Will we ever go back to China?
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- Опубліковано 30 тра 2024
- Just a little update explaining some of our longer term interests - hopefully this can explain some of what we're doing here :)
0:00 - Yeah, in 3 years 7 months
0:59 - Chris rants about culinary nationalism
3:36 - Why Thailand is relevant to our interests actually
8:46 - Why bother learning language?
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And check out our Patreon if you'd like to support the project!
/ chinesecookingdemystified - Навчання та стиль
Hey guys, a few notes:
1. A couple people on the Patreon Discord were joking that when I said the words "195 nation states", I was inadvertently wading into every geopolitical dispute on the planet simultaneously. The point of stating a specific number was to simply highlight the absurdity of the reduction - the figure itself was chosen rather mindlessly from a quick google (the number of the states in the United Nations seemed as neutral of a number as any).
2. The reason for the seemingly random rant on culinary nationalism was - especially given the current political climate - I felt like people might end up reading too much into things if we started the spiel from 3:36. We just find the food pathways relevant and interesting... we're not some sort of Pan-Thaiist Irredentists lol.
3. Someone in the comments found the video I was talking about. "Learning Languages Ruined My Life": ua-cam.com/video/ZZ_4gzoDDAE/v-deo.html Beautiful video
4. Hopefully the comparison between number was interesting - the point we were trying to show there (just in case it wasn't obvious) was to highlight the incredible similarity between Thai and Cantonese. It's a little more obvious at first blush once you consider 'et' (the number one when within a two digit number) in Thai and 'seung' (pair) in Cantonese, but hey. Besides that, they're dead ringers for eachother besides the number 'five'. The purpose of Burmese there was to give a point of comparison to another Southeast Asian language (which is also actually within the Sino-Tibetan language family).
5. Just like from our random Q&A with Steph a while back, I do feel the need to clarify that Cantonese is universally considered to be within the Sino-Tibetan language family. Thai is squarely within another language family, Tai-Kadai. There are undeniable similarities between the languages at the level of some really fundamental vocabulary, but the extent and implications of those connections are... hotly debatable. Neither of us are linguists, let alone historical linguists, let alone experts in this specific field. There's a lot of really interesting discussion out there on the topic, but we're probably not the best people to try to be summarizing it in a UA-cam video.
6. The Burmese audio was from here: ua-cam.com/video/ZSL0pwGIYTU/v-deo.html
7. In hindsight, the map at 7:32 wasn't a very good visual for 'flee elsewhere', as IIRC it was explicit NOT a map of migration routes. Apologies.
8. Oh, this was filmed in Yizhou, a quick drive away from Liuzhou in the Guangxi province. Now that the borders are open and our life's set up here, we're planning on popping back and forth a good bit more. Great trip - Liuzhou is a super charming city, definitely expect a couple Liuzhou/Yizhou inspired recipe videos in the medium term.
9. Lastly, super huge thank you to everyone that's supporting us on Patreon. This sort of direct support is 100% the reason we've been able to have the freedom pursue the stuff we find interesting, and not have to obsess over the machinations of the UA-cam algorithm/squeak out extra cents of monetization.
That's all I can think of for now, might edit in a few more notes in a bit :) Apologies again if this sort of video isn't your thing, we've got a spate of recipes we're excited about coming up
I compared number pronunciations between Korean, Japanese, Mandarin, Vietnamese and Cantonese and the least similar in pronunciation was between Cantonese and Mandarin. An oddly, the most similar were Cantonese and Korean - at least with the Sino-Korean numbers.
I really liked this video! Keep up the good work! ❤
Best of luck learning Thai! It's a wonderful language and I find speaking Thai to be easier than most other languages. SVO word order like in English, no conjugations, no gendered nouns, grammatically straight forward. Learning tones can trip foreigners up but since you already speak Mandarin and Cantonese it shouldn't be super unfamiliar territory. I find the hardest thing is learning to READ Thai. Thai is an Indic script which is chock-full of vestigial and silent spellings that were once pronounced long ago but are no longer. In that sense it's similar to English with all our non-intuitive spellings, exceptions and holdovers from Latin and French. On top of that, the letters are part of an abugida, not an alphabet with lots of archaic sounds and letters, many of which seem redundant (there are 6 different letters used to write the "T" sound for example). Moreover, vowels can be written above, below, before, after and all around consonants rather than simply from left to right and written Thai does not have periods or spaces to distinguish between sentences or words which is a whole headache unto itself. Knowing which spoken tone a written word is also requires a seemingly unnecessarily complex set of rules, though it becomes easier and more familiar as you get the hang of it. I would approach learning to read Thai the same way you learn to read Chinese characters--brute-force rote memorization. If you're looking for short cuts or consistent rules to Thai spelling and reading, you're going to be disappointed. Good luck!
