DC-DC CHARGERS. Victron VS Redarc How to chose the right one for you.
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- Опубліковано 1 лип 2024
- Two excellent products.
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Redarc are Adelaide based and provide local jobs. That's my choice.
Had I been Australian or living there, I'd choose them to for that exact reason.👍
In Northern Europe however, Victron is my choice.
The people working in Adelaide mean just as much to me as the people who build Victron, wherever they are.
We’re all equal. (I’m from Vic)
100%, but there are applications where one is better than the other. I use redarc in my ute and did have in my boat but had to change to victron in the boat as I have a lithium Start battery and the victron allows me to setup/edit the voltages to better suit charging from lithium start battery.
Redarc has a brilliant after sale service 😊
Redarc are a rip off
There 3000w inverter is nearly 3000 dollars ....
That's not even in the ballpark of a value proposition
You can nearly buy an all in one solar generator with a 3000w inverter inbuilt for that price 🤣
I could believe something being double or triple the price of an alternative
But 10 times the cost
There taking people who buy the stuff as sucker's
Thank you for a great informative video. I'm happy to see both units available on the market. It comes down to user preference. Choose the best product to suit your application. If only one or the other were available, there's no incentive for manufacturers to strive for improvement. Having two high-quality brands effectively leading the market, we customers are the ones who reap the benefits. Even people who have a lower budget benefit, as the lower priced brands mimic the features of the leading manufacturers. I always try to buy quality, and it was hard choosing between the two.
Excellent advice from a guy with the experience to know what he's talking about. Thanks Andrew ☺👋👍👍
Thank you, Andrew. Your insight is always quite valuable.
What a gem of a video! Glad I found this channel. THANK YOU!
THIS video answers the question!
I’m in the process of fitting a DC to DC charger myself 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍 Thanks for sharing 👍
Thanks Andrew, really helpful.
Very informative. Thanks.
My Redarc is behind the grill on the bracket they sell. Works a treat and no heat issues 😊
I use the Redarc BCDC1225D charging a Redarc 100AH LiPo, monitored by a Victron 702 Smart Shunt with Bluetooth adaptor. It's simple and it works. Recently ran a Dometic cfx 40 over a 4 day camping trip, (with some driving) in 35ºc temps and hardly made a dent in the battery. Redarc isn't cheap but the quality, customer service and fact it's Australian owned and made makes it a great choice.
I even get 45 amps out of my Redarc 1240D if it's kept cool. So I added an internal heatsink and 40mm computer fan to do just that.
Redarc is a great company. Nice support etc. I have used the 1240D charger for a couple of years but then I upgraded to all Victron gear. The mppts is just another level. It does a much better job charging your battery using solar. As Andrew said, the fact it Handel's higher voltage, it gives you much more flexibility on how to design your solar system and the outcome is just amazing.
I have found this with my testing over the years. Higher solar input wakes up earlier in the morning and charges into the late arvo for better yield into the batteries.
Lovely stuff
Amazing speech
Well-Done
Nice review Andrew
Good info thanks.
We have Redarc DCDC1250D, Ctek with Smartpass and have settled with a Mastervolt system which instead of DC-DC, uses a Chargemate Pro 90. This limits the current to 90A from the alternator to our lithium battery. We want this so we get a really fast charge of 90A, but also limited to 90A so as not to overload our alternator. We find that being limited to 50A charging does not make the most of small journeys when we have the engine running. We decided against the Redarc and Ctek because of the limited solar input voltage. We wanted to use domestic solar panels which have much higher voltages.
Thanks for this video, amongst all the other good details on Victron vs RedArc, I have been doing a bit of research and hadn't heard of the Egon DC Hub before.
Having 2 or more panels wired in series may give you a higher voltage and longer charging day with thinner wire but , if one gets shade it will take out all panels and charging will almost stop. Parallel wired, one panel can be completly shaded and the other will still provide all the current it can. You will need bigger wire to handle the extra current if they all come together before the MPPT and a higher amp rated MPPT. Thats one benefit of Victron you can choose multiple voltage and amp configurations.
Depends on your set up. I have a panel fixed to the vehicle and a mobile blanket paralleled to the system. The vehicle stays in the shade if I don't need the charge and move the blanket around for best sun.
When having multiple panels, then making a combination of series and parallel would work nicely as well.
