MTB Myth Busting: can you actually "scoop" your pedals?
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
- #JeffKendallWeed #FlatPedals #MTBMythBusting
When riding flat pedals on a mountain bike, many folks claim to be “scooping” the bike up with their feet when bunnyhopping. Rather than “scooping, “ the term “unweighting” makes sense to me, as my feet are NOT lifting the bike at all. The term “scooping” made no sense to me, as it always seemed impossible to actually “scoop” the bike via a flat pedal. Charged with the challenge of putting this terminology to rest, I wanted to try building some flat pedals with a very low coefficient of friction- as well as with a shape that fully prevented any sort of actual “scoop” of the bicycle.
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I’ve always simply unweighted my feet by pulling them up towards my body- the skill of this is in pulling them up at the right speed, so that they don’t come up faster than the pedals, but fast enough that they don’t limit the bike’s upwards momentum- same as your rear foot when you ollie on a skateboard.
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The scoop doesn't come from the grip on the pedals it comes from the force of pushing backwards on the pedals while pushing forwards on the bars therefore having pedals with no traction makes no difference. Watching the video back in .25 speed proves this.
I don't even know what a "scoop" is but would say smooth - HORIZONTAL pedals would prevent scoop?
i do believe you are correct. He is scooping the whole time by pointing toes down and having opposing force on the bars.
Nah, doesn't prove it. What looks like what you're calling a scoop is not happening. The bike and his feet are traveling together. Same shit happens jumping a skateboard. It looks like the board is stuck to your feet but it ain't. They're just moving thru the air together. Jeff's test proves no scooping.
Pointing his toes down applies forces back in opposition to his arms. Let’s see you bunny hop and keep your heels dropped the whole time.
You can shove your bars and tuck your feet to get additional height when hopping or jumping, but I think the argument against "scooping" is where the upward momentum is coming from.
If you think about how you jump without a bike; you have to accelerate your body by pushing against the ground such that it overcomes the acceleration of gravity. It's the same thing with a bunny hop, but your bike is the ground and it comes with you when you both briefly become airborne.
This dudes in a pair of jeans, tennis shoes, and riding plywood and still better than me. Maybe I’m a better carpenter?
@@weathdone wood flat's with grip tape is maybe good for Asian countries were people only use slippers,, maybe it would feel good with anykinda shoes as long is it's not narly trial's
Most likely you are a far better carpenter than me LOL!!!
This was actually just a video of JKW flexing on us mere mortals.
This test also shows that your a mega talented rider. 🤙
You're*
Grammar Nazi! 💯👍🤣
@@leaferlite Ok, great
skill 1000
Jeff’s next video: are pedals even necessary?
I always thought the scooping thing was more of a mindset than an actual thing.
Maybe I am mistaken. Is the "scoop" not just the imaginary path that people think their feet are taking when learning how to bunny hop? Once you get better at bunny hopping better riders would probably consider it a different motion, but is it not just a thought to get used to the proper mechanics of doing a bunny hop?
Hypothesis : Scooping is not needed in bunny hopping.
Conclusion : The rider in the video is talented and I am not.
There's definitely somewhat of a scooping motion with your feet when you bunnyhop. Ssommeewhaaatt
Yeah but it is more used to controll the bunnyhop rather than lifting rear end
Yep, I figured this out a while ago. Glad you put this up!
Your riding skills are extreme but most of us are not like you. However, you proved it to a great extent that it can be done without scooping and pedal grip. I really learnt something new. Respect!!
Jeez, he could do bunny hop with no pedals and people would say he was still scooping.... I don't know.. the air?
“How can I disprove the internet” is my new favorite way to approach each day.
Plus what you are doing is what we used to call a monohop and it’s the pushing the bike forward after the front wheel is in the air. It’s the concept many riders are never able to get.
I hate to tell you Jeff, but that doesn't debunk anything. Of course you can bunnyhop without scooping- you can also hop with a flat tire or even a bare rim. The question is- would scooping make the hop higher/easier. For that you need to ride your slippery pedals, then try something with maximum scoopage and see if there's any difference.
Amusing video and sick riding as always, regardless!
I don't think people were saying you need to scoop to bunnyhop they were suggesting you can hop higher with a scoop. All the tutorials I've seen of bunny hopping where they hop higher than you mention the idea of a scoop
Ali Clarkson has a good video that demonstrates the scooping motion called, "How To Do MASSIVE Bunnyhops!"
