Comparing Wonderkids on FIFA and Football Manager
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
- Football manager has the most robust scouting network in the entire world. Over 395,000 players, cataloged, rated across 40 or so attributes, and put into a video game each year. Then, there is FIFA. It locks in on the top leagues mainly in Europe, providing equally detailed ratings to fit a playing mechanic for hundreds of millions of people to play each year. The question at hand is: which game rates wonderkids better? I have no idea what I’m going to find here, but taking real-life knowledge into it, is there a game that rates wonderkids better?
I obviously think Football Manager is a better overall scouting game. But, with the focus on so many players, is there a trend in FIFA to get at the small details of what makes these wonderkids who they are? I mean they spend so much time animating their appearance in the game you figure the wonderkids would get the same treatment for their actual rating in the game. Perhaps the most interesting question though is how the ratings will be different because of the match engine in football manager and FIFA being so different. I have not studied the one in FIFA, but I know speed matters. I imagine we will see that impact.
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I know jumping and jumping reach are different, I cut the explanation because it was long-winded and didn't flow, I've since realized this dramatically affected the well being of millions, I won't do it again
PS This was closer than expected
Also, how is 74 really any different to 15? 😂😂😂 74 is almost exactly 3/4 of 100 and 15 is 3/4 of 20 so I'm confused as to why you acted like they were vastly different numbers when they are almost exactly the same? O.o
Surprisingly, Halland's jumps really are his weakness in real life.
@@lardyboyk4478 It's the disparity between acceleration and jumping on FIFA
@@ZealandonYT Ahhhh okay, thanks for the clarification boss 👌 The entire squad has reacted positively to your words
That's cap 😂
well 150CA in fm is a great player while 75 in fifa is barely a premier league level so...
Yeah, the FM:150=Fifa:75 is only mathematically correct
But the 150 is actually more comparable to a 80-85 rating in fifa, which is good but not super great
A big factor is that FM takes a players CA from EVERY STAT, meanwhile FIFA determines ratings based on stats that are relevant to their position. Poor defending doesn't affect a winger from being amazing and things such as pace aren't even considered for any positions!
@@cameron9385 In FM stats affect CA differently based on the players position. For example, if you put a CB up to 20 tacking it'll increase his CA more than it would if you gave a ST 20 tackling.
Exactly, s 75 in FIFA would be a 130-135ish in FM imo
Ratings in fifa are different because they only have to accommodate for Professional footballers, whereas the FM system has to fit semi pro and amateur players.
When Zealand realises that 15 jumping x5=75 and FIFA’s rating was 74
I guess FM still wins lol
That 1 attribute difference must mean a lot
Math is hard, it hinged as much on FIFA's huge disparity between acceleration and jumping, but jumping being different between the two games I just looked for an excuse to give FM the win
I'm Zealand and that's my story
@@ZealandonYT let's be honest FIFA was never winning
@@fin5317 No Fifa overates players
Jumping in fifa is different, its how much they leap off the ground, and not ,like in FM, how high their head can be
Very true, and I'd also like to add, even if it were the same thing, 15 Jumping Reach in FM, being at 3/4 of the scale, would equate to 75 jumping in Fifa, meaning the difference even in Zealands logic is merely one point. So, Z I love you, but your argumentation kinda failed you here
@@leonblum4265 I was literally doing the maths and was so confused by Z's argument because of that exact reason
Exactly this jumping is like someone’s vertical not comparable to reach which would include someone’s height and to top it off it ended up being 75-74 anyway. I love Zealand’s content but he does overlook things which makes him come to big conclusions in most videos...
Exactly, that's why tall players need less jumping to reach the same height.
@@averagebeetle have you done the math for the other attributes (which Zealand brought up) or just thought the 1 "math" is enough? While the OP brings up a legitimate point about jumping reach, the other points miss the mark.
I‘d love you to compare wonderkids who are not at the top of the game yet on their potential ability, players like Nuno Mendes, Florian Wirtz, Moukoko, etc.
