I lived in Bethlehem for over 70 years. It was interesting watching how the trains from P-Burg all tied in up to Allentown. I also worked at the Beth Steel for 31 years. The history of the Steel is also very interesting. You touched on some of it.
Can’t tell you how much I thoroughly enjoy not only the great videos but your excellent narratives on the ABE area. I grew up in Reading, then Allentown and finally Scranton before leaving the area in 1964 for the Air Force from which I retired in ‘93 and settled in the metro Phoenix AZ area. But as a kid I remember the big steamers hauling coal down thru the valley,and the Lackawanna’s Phoebe Snow making a shorty stop in Scranton at that beautiful station (now a hotel), sometimes still packed with snow on its way down from Buffalo to Hoboken. Now I occasionally will spot mile long trains as I drive the I-40 from NM to AZ, see them as they race thru either Flagstaff in the north or Maricopa, some 35 miles south. Again, thanks so much for rekindling the memories of the “golden age” in my mind, and keep up with the great work.
Nice video! It is kind of like memory lane for me. I was born in Phillipsburg, NJ, though I haven't visited there very much. My family used to have a house in Bethlehem, and we drove around the steel area a lot. We sold the house about 15 years ago. I have cousins in Whitehall, near Allentown, and we drive on RT 145/ MacArthur Road, which you showed, to see them.
Wow great history lesson about PA... narration of your videos is impressive love the end shot of Taylor Yard and saw that Yard Limit sign as soon as I saw it I thought back to your video Yard Action 👏🏽
Great A.C.! I almost feel I should be sending you tuition and getting prepared for an exam with all the great education you provide on Pennsylvania area railroading.
Nice presentation sir! I enjoyed it, especially since I live here in the ABE Rail-Land all my life. A few things you didn't mention and may not even know about .... BOTH roundhouses that were here in the Heyday are completely gone .. only some concrete floor remains of either one :( .... the Bethlehem Curved Yards is only used anymore for storage of excess intermodal stock ... and the only way to get to the new intermodal transfer is by driving almost to Hellertown to get to the access street. Allentown Passenger Station still stands! In Bethlehem, the P/RR-LV/RR Station is still there and completely restored .. used by St. Luke's Hospital, And across the river from that one, the Jersey Central Freight Station & Storehouse are still there and in Great shape, being used for offices and a restaurant! Easton's Station ... what's left of it ... is a disaster! Regarding Railfanning ..... My apologies, but in NS's defense, there are MANY issues along the lines between P'Burg and Emmaus (for reason's I can't explain) with vagrancy, graffiti, property damage, vandalism of equipment. Trespassers seem to especially piss em off : ) .. rightly so I guess .. given security concerns as well. SO .... AGAIN, thank you friend for a great video !!!!!
Thanks Man.. And thank you for shedding some light on the situation.. I understand NS's stance on trespassers but it doesn't make it any less frustrating from an outsiders point of view.. I noticed your avatar of the Reading F-unit.. Was that taken at Steamtown?
NO .. that shot was taken in Emmaus. The Reading Club ( I forget their name) was running a special every year that went down to Dillingersville on the Perkiomen sub. Their Steamer didn't show up ... instead they came with this one that year. Was great for me since I happen to like F models. I have nice collection of traction pics ... If you'd like a copy of the original picture which the avatar comes from, leave your address on my channel and i'll send it too you !!!
Great work! I am a newbie railfan, and I learned a TON. I live less than a mile from the NS tracks at Center Street (Rt. 512) in Bethlehem. Usually two trips a day - both ways (9:30am then 5:00pm). Sometimes on Thursday Nights, LATE NIGHT trains. Love hearing them!
What's up AC I like these videos a lot better where you narrate you're a good narrator I like your real fan documentaries very much good job my friend peace out into the world have a great day
awesome catch of the Heritage Unit's and the Indiana SD90/43MAC #7337 & #7241. awesome power and lashup's. awesome catches. awesome video. learned something from this video and give me some of idea's to. when i go visit this place.
We call that type of local with engines on both ends a push pull on the NS , that was probably an H11, H74 or H76. I work out of Allentown, great shots and videos from you guys.
I was born and raised in south bethlehem. We used to jump the trains all the time as kids. I knew a man who lost a leg from the knee down. Amplex St. Bethlehem, Pa.