@sunblock8717 Cheers :) To be completely honest, coming from Chinese I've found reading to be one of the 'easier' aspects haha - like, Chinese characters are beautiful, allow the written language to crisscross different spoken languages in a fascinating way... plus their modular nature does actually make some higher level concepts a little easier (for example the names of chemicals are a lot more approachable to a lay person in Chinese than English IMO). But as a learner? Having an alphabet - or I guess I should say an abugida, w/e - is SUPER SUPER nice lol
@@sparklesparklesparkle6318I had a similar thought before lol (Ethan look alike)
Being a channel called Chinese cooking demystified, it'd definitely be much more disappointing if you never found the opportunity to ask what Chinese cooking is and how the movement of ingredients and people shaped it without feeling limited to modern borders. Honestly it's really cool to see you dedicate so much to exploring those questions and passions. Developing your knowledge and sharing it might not be the same as academic research but your ideas about cooking and willingness to talk about cultural exchange do give you a unique insight that academia can miss.
It's easier to talk about food and language as if it pops up in one specific place all by itself but I really appreciate that you highlight how culture is fluid and always being exchanged.
I still remember your clarification of the "wet market" during the height of paranoia about the so-called "bat eating" Chinese. Thank you very much.
in the end it really was a virus escaping from the virology istitute just near that damn market, idk why everyone covered it up, probably to not scare people more.
Which video was this?
Oh god, that moral panic still pisses me off when I think about it
Yeah, and it turned out to be a bioweapon anyways
That was rhe first video i saw from them
As someone who grew up in south Louisiana and who studied the cuisines there professionally for two decades, yes. The notion that cuisines are ethnic (national) and not historical is really something we need to throw out the proverbial window. People move around the landscape for a variety of reasons and encounter all kinds of ideas in the process. The fact is that two families living next door to each other in Louisiana, one nominally Cajun and one nominally Creole, are more likely to make the same gumbo.
you KNOW one does a better seafood gumbo and one does a better chicken and sausage though lol. laissez les bons temps rouler from Texas!
Yes. OR.. completly different gumbos.. Gumbo is so door to door .. family to family.. generation to generation. Neighborhood to neighborhood. I love it all. :)
My mom showed me how to make tsaziki sauce when I was younger, not because there's a drop of Greek blood in our family but when my parents got married there was a new Greek gyro shop that opened up a couple blocks away and she asked the owners about the yogurt sauce.
Came to this channel for the food but stayed because of the history and cultural literacy.
It's the most interesting aspect of food to me (after "how it tastes", of course) and they do a really great job of it!
Very well said. I discovered them while trying to choose a FoodTube recipe for red-braised pork belly (and it's really good!), I wasn't expecting to also find a trove of fascinating historical info about traditional ingredients, techniques, and Chinese food culture generally. I've learned a lot about how Chinese people from different regions prefer their dishes, how they live and eat day-to-day or on special occasions, without the distractions of politics or social issues which one can find plenty of coverage about in other places. Great stuff.
Hey, even if you guys are transitioning to 'Asian Cooking Demystified' I would still stay. Because what I appreciate about this little channel of yours are not just the recipe, but the techniques, context, and history of the cuisine itself, as well as rigorous research you guys are doing in order to understand what went into the recipe you want to share with us. I kind of want to offer an idea for spin-off channel called that way, but I guess you guys are already very busy with this channel, so absolutely no pressure.