Moukoko ain't in fifa yet
Fm blows out fifa in that
Oh also, it should be noted that Fifa doesnt actually use 1-100, its minimums are more like 40, and what a 40 represents and what a 1 in FM represents are going to be wildly different
It is 10-99, there's a guide for Editors on their website which includes that a player rating/stats can't be lower than 10 unless they're a keeper.
40 in Fifa would actually be about 50 in FM. For example, most youth players at league 2 teams are rated about 40ish on FIFA and 50-60 on FM.
i love how haaland won purely on the fact that his jumping was 74 on fifa even tho if you reflected that onto football manager it would be 15 so essentially it’s the same 😭
I once created one of my star strikers from FM in Fifa, he won the everything with me, when I created him in fifa he came out 75 overall. Its quite hard to translate the stats I fell.
There was a FM/FIFA/PES attribute converter spreadsheet a couple of years ago. If I remember correctly it managed to make the conversions pretty accurate
@@mihailborisov2375 Still is. I can't link it as it's an Excel document, but it works great. In reality, a lot of the different attributes for FM affect more than one stat on the Fifa conversion. Also, i feel like just translating say a 10 on football manager into a 50 on Fifa is wrong. It's more complicated than that, and that's recognized in the converter.
Camavinga being a 76 on Fifa is probably very close to being equivalent to 136 on FM, maybe a tad bit higher. It isn't just 76x2=152.
Fifa's overall system depends on the stats that are important to that position, for example having good passing as a striker isn't going to impact a players overall much compared to heading accuracy or attack positioning. So if you have a player that has 80 in everything and compare him to someone that has 90's in all the important stats but bang average 70's in the rest then the guy with the high important stats will be higher rated despite having a lower overall stat, CM might be an exception.
Fifa rates players differently, because they also have special cards. Back in Fifa 11 and earlier games they didn't give players as high ratings as they do now.
They also give players much higher pace because it's more fun to play with
And sometimes they just act like some players don't even have legs
The Juming Stat in FIFA is not equivalent to Jumping Reach in FM. The Jumping stat reflects only how high a player can jump and because he is so tall, he doesn't need to jump that high.
FIFA tends to give higher ratings, a 75 overall is basically a bang average top division player.
74 jumping is actually very high, considering he is a big guy.... Most big strikers have bad jumping in fifa, but they still win every header because of height tho
Jumping reach is not the same as jumping. Jumping reach in fifa would be the combination of height and jumping.
FIFA likely gives higher current ratings because career mode is something that is hardly played anymore, not at least for say 10-20 seasons that would allow these wonderkids to get to their prime and a little past them. In FM that is the whole game so they give lower ratings because most of the playerbase will play for 10-20 seasons.
Nah, there’s an update every week, and the career mode community is still huge
@@lucas_dr3 They do weekly updates in career mode? So when you're in say 2028 the weekly form of guys like Camavinga and Fati still influences their stats?
@@iainvos5534 no they apply when starting a CM
In FIFA CM it takes like 2 years for someone like Fati to reach their potential (if you buy them and train them and play them), the player growth is just crazy
@@lucas_dr3 So that has little bearing on the player growth, or the fact that most start higher than in FM. Also when it comes to FIFA all I hear every year is the CM players getting boned with contract bugs, board requirements being bugged, teams still having unbakanced squads after a larger than normal number of seasons, etc. Last I've heard of it there are fixes that are community made, but that doesn't change the fact that playing 10-20 seasons into the future goes beyond what the FIFA devs assume the playerbase will play while the FM devs take into account that the majority of the playerbase will play at least 10 seasons into the future. So for the best player experience wonderkids in FIFA will need to reach their full potential super fast and start out with higher stats while in FM the growth can be slower because you'd expect a wonderkid to grow into their prime around 26-31 depending on the particular player.
I feel like you can't compare the two, because in fm someone with 16 or 17 finishing would be considered a good/lethal finisher and someone for a top league, but if you translate that into FIFA ratings, it's and 80 or 85, and as someone who plays both, I would want my striker to have AT LEAST 85 finishing if I was a top 5 league manager.
Also, an 80 rated player in FIFA is a 160 ca in fm, which is really good in fm but fairly average in FIFA.