When you drive around it's not hard to notice that there seems to be areas where tracks used to be all over. It's because there used to be tracks everywhere! Allentown had a 4 track mainline cutting through it and even in my small home town there was a 3 track mainline!
Locations: Phillipsburg Railway Museum (Historians) Freemansburg Industrial Track B-town CP-JU Allentown Yard Bethlehem Container Facility CP Allen CP Burn CP Bethlehem CP Phillipsburg Central Railroad of NJ Phillipsburg Yard (with miniature railway included!) The Black Bridge PA/NJ State Line (near Phillipsburg) Train 14R from Enola, PA to East Deerfield, MA (Taylor Yard on the Southern Tier area) 34:02 Check out those ex-KCS Southern Bell hoppers (These hoppers acquired by Kansas City Southern Railroad had been sold to COER leasing, they are going somewhere to be worked.)!! CP Ham
OK, so speaking of 16R out of Bingotown, will 5643 be overhauled for teardown by Pan Am POAY? It will, because 14R's itinerary was to bring back the ex-KCS Southern Belle hoppers and hand them to a POAY or RJAY or ED-8. Then CSX freight car train Q012 was to arrive in East Deerfield, Massachusetts to cut away the power, pickup the retired CN 5643, run around the train, let a Guilford locomotive get the COER hoppers, push them to the back of the Q012 and then the CSX intermodal cuts its way back to Maine as Pan Am CBTM (Cut Back to Maine) and then drop them on a storage track. A Pan Am RJAY would proceed past CBTM with Santa Fe C44-9W #654 leading and a BNSF SD70ACe-P4 trailing third. The RJAY could have originated from Rotterdam Junction, New York grain elevator but it only had 15 covered hoppers including one with the green BN logo on the side. An NS 23K intermodal train then met the Pan Am grain train RJAY with a Canadian National SD70ACe-P6 trailing behind a NS SD60. Pan Am's OCS then pulled to a siding in Maine because of the CBTM train leaving the yard. The dispatcher on the cab of RJAY (BNSF 654 Santa Fe Warbonnet, BNSF 5836 ES44C4 and BNSF SD70ACe-P4) has told CBTM to leave Maine and arrive in the Carolinas to park for the night before finally arriving in Atlanta, GA as NS 071 the next day. Day 2 NS 071 (CSX Q012, Pan Am CBTM) came past when we arrived in Austell, GA. This is where Norfolk Southern's Atlanta North District connects Norfolk Southern's East End District. Before NS 071's CSX/PAS cut back train arrived, Norfolk Southern's 282 intermodal train came through with NS AC44C6M #4004 and NS AC44C6M #4005 (both specially painted as DC-AC conversion that was for rebuild at Juniata with a blue stripe on the cab) leading the train from Jacksonville, FL to Chicago. After the 282 passed by, the 071 got a clear signal to cross over tracks and finally arrive in Inman Yard to cut off the train. An extra NS C44-9W then hopped over to the yard tracks to grab the rear half of CBTM and then run as NS 099 from Atlanta, GA to Birmingham, AL via the East End District. After the 099's tail disappeared on the East End, we called it a day and fly home. Overall, very good info about the CSX/PAS/NS intermodal interchange between Massachusetts and Alabama.
14R just runs from Enola, PA to East Deerfield, MA. In a few weeks it will run as 16R back to Binghamton, NY from Bingotown to Massachusetts. So speaking of familiar faces, does anything in a locomotive consist look familiar all to you?
Knew the area because I live in Stewartsville,NJ and I'm always at the Old CRRNJ Sation location vicinity because there is a church and a cycle shop next to it. 2:00-5:00 at the CRRNJ Tower the track to the left is the Erie Lackawanna Railroad Phillipsburg Branch to Hackettstown NJ transit station. Triple Crown Roadrailer terminal is actually off exit 67 Interstate 78 Hellertown Bethlehem PA-412 by the old Reading RR shops now a Trans bridge lines 42nd Street Port Authority Bus Terminal to Sands Casino via Hellertown stop.
what a great video. keep up the great work, where is cp 87 and where do you get all your info regarding trains and routing.thanks, any help will be appreciated.
one question. what does CP stand for? great video! ill need to plan another railfan trip to Bethlehem, the'res a lot of rail action in the Leigh valley. also i never knew there was a museum in Philipsburg, ill have to check that out. keep up the good work -Alex.