No scoop , proper pressure direction on the pedals. Your styles are smooth and flowing great riding bro...You make it look easy .
This video literally proves nothing, they way you lift your back wheel on a bike is by thusting your weight forwards and pointing your pedals down while scooping your legs up exactly like what your doing in the video. Just because you removed the pins from your pedals and made them more slippery doesn't make it not scooping, its the technique man.
Jeff you are an amazing rider. Maybe not the greatest scientist.
Traction and friction are kinda same thing on pedals. There is still friction between your shoes and those wooden platforms on your pedals. So you have traction just a lot less. A lot less.
So it does not seem accurate to say you have “No Traction””
You could reduce the traction a lot more by coating those platforms with a nice thick layer of suspension grease and run the experiment again.
The pedal scoop may not be the primary mover when a super skilled rider like yourself is bunny hopping. But every bit of friction between the pedal and our shoes surly helps mere mortals like me.
Thank for the great video
The real question now is why are my shins scarred and bleeding? ;) i was doing the front wheel oh no don't endo from four feet and my foot came off and shin whacked into pedal quite hard. Blood pooling inside shoe. I like my old clipless pedals now more than before too sort of wish they were still on but not I learned a lot of terrible habits. Can't even bunny hop properly with flats. I'll look at your other video and see how motivated I am.
Jeff, your skills never cease to amaze me. You do what seem so difficult to me, and make it look so fluid, even in the worst of circumstances.
Hat's off to you bubba, I strive to ride this well before I croak. :rofl:
Not enough bmx background in these comments. Not enough folks who have climbed up between two walls either.
I like this style of video, it held my attention the entire time!
Are you saying that its not required or if its not ever supposed to happen because you were doing bunny hops and your muscle memory showed you trying to scoop
My worst shining was on a roller. I landed deep on the roller into the next transition, and I flew off my bike and head first into a tree, ripping my helmet straps out of the helmet, and getting a concussion.
Intresting video but i dont think this proves much. The scoop isnt coming from the traction of the pedals.
At first I thought you were making wooden Mtb flipflops...🤣. Thanks for taking the time to debunk.
I might have to put some anatomics 1000's on my cabin beater bike. Bare foot in jeans is how bikes are meant to be ridden.
Not when you have pins on your pedals!
But the splinters!!! 🤣
So you've created a slipper wooden clipless pedal? JK JK
Great stuff man
Love it Jeff, i recently learned wheelies/manuals and have many battle wounds from a pair of shimano saints...learned a lot from your how to video, thank you sir.
Scoopers = antivaxers
Think about doing a bunny hop on a scooter with a flat deck and nothing to scoop or even an ollie on a skateboard its all basically the same motion and none require a “scoop”
yeah I definitely dabbed and ripped a 5" long gash in the back of my calf which required 17 stitches...Still happily riding flats. Knocking on wood as I type this but...haven't broken any bones and a big part of that is because I was able to bail off the bike due to the flats in key moments.
this is amazing 😳. put grip tape on those wood pedals and you have an awesome flat pedal and sell it at Jenson 🤣
As an engineer this video frustrates me beyond belief. If you pause right at 3:00 you can see his feet are pointed. His feet look almost parallel to the ground but relative to the bike which is at like a 45-60 degree angle (depending where you pause it) his toes are "scooping" at about 45-60 degrees. This creates enough friction perpendicular to the bike to keep the pedals stuck to his feet. Think holding an object against a vertical wall, you need enough friction to keep it to the wall, but you don't actually have to lift it at all. If his feet were parallel to the his bike, not the ground, his feet would come flying off. He doesn't need to "scoop" vertically, it's scooping perpendicularly to the wheel base to rotate the rear tire up.
The use of grippy shoes and pedals make it much easier to create the required friction and give a much larger margin of error. Because he has such good technique, he can create the required friction with ease. You can still hold a bar of soap to the vertical wall without lifting it you just have to hold it harder than say a piece of paper because the bar of soap has less friction. But it can still be done.
LOL at the guy walking a cat on a leash and wearing a mask outside..
