Bronco Sport vs. RAV4 vs. Renegade vs. Crosstrek: Which Of These "Soft Roaders" Is Best OFF-Road?
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- In this episode of TFLtalk, Roman and Tommy discuss the red-hot Ford Bronco Sport alongside the Toyota RAV4, Jeep Renegade and Subaru Crosstrek. All of these cars have a more adventurous version, even if they are "soft roaders" compared to their more dedicated SUV counterparts (like the big Bronco). Which one of these cars is the best though?
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#BroncoSport #SubaruCrosstrek #ToyotaRAV4
Wow Subaru blacklist you guys for being honest I was going to buy a WRX but if that’s how they’re going to treat you guys I won’t be buying any Subaru products anytime soon they screwed up
My wife has a Crosstrek and loves it .
@@XA351GT the crosstrek is just an impreza Outback.
I guess the name confused people so they made a "new model". Same exact thing. Lifted impreza.
I seriously doubt you changed your large purchase decision on a vehicle because a YT channel got blacklisted from then manufacturer 😂
@@ShogunAutoworks and the outback is a lifted legacy , duh
you're gonna base your purchase on them getting blacklisted? what do you have to do with that ? im asking for a friend
Gotta agree with Tommy on Subarus and CVTs. Vast majority of their customers don't care what kind of transmission it has. They want good MPG with AWD at an affordable price.
My Subaru takes the Fairbanks Winters like a beast... Just saying
1st...AWD isn't 4WD. This goes for ALL the modern CUVs...Subie, Bronco Sport, Renegade/Compass, Cherokee, etc. There's no truly-locked center diff in most models. There's no decent 4lo in most models. Tires can't be upsized very much. Plastic and sheetmetal are vulnerable to trail damage. Most are FWD-based, FIS, unibody platforms. The "terrain modes" of most modern CUVs are BS, compared to true lockers in center and pumpkin diffs.
Note: A Rubicon has true lockers, as well as TCS (BrakeLok). It also has true 4lo.
The Subaru chain-driven CVT isn't actually the problem with the Crosstrek's AWD. The problem is using TCS only, INSTEAD OF center and rear LSDs or locking diffs. TCS cuts power to the wheels. Even a base Jeep YJ, XJ, or TJ locked the center. Older Subies could seemingly clamp the center better than present-day Subies. Some owners of older Subies even installed a manual switch to clamp the center.
Suzuki used a locking center in their economical SX4, so I know that it can be done for cheap. In the meantime...If you want better off-road traction in your modern Subie, install a rear locker for a few hundred $$. You'll also want armor, tires, and a winch. A Crosstrek will still never be a Wrangler or a Tacoma. Bodylifts and/or huge suspension lifts are not a likely possibility. Even a base YJ or XJ has at least a 2.72:1 low-range too, and I'm not even a fan of the unibody XJ, even though it has solid axles, a locked center, and true 4lo.
CVTs are used to maximize MPG, and they can do this well. My 2016 2.slo/CVT Crosstrek can average 40+MPG on my commute. Throw a rear locker, armor, and tires on your Crosstrek if you want it to be better offroad. Just don't expect it to be a Rubicon or a 4Runner TRD Pro when you leave the pavement.
The Bronco Sport Badlands, Maverick Tremor, and Cherokee Trailhawk are probably the best offroaders of the modern FIS unibody vehicles, but they can clamp some diffs well and have good power. The gearing is adequate too.
@@RKmndo I think you meant to reply to a different comment.
I love my 'Trek with the CVT. Good ability with great mileage. It's the Swiss army knife of small SUVs!
@@RKmndo thank you for the info!
No one looking at any of these is looking for Wrangler capability. You’d have to be insane to trade the creature comforts of a Bronco Sport for a 2-door base Wrangler with no A/C. That’s a toy for fun excursions. The Bronco isn’t a toy, it’s a daily driver.
Yeah. The Bronco is a beast and I've rented a wrangler for a trip and have friends with 4runners. But opted for the Sport simply because the Bronco/Wrangler/4runner would be a pita as a daily driver for me. And a Subaru/Sport/Rav4 makes more sense. More sense than the pristine mall crawlers i see around Southern California.
Exactly. People just can’t seem to accept that maybe a decent vehicle to have is something that’s comfortable and fairly fuel efficient combined with having some off-road capability. Realistically the bulk of people with “off-road vehicles” are on pavement 99% of the time anyway.
To me, my baby Bronco (big bend trim) has every single thing I want. I live out in the sticks and in the winter, when the roads get snow they get pretty treacherous. I needed something that can confidently traverse ruts, snow, and occasionally ice. The baby bronco can do all of that without a hitch. On the other hand, I have a 35 minute commute to work every day, and the baby bronco also does that awesomely, getting me close to 30 mpg. I also LOVE the heated seats when it's cold. And I love the way it looks. It's perfect, IMO.
Is the baby bronco large enough to fold the seats down and sleep in the back? It looks to short to sleep in and I'm only 5'9. I want an SUV that I can take camping and sleep inside the vehicle. I have a 4 inch memory foam mattress topper that I want to roll out inside and sleep on.
@@KPHVAC yes it surprisingly can and you can put a tent on the top, it's sturdy enough
How is your Bronco Sport doing for you after several months?