Andrew, you need to compare apples with apples. In your comparison with the Victron kit, GX, Cerbo etc, you need to compare that to the Manager30 and Redvision. I myself also run both, full Victron MPPT’s, DCDC, Inverter, BMV712 etc…. And in my other LC fully RedArc… Both are very good, difference for me is, if a unit break in the Victron kit I can replace only that unit, and I have a few different MPPT’s to,feed different solar panels in, like flex panels, etc. The Victron gets complicated to manage and install, but very good, the Redarc Manager30 and Redvision is very easy to install. The Redvision gives you other features like remote turning things on/off, etc…
I’ve got zero brand loyalty… more videos like this please Andrew.
Amazing video
Redarc every day of the week, Australian made quality. The redarc bms and red vision system can do all those functions eg water level monitoring, inverter control, circuit switching, battery monitoring with a much more simplified installation. If you need more than the 30a dc charge input to your batteries you can connect a bcdc in parallel additionally. If they upgrade the mppt solar input voltage one day no other product comes close
We have an Enerdrive 40amp DC-DC charger which is excellent, so I suggest they also be considered.
Renogy 50amp dc to dc. Has solar as well. I went with it over the redarc because the Renogy will charge the starting battery when the house battery is full. Thats helpful for me as the vehicle sits for long periods of time.
🙄
anyone that has OCD regarding wiring needs a dc hub......it's an awesome product!
Nothing better than Victron, THE product also for marine applications. Producing enough voltage prolongs your charging/day. I have 4 panels of 300W. Each pair linked in series goes to a separate MPPT (redundancy) and combined in parallel to the battery bank. Unicat has a very good video about this subject. Tip: your produced voltage (in my case 2x 40VOC) must be at least 3X the voltage of your battery bank to get enough hours of charging, even without full sun.
Ctek also make an excellent 20amp integrated Dc/dc charger with mppt tracking and a few other nice features.
Everything is a tradeoff. I've been going through this in my design - FOR ME - the Victron and serially connected panels (2-3 panels) means lower amps on the cable - which means you can run longer 10AGW cables to your "blanket" - If you're panels are mounted on the RTT, it's probably not a big issue. Why long cables? If you're parked in the shade, you may have to drag those portable panels/blankets a fair distance to get open sun (I live in the Pacific North West - we have trees, lots and lots of trees). Thinner cable - much cheaper, easier to store, lighter, easier to run out coil up.
Example Red Arc 160w blanket (18v 9A) 2 Panels in Parallel (18v 19A) - at 65 feet (20 meters) In series on a 10AGW wire, you will lose about 16% of your voltage. In series, you have 36v 9a and a voltage drop of about 4%. So, if you need to run long cables - serial is the way to go, which means Victron. If you mount them on the RTT in parallel or do most of your camping in wide open spaces, either will work fine.
Love the 1240D. Install and forget.
1 think i would add to that some controllers seem to work better at 24 or 48 VDC than they do when you try to use them in context 12vdc they tend to get hot at 12vdc due to it over amping and drawing more current over 12 volt than 24-48 volt which causes both cable and charge controller to get hot..
You will have to find the happy medium that the charge controller will work within without causing over heating!!!
Ive got the Ctek 250 mttp charger that allows for charging from alternator/starter battery, as well as solar. Has worked well for me.
The solar input on the Ctek 250's only allows max 23V, so your missing out on the ability to connect the panels in series.
I've got the D250SE and Smartpass 120S on one of my trucks and it works great as a DC-DC charger and battery separator.
@@lag_profil Not a big deal for me with my solar setup, and honestly, it’s not a big deal in general for these smaller systems.
You were the one leading my attention towards Victron Energy, some time ago with one of your builds.
(side note: RedArc is not available in Germany).
And now I ended up with having my Hilux equipped with a Victron MPPT.
But more important:
I'm now powering my whole house with 3x Victron MultiPlus-II 3kW + Victron 250/100 + Victron Cerbo GX + 11.2kWh LiFePo Battery from AutarcTech.
I'm completely satisfied. Great stuff.
And thanks for doing so many research and trials - so that I don't have to.