Also, just wanna say thanks for giving us, your audiences, new, wider appreciation for Chinese cuisine over the past few years. Greatly appreciated.
totally agree... why, if we're not suppose to get hung up on ideas of what food "is" in a particular country or region, should anyone care if your channel adheres to strict guidelines of what food you can present
As an anthropologist I gotta say you're doing great! Your fascination for all things small and your honesty about your own limitations while always anticipating that outcomes might surprise you is not only spot on anthropology-wise, it's also always a pleasure to watch. ;)
Really brilliant way to put it. This kind of solidified my thoughts when watching this video.
Nice to see an anthopologist here. I'm a historian and it sounds like we enjoy this channel for nearly identical reasons!
Probably one of my favorite channels on youtube. I've watched your videos several times through. I'm happy to follow your journey. Regarding food nationalism, it's a really interesting thing how some people can be so nationalist over things that we basically share with our neighbors. However, I think that the working class have no country.
I was not expecting to see Zomia pop in a video on this channel. I’ve only encountered it in puer tea enthusiast circles where the relationship between the mountainous geography, the indigenous people who love there, and the way they grow and process tea are very important to categorizing tea from these regions.
It was covered in an anthropology course I took on political land and seascapes of Southeast Asia! We had a section on geo-political shatter zones. I hope to rediscover it as I get more into tea
That language comment was beautiful. As a Chinese adoptee who doesn't speak Mandarin, but is trying to learn, that point makes my identity feel more complete.
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This video is so thoughtfully made, and you’re 100% correct in that human life and activities don’t necessarily correspond to the borders drawn on maps. One thing I personally love about your channel is that you go out of your way to show sort of… the ordinary life kind of food, and I think that’s great since it’s difficult to find that kind of thing here in Sweden.
One thing I love is finding similarities between cultures and cuisines that might be geographically distant. The whole “oh, that’s similar to what we have in my country, but with some different local ingredients” thing.
It’s my belief that every region on Earth has at least one incredible dish that’s local to that place, and I’m so happy that I get to learn about foods I’d never have heard of otherwise.
You guys are my favorite channel on UA-cam hands down. As a foodie polisci grad with an affinity for linguistics who also majored in Chinese, you’ve just distilled all of my passions into one video. I’m so excited for your linguistically-inspired culinary deep dive you’re taking. I was so geeked out this entire video. I’m so happy for y’all and I very eagerly await more content.
This is a very nuanced long-form thesis. I really appreciate it. I can see how you are giving yourself room - it can still go either way. I hope it works out. I do love what you talked about today though. Language, cuisine, “borders”, etc.
Love the critical reflexivity when you talk about the "Coastal Han Gaze". I'm a sociologist working with culinary cultures and their political materiality as one of my key research interest. I followed you guys in 2019, and have never stopped being amazed by you criticality and intellectual groundedness. As a Chinese in diaspora and a passionate home cook, I wholeheartedly thank you two for running this channel and being such a breath of fresh air on this often solipsistic food UA-cam. Hope you guys the best.
That was wonderful. So stepping into the diaspora shift of Chinese cooking becomes demystified. Nice.
This is such a good breakdown of methodological nationalism, both it's strengths and weaknesses. It applies to so, so many fields of enquiry
Agreed!! This channel is a wonder. As a food lover and linguistics nerd, the way that this channel has gone about explaning regional Chinese cuisine is so enjoyable, and I strive to share it when I can :)
You’re about to uncover the cuisine equivalent of structural linguistics with that Grimm’s law analogy. Joking aside, your channel is one of the best examples I have seen of making nuance attractive. I’ve got my PhD and I’m splitting hair all day long, so I can recognize a good communication job with subtle subjects. What you’re describing is a very fundamental aspect of Culture in the anthropological sense and I hope you keep making good content out of it. May the millions of subscribers rain upon your celestial channel.
Absolutely fantastic video. Your reflections on the relationship between language, culture, the "anthropological" encounter with difference and what nation states have to do with all of that is simply wonderful. Thank you for the reading recommendations!
This sounds great! Thank you for taking the time to explain it to us. Good luck and thank you for taking us along on your journey. Looks to be a fun ride!
I actually thoroughly appreciate you just up-front answering at the start. I was just curious as to the if and when, and you answered. You're getting a like even if I only watched the first minute or two of the video, just out of principle.
Really enjoyed this video! Thank you for going into it and showing the connection. Wishing you guys a great time in Thailand and looking forward to more cooking from you to come!