Im not far from Phillipsburg NJ. How often does that train run thru there? At what times? Im new to this railfan thing. Im planning a trip to Altoona to check out the activity. Id like to visit Phillipsburg as well. Great vids. I subscribed.
Norfolk Southern owns the yard at East Deerfield, Mass. along with the rest of the former Boston & Maine west end stretching as far east as Ayer, Mass. NSC does own the line(s), but does officially operate them. The operations are done by Springfield Terminal; a subsidiary of the former Guilford Transportation rebranded Pan Am Railways with the ST now being an entity of Pan Am Southern which is a joint venture of Pan Am Railways and Norfolk Southern. The interchange at East Deerfield would be what I'd term an administrative interchange, as NSC is still receiving haulage through ownership. Lastly, Norfolk Southern retains intermodal,automotive and marketing rights over these lines while Pan Am Railways markets industrial traffic, what little remains. Norfolk Southern seems to be increasing its equity stake in New England railroads. I'm now seeing their locomotives on the former CN line from Auburn, Maine to Montreal.Perhaps these great videos will come north to cover this?
Yes and no.. Both NS and Pan Am Railways own an equal 50% stack in the Pan Am Southern between Ayer, MA and Mechanicville, NY.. The main freight yard on the line is at East Deerfield, MA so that's where the freights are made up and broken down.
Well done and is there a track connection between the CNJ & PRR Delaware River Line currently used by the steam Excursion train volunteered there 6 years ago Thomas and Friends event July 2013.
![[T-17] [Speedway to the Atlantic] ADVENTURES IN ALTOONA](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/f6GpRk9ag0A/mqdefault.jpg)
![[T-17] [Speedway to the Atlantic] ADVENTURES IN ALTOONA](/img/tr.png)
![[GL][T-137] DC-2-AC FAMILY: SD70ACC, AC44C6M, ECOs, Gevos and the Locomotive Rebuilding Craze](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/44ykUGhLe5g/mqdefault.jpg)
I lived in Bethlehem for over 70 years. It was interesting watching how the trains from P-Burg all tied in up to Allentown. I also worked at the Beth Steel for 31 years. The history of the Steel is also very interesting. You touched on some of it.
I look forward to watching more of your up coming videos. Loved following along on this one. Excellent video AC.
Thanks, Hans.. It's always a pleasure having you along for the ride.
Excellent overview of our Railroad history and present rails. Thanks.
Thanks Dwight!
Can’t tell you how much I thoroughly enjoy not only the great videos but your excellent narratives on the ABE area. I grew up in Reading, then Allentown and finally Scranton before leaving the area in 1964 for the Air Force from which I retired in ‘93 and settled in the metro Phoenix AZ area. But as a kid I remember the big steamers hauling coal down thru the valley,and the Lackawanna’s Phoebe Snow making a shorty stop in Scranton at that beautiful station (now a hotel), sometimes still packed with snow on its way down from Buffalo to Hoboken. Now I occasionally will spot mile long trains as I drive the I-40 from NM to AZ, see them as they race thru either Flagstaff in the north or Maricopa, some 35 miles south. Again, thanks so much for rekindling the memories of the “golden age” in my mind, and keep up with the great work.
Thank you for your kind words and inspiration, Peter.. It makes all of the difference and is much appreciated..
Brilliant work as always, AC. The horn on 25W sounded epic. Loved the CN power. The old switchers were a nice treat too. Keep up the great work!
Thanks Trav.. I'm still waitin' for your next one.. I need you to keep me to par on what's happening way out west!
Nice video! It is kind of like memory lane for me. I was born in Phillipsburg, NJ, though I haven't visited there very much. My family used to have a house in Bethlehem, and we drove around the steel area a lot. We sold the house about 15 years ago. I have cousins in Whitehall, near Allentown, and we drive on RT 145/ MacArthur Road, which you showed, to see them.
Cool.. Yeah, I know where Whitehall is.. Used to eat at Red Lobster there.
Wow great history lesson about PA... narration of your videos is impressive love the end shot of Taylor Yard and saw that Yard Limit sign as soon as I saw it I thought back to your video Yard Action 👏🏽
Thanks, Man.. That 'Yard Limit' sign is important for reasons that I'll explain in an upcoming video
Great A.C.! I almost feel I should be sending you tuition and getting prepared for an exam with all the great education you provide on Pennsylvania area railroading.