And also thank you for being such a trustworthy source of information. 😀
Andrew, Victron products are rated for usage for temperatures up to 55 degrees Celsius, just like the Ctek units. The Redarc products are rated for temperatures up to 80 degrees Celsius. I have measured temperatures in my canopy when external temperatures were 38 degrees Celsius, and inside the canopy it was 60 degrees Celsius without a roof top tent on top, and 50 degrees Celsius with a roof top tent (or shade cover) on top. The Victron products (and Ctek) would not handle these temperatures well at all and would likely fail prematurely. The chain is only as strong as it's weakest link and Redarc seems to have used either automotive or better discrete components in their products to be able to achieve these temps of 80 degrees Celsius. I'm not saying there isn't a market for Victron products, just that they will need additional cooling if the environment is likely to get hot, Redarc can handle the heat better.
Agreed, if you want longevity with power electronics, go with the equipment rated for higher temperature. It should have Electrolytic Caps with higher temperature specs, and these are the devices that always fail with time.
If you're seeing temps of 60 Degrees Celsius in your canopy presumably with a fridge inside of it as well and doing nothing to bring those temps down to a sensible level then you have more serious issues to solve than what brand to choose based merely on upper temperature thresholds. There is nothing stopping anyone that uses Victron controllers from adding a cheap computer fan behind them for peace of mind. You can even find people 3D printing mounting brackets for such fans to Victron controllers. I have several Victron controllers (very large system) and have never had the need to do anything so drastic as to add additional cooling directly to them. However, it's a non factory option if people want to do it. In the real world the 55 Degrees Celsius is not a problem if your system is designed properly with due consideration to ventilation and heat dissipation from everything running or not that is kept inside a canopy, including storage of food.
In the real world of recent past when the Redarc controllers were first designed and made, it was probably for an under bonnet installation where the second battery (lead acid based) may also be under the bonnet. However, even though the controller is rated to 80 Degree's Celsius to cope with under bonnet temperatures it was always of dubious value and more of a sales gimmick considering that lead acid based batteries have increased resistance to charge as temperature increases. Without utilization of a temperature probe to battery to throttle back output of controller you damage the battery in the long term anyway. Then there was very few deep cycle lead acid based batteries rated for under bonnet installation anyway, let alone lithium. So, we get away from installing the aux battery under bonnet and into the vehicle where it also makes sense to put the dc-dc as close as possible to the aux battery to eliminate incorrect battery voltage readings of the dc-dc due to voltage drop over cable length between main and aux batteries. I cannot even fathom why someone would need a controller rated to 80 Degrees Celsius today given the fact that they are typically now fitted to anywhere but the engine compartment. Most controllers now made are not rated to such a high temp figure, nor are they water proof because realistically there is no need for it. It matters not that Redarc "can handle the heat better" when everything around it, and connected to it in someway, cannot!. You might want to research the typical operating and charge temp range of lithium batteries, and you'll find they are around the same operating temps of controllers such as the Victron and many others. The BMS would likely shutdown the battery if it saw temps anywhere near 80 Degrees Celsius. Your fridge would cark it, and canned food would be slowly cooking by itself.
BTW, that Victron 100/20 controller Andrew is holding will happily run all day at it's max output (20 amps 282 watts or so) achieved by over paneling by a couple of hundred watts of extra solar and it draws what it can to it's rating and dissipates heat well. The Redarc units in my opinion, are outdated, too expensive and lack modern features. The only remaining reason someone might still want to buy them is because of supporting an Australian product.
@@erroneouscode Those temps I gave are just the closed canopy temps with nothing running inside of it to give additional heat, in full sun. My canopy is not permanently connected so I just view it as a load, no dc-dc charges or batteries connected inside. My dc-dc charger is installed under the vehicle tray which remains at ambient temps along with the batteries, and any other electronic gear. The ute is the powerhouse, the canopy is just a load, in more ways than one. Redarc in no way are outdated, I like to keep my installation simple and hassle free, and the operating temps of 80 degrees Celsius are a must in my view, if your going to run them in a canopy, or enclosed environment where temps are likely to be excessively high. Heat stress is a big factor on life expectancy of discrete components in the electronics world, I've seen enough Data Sheets in my time to know better.
I’m keeping an eye on my ctek as it was in my old Ute tub for 4 years and now been under my bonnet for another 4 years, so far it’s been fine but I only run a fridge and never needed to check it’s efficiency but I’m definitely curious as to how well it’s really running
If you have these ready made batteries like Blue Yeti, Jackerie does it make a difference how many Volts you get to them? Cause as far as I understand their specs most of the small ones can only handle 200W Max, VOC 12-28VDC/ 8.5A of solar input. So what would be your advice on them? Two Solar panels in series so you get the more than 12V and charge for later in the day, and then the Victron 30Amp MPPT controller then to a 30 Amp DC-2-DC charger and then get it into this kind of battery. Or maybe it doesn't worth the hassle (cause they have built in MPPTs) and just plug in the solar panel straight to the battery?