I agree with this 100% I finally got out of my Focus which was absolute garbage in any type of inclimate weather. Truly terrible. It even made me stress driving my work commute if the wind was blowing slightly. My 2023 Bronco Sport has given me the confidence back in driving on 99% of terrains and 100% of weather conditions. It's almost the perfect mix of off-road capabilities while being a great daily driver.
@KPHVAC I'm 5 9 and I also have a 4" memory foam mattress it definitely has enough room to stretch your legs out if you move the driver seat up a few inches, I leave the seat in position and sleep at an angle [me and my little dog] it's really comfortable I love it, when it gets a little cold I can start it in the middle of the night with the app on my phone and it will run for 15 minutes with the heater on and shut off, love my bronco big bend I just ordered some all terrain tires it's gonna look good 😊
A bronco sport badlands with front metal bash plate, beats all the other small suv and if you add the RTR 1.5” lift, there is no battle. To my opinion it is the best choice. The plant and car is new but Ford reacts very well to all few issues found. In 6 months, the bronco sport will be a top choices. The 2022 could be a top seller. This is the only one with the 4runner to have a trail mode which control the speed in front and reverse, also the front camera stays on while driving in trail mode and. The camera front and back have cleaning which is important in off road. This is the only one with 60cm water fording. Bronco sport is better than the rav4, crv, rogue, tucson, forester, even better than trailhawk that has tendency to cut the trail mode under certain speed i have seen in another video. The bronco with off road tyres beats all of them.. The seat are more confortable as well. Maybe you don’t have soft touch material like the other, and more plastic but they put it where it is needed. My pontiac vibe has full hard plastic with no soft touch surface, but the car is like new after 12 years. All the plastic are super solid and easy clean. Bronco sport has also better smart management system in the cargo.
So far we've been unable to find any upgrades, even from the dealer. What's this RTR 1.5" lift you mention? Link please? We'd love a lift and slightly more aggressive tires.
A 1.5" lifted Bronco Sport is nothing I'd trade my Renegade Trailhawk for.
It will be interesting to see what kind of use that rear end in the Bronco Sport will be able to put up with
I hope it finds its way to the Maverick!
You're both right about the Subaru. I think Subaru used to have a unique position as a good all road car that's great in the snow, but the competition has improved to the point that they need to up there game, especially since they don't offer a hybrid e tourque system like the rav4 prime.
I bought a new 2018 XViS (aka Crosstrek) and the best thing is it’s easy to get in and out of, easy to park, fuel consumption is more than acceptable,AWD all around competent feel in all weather with a real world relaxing drive.CVT totally acceptable - just start the thing ,point and go and that’s what the thing does well in the car park or the standard dirt road .
Most enjoyable car I ever had.😁(so far).
There is video of it with a 1 inch lift and tires at Moab rock crawling. The Bronco sport.
There’s a video of a stock Badlands making it up Hell’s Revenge.
I'm a wrangler fan any type of wrangler jeep ! I've bought started with a soft top sport new in 2013 and got hooked on the jeep 🚙. I've then bought new the sahara 4door sahara then the 4door soft top sport and then the 2door hard top sahara last the 2door Rubicon. Here in Colorado after having the 2door sahara and 2door sport I really liked the maneuverability in tight spots with the 2door so I went now with the Rubicon 2door.
While Subaru may be missing a small portion of the market because of the CVT, the fact that the Rav4 doesn't have a CVT but has more individual sales does not mean that the majority of buyers care about the transmission. This is a false correlation. Example: More people buy a Miata over a Morgan 3 wheel because the Miata has four wheels. Clearly people prefer four wheels in their two seater convertibles.
This is clearly not the reason why people buy more Miatas and the same can be said for the Rav4 vs Crosstrek. There are more factors when buying than just the transmission. I'm sure it factors into some peoples purchases but it is not the driving factor.
If the Rav and subi are in the mix, you're talking softroaders. The new bronco sport does seem to be more capable, and is a more direct comparison to some of the Jeep products. But rav and crosstrek, nope. You can still get plenty of great places, we love our Forester but I'm under no illusion that it's anything more than a forest road king.
Tommy was spot on, the transmission could be better but that's not what's holding it back. Very few buy a subi to actually off road. It's absolutely the people tommy defined. The Rav is living off the Toyota reputation of quality and reliability...my rav4 didn't fit that model tho, it had multiple problems. I've asked 3 friends if they know what transmission they had....and they had no idea, 2 had cvt. The market of people watching your channel is maybe 5 to 10% of the market actually buying Subarus.
The Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk and the Bronco Sport Badlands are definitely a level above the other stuff they would be compared to in their class.
@@tylergibson6418 The Badlands Bronco Sport has a torque based limited slip differential, so yes, it would be more capable than most other crossovers off road. It is expensive though (another site tested one that was 40k), and lower trims dont have the limited slip rear axle.
Love my Subaru
With that said. I drive the east cost beaches. Some of the softest sand you will ever find. I went with the manual to get away from the CVT but even this is only a compromise. They do make a duel range manual which is not available in the USA. As you said if they want to live up to the image “go anywhere” they should offer this option in the US.
Tommy is correct, as much we car guys know the difference majority of people have no clue. In general people want reliable, efficient and spacious high off the ground seating position compact SUVs! both RAV4 and Nissan rogue accommodate that. Especially RAV4 having a very reliable reputation makes it much easier buy for many people.
