And the .50 Alaskan.... That one is the sammi certified one. ( Was the 450 alaskan ever certified? I haven't heard anything about it except for another UA-camr talking about the .50 Alaskan which was the better performing successor of the .450 alaskan.)
I've owned a 348 for about 15 years and reload for it and the barnes 220gr original bullet at about 2300fps is the bomb for elk in the timber here in oregon!
Got several of those model 71 rifles in 348win, 348 Ackley Improved, and 450 Fuller. The model 71 rifle itself is pure class and quality and its more than a brush gun. Its an legit 250-300 yard big game rifle of beauty and class. If your fortunate to own and use one you're an person of fine taste. Its kind of the hi point of the american lever action.
My friend has a .348 Win, and it is a very hard hitting cartridge. You don’t need much more gun East of the Mississippi. Black bear, elk, moose, and the biggest deer! The round tipped bullets do limit the range of course. I tried to buy his rifle, and he just looked at me like I’d landed from Mars! He didn’t even humor me with a “No”.
I have a model 71 in 348 and use choice ammunitions 200grain aframe load. It takes down anything with that load and is flatter than you would think. Definitely the finest levergun made
Dad had one back in the early 60. My brothers got to shoot and hunt with, but he sold it before i was old enough to shoot it, let alone hunt with it. Sure wish it was still in the family's hands.
The model 71 was the favorite of Winchester Sharpshooter Herb Parsons. He is very worth looking up! He made all the trick shots in the movie ‘Winchester 73’ with it. His rifle is in the Remington museum in Cody. I have my grandfathers model 71 from around 1948. He had it mounted with a side scope. A Lyman Alaskan. The mounts were well done by a company in San Antonio Tx.
Great stuff always Ron. Metal detecting an old farm today I found I strange large tapered case, rimmed cartridge. I can usually ID cartridges by eye. I later IDed from my outdoor encyclopedia as a .348. Immediately came here for more info.
The way I have found to minimize flinching is to install a quality recoil pad on my rifle. Some people think it makes them a sissy or that it takes away from the look of the gun. I think my marksmanship makes up for any of those things. Especially when I shoot better than any of those with me that don’t have a recoil pad.
Another great video, Ron. Love your style BTW. My experience with the 71 almost brings me tears, four decades later. I had gone to a local gunshow with a few hundred bucks to spend. An older guy was walking around with a beautiful, original 71 slung over his shoulder with a For Sale sign on it. He showed it to me, but he wanted $600 for it; more than I had on me that day. I still consider that fine rifle "one that got away"!
My namesake, Ron, I'm a retired green beret, aged 76. I agree that you are a well balanced commentator, an experienced shooter & I enjoy your videos. Thanks!
I have my grandfather's and he loved it when dad got it he loved it now I have it but ammo is difficult to get. I have taken 2 deer with it, great power. 3030 was what I usually carried, now my knees are bad so I hunt the shore line in my boat and set up so I'm not walking a lot and I'm now using a 270 Winchester so I can reach out to 3 or 4 hundred yards. Great fun.
The Italian M91 (1891) Carcano rifles in 6.5x52 were gain twist. It was considered a state secret for a while. It turned out to provide no real advantage, so the next rifle (Mod. 1938 in 7.35x51) had normal rifling.
I grew up reading Jack O'Connor. Everything was .270. A good cartridge of course, but not the only one out there. I appreciate your unbiased and widely fair advice. I am admittedly a 30.06 guy but know there's plenty of good rounds out there. I know the best gun is the gun you shoot the best.
About 40 years ago I saw several 348 Winchester Model 71s on one table at a gun show in Montana. The seller said, "you look like you should own one," and I said, I love everything about these rifles but the recoil. And I moved on. And that's a legitimate consideration if you are considering hunting with this rifle.
I spent my savings and with Dad's help I got a Remington 721 in .30-06 the summer I turned 13. It was a light rifle that shot well but was just too much for me then and I started flinching. So, my notion is that too much gun can lead to bad habits. @@thedirtygot9570
Gain twist was i believe invented in England, Pope improved on the idea. 20mm on up banded barrels in the military use gain twist also, it works very well, for lead and banded bullets, so it is a limited application, but so is very fast twist or very slow twist. Just saying, its not dead, just another tool. Personally, if i was shooting something like RUM with heavy bullets, i would use gain twist , to gain speed and reduce copper fouling. Gain twist may also help with cup and core separation for long heavy bullets at high speed. Just saying, it has its applications.
A Model 71 Deluxe, which is what the famous trick shooter Herb Parsons used when he stood off to the side and behind Jimmi Stewart to shoot holes in the coins tossed which by movie magic was shot by the Model 73 used by Stewart. Look up; Herb Parsons Winchester Model 71 from "Winchester '73" | The Gun Vault #6 - Cody Firearms Museum... Utube
I hunt with a 71. You have to handhold your own ammo for 348. It's hard to find loaded ammo. Brass can be a little bit of a problem. But you can order a lot of different bullets online. As far as ballistics it's basically a 358 winchester. With a round nose bullet. It's around a 200 yard rifle. It's not known for being flat shooting. But definitely gets the job done. If you can find one. It's a great rifle if you like a excellent lever action. That is much more powerful than a 30-30, 45-70 etc. The actio is smoother than anything else. There are three problems with 71s. First very hard to find and expensive. Second is ammo finding and cost. Third is it's hard to use with a scope. They usually are found with peep sights. You'll find peep sights are fast, naturally accurate and help make up for not perfect eyesight. Winchester 71s were state of the art in lever action a century ago. State of the art half a century ago was the Winchester model 88. Perfect for those who have to have pointed bullets.
Ron someday could you give any info you can get on the .338-06 A-Square reloading, stretching the neck out, annealing brass, powders and speeds, etc. etc. Thanks Ron!