When you have a better bike track next to some random factory, than I have in my entire state, it's time to get the fuck out of Connecticut! Lol
You're crazy.... I love ya, but you're crazy man (Old School quote) LOL
Of course the worst injuries usually occur in the parking lot, so my worst shinner came when my friend and his kid built a bunny hop "machine". The kid was scared to try it. After explaining to him there was "nothing to fear, it's super easy, watch me" my foot came off the pedal on the 1st try. I shinned myself harder than I ever have, lost my other foot and rode my top tube down the street with both feet dragging behind me 😂
Thanks. This was fun to watch. I hope you didn't get too many splinters.
your very own slow motion proves foot position helps raise the bike, the wood actually helps to identify the foot action that assist the bike going upwards, this is my humble opinion
I’d like you see try the scoop test on a hardtail. You can just preload the full sus and make it hop that way.
I shouldn’t say this because I’m about to go for a ride and I’ll probably jinx myself, but I haven’t gotten a pedal-shinner since my bmx days as a teenager over 15 years ago. I don’t know how it’s possible because I’ve always switched back and forth from clips to flats on MTB. 🤷🏼♂️ “knock on wood”
Fantastic video, as always.
There was this time when I slipped a pedal after gapping into the long stair set behind the Whole Earth Restaurant. It took a while to pick off all of the little curls of skin.
Try putting pressure on the ball of your foot instead
I wanna learn to ride like you so badly....
Thanks Ness! Check my Patreon for over 50 of my riding tutorials! I've only posted a few publicly.
I'm gonna make some wooden flats with old-school toe clips... they will basically look like clogs lol!
I've never even heard about scooping your feet on a bunnyhop. You just pull up with your arms then jump with your legs.
Oh my god thx for that. When i started learning bunny hop i watched a video where scooping was recommended but i noticed you dont need it and was since then wondering if im doing it wrong
This video is entertaining. Please create a video with hartail mtb with rigid fork.
Incredible! You are legendary!
Not sure if this is helpful but scooping helps me to get high bunny hops on my bmx bike
Sick skills!
I rode 26” stock trials in the early ‘90s on flat pedals that didn’t even have pins, wearing Airwalk skate shoes. I never felt I had a problem gripping my pedals. I now have OneUp flat pedals and Five10 shoes and there is too much grip - you can’t even reposition your foot easily. I’m back running SPDs now anyway.
Back in the 90's we had bear trap pedals which are perfectly fine in terms of grip and still used in Trials to this days (sligthly slimer). For Mtb cage pedals are rubbish since you can't have the wedge shape which is important when you need to put your foot back on the pedal in a hurry. Try riding those infamous KORE square pedals and you will know why this is so important. Anyway grip between shoe/pedal is secondary, if you don't know how to scoop (toes down and opposite force between handlebar and pedals) it won't be of any use, and if you have the technique you can get away with pretty rubbish pedals like demonstrated here.
@@gg4760-k5n I hated those cage type pedals. I used to run GT’s DX style pedals with had ‘pins’ cast into the platform and had little grip.
lifelong trials rider here. i have never scooped anything but ice cream. The rear wheel is lifted with the handlebars. no matter how much i tried the scoop, it never did anything.
Scooping is in fact "real". The distinction should be made clear though, you don't NEED it to bunny hop. Just like you don't need to point your toes down when jumping. But doing those things will definitely help.
Just like you don't NEED clips. You just wish you had them so you're crutching with the scoop.
I would say I scoop when bunny hopping, jumping manualling. I ride flat pedals, however I dig my heels down to push the bike forward and lift the front wheel without pulling up the bars, which drives/scoops my bike from the legs. Had never thought of scooping as push back. Isn't that what xc riders do when they are clipped in?🤔
That manual barefoot. Total badass
Great video!
Fantastic video
Those flats might have more grip than a set of crankbro stamp 1 pedals. At least they are flat.
Great video Jeff, totally agree. Seems like upward momentum is from the squash and jumping up and the rear wheel lift is from the hands and feet pushing away from each other to create ‘tension’. Kinda a like when climbing up a door frame
OMG! Awesome! I had really good laughs!! Thanks a lot. Now I’m going to ask @Sam Pilgrim to copy your wood pedals and send a 360 backflip tail whip.
Wood pedals win medals
Laughed so hard
Now you're just showing off...:) Great video.
Put that wood on ebay Jeff, would bring thousands. Tell them JKW owned wood.