As so many people have said before: you are my favorite channel. Do whatever you want/need! I'll be there waiting. Best regards from Germany
Another interesting video Chris. I look forward to you guys' journey over the next four years.
Fantastic. I really appreciate the occasional peek behind the curtain of your channel. I love the approach you two seem to take on food culture. Really looking forward to more on this subject.
As an Aussie learning Japanese. I really connected with your views on language. Really wish you the best of luck and I’m loving your OTR videos.
510 sq kms instead of the 510 million square km... it's now VERY cozy, but apparently I needed that extra human touch, so thank you, and thanks for the informative update
I like the idea that learning a language demystifies that culture. It really fits the goal and name of your channel. Also I think it is similarly true for learning about the cuisine of a region. Watching your channel I didn‘t just learn how to cook delicious food, I also learned about the diversity and nuance of Chinese cultures in general
SO excited for you both! Looking forward to see what you document
Thanks for the explanation - this journey to other regions is certainly going to help with the demystification of Chinese cooking. And you've also hit on something I think is fundamental when talking about inter-group dynamics: fundamentally, all people are the same, so of course a flavour profile that's good to some is going to be good to others, too. Love your channel, please keep up the great work!
I'm Thai and have been watching your videos for a while now I actually learned a lot about how similar (and how different) Thai food is to Chinese food... Thanks a lot for that!
Really appreciate the update on this! I've always felt the move was smart and it has been very insightful to see your guys thought process on it. Do what you need to do! You guys know how to make great content. If you shed some audience here and there, you'll likely recover. Your guys content is polished and in depth and there's not that many channels quite like it. Good luck to you guys where ever you go! My fiance and I will always be watching!
I just hope you're both having fun.❤
Appreciate this grounded, thorough, yet humble explanation of the nuance of something that should be simple to understand. But our conditioning and training in how to understand the world, just makes it complicated.
as a person with mixed heritage (Chinese (my family never specified but likely Cantonese), T(h)ai and Lao) I can absolutely understand and love your reasoning for moving to Thailand. Though I have never formally learned any of the cuisines, a lot of your videos cover so many dishes from my childhood that it's often very difficult for me to distinguish which cuisine they are actually from; especially when you start subbing in western ingredients for veggies and other that are not readily available in Europe. It's a whole genre to study and i am totally here for it!
“Knowing the language makes it impossible to exoticise” is so very on point. If only the people who criticise (judge) expats/migrants could understand that. Once you live and speak a place it becomes real, warts and all.
I think it depends heavily on the expat in question. If it's someone who spent a long time in a different country and really did their best to both learn and internalize the language and culture of their host nation then I'd largely agree with your point. On the other hand, if we're talking about an expat whose cultural experience begins and ends at "live in X place because it's cheap and your American dollars go a long way and spend a lot of time with other expats that speak your language" then I'm more open to the criticism. From a personal perspective, when I lived in Beijing I definitely knew people whose main intersection with Chinese culture was going to WuDaoKou with other westerners to get drunk. IMO, if you spend a year in another country and every day you eat McDonalds, drink Starbucks and spend time mainly with other expats from your culture (or a similar one i.e. Europeans spending time with other Europeans) then did you really experience another culture for a year, or did you experience your own culture in a slightly different location?
I'm talking about people who speak the language and commit to living in the country, as per the quote.@@quintonhoffert6526
And complain about the political system daily, while being protected under the aegis of said political system, and given the blessing to work and stay in that location. I didn't say suck up to the man, but some people tend to think you get to live like a white person in any corner of the globe. @@quintonhoffert6526
@@quintonhoffert6526 Are those the kind of people who would even bother to learn the language though?
@@bearlytamedmodels Some of them, yes. I knew a few guys like that at Beijing Foreign Studies University, though it definitely was a minority of the expats I knew. My best guess is that they were trying to get into some cushy Chinese-based job, like translation or possibly government work. They weren't people I knew all that well (friends of a friend situation) so I could be wrong, and maybe I'm judging them unfairly. Nevertheless, my feeling from the few times we met was that they didn't care for China all that much and were mainly there to learn the skills they would need to make money in the future. Definitely fair considering how useful Mandarin can be as a skill on your resume, but I also wouldn't expect those people to have a very nuanced perspective on Chinese people and culture from the side of them I saw. I feel like you get to the point that @3LLT33 was talking about through cultural immersion, learning the language being merely a part of that process. Just learning the language on its own isn't enough if you're not particularly invested in everything else that goes into cultural immersion. That's my feeling, anyway.
