this guy could use a homemade adaptor for use with a reciprocating saw to speed up his....aaH, flattening process. Very interesting, but I have seen heads and flywheels dressed with a Bridgeport Mill many times. You can't do this on a flywheel, Right?
@Caleb Perkins Yes, I know that feeling of "What the Hell". I left a dealership and moved to a different state in 1982 for the family and better pay. (Flat Rate for customers $24 / Techs paid $6.90) I found a new job at well equipped shop, not a dealer. They had a need for an import tech and had a new 4 gas engine analyzer (Bear Ace), but also a hot tank. New to me, but a guy serviced it once a month with bottom cleaning and sodium hydroxide. I work on everything and while doing a valve job on a V8 Pontiac, I placed the rocker arm on a full length pivot tube into the tank while on a wire. Pulled them out 2 or 3 hours later and they melted off. Whoops! I guess they where aluminum. Oh the lesson we learn!
Purple power is a non corrosive degreaser and I use it frequently on aluminum. I wouldn't suggest leaving it on long before rinsing it off. You can purchase it cheap at any hardware store or auto parts store. This is only a degreaser and usually requires a solvent of some kind to completely remove. I only suggested it to this man because he was on the cheap and this would work fine for what he was trying to accomplish. At our shop we buy a drum of a/c flush and use spray guns. I dont remember the brand but its 800 dollars a drum :(... good stuff though.
@@deankay4434 - Cleaning Transmission Parts was the real reason God invented the Kitchen Dishwasher. Worst case scenario you get a new one for your wife, and move the "old" one to the garage. Use lots of dishwasher soap, lots or REAL TSP, and really hot hot water. You'll love how the kitchen will smell, too - just like the shop you just retired from I bet, with a hint of lemony freshness. She will be so happy you won't believe it. (Pure TSP Tri-Sodium Phosphate can be ordered on Amazon for about $12 for a 5 pound box, and it works better that any "Green", "Purple" or other cleaners. Don't let it drip on the kitchen floor or you might end up buying a new one of those, too. I use a tea to tablespoon of it in my dishwasher for regular dishes, too. It is the Nuclear Option for dirty dishes and keeps the machine sparkling fresh) I have two dodge 5.9 liter/360 cid heads that I am hoping will fit in my dishwasher, after I surface them like Dennis did in this video)
My buddy has a head shop so I get it done for about the cost of that glue and sandpaper. It's about the same principle. His head surfacer looks like a grocery store check out. Instead of a conveyor belt it has a big sandpaper belt. You just set the head on it and turn the belt on. There's a stop at the end to keep the head from flying off. Then you let gravity do it's thing. Pretty neat operation. I always thought there was special milling machines but old school works.
Nice job Dennis. It should work fine. One thing most people do not know is that gaskets are actually a moving part. Every heat cycle that an engine goes through they expand and contact. You explained every step-by-step. No need to go to the gym afterwards:) Keep up the good work and thank you for sharing!!!
I never really gave it much thought until just tonight when watching this video. I have a table saw in my basement and I'm going to try it, I have cast Iron and aluminum heads and the cost is minimal, I can run over to The Home Depot and pick up the sandpaper and I already have the 3M spray adhesive. I just subbed, liked, and clicked on the bell. Thank's for sharing this idea. I'm 69 years old, retired and worked as a mechanic/technician over 45 years and never thought of trying that. Thank's again, really enjoy your video. BTW, I worked at a machine shop 5 years, some things we just don't think about without getting a 2X4 upside the head, lol.
Pretty cool! You can also use a large flat file and 'draw' file end to end first to speed things up a bit but still a good job. If your valves don't seal well, you can use a hand drill and valve grinding compound to do a home grown valve job. Good luck!
Nice job; strange that the head needed welding the coolant holes. Strange what happens in the real world. Your instincts are pretty good. Looks like a grafoil gasket; not very durable but not very fussy about flatness. If I did fly cut the head deck as a home amateur,I would lap it like this as a check for flatness and waviness anyway. I am a retired cylinder head engineer. You should get some more use out of that engine for your trouble.
He had to weld due to corrosion which is due to not changing the antifreeze. You see this a lot where people don't maintain their vehicles. Have seen this as well in stationary generators that are neglected or in areas of high mineral content in the local water. I highly suggest using premix antifreeze which uses de-ionized water.
Been using this trick on a smaller scale (air cooled engines) for 20 years and it works great, especially out in the field where you have limited resources. In my case the engine has been run a while with a leaking head gasket so there's always a low spot. My rig is a block of steel plate with some 80 grit that's self stick. (body shop sander style) Work the head in small circles, turn it 90 degrees, a few more strokes, turn it 90 degrees, etc. Keeps things even all the way around. By the time I get 360 degrees it's usually good.
One thing you need to determine BEFORE you sand or mill the head is whether it is warped by putting a STRAIGHT ground bar on the cam bearing surfaces and use a 1-2 thousandths feeler gauge to make sure the heads aren't warped. If they are, and you flatten the deck, or they will probably warp FURTHER and you will probably start taking out cam bearings prematurely, or possibly even break a cam, which will destroy most engines (valves and pistons aren't compatible in the same space). The warped head can be straightened in a hot oven (~500 F) for several hours, bolted to a flat plate with some appropriate thickness shims bend them a bit past so they spring back. Allow them to cool slowly inside the oven after turning off the heating element. Only AFTER the cam saddles are straight should you deck the head. You should also do the longitudinal, latitudinal, and x pattern checks with a feeler gauge afterward to make sure the head surface is flat. Just Sayin'.
Appreciate the details on the weld, over-dremel-but-OK, flat surface, razor & feel, adhesive, grit, warning on curving (only push horizontal), clean paper periodically. I'd use finer grit at the end. Also, don't use solvent - it embeds grit, use light oil and clean rag, turned after each swipe. Thanks for showing another practical way to avoid needless machine time/cost.
Correct way to make a flat surface is to just use 3 slabs of aluminium (or steel if you have more patience and want a longer lasting result), put grinding compound between A and B, grind them against each other for a bit, then grind B and C against each other, then grind A and C against each other, then repeat many many times through this cycle. Then you get PERFECTLY flat surfaces to grind heads, cylinders, pistons, angle irons, jewels, gold, brass, whatever, against.
This method does work and can work well "if" you know what you are doing. First off for aluminum heads I use 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper and WD40. Second, you need to use a straight edge and feeler gauges to check progress along the way, It is completely possible to sand the head and have it become .002-.003" cupped between the combustion chambers.
Problem you can run into is if you have a high spot it will flatten unevenly and could cause your head to have a taper or twist. So be sure to keep an eye on it as you get started to make sure your getting an even pattern
I've done similar. Never used tablesaw. But then I don't have one. It works perfectly fine. One piece of advice. It is much faster and don't even need the sand paper if you use a large flat file. Go over the surface using crisscross motions in all directions. Keep shavings cleaned off. Sure machine shops do it cheap. But you can have engine running before you get your head returned usually. Never had a fail
just did it on a 1/2 inch plate of glass and used stair skid sticky paper that works just like sandpaper and can be wet sanded too..it also comes in a role and you can stick down one full piece. it worked great.