How do you do a European bunny hop without scooping your feet? Even when he was going up the stairs he angle his toes down to scoop his feet up.
the bottom of a foot cant scoop, only push. toe hooking the pedal with the top of the foot would be scooping a pedal to add actual lift. Same a bunny hopping a unicycle.if both feet are on the tops of the pedals you can't actually scoop the bike up. You stand on the down pedal and toe hook the top pedal and tension them to lock the bike you can whip the bike anywhere you want. scooping with the foot implies toes up, pushing is toes down(digging would be a better term).
It's like an Ollie... Scoop doesn't really work but ok.
The Flat 🌎
Flat pedals no grip? Lol my Chesters chew my shoes up. Even the Alston set on my Commuter bike eat shoes.
Been using BMX pedals forever on MTB.. RIP 1664 Shaved Beaver Traps.
So this is more of a semantical argument of what you want to call scooping because you are scooping the rear here. So no myths busted. Video title might as well be guy scoops for 8 minutes. You are still lifting the rear with grip from the wood pedals. If the platforms were frictionless then maybe you couldn't actually scoop.
Strange video. You're "proving" that scooping isn't a thing...by showing that you, personally, don't do it. That's about as scientific as if I were to say that _everyone_ scoops because I do. It's even more pronounced when I'm pulling my back tire up onto obstacles after planting my front. It's quite handy, given how heavy my bike is.
Scooping is a thing. It's a thing you don't do. This conclusion brought to you by: Personal experience this video, and a little common sense.
Confused by the conclusion...to me it proves the exact opposite....those moves you did scoop your feet, very clear in.the video.
Maybe the correct meaning of scoop is lost from original English to US English?
But to me, you were scooping to the extreme in every move...ie dipping toes down, heels up, pressing sole of foot backwards into the pivoted pedal. Thats scooping...you defo did it!
Not sure about scooping if it helps or not,,i Guess it's slightly different methods,, but this Guy have the coolest bunny hops putting the handlebar all the way into he's tummy before pushing forward while on the highest point on the back wheel with perfect preload that bike would lift from the ground no matter if he scooping or not.. but I guess even if you not scoops just following the pedals with your feet kinda feels like a scooping motion even when not adding any force back-upwards.. anyways when I was a kid on BMX i did bunny hops with no speed at all to begin with and didn't even preload which I knew about just jumped pull 80 handlebars slightly backwards then hard forwards,, kinda like an Ollie,,,i still do something like that but also I'm not getting as high as This guy half maybe on a good day,,i just learned doing it fast up curbs to bicycle fast in the city on a BMX to school and stuff and my Bunny hop is just perfect for exactly that,,now that I getting into MTB in my older age i Guess i can modify it to get over small logs laying in the path/hiking trail (we don't have much mountain biking trails in Norway we just bicycling on the hiking trial's and it's only mountains in all directions.. some paths are used more the first time I saw a wooden drop i thougt ohh mountain bikers built this then it became winter and I saw the kid's training on ski jumping and realized that it wasn't really a drop
Good job Son. When I were a nipper all we had was wooden pedals. Looking forward to your next video when you do a day of wet technical downhill on a rigid mtb with bald hard compound tyres at 50psi and canti brakes ;)
You just casually threw that OSB in the garbage?! Damn right that's worth 50 bucks.
Scooping? Now ive heard everything....
You riding through the forest to banjo on barefeet made my girlfriend cackle like a witch. She knows nothing of the topic. Nicely done. And thanks for sharing such a world of wisdom.
If you want to do this and prove you don't use your feet you'll need to get a way to force you feet to stay absolutely level. As the other comments say in all your hops the front foot toe points down creating back pressure. also if that's true osb it has one super slick side and one side that is actually really grippe. The reason you loose your feet on climbs is you slow down and then point your toes. you cant weight down in to the pedal so you walk off it.
This is great - I bunny hopped 10 bricks height on my BMX in the 80s and never gave a thought to 'scooping' as nobody had mentioned it.
Pedal slip on entrance drop to "Canyon of fools". Was told by emt at Sedona Bike Festival to go get stitches on my shin but this "fool" stayed to drink beer and listen to music with my friends. It healed with real thin skin and still gives me trouble...
You biked up the stairs 😲 I can't wait till I'm able to do that and all the other cool stuff your able to do on a bike first thing first bunny hop!!!
damn JKW, making it look easy. SB130 LR?