A smaller percentage of people like us "car guys" look for certain details in cars or trucks
I watch ur vids and i got a crosstrek cvt haha 🤣 also got a tacoma 4x4 2006 modified. Just love the subaru for cruising around , great mpg, and can drive some offroad when on vacations without going so hardcore.
I'm a big Subaru person. To solve this issue...why not do what toyota does and do a good torquey first gear and CVT from there. My 1998 and 2001 Subarus had/have great first gears. Other family member's 2019 forester has noticably lacking launching torque. Seems like a simple fix. I'm still getting a Crosstrek next round for the best ride around town and parks and keep my Diesel Canyon for off the beaten path and climbing 👍
In regards to the CVT, they both make good points. A lot of Subaru buyer's don't care what transmission is in it, they care about the brand, it's reputation, and the capability of the vehicle to do what they want it to do. HOWEVER, there are a lot of people who won't buy a Subaru cuz of the CVT. If Subaru put a traditional transmission, either auto or manual, the people who buy Subarus and don't care about transmissions will still buy the vehicles. With the auto, at least, even more people would buy them ON TOP of the people who don't care about transmissions. Roman is definitely correct, and while Tommy is technically correct, Roman's point of Subaru bolstering their sales with automatic transmissions is the real topic of that debate. Subaru should give the option, at least, to test the waters. Subaru is renowned to have good offroading capability, and a lot of people buy it with that in mind even if they aren't going offroad with it.
Enjoyed...Minnesota non-off roader. 99% urban, only 3 interstate freeways. Roads are plowed quickly...front wheel drive works fine. Likes:
1. 2000 Chevrolet 4 cylinder Tracker
2. Base 2dr rear wheel drive work trucks
3. Base Ford Maverick
4. First edition Ford Escape over Ford Bronco Sport
5. 4wd high-end 4dr pick-ups are soooo expensive you may as well be talking about Lear Executive airplanes
My mom just bought a Rav4 TRD Off Road. The parents already have a 4Runner, and they chose the Off Road mostly because she has to drive in the snow a ton in the summer. Perfect car for them... and they're Toyota fanboys. :-)
Nice job guys, love your video footage! Noticed the GoPro attached to the drivers door with either a magnet or a suction cup? Very clever! Not sure if you guys drew any real conclusions except for the Cherokee!
Of course Tommy has to be right on everything.
The Crosstrek is available with a manual transmission.
Definitely thought about a Subaru. CVT=#1 reason I did not.
Subaru recovery point question - I don't know if I dare show my Subaru face around here but I wanted to be outdoorsy and drive on Forest Service, fire, dirt roads etc. and something that handled well to drive around in the twisty canyons and such so I got a Crosstrek sport. I'm under no delusion that I bought a rock crawler but I'm concerned about the tow hook comments in the video-are you saying if I installed a legit steel aftermarket recovery hook into the front and back of my Crosstrek that it's only good enough to be winched onto a tow truck? I was hoping if I got stuck one of you big Wrangler boys would be able to pull me out using those. Is that wrong thinking?
I notice you guys completely left out talking about the Subaru Wilderness. Granted it has had a delayed release, but it has better stats and capabilities than any of these. Wonder how Dad is gonna handle that. "Well it passed all the tests, but it really didn't" ? You guys always test the weakest Subarus with the worst choice of motors against the best of the competition models when you compare dirt. Yeah, NEwsflash, your underpowered Crosstrek 2K is not gonna go up a steep rutted grade well.. But lets discuss the ones that are NOT underpowered. If your question is what is the best new softroader in this category, the answer is the Subaru Wilderness. It will run circles around the Rav4 and Bronco. More power, more tow capacity, more ground clearance, great tires from the factory, and Subarus improved for offroad AWD system that in this model at least has enough power left over after the lossy torque vectoring to handle even rough steep grades on loose gravel. And it gets decent mileage for what it is. This might be the LAST video in which you guys can get away with NOT mentioning or reviewing this. As a sidenote, the REAL 2022 offroader, the full sized Bronco, is AMAZING and will give Jeep a run for it's money in real offroading challenges. Databyter
I agree with you tommy, but is it possible that they don’t know anything about regular automatics? Another thing, I don’t want it for its other elephant in the room being the Boxer. But if it had more power, luxury, no boxer, and an automatic, I would probably get it.
The newer DI Turbo subarus like outback xt have more low end torque. It would be interesting to see if they do any better than the standard outback.
Hope you guys can test one eventually.
When the subject of Subaru comes up I think Tommy is more fair. Also Ryan of Driving sports TV has tested Subaru's off road. Admittedly they ain't rock crawlers, but some of them ain't as horrible as Roman thinks they are.
1) Subaru's advertising and marketing has been on their game. Subaru seems to able to have those 'fanboys' that will defend them to the end, and they get those new buys, many of them women, who find them handy and cute.
2) Many of your viewers are not watching one TFL channel, Roman; I for one am subscribed to six different TFL channels. Numbers are deceptive.
3) I can't believe that too many average American buyers are paying any attention to the Reviews on You Tube; they are buying a car 'cause it's pretty, comfortable, cheap or they hear that it's reliable. And, even when those viewers are usually more savvy and knowledgeable about cars, there are a lot of Subi owners who ignore your complains for whatever reason. A perfect example is the viewer who e-mailed you and asked for the best Subaru to keep up with his Jeep buddies . . . he's not listening to criticism about Subaru's, he is not listening to you or any other reviewer that says the Subaru is limited by the CVT; he wants another Subaru.