I don't think the two can be comparable
On FIFA's defense, the way it gives ratings to players is different from FM. A great example would be a winger I had who was playing at a good level for the Portuguese premier league according to my staff and to his stats, but his current ability was only 124. No way his FIFA rating would be 62, that's not nearly the rating required for a player of that level. He would most likely be rated between 72-77 if you manually introduced his stats in FIFA.
I saw someone making a statistical analysis of the top players' ratings in FIFA and FM and come up with a different model: OVR = 0.34CA + 30
Both games can be wrong, but when there are professional clubs that can and will use some of the information in fm for their real life scouting because of how trusted and generally accurate it is, that is the game I think we'd all choose for ratings
Fifa ratings and FM ratings can't be simply compared linearly. An average Premier League player in Fifa (as in first-team quality for a mid-table team) has a rating of around 78-79. Doubling that would give you 156-158, which is pretty close to world-class in FM. The lowest rated player in Fifa is 47, doubling that would give you 94, which is somewhere between league 1 and league 2 quality in FM.
Haaland has a 74 jumping because he is tall. Tall players in Fifa naturally have lower ratings on their jumping, while shorter players (i assume because they have to jump high to reach the ball) have higher ratings in jumping overall. While it's not true to every player, i have noticed this kind of logic especially in the defensive midfielder positions.
Fifa also adds how well known the player is into its rating making a lot of the overalls "inflated"
Remember the Fifa Manager games?
Man i wish EA wouldn't have scrapped the series, this video made me wanna play it again.
Your football manager character looks more like you than you do.
"I don't care enough, I'll just google it." I felt that.
One of the best FM channels, i really like videos mate. Keep it going.
Hi Zealand, just want to say I really like the history podcast!! Hoping for more soon!
Almost 100K :)
I find FIFA tends to overrate the more well known players whilst similarly underrating the less prominent players- I suppose it demonstrates the significant difference when it comes to the work going into the databases for each game series
The crossover episode we all wanted lets be honest.
"I like big DB's and I cannot lie" 😂😂😂😂 quality. Sir Mix-A-Lot would be proud if he saw this
"He's going to be so unbelievably annoying to play against..." kinda like he is in the real world.
Let's agree that Zealand has a hell of a calf... well done man!
Very, err... scientific :D Should do one with some lesser known players (wqith highlight videos of their actual ability). Also, thought it might be worth mentioning that in FM players CA can go up with a good pre-season, so the discrepancies would be smaller once the season is underway, or at least that's the excuse I'm using to help explain it a little
Just so you know, while FIFA does rate everyone higher still, it’s not quite as large of a discrepancy because FIFA’s scale is 1-99 rather than 1-100 which means that everyone is a bit closer than you suggested in the video (but still higher on FIFA)
Also on FIFA jumping isn’t the same as jumping reach - it’s how high he can get off the ground. Mertesacker is the best example, he used to have 30 jumping which was a totally accurate reflection of real life because he literally almost never got off the ground. I do think jumping reach is the better attribute to describe what we are trying to describe, but it is just worth noting that jumping itself is different and therefore in FIFA Haaland would be able to get as high as he can in FM (if not higher, 74 jumping for someone his height is crazy)!
Football Manager - Simulation
Fifa - Arcade
One huge caveat to this experiment though is that FM's research into the talented players of the world far exceeds that of FIFA. Whilst your household wonderkids may be marked up on FIFA compared to FM, go further down the list and it's almost as if FIFA will be like "who's that?".
On the other end of the scale too, FIFA have no concept of stat depreciation, particularly in what FM would call the physical categories. Players well into their 30s are considered to be far quicker than younger players, by and large, throughout their career.