Wow, I rode stock trials for years, never heard of “Scooping”. I guess woke style excuses are infecting riding now :/.. lame
Bro...do you even scoop? The scoop sends you lifted dude. lol! Thanks Jeff for 'clearing' this hurdle, liked your take.
Make the wooden pedals in "duck foot" form and you might be on to something. At least that's what Daffy and Donald tell me. Niche market, to be sure.
Myth busted. Pedal position probably promotes performance, scooping not perfunctory.
wow you are a really good rider
You could have added grip sheet and some screw pins through the board and it would a somewhat better test. It’s like you did it on purpose so it would definitely fail as opposed to maybe fail.
Scoop to me is just pulling the back of the bike up and slightly back then for a little extra twist your grips foward at the top. Last part might just be me but it used to help me get over a shopping cart.
2:28 you mention having no traction but you pull the pedal upwards when it's straight down? How the hell? I've watched it several times in slow-mo and your feet are flat on the pedals at like a 5 o'clock position... It just doesn't make sense how you pull up without being clipped-in? As someone who rides clipless I thought only we had this magic? Lol.
Edit: also what are your rebound settings in the rear? You obviously compress it a lot with some heavy pre-load so is it safe to say some of that pop is rebound? Or could you bunnyhop as high on a hardtail? Or I guess higher on a HT if its a dirtjumper or trials bike eh?
If you rely on being clipped in then you need to relearn bunny hops, not trying to sound rude, but your feet themselves don’t have much to do with the up motion of your bike.
@@NightlyElite Nobody said anything about relying on clips lmao. The point of the comment is that he pulled the pedal straight up while the pedal was down. Do you ride bikes? Do you understand the concept of pulling/lifting something upwards? If he has no traction or planted to the pedal in any way, how did he have the grip to pull the pedal up? If my pedals are down at 6 o'clock, I put my feet on them, and lift like Jeff did they "magically" stay at the 6 o'clock position... Now if I clip in, and do the same thing the pedal will actually come up. Since he's not clipped in, how is he pulling his* pedal straight up from a downward position? If you misconstrued that as I need clips to ride my bike then I got nothing for you haha.
Ever climbed up between two walls? Same principle. The bars are one wall, the pedals are the other, press out and you wedge yourself into the bike.
@@weedshoes5089 Are either of you actually reading the first comment and just assuming I'm talking about a bunnyhop? The timestamp, which is literally the first thing in my comment, references a point in time which he sitting still on the bike. Not moving. Not bunnyhopping. I am not referring to the "scoop" being mentioned or tested in the video. I am simply pointing out that while sitting still, not moving, not being clipped in, he somehow manages to pull his pedal up. How is this possible? Again not the bunnyhop, not the scoop, not the leveling of handelabars after pushing them out, etc. Simply sitting still and pulling your pedal up from a downward position. That's it.
Eh to answer my own question it looks like his foot does actually get stuck to the wood platform causing him to look down at it in confusion while pulling his pedal up and then the clip ends because his foot was stuck and didn't want to show it. Clearly his foot slides forwards and slips off but when he mentions no traction backwards his foot gets stuck and doesn't move at all. Then he performs the magic sticky shoes trick... Alright thanks for playing y'all and have a goodnight!
Grip tape and some pins on those bad boys and you have a sweet new product for Jenson to sell. The JKWPNW pedal.
Great skills:)
Top video jajajajaj now feel motivated to get on the trail mzself, what gest me going the longest while bike is *delta parole* or other rokk music!
Jeff just got skills period! you give him an MTB without pedals and will still do bunny hop
I think the problem here is that you can bunny hope with or without scoop but this video doesn't prove that scoop doesn't exist just that you can jump without
You're just insanely a great rider. After years & years of experience, it shows! You are truly a master of your bike.
So basically a bunny hop is just you jumping and pulling your bike with you via handlbars
Yes!!! Except you need to do a little bit of preloading the bike, and to push the bars forward once the front wheel is high enough.
Some people scoop more than others I scoop loads. I bought a pair of shoes that had a harder sole and I couldn’t scoop as much and I couldn’t ride properly
You should have put skateboard grip tape on your anatomical1000’s
I thought it was going to be a flip flop riding video.
I am always so damn impressed at how EASY you make this stuff look! SMH
Jeff, I think you just invented a new type of pedal. You should market those.