Pretty good video overall with great comparisons between them-BUT you keep focusing on the Bronco Sport being at the $40k mark and make the comment abut the Ranger being much cheaper. When have you actualy went to a car lot and priced a freaking vehicle? YOu will not find a 4x4 Ranger for less than $40k in a BASE model. You dropped your research ball on this one guys. FWIW, I just purchased a '23 Bronco Sport Badlands. For the money it is a great daily driver with 25+ MPG so far (and not even broke in) with good offroad capabilities.
I think the CVT definitely is a limiting factor in expanding the potential buyer market for Subarus. My first car is a Subaru and I'm a huge fanboy and even I have been reluctant to buy one purely based on the cvt. I think if they can continue to fine-tune them in such a way that it is not so noticeable under certain circumstances then eventually it will become irrelevant but for now it definitely takes away from the overall driving experience. Particularly when off-roading.
No, let’s start with the Sport. Time to fast forward....
The Bronco Sport is what the Original early 2000’s Escape should have evolved in to…
This would've been fun to listen to if Tommy could speak for at least a few minutes without his dad interrupting him.
Tommy's right!
I like the cvt, as long as it is reliable. Having gears makes no sense.
Thank you Tommy for mentioning the Honda Passport. I don't have one but like the fact that they have a great 3.5L-V6 and a 9-speed transmission.
Most 4WD or AWD cars most likely to handle snow covered streets, not for off-road or rock-crawling.
Looking at the toyota 4runner & Rav4 the 4runner is ~$10,000 more and the MPG is about half as much as the Rav4. So if yiu are going to do a lot of driving the differance is extreme. NOw you usually do not talk aftermarket parts but there are a couple of companies that ake skid plates and raising kits for the Rav4. They will reduce some of the peoblems that you have with the Rav4.
I have wanted a subaru for years but no dice because of the cvt. And I am a jeep guy.
I love you guys! Shout out to all the trailhawks owners.
We just traded in our Bronco. We loved the look of the car, but we wanted more rounded car. The paint and glass are TERRIBLE! After the dealership washed the car, it came out scratched on both the glass AND Paint. Also, the "stickers" on top melted! They could get parts for the car for 2 months. No garage remotes. No button to open the back, which is a pain when loading up the car. It has a small gas tank and you go through gas quickly. It started to make some noise after about a month....Just don't trust the first-year model cars. Buying another RAV4 hybrid. It has been a FABULOUS car!
Cvt was created in 1400 by Leonardo D.
Cvt is a deal breaker in any car! Same with timing belts.
Great summary at the end there, but I'm on the same page as Roman when it comes to off road vehicles. Can someone please tell me which car the hood in the background is?
Lincoln Continental
This all boils down to perception I think, as if you’re a brand loyalist then you’re going to think your brand is the best. Nothing against the bronco sport, I personally wish I’d have waited and gotten it instead of the RAV4 Adventure in 2019, BUT that’s only because I think it looks cooler. I’ve owned this one for 2 years now and am a rock climber so a lot of places we climb are off the beaten path and I’ve never had one issue. Granted we’re not rock crawling but short of that I’d put it right there with cherokees, bronco sports, etc...as most buyers of these aren’t looking to do any heavy off roading. So short of styling cues I really think that most of these are tit for tat in what we’re buying them for and you’re not going to be disappointed in any of them. So please stop with the it’s not a 4Runner, or a jeep, or you could’ve had one of those for a similar price because those of us buying these clearly aren’t looking for those. Also, I’m curious to know why you guys don’t do the same tests in the same spots when comparing vehicles? I know you sometimes do, but it seems like if you’re going to compare something you’d want the scenarios to be the same in order to see how they stack up. But I dunno, the bronco sport looks the best, but it’s smaller, and no more off road capable than any of these others I think.
If only we could get a Suzuki Jimny in North America...
Recreational vehicles have “CVTs that are meant to break”. If that statement is not misinformation, then I don’t know what the hell is.
Most customers in the category just want mall-poser. And probably being "capable" for off-road in case of emergency
I can't warm up to a CVT in any car. They simply lack the mechanics to keep from cratering if they are operated under severe conditions. Auto manufacturers use them because they are cheaper to build and do offer decent fuel economy. The only CVTs worth a darn are the Toyota hybrid CVTs because they aren't a chain-driven CVT, they use planetary gears. By the way, CVTs are nothing new--in industrial and agriculture machinery applications they are known as a "Reeves drive" and have been used for over a century.
you guys are the best :)
I will have to agree with the son with the argument over the CVT. The majority of people you talk to have no idea what kinds of transmissions are in cars and have no idea what the differences are. People who watch these videos, whether that's TFL truck, TFL car, TFL whatever, are inherently enthusiasts to watch ANY youtube video about cars, period. The majority of people out there don't watch ANY car channels, don't listen to ANY car podcasts. They are watching videos about funny animals and listening to true crime podcasts and have no clue what transmission is in their cars, lol.
lol I was listening to the part about the rav4 for going to starbucks while in line at starbucks in my rav4 😅
this...THIS will be the reason I don't get a RAV4
@@chrisdroste3296 mine is older. tacoma someday though...
