Engrams: Where Your Brain Keeps Memories
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- Опубліковано 11 бер 2020
- A memory isn’t stored in your brain in a neat little package, but is instead spread across a pattern of cells in different regions. What's more, understanding this process could open the door to better treatments for conditions like Alzheimer’s or PTSD.
Hosted by: Hank Green
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Eternal sunshine of Spotty the mouse
I need to see more of Hank doing "THIS!"
Dave and Gena I loved that!!!
Dave and Gena someone please make it a meme
Someone please make it a gif
I need to see more of Hank doing anything, he's so cute!
wr
My memory ain't what it used to be.
It bothers me sometimes, but the rest of the time I forget about it.
I'll remember that for when I'm older. But by then, I might have forgotten about it.
Scientists: *drag Povlov for his unethical experiments*
Also scientists: Let's give this mouse PTSD and then delete its memory lol
Can't be traumatized if it can't remember the trauma.
Yay for science!
Not PTSD, just association
I think it was more the kids he tortured that they were worried about.
If mice can somehow rebel against humanity, I'd totally understand why they would do it
@@dandanthedandan7558 I, for one, welcome our mice overlords
Me on my death bed, family gathered around me: *just...watch...me...do....this....*______😵
playing with memory editing...no big deal. nothing to see here, folks. nope. nothing bad could possibly come from this knowledge, someday. not at all.
Ψ You got a study on that or...
Not that you remember at least.
Thank you; I was asking myself "why isn't anyone scared, here?" The enormous potential for abuse is terrifying, especially when I know there are governments in the world that would not hesitate, and I doubt that the US government will pretend to resist much. "It's early days" so I probably won't have my memories edited by government agencies, but if something doesn't change soon, most of you will.
lol the crazy person deleted their reply so this thread looks a little wonky
@@zemorph42 It's pretty easy to plant fake memories or delete memories with current methods already...
I described a lot of my missing memories (from PTSD) as being in a box. Usually as a joke, you know, like "bad memories get put in the time-out box". However, doing this for 24 years seems to have had the side effect of... ruining my memory. I look forward to seeing how our understanding of memory progresses in the future.
My understanding of PTSD (from year 12 and undergraduate psych) is that memories that are traumatic can be consciously suppressed or subconsciously repressed. So potentially, your brain kind of DID put those bad memories in a box, it just also put a padlock on it and threw away the key
Kinda like Finn's "Vault" in Adventure Time.
Well I literally can't do that. Maybe because I suffered pretty serious brain damage at a young age or because I find it helpful to remember prior physical damage. Though it doesn't explain how I could possibly stay awake and alert while being bludgeoned by the Earth courtesy of gravity, struck by lightning, nearly drowned (once) or nearly crushed (more than once).
Seems like I should have PTSD, but apparently my brain said PTSD is literally BS you should be more concerned with all that physical damage to your body and pay attention to the crunchy joints.
Did I mention I was also impaled? Yeah I couldn't forget any of that.
Having PTSD depression, anxietyand a family that didn't believe in mental illness. I never took care of it for 24 years aswell actually. I finally got help in the last 6 months and am figuring things out constantly trying new meds. I can't remember anything and people would get mad. I started keeping a planner with me everywhere. My mind had suppressed so many memories. Yesterday was the anniversary of one of the tramatic ones that was suppressed I haven't thought of it in years. But I'm assuming since I've been on meds my brain is more clear and I remembered it like it was happening. I had a full blown panic attack my bf of 9 years tried to calm me but then I blacked out and when I came to he said I was attacking him kicking screaming clawing. He's much larger than me so he was able to pin me and keep me from hurting him or myself and just hugged me until I was ok. I don't deserve him. Thank God we live in a house last time this happened we were in an apartment. The cops got called.
Wow this was a long comment to say I know how you feel. Sorry
@@126shyhinata I'm so glad you're getting help, working on that myself.
Man, I’ve been curious about where a memory “lives” and from one-word into the title i learned more than my 10 years of aimless Internet searching
Yeah same! I've taken a Masters degree in Biomedical Science, with an appreciable neuroscience component, and I've never heard the term engram or a good explanation of where memories are stored! The usual answer your hear is "in the hippocampus," not in multiple neurons throughout the brain. This is such a good video. He explains the studies really well and their findings are amazing!
Tired of getting all of these rare, blue quality memories.
nice
Kudos to the mice, getting shocked, dissected and infected a lot for our better understanding.
I know memory engrams from Star Trek Voyager. On that show they screwed around with those in every way possible!
I love star trek!