I'm also not saying those people are bad people or anything, or that they're responsible for exoticizing China (or any other culture not part of their own). They seemed like perfectly fine people the few times we talked when we all went out for dinner together. I just don't know that I'd say I think they got as "real" of a perspective of daily life in China as most of the rest of us did considering that most of the things they did in China outside of going to school were things they could do in their own home cultures. Maybe they did that on their own time and not around me, though. Like I said, it's hard when its a "friends of a friend" situation.
I also don't drink, so maybe they got up to more cultural immersion at Chinese bars than I'd have expected given the area they frequented and people they went with.
Very long time viewer, always loved your work, but this is actually my favorite you have ever done because of things I feel regular “consumers” forget to delve into.
I followed you because I grew up with Cantonese people, and I always wanted to cook better food from that region. But I'm so glad that you seem like a cool, thoughtful, considerate guy.
Well that was one of the more interesting update videos I've seen from a youtuber. Your journey sounds exciting, bth food and life wise!
Beautiful sentiments, thanks for sharing 🙏🏽
Love your channel, and esp this refreshing critique of the nation form. Keep up the good work!
This is just such a wounderful video! Connecting a fundamental love for people, pushing aside ideas of nations, borders and states, to the appreciation of the culinary wonders made by billions of people every day is just beautiful.
I love these videos of you just talking to us. Great to see you again, Chris. Aloha from Hawaii.
Found your channel years ago when tried to make baozi (Chinese style) at home and love your accuracy and information on the ingredient aka you never take for granted on any ingredient.
Anyway, imagine how happy that you have move to Thailand. Welcome! Welcome! Hope to meet you face to face one day in the next 4 years to come😉
Super interesting! I personally think Asian cooking demystified would also be fascinating, but there’s obviously so much to learn just in the subset you’ve been teaching us about. Thank you so much for these videos and for this thoughtful and informative explanation as well!
Whatever you choose Chris and Steph, know that we are going to keep following you and your tasty recipes and history/culture lessons🙂
I have enjoyed your channel for years and wish y'all the best, whatever you choose to do. Many of the ingredients you mention aren't available in my neck of the woods so I've had to extrapolate. Many thanks for all the good ideas.
As an anarchist chef, I appreciate your insight on this. It's something I have been trying to teach people via cuisine for a decade now. Food has no borders. It's either good or it's not.
I would be curious to hear how you would connect anachist political theory to food ... That's not exactly easy to do, unless you are coooking in a commune.
@@RobespierreThePoof food, for the most part, is truly communal. While many in the West have lost the communal eating traditions, some still live on. To cook for someone else is the most anarchist act you could do. It means providing for them something the state and capitalism will not. One of the most revolutionary acts you can do these days is cook at home and cook for your community.
Plus, having worked in an industry that exploits the shit out of low paid labor, I know the struggles of the every American. I emphasize with the daily struggle of how do I eat, how do I keep the lights on, how do I pay rent, how do I not go insane and kill myself?
Furthermore, food knows no boundary. How many foods have infiltrated other cultures, even when that culture rejects them. The same American that eats Taco Bell on a weekly basis also rambles about illegals coming to "steal their jobs". We love good food, no matter who made it or where it came from. As an anarchist, food knows no borders and no states. It's either good or it isn't.
As a person who has travelled extensively throughout Asia, Africa, Middle East I found my entry into culture was thru food. It became very obvious how each area was influenced by their neighbour. For reasons you have stated trade, geographic areas of growing specific food, etc. I look forward to continued videos from you two. Love the channel!
Great video, man. You summarized a lot of my own general thoughts succinctly and articulatley.
I'm happy to hear you highlight the fascinating history of the Tai peoples and all their constituent ethnic groups. Their links with Chinese culture and history is also really cool to learn about.