Regarding Danny's question about the 243 Winchester, this is almost a universal recommendation for new hunters and has been for many years. Personally, I don't care for it. Yes, it works. Yes, it's easy for new hunters to use. Yes, it has a long track record of success. But it never really satisfied me when I had one. For one thing, I never had a deer DRT. I always had to track anywhere from 20 yards to 100 yards. In heavy timber that gets to be work. My brothers during that same period had several DRT with their 30-06. Naturally, I switched caliber. A few years later, a good friend loaned me his 6.5x55 Swede. I was actually favorably impressed by its performance and low (relatively) recoil. Since the 6.5 Creedmoor is essentially a short action 6.5x55, I do recommend one or the other when I get asked the same question. However, I have long been a fan of "large" and "heavy". Quite frankly I absolutely LOVE the 358 Winchester. No, you can't reach waaaay out there, but you do have a decent max range, and I don't have to track.
Hey, as a boy, I followed old Jack, religiously, so, of course my first High powered rifle was a Remington model 700BDL in ,270 Winchester my thought was to buy a box of some Remington .270W 130 grain Bronze point Ammo, fire it and reload the cases, So I bought the rifle, installed a Leupold 2-7 zoom scope in Leupold rings and a Redfield JR base, Old Jack would have said that I should have purchased a Winchester model 70 but the Department store I was working in at the time, decided to get out of firearms to sell more profitable golfing stuff. This meant that with the closeout prices + my employee discount, they sold me the Remington 700BDL for only $160 and the Scope and rings for only $300. I did buy the cartridges for less than $5.00 and 4 boxes of Remington primed brass for only $1 each I found the sales reciept the other day so I know how much the actual prices were. The following day, I bought a RCBS Rock Chucker press and a set of .270 Dies, Remington primers 2-1Lb canisters of H 4831 Powder and some Speer 130 grain bullets. As my first foray into reloading, I just followed Old Jacks favorite load of 62 grains of 4831 Powder in back of the 130 grain bullets. Big Mistake as the Hodgkins surplus H4831 powder Jack purchased at the end of WWII was not as hot as the H4831 I purchased in 1965! I learned an important lesson that day USE A RELOADING MANUAL AND WORK UP FROM MINUMIM!! The load that Jack recommended resulted in my taking the rifle in to Ackley's gun shop and watching Porter actually us a 12 inch section of electrical conduit slipped over the bolt handle to unstick the bolt. Porter was kind enough to check out the bolt, Action, and even the beddinng to make sure it was OK to shoot. Despite the Mistreatment. everything was fine, including the headspace. Turns out that he and my dad were mustered out of the service together and so he said "I can't let Gayle's son take this kind of a risk so he took the time to teach me how to safely work up a load using his speer reloading manual and his Ohler chronograph. Porter was a firm believer in using a chrono for reloading. He said "if you really know how to use a Mic, you can check with that but it is easy to make a mistake. His idea was to fire a factory round and subtract 50FPS to establish a safe loading level, then use that as your maximum load, for that firearm, then check it against the reloding manual.just to be certain, then never exceed the lower of the two velocities. My .270 likes Barnes 130 grain @3050 Fps and 110 grain Barnes at 3490FPS and either load will shoot.5 to .7 3 shot groups at 100 yards. I use both the Chrono and a micrometer to check my loads. I love that old Remington. I find sitting around the campfire with that nicely figured Monte Carlo stock with full checkering, comparing it to the plastic stocks of the other hunters gives me a warm feeling. I even like the white line stock spacers. I have several firearms that I could use for deer and antelope hunting but still find myself using that Remington BDL every year.
Speaking of hand loads, I got back into reloading a few years ago and I decided to be modern and used a phone app to record my load data. A few months later I broke my phone and lost my data. The apps are nice, But if you have important information on your phone be sure to back up to the "cloud". It might also be a good idea to keep an old-fashion hard-copy notebook.
Ron I for one, would definitely watch if you do a reloading show. Just one bit of advice that may pertain just for me. keep it cost-effective. What I mean is don't show or use a unit that costs as much as some cars do. There is a channel that does reloading, and he is very intelligent . Sometimes, he has some good information, BUT a lot of the time, he uses some outrageously expensive reloading tools. The average guy ( me ) is not going to buy a press and attachments and spend upwards of 20k dollars. I like his show, but when he does that stuff, I just turn it off. I look forward to your show when you make one. I agree with the guy who gave you the compliment comparing you and Jack. I think he is spot on! Great show as always Ron. Oh ya see you in Nashville soon.
Definitely would be interested in a hand loading course. I shoot a 7mm-08 slot right now and would love to step up to a 280AI but the lack of factory options and the introduction of the 7mm prc (which probably won’t help that situation) has kept me from it so far…
6.5 carcano rifle are gain twist iirc. This is probably what made their Garrison or right control load effective. As I recall it was a 156 grain bullet but the core was made up of multiple segments so as it passed through the game twist barrel it probably fragmented into multiple projectiles. I've also heard they had a 120 grain armor piercing load at about 2600 ft per second. That might have made an interesting assault rifle cartridge.
I'd like a reloading pod cast!!! Specially intermediate to advanced. Like picking a good load for my 339-06 load or a different powder on handgun loads like H110! Working up powder speeds to good load?!?!
@Danie. Look at a 7mm-08 as well. 6mm Creedmoor "replaces" 243Win allowing you to shoot higher BC heavier bullets at longer ranges. Tikka T3, Ruger American, CZ 600, or Bergara are really good options. Look at a minimum 22" barrel.