Nice, concise & precise. Thanks for publishing it. Good grief, how do you cope with the comments experts, who don't actually watch the videos! And I didn't know DCDC fanboys existed. I will have to put a cover over my little blue boxes so they don't see them.
What do you think of simple systems such as jackery used as the main
I’ve installed a couple of systems now and basically run a redarc charger and a Victron smart shunt and it works great. Great products, maybe someone should combine the pair 🤷♂️
That is a very good combo. Good value, works well, and a simple solution.
@@4xoverland yep. Wired up efficiently, my little 50ah amptron runs, fridge, charges drones, phones, cams etc. Being smart with power usage, I never come close to running out of power. Great efficient products.
@@barry422 yeah i can get 50ah to last a week sometimes.
Good stuff but have a look at the new Redarc battery monitor. Just installed one and it is so simple. Actually replaced a Victron...
Hi Andrew. Does the EGON Hub come with wiring instructions for Victron, could only see Redarc on diagram you showed.
Great 2 have two choices it boils down to price tho and availability that's a big thing in my book
If only the Victron had a combo unit (eg dc and solar)! Have run both in my build, and am now only running victron units - the app/support/updates is just second to none
Seperate chargers are actually better for efficiency.
And if you add the prices together of 2 seperate units, it’s the same as buying a dcdc that has mppt solar built in
If your worried about the shading of lower voltage panels when connected in series dropping the output voltage, ditch the 22V panels and go for newer 42V panels and connect them in parallel, this solves the shading of one panel issue as you will still be generating higher voltage from the other panel not in the shade
I mean yeah they are both good reputable brands. But like you said, you have been fortunate enough to be given these products. Before someone makes a purchase based on these I'd definitely consider throwing Enerdrive products into the mix... In my opinion the best products on the market.
But I understand why it's not included in your little comparison.
Hi Andrew, What are your thoughts on Projecta and Kickass 25A dual input (solar+alternator) chargers. On paper, the specs are sufficient for my needs. Is there a significant difference between these units and the Redarc 25A?
According to my Victron shunt, I see 50-51 amps from my Redarc BCDC1250 all the time. I'm running a 220A alternator so maybe your alternator isn't producing enough to see max output?
Just installed your exact set up, but don't know what to set all the voltages at on the Bluetooth app for the two 30a chargers. No one in my state does either. I found someone 600mi away, in another state, so that's what I may have to do.
here in california, i've never heard of redarc, but Victron does the job very well
Here’s something you might not know. Redarc BCDC 50 can only charge for a max time of 2 hours strait (this is deep in the fine print)
Literally cuts out after two hours strait. Multiple channels have tested this and proved it to be true. Not an issue with the 40!
Get the 40 if going redarc
Thanks Daniel. I am about to buy and you saved me from wasting money.
What channels have shown that?
@@justasix8815 here’s one ua-cam.com/video/ZNvIV8X3CGc/v-deo.html
Redarc addressed this in a 2021 model update.
Have you tested the new renogy dc to dc 50 amp / solar mppt ? No one has done a installed and tested video yet 😢
Andrew - I would love to know your thoughts on portable generators like Ecoflo, Bluetti, Anker Powerhouse 767, Yeti Goal Zero and Jackery. Seems to be the wave of the future with overlanding here in the USA. Also, it is much more digestible for newbies like me. Thanks!
@@DMSVICAU No mate, these are all battery packs he's talking about. He made a mistake saying generator
Does the victron still have a voltage limit input. My guess is you couldnt have 4x 25v panels in series or inputting 100v into it ?
Any feedback on CETEK?
I just learned so much my brain hurts. In a good way. Great video.