I loved this idea of a video but some things I noticed that I think you should consider if you make the same type of video in the future
Firstly, In fifa there are ratings that are given at the start of the game then as the year progresses the stats are updated to match their current form(which football manager doesn't do to my knowledge) like for example halaand in fifa 21 started at 84 not 87 so I think you should compare with the starting overall not current one to make it more fair
The second thing is the stats mean different things in either game like the stat you based your judgement on halaand for example "jumping" in football manager is "jumping reach" which is roughly based on height while in fifa jumping is significantly lower on taller players to balance out their height as in the game a tall player with high jumping will just be broken so the have to balance it so if you can just take a quick look at what the stats mean you would probably have better judgement and comparison
And at the end, I play both games and enjoy both so any future videos including them will get an instant like from me probably and thanks for the great content❤️
That's why I prefer FM. The fact is that Fifa is hyping up all the players, especially the wonderkids.
The thing is, fifa has to adjust to the fact their game is broken. You cant have a strong and fast player because he would be OP. They try to encase players to a stereotype. You cant be a mix of a trequartista and a target man, youre either one or the other, otherwise players like ibarbo became the second coming of batistuta
Being part of an elite online gaming community
*C O M M U N I T Y*
Tbh if you look deep enough you can find hidden gems on fifa and now they have something called dynamic potential which has the power to make anyone a superstar and it's kinda fun
I love how Zealand arbitrarily gave Football Manager Phil Foden without even explaining why lmao
Have you ever seen Foden fall down
Yes
15 jumping is 75, FIFA put it as 74. So it's almost the same thing Zealand. 👀👀
Jumping and Jumping Reach are also totally different.
Jumping in FIFA is how high you can get off the ground.
Jumping Reach is how high you can reach with your head.
Big difference between FIFA and FM CA ratings is FIFA ratings are position and attribute stacked.. so in FIFA a centre half with 90 finishing but only 68 for tackling would be lower rated than if those attributes are switched.. on FM the CA would be the same.
I do think on FIFA it's not really 1-99 because u rarely see someone with stats in the 20s so that's why the pace is always higher
BRO WE JUST WANT A FM SAVE!!!!
FIFA ratings go from 1-99, there hasn’t been a player in the history with a 100 rating
There has never been a 1 rated card either 🙄
@@henrygascoigne7870 there has been a 5 though
@@truechaosmulala3831 who?!
@@truechaosmulala3831 probably a man utd player. Started his career at the club at 90 and after a year became a 5.
@@Aussie_lad in one of the old fifas a couch scored a cool goal and got a team of the weak card rated 5
Really liked this, would love to see more of this? Maybe top US guys or English National team?
2 things, athleticism in fifa doesn't impact the overall at all. if felix had 1 for stamina and strength his rating wouldn't change much. Also jumpign is not the same as jumpign reach. it doesn't take his height into account in fifa, its just how high he can jump off the ground rather how high his head goes
Fifa's rating isn't 0-100. Players under 50 overall barely exist in the game.
So it's more like 50-100.
I have a slovakian regen 1.95 tall with 20 jumping reach. Good luck scoring against him erling haaland
"I like big databases... and I cannot lie" Brilliant made me exhale loudly
For anyone who needs a way to convert fifa attributes to fm attributes and vice versa, here is how to do it:
Overall/Potential:
Fifa overall rating or potential*2=FM Skill or Potential
OR
FM Skill or Potential/2 = Fifa overall rating or potential
Attributes:
Fifa Attribute/5=FM Attribute
Or
Fm Attribute*5=Fifa Attribute
The biggest reason overalls are different is that overalls in FIFA are not just adding up attributes. Having terrible defensive attributes doesn't affect a striker's overall, whereas that would give you a lower number in FM if I am not confused.
Just to make the situation worse, you didn’t HAVE to open a Fifa to look at wonder kids at fifa
a player that is 6"4 with poor jumping capability still equals good jumping reach. Height + jumping ability = jumping reach.
I feel like if FM were giving out current ability ratings from 1-100 they would be closer to Fifa, I feel like you were slightly biased on this one although I do feel like FM are generally much better at scouting players
FIFA gives higher ratings so the 12yo kids buy more packs to pull the high rated guys in FUT... Noone would be happy bout a 68 Camavinga... know what i mean?
you should've used Sofifa for the Fifa player stats because I noticed right off the bat that the Camavinga rating on the site you used is wrong he is actually 78 rated, and has been since about October.