Being from Oklahoma I completely agree with the .243. You'll rarely need anything more powerful unless you get lucky enough to draw a tag for an elk hunt on Fort Sill. I've shot many Oklahoma whitetails with mine (from 50 yards all the way out to around 300) and have only ever had one deer run more than 20 yards after a well placed shot. Most don't make it more than 10 yards.
Hi Ron. You were reading a comment from “User”. He thought the lead nose of his bullet may have been coming apart. You said that in today’s bullet manufacturing process the quality control was very good and it was unlikely. I bought 5, 5 round packs of 12 ga. 00 buckshot to sight in my new red dot sight and expected to have enough to hunt with afterwards. I was having problems with printing on my target paper. When I checked the paper, there was only the wad hole in my paper. I couldn’t believe it. Come to find out by checking all of my new ammo, at least 1 of the five shells in each pack had no buckshot in them. One 5 pack had 3 shells with no buckshot in the. I was using a pump so the gun functioned fine, it just had an unusually soft recoil. What was really unusual was the fact that it was a MAJOR manufacturer. You know, the one with the box with the super X. Andy
I’m a big believer in gain twist rifling! In fast 22’s and heavy for caliber bullets…if you’re into speed and gaining all you can then g-twist for the win!
Gain twist barrels also flatten out the recoil impulse and makes it a little easier on the shoulder,the Italian Carcano is a good place to look for 6.5 gain twist barrels.Mannlicher used them on some of their guns and made them for the Italians also. They are sweet to shoot and very accurate but harder to make and thats why they are not found very often.
The Model 71 lever action is a wonderful gun. The 348 Win is a very hard-kicking round, particularly with the correct ammo; for some reason, most ammo is 200 grain when the optimum round is the 240 grain bullet which one must unfortunately reload. But will take down almost any US game.
I believed all but purposely said almost so I wouldn't have to argue with some moron who claimed wild T Rexes still roamed in Montana. From it's kick I would find it hard to believe anything could withstand a bullet proper to that rifle. @@RonSpomerOutdoors
Any reloading info from you would be of interest. I've reloaded rifle and pistol for nearly 20-years, but review is always helpful. Thanks for considering.
Humble is a great attribute, being open minded willing to listen to others opinions means you continue to learn. No it all people think they have nothing to learn?
Regarding Bore Sighting a rifle by looking down the bore, you can do it with some lever actions also. Marlin and Henry rifles allow easy removal of the lever by taking out 1 screw, then the bolt can be removed just as easy. Once this is done you bore sight the same as you would with a bolt action. I'm sure Ron knows this but must have slipped his mind during the video. Agree with Ron 100% in that there is no reason to spend money on a special tool nor to pay somebody to do the job.
Hi Ron, Would-be .356 hunter here again. Just a quick question. Do you think that with the new breed of bullets, the spirits of Elmer and Jack (and probably a few others) rest a bit more friendly these days? I'd hate to think they are still cussing each other out for all Eternity. Great topic, the M71/.348. My New Years resolution is to get out there a bit more in the field and the gun shows. Thanks for all you do. You really are every bit as knowledgeable and approachable as any of the big time gun writers.
I've really no idea how Jack and Elmer's spirits might be interacting, but were they still here I suspect they'd disagree about the new bullets as much as the old. Seems more a personality clash than substantive one, though.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors A quick note - I would nix the reloading channel. I do agree that your words behind it would carry it far, but wouldn't you just be reinventing the wheel? Others have covered most of the popular calibers, and you wouldn't get too many hits on the unpopular ones except for gun nuts like myself who would really be interested in what could be done with a .25-35, or a 7mm Sharpe and Harte, or maybe a .577 Tyrannosaur really is more versatile than a .458 Win Mag. But you would need rifles in all the calibers you are touting at the moment, and good luck with that! So it's a case of "love the speaker, but question the topic".
As for the gentleman from Kentucky,I agree with your assessment of the bullet,but imagine that he chose the 26 Nosler because is hunting over some pretty big fields.I dont know how many different loads there are for this round,Ive never researched it.The thing about very specialized set ups is, occasionally you get close shots.I believe he learned a valuable lesson here.If the shots are close with such a high velocity,you either have to pick your shot better or find a different style bullet.No great pearls of wisdom here,but just wanted to say that I understand why he may have chosen that particular set up.He may very well get some 500 yrd shots.
A wise man learns from his mistakes; an even wiser one also learns from the mistakes of others. An even wiser man also learns that this does not make him better than the mistaken one, juat luckier and more grateful; that's whence humility stems 😏
Gain twist is still used in 20 and 30mm Gatling canon and, from what I’m reading, in .460 s&w revolvers? I’ve heard that it’s common in rifled tank guns too, but don’t know about that. I think I once read that it was also used in the original Python .357 but I’ve never been able to confirm that.
Additional comment. Ron has a great enjoyable show. Always something interesting. Goes out of his way to not make any folks seem silly regardless how far off some of there assertions are. Jack O’Connor did not suffer fools lightly. He did not embellish his stories. He always told the truth. If he made a mistake about something or made a bad shot he told you about it. No stories about shooting running Jack Rabbits at 650 yards with a 4” barrel 44 mag. He was a better writer than anyone of his day or since IMHO and in my 71 years I’ve read them all. He did not shoot every thing with a 270 Winchester regardless of what you read on the internet. He did however take 2 grizzly bears and 11 moose with his 270. He always emphasized using the best cartridge for the task at hand and getting close enough for an ethical shot. In his “Complete Book of Rifles and Shotguns” he wrote that if he could have just one rifle to hunt the world over it would be a 375 H&H Magnum. Of course he went on to say that if he could have a second rifle it would be a 270 Winchester. No brag, just the facts!
I lived in Johannesburg for a while. They are pretty adamant that you pronounce it Joe-hannesburg when you're speaking English. But if you're speaking Afrikaans then it's Yo-hannesburg. Good people down there in South Africa.