It is true that the voltage stays high enough to be useful if you wire panels in series, BUT: if the output from the panels is not exactly equal (due to differences in panels, differences in orientation or differences in irradiation due to clouds), the total output power will be greater if you wire them in parallel. This is because the (open circuit) voltage of solar panels is more or less constant, it's the current that varies with the amount of sunlight hitting them. So, in short: If the panels are exactly equal, if they are oriented in exactly the same direction and there are no clouds: You are right. If one of those criteria is not met, you are better off wiring them in parallel. If not, the time you 'loose' because of the lower voltage will be more than compensated for by the higher power throughout the day. Of course, if the output voltage of your panels is on the low side, you might have no other option than to wire them in series. The Victron MPTT's need at least 5V above the battery voltage in order to start. Once started, 1V above battery voltage is enough. So for a 12V battery I would recommend panels with at least 18Voc (36 cells), preferably 20Voc (40 cells).
Awesome content as always
In my experience the isolated DCDC VICTRON gear gets very hot. I'm talking it will get 40 degrees above ambient, so if its 30 degrees outside it will hit 70 degrees. 70 degrees is its max temperature and will de-rate continuously up to that temperature. From what I have been told the non isolated version is more efficient.
The user interface on the Victron Gear good and the ability to control through Bluetooth is also very nice. If you go Victron you could go get a cheap house panel with a higher open circuit voltage and avoid way more costly 12V /24V panels in series or parallel. I'm curious of how much more energy you would actually capture putting two panels in series vs parallel. I'd hypothesis that it may not make an appreciable difference keeping in mind the pros and cons of series vs parallel solar panel configurations.
You have to keep in mind also that the REDARC gear is also submersion rated / unlike the Victron gear. It also takes up a much smaller footprint and is way easier to tuck away somewhere.
What exactly is the EGON achieving other than a distribution panel with some LED blown fuse indicators ? My assumption its a faster to install maybe ?
Also keep in mind that some lithium batteries do have internal shunts that do do capacity monitoring, which may mean you don't need a Victron shunt / gage, although they work well from what I have heard.
hi can you tel me where i can get the easy as relay or is it called any thing else please would a normal relay be ok the one that goes onto the ignition wire
One important thing to remember when deciding on whether to connect your solar panels in series or parallel is this:
When connected in parallel the maximum current that the system can put out is the sum of each panels max current carrying capacity whereas when the panels are connected in series their combined max current carrying capacity is limited to the max current of a single panel seeing that all the current has to flow through every panel.
In conclusion, a parallel system might cause the NPPT controller to switch off earlier but while it is on the system is able to put out a much higher amperage (watt hours). I suspect that the difference in time that a series system stays on would not make up for its limited current carrying capacity.
A good excuse to do some testing I would say.
Also if one panel in a parallel system gets shaded you still get charge from the other panel / panels
@@ajf9034 Yes very true, I forgot about that.
Pretty sure the whole point of MPPT is to take excess volts and turn it into amps at 12v. So I don't think it's true to say a parallel system would deliver more amps.
Panels wired in parallel will deliver higher amps at lower voltage to the MPPT charge controller. Panels wired in series will deliver lower amps at higher voltage to the MPPT solar charge controller. The solar charge controller will convert either to the appropriate voltage to charge your battery bank. Lower amps at higher voltage allows the solar charge controller to run mor efficiently, delivering more power to your battery. It also allows for the wiring between the panels and the solar charge controller to be smaller while still safe, which is easier to run. Having used both the solar charge controller built into a DC-DC charger and a Victron 100V|30A, the Victron is far more efficient. That said, installation is more involved. It has nothing to do with sun time, it has everything to do with the inherent efficiencies of MPPT, which work better with higher voltage.
@@jaredsimpson3798 Thanks Jared, there's no better knowledge than first hand experience! What would a shade patch partially covering one panel do to that arrangement?
the reason i dont put my panels in series is, if the shade of say, a tree, covers one panel they both drop there output, but In Parralel only the one with the shade drops there output.
yes Mr P you are correct, both are very good chargers, just one little thing = remember 47 amps are always better than 40 amps even if it means you need to pay more..... because your batteries will charge must faster even if the difference is just 5 amps ...... just one other thing = solar panels are way over rated..... you will do better if you use lithium batteries and idle your vehicle for 2 hours than using solar panels for a whole day......just saying... I am using a 150A/H Lithium Phosphate with a Redarc 50amp DC to Dc charger.....never need to use solar panels ever again....