You should have first used a certified straight edge to verify the flatness of the table saw top. If you sit the straight edge on top of the table saw then you can use feeler gauges at different points to verify how warped the top is and where the warpage is located. Example: If the feeler gauge slides under the straight edge in the middle, then the table saw top is sagging. If the feeler gauge won't slide under the straight edge at the center, but it will at the outer edges, then the table saw top is arched. The largest feeler gauge you can slide under the straight edge (without lifting it) is the amount of warpage in the table saw top. You should check the flatness first unloaded (nothing on the table saw), then again loaded (with the head on the table saw). The reason? The table saw could be perfectly flat unloaded, but could show significant sagging or warpage when loaded. When you check... measure front to back, side to side, and diagonal to diagonal. If the warpage it's less than a few thousandth of an inch I wouldn't worry too much, but if you have 30 or 40 thousandths (or more) then I wouldn't use the table saw top, unless you have a way of making the table saw top true... I would assume you don't or you wouldn't be using the table saw top to start with. A cheap certified straight edge can be bought at some art stores, usually for drafting purposes. They tend to be thin when compared to a machinist straight edge, but it's better than no straight edge at all. Hope this information was helpful.
And that's why all the old stuff ran forever because we had guys with patients and knowledge and a thirst for perfection. Unlike these days were nobody cares about quality because people want the newest version of everything knowing they're going to just trash the other one, it's a shame. I've watched people go through a Couple new cars in a 15 year period because they would always have some stupid problem (low quality) and in that time I've had a 76 gmc jimmy that's only needed a starter and a water pump in that time period ($55 and 2 hours of work) Keep on sharing that knowledge we need as much of it as we can get, we need quality back in our lives
Hope nobody ever hits your '76 Jimmy. You're comparing apples to oranges. Of course a ~40 year old car has fewer systems to fail, hence assuming equal reliability there will be fewer overall failures. Also it doesn't make sense to build a car that lasts 20 years anymore than it does to make a cellphone that lasts 5. Rate of technical advance has increased a lot in the past 50 years.
I was a machinist some years ago, and this would work just fine. Any small imperfections in the cutting surface really wouldn't do anything. You're not transferring that surface onto the head, just removing material evenly. Just so long as you turn the piece as you do so it would come out basically perfect. I would put this method next to grinding, which can be extremely precise.
I used liquid metal epoxy to be build the corroded areas . Drilled out the junk to bare metal then applied mixed liquid metal to build it up . Just before dry while its soft trim level with straight edge . Then I used a new 12 inch knife sharpening stone with kero as lube in figure 8 pattern onto the head surface to smooth it back . Was all good . Lasted years and years . Never gave me trouble .
I think you're doing a great job. I would definitely use the 120 if you're going to use an MLs gasket. you want it as smooth as possible if it's a metal gasket.
I have one of these for sharpening tools and flattening my 8000 grit sharpening waterstones. It’s accurate to 0.00005”. Perfect edges on chisels and other edge tools. You’ll be surprised how often you’ll use it. Cheers
This will work sometimes if you have 3 days to finish it with no certainty it's true. What most guys don't know is the head is still warped. The surface is flat.having said that,the valve guides and seats have moved just a little bit and just enough for the valves on the 2 center cylinders to leak. Do the drip test.most likely fluid will pour out and a valve job will be required. Lapping compound and a drill will not fix that amount of clearance. If you've 4 days to waste on homegrown projects,full speed ahead. Milled my 73 Yamaha 125 head when I was a teen this way.
That's why it got to hot and cracked to begin with no coolant can circulate through those pinholes punch the new head gasket out so the coolant can circulate.
There may be a spec for the minimum roughness of the surface. Costa Mesa R&D, has at least one video on resurfaceing a head and measuring the roughness of the milled surface. It seems to me that the harder the gasket (multi-layer steel vs fiber for example) that you would need a smoother surface because the gasket is less able to conform to minor imperfections. Finishing the surface with 400 grit might be a good precaution.
When the apocalypse goes down this guy will be the go to guy for your mad max style road warrior engines. "Oh your engine over heats and smokes?" "Do you have a chicken a 2 gold nuggets?"
Self-adhesive sheet rolls of sandpaper used in Auto Body work work much better, no need for the messy spray adhesive. Also, alternating at 90° angles to make sure you are sanding evenly. I did a pair of aluminum heads on a 2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee V8, came out very nicely. I went from 80 to 220 Grit and then think I might have finished off with 220. Also make sure you let the weight of the head do the work for you, do not add any downward pressure to avoid rocking and uneven sanding.
Interesting I was moving my table saw the other day and I was looking at the big flat table and thinking the same thing. I'm giving this a go. I was also having difficulty finding large sheets of sand paper so that was brilliant using 3 sheets. If you can sand the head do the valves yourself. I was more confident doing valves than machining but I had had a lot of experience with Briggs and Stratton
I did almost the exact same thing.. scotch 77 , 150 then 300 grit, and a sheet of tempered glass .. 96 Ford explorer intake manifold. Six years later, still running strong. I used wet sandpaper cleaning the sanding off regularly to avoid buildup. 3 surfaces. Oh I also did circular motion. Not always straight line.
I talked to a machinist that put a slant 6 on a chain, stood on it and drug it on the concrete to flatten it, double gasketed it, he jokingly asked the guy about 6 months later how it was doing, he said "running great"
We used this method at the Honda motorcycle dealership I worked at in Del Rio, Texas. Never a problem and we could do it in half the time it took me to drive to a machine shop twice!
Resurfaced by The weight of the cylinder. Great job man. I did the same method using a thick wood board with a sandpaper on it to resurface the intake of the grand marquis. Appreciation for old school sciance.
As a automotive machinist with 25 years of experience, as long as you can find a surface that is true 0, it will work fine for most heads. It won't be a true 0 finish, but close enough for use. Most engine builders don't realize how much the head gasket will compensate for 1 to 2 thousandths difference over all. But the use of a mill or stone resurfacer is recommended for most performance engines. As the higher rpm's require a better fit, or the increased pressure from the combustion stroke firing more often, will push right thru the gasket.
That's a lot of work and risk having to weld up and manually machine. That head has been overheated and abused from lack of cooling system maintenance . It could very well have a internal water jacket crack. And you got to remember the block has also been overheated to the point where the Rings are no longer pushing out on the cylinder walls and the engine will smoke badly and burn oil. I personally recommend in any engine that's been severely overheated needs to be replaced. I've seen people spend $1,800 doing a head job on a 4-cylinder car that overheated. About a week and a half after that repair the rod bearings and crank bearings started to come apart $1,800 wasted they could have put that toward their reman engine with a warranty?
I'd probably coat it with a red sharpy first. That way the low spots stand out really good. Other than that this is a awesome idea. People now days are so convinced that this stuff has to be done professionally for some reason.
Not a bad idea but I couldn't help but notice you can afford to aircondition your shop but need to save a few bucks on having a machine shop mill the head ? The last one i had done was a Honda Civic and the total cost was a hundred dollars to have a professional shop do it who had it returned to me the day after i dropped it off at his shop ? I was just curious of course everyone has the right to do things their own way perhaps you live in a area that doesn't have a shop. Thats capable of Doing that ? I asked a local mechanic freind who he used and went with his reccomendation who worked out well on several engines i rebuilt including doing a heck of a job on porting and polishing Because he had the right equipment and was set up for it plus years of experience and knowledge
Man that comment is dumb as fuck. Who gives a shit if his shop has A.C. and assuming your a guy who pays people to do everything for you. Why the hell would you fault someone who is self sufficient? if anything, you should envy him.