Thanks J.. I'm glad that you enjoy them!
Wow, those KCS Southern Belles were some good looking hoppers! Great catches AC! Love all the information that you give us. Cheers, Dan
Thanks, Danny.. Cheers!
Excellent video as always. If your lucky enough to catch one, it's an amazing sight seeing the trains come in and out over the bridge from canal park.
Greetings from the UK... great video keep them coming, very informative.
Thanks, Jeremy.. I'm glad to see them being enjoyed by our cousins across the Atlantic.
This was a great presentation! Please keep them coming.
Thanks man, I'm glad that you enjoyed it..
Nice presentation sir! I enjoyed it, especially since I live here in the ABE Rail-Land all my life. A few things you didn't mention and may not even know about .... BOTH roundhouses that were here in the Heyday are completely gone .. only some concrete floor remains of either one :( .... the Bethlehem Curved Yards is only used anymore for storage of excess intermodal stock ... and the only way to get to the new intermodal transfer is by driving almost to Hellertown to get to the access street. Allentown Passenger Station still stands! In Bethlehem, the P/RR-LV/RR Station is still there and completely restored .. used by St. Luke's Hospital, And across the river from that one, the Jersey Central Freight Station & Storehouse are still there and in Great shape, being used for offices and a restaurant! Easton's Station ... what's left of it ... is a disaster! Regarding Railfanning ..... My apologies, but in NS's defense, there are MANY issues along the lines between P'Burg and Emmaus (for reason's I can't explain) with vagrancy, graffiti, property damage, vandalism of equipment. Trespassers seem to especially piss em off : ) .. rightly so I guess .. given security concerns as well. SO .... AGAIN, thank you friend for a great video !!!!!
Thanks Man.. And thank you for shedding some light on the situation.. I understand NS's stance on trespassers but it doesn't make it any less frustrating from an outsiders point of view.. I noticed your avatar of the Reading F-unit.. Was that taken at Steamtown?
NO .. that shot was taken in Emmaus. The Reading Club ( I forget their name) was running a special every year that went down to Dillingersville on the Perkiomen sub. Their Steamer didn't show up ... instead they came with this one that year. Was great for me since I happen to like F models. I have nice collection of
traction pics ... If you'd like a copy of the original picture which the avatar comes from, leave your address on my channel and i'll send it too you !!!
OK, thanks.. Much appreciated
That was real nice. I will be watching for the upcoming videos this spring.
Thanks, Don.. I'll be looking forward to shooting the content :-)
Great work! I am a newbie railfan, and I learned a TON. I live less than a mile from the NS tracks at Center Street (Rt. 512) in Bethlehem. Usually two trips a day - both ways (9:30am then 5:00pm). Sometimes on Thursday Nights, LATE NIGHT trains. Love hearing them!
Thanks Man.. Glad you like!!
Excellent video AC! Nice catches and great info. Really cool that you saw the switching in Bethlehem.
Thanks Scott.. I actually saw the containers moving into Allentown Yard but couldn't get a shot of it :-(
What's up AC I like these videos a lot better where you narrate you're a good narrator I like your real fan documentaries very much good job my friend peace out into the world have a great day
Thanks, Austin.. Have a great day today and a better one tomorrow.
awesome catch of the Heritage Unit's and the Indiana SD90/43MAC #7337 & #7241. awesome power and lashup's. awesome catches. awesome video. learned something from this video and give me some of idea's to. when i go visit this place.
Thanks, Phil.. It's a lot better when the weather's warm!!
9:47 In 1999, Conrail was spilt inside the Norfolk Southern and inheralded some of the Conrails freight stations and houses.
We call that type of local with engines on both ends a push pull on the NS , that was probably an H11, H74 or H76. I work out of Allentown, great shots and videos from you guys.
Thanks, Mr. Sanchez.
Very nice overview of the home area.
Thanks, man.
I was born and raised in south bethlehem. We used to jump the trains all the time as kids. I knew a man who lost a leg from the knee down. Amplex St. Bethlehem, Pa.
Ouch!! Not a good memory.
7:28 Did you know that the 44 ton and 25 ton GE locomotives are dark blue C30-7s with brown rust all over it and removed headlights?