Couple of points - I have had my 2in1 die before (dcdc and solar) combined units are a single point of failure and when they die, you are buggered. Seperate independent units allow for upgrades and redundancy. Redarc has not done anything to modify their pricing to keep up with competition, their tech has advanced but isn’t better than competitors like victron OTHER than providing a wholistic solution that locks you into their products. I dont think the dc dc from victron is more complicated to wire because you don’t need an ignition wire. I’m victron all the way now, it’s cheaper, some of the things it does is smarter, it’s not hard to do DC when you figure out wire size and fusing everything near the source. I’d love to support Aussie made but the price does not justify how much effort goes into building these things. 4wd companies like ARB and Redarc have had a captive market and have been charging excessive prices for a long time now.
Redarc does have the red vision screen so you can monitor your water level
Not the Redarc DC-DC charger. I'm not comparing the Red Vision or Manager30.
@@4xoverland well I'm saying that the victron doesn't have the cerbo screen. The Orion doesn't actually communicate with a cerbo at all, just the shunt does in the BMV-712
one potential problem with wiring solar panels in series is that if one panel gets partially shaded it lowers the output for both panels
that is true.
Appreciate the video, however you didn't talk about the Victron Orion at all.
I want to know how to make that cord
Great advice but the REDARC 2 in one system is so much more cost effective ?
Yes, and no. Depends on your needs.
Soooo, are you going to say anything about the Victron DC to DC?
It would really be interesting to see a comparison with measured results of how much more power is generated in series vs parallel and Victron vs Redarc to see the benefit. I would expect the Victron to be more efficient, but how much? It would also be interesting to hear your experience about reliability of Victron vs Redarc.
I went with the Redarc 1250d because it has everything in one package and is built to be very durable - I have it mounted under a seat rather than a purpose-built enclosure, so I wanted something that would be resistant to dirt or a minor water leak. Most of my charging comes from the alternator anyway.
My Lion Energy UT1300 has a battery level indicator, so I'm not completely blind on the charge level, but have been thinking about adding the Victron battery monitor - so thanks for that recommendation!
Higher voltages (panels connected is series) will always produce less voltage drop than lower voltages (panels connected in parallel) for the same power output, due to the I squared times R factor = power loss along the cable due to its resistance. ie: by increasing the voltage potential and decreasing the current flow, you end up with a more efficient system because it produces less heat and less losses (at least until they invent the super conductor), no matter what brand you use. That's why power transmission lines are high voltage and low current in order to reduce power loss. I^2 X R = Power loss.
I had a question about my red arc manager that was not covered in the literature, so I rang the red arc help line number on a Sunday afternoon to leave a message, expecting a call back on the Monday. Well, someone called me back that Sunday afternoon with the solution to the issue. Never had that before with any company.
Comparing a single redarc BCDC to an entire range of victron products is a little lopsided. Maybe compare a Manager 30 instead if you are going to have additional monitoring equipment with the victron in a cabin installation. Agree both are great products.
so how do you setup getting power from an alternator? or can you push the 80+ watts that they put out into those charge controlers?
ua-cam.com/video/UCLyTD4pqbg/v-deo.html 2 x 30 Amp DC/DC chargers
I can only answer for victron as is what I installed. If you buy the Isolated 18/18 or 30/30 you only need to connect it to your starter battery With a fuse. The charger will feel the generator automatically and regulate the voltage and current can only flow one way as it is isolated so you never have to worry about draining the house battery. It id simple as : starter battery-> Victron Orion-> house battery. Hope that helped
Great video! Can victron go under the bonnet?!
No just the redarc
What about the IBS DBM20 Charger? I use the IBS DBS dual battery system.
I decided to compare these two because they are probably the most well used, and both bestsellers. I did not compare them to other makes because these are the two of three that I have had personal experience of.
I’m wondering why you didn’t mention the Redarc Redvision option in this video? Seems like you halfway there with all of those products.
Have you ever used the Redvision system?
This was a comparison of two similar products. And if I mentioned the Redvision I'd then have to mention the Cerbo GX. This was never meant to be a buyers' guide. Yes. I had a Redvision in my DreamTourer. Didn't like the interface at all.
i`m sure you would love offgridtrek solar panels . they are something good
I have a Victron 30amp dcdc. Not sure if it's a Victron issue or higher amp issue.
Apart from the heat, have only ever seen 20amps and it drains the voltage at idle to 12v and turns off.
Play with the settings. The start and stop have voltage parameters. I found it confusing to start with but it seems better with lower start voltage than the stock setting. Cheers
The Orions get extremely hot so make sure it is installed in a well ventilated area, preferably on a metallic surface that acts as a heatsink. You may even have to use a small fan depending on where it is installed. Also It is imperative that the correct size guage of cable is used when wiring from alternator to Orion and from the Orion to Aux Battery to allow for voltage drop and max current flow.