Early Italian carcano ifles were gain twist as well. It was an early smokeless rifle, and they feared the higher speed tearing the bullets apart, but found it wasn't worth it and abandoned the concept.
From what I have read, the ablr is a bonded bullet but the lead is soft due to the low velocities it can expand at for the long range intended use. I would think the problematic results would be similar to the eldx (I know construction is different) at short vs long distance shots.
the Nosler accubond long range if you ever look on the box or they're reloading sales pitches it has a maximum speed of where it will no longer stay together it's Max Speed where it still performs to its specs is 3400 ft per second and a minimum speed of where it will perform to its specs of like 1800 ft per second I believe that will get it to expand doesn't expand is good but it does expand and loses some of its material into the target of shrapnel but anything faster then it's maximum velocity and in some cases even it's supposed maximum velocity it will start to come apart one of the books I have shows around that hit at 1800 ft per second which is mostly together just slightly expanded still has a shaft and everything and around the hit at 3,200 feet per second and is basically flat so anything beyond that is probably just going to tear it apart it's built for long range so if you aren't going to hunt long range so that it hits at the proper velocity or you're not going to like he said shoot them behind the front shoulder not at too much of an angle then you're better off with some other type of bullet the good one is the eldx from horn today but it can have similar problems if it's going to fast and the new rounds from Remington loaded with a spear bullet which is pretty much the same concept but does tend to stay together a little bit better at higher velocities but all in all you can look through different rounds one good one that I found that seems to produce kind of the best of both worlds between a monolithic and a standard bonded bullet is a federal trophy Bond tip bullet or tip trophy Bond it has a Lead Core but a long copper Shank in the Lead Core is smaller and only in the front of the bullet but it's balanced well it has a non-melting high temperature polymer tip on it is boat tailed and holds holds 90 to 96% of its mass because of all the copper but you still get the same shock effect and some more energy transfer and fragmentation from the lead that's in the bullet yet still have a long copper base to continue on through and to keep the bullet together and we'll still function at long range how long I'm not exactly sure depending on the velocity depends on the rifle you have a 26 Nosler who knows you could be good out to 600 yards or you could only be good out to 300 yards who knows depends on what part of you use and you know whatever now they have put out rounds for reloading but to my knowledge it only goes down to 27 caliber so you'd have to buy Factory ammunition which is still pretty good from Federal you might want to look into that❤
Thanks for the correction, Gypsy. Alexander Pope was an 18th century English poet. Apparently my ancient college English Lit studies emerged from the fog on this one.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors A video on Pope and his work would be very entertaining I'm sure. There is a picture of Harry Pope and Phil Sharpe on the opening pages of his book, " the Complete Guide to Handloading". So I was curious and did some research...wow worth the digging. A video on the Phil Sharpe manual would be equally great. Going through his 1937 work(with load data) most of it is very relevant to this day. Thanks for the great vids you do!
My model 71 was made in 1936. It has a very low serial number. I love the rifle, and the .348 cartridge is great. I wish it was more widely available.
Mine has a13xx number most accurate lever gun I have ever seen and I took it to South Africa impressive results
I place my vote of "yes" to reloading videos! I'm looking forward to reloading myself. Finally I am starting to see primers!!!
The .348's biggest claim to fame here in Alaska is it is the parent case of the 450 alaska. That is a hard hitting round.
And the .50 Alaskan.... That one is the sammi certified one. ( Was the 450 alaskan ever certified? I haven't heard anything about it except for another UA-camr talking about the .50 Alaskan which was the better performing successor of the .450 alaskan.)
I've owned a 348 for about 15 years and reload for it and the barnes 220gr original bullet at about 2300fps is the bomb for elk in the timber here in oregon!
Grizzly cartridges has a loading of a 200 grain bullet going 2700. That is a hard hitting lever action.
Got several of those model 71 rifles in 348win, 348 Ackley Improved, and 450 Fuller. The model 71 rifle itself is pure class and quality and its more than a brush gun. Its an legit 250-300 yard big game rifle of beauty and class. If your fortunate to own and use one you're an person of fine taste. Its kind of the hi point of the american lever action.
348 improved..that sounds interesting!
Call my Model 71 a Hi-Point again, I dare you. 😂
@@Michael-cv1uvI sure butchered that didn't I😂😂😂. I'll never muddle that up that way again. Sorry.
My God Ron How In The World Did I Miss This Video 😇❤️😇 The Model 71 in .348 Is One of My Favorite Rifles I Own
My friend has a .348 Win, and it is a very hard hitting cartridge.
You don’t need much more gun East of the Mississippi. Black bear, elk, moose, and the biggest deer!
The round tipped bullets do limit the range of course.
I tried to buy his rifle, and he just looked at me like I’d landed from Mars! He didn’t even humor me with a “No”.
Yes please, I would be very interested in a hand loading course!!
Buffalo Bore loads a 250 grain bonded bullet at 2250 or higher velocity for the 348 Winchester.
I have a model 71 in 348 and use choice ammunitions 200grain aframe load. It takes down anything with that load and is flatter than you would think. Definitely the finest levergun made
Dad had one back in the early 60. My brothers got to shoot and hunt with, but he sold it before i was old enough to shoot it, let alone hunt with it. Sure wish it was still in the family's hands.
Thanks Ron
The model 71 was the favorite of Winchester Sharpshooter Herb Parsons. He is very worth looking up! He made all the trick shots in the movie ‘Winchester 73’ with it. His rifle is in the Remington museum in Cody. I have my grandfathers model 71 from around 1948. He had it mounted with a side scope. A Lyman Alaskan. The mounts were well done by a company in San Antonio Tx.