Where do you live? Around here nothing happens until hundreds of dollars is the price. If you do anything different than go to work, come home and sit in front of the TV, you better have tens of thousands of dollars ready!
Myvintageiron7512 no machine shop will mill a head for $40 anymore. Back in the 1900's I was doing a head gasket job once a week for years... the best price in 3 towns was from an old school machinist for $50. He retired years ago. Nowadays, they charge you for every damn little thing they can. You better bring It to them completley dissasembled, or you will get charged a tear down and reassembley fee. Or worse yet, on a OHC if there is a position where none of the valves protrude past the deck, in It goes. Used hydraulic lifters don't like hot tank juice. I saw a proffesional shop make that blunder on a local cops' 4.7 dodge truck. Probably because the cop thought he should get the special pigg's price. They needed to go back in and replace all the lifters because they kept bleeding down and would spit out the cam followers from excessive valalvetrain clearance. The kid at the machine shop didn't disassemble the head before he tanked it. Machine shops today won't even put your dirty head on thier milling table without a $45 hottank fee. Even if you clean it 1st. It fucking sucks assholes trying to get anything done these days if you have to outsource anything. Anything you can PROPERLY do yourself you are better off. Or you are going to PAY and you don't have any guarantee on what you will get.
@@cruzinezy1968 I can partially agree. Here I strip the head, I have a cleaner so I cook the head myself and give them a raw clean head to surface and they charge me $40 for a 4 cylinder diesel head, of course a valve job etc is all extra
When doing this kind of sanding, or any kind of sanding actually, a better way would be to use wet sandpaper and water. The water lubricates the process, carries away the debris, and coincidently prevents/reduces the sandpaper getting clogged with debris. The sandpaper stays sharp longer as well. Win-win. Just don't use it wet for materials that would be damaged by the water.
I used a large electric sheet sander with a prem flat piece of Oak with sand paper. Mine was used to "true" the slightly warped intake on some aftermarket LS high ram fabbed intakes. Got a killer deal on new "out of spec" units and fixed and tested them all. $12 Harbor Freight sander $28 Prem wood piece and sanding paper. EDIT "Intake to head"
Not acetone.... too volatile...lamp oil is the stuff you want.. for washing the crap off. For degreasing when it's already clean brake cleaner is great
crc 5 56 to loosen any sticking crud if wd 40 didn't work. Cleaning with dishsoap with some methylacohol in it. Cut the hairs of a paintbrush a bit shorter to become a bit stiffer.
I did the same thing to a Volvo head back in 2000, me and 4 buddies spent 4 hours getting it to the 0.019 tolerance.I used a piece of glass and stick on DA 80 grit sanding disks lol Shew what a night! Great job!
If you're disappointed, check out my latest video where I use the saw blade to cut a flat surface on a head - ua-cam.com/video/aTfK1XWcgds/v-deo.html
You certainly gave the viewers what they wanted
if you use w d 40 it saqnds eser
Yes like a grinding wheel on it or something ughhh
Was anyone else expecting him to use the saw blade to machine the face with the head laying on its side ?
Actually, yes I wanted to see that and what kickback looks like when a cylinder head hits a table saw.
@540 MUDSTAIN I was envisioning a modification that resembled a flycutter, hopefully with a reduced speed..
no, but it's simply clickbait!
@540 MUDSTAIN This is UA-cam , less common sense = more views, that's why I clicked, there's loads of videos of refacing a head on a flat surface
@@fortunateson6070 the kick back would be mental
As someone who actually worked in motorsport for ten years I can a) confirm that this works fine as long as the surface is flat and b) even some race heads are prepped this way if being reused after a rebuild, done on an actual surface table and with some skill this will actually yield a flatter surface than many machining processes
I did the heads and block for a Subaru flat 6 with this method, and the results were below (less than) 0.05mm in surface distortion. I learned it from a Yamaha jet-ski service manual.
Definitely works - and works well.
Agreed, even the best bearings in the world in a well used machine will not be as true as this method if done correct, this way there is no tolerances to worry about
I have a headstone I bought for $20 from a memorial company that someone ordered but never picked up. Me and William Martin (name on the stone) have surfaced a lot of stuff. It works really great on the top of diesel engine blocks the weight giving it just enough pressure.
This is my favorite so far
Far from stupid. 👍👍I overheated and warped the head on an engine driving cross continent. Being in the middle of the prairies with camping gear, basic tools and little cash, I used a big file to file out the warpage. The old gasket didn’t sustain any damage so I torqued every thing back down. Drove out the next day. That engine repair lasted till I sold the car. About 50,000 miles!
I did this on my kitchen table 16 years ago for the cylinder head on my Arctic Cat Wildcat 700. It works like a charm.
!!! a LONG time ago, I bought a piece of glass from my local glass guy for $18 that was 11" x 36" x 1" thick that milled more heads and blocks than you can imagine!!! Great vid!!
When I worked in a machine shop we called this technique "floating". We'd use a figure 8 motion. Obviously it would be difficult for you on a large object. Also, we had a straight edge to check it and stay on track. Its not as much about shiny surfaces as it is about flat.
It ain't rocket science, and I've been doing this kind of stuff my entire life. Great job! The engine's for an everyday drive not an indy race car. Keep on keepin' on.
david.....idiot.....you and I both know that head wont work. thank Christ you don't touch indy cars
@brennan Clark There have been a few technology advances in the past 60-70 years. If we're talking some chevy truck from the 70s sure. On our 2 year old Volvo SUV? Yeah no.
You would be surprised how much shade tree mechanic work goes on with an Indy car.
ua-cam.com/video/HyKN52HD6RU/v-deo.html this guy is better
@@Egon1982 I knew before I clicked this that it'd be an old skool funk video. Dude is a genius
I use a large piece of polished granite left over from a kitchen table top and crocus. I sharpen a wood chipper blade with a belt sander (220 grit) turned upside down and clamped onto a work mate. Nothing is "stupid" when you give it your best shot!
non man, you got that wrong. nothing is stupid when it works. problem is this does not leave the proper finish to seal a head gasket for more than a short time. what you will find on modern engines is that this polished head will eat gaskets.
in short, doing this will create alot of work in the future. you will be changing head gaskets again and again.
@@lukewarmwater6412 why do you think that is? Looked to me like it wasn't too smooth. 60 grit maybe
@@Emilthehun 60 grit does not cut steel nowhere as well as 80 grit does. I will never use 60 grit again only 80 when the need is to remove as much as possible.
@@lukewarmwater6412 I wouldn't call 80 grit polishing.
@@ioccatonyz1 it's strictly speaking of the finish mating surface. Too smooth and gasket won't seal.
British bikers in the 50s use to do this to their engine cases, as they always leaked oil. As the cases were alloy, they used a sheet of glass, and valve lapping compound to get the case edges perfectly flat.
True comment, I still have 50's bikes and still use 50's tricks ...
so, in other words, they did this the right way, with something that wouldnt wear into a dish shape as it cuts....iron is not the surface to use, if it were you would see it being used like this in shops.
Work's on valvebodys to!
David Hutchison marine engineers as well. Use a flat steel plate or a glass plate and differend courseness of lapping paste. To flatten it finally use a lot of oil and ferry fine lapping paste.