Our understanding of psychology and neuroscience when I was studying psych in highschool: we literally have no idea where memories are stored, maybe that the hippocampus and the amygdala are involved
Us now: SO
@@Camelotsmoon oh yeah now I'm doing psych at university I am learning just how chaotic mental health treatment and research actually is 😅
When you said "watch me do this" I wasn't watching xD
Lol I was looking through the comments section
This reminds me of the book Recursion, by Blake Crouch. It dealt with locating, storing, and re-activating memories. It did, of course, have major consequences, so let's hope it doesn't go that way for us.
This research is scary.
it is scary but this can also find a cure to ptsd too
"its a little zap",yeah sure I'm that mice, now I'm traumatized for life
This stuff is mindbogglingly awesome
My lab does research in this exact field, thank you for shining the spot light on this for a bit. Now I have something to show prospective undergrads. Thank you and DFTBA
Do you think this can be used for evil?
10 years from now I'll come back with memory of Hank doing that.
Mentioning an image of where you left your keys reminded me that I have aphantasia. About four years ago you did a video on this subject. Anything new that might be worth a followup?
Isn't it enough to just feel, how far away it might be from this point in the room or another?
I'm not sure, how clear i'm seeing images, but i remember these direction and distance things very strongly
So we made mice haunted by constant fear of shocks or being stepped on? Great job, science.
Probably hard to get humans to volunteer for scientists to tinker with their brains. It's a tough call to make, but science/healthcare would be decades or more behind if we didn't have any way to perform experiments. :/
so what better than a steak
right, what right do we have to inflict pain on a defenseless animal? In the past when we hunted and ate animals it was fair game but now the animals have no choice and we don't have to do anything.
@@Victor-tl4dk the truth is we always had a choice - or always no choice - depending on whether you believe in free will in the first place. But no one can argue we absolutely needed meat, ever, to survive. Let's also not forget, that we too, are animals
Absolutely fascinating
I understand The nececity of those kind of studys, but I still feel sad for those mice :'(
Okay...now I can never ever unsee Hank doing that.
You could say it was your Destiny to create engrams
Kinda cool to see this guy still on here. Been a few years already, when it used to be only one Scishow channel. Everyday now, I can go to bed less stupid :-P
Insane episode id love to hear more about those virus with kill switchs for super-neurons
thanks for the video
5:28 - That's great, but I'm more interested in potentially finding a way to digitize memories for both evidentiary and documentary/legacy/backup purposes.
The results were interesting but those techniques they did the research with were even more impressive...
Yeah I agree. They described the studies and findings very well in this episode, a great watch!
Memory editing?
*Orwell intensifies *
Yay it's Hank!
Why is this not more popular?
Masters of Memory, able to edit, implant, and delete memories at a whim. More like Masters of Mouse Torture.
I've heard (0:07) that the general population can actually do this - see images in their minds.
And that some people cannot. I'd like to see some scishow about those who can't - and some details about those who can. How clear are the images? etc etc.
@@JohnSmith-ep6bj Aphantasia
I know someone who has aphantasia.
@@DragoNate I might too. Myself. This is something I've recently heard about and I'm trying to figure out exactly how lucid these "mind pictures" are for other people. And I can't seem to get a useful answer out of the people around me.
I can Remember photographs if I put the effort in and set my mind to it. But that's about it - and it's a .. not even an image. It's an *awareness* of what the photo should look like. Does the average person actually see IMAGES? Like, does that "mind palace" trick (do a search) actually make even the smallest bit of sense to everyone but me?
@@matthewharris-levesque5809 I will say that I can actually see pictures. Sometimes I can see them so vividly that I can pick out details or almost overlay it on the real world, like day dreaming. I'm not sure what the mind palace trick is, but I'l look it up.
@@matthewharris-levesque5809 I don't know if it can be considered an image? as it's not that i can see it through my eyes, just that its inside my head, which i guess is a weird concept and difficult to explain. Best I can give you is it's like a hazy photgraph. though I can see the full picture, some of the details of it are too blurry to see. like i can't see the faces, but ill understand who its supposed to be still. Like with my mum, I can see her hair down to some stray fly away hairs from when it was windy the last time i saw her, but I cant see her face, can't even remeber it to describe it too you. but i know its her, and ill recognise her when i see her again. Or with my cat, the only part of the image i can actually see is the 4 stripes on his forehead. Dreams work the same way, not all but some, like and a string of pictures almost like a video from a dream i had when i was really young (2-3 years old), or the set of 3 from a nightmare i had later on (9-10) and im 26 now. The simpler the memory or more impactful the clearer the cleaner the image is. unfortunatly i was in an accident a few years back with a brain injury, and since then alot more newer images are too blurry to make out clearly and i just have to fall back onto the parts i actually remember if i can. I now also have the problem of some memories and pictures i cant tell if they belong together, or say its from a dream, i might not know if it was a dream or was something real, or the other way around.
wonderful piece of information from scishow .who are you ? gods angel ? we look forward to getting more of such in near future .