My wife's 2003 Sequoia wont be sold, she'll leave me, lol. The Rav4 though is something she said she wants and we'll prob get and relegate the Sequoia for large capacity trips. Any feedback on the Rav4 you can share? This is coming from a Toyota fan, but drive a '12 Ram 2500 MegaCab because my Tundra couldn't pull the weight I needed it to and they refuse to import a diesel to the US, so I had to sell it.
@@user-ym9wb2mk5e I have a 4th generation AWD but I have a couple friends with the new 5th gens. pretty much all ravs seem to be simple, low-maintenance vehicles that are great if you live in a city or town but like to get out and explore sometimes. I've taken mine on a few slightly rocky and muddy trails and it has surprised me even with all season tires. I also parallel park frequently and the size makes that pretty easy. the little center diff lock button has been useful offroad and in the snow out here in colorado. definitely get one with AWD though!
Rav 4 is a damn good vehicle I have an older one with true full time 4wd. I live in Montana I take her in the mountains and can go place my buddy in his Chevy pick-up or Tahoe can't get even in deep snow. On highway icey and snowy best vehicle I've ever owned. When emergency driving conditions I take the rav instead of my 3/4 ton truck.
Dang...wife just bought an Escape Titanium Hybrid...I should have worked harder at convincing her to get a Bronco Sport!
You can buy your own bronco
Trade in wife and Escape, buy the full size Bronco at launch. Enjoy.
I understand a bit how you feel.
In December 2019, my wife bought us (my car-she paid for it) a 2020 Escape SE. Alas, the Bronco Sport wasn’t out yet. I think I could have persuaded her.
But, our off-roading days are over. (Fun times back in the 90’s)
Enjoy your Escape. We love ours.
i want to see a video of them all competing off road and see who the winner is.
Great videos, I've decided on a 2022 Bronco Sport. As mentioned - I would LOVE a big Bronco, it looks awesome. But when I take a good hard look at my needs, the bronco sport is more practical, and as expensive as it is, a Bronco sport with heated seats and steering wheel is still a lot cheaper than a big bronco with that same equipment.
We bought my wife a crosstrek 2 years ago and we love it. For everywhere she’s going to drive it it’s perfect and safe. We’re not going to take a $26k vehicle rock crawling or running through deep ruts. The cvt is fine because it’s gonna spend 90% of its life on asphalt or dirt roads. The crosstrek was also cheaper than any other 4x4/awd that we could find
Bronco sport is better 4x4, better suspension for fast speed off road, 60cm water fording. 30 degree attack , 33 departure and 20 degree crossover. 8.8 inch ground clearance. Real trail mode like the 4runner. Front and camera that stays on in trail mode with cleaning. Roof rack that can support very heavy loads. Recovery hooks in front. 400w inverter, horizontal and vertical divider and table in the cargo. Confortable seats with high safari roof. Metal bash plate under key components. Oil cooling 4x4. Rear dual clutch lock differential. Copilot 360 with lane keep assist , line centering, cruise control intelligent. Wireless charging. Good responsive screen with sync3. The engine is more powerful 250hp 277 torque. It accelerate around the 6s. It has track crumb with the gps integrated. Very Good heating and cooling, very fast. Very good light and can add 100 extensions by third party official partners. The back window can open for long stuff to transport. The bronco is the only one with real full size spare tyres. Cargo is very sturdy. It is made for rugged environments. Carabiner hooks in the cargo as well as light for camp ground. The tyres are bigger than other cars. And car is better than any other on bad road (welcome quebec)
Yea the Bronco Sport Badlands and Cherokee Trailhawk are more comparable to a 4Runner than to a Rav 4.
The bronco sport 2021 just earned Top Safety Pick+ award from IIHS. The best possible rating. I will buy the badlands in orange cyber. The bronco sport is the best off road small suv. The rav4 didn’t get the + IIHS rating. The bronco sport apparently excelled in every crash test even the most difficult small-overlap test which mimics an impact with a stationary barrier in the headlight area of a vehicle. ´The headlight system offered on all trims earned a Good rating (the best rating possible) while both the standard and optional crash prevention systems outperformed in IIHS evaluations’
I had a RAV4 AWD loaner a few years ago while my Tundra was in the shop, lucky timing as we happened get about 7-8 inches of snow. So I got to play with the AWD system a bit. Granted it was on pavement, but lets face it that's where people drive these crossovers. The AWD system combined with the cheap junk all season tires did very well. Never felt like I'd get stuck, and acceleration was pretty good considering the terrible tires...braking was good as well and was surprised given the tire type and I had several places where the show had gotten packed down to ice. Would I buy a RAV4, probably not, a Highlander would be the smallest I'd want to go personally.
The issues with cvts go beyond off roading capabilities. My son is a mechanic and have seem too many cvt fails. Many below 75k miles. Most people do not maintain (change fluid) the cvts and they are less forgiving to lack of maintenance than conventional trans. Many cvt are not repairable and cost between $5k and $10k to replace. Not every trans shop repairs the ones than can be repaired. The mpg benefit might not cover that. I recognize cvts are here to stay. But i will avoid them as long as i can and would only buy those vehicles new or with very low mileage so that i can maintain them as required (change fluid every 30-40k miles).
ok so how would an aftermarket trans cooler effect the life of the cvt?
If they dont follow the recommended maintenance schedule, is that not on the owners???