David Hutchison Use an oil stone if its the block still in the car.
For the amount of work that goes through replacing head gaskets, I feel more confident taking the head to a machine shop and having the heads machined . I won’t reuse head bolts either. I helped a friend that wanted to save a few bucks. He tried this process and reused the stretched head bolts, ... a few weeks later he had the same mess!!! If this works for you guys I’m truly happy!!! I just hate redoing things!!!
If I'm going through all the trouble to remove the head then I'm going to take it to a machine shop. Might as well have them check everything. Do it right the first time.
As for reusing bolts ; it’s ok if you measure the stretch and use Caterpillars chart on the proper Lenth chart and on like rod bolts it uses the bolt lenth fo correct bolt torque chart measured with mic’s
If your working on something from the late 80s early 90s then you probably should replace the head bolts, most from the 70s or earlier probably not. They used better bolts in those days
@@BillyDocWalker No.
Bert Grau for the 240Z (an early 70s car) they "recommend" replacing the head bolts. Datsun was notorious for using poor quality metals all over their cars back then. That being said, however, I've reused the Z head bolts after doing visual inspections and a back out torque check ( there are charts for that) and haven't had any problems with bolt failure or head warping. Even though, if I have the time and money I DO replace head bolts.
I used to work in an engine rebuilding shop (Vulcan Automotive, Vancouver BC) and we straightened warped aluminum cylinder heads this way:
1) bolt head to a 1" thick steel plate at least 1" wider and longer than the head casting.
2) tighten to torque specs.
3) place it in a BBQ.
4) use a full 20# tank,
5) light the BBQ and put all burners on high temp. (not the rotisserie burner if fitted)
6) leave it cooking for 12-16 hours or until propane runs out.
7) allow to cool to room temp.
8) check for straightness with a straight edge and feeler gauges. Should be no more than .003" out in any direction.
9) sand smooth like you show in the video. Again, should be no more than .003" out in any direction.
10) admire your work and congratulate yourself on saving a "ruined" cylinder head.
Very good solution for not removing material
When you get this down to where you want it, you should should use a lapping motion ( small figure 8 motion ) to finish it off. Everything will then end up flat . Also rub a marker or dikem blue on the surface and do one more light lapping to true check out surface.
My High School shop teacher taught us this trick 31 years ago. He also used a straight edge and feeler gauges to see how warped the head was. He was a pretty smart. This was one of our class projects we we're graded on in auto shop.
I was a huge fan of this method until I found out my local machine shop will do it for like $35 and get it perfect every time
Exactly.. this is why i hate youtube.. dumbass central
matttafakt sometimes people just like to work with the tools. The passion lies in the journey for some, not just the destination. And it’s good to know in case of a dinosaur apocalypse
It's called joe public beating the system for a change. Sometimes there are no garages close to you to do it and it feels good to be able to beat the system.
Roland Anderson But, even for $35, you might have to wait a couple of days to get your part back. This way, you can make good progress through the day and weekend. Plus, we’re all too lazy and fat, and this will burn some calories too! Lol.
It's much more expensive in Ireland I think to get a head resurfaced and valves cleaned and reseated. Also there are many garages who will do the minimum when customer not around.
I learned this trick a long time ago from an old motorcycle mechanic, I've done this to countless dirtbikes and streetbikes. Thanks for sharing!
Paint it with Prussian blue... see just what you're doing !
And turn it 180 every so often to make the pattern even.
I was told to use a piece of glass and to move the part in a figure 8 motion to prevent sanding one side too much
Kinda hard to do a figure 8 with a heavy piece.
i used a glass table top worked amazingly well
I've had good results using this method for resurfacing carburetor mating surfaces and other smaller components but never anything as large as a cylinder head. But like the saw table method shown here you have nothing to loose if there is no access to a machine shop and you have to get it running.
El Rey as a machinist to proper remove the high spots in the vise and machine table using a hone stone in a figure 8 motion prevents wear in the same area. I myself was thinking the same thing as he started the video he’s going to wear “grooves” in it in the same direction instead of a circular pattern from the back and forth motion
@@davidnelson2804 it's also a good practice to rotate the stone or part 90 or 180° frequently to help keep the part flat due to unevenly applied pressure.
I did pretty much the same thing in my "hillbilly machine shop" on the heads for a Nissan 3.3 V6. However I used thick plate glass for doing the "final" sanding with 240 grit emery cloth glued to the glass. For the initial "roughing", I made a large wooden block from a laminated beam, and I laminated the surface with formica and checked with a straight edge before gluing the 80 grit emery cloth. It was much easier since the block is lighter than the head, plus I could see the progress. I switched to 150 grit on the block for a "cleanup" before finishing up on the plate glass with 240 grit. Be aware that since aluminum will gall very easily, you must keep sweeping the sand paper off to prevent that. One tiny little chunk of aluminum will "roll" and cause a gouge, and thus, more work. The intake manifold, and plenum got the same treatment since they were a bit warped too. End to end (longitudinal) flatness, though important, isn't as critical as being flat across between the cylinders. The head will flex end to end when you torque it down, but there are no bolts in the center so flatness across needs to be very flat by at least 1/16" the thickness of the gasket. And yes, always use new head bolts when called for because of not only stretch, but tortional strength as well.
I've done this to three cars so far using 100 grit sandpaper on a piece of glass. And yes it works great. Haven't had a problem with yet with it. Saw it on another UA-cam video a while back. It's saved me $35 per cylinder every time I did this. I have used a mill in the past, and I can verify this procedure is almost perfect.
Would you have to make sure you have a thick piece of glass?
first time I did this was 1960. had a 49 harley davidson 45 v twin that leaked oil where the cast iron oil pump fit on to the aluminum housing. used a safety plate glass window from a 28 plymouth and valve grinding compound. worked to remove a screwdriver gouge in the aluminum(former owner). last time it was grinding 14 thousandths off the cylinder head for my 5 hp briggs engine to raise compression(I live near Denver). used a glass with 360 grit wet-dry sandpaper glued on. did it in the kitchen sink with warm water and a bit of dish soap. Your video shows how you can accomplish things well without spending large amounts of money. I hope the welds hold up good for you and don't crack/leak.
This works, I've never had an issue afterward. I've also used two 2x10 attached together with a small handle. Adhesive sandpaper on the bottom , vary the grit and sand along the length. I've done engine blocks this way too. Current one has over 60k miles on this home finishing.
Been doing this in cuba for decades, for all the naysayers, this does actually work just fine.
I believe you, so long as the table is perfectly flat.
@@JD10101-_- A straight edge and flashlight should show you that.
@@gerhardbraatz6305 as a machinist, i'm talking about the type of flat that you can't see. maybe with older engines this will do. but anything with high compression and you will at the least want to use a verified flat surface. and at maximum use a granite plate, as it won't warp with different temperatures, where the steel table will.
My waverunner head was Really warped. Glass table and sandpaper helped a Ton....
@540 MUDSTAIN they beat the piss out of drag engines. so i stand by what i said.
I saw the title and got excited that I was going to see a Darwin award in the making.
I want a refund xD
😅😅😅😅
@HangLoose_OG I watched it during the change of daylight savings time so I didn't lose anything. :)
You can feel a thousands of an inch, but you cant find the end of the sticky tape!!!!
Omg. Lol
Yep
I Chuckled a little
@@DYLAN102001 Nice.