Since I see you two are interested in that type of history I think another area of interest for you would be Assam. Specifically the Ahom kingdom which lasted from the 13th to 19th century. This is another Tai migration story from possibly Yunnan or the Shan autonomous region of Myanmar over to what's now Northwest India. Really interesting stuff to learn and I'm sure some really good food came out of it too, Indian & Yunnan/Tai fusion? What's not to like?
Oh 100%, Assam is absolutely a place that we want to go and learn more about :)
Thanks for the update, and hope you two are able to explore the culinary landscape to your hearts content! It's funny that you mention cosplaying as an anthropologist, because I know there are anthro's out there who would (minus the youtube gig) love to have the opportunity to study the cultural transmission of cuisine in a way you two are able to. I wouldn't discount the unique experiences you two have had as something intractably social-media oriented :)
Have i mentioned lately that I love you guys. First 3 minutes are EXCELLENT points!! Culinary anthropology is so cool just like you
I like that you show some of the origins of food. The channels Tasting History and Townsends do, too. And it just makes sense that the migrations of people and also families passing down recipes to descendants, and neighbors exchanging recipes all contribute to the various cuisines we find in the various “areas” of the world, as well as the common foods that exist in some areas too, with often lots of crossover. And it’s not a surprise that the true origins are hard to find. The channel Glen & Friends looks at “Old cookbooks” from The US and Canada and finds recipes that are similar or very different, mostly from late 1800’s into the 1900’s and just a generation ago, that explains some of the origins of American and Canadian food we eat now or at least recently. It is all really interesting to learn about foods and where they came from and how to make them.
Hope you're enjoying your time out in Thailand! Also I know you're just speaking at the camera, but you have such a good narrating voice! Def appreciate it
This is super interesting, thanks for sharing your insights.
I spent 15 years in Shanghai, and my partner is a Cambodian adoptee raised in Canada. Recently through 23 & Me we found out that he was 30% Cambodian, 30% Vietnamese and the rest was Dai and also Cantonese ancestry. I'd love to see more about these connections, and the migration history. I thought the illustration you did with the numbers was pretty cool. It's simple but it says a lot. I really liked the episode on Yaowarat and the Chaoshan influence there. You guys are awesome!
I enjoy that you're alive. Keep on kickin' it, and making great content.
What a strange thing to say.
Such an interesting video, lots of food for thought (excuse the pun). Thank you for sharing, and can't wait to see what you post next!
This is the level of nerdom about food that I admire immensely! So glad I found your channel ❤
As someone who admittedly never really uses recipes (strictly, that is) and rather cooks according to what is seasonal/cheap/in the fridge, I find these sorts of videos about culture and general principles far more interesting. I just wish you did more of them!
Hello from someone in the northwest US who occasionally thoroughly enjoys wok cooking... give me a cold day with homemade hot and sour soup, you'll hear lots of slurping and expressions of appreciation.😂 Enlightening to hear your perspective... encouraging to hear your heartfelt thoughts on this humble caring mission you both have to connect unassumingly more deeply with people, regions near you. Really wonderful... for some reason, made me quite joyful ... world needs this. Thank you for sharing, will tune in (sub) to hear the updates. Be well, safe, enjoy!
The thing about cuisine is that it's all about opinions and what connects with you. For me (and my girlfriend is from Dongbei which probably influences this), but I much prefer food from Northern China to Cantonese food. It's not just Dongbei food, but also Shandong food, Beijing food to a lesser extent too. Also a big fan of Xinjiang food and Lanzhou La Mian, and some Sichuan food. For me, I'm from the UK, and Cantonese food is by far the most widespread Chinese cuisine here (for 'historical reasons'). I never really enjoyed it, and for years I thought I just disliked Chinese food. I think it's that I dislike the seafood, fish and I'm not a big fan of sweet sauces on meats. I really enjoy the heavier savoury meat and DaMi/Potato dishes found in Northern China and Xinjiang respectively. I also like Korean food a lot. I think there's a lot of similarities between food from say, Jilin, and Korea (especially North Korea, with the eponymous Cold Noodles dish).
Snap! I'm English and never really enjoyed Chinese food here until I met my partner (she has been here 20 years, and was born in Xi'an) because it was largely Cantonese.
I much prefer Xi'an and Sichuan style, and cook a more Northern style at home.