Guess when a large number of GM 6T70 and Ford 6F50 "true automatics" fail? Around 70k miles. I would know, I've only rebuilt about 50 of them. All modern transmissions are finicky, and fluid changes are vital to keeping them working. But for some reason the manufacturers keep trying to sell "maintenance free lifetime fluid" as part of the deal because they just don't care as long as it makes it past the warranty period (exception being VAG, you will void your warranty if you don't service your DSG at I believe it's 35k or 40k miles).
@@edsmith9855 the problem is they don't have a recommended service schedule. They try to sell them as 'sealed unit/maintenance free'. Bean counter logic: it just has to outlast the warranty.
I got my bronco badlands fully loaded for 35,000 out the door traded in my Rubicon gladiator and this baby bronco go anywhere the jeep would go I’ve seen videos of guys rock crawling and modified jeeps couldn’t get up and the baby bronco first trade drove right up the rocks like nothing these things are insane and sick for what they are
I have a "Baby Bronco," and I'm definitely not a hipster. I hunt, fish, camp, canoe, etc. I bought it because during the work week I need a reliable daily driver, with good gas mileage. It's more than capable of moderate off-roading. You know, what 99% of outdoor adventures do. People like to pretend as if their rock climbing their vehicle in the Utah backcountry 7 days a week...
I think Tommy is right on the Subaru topic……sorry Dad, your wrong! I bought a Crosstrek with a CVT and +100k later……I’d buy it again! It tows a motorcycle trailer, goes off road enough and deals with rain, snow and ice or the PNW perfectly! Your dad is looking at this as a Subaru hater and being the typical off road “Purist”. It’s not a Jeep! Subaru is looking at itself, they’re killing it (sales figures for their brand IS off the charts) because they don’t care about trying to out “off road” the other brands but about making their brand better to the people that are buying, or wanting to buy their cars. Unlike almost all the other brands, Subaru builds their own CVT and knows it well. They build the best CVT period. Tommy is right, people buy Subaru because they fit in to 95% of the public’s basic needs and have the ability to do enough off road. Listen, I’m an off road guy, I have a full size Bronco on order, I just dirt biked around the White Rim Trail in Moab and I am NOT selling the Crosstrek once the Bronco arrives……because my little CVT Crosstrek has given me zero issues towing my dirt bikes around, going to the store and going up any basic forest service road to go mountain biking or looking for a fishing hole. Please stop with this quest to keep on hating Subaru…….it’s obviously the reason they don’t care for you guys or want to do press stuff with you guys…..and I’m saying that as a fan of the show! Please Dad…….turn down the bias……you’re sounding like the grumbly old man!
Love our Bronco sport gets 25 to 30 mpg nice ride and the dog fits in the rear.✌🇺🇸
For the price the subaru crosstrek sport was the best option for me. Its been great so far. I dont rock crawl with it but i’ve done plenty of mild off roading to get to camp sites. I’ve been quite impressed with what it can do given what it is.
I've taken my stock, manual crosstrek rock crawling. Worked great!
I wondered if the last few manuals the Crosstrek had, worked better than the cvt.
Yes, people will always hate that non body on frame vehicles are going off road. But they need to understand we just want to go on mild unpaved roads to go camping!
I’m a 66 yo woman and I am not a car person, but during research for a new suv I have watched plenty of car videos and learned about the drawbacks of CVTs. I have definitely decided to not buy any car with a CVT even though it may have every other feature I want.
Roman always finding a way to plug a Wrangler or Tesla even if they are not in the vehicle class discussion.
I was thinking the same thing. Why the heck would anyone looking at off-road capable crossovers entertain a serious off-roader when they’re probably thinking more about the day-to-day comforts?
That and they are “sure” bronco sport will have problems even though they didn’t experience them. It’s called hatin y’all
Hahaha I showed friends what they thought about this before I got one. Some said "I'd rather get a range rover/wrangler/4runner/etc.". Like bruh its not even the same class of vehicle, and I wish someone would kick me in the nuts if I had $50g and spent it on a Range Rover out of all things.
I am in a Subaru Facebook group and I just can resume that there are some people that don't care which automatic transmission is build in, than there are some others that don't seem to be a fan but they protect the CVT (maybe for them is Subaru like the holy grail) and than there are the objectiv enthusiasts that like/love Subaru but don't like the CVT. I think NOBODY would complain if they would have a regular automatic.
Even if they sell like hot cakes, with a regular automatic transmission they would probably sell even hotter cakes.
What’s funny is TFL is located in Colorado. There are more Subarus than people here. 😂
Ford is really doing some great things. Both Broncos are way nicer than anything Jeep or any other company is producing....plus they look great. The F150 is incredible and the new Lightning is a game changer. Rebranding their electric SUVs as Mustang was brilliant for sales.
I love my Crosstrek and have the Manual transmission version. I agree about the CVT, that is why I want manual. There are some times off road where the car does because it doesn't have enough low end torque, but other than that it works great
Time to get a Renegade TH on Tommy's slip test & compare the 2! I wanted a Bronco Sport, but have a hard rule on buying 1st or 2nd year models...so will wait a couple years and decide. My 2019 Renegade TH will serve me well until Ford can sort out all the early model issues and let all the hype die down and prices (ie. rebates/dealer discounts) start arriving for the Bronco Sport. Great Podcast guys!
