RC Basics: The importance of good linkage geometry

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  • Опубліковано 28 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 205

  • @alguiendeinternet2409
    @alguiendeinternet2409 25 днів тому +3

    Nah man, I didn't know a video from 7 years ago will solve all mi problems at the moment, im building a plane with a 3d program and thats exactly the info i need it. Its even better when you see that this great guy is still doing videos, cheers from spain sir 🤞

  • @RoboTekno
    @RoboTekno 7 років тому +21

    Although, sometimes a non-proportional control surface throw is desired, especially for a flying wing. Aileron differential is an example. It can be a desired trait for models that have an undesirable amount of adverse yaw when turning. A flying wing, designed to fly upright and without a rudder, may need some aileron differential to make the turns more coordinated. Aileron differential can also be a desired trait for gliders to reduce unwanted amounts of trim drag when turning in a thermal. Heck, aileron differential can also help prevent tip stalls in a low speed turn :-)
    On the other hand, you have to set up aileron differential correctly. If you reverse it by accident, you can make you model fly even worse and the chances of a tip stall go up.
    But yes, for my standard models like 3D planes and sporty planes, straight and parallel linkages are very predictable for inverted flight and make your control surface behave as you'd expect. There's nothing more annoying when your wing's control surface throws don't match, haha.

  • @BlacksheepMediaNZ
    @BlacksheepMediaNZ 7 років тому +8

    These are awesome. There is a real lack of information for those that are moving through to an intermediate level that are wanting to start tinkering. Keep up the good work

  • @James-gr6lx
    @James-gr6lx 7 років тому +76

    9 dislikes??? what is there not to like about this. its a fantastic video demostrating the correct control linkage set up. good job! 👍

    • @meltedgyrofpv8477
      @meltedgyrofpv8477 5 років тому

      James haters?

    • @felixh4294
      @felixh4294 4 роки тому +6

      they mad cuz they had poor linkage geometry

    • @sunnyfpv3694
      @sunnyfpv3694 3 роки тому

      10 dislikes a year its probably within normal self-dislike rate

    • @diogofidalgo2202
      @diogofidalgo2202 3 роки тому

      Maybe because they have a single round hole in the back of their boat and the wire bends there.

    • @dylanm.3692
      @dylanm.3692 2 роки тому +4

      Now there's zero dislikes, thanks to UA-cam's genius opinion canceling technology!

  • @mikh9202
    @mikh9202 7 років тому +3

    Thanks Bruce. Im in the middle of designing a 3D printed plane and i never even thought about this. Now i can make sure its right.

  • @asurasfpv9458
    @asurasfpv9458 6 років тому +6

    such a nice way in showing how the linkage geometry works - thanks for this very informative video.

  • @plankliveriesold
    @plankliveriesold 3 роки тому

    This makes it so much easier to understand being in the physical world over CGI. Thank you.

  • @podoclaste
    @podoclaste 5 років тому

    This was in my first batch of beginner's mistakes. The elders called it mechanical differential - I fixed it first thing that day and never made it again. Thank you for covering the basics.

  • @BikingVikingHH
    @BikingVikingHH 6 років тому

    Thank you! I built a combat wing, first go on a kit, no guides. Now I know why it liked to dive so much, and didn’t want to pull up. Back to the work table. Cheers Bruce!

  • @rodgrant8490
    @rodgrant8490 7 років тому +6

    Now you've explained this so eloquently, you'll have to do a section on ratio and resolution. Appreciate what you do for the hobby, your videos make it so much easier for me to explain tech & tricks to people. Thanks Bruce.

  • @taqyon
    @taqyon 7 років тому +1

    I've been doing it wrong for 5 years. So embarrassed. Very effective graphics, thank you Bruce.

  • @MrLuisgggg
    @MrLuisgggg 7 років тому +1

    Thanks again Bruce.
    Yesterday I was working in a new chinese wing, and had this very problem. Now I understand it all...
    You are not aware (or maybe yes?) of how much you are doing for our hobby.
    Cheers from the antipodes (Madrid)

  • @Pijawek
    @Pijawek 3 роки тому

    Holy shit.
    I've been fighting with an EPP model, building it without a manual. In EPO models I just installed the control horns where the producer told me to and never payed attention. In this one I had to choose the place myself and the control surfaces worked like crap. Thanks to Sir Bruce and this video I know now where's the problem!

  • @KcarlMarXs
    @KcarlMarXs 7 років тому +7

    Also, regarding torque- the center will give you the most torque(rotational force) for both up and down. you could customize the push rod to customize up/down needs on your aircraft.