Speed dribbler with 68 balance, how does that work?
Not a bad take between the 2 games but I see a small issue with it not every save is a same did you run the test on football manager a number of times.
Comparing Wonderkids on FIFA and Football Manager = pure nunsens!
Like a commenter said below, you're missing a lot of info that would structure your argument better. Like your end point on why FM rates their players lower than FIFA does on average.
You're half right since FM has a larger scouting network and a larger database to work with so they need to do that to make sure players are arcuate ability wise, but remember that at their core FIFA would still have those higher ratings even with the same tools and resources that FM uses since they're an arcade football game. FM is made for you to develop teams, players, etc in simulations as close to real life as possible, in FIFA they want Haaland to have an 87 rated card in UT for marketing purposes + since Career modes are incredibly short they need a player like him to reach their potential incredibly fast in order to "stimulate", his growth according to real life predictions.
Or talking about stat ranges, you can't double stats from FIFA to convert it and compare to FM stats (trust me I tried doing that like 4 years ago when I tried importing players over). Haaland is 87 rated not because of his 99 passing stats, but his 99 shooting stat. In FIFa there's a core set of stats that determine ability, and causes a fluctuation in rating. In FM the players CA will be determined by a more rounded set of data which will give them a better rounded CA than FIFA would if directly translated over.
There's a bit more stuff, but a lot of people have already did a deep dive under me talking about those things so just take this as my ramblings explanations lol.
Shouldn't the FIFA stats in the drop down be set to July 2020 as that's when the FM database also starts...?
Huh, Camavinga and Joao Felix were both born on November 10th
Sorry but this nothing to do with this video.. What can I do when i have players who don't play well with each other? I have 2 CM on my team and they don't play well with each other e what more is that the CDM too doesn't play well with one of the CM's... Please help
+, I don’t think 1/2 scale is the most accurate, Fifa has lots of 90~ potential players meanwhile it’s hard to find any 180+ at FM
you cant really compare the accuracy of Camavinga's overall rating on FIFA - i guarantee nobody uses that card on the horrendous mashup that is FUT because it's absolutely shite and it doesn't develop
My 2 favorite FOOTBALL games, I play them both way to much.
they are like the only two football games lol pes is crap
@@dakingk7813 I should have said they are the only games I play.
Even if the jumping stat between games meant the same, I feel the need to point out a 15/20 on FM is a 75 on FIFA anyway. So both games kinda rate him the same on that, So FIFA's 76 probably isn't doing him harshly in comparison to FM.
I think the important thing you have to remember is that Fifa ratings are in general higher. For example 130 CA is a decent prem player 140 is a good on and 150 is a leading one. In Fifa a 65 is genuinely unplayable and even the subsequent 70s aand 75's are likely coming off the bench or being played if you really personally like them. I think that may be more of a game balance thing. And obviously everyone already yelled at you for the jumping vs jumping reach thing (which you even called jumping reach at the end).
My wildest dream is to have fmscout and the like with the same layout as sofifa
Should've compared each wonderkids rating to the rating of the best rated player in the respective game, because fifa has never had a 100 rated player and FM doesn't have a 200 rated player
Unofficial Messi back 2012? In his 94 goal season, card was good enough for 100 but they gave him 94
@@jngsafcFTWSAFC what does that even really mean tho, rating a player max means you have no where to improve into. I'm just saying that you'd be better taking the (current ability of the wonderkid)x100/(current ability of the best in the game)
haalands fifa rating using that system is 90 and his fm rating is 85
I don't think this was ever going to work really. There's a big difference in how fifa and football manager works. But I guess it comes down to one's own opinion. How you rate the player will make you favour certain attributes given to him. In my opinion, halaand doesn't have much of a jumping reach. But that stat also shows how likely a player is to time his jump better than another player and halaand isn't that good in that aspect. It also correlates with his lack of balance so that stat is accurate for me even though I value him highly as a player. Like take Phil's balance. Phil foden's balance is key to him being as good as he is especially in the league that he plays in. If you really watch his matches. I mean really pay attention to the game he plays, you'll see how important his balance is. But yeah, comes down to opinion at the end of the day. I thought fifa took that one, especially Joao Felix's pace. He is that fast.
