How Do They Get Away With This? | Gibson
Вставка
- Опубліковано 28 тра 2024
- Today I openly wonder... Let's talk about Gibson because I want an ESP M-I.
Time Stamps:
00:00 Into
01:40 The point
01:47 ESP vs Gibson
03:44 Gibson's legacy
04:38 Pricing vs QC
06:33 Overall sentiment & Biden...
06:52 ESP USA...total bummer man.
Soundcloud: / sir_shreddington
Buy my guitar, so I can get an M-1!
reverb.com/item/81794320-gibs...
#gibsonguitars #gibson #lespaul #espguitars
Sorry but binding bleed and trying to be historically accurate isn’t really a fair criticism at all. Gibson likely didn’t have the knowledge or technology in the 50s to avoid things like binding bleed so I’m not sure why you’re criticizing that now in 2024. And the reason your R8 has it is because most Gibson reissue customers want a Gibson built exactly like the original 50s models, even if that means some flaws like binding bleed. They are the OG with Fender and their name commands a higher price than a guitar of similar quality from another brand like Heritage or Eastman. It’s not a bad thing. Porsche and Ferrari do the same thing. If you don’t care for the name on the headstock or the history then there are numerous great brands to choose from, so not sure where the problem is.
That's a fair assessment on the R8, but like I mentioned to the other guy that brought up the binding bleed; don't get hung up on my one example that I gave. My point was that there are other issues with Gibson QC that I think Gibson fans are willing to overlook and shell out top dollar for. That being said, I still love my Custom and my R8. They are good ones.
@@sir.shreddington Got it, thanks for detailing that out. Yeah, I agree some QC issues that pop up on Gibsons is insane considering the price. Any guitar over $3K should be flawless from the factory. Glad your two Gibsons have been good ones. I’ve been fortunate too in that all my Gibsons have been great players but at the prices they ask all their guitars should be amazing and you shouldn’t have to hunt around for a good example.
Gibson quality control is spotty. I have never had a Gibson electric that was perfect. Even my custom shop Les Paul came with a piece of the nut hanging on from a hand cut. On the other hand, I had a Japanese-made Elitist Casino that was absolutely perfect. Also my Gibson acoustic is perfect. For some reason the build quality of their very expensive Gibson USA electrics is just not up to snuff IME.
Wow. The nut issue is just inexcusable. Especially for what they charge.
The market determines the price, both used and new. The fact that they retain resale value, often appreciating in value on their super premium limited releases, proves empirically that they are not overpriced. The question you need to ask is why ESP guitars don't retain their value? Why do people think ESP USA is crap and that ESP Japan is great? That certainly isn't Gibson's fault. I'm not sure what you are accusing them of "getting away with"? Building a more desirable product? I love ESP guitars. Not counting lunatic fringe guitars like Alembic or Minarik in the conversation they'd be my favorite brand after Gibson. Especially their show pieces. They're spectacular. But I also love Gibsons. And if given the choice of one as a desert island guitar, assuming I could choose the one I wanted, I'd choose a Gibson. I'm not a fan of 24 fret guitars, which is almost all ESPs. Except for their Les Paul knockoff and I'll just get a Les Paul instead of an expensive copy.
That bleeding dye and yellowing lacquer adds to the "mojo" of an older guitar. I don't like reliced guitars but when my '75 white LP custom's lacquer started to yellow (I bought it new) I loved it. And there might be less variation in ESPs, there's also a lot less hand labor. And that hand labor, which we pay extra for, again adds to the character. And I feel the processes they use that require the hand labor do add to the tone and playability. But with your sample sizes you can't be sure.
Binding bleed is not a QC flaw. It's because of the aniline dyes. They do that. And the reason they use aniline dye, hide glue in the Custom Shop (which is far fussier to work with), and Nitro finishes (more labor intensive and time consuming) is it's because it's what their customers demand. Same with the 17° headstock angle and no volute, which is why their headstocks are so fragile. They reduced their headstock angle to 14° IIRC, and people lost their minds. They added Volutes (my 75 LP has one) and people act like it ruins the comfort (I don't have any comfort issues). So, in the end, complain if you want to, but it's the market, Gibson's market, that dictates the things you are complaining about.
I’m speaking in generalities here, and 100% not complaining. Don’t get hung up on the one example of binding bleed that I shared. At least half of every Gibson I’ve ever played has had issues, and a lot of them were (other) issues with binding. Like noticeable imperfections.