Seagrams: Where I lose my memories.
All my life, people have been saying, "it's either this or that," and I have had no idea what "this" is. Now Hank finally demonstrates it and I was in the other room and now I'll NEVER know what "this" is.
If only scientists were working on a way for me to forget the trauma, but they're doing this instead.
imagine intelligent alien life being more evolved mice and they find out about stuff like this...
We're toast
I *love* that name. "Engram" it sounds super cool.
A book all about engrans called "Dianetics". Great book.
they figured out how to rewrite memory & relocate the target of our trauma in 2009 & 2012 & the CIA told hank he could *finally* let us *in* on it cuz it’s too late to stop them now
That concept was in Futurama, a story about a vale hiden under a glacier, where Neanderthal still exist.
“One of the great challenges in NDT fandom is realizing that he knows enough to think he's right about everything but not enough to realize that he could be wrong about everything” - me
My spouse has Autoimmune Encephalitis that has given them amnesia, short term memory issues and serious confabulation.
They need something repeated 100+ times to remember what they do, eat, etc. As the inflammation reduced they easily gain back old memories. Yet anything the confabulate and say they don't need repeating to remember.
That’s really cool but also like... terrifying???
"Engram" is the word used by scientologists to describe moments of pain that need to be "cleared" to create positive mental health. Yeah. There's that.
Hank: So...how do you find an engram?
Me: Well if you're just starting out in the EDZ you'll want to run some public events-
What I've learned from this videos is that these researchers may be the precursors to the villain Scarecrow.
I wonder where my hallucinations when I’m waking up are stored.
Forget who you are and let's go on an "Ego Trip." Total Recall.
I thought 'engram' was a made up word used in Star Trek.
[0:45] that really is in my brain now ❗
so basically. memory is a Bit code long enough to relate to an exact event. and the the recall is decripting that code.
so now test if the exact same experiences create the same pattern of nerons "saving" the data across other subjects.
if it does then maybe sharing memories might be possible. maybe that means every possible memory can exist within a mind and the secrets of the universe is just finding the right code to trigger the memory.
loosing memory could be a corrupted file or a damaged index file. the index file is the key to triggering specific memories for the individual.
May be a code but not identical in each of us as the memory gets imprinted in the brain. Many aspects may affect their coding formation involving neurons recruited dendrites axons and networks all based on prior experiences that will function as filters or biases assessing our reality.
The problem with manipulating memories the further back you go the more likely your going to change their expression and perhaps personality. I'm conflicted about zapping my PTSD away.
Based on our contemporary understanding of how things are encoded that's not exactly the problem that we have to deal with. One way to think of how memories are stored is to think of them like playing chords on a piano. It's a combination of keys played together that means something, individual notes go into it but each note is part of numerous chords.
One way in which we learn (including learning to respond as though someone is shooting at us when we hear a car backfire) is via transfer learning. Essentially, we notice "Hey, this has 6/8 notes in common with the chord that means dangerous gunfire. This is probably dangerous too." Moreover, if those 2 notes that don't overlap show up with the 6 that do often enough, you'll start to think those indicate danger as well.
The analogy kinda breaks down here. But the next step is that your brain updates where the keys are so that it can handle the widest variation possible with the smallest number of keys. So, it'll say "D and G are almost always played together. Whenever we see either of them, let's just call it F so we can use D and G for other things."
Unfortunately, unless this neural network explanation is wrong, it means that we'd never be able to laser away PTSD by tweaking the memory of the underlying event(s). Those neurons have too many other associations that are interpreted differently because it was there. So you can still have the trauma from an event even if that event is gone.
"Watch me do this!" 😂😍
There’s a really interesting way sleep interacts with this memory process as well. My last video talks about it if anyone’s interested.
Pra galera de Fortaleza;
São Braz já faz a parte de "manipulação" e "deletar" memórias há anos.
All this is to say, humanity is one step closer to getting rid of that awful memory I have of a nightmarish movie about a homicidal rat named Ben.
I'd be interested to see if the same patterns implanted into a different mouse results in it having the same memory. Can you teach a mouse to "remember" something it has never actually experienced? If so it seems like the very early stages of matrix-like instant learning.