Agree. Would love to see that comparison and a true head to head of a Jeep Renegade Trailhawk and the Bronco Sport off-road model.
I’ve seen those renegades do some pretty impressive trails.
@@BBoyGIJons +1. My 2015 TH has brought me into and out of places where I was definitely thinking I shouldn't be here... I'm not going to Moab, but happy on my PNW trails until either of the Broncos make me want to switch, which includes being reliable. Otherwise, 6th gen 4runner is another strong contender.
I think a good way to view these "mid-roaders" is that they are vehicles that can get you to the trail-head, campground or other out-there places where you can then go hiking or do other outdoor activities. They aren't designed for all-day off-roading.
Like approach shoes in rock climbing.
Completely! Not everyone is going over rocks or dunes. I'm one who goes to mountains where hills and snow are the biggest things I encounter. It's the occasional adventure and need for capabilities for safety I'm looking at
Roman, you are a marketing genius. “Lets wait to talk about Bronco Sport until the end.” 👍🏻
I appreciate your thorough comparison. I think, aside from risks of the Bronco sport being loaned to you, there's a lot of videos of people driving up places much more challenging than what you guys had the opportunity to do. Vaughn took his up Hell's Revenge and even forgot to use the differential "lock". Obviously, it was a pretty pro driver behind the wheel so not your typical. Seeing someone else taking it beyond where most of us would, was great to see.
My Badlands does great in Anza Borrego, with 30" Falken AT3W's. Great review guys.
Just bought a baby bronco badlands 2023 and so far I love it. Had a Mercedes AMG prior and yes the luxury is gone but the mileage is so much better.
Roman is dead wrong on CVT's.
I mean yeah, they're awful. We hate them.
But people that buy them generally don't even know what those letters mean. And they don't care if you try to tell them. The people that care (in this segment) are two hops away from being statistically insignificant.
Let's be honest, you see way more wranglers, 4runners and landrovers on city and main st roads than on trails. It's all about status. People buy these vehicles to show off their status.....not their off roading capabilities. Just saying...
Got a bronco sport, took it off-road on a maybe 2.5 hour trail no stops all uphill mostly dirt and light rock obstacles, had no trouble with overheating, the base 4x4 will surprise you, picked up wheels and had no trouble putting the power down. Needs a slight lift, but I can think of very few instances where you’d need a rear lock or any of the extra goodies on the badlands to conquer a trail
I take it your Bronco Sport is a base model? Good to know the capabilities of a base model over all the upcharge higher end stuff. Trying to decide between a Bronco Sport and a 2 Door Bronco. Coming from an 88 Ford Bronco 2 I would rather stick to a 2 door with the regular 4WD system, and that manual transmission makes me lean towards the regular base model 2 Door Bronco. I don't go offroad far enough to really need lockers...and I'm sure in the near future I'll be able to find an aftermarket rear limited slip which would be plenty for anything I'll ever do. Not saying the Bronco Sport is bad, but I grew up with Broncos and they were 2 door body on frame vehicles so its hard to see a Bronco in any other configuration LOL.
“Right, so, let’s talk about the Bronco Sport!”
“Let’s not.”
Lmao.
What you guys were referring to as Old School vehicle camping vs now Overlanding (which I associate more with Jeeping and 4x4's actually), I actually belong to a few forums that do this sort of thing, and a lot of us call it trekking. What is a trek, well it is a Slow, Careful, journey. We aren't blazing across the desert in a 4Runner, or Rally vehicle, Or Rock Crawling the shortest way between two points. It is a planned careful trek in the Outback, where you know your vehicles limitations and go around obstacles that are too much, while using the hybrid capability of your softroader to get down some pretty rough paths and trails, with extended ground clearance, and some sort of Smart AWD system, hopefully combined with some sort of motor and transmission that can make up for the fact that your vehicle likely is a compromise that does not have a low range. Anyway, a lot of us call these softroader centric trips from camp to camp, "Trekking". Like the Starship Enterprise, we weren't in a race, we were just exploring. And it wasn't all about the obstacles, it was about the scenery, and being able to get closer to it. Databyter
My Dad who is 75 just bought a 2022 Bronco Sport Badlands. He loves it. Does everything he needs it to do.
The discussion concerning CVT was interesting. I feel Roman's opinion is based on older versions. In these versions, the engine is underpowered to begin with. Low power at low speed means a lot of slippage and they prevent damage by monitoring temperature. If it heats up it goes into limp mode. But newer models have more power, The Crosstrek has more power available now. The Outback now has a Turbo with a high torque CVT with an oil cooler and the Wilderness version even has lower final drive rations. Add a second X-mode and I think they could be much more capable. That being said, anytime you have to go very slow for any reason you will tax any CVT specially when your asking for torque like in deep or steep stuff. The traditional torque converter provides some torque multiplication in those conditions and usually have more heat dissipating capabilities so they will do better with weaker engines, but they can overheat. If Roman could try the newer Subaru's he may change his mind.