My partner is pretty much British now as the only reason she would return is to see her family [parents] who are still in Xi'an. The rule of law (lack thereof) and the Cult of Personality around President Xi has finalised her decision.
Interesting. The regions you mentioned are also climatically closer to that of the UK, which also gives connections to ingredient commonalities, bodily nutrition requirements and palate "common sense". Perhaps you are unconsciously balancing yourself to your own physical environment!
Wonderful video, your purpose makes your vids more intriguing. I like your cooking as it is very good, but is also an extremely important repository of cooking history and knowledge and technique.
Spent two weeks touring Yunnan with a small group about 2002. Amazing scenery, corn fields at 10,000 ft. Deep canyons at the upper reaches of the Yangtze river. Food was delicious but it has been so long, I don't remember dishes. There is a tradition of pouring tea across the table in a laminar stream from long spouted teapots --- can't wait to see Steph demonstrate. ; )
I have many Vietnamese friends and I know a little bit of Cantonese. Occasionally I understand bits of what my Vietnamese friends are saying.
It's about food but also not about food.
I love how you share your passion! ❤
I studied Sanskrit in a formal setting. Never mastered it, but knew it well enough to have a short conversation in Bangkok with a Nepalese immigrant to Thailand. South East Asia looks very different to anyone with relevant language skills, and Sanskrit is relevant. I have no idea what your studies will pull forth, but it's certainly better than stumbling around in flip flops with muffler burns and other "strawberries".
I've always wondered how different Thai would look if we had come to it from Sanskrit/Pali direction instead of a Cantonese/Southern Chinese direction. Like, we can find all of these connections with Southern Chinese languages... but this's often less formal, more oral sort of stuff.
Like, the Zhuang word for 'you' is "mawz" (god I hate Zhuang romanization, it kinda sounds like "Mawng") - this's pretty close to the super super informal มึง, but obviously คุณ is very much from Sanskrit. It feels like it might be a little like English in a way (i.e. formal/written stuff having one origin, colloquial/oral language having another)
@@ChineseCookingDemystifiedOh, you would not have liked the 1957 Zhuang romanization, which was sort of pinyin with random Cyrillic and IPA letters thrown in to indicate tones-the 1982 did away with the non-Latin letters but used z, j, x, q, and h to mark tones after the syllable (similar to how written Hmong is spelled). I guess you get used to that sort of thing, but it’s like looking at a page of Gwoyeu Romatzyh! (I’ve never studied Zhuang, but I geek out on languages and writing systems, among other things.)
@@ChineseCookingDemystifiedSanskrit is an Indo-European language, thus it's distantly related to English.
@@kentsteinbrenner It is a little shocking that so many bad romanizations exist alongside really quite good romanizations like Hepburn Japanese. The gold standard of romanization should always be the closeness of unfamiliar foreigners in pronunciation.
@@Mr.ToadJanfu that's the main use for romanisations today, but many of the ones which are awful at that task were instead invented in a time when the main goal was use by natives and the (eventual) elimination of native character systems - and thus were made to be easier to approach for people already familiar with the language.
Two polar-opposite goals, introduction of foreigners to a new pronunciation versus fitting a new script into existing language use, naturally produce results useless for the other goal!
Thankfully, the (often colonially-motivated) push to eliminate native character writing has (almost entirely) subsided nowadays, so (most) modern romanisations are of the kind intended to help foreigners learn a language (or at least pronounce names from those languages somewhat-decently).
These alternate romanisation systems have a long tail though, since people who were young when earlier ones were introduced often don't want to switch to a newer one. Many (all?) IMEs accept multiple romanisation schemes seamlessly, so people can use whatever they're familiar with rather than being forced to learn a new one.
Eloquent, thoughtfully expressed. As a native Thai myself, I would love to see your exploration of the cuisine in this specific region.
I would kill to see the passion, curiosity, rigor, and celebration of food and culture that this channel embodies (perhaps better than any food-related channel on YT) applied to the foods and tea of Yunnan.
Love you guys. Live wherever that makes you happy!
👏🏽Fantastic update!
Thank you for the reading offerings.