But I did try
if u treat the scale up from 1-20 to 1-100 by 5x then halands jumping is 1 point differnece
Fifa actually does stuff 1-99
11:24 so you mean the rest of the world
Zealand likes big databases
Well one scouting database is used by actual teams and the other is used to lure kids into using their parents credit cards to buy players for FUT so I think that's the major difference
To be fair I don’t think I’ve ever seen Haaland jump 🤔
9:26 Been working on those Jack Grealish calves Zealand?
imo fodens balance is so high because he almost refuses to go down even when he could bait the foul.
I always feel FM series lowballs everyone by about 10 points. I’m in the year 2044 in FM13 now and the regents in the Prem are probably about 10 better on average than the starting database.
Sim 5 years into future on both games then compare their potentials
There is so much wrong with this video. I play fm religiously but he misses out on so much. Like haaland, jumping is NOT the same as reach, he can reach high but probably cant actually jump that high cuz he is so big. Ratings are rated on how important stats are to a players position. Whereas fm has the sum of all stats. ALSO, in fifa, 81+ is prem level, in fm id say 150 plus is prem level. ALSO, 74 is just about the same as 15
The posted comment is me explaining the jumping thing and that the disparity between acceleration and jumping ability in FIFA bothered me - as for the way fifa ratings work and fm ratings work, deciding what premier league level is is definitely subjective and depends on what level we’re on about
@@ZealandonYT the prem standard on fifa is not really any discussion. Prem level IS 81+ on fifa. And for fm i guess i agree that its more subjective but you can draw a line if you were to take a look at each clubs first XI players
@@joelsletten3386 I don't play a lot of FIFA so I may have missed the 11th commandment that says premier league players can't take the field at 80 overall
Jokes aside, I'm sorry my attempt to balance out the overalls has come out so wrong to you
@@ZealandonYT its alright, i just wanted to clear things up so you give out the right information, all love from me. I love your channel and all you do
@@joelsletten3386 It was a difficult thing to do, more for fun than for science
FIFA overrates players to generate hype for their awful gambling system.
Are you telling me that creating a system of micro-transactions to fleece money from the parents of ignorant teenages is an "awful gambling system"!?..... Wait, yes you are, and you are 100% correct.
I think I told you a similar video on stream a few months ago.
Hello how do I dowland a logo pack on iPad for FM 21 if there is one and how do I install it pls someone help me!
What's the point of the comparison?
Not related but if I buy too many players and change my original team too much, will that have a bad impact even if the players I buy are statistically better
Every 25 points for skill in fifa is 5 skill in FM, and every 25 points in fifa of CA is equal to 50 CA of FM :)
in fifa jumping = vertical leap. Not how high your head is
I mean 15 jumping in fm is equal to 75 in fifa so idk??
You look a bit like Landon Donovon bro, just me?😂
FIFA is always so late on wonderkids. All FM players knew about Ruben Dias and Camavinga years ago and FIFA only recently just released a promo for future stars with them both in it. Always have and will prefer FM.
Nah your wrong, Camavinga and Ruben Dias are in FIFA since 20 and the promo was only for Ultimate Team. FIFA can only add players when they are 17. Thats why some wonderkids are coming late into the Game.
Is there a database where all the wonder kids have their highest possible potential?
Haaland’s jumping on fifa is 74 out of 99 meaning it is almost 75% of the max rating and on football manager it is 15 out of 20 which is 75% of the max jumping rating he could have 🤷🏻♂️
to be fair, FIFA inflates the speed stats as is the stat the grows the slowest in game... that being said also to be fair, you dont really see Haaland score may headers by out jumping people, when i think of Haaland is his deceptive speed and amazing finishing. i think FM does a much better job at letting players grow within the game
If you scale Haalands jumping from FM21 to Fifa it’s only a 75 🤷♂️
Fifa rates from 1-99, not 1-100. Small detail maybe but still
I'm sorry but in what universe is brenner the 10th best wonderkid in the world? He's probably not even in the top50