That's profound!
i have lapped in many motorcycle heads and engine cases using your method. I have done this to minimize the amount of metal to take off as planing in a mill seems to remove a lot more metal.
The life of a racing head can be extended that way where it might be history after several milling operations. Lap those valves in and you will be ready to go.
The wife's marble counter top works good for me.
ex wife?
@J.C. Kohle That wouldn't be my first choice for lube, but to each their own :D
I would have turned the head 180 degrees from time to time... Maybe if the table was a bit warped, it would even it out...
You should actually have the head facing you diagonally like this / and push back and forth, then switch it 180 and do it the opposite way to achieve a cross hatching or x pattern on the head surface like your bore surface
If you can’t do the figure 8, do it like your block sanding a body panel.
- | / \
Do it in those 4 directions, back and forth and both diagonals.
and count your strokes and it’ll be pretty decent.
This was a great video. I did this with my Volvo 8v "Redblock" head. Took about 8 hours to get it completely flat. Next time I will probably just spend the $150 and take it to a machine shop, but I was very broke at the time, and this worked great for me. Instead of a table saw I used a roughly 12"x 36" piece of scrap marble from a countertop that was removed from a house demo in the neighborhood. Alternatively you can use a thick pane of glass.
My dad cleaned up a journal on my cars crank-shaft using a good connecting rod (the old one was shaped like an egg) and a couple of new bearings. What he did was put valve grinding compound in the new inserts in the connecting rod and we turned it around the crank. We started with 40 turns and coarse grit compound and took off 10 thousands immediately. We cleaned the journal and swapped to fine grit compound and after 90 or so turns the journal was round and true. Then we purchased 20 thousands oversized bearing. Checked it with plasti-gage and it was perfect. I drove the car another 10k miles before I had to sell it (military family moved over-seas). I was shocked at how well it worked. If you take your time I am sure this method of leveling a head would work too. Nice work.
Bruce Williams I've been a mechanic for over 25 years and never heard of anyone doing this. Beats the old wives' tale of a trucker using a section of his leather belt as a connecting rod bearing insert to temporarily fix a rod knock while on the road.
Hats' off to your old man.
Hi @@cruzinezy1968 , Like I said, I was really skeptical but then I shouldn't have been. Before my father went back into the army, he was a master machinist for Pratt & Whitney. He would have no problem lapping things in to +/- 0.0005 of an inch (0.015 mm). The amount of measurements we took of that damned journal were ridiculous. But it worked well. The sad part was that he was so cheap and I was so broke, that we didn't buy a gasket kit for the timing chain housing and the thing leaked incessantly. It was a great life experience.
@@cruzinezy1968 Well I guess a mechanic of 25 years just learned something. Can't figure out why you wouldn't think it is possible. I watched my old man do something like it on an old John Deere 2 Cyl. tractor back in the mid 1960's. No rod inserts in those rods. Another old guy had rebabbitted the rod and he was getting the rod to fit the crank. NOT AN OLD WIVES TALE EITHER SMARTYPANTS. Tractor ran for many years after and was sold when he retired about 1975. Still running great too!
thanks Bruce, I'm going to give that a try!
Just in case anyone is going to do this there are a couple of things you need to know. First, do not tighten the journal or rod cap too tight; the grinding compound removes a great deal of material very quickly. Second, Inspect often. Again, it didn't take that long to remove a great deal of material with the coarse grinding compound. Third, Make sure that your rod journal is true prior. When we did this, we had to get a new connecting rod as the old one was too out of tolerance. Fourth, use a new bearing liner when going from the coarse to the fine. And lastly, we bolted the whole crank-shaft to a table to make it easier to work on. My dad said it could be done in the car or machine if you had to but was a PITA. PS- make sure you get rid of all the grinding compound after and check with plastigage for clearance. Best of luck to anyone who needs to do this.
I use a large steralite plastic tub & water based solvent from harbor freight. Soak the head overnight, scrub anything that didn't just dissolve, hose off & use the air gun blower thingy to dry it. A lot of people use kerosene & I've seen a few use mineral spirits (it works wicked fast... but scares me more lol) hope you are having fun with the project. Thanks for the video
To anyone here that claims this does not work......look up "hand scaping". You can get a metal surface flat to within .00005 (yes, 4 zeros!) with another flat surface and some elbow grease. Millwrights use the process every day to build, and rebuild metal working machinery. As a journeyman toolmaker I can tell you this man's process is quite sound. As long as you have a flat surface and use some care it will turn out as good as any belt surfaced/milled head taken to the machine shop. A proper straight edge and feeler gages should be used to check your work.
Is that like "manscaping"?
Amateur telescope makers get even higher precision than this, making mirrors, using just glass-on-glass (or -tile) with abrasives and water, and a lot of patience and elbow grease. Sure, they can buy commercially-made mirrors and things, but the fun is in the process, and knowing you CAN do it yourself.
dogshouse1
Lol Had to laugh at the naysayers. Wasn’t some of the training for millwrights to learn to us a file.? AND elbow grease. People that have never done this kind of work have no idea.
and better yet, check the surface of the saw bench
Mate ! You've gota give it a go , and that looks great , a wee bit of elbow grease saved alot of money and energy eg : droppin head off , talking , pikn head up and paying half a days wages ! When you're at home , comfy in your workshop , fridge aint far you're familiar with where everything is, awsome work.
I did two cast iron 3.0 Ford heads this same way. Took forever, but the car has 30k trouble free miles on it as of today.
Might be getting ready to deck a ford 4.0 block this way
You can get more predictable results if the sandpaper is a wet-or-dry variety (can’t tell from the packages in your video) and you lubricate the surface of the sandpaper using a spray bottle of water mixed with a few drops of dish detergent. The water/detergent mix makes it easier to get the metal filings off the sandpaper and makes it easier and quicker to get the results you want. The same technique can be used to sharpen knives and chisels using a glass plate to hold the sandpaper. I use a piece of marble tile - the water makes the sandpaper stay in place, so no spray glue is required.
The tiny holes in the head gasket is for air to escape, coolant doesn't need to flow that way. Spray the head with purple power degreaser and rinse with hot water, blow dry with air compressor.... Being a professional technician my first reaction was "WHAT THE HELL IS THIS GUY DOING" but after I watched the video I have to hand it to you. You did a nice job man.
+MrRetahreggin I have retired from the world of fighting the clock each day as an ASE Master Tech, working on everything from bumper to bumper. I do miss a little, but not the shop politics or favoritism, but I have a question. What is the "Purple powder degreaser" you spoke of? Like most shops, we had various types of products, some were ZEP brand, but I have a 4L60 trans to clean up at home, without a shop solvent tank. I was just prepared to use a bucket of elbow of bucket grease, mineral spirits and the like. I would appreciate it if you can share if it works good on aluminum casting. Thanks. P.S. Perhaps this guy could use a homemade adaptor for use with a reciprocating saw to speed up his....aaH, flattening process. Very interesting, but I have seen heads and flywheels dressed with a Bridgeport Mill many times. You can't do this on a flywheel, Right?