5:28 About this "demystifying": although we can pinpoint which clusters of neurons are necessary to recall something and act accordingly (which is what allows us to tamper with the recalling with more accuracy than, say, just killing the subject), this is really not the same as pinpointing memory itself. The trouble is, memory doesn't work like the static magnetic data storage in hard drives, which is more akin to a library index than what we experience IRL - yet everyone seems to assume that _has_ to be the case, in some way or another. What these studies pinpoint are merely _hysteretical_ effects associated with recall; nothing else...
Just think, all our knowledge of human psychology comes from observing tortured animals and detailing exactly how they suffer.
Is conscientiousness extremely complicated or is it super simple and radical? Basically, can we chip away at figuring it out or do we just have to come up with an explanation in one fell swoop?
I was trying to forget you, now I'm crying cause I let you
Flowers for Algernon. That's all I'll say
Well, it isn't proven with this, that memory is actually stored in our brain. Engrams could be a kind of reference to memory.
This reminds me of the pokemon study
Andrew Wojtas can you explain?
How do you find an engram you ask? I remember a time when you could kill hive in a cave. Enough kills produced an engram... the good o'l days.
1 million deaths are not enough for master rahool!
Almost forgot to watch this
id absolutly love to have some bad memorys removed, not gonna lie, that would make me much more relaxed
This reminds me of an episode of Stargate SG1.
Which one?
Just realised how we're if not simulation then just clever programs that can make life from minimal hardware and adapt based on the surroundings. Its hardware, firmware, software, os, programming language, everything that you need currently to write a program and burn it into a chip that is integrated with the hardware that is the machine/robo. It has all been transcended into what we're aiming for atm. Everything has been revolutionised, all of the aspects. Are we truly conscious then or is it just as illusion of consciousness and we're just dumb machines doing what is intended of us, and there is a higher level to the consciousness.
This means I will soon be able to get a memory implant about being a super-spy on Mars.
0:07 *Aphantasiac screeching*
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.
I like Clementines.
"It's only a little zap" Multi mega VA zap, explodes mouse into carbon vapor.
I really like the word engram
LRH would be proud
Computers use binary codes, DNA adenine guanine thymine cytosine, the brain utilizes specific neuron’s dendritic and axonal network pathways to form and recollect memories as a code to form memories.
No images... I have a habit of keeping the keys in the door, if I lock the vehicle again.
But I can't picture things. Never have been able to, I have a badass memory, it's just when I close my eyes it is black slightly static background
*Mrs. Frisby has entered the chat*
Can we then manipulate the memory during the reconsideration phase?
Never can remember the location of anything I leave behind it's terrible. Everyone's always like put it in the same place every time.. I have that place but I usually loose stuff before it gets their. My boss gets mad about it he says adult should be able to remember where they leave things. Im always like so should kids guess I'm just broken
Cool... I wanna forget about someone completely.
Where do i sign up for the test experiments?
Alas, we got a Men In Black reference rather than Lacuna, Inc from Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind...
...officially bastards of memory? If your a mouse yeah, bastards of something alright.
Environmental details in present time with enough similarities to a past shock or trauma will re-stimulate a duplication of behaviour as a survival mechanism. It leads to many irrational responses in present moments however to our basic programming, it is completely rational to repeat a past behaviour because as irrational as it sounds, if the behaviour led to survival in the past, then it should work again. We are very vulnerable people. All of us. We are swimming in a sea of ancient triggers. Seldom few live a whole day in present time.
This sounds like the concept of maping and copying conciousness in the movie Chappie!
Spooky stuff
Wait... did I see this video before?
total recall
Who else was looking through the comments section when Hank said, "watch me do this"?
Is it just the brain though... Would reflex also make a memory because it feels like reliving the exact motion/s you made before so as to remember?
I am waiting for the gadget which will enable humans to cut/copy/paste/delete memories.
Engrams eh? No wonder i only get crappy memories, i'm still playing Destiny 2 even when logged off.
You can also whip somebody with a set of keys. Virtually no scarring, relatively lasting effects. Ask my mom. Step by step.
but what causes those neurons to fire in a specific pattern ?
Now : : I wait for the engram research to include a cellular matrix brain scan and backup ability to ensure a clean saved state of a mind. Digital consciousness 1 step closer ;))))
Personally, I've always viewed my brain like an internet. It's a system with built in fault tolerance and memory redundancy organized like a wiki. This seems to heavily support that.
Memories : Let's get physical physical!
So, how does this help me on trivia night at the bar ?