Really appreciated the discussion on culinary nationalism, particularly given the rise in nationalism (culinary or otherwise) across the world in the past decade or so. Not only is it incredibly insular, and at times, apeing reactionary trends, but it also as you rightly noted, simplifies a complex and fascinating web of interactions across cultural-language borders. Thank you for engaging with this topic in a nuanced and non-click-baity manner!
Simply wonderful. Keep it up!
I think it's a very smart move! Just from a fresh content and life experience perspective it's great to have that new perspetive.
Great stuff, and good luck out there
Really looking forward to the future content.
I like the cooking content but honestly this is probably one of the better videos I've seen on youtube in a long time
wow very cool! lots to think about. I used to travel a lot and despite orders to the contrary I always tried the local cuisines preferably in local markets, and a little understanding of food and a honest attempt to communicate allows you to see that there are a lot more similarities than there are differences every where you go.
Yes, all of this. Food is so interesting exactly because it intersects with basically everything from economy to culture to history. There's a place for purely instructional videos but I'm happy this channel embraces the fascinating complexity of the world we live in.
I could listen to you talk forever. Drop the lit review, king 🙏
Just chiming in to say I’m another person (one of many, it seems) who will be eagerly watching as you explore this subject!
Very interesting and brilliantly articulated.
I speak four languages at this point and yeah, i am different when thinking in each of those but each new kne just adds to the rest, new nuances and new ways of expressing what we think
Hope that both of you enjoy your stay in Thailand and exploring the intricacies of food, culture and history. I think the historical relationship and climate contributed a lot to the similarities in cuisine and language.
Your cooking videos are very useful to many people and of a high quality.
On a side note, a channel that seems to be making videos exploring the same themes behind Thailand food history and the rest of the region is OTR Food and History. You might find some of their videos and references quoted relevant to your journey.
Ha, Adam is a close friend. Known him since 09... like, we stayed at his place for a month when we first came to Bangkok (the "Salt and Pepper [Anything]" video was actually filmed at theirs)
Helped him with a couple UA-cam sausage-making things when he was first getting started, it's been a lot of fun watching them grow. My favorite video is still the Curry Puff one though
Having traveled to the Northern part of Thailand specifically to visit these Chinese influenced areas, I can say you have a good plan. Honestly it is my favorite part of the country, so beautiful and diverse.
YES! And this why love you guys!
Your videos are nurturing. Nurturing intellectually and corporally. What could be more beautiful than achieving this. Will you guys do a book eventually?
I kinda sensed Scott coming up once you talked about the state as a standardisation machine. I'd like to hear more of your thoughts about this espc. given your exposure to very different regiments of standardisation and it's discontents in the course of your life.
Thank you! I adore your channel.
The food of a region (not necessarily a state or a nation since it's more about geography than it is about political borders) is always influenced by what grows there and who lived there and/or settled there, and it interacts with whatever is going on in neighboring regions. It becomes more of a continuum of cuisines than a sharp delineation of them. It seems to work the same way with languages and dialects.
I just want to say you two are so cute! I learned so much about Chinese cooking for these past few years. :-)
Appreciate you saving us the clickbait, and interested to hear your reasoning for the decision. :)
Love the structure of this vid! ur right man keep it up
These backgrounds are great!
I'm not normally a fan of artificial "portrait mode" because the edge-hairs getting blurred usually distracts me, but in this case there was so much fascinating detail in the backgrounds that I spent the whole time looking at them instead! Keeping an eye out for when the camera swings, so I can see what was previously behind you etc. Lovely scenery.
Being subtly blurred like this makes me want to paint some of these backgrounds, since matching the reference would have a much harder inherent limit on how much detail I could include before I'm just making stuff up.
Yeah it was 8:30am after a long night of deep fried chuans in Yizhou with an old friend... I kinda looked like death lol, the portrait mode was necessary in this specific occasion
@@ChineseCookingDemystified I totally understand! It worked rather well in this case :)
Really interesting thoughts ans perspectives!
For me, this was the most interesting video you've made so far...
geez man, you got me all goose bumps by giving James C Scott a mention here.
It sounds like you guys are going to be whipping up more food for thought and concepts to riff from so consider me very interested in your future. Thanks for the preview of days to come.
This mix of geography and cuisine is awesome. I really appreciate the effort to develop a meta-nation state food narrative that is more realistic.