And regarding pricing, just because pricing data points suggest a conclusion doesn’t mean people aren’t dumb for participating. Have 8 billion people ever been wrong before? Yes, and they often are.
I still stand by Gibson QC not being as consistent as other brands and Gibson fans overlooking a lot- which was the point of the video.
@@sir.shreddington Fair enough. I wish Gibsons, and everything else nice, were cheaper. I still think the question is what isn't ESP doing that's holding them back rather than looking at Gibson and trying to find fault in what they are doing. For me the only real complaint I have about ESP is the 24 fret design and they use SS frets. I think SS sounds bad and any money you might think you save by not requiring a re-fret, chewing through strings at a higher rate more than offsets that. And really, how many people wear out nickel frets and need to re-fret their guitars anyway?
@@Relayer6a I agree with you on SS frets, and tend to prefer nickel. And I certainly don't disagree with you about market forces dictating the price. I guess I'm just kind of confused at how much people are willing to pay for medium to top end Gibson's when there are some "high end" Gibsons out there that don't seem worth it to me. Like you initially alluded to, at the end of the day we vote on pricing with our own pocket books.
I'm seeing the same thing in the housing market as well, and it's super frustrating. Maybe some of that frustration translated over into this video!
@@sir.shreddington There's also the fact that I'm willing to accept minor cosmetic flaws. I know not everyone is. I look at the manufacturing process and hand work, understand that these are actually mass produced guitars and not built 1 at a time where they can take the time and care with each step to produce perfection. Plus I want these things done, Aniline dyes, hide glue, Nitro, set necks, etc... (I'd prefer shellac and vegetable dyes. Healthier for the people applying them and to the environment.) So I'm willing to accept the "flaws that come with the process.
Honestly, I love Gibsons pretty much for their design and ergonomics. Fenders don't really "fit" me and neither do a lot of other brands, I still love other guitars, but I get more enjoyment and less frustration out of Gibsons. What really bothers me about them is the price, I mean even Epiphones are starting to get up there. I honestly don't know how they justify their prices in the current marketplace, and they don't seem to show signs of changing any time soon.
That's fair. Personal preference is what it's about, and I'll never knock that. I agree though, at this point it is unquestionably apparent that the larger part of Gibson's marketing strategy is to cater to the "upper echelon" of purchasers. And frankly, as long as people are willing to pay for it, prices will continue to increase.
NGL the cheapest you can get an ESP branded guitar here is the 4500 euro kirk hammet signature. It literally start there, everything below that is E-II and LTD. You can get proper Gibbies for much less than that. (But yeah, will the quality be as consistent? Likely not)
Interesting. I was only considering the US market, since that's where I live. What do the E-IIs normally run someone from where you live? I haven't tried an E-II, but I did have a KH-2 from 92 that would probably be comparable quality.
@@sir.shreddington that seems to be the 2000 to 3500 euro range for E2. Used to be you got a full fledged ESP for 2000.
Hmmm sounds like you need a Navigator LP (ESP's "traditional" custom shop). I picked one up in Japan, and it's better than any of the Gibson Custom Shop's I've played. Pricey though (around the same price as a Gibson CS).
Interesting...I have not heard of Navigator LPs yet. I hope you didn't just send me down a rabbit hole!
You won't regret it. Unfortunately you can't really try before you buy (unless you take a trip to Japan). They're not sold in North America, as the shape of the body and headstock are exactly the same as a Les Paul, so it's a lawsuit waiting to happen from Gibson.
I love my Gibson Les Paul Traditional, but my Navigator is on another level. Easily as good as an R7/8/9/0, if not better. It's also cool having a traditional style guitar from the ESP Custom Shop.
I purchased a Tokai LC290S recently for $2,200. It is by far the BEST Les Paul I have ever played. I wanted to finally by a LP after playing for over 20 years (i only had a PRS 513 for the last 10 years) and I was completely let down by the Gibson USAs and Custom Shops. The Tokai sounds better than the USA Standards (more low end) and near identical to the Custom Shop Reissues. The finish and playability was far superior to the Gibsons. The Gibsons felt like they were rushed through production and cheaply made. I was left angry they thought they could sell such poorly made guitars especially at $7k.
I haven't checked out the Tokai stuff yet, but everyone raves about them. But yeah that's the thing with Gibson- you have to really give it a once over, and compare it with a group of guitars to make sure that the construction is solid.