Great stuff always Ron. Metal detecting an old farm today I found I strange large tapered case, rimmed cartridge. I can usually ID cartridges by eye. I later IDed from my outdoor encyclopedia as a .348. Immediately came here for more info.
I have my grandfather's 348. Shoots really nice needs restored
I would love to see your reloading videos Ron!
The way I have found to minimize flinching is to install a quality recoil pad on my rifle. Some people think it makes them a sissy or that it takes away from the look of the gun. I think my marksmanship makes up for any of those things. Especially when I shoot better than any of those with me that don’t have a recoil pad.
Would be interested by those reloading videos. Great job Ron! Richard from eastern Canada
I love that I think I know something about guns just for Ron to take me to take me to school with every podcast.
Another great video, Ron.
Love your style BTW.
My experience with the 71 almost brings me tears, four decades later.
I had gone to a local gunshow with a few hundred bucks to spend. An older guy was walking around with a beautiful, original 71 slung over his shoulder with a For Sale sign on it.
He showed it to me, but he wanted $600 for it; more than I had on me that day.
I still consider that fine rifle "one that got away"!
I want to see you hand load ... always good to watch a master
same
Same
My namesake, Ron, I'm a retired green beret, aged 76. I agree that you are a well balanced commentator, an experienced shooter & I enjoy your videos. Thanks!
I have my grandfather's and he loved it when dad got it he loved it now I have it but ammo is difficult to get. I have taken 2 deer with it, great power. 3030 was what I usually carried, now my knees are bad so I hunt the shore line in my boat and set up so I'm not walking a lot and I'm now using a 270 Winchester so I can reach out to 3 or 4 hundred yards. Great fun.
As ben said, received my copy of 7MM today as well. Thanks Ron.
The Italian M91 (1891) Carcano rifles in 6.5x52 were gain twist. It was considered a state secret for a while. It turned out to provide no real advantage, so the next rifle (Mod. 1938 in 7.35x51) had normal rifling.
A hand loading course would be awesome!
I grew up reading Jack O'Connor. Everything was .270. A good cartridge of course, but not the only one out there. I appreciate your unbiased and widely fair advice. I am admittedly a 30.06 guy but know there's plenty of good rounds out there. I know the best gun is the gun you shoot the best.
Remember TANSTAAFL. An acronym:
There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.
About 40 years ago I saw several 348 Winchester Model 71s on one table at a gun show in Montana. The seller said, "you look like you should own one," and I said, I love everything about these rifles but the recoil. And I moved on. And that's a legitimate consideration if you are considering hunting with this rifle.
I started shooting my dads 348 at 12 years old and didn’t see much difference from my 30-06 I got when I was 10
I spent my savings and with Dad's help I got a Remington 721 in .30-06 the summer I turned 13. It was a light rifle that shot well but was just too much for me then and I started flinching. So, my notion is that too much gun can lead to bad habits. @@thedirtygot9570
It was Harry Pope not Alexander. He was possibly the greatest Smith of his era. Love your pod cast.
Gain twist was i believe invented in England, Pope improved on the idea. 20mm on up banded barrels in the military use gain twist also, it works very well, for lead and banded bullets, so it is a limited application, but so is very fast twist or very slow twist. Just saying, its not dead, just another tool. Personally, if i was shooting something like RUM with heavy bullets, i would use gain twist , to gain speed and reduce copper fouling. Gain twist may also help with cup and core separation for long heavy bullets at high speed. Just saying, it has its applications.
Looking at a 6.5 300 weatherby. So definitely interested in reloading ❤❤❤
Leverrevoultion ballistic tips bend a bit on side gate when loading.
Hand feed first round into chamber for max accuracy 😊
My father and i have 3 33 winchesters in 1886 and a 45-90. My uncle has a model 71 and a 1886 in 40-65
Smith and Wesson has gain twist in the 460 magnum!
Always good information Ron. Thanks from Mike.
A version of gain-twist rifling was used in Minie-ball rifle-muskets.
Just got my signed copy of “7mm Cartridges from Around the World.” Couldn’t be more excited. Thank you Ron for all you do.
Thanks Ben!
It should get to you soon. Let me know if it does not. @@FranzAntonMesmer
A Model 71 Deluxe, which is what the famous trick shooter Herb Parsons used when he stood off to the side and behind Jimmi Stewart to shoot holes in the coins tossed which by movie magic was shot by the Model 73 used by Stewart. Look up; Herb Parsons Winchester Model 71 from "Winchester '73" | The Gun Vault #6 - Cody Firearms Museum... Utube
I hunt with a 71. You have to handhold your own ammo for 348. It's hard to find loaded ammo. Brass can be a little bit of a problem. But you can order a lot of different bullets online.
As far as ballistics it's basically a 358 winchester. With a round nose bullet. It's around a 200 yard rifle. It's not known for being flat shooting. But definitely gets the job done.
If you can find one. It's a great rifle if you like a excellent lever action. That is much more powerful than a 30-30, 45-70 etc. The actio is smoother than anything else.
There are three problems with 71s. First very hard to find and expensive. Second is ammo finding and cost. Third is it's hard to use with a scope. They usually are found with peep sights. You'll find peep sights are fast, naturally accurate and help make up for not perfect eyesight.
Winchester 71s were state of the art in lever action a century ago.
State of the art half a century ago was the Winchester model 88. Perfect for those who have to have pointed bullets.
Yeah I know of it and also the 358 that replaced it.
Ron someday could you give any info you can get on the .338-06 A-Square reloading, stretching the neck out, annealing brass, powders and speeds, etc. etc. Thanks Ron!
We love you Ron! ❤️
Gain twist was used by Sam Colt, The Italian Carano designers, ans currently by Smith and Wesson in the 460 magnum revolver. Hope this helps.