@Caleb Perkins Yes, I know that feeling of "What the Hell". I left a dealership and moved to a different state in 1982 for the family and better pay. (Flat Rate for customers $24 / Techs paid $6.90) I found a new job at well equipped shop, not a dealer. They had a need for an import tech and had a new 4 gas engine analyzer (Bear Ace), but also a hot tank. New to me, but a guy serviced it once a month with bottom cleaning and sodium hydroxide. I work on everything and while doing a valve job on a V8 Pontiac, I placed the rocker arm on a full length pivot tube into the tank while on a wire. Pulled them out 2 or 3 hours later and they melted off. Whoops! I guess they where aluminum. Oh the lesson we learn!
Purple power is a non corrosive degreaser and I use it frequently on aluminum. I wouldn't suggest leaving it on long before rinsing it off. You can purchase it cheap at any hardware store or auto parts store. This is only a degreaser and usually requires a solvent of some kind to completely remove. I only suggested it to this man because he was on the cheap and this would work fine for what he was trying to accomplish. At our shop we buy a drum of a/c flush and use spray guns. I dont remember the brand but its 800 dollars a drum :(... good stuff though.
Caleb Perkins bio solve green. Also called "green acetone"
@@deankay4434 - Cleaning Transmission Parts was the real reason God invented the Kitchen Dishwasher.
Worst case scenario you get a new one for your wife, and move the "old" one to the garage. Use lots of dishwasher soap, lots or REAL TSP, and really hot hot water.
You'll love how the kitchen will smell, too - just like the shop you just retired from I bet, with a hint of lemony freshness. She will be so happy you won't believe it.
(Pure TSP Tri-Sodium Phosphate can be ordered on Amazon for about $12 for a 5 pound box, and it works better that any "Green", "Purple" or other cleaners. Don't let it drip on the kitchen floor or you might end up buying a new one of those, too. I use a tea to tablespoon of it in my dishwasher for regular dishes, too. It is the Nuclear Option for dirty dishes and keeps the machine sparkling fresh)
I have two dodge 5.9 liter/360 cid heads that I am hoping will fit in my dishwasher, after I surface them like Dennis did in this video)
My buddy has a head shop so I get it done for about the cost of that glue and sandpaper. It's about the same principle. His head surfacer looks like a grocery store check out. Instead of a conveyor belt it has a big sandpaper belt. You just set the head on it and turn the belt on. There's a stop at the end to keep the head from flying off. Then you let gravity do it's thing. Pretty neat operation. I always thought there was special milling machines but old school works.
Ron what grid does he use???
Dang I was really hoping so see some joker using a table saw somehow cutting head material off lol. But this is actually legit. I like the idea
Nice job Dennis. It should work fine. One thing most people do not know is that gaskets are actually a moving part. Every heat cycle that an engine goes through they expand and contact. You explained every step-by-step. No need to go to the gym afterwards:)
Keep up the good work and thank you for sharing!!!
I'm a certified rocket surgeon, and I approve this procedure.
I am a certified comedy critique and I approve this comment!
I'm just certifiable.
I am a certified brain surgeon and i do all heads like this.
I never really gave it much thought until just tonight when watching this video. I have a table saw in my basement and I'm going to try it, I have cast Iron and aluminum heads and the cost is minimal, I can run over to The Home Depot and pick up the sandpaper and I already have the 3M spray adhesive. I just subbed, liked, and clicked on the bell. Thank's for sharing this idea. I'm 69 years old, retired and worked as a mechanic/technician over 45 years and never thought of trying that. Thank's again, really enjoy your video. BTW, I worked at a machine shop 5 years, some things we just don't think about without getting a 2X4 upside the head, lol.
Yes that will work. I am a retired machinist and that will work but will take some time.
Pretty cool! You can also use a large flat file and 'draw' file end to end first to speed things up a bit but still a good job. If your valves don't seal well, you can use a hand drill and valve grinding compound to do a home grown valve job. Good luck!
Nice job; strange that the head needed welding the coolant holes. Strange what happens in the real world.
Your instincts are pretty good. Looks like a grafoil gasket; not very durable but not very fussy about flatness.
If I did fly cut the head deck as a home amateur,I would lap it like this as a check for flatness and waviness anyway.
I am a retired cylinder head engineer. You should get some more use out of that engine for your trouble.
He had to weld due to corrosion which is due to not changing the antifreeze. You see this a lot where people don't maintain their vehicles. Have seen this as well in stationary generators that are neglected or in areas of high mineral content in the local water. I highly suggest using premix antifreeze which uses de-ionized water.
Nice to see a pro be supportive
Been using this trick on a smaller scale (air cooled engines) for 20 years and it works great, especially out in the field where you have limited resources. In my case the engine has been run a while with a leaking head gasket so there's always a low spot. My rig is a block of steel plate with some 80 grit that's self stick. (body shop sander style) Work the head in small circles, turn it 90 degrees, a few more strokes, turn it 90 degrees, etc. Keeps things even all the way around. By the time I get 360 degrees it's usually good.
Excellent job. DIY all day.
Oh hey man, I watched your videos before I tried this! Thanks for the info and inspiration!
Yeah it's true you inspire us a lot. Thank God for your skills. Carry on.
Yep, most definitely. Those jerks who keep telling me "it's not going to work" can say whatever they want while I be making some cash.
Blind leading the blind on Tha YewTube....the only one profiting from your amateuristic approach is Google!
I've never had a tattoo. But, if I did, it would say "DIY all day!"
One thing you need to determine BEFORE you sand or mill the head is whether it is warped by putting a STRAIGHT ground bar on the cam bearing surfaces and use a 1-2 thousandths feeler gauge to make sure the heads aren't warped. If they are, and you flatten the deck, or they will probably warp FURTHER and you will probably start taking out cam bearings prematurely, or possibly even break a cam, which will destroy most engines (valves and pistons aren't compatible in the same space). The warped head can be straightened in a hot oven (~500 F) for several hours, bolted to a flat plate with some appropriate thickness shims bend them a bit past so they spring back. Allow them to cool slowly inside the oven after turning off the heating element. Only AFTER the cam saddles are straight should you deck the head. You should also do the longitudinal, latitudinal, and x pattern checks with a feeler gauge afterward to make sure the head surface is flat. Just Sayin'.
Don't breathe any aluminum dust tho , dementia / altzhiemers is more expensive than a cyl head
Appreciate the details on the weld, over-dremel-but-OK, flat surface, razor & feel, adhesive, grit, warning on curving (only push horizontal), clean paper periodically. I'd use finer grit at the end. Also, don't use solvent - it embeds grit, use light oil and clean rag, turned after each swipe. Thanks for showing another practical way to avoid needless machine time/cost.
Not, " using a table saw" . Using a saw table. othwe wise good show.
Frank Deon yeah, I had horrible visions of the saw being used to cut the head. 😱 good use of the table though. 👍🏻
@540 MUDSTAIN well the table does belong to the saw so it could be saws table lol sorry
@@mikenunya5606 meet in the middle and call it a table saw table
Hahaha, dumb argument!
......now i feel dumb for making this comment, Dammit!
@540 MUDSTAIN A table saw is a saw mounted in a table he used the saw table
Correct way to make a flat surface is to just use 3 slabs of aluminium (or steel if you have more patience and want a longer lasting result), put grinding compound between A and B, grind them against each other for a bit, then grind B and C against each other, then grind A and C against each other, then repeat many many times through this cycle. Then you get PERFECTLY flat surfaces to grind heads, cylinders, pistons, angle irons, jewels, gold, brass, whatever, against.