With those factors in mind you should be able to achieve 28-32 amps every time.
@@12v_obsession92 thanks for the info. I'm working on a fan cooling for the 12v box.
As for cable size, I'm running 16mm2 for cable from front to dcdc and to battery including ground.
The alternator/main battery drops to 12v then the Victron cuts out, the voltage increases to 14v and Victron cuts in and repeat at idle. New 550?CCA battery and alternator plus added extra grounds on engine to battery and chassis. No change.
Great video! Need help. I am trying to do a dual battery in my 5th gen 4runner
Currently I have Xplor solar 180w on RTT charging my Jackery 1000 using victron MPPT but now I want DC-DC with solar and alternator charging
But cant find how to do it or what parts needed with victron - looking like I’ll have to go redarc and would not like to if possible.
Please help thank you
Victron do not have a combined alternator/solar charger. But keep them separate! Just add a victron DC-DC charger for alternator charging.
@@4xoverland Would I then take the pos & neg from the the mppt and wire them into the same pos neg ports of the victron dcdc that the alternator is wired to as well?
Or have the mppt go straight to my aux battery
And also have the dcdc separate going also to aux battery not combing the wires at all.?
Thank you so much for your response
The biggest advantage with seperate dc dc and solar, is when you have solar on the roof while driving. dc dc wont sleal the solar! Especially advantageous when towing a van.
Can you install the Victron in the engine bay like Redarc?
No. But neither should be fitted there. The high temperatures will decrease efficiency. And by a lot!
I must say. You need to take over David Attenborough's Voiceovers
Victron makes some really nice stuff, they have years of experience in commercial installations, Redarc is great and some is still made in Australia, unfortunately they have now shipped to manufacturing in China so there is no need for their BIG price premium as other brands have caught up in technology / reliability,
Doesn't the REDARC Redvision do the same as the Victron Cervo GX?
It does, but I'd argue victron does it better (imo) and at $500 it's a very good solution. Vs the manager30 at $3000 and your limited to 30A charging.... all in one solutions rarely do all things well.
@@Sethjxl not only that, victron offer the cerbero software for free which can be installed on a $100 raspberry Pi
@@Sethjxl Do you need to have the REDARC Manager30 too, if you wish to use the REDARC Redvision?
I personally used a Safiery 48v system combined with Victron gear. It is unquestionably the best gear.
Victron is BY FAR the best available at the moment - that is why the top dogs are all using them in their builds - like Safiery!. Sure, more expensive, but buy once, by right and no worries.....There is a MASSIVE difference in both quality, performance and customer service between many of these brands.
You should go and look at Mastervolt, Victron is well known in the vehicle industry, but Mastervolt have been building incredible products more focussed on the marine environment. There products cross into vehicles and you will see many builds using them now.
>>>Sure, more expensive, but buy once, by right and no worries
I started by ordering a Redarc DC to DC charger. It was so big, I realized there was no way it would fit in the very limited mounting space of my Arctic Fox truck camper. I then discovered the Victron Orion unit so I returned the RedArc and ordered the Victron. It has performed very well for my needs.
That makes no sense. The Redarc DC-DC is smaller than the Victron, and includes the MPPT charge controller.
Is it true that the redark 50 dc dc charger only charges for 2 hours over a 24 hour period..thanks Andrew
When the Charger is turned on, it will start ramping current from 0A up to the full
rated current, this is called Soft-Start and usually takes around 30 seconds. Once
the full rated current is reached the charger will move into Boost stage. The Boost
stage maintains a constant current until the battery voltage reaches its Absorption
Voltage.
The current in Boost stage may vary during operation in order to maintain safe
operating temperature, or to limit the difference between input and output voltages.
The Charger will then move to Absorption stage which maintains a constant voltage
level for a predetermined period of time or until the current being drawn by the
output battery drops to less than 4A for 30 seconds; after which the Charger will
enter Float stage.
Float stage maintains 13.3V (13.6V for LiFePO4) on the output battery, keeping the
battery topped up. This counteracts the battery’s self discharging or loads applied
to the battery. When the battery loses charge, the Charger will move back into the
Boost stage.