Regarding Danny's question about the 243 Winchester, this is almost a universal recommendation for new hunters and has been for many years. Personally, I don't care for it. Yes, it works. Yes, it's easy for new hunters to use. Yes, it has a long track record of success. But it never really satisfied me when I had one. For one thing, I never had a deer DRT. I always had to track anywhere from 20 yards to 100 yards. In heavy timber that gets to be work. My brothers during that same period had several DRT with their 30-06. Naturally, I switched caliber. A few years later, a good friend loaned me his 6.5x55 Swede. I was actually favorably impressed by its performance and low (relatively) recoil. Since the 6.5 Creedmoor is essentially a short action 6.5x55, I do recommend one or the other when I get asked the same question. However, I have long been a fan of "large" and "heavy". Quite frankly I absolutely LOVE the 358 Winchester. No, you can't reach waaaay out there, but you do have a decent max range, and I don't have to track.
Hey, as a boy, I followed old Jack, religiously, so, of course my first High powered rifle was a Remington model 700BDL in ,270 Winchester my thought was to buy a box of some Remington .270W 130 grain Bronze point Ammo, fire it and reload the cases, So I bought the rifle, installed a Leupold 2-7 zoom scope in Leupold rings and a Redfield JR base, Old Jack would have said that I should have purchased a Winchester model 70 but the Department store I was working in at the time, decided to get out of firearms to sell more profitable golfing stuff. This meant that with the closeout prices + my employee discount, they sold me the Remington 700BDL for only $160 and the Scope and rings for only $300. I did buy the cartridges for less than $5.00 and 4 boxes of Remington primed brass for only $1 each I found the sales reciept the other day so I know how much the actual prices were. The following day, I bought a RCBS Rock Chucker press and a set of .270 Dies, Remington primers 2-1Lb canisters of H 4831 Powder and some Speer 130 grain bullets. As my first foray into reloading, I just followed Old Jacks favorite load of 62 grains of 4831 Powder in back of the 130 grain bullets. Big Mistake as the Hodgkins surplus H4831 powder Jack purchased at the end of WWII was not as hot as the H4831 I purchased in 1965! I learned an important lesson that day USE A RELOADING MANUAL AND WORK UP FROM MINUMIM!! The load that Jack recommended resulted in my taking the rifle in to Ackley's gun shop and watching Porter actually us a 12 inch section of electrical conduit slipped over the bolt handle to unstick the bolt. Porter was kind enough to check out the bolt, Action, and even the beddinng to make sure it was OK to shoot. Despite the Mistreatment. everything was fine, including the headspace. Turns out that he and my dad were mustered out of the service together and so he said "I can't let Gayle's son take this kind of a risk so he took the time to teach me how to safely work up a load using his speer reloading manual and his Ohler chronograph. Porter was a firm believer in using a chrono for reloading. He said "if you really know how to use a Mic, you can check with that but it is easy to make a mistake. His idea was to fire a factory round and subtract 50FPS to establish a safe loading level, then use that as your maximum load, for that firearm, then check it against the reloding manual.just to be certain, then never exceed the lower of the two velocities. My .270 likes Barnes 130 grain @3050 Fps and 110 grain Barnes at 3490FPS and either load will shoot.5 to .7 3 shot groups at 100 yards. I use both the Chrono and a micrometer to check my loads. I love that old Remington. I find sitting around the campfire with that nicely figured Monte Carlo stock with full checkering, comparing it to the plastic stocks of the other hunters gives me a warm feeling. I even like the white line stock spacers. I have several firearms that I could use for deer and antelope hunting but still find myself using that Remington BDL every year.
S&W uses a gain twist barrel in the 460 S&W magnum revolvers.
Speaking of hand loads, I got back into reloading a few years ago and I decided to be modern and used a phone app to record my load data. A few months later I broke my phone and lost my data. The apps are nice, But if you have important information on your phone be sure to back up to the "cloud". It might also be a good idea to keep an old-fashion hard-copy notebook.
Ron I for one, would definitely watch if you do a reloading show. Just one bit of advice that may pertain just for me. keep it cost-effective. What I mean is don't show or use a unit that costs as much as some cars do. There is a channel that does reloading, and he is very intelligent . Sometimes, he has some good information, BUT a lot of the time, he uses some outrageously expensive reloading tools. The average guy ( me ) is not going to buy a press and attachments and spend upwards of 20k dollars. I like his show, but when he does that stuff, I just turn it off. I look forward to your show when you make one. I agree with the guy who gave you the compliment comparing you and Jack. I think he is spot on! Great show as always Ron. Oh ya see you in Nashville soon.
Thanks, and good advice Lyle. Half the idea with handloading is to save a few $, not spend more.
Definitely would be interested in a hand loading course. I shoot a 7mm-08 slot right now and would love to step up to a 280AI but the lack of factory options and the introduction of the 7mm prc (which probably won’t help that situation) has kept me from it so far…
6.5 carcano rifle are gain twist iirc. This is probably what made their Garrison or right control load effective. As I recall it was a 156 grain bullet but the core was made up of multiple segments so as it passed through the game twist barrel it probably fragmented into multiple projectiles. I've also heard they had a 120 grain armor piercing load at about 2600 ft per second. That might have made an interesting assault rifle cartridge.
I'd like a reloading pod cast!!! Specially intermediate to advanced. Like picking a good load for my 339-06 load or a different powder on handgun loads like H110! Working up powder speeds to good load?!?!
I assume you mean 338-06? Get your hands on some 210 grain Barnes ttsx and H414.
@Danie. Look at a 7mm-08 as well. 6mm Creedmoor "replaces" 243Win allowing you to shoot higher BC heavier bullets at longer ranges. Tikka T3, Ruger American, CZ 600, or Bergara are really good options. Look at a minimum 22" barrel.