Glass panel or a granite slab for measurements is the only two things outside a machine shop I'll ever trust
This method does work and can work well "if" you know what you are doing. First off for aluminum heads I use 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper and WD40. Second, you need to use a straight edge and feeler gauges to check progress along the way, It is completely possible to sand the head and have it become .002-.003" cupped between the combustion chambers.
For God's sake, blue-up the surface ( even a Magic Marker will work ) so that you can see the high and low spots.
How would you do that?
You can see the sand paper marks for God's sake.
You are correct!
they have something called dykum blue ink, in a 2 OZ can.
Paint in on metal surfaces and examine after east cut session.
Yes, add the bluing
Problem you can run into is if you have a high spot it will flatten unevenly and could cause your head to have a taper or twist. So be sure to keep an eye on it as you get started to make sure your getting an even pattern
Your finger can feel a millionth of an inch, yet somehow can't feel all the scratches caused by that sand paper.
This does work. I've done similar. Check with a straight edge often. Lapping in the valves will make the engine run like new.
I have done this several times on motorcycle heads. I used this method, then switched to finer grit. Works great. Its not rocket science.
Great. I always do it like you do, and never had Any problem with the method. Nice to see oldschool ways of doping things.
Great job 👍 just remember to use feeler gage and a steel engineers rule to check for any distortion
I've done similar. Never used tablesaw. But then I don't have one. It works perfectly fine. One piece of advice. It is much faster and don't even need the sand paper if you use a large flat file. Go over the surface using crisscross motions in all directions. Keep shavings cleaned off. Sure machine shops do it cheap. But you can have engine running before you get your head returned usually. Never had a fail
You could do with a good half face mask with interchangeable filters. I've made the mistake too many times thinking oh it's just a little bit of dust.
just did it on a 1/2 inch plate of glass and used stair skid sticky paper that works just like sandpaper and can be wet sanded too..it also comes in a role and you can stick down one full piece. it worked great.
You should have first used a certified straight edge to verify the flatness of the table saw top. If you sit the straight edge on top of the table saw then you can use feeler gauges at different points to verify how warped the top is and where the warpage is located. Example: If the feeler gauge slides under the straight edge in the middle, then the table saw top is sagging. If the feeler gauge won't slide under the straight edge at the center, but it will at the outer edges, then the table saw top is arched. The largest feeler gauge you can slide under the straight edge (without lifting it) is the amount of warpage in the table saw top. You should check the flatness first unloaded (nothing on the table saw), then again loaded (with the head on the table saw). The reason? The table saw could be perfectly flat unloaded, but could show significant sagging or warpage when loaded. When you check... measure front to back, side to side, and diagonal to diagonal. If the warpage it's less than a few thousandth of an inch I wouldn't worry too much, but if you have 30 or 40 thousandths (or more) then I wouldn't use the table saw top, unless you have a way of making the table saw top true... I would assume you don't or you wouldn't be using the table saw top to start with.
A cheap certified straight edge can be bought at some art stores, usually for drafting purposes. They tend to be thin when compared to a machinist straight edge, but it's better than no straight edge at all. Hope this information was helpful.
🙄
Dude its not going to see boost its fine
And that's why all the old stuff ran forever because we had guys with patients and knowledge and a thirst for perfection. Unlike these days were nobody cares about quality because people want the newest version of everything knowing they're going to just trash the other one, it's a shame. I've watched people go through a Couple new cars in a 15 year period because they would always have some stupid problem (low quality) and in that time I've had a 76 gmc jimmy that's only needed a starter and a water pump in that time period ($55 and 2 hours of work) Keep on sharing that knowledge we need as much of it as we can get, we need quality back in our lives
Hope nobody ever hits your '76 Jimmy. You're comparing apples to oranges. Of course a ~40 year old car has fewer systems to fail, hence assuming equal reliability there will be fewer overall failures. Also it doesn't make sense to build a car that lasts 20 years anymore than it does to make a cellphone that lasts 5. Rate of technical advance has increased a lot in the past 50 years.
I was a machinist some years ago, and this would work just fine. Any small imperfections in the cutting surface really wouldn't do anything. You're not transferring that surface onto the head, just removing material evenly. Just so long as you turn the piece as you do so it would come out basically perfect. I would put this method next to grinding, which can be extremely precise.
I used liquid metal epoxy to be build the corroded areas . Drilled out the junk to bare metal then applied mixed liquid metal to build it up . Just before dry while its soft trim level with straight edge . Then I used a new 12 inch knife sharpening stone with kero as lube in figure 8 pattern onto the head surface to smooth it back . Was all good . Lasted years and years . Never gave me trouble .
I think you're doing a great job. I would definitely use the 120 if you're going to use an MLs gasket. you want it as smooth as possible if it's a metal gasket.
I did end up going to 120 after I read a little more about gaskets. So much I don't know!
180/240 to end with.
I have one of these for sharpening tools and flattening my 8000 grit sharpening waterstones. It’s accurate to 0.00005”. Perfect edges on chisels and other edge tools. You’ll be surprised how often you’ll use it. Cheers
you could add some bungee cords to the studs to pull back on it as you push it away from you, they will help pull it back.
This will work sometimes if you have 3 days to finish it with no certainty it's true. What most guys don't know is the head is still warped. The surface is flat.having said that,the valve guides and seats have moved just a little bit and just enough for the valves on the 2 center cylinders to leak. Do the drip test.most likely fluid will pour out and a valve job will be required. Lapping compound and a drill will not fix that amount of clearance. If you've 4 days to waste on homegrown projects,full speed ahead. Milled my 73 Yamaha 125 head when I was a teen this way.
That's why it got to hot and cracked to begin with no coolant can circulate through those pinholes punch the new head gasket out so the coolant can circulate.
Just run em through the jointer. 😂
Yep, the same way you deck a block on your planer.
Lmao!
LaserFalcon brilliant why didn't I think of that?
@@andrewgroves8523Upbringing?
@D cole planners are usually made of paper, would never work
There may be a spec for the minimum roughness of the surface. Costa Mesa R&D, has at least one video on resurfaceing a head and measuring the roughness of the milled surface. It seems to me that the harder the gasket (multi-layer steel vs fiber for example) that you would need a smoother surface because the gasket is less able to conform to minor imperfections. Finishing the surface with 400 grit might be a good precaution.
When the apocalypse goes down this guy will be the go to guy for your mad max style road warrior engines. "Oh your engine over heats and smokes?" "Do you have a chicken a 2 gold nuggets?"
Self-adhesive sheet rolls of sandpaper used in Auto Body work work much better, no need for the messy spray adhesive.
Also, alternating at 90° angles to make sure you are sanding evenly.
I did a pair of aluminum heads on a 2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee V8, came out very nicely. I went from 80 to 220 Grit and then think I might have finished off with 220.
Also make sure you let the weight of the head do the work for you, do not add any downward pressure to avoid rocking and uneven sanding.
Measurements before and after be a good idea not to remove too much!
Haha as a machinist you sound funny
Interesting I was moving my table saw the other day and I was looking at the big flat table and thinking the same thing. I'm giving this a go. I was also having difficulty finding large sheets of sand paper so that was brilliant using 3 sheets.