When you drive around it's not hard to notice that there seems to be areas where tracks used to be all over. It's because there used to be tracks everywhere! Allentown had a 4 track mainline cutting through it and even in my small home town there was a 3 track mainline!
Yeah, I know.. A-Town is very rich with history.. Sad that so much of it has disappeared.
Amazing video. Almost anywhere west of Burn you'll have no issues with getting the boot
Thanks, man.. I'll certainly take your word for that..
Locations:
Phillipsburg Railway Museum (Historians)
Freemansburg Industrial Track
B-town
CP-JU
Allentown Yard
Bethlehem Container Facility
CP Allen
CP Burn
CP Bethlehem
CP Phillipsburg
Central Railroad of NJ Phillipsburg Yard (with miniature railway included!)
The Black Bridge
PA/NJ State Line (near Phillipsburg)
Train 14R from Enola, PA to East Deerfield, MA (Taylor Yard on the Southern Tier area)
34:02 Check out those ex-KCS Southern Bell hoppers (These hoppers acquired by Kansas City Southern Railroad had been sold to COER leasing, they are going somewhere to be worked.)!!
CP Ham
YEP, I said it once ill say it over and over. Another SUPER Vid by A C. THANK U,THANK A C. ABOVE AND BEYOND SUPER.
Thanks, Richard.. Glad you liked.
Great stuff AC!
Thanks, man..
It should read, "NSC does own the line(s) but does not officially operate them."
I'm not sure what you mean.
You should look into Macungie PA. They ha a viewing pavilion right next to the main line.
Agreed!
@@EJStratMan1 hey Zion!
OK, so speaking of 16R out of Bingotown, will 5643 be overhauled for teardown by Pan Am POAY? It will, because 14R's itinerary was to bring back the ex-KCS Southern Belle hoppers and hand them to a POAY or RJAY or ED-8. Then CSX freight car train Q012 was to arrive in East Deerfield, Massachusetts to cut away the power, pickup the retired CN 5643, run around the train, let a Guilford locomotive get the COER hoppers, push them to the back of the Q012 and then the CSX intermodal cuts its way back to Maine as Pan Am CBTM (Cut Back to Maine) and then drop them on a storage track. A Pan Am RJAY would proceed past CBTM with Santa Fe C44-9W #654 leading and a BNSF SD70ACe-P4 trailing third. The RJAY could have originated from Rotterdam Junction, New York grain elevator but it only had 15 covered hoppers including one with the green BN logo on the side. An NS 23K intermodal train then met the Pan Am grain train RJAY with a Canadian National SD70ACe-P6 trailing behind a NS SD60. Pan Am's OCS then pulled to a siding in Maine because of the CBTM train leaving the yard. The dispatcher on the cab of RJAY (BNSF 654 Santa Fe Warbonnet, BNSF 5836 ES44C4 and BNSF SD70ACe-P4) has told CBTM to leave Maine and arrive in the Carolinas to park for the night before finally arriving in Atlanta, GA as NS 071 the next day.
Day 2
NS 071 (CSX Q012, Pan Am CBTM) came past when we arrived in Austell, GA. This is where Norfolk Southern's Atlanta North District connects Norfolk Southern's East End District. Before NS 071's CSX/PAS cut back train arrived, Norfolk Southern's 282 intermodal train came through with NS AC44C6M #4004 and NS AC44C6M #4005 (both specially painted as DC-AC conversion that was for rebuild at Juniata with a blue stripe on the cab) leading the train from Jacksonville, FL to Chicago. After the 282 passed by, the 071 got a clear signal to cross over tracks and finally arrive in Inman Yard to cut off the train. An extra NS C44-9W then hopped over to the yard tracks to grab the rear half of CBTM and then run as NS 099 from Atlanta, GA to Birmingham, AL via the East End District. After the 099's tail disappeared on the East End, we called it a day and fly home. Overall, very good info about the CSX/PAS/NS intermodal interchange between Massachusetts and Alabama.
14R just runs from Enola, PA to East Deerfield, MA. In a few weeks it will run as 16R back to Binghamton, NY from Bingotown to Massachusetts. So speaking of familiar faces, does anything in a locomotive consist look familiar all to you?
Great video as always.
I’ve been there a few times. There’s a MRRC called Lehigh & Keystone Model Railroad.