MUZZLE
2560 FPS, 2910 FT/LBS --Hornady .348 Winchester Lever evolution
I’ll be your huckleberry, Carl! I have been looking at 71’s lately. I’d prefer a carbine but I could make a carbine…(although I wouldn’t do that)
Being from Oklahoma I completely agree with the .243. You'll rarely need anything more powerful unless you get lucky enough to draw a tag for an elk hunt on Fort Sill. I've shot many Oklahoma whitetails with mine (from 50 yards all the way out to around 300) and have only ever had one deer run more than 20 yards after a well placed shot. Most don't make it more than 10 yards.
Hi Ron. You were reading a comment from “User”. He thought the lead nose of his bullet may have been coming apart. You said that in today’s bullet manufacturing process the quality control was very good and it was unlikely. I bought 5, 5 round packs of 12 ga. 00 buckshot to sight in my new red dot sight and expected to have enough to hunt with afterwards. I was having problems with printing on my target paper. When I checked the paper, there was only the wad hole in my paper. I couldn’t believe it. Come to find out by checking all of my new ammo, at least 1 of the five shells in each pack had no buckshot in them. One 5 pack had 3 shells with no buckshot in the. I was using a pump so the gun functioned fine, it just had an unusually soft recoil. What was really unusual was the fact that it was a MAJOR manufacturer. You know, the one with the box with the super X.
Andy
I’m a big believer in gain twist rifling! In fast 22’s and heavy for caliber bullets…if you’re into speed and gaining all you can then g-twist for the win!
Gain twist barrels also flatten out the recoil impulse and makes it a little easier on the shoulder,the Italian Carcano is a good place to look for 6.5 gain twist barrels.Mannlicher used them on some of their guns and made them for the Italians also. They are sweet to shoot and very accurate but harder to make and thats why they are not found very often.
A great under appreciated cartridge.
Browning made a limited release of model 71 in rifle and carbine that is a very high quality product.
Reloading video... yes please 😊
Scout scope is mounted on barrel in front of action. Reaurch Jeff Cooper.
When bore sighting, always remember the turret adjustment will be backwards. If you need to go right, click left. Cheers
Yes, but easier to just watch the reticle move as you dial.
Browning also re-introduced the 71 in 348.
Great gun that doesn't require a scope. I HAD a deluxe model 71 . Sorry I don't anymore.😢
Pretty sure the irish person was asking about semi auto shotgun while they cant have semi rifle
Enjoyed the episode, and definitely interested in the reloading course.
The Model 71 lever action is a wonderful gun. The 348 Win is a very hard-kicking round, particularly with the correct ammo; for some reason, most ammo is 200 grain when the optimum round is the 240 grain bullet which one must unfortunately reload. But will take down almost any US game.
I would replace the word "almost" in your last sentence with "all."
I believed all but purposely said almost so I wouldn't have to argue with some moron who claimed wild T Rexes still roamed in Montana. From it's kick I would find it hard to believe anything could withstand a bullet proper to that rifle. @@RonSpomerOutdoors
Great cartridge and rifle, good luck finding ammo.
Any reloading info from you would be of interest. I've reloaded rifle and pistol for nearly 20-years, but review is always helpful. Thanks for considering.
Humble is a great attribute, being open minded willing to listen to others opinions means you continue to learn. No it all people think they have nothing to learn?
Regarding Bore Sighting a rifle by looking down the bore, you can do it with some lever actions also. Marlin and Henry rifles allow easy removal of the lever by taking out 1 screw, then the bolt can be removed just as easy. Once this is done you bore sight the same as you would with a bolt action. I'm sure Ron knows this but must have slipped his mind during the video. Agree with Ron 100% in that there is no reason to spend money on a special tool nor to pay somebody to do the job.
Thanks for reminding us of this feature, user. I had, indeed, overlooked it.
Interested in the reloading video series. It's something i've always wanted to learn how to do
Hi Ron, Would-be .356 hunter here again. Just a quick question. Do you think that with the new breed of bullets, the spirits of Elmer and Jack (and probably a few others) rest a bit more friendly these days? I'd hate to think they are still cussing each other out for all Eternity. Great topic, the M71/.348. My New Years resolution is to get out there a bit more in the field and the gun shows. Thanks for all you do. You really are every bit as knowledgeable and approachable as any of the big time gun writers.
I've really no idea how Jack and Elmer's spirits might be interacting, but were they still here I suspect they'd disagree about the new bullets as much as the old. Seems more a personality clash than substantive one, though.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors A quick note - I would nix the reloading channel. I do agree that your words behind it would carry it far, but wouldn't you just be reinventing the wheel? Others have covered most of the popular calibers, and you wouldn't get too many hits on the unpopular ones except for gun nuts like myself who would really be interested in what could be done with a .25-35, or a 7mm Sharpe and Harte, or maybe a .577 Tyrannosaur really is more versatile than a .458 Win Mag. But you would need rifles in all the calibers you are touting at the moment, and good luck with that! So it's a case of "love the speaker, but question the topic".
Hey Ron. Ron here too. How about a “favorite” rimfire rifle or “favorite” squirrel rifle.
S&W 460 is a gain twist.
I would love to see a handload tutorial!
I agree with the comment about you and Jack O’Connor.
Thanbs Lobo. I'll try to live up to that high compliment.
I agree with Chuck.
As for the gentleman from Kentucky,I agree with your assessment of the bullet,but imagine that he chose the 26 Nosler because is hunting over some pretty big fields.I dont know how many different loads there are for this round,Ive never researched it.The thing about very specialized set ups is, occasionally you get close shots.I believe he learned a valuable lesson here.If the shots are close with such a high velocity,you either have to pick your shot better or find a different style bullet.No great pearls of wisdom here,but just wanted to say that I understand why he may have chosen that particular set up.He may very well get some 500 yrd shots.