If you can sand the head do the valves yourself. I was more confident doing valves than machining but I had had a lot of experience with Briggs and Stratton
Just did this to my Porsche head on a large thick glass table .seemed to work ok .used air to blow head and paper clean
did the same with my audi tt
I did almost the exact same thing.. scotch 77 , 150 then 300 grit, and a sheet of tempered glass .. 96 Ford explorer intake manifold. Six years later, still running strong. I used wet sandpaper cleaning the sanding off regularly to avoid buildup. 3 surfaces. Oh I also did circular motion. Not always straight line.
I talked to a machinist that put a slant 6 on a chain, stood on it and drug it on the concrete to flatten it, double gasketed it, he jokingly asked the guy about 6 months later how it was doing, he said "running great"
lol thats how i flatten exhuast manifolds.. i wouldnt do a head that way...
Brian C I would expect no less from a leaning tower of no power.
@@cruzinezy1968 do some research on the 225 slant 6. you can get some serious power out of them
@@BushCraftN4U) Yeah, the old slant six was a powerhouse back in the day especially with extractors and a twin carb set-up.
We used this method at the Honda motorcycle dealership I worked at in Del Rio, Texas. Never a problem and we could do it in half the time it took me to drive to a machine shop twice!
GREAT VIDEO PERFORMED THE SAME TASK FOLLOWING YOUR INSTRUCTIONS HEADS TURNED OUT GREAT,THANKS A
Resurfaced by The weight of the cylinder.
Great job man.
I did the same method using a thick wood board with a sandpaper on it to resurface the intake of the grand marquis. Appreciation for old school sciance.
Good job bud, top marks not going to Troll you like so many know it all's.
What's funny is I've seen where mills have ways that are so trashed you'd have a worse surface than doing it like this.
As a automotive machinist with 25 years of experience, as long as you can find a surface that is true 0, it will work fine for most heads. It won't be a true 0 finish, but close enough for use. Most engine builders don't realize how much the head gasket will compensate for 1 to 2 thousandths difference over all. But the use of a mill or stone resurfacer is recommended for most performance engines. As the higher rpm's require a better fit, or the increased pressure from the combustion stroke firing more often, will push right thru the gasket.
That's a lot of work and risk having to weld up and manually machine. That head has been overheated and abused from lack of cooling system maintenance . It could very well have a internal water jacket crack. And you got to remember the block has also been overheated to the point where the Rings are no longer pushing out on the cylinder walls and the engine will smoke badly and burn oil. I personally recommend in any engine that's been severely overheated needs to be replaced. I've seen people spend $1,800 doing a head job on a 4-cylinder car that overheated. About a week and a half after that repair the rod bearings and crank bearings started to come apart $1,800 wasted they could have put that toward their reman engine with a warranty?
Valenza@sbcglobal.net SNOWFALL CHICAGO
no it fine k.i.s.s method metal was melted to pour in a mold look it over repair n use
Seen this back in the 90s. All before the new tech. Great work
A machine shop, 50 bux (or whatever) and have it milled properly?
Naw, that would be no fun :)
I'd probably coat it with a red sharpy first. That way the low spots stand out really good. Other than that this is a awesome idea. People now days are so convinced that this stuff has to be done professionally for some reason.
Not a bad idea but I couldn't help but notice you can afford to aircondition your shop but need to save a few bucks on having a machine shop mill the head ? The last one i had done was a Honda Civic and the total cost was a hundred dollars to have a professional shop do it who had it returned to me the day after i dropped it off at his shop ? I was just curious of course everyone has the right to do things their own way perhaps you live in a area that doesn't have a shop. Thats capable of Doing that ? I asked a local mechanic freind who he used and went with his reccomendation who worked out well on several engines i rebuilt including doing a heck of a job on porting and polishing Because he had the right equipment and was set up for it plus years of experience and knowledge
Maybe he can afford to air condition his shop because he saves a few hundred by doing things himself instead of paying someone else
Well, he has a hundred bucks in his pocket doesn't he?
Man that comment is dumb as fuck. Who gives a shit if his shop has A.C. and assuming your a guy who pays people to do everything for you. Why the hell would you fault someone who is self sufficient? if anything, you should envy him.
I did that to a set of Big Block Chevy 427 Heads 30 years ago, it works. Started with 220 grit then 400 then 600.
MacGyver did this in the 80s.
MacGyver is my idol
true you can take more off one side if not careful, but the surface can still remain flat. Just not parallel to the opposing side.
A machine shop will mill it for $40.00
Where do you live? Around here nothing happens until hundreds of dollars is the price. If you do anything different than go to work, come home and sit in front of the TV, you better have tens of thousands of dollars ready!
@@joea1433 about any engine shop would charge you $25-40 to resurface a small head like that.
@@joea1433 haha what r u a native u living on white man land now don't be so stupid strongbow
Myvintageiron7512 no machine shop will mill a head for $40 anymore. Back in the 1900's I was doing a head gasket job once a week for years... the best price in 3 towns was from an old school machinist for $50. He retired years ago.
Nowadays, they charge you for every damn little thing they can. You better bring It to them completley dissasembled, or you will get charged a tear down and reassembley fee. Or worse yet, on a OHC if there is a position where none of the valves protrude past the deck, in It goes. Used hydraulic lifters don't like hot tank juice. I saw a proffesional shop make that blunder on a local cops' 4.7 dodge truck. Probably because the cop thought he should get the special pigg's price. They needed to go back in and replace all the lifters because they kept bleeding down and would spit out the cam followers from excessive valalvetrain clearance. The kid at the machine shop didn't disassemble the head before he tanked it. Machine shops today won't even put your dirty head on thier milling table without a $45 hottank fee. Even if you clean it 1st.
It fucking sucks assholes trying to get anything done these days if you have to outsource anything.
Anything you can PROPERLY do yourself you are better off. Or you are going to PAY and you don't have any guarantee on what you will get.
@@cruzinezy1968 I can partially agree. Here I strip the head, I have a cleaner so I cook the head myself and give them a raw clean head to surface and they charge me $40 for a 4 cylinder diesel head, of course a valve job etc is all extra
When doing this kind of sanding, or any kind of sanding actually, a better way would be to use wet sandpaper and water. The water lubricates the process, carries away the debris, and coincidently prevents/reduces the sandpaper getting clogged with debris. The sandpaper stays sharp longer as well. Win-win. Just don't use it wet for materials that would be damaged by the water.
And here I was thinking he was going to use a saw 🤦♂️ lmao ....good vid tho
I used a large electric sheet sander with a prem flat piece of Oak with sand paper.
Mine was used to "true" the slightly warped intake on some aftermarket LS high ram fabbed intakes.
Got a killer deal on new "out of spec" units and fixed and tested them all. $12 Harbor Freight sander $28 Prem wood piece and sanding paper.
EDIT "Intake to head"
No bluing on the surface is %100 a rookie move.
Great job!
Not acetone.... too volatile...lamp oil is the stuff you want.. for washing the crap off. For degreasing when it's already clean brake cleaner is great
Diesel and a wire brush worked for me done 3 engines they all run. And are clean
kerosene always has worked for me in the past :)
crc 5 56 to loosen any sticking crud if wd 40 didn't work. Cleaning with dishsoap with some methylacohol in it. Cut the hairs of a paintbrush a bit shorter to become a bit stiffer.
I did the same thing to a Volvo head back in 2000, me and 4 buddies spent 4 hours getting it to the 0.019 tolerance.I used a piece of glass and stick on DA 80 grit sanding disks lol Shew what a night! Great job!