Cool, I didn't know that..
@@Trains21 it's a great layout, I highly recommend.
Knew the area because I live in Stewartsville,NJ and I'm always at the Old CRRNJ Sation location vicinity because there is a church and a cycle shop next to it. 2:00-5:00 at the CRRNJ Tower the track to the left is the Erie Lackawanna Railroad Phillipsburg Branch to Hackettstown NJ transit station. Triple Crown Roadrailer terminal is actually off exit 67 Interstate 78 Hellertown Bethlehem PA-412 by the old Reading RR shops now a Trans bridge lines 42nd Street Port Authority Bus Terminal to Sands Casino via Hellertown stop.
Epic response.. Thanks for sharing those memories and that info.
awesome job
Thanks, Sean
what a great video. keep up the great work, where is cp 87 and where do you get all your info regarding trains and routing.thanks, any help will be appreciated.
CP 87 is just east of CP Bethlehem.. I get info from all over including online and sometimes from hands on personal experience.
DL&W ran through Norwich NY years ago... now it's just out of service NYSW trackage.
Yeah, I know the line.. I've driven it all the way to Utica.. Very scenic, and very sad to see it going to rot.
one question. what does CP stand for?
great video! ill need to plan another railfan trip to Bethlehem, the'res a lot of rail action in the Leigh valley. also i never knew there was a museum in Philipsburg, ill have to check that out. keep up the good work -Alex.
CP stands for Canadian Pacific RR if you were referring to a Rail Company.
Canadian Pacific and/or 'Controlled Point'
In the context of this video it's Control Point.
Im not far from Phillipsburg NJ. How often does that train run thru there? At what times? Im new to this railfan thing. Im planning a trip to Altoona to check out the activity. Id like to visit Phillipsburg as well. Great vids. I subscribed.
What is that small track in the foreground a 4:30? Weird camera angle???
Norfolk Southern owns the yard at East Deerfield, Mass. along with the rest of the former Boston & Maine west end stretching as far east as Ayer, Mass. NSC does own the line(s), but does officially operate them. The operations are done by Springfield Terminal; a subsidiary of the former Guilford Transportation rebranded Pan Am Railways with the ST now being an entity of Pan Am Southern which is a joint venture of Pan Am Railways and Norfolk Southern. The interchange at East Deerfield would be what I'd term an administrative interchange, as NSC is still receiving haulage through ownership. Lastly, Norfolk Southern retains intermodal,automotive and marketing rights over these lines while Pan Am Railways markets industrial traffic, what little remains. Norfolk Southern seems to be increasing its equity stake in New England railroads. I'm now seeing their locomotives on the former CN line from Auburn, Maine to Montreal.Perhaps these great videos will come north to cover this?
Steven Connolly that's why the 14r is going from Sunbury to east Deerfield
I'm assuming that Pan Am interchanges with NS at Deerfield?
Yes and no.. Both NS and Pan Am Railways own an equal 50% stack in the Pan Am Southern between Ayer, MA and Mechanicville, NY.. The main freight yard on the line is at East Deerfield, MA so that's where the freights are made up and broken down.
How do you figure out what channels to tune in on your radio.
Really nice video
Thanks man
If where lucky, we’ll also have Amtrak running thru in a few years
Worked the area as Signal Maintainer for the CNJ
Bill Lazenby not Brodee Wood
Wow, that must've been great seeing the LV and CNJ and others in the flesh!! I wish I had your memories.
Well done and is there a track connection between the CNJ & PRR Delaware River Line currently used by the steam Excursion train volunteered there 6 years ago Thomas and Friends event July 2013.
I Love NS
I'm pretty fond of them too, post David Goode.
Nice work New Zealand railfan
Thanks Brian.. Greetings for America.
CP Burn and East Penn Jct are the same?
That's a new cars to me
gotta hand it to u. Y put post some cool freakin vids !
Thanks Davey boy.. I'm glad that you enjoy them.
I read somewhere they actually own Intermodal yard
I'm pretty sure that they do.
No, it's owned by Lehigh Valley Rail Management
They handle a substantial amount of merchandise freight also.
Just another goodun AC!
Thanks Mark!
Allentown isnt a friendly city since like the 80s or 90s
Agreed
It’s better now, but still nowhere near perfect. Easton I think is a lot worse.