A wise man learns from his mistakes; an even wiser one also learns from the mistakes of others. An even wiser man also learns that this does not make him better than the mistaken one, juat luckier and more grateful; that's whence humility stems 😏
I believe a mild gain twist is used in some of the 5.7 pistol barrels.
12/26 6:40pm. Looking forward to your podcast. Keep up the great work. Your info has helped me shot tighter patterns with my 30-06 Savage model 116.
Glad to hear it, Daren.
Good round but a a cheap garbage gun IMHO
Please do the hand loading class!!!
For any interested individuals information Davide Pedersoli makes a Winchester 71 replica called the 86/71 in both 348 win and 45-70
You should send Don with the accubond problem to Hornady custom ammo shop they will load what he is looking for
Gain twist is still used in 20 and 30mm Gatling canon and, from what I’m reading, in .460 s&w revolvers? I’ve heard that it’s common in rifled tank guns too, but don’t know about that. I think I once read that it was also used in the original Python .357 but I’ve never been able to confirm that.
Additional comment. Ron has a great enjoyable show. Always something interesting. Goes out of his way to not make any folks seem silly regardless how far off some of there assertions are. Jack O’Connor did not suffer fools lightly. He did not embellish his stories. He always told the truth. If he made a mistake about something or made a bad shot he told you about it. No stories about shooting running Jack Rabbits at 650 yards with a 4” barrel 44 mag. He was a better writer than anyone of his day or since IMHO and in my 71 years I’ve read them all. He did not shoot every thing with a 270 Winchester regardless of what you read on the internet. He did however take 2 grizzly bears and 11 moose with his 270. He always emphasized using the best cartridge for the task at hand and getting close enough for an ethical shot. In his “Complete Book of Rifles and Shotguns” he wrote that if he could have just one rifle to hunt the world over it would be a 375 H&H Magnum. Of course he went on to say that if he could have a second rifle it would be a 270 Winchester. No brag, just the facts!
I’ve been thinking about hand-loading. Would enjoy learning about it with you guidance and incite. 👍
7mm-08 is a great cartridge ✔
The savage 220 slug gun is made just like a rifle and mine shoots moa at 100 yards with trophy copper ammo from federal
I believe Colt used gain twist rifling in his 1860 colt new model army.
I lived in Johannesburg for a while. They are pretty adamant that you pronounce it Joe-hannesburg when you're speaking English. But if you're speaking Afrikaans then it's Yo-hannesburg. Good people down there in South Africa.
hornady did a podcast( i forget who) that explained alot of barrels. gain twist is common in large caliber guns. ie big big guns
Early Italian carcano ifles were gain twist as well. It was an early smokeless rifle, and they feared the higher speed tearing the bullets apart, but found it wasn't worth it and abandoned the concept.
From what I have read, the ablr is a bonded bullet but the lead is soft due to the low velocities it can expand at for the long range intended use. I would think the problematic results would be similar to the eldx (I know construction is different) at short vs long distance shots.
Soft lead at high speeds has also been known to become molten and throw the shot off. Berger had this problem with thin jackets years ago.
I like your shirt
the Nosler accubond long range if you ever look on the box or they're reloading sales pitches it has a maximum speed of where it will no longer stay together it's Max Speed where it still performs to its specs is 3400 ft per second and a minimum speed of where it will perform to its specs of like 1800 ft per second I believe that will get it to expand doesn't expand is good but it does expand and loses some of its material into the target of shrapnel but anything faster then it's maximum velocity and in some cases even it's supposed maximum velocity it will start to come apart one of the books I have shows around that hit at 1800 ft per second which is mostly together just slightly expanded still has a shaft and everything and around the hit at 3,200 feet per second and is basically flat so anything beyond that is probably just going to tear it apart it's built for long range so if you aren't going to hunt long range so that it hits at the proper velocity or you're not going to like he said shoot them behind the front shoulder not at too much of an angle then you're better off with some other type of bullet the good one is the eldx from horn today but it can have similar problems if it's going to fast and the new rounds from Remington loaded with a spear bullet which is pretty much the same concept but does tend to stay together a little bit better at higher velocities but all in all you can look through different rounds one good one that I found that seems to produce kind of the best of both worlds between a monolithic and a standard bonded bullet is a federal trophy Bond tip bullet or tip trophy Bond it has a Lead Core but a long copper Shank in the Lead Core is smaller and only in the front of the bullet but it's balanced well it has a non-melting high temperature polymer tip on it is boat tailed and holds holds 90 to 96% of its mass because of all the copper but you still get the same shock effect and some more energy transfer and fragmentation from the lead that's in the bullet yet still have a long copper base to continue on through and to keep the bullet together and we'll still function at long range how long I'm not exactly sure depending on the velocity depends on the rifle you have a 26 Nosler who knows you could be good out to 600 yards or you could only be good out to 300 yards who knows depends on what part of you use and you know whatever now they have put out rounds for reloading but to my knowledge it only goes down to 27 caliber so you'd have to buy Factory ammunition which is still pretty good from Federal you might want to look into that❤
Harry M. Pope is the famous barrel maker who invented the game twist rifling ....
Thanks for the correction, Gypsy. Alexander Pope was an 18th century English poet. Apparently my ancient college English Lit studies emerged from the fog on this one.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors A video on Pope and his work would be very entertaining I'm sure. There is a picture of Harry Pope and Phil Sharpe on the opening pages of his book, " the Complete Guide to Handloading". So I was curious and did some research...wow worth the digging. A video on the Phil Sharpe manual would be equally great. Going through his 1937 work(with load data) most of it is very relevant to this day. Thanks for the great vids you do!