The misconception of a 2 in 24 limit comes from a couple people who don't understand they're measuring the boost and absorption stages. Battery packs can only efficiently take a high current for a limited time before the chemistry of the cells become maxed out. Pushing extra current in only creates more heat and potential damage at this point, hence the absorption phase.
The first section is a direct copy from the readily available user manual online. I'm not connected with redarc, I'm a customer who will read all of the available literature on various brands before purchase of significant cost.
@@rustymozzy i will stick with other brands .I've never had over heating issues and I get more than 2 hours charging with out it stopping charging my battery thanks..and I know how the charging system works thank you
@Grant Saywell sorry, I read your comment as a question, not as a statement.
For anyone else who has a question about the 2-hour limit, the answer is - it depends.
If you want to charge fast with no regard to the longevity of your battery bank, you can charge at high current as long as you wish with an old school non regulated battery charger. If you want to maintain a long-term reliable system, charging at high current is wastefully inefficient and ages your bank. Redarc maintain a maximum current until the bank has a level of charge, and then the charger maintains a maximum voltage. Think about drinking a bucket of water. You can probably drink a few glasses straight up, and then you're going to struggle to keep drinking at the same rate. You can then slow down and drink at a constant steady rate and work your way through the rest of the bucketful.
If your battery bank requires 50+ amps for longer than a few hours at a time, you either need to have more charging capacity than either of these units or look into running a higher voltage battery system.
@Grant Saywell what other brands, please?
I don't think you've done Redarc justice by disregarding their TVMS and Redvision.
In that case, I have also done hundreds of other dc-dc chargers a diservice too. This was a comparison between two similar products. It does not try and provide a buyers guide to DC-DC chargers as a whole.
@@4xoverland your video is comparing Victron vs Redarc?
My video is comparing their DC-DC chargers. Not their other products. Add the Redvision, then I must add the CerboGX. When would it end? When is enough?
Redarc do have the redvision controller and monitor screen
And so do Victron. This was a comparison between two similar products. It does not try and provide a buyers guide to DC-DC chargers as a whole.
Odd you didn’t mention the manager30 or the red vision system
I'm guessing as it's a competitor to his egon hub.
@@justasix8815 manager 30 would most likely be useable with his hub, comes from redarc with a shunt and an AC input
Because this is a comparison between two specific DC-DC chargers. The Manager 30 is not a Egon competitor. The Manager is a switcher. The EGON is a fuse hub.
Thanks Andrew for the run down. However the critical factor besides the total input voltage to a MPPT is the maximum power it will handle. You touched on the overheating in placement but over powering from a PV array is deadly. So if the spec sheet says 50W input max. , then forcing 100W into the device is a recipe for disaster !
Not sure who installed the Egon hub at 9:30, but thin core cable outer insulting looks pretty untidy…….however still fully functional I’m guessing
That was my own installation in progress. By looking at the cables ties unfastened, it should have been obvious for such a well trained eye as yours.
That's surprising if REDARC doesn't cater for percentage monitoring which you need for lithium batteries
Why with their lithium profile?
In my opinion Victron is far better. Probability of two seperate units failing at the same time is less than one Redarc unit failing both solar and dc-dc battery charger
And they age faster as hotter the get… for life expectancy it’s bette to run a 50A rated system with 40A or 47A instead of 40A related System with 42A.
Great products, but I'm done with them until they give us the ability to manually switch alternator charging on and off rather than using voltage trigger that you can't bypass.
For this reason alone, I've moved to a renogy 60a charger with a victron mppt.
Well, install a simple relay on the blue trigger wire. Leave the wire connected to allow the unit to run as per usual, use the switch to disconnect the wire, and effectively tell the charger not to use the main battery/alternator as a supply source.
Great point there. Voltage triggered switching is no longer relevant with Lithium battery technology and this feature should be done away with or at least made optional. In fact for most purposes all that would be required is switching with the ignition.
@rustymozzy this is added complexity and poins of failure that shouldn't be needed. A trigger input is such a simple system, the redarc actually has it, however once the signal stops, the charging keeps going until voltage drops to 12.4v (which is not a full battery).
@Sethjxl the redarc BMS 30 has options to select different voltages or to use the trigger wire. If you want the ability to switch more things in a unit, you need to upgrade to a better unit. If the basic system has basic functions, and you add all of the advanced functions, you've built an advanced unit that necessitates a higher cost. A relay on a trigger wire or a volt sense switch would allow you to switch remotely without adding redvision and associated costs.