Really good information. Big thumbs up guys. ;-)
you should call them "Rough Roaders"
I bought the Bronco Sport Badlands Orange Cyber in June 2021 and two years later it works very well. Very happy with it. I took all options as this is probably my last car. I think it is very solid, plastics , leather seat, exterior paint and plastics, bumper, metal bash plates, i tell you it is solid. A car sent a big ice block on me on the highway that went under the bash plates it hit hard but the bronco sport badlands resisted well. No issues. I received multiple rock on the front glass and again it resisted well. I drove a trip of 3500km in 14 days and the car came back clean without any wash after a good rain in New Brinswick and Nova Scotia. The cat is a master on the snow. It drives super well on highway with lane centering assist and the security package works great. Never had issues with the screen and the phone connect immediately. Sounds insulation is the best i have seen and the audio system sounds great. I think it is worth the money they request when i bought it in 2021. Today the same model cost 8500$ Can more and the interest rate is double. Anyway i have paid it entirely after two years. I think it can last a long time. It seems super solid well over capable than the usage i do with it. Mainly for winter driving and camp site.
Excellent video--thanks, guys.
Can you please review the Crosstrek off-road with the manual transmission? I would hope it would fare better on the rougher terrain you're testing (hope=operative word).
agree, I would also love to see how it performs when compared to regular automatics and CVT´s, please do it!
My wife owned a 17 forester with a cvt. Didn’t matter to me at all. For your average buyer they could care less. People care more for mpg than anything.
Totally agree with Tommy on the Subaru CVT question: Sorry Roman, i'm a dad too and the grocery soccer moms and suburban dads want MPG and AWD, boxes checked.....oh and I love dogs
Subaru guys don’t care about the cvt. They care about practicality and AWD for snow. No Subaru owner is going rock crawling or mudding.
The Subaru oil burning affects models before 2017.
The Jeep Renegade Trailhawk stock is taller than the other models, has lower gearing than the other models, has beefier springs, front middle and gas tank skid plates, recovery hooks in the front and back, a really good 4x4 terrain management system, an effective brake-lock differential, and the approach/break over/departure angles all meet the TFL ORI criteria.
There are all kinds of videos of the baby jeep tackling fins and things, hells revenge (including hell’s gate), and other trails.
I’d love to see a head to head comparing the baby Jeep go against the baby Bronco.
30:49.
The Jeep is garbage
Jeep Trailhawk is good looking though … the Suburus all look too mom
I'm confused by this comparison as these vehicles do not all occupy the same segment. "Soft Roaders" or otherwise, this "comparison" plays like an ad hoc mashup of conveniently available stock.
For most buyers, "going off road" is cutting through that snowbank at the end of their driveway after a 10" snowfall in February. For that purpose, any of these suffice. And as far as your take on Subaru's CVT, I'm an owner of one and will say that they work fine under most circumstances and reward you with great fuel economy. Nobody buys a Crosstrek for rock crawling.
Finally, Nissan's CVT is a much more problematic design that uses a belt instead of a chain. Comparing it with Subaru's version is not fair. Please research the issue before broadcasting your opinion.
I have a crosstrek, I do like the car but not the CVT (except for the MPGs). It def limits where I can take the vehicle. Trading the CVT for a real transmission is the number one thing I’d change if I could. If I could get a low range transfer case and locker in it I’d really be stoked.
I think you guys are getting lost in car-guy thinking. - You have to remember that non-car-guy people (aka normal) will buy a vehicle because it looks cool. That’s all. Not a single care is given to all the stuff that we get excited about. It looks cool.
thats tru. i have gooten into car stuff alot in researching for my first car (crosstrek sport) but even if a car performed perfectly if it was dog shit ugly i would not buy it lol
I understand Tommy's point on the people that do buy Subaru probably don't care about the CVT. That being said I think Roman is right they could be selling more vehicles if they offered a proper automatic transmission. The people currently buying them will not care if Subaru changed to a traditional automatic but you will add buyers that do not want to drive a CVT.
Well said. I guess that vehicle would be the Cherokee. Mazda's new CX 50 will also be in that class.
Tommy is absolutely right about Subaru owners, they don't care about what transmission is in their cars as long as it works. I have friends who have had several Subaru vehicles & I can tell you that they don't even know what a CVT is & don't care at all.
Thay aren't car people, they just like their Subaru & the image that they feel it projects.
I'm a car person & not a Subaru fan at all but I respect my friend's perspective.
I bought a 2022 Outback because it was a practical family car. It has great safety ratings, awd that will get me through most all inclement weather I’d experience living in Texas, it gets decent gas mileage, and I feel like it’s good value for the money.
The only other cars I really wanted were a bronco sport badlands, or forester sport. Neither of those were readily available when I bought the Outback.
Great discussion on the “enthusiast bubble” and CVTs! This deserves to be brought up more often on other subjects. I’m team Tommy on this one.
The Toyota sales have nothing to do with the transmission and has everything to do with Toyotas reputation of running forever. Subaru sales will never equal Toyota sales for many many reason and none have to do with the transmission.
The Mitsubishi Eclipse Cross S-AWC should of been on this video. Its far more capable than what most reviewers show. I've had great success off-road
Good call they don’t get enough attention
I completely agree. When I talk to my friends, none of them know anything about CVT or Automatic or understand the difference. Us enthusiast sometimes get separated from the everyday people. Subaru also being such a small car company has to make sure they’re hitting the car gas mileage standard. What they could do is that use Toyota’s tech and use an automatic. If Toyota has such a big portion, they should tap into their resources.
Also, watching Driving Sports TV, Subaru don’t ever seem to struggle. I feel like you all are too opinionated about Subaru because of prior experiences.
@Mark Smeltzer Exactly. His channel just did a great video with the Crosstrek and Outback.