I have a ESP LTD WA-600 Will Adler Signature which is a Les Paul type guitar which was made in Korea and only cost me £400. Gibson was a great brand which has been destroyed by hedge fund venture capitalist vampires. I own many other guitars most of which are Japanese made Ibanez, Charvel, Fender all made in Japan. I can think of no good reason to pay over the odds for a poorly made overpriced Gibson though I have always wanted a Gibson SG I would rather buy an FGN made SG as I know that it is a quality guitar made by Japanese craftsmen.
Gibson for me
Fair
I'd rather get an E-II and Edwards over ESP USA. If I can't get an ESP Japan, I'd rather save the money. That's just how it is. Just like who people treat Gibson and Epiphones, ESP USA is second-class citizen.
If you haven’t tried an ESP USA yet, give it a shot, you might change your mind. I’m still in love with mine
Patents, heritage... But yea you're not talking of custom Gibsons are you. But its cool you deem the lowest of quality with the highest of esps... Quite the brand, but yea humbucker patents, and fender patents on that esp, would the price be competing with the epiphones made in us? which like if you think about it. OH rite the bridge aswell... Nice kia, def better bang for buck.
I approve of this message. prove it by playing pls
I have no idea what you're trying to say.
@@sir.shreddington make a song, i'll make my own version of it and pay you jack. similar
I.must be lucky, I've owned Gibsons since 1983, from vintage early 60's to a 2019 with no problems. I'll stick with Gibson.
Fair. Everyone's experience is different
What a fantastic video have a wonderful weekend also i am not a fan of Gibson to be honest ❤❤❤❤❤❤😊😊😊😊😊😊
Thanks for watching!
Im done with Gibson
Purchased a Demo SG Special
They installed the wrong tuners and they used glue instead of placing threaded shaft tuners on it because the holes were too big for preassure bushings. Someone at the production line catched the issue then instead of fixing it properly they used glue
That's insane! And it wasn't disclosed when you bought it?? So how did you manage change the tuners? Were you able to?
I have been in the guitar retail and service biz for 40 years and I believe this young man fails to realize that the guitar market is NOT driven buy folks who can play guitar.
It is driven by delusional dreamers who literally could not strum Happy Birthday in BFlat if I invited them up on stage and even told them it was a I, V, I, IV progression.
Very, very few guitar buyers can play at all.
They could not even play a 3 chord blues without missing some changes during a 4 minute song.
Most absolutely simply can not play their guitar.
40+ years fixing folks guitars. I have heard them. Ugh!
If they road a bike as poorly as they play guitar, they would injure themselves before they got out of the bike store parking lot.
I am not mean. I am just honest. I have hosted a zillion blues jams and a half zillion bluegrass jams.
Maybe 5%of the total guitar owners can play guitar.
😆 this gave me a good laugh. You are right, I’m assuming people can play their instruments!!
@@sir.shreddington Lol...Even the guys who can sweep pick like Paul Gilbert mostly can not play.
I always invite folks up to sit in and most of the time almost NO one can really play.
They can do little tricks or a half dozen songs they have played for 15 years. Lol..
But if I wave 2 fingers so they know a 2minor(IIm) is coming up or if I tell them the IV chord walks to a minor 7 flat 5 they are lost.
I come from a background of a life of guitar jobs, as a kid I was a regional repair tech for Hoshino, SLM and C. Bruno. Later I toured with blues and R&B players and lots of top 40 dance and country and most guitar players can barely even play their favorite style.
They are Stevie Wonder's with a bunch of telescopes that they talk about the lense quality of. 🤔
Hahaha, true! I feel that if a person can't make something sound musical right away, they never will be able to. Blues has turned into SRV, whom I dislike because he played on 10 all the time, and havr forgotten about what playing blues is. Blues jams typically suck!
@@TeleCaster66 Amen! They should have used open blues jams at Guantanamo instead of waterboarding.
And amen on folks who only play SRV ish blues.
I come from way back when a guy had to know some chords and we all loved Bobby Blue Bland.
Today if I tell a guy the IV chord walks to a minor ,7 flat 5 he just looks lost.
If I raise 2 fingers to prompt him on a IIminor he thinks I am giving him a " Peace sign"...lol
Gibson has resale, thats about it. They have ZERO quality control
It seems like that's the general experience
They have good marketing though. Branding takes priority over everything for companies. A good business is when you can separate money from the fool. I would love to have business like Gibson. Sell the illusion to fools, nothing better than that. You may Gibson a scammer, but that's just good business.