  • @CarminesRCTipsandTricks
    @CarminesRCTipsandTricks 6 років тому +1

    Excellent Chewtorial !! The correct setup here gives you stable Control.
    One thing..... For a Pro Tip, on Ailerons ONLY. Having MORE up travel than down travel, actually allows for easier bank turning.
    This is because the air pressure is Higher UNDER the Wing than ABOVE it. For the less experienced, this particular *wonky" setup, works better for controlling Roll, without Rolling Over too easily! Just a thought.
    However, the one thing you pointed out that is VITAL, and should always be applied, is keeping the control horn Rod holes, in line with the pivot point! 👍👍

  • @Alejandro388
    @Alejandro388 5 років тому +1

    amazing nobody else on YT does these such important basics, THANK YOU!

  • @QuadDoc
    @QuadDoc 5 років тому +10

    It would be brilliant if you showed this in three different height holes. Some horns have adjustment holes on both ends... It would be awesome to show the geometry differences in this fashion! Thoughts?

    • @StiloFpv727
      @StiloFpv727 Рік тому

      Yes would also have liked to see that Bruce👍🛩️

  • @NQISSteve
    @NQISSteve 7 років тому +15

    This is why I love this man, great vid Bruce.

  • @mynameisprivate2101
    @mynameisprivate2101 7 років тому +30

    Best explanation I have seen good job.

  • @ruizinkpt
    @ruizinkpt 7 років тому +2

    Bruce, thanks for yet another very good educational video. Cheers from Portugal

  • @Helmet_Tester
    @Helmet_Tester 4 роки тому

    Just got back to flying again and doing searches for all the new things that have evolved in the hobby. Started with the Futaba FP-T6FG 72Mhz, my last radio was the 10CAG (one of the first programable radios). I just bought the Futaba T16SZ. Wow how things have changed. No matter what these new radios can do....they cannot correct bad geometry. (Ok, maybe they can, but how many hours to program out the error when all you have to do is mount your hardware correctly) This video is a must for anyone getting into the hobby. Fantastic visual using the latest computer aided CGI technology. Cheers Mate! Oh ya...what IS wrong with you people.... thumbs down? Really?

  • @keylitho
    @keylitho 7 років тому +5

    Great video... Really makes it clear.. And the inner drafter in me loves it.

  • @brod5352
    @brod5352 7 років тому +1

    I wish I had seen this video a long time ago. I learned the hard way. You might also talk about the little holes that go up and down the control horn and what happens when you connect at the top of the control horn vs the bottom. Big differences there as well. But a great video just the same. anyone who flies fixed wing will need to know this.

  • @phoenixrising4573
    @phoenixrising4573 7 років тому +4

    amazing that skills that have been forgotten as computer radios and pnf models have become more popular, and clubs have declined
    found my reversing you harnesses ( with tuning pots!) the other day. I can remember when they where the new hot technology. I also remember showing up to the field with a futaba 7c on fm and people having a fit wanting to look at it...

  • @jamiesumner8311
    @jamiesumner8311 2 роки тому

    This is really useful, was struggling for ages trying to get my rudder worling

  • @amitdevir5729
    @amitdevir5729 3 роки тому

    Hi Bruce. Good video. Topic not mentioned and just as important, is the additional rotational load (torque) required on the servo in moving the control surfaces when the positioning of the control horns and servo arms are not optimized to the geometry of the hinge system. Similarly, the additional resultant unnecessary strains on the control horn joints to the moving surfaces.

  • @SAFbikes
    @SAFbikes 7 років тому +1

    yes more technical stuff!! more advance stuff!! yes yes yes!! this is why i follow you.. been watching a lot of joshua bardwell videos and that got me thinking.. when am i going to get another great lesson from mr RCmodelreviews.. gotta love the accent as well

  • @Brobolio
    @Brobolio 7 років тому +4

    Good videos!! This is the difference between good fliers and lousy planes!!
    This is also the source of so many flutter problems!!
    I loved the graphics!!
    Keep the awesome work mate!!
    Saludos.

  • @flyrcm
    @flyrcm 5 років тому

    This is what I look for on a beginner's plane. It will tell me whether the student pay attention to small details.

  • @NicHolmes
    @NicHolmes 5 місяців тому

    Thats exactly how differential ailerons work, except you would need the horn on the underside of the control surface so you have more upward throw than downward throw to prevent adverse yaw and drag on the climbing wing in a turn.
    For rudder and elevator, you want it to be as you state.

  • @captainsledge7554
    @captainsledge7554 3 роки тому

    Your videos are always a pleasure to watch lol not only are you very good at explaining things, but also an excellent sense of humor

  • @noriyukitakashima
    @noriyukitakashima Рік тому

    This video was also helpful when using servos in robot design. Linkages with non-standard arrangements almost always do not work efficiently or as expected. This usually causes gimbal locking or unexpected cranking, causing servo overload, damage to the linkage base, and unnecessary debugging. thank you.

  • @noahprussia7622
    @noahprussia7622 6 років тому +1

    Very helpful! I was looking for this exact advice and it only took me a few hours and 3 months to finally find it.

  • @Cpt_Nathan
    @Cpt_Nathan 3 роки тому

    I hear this method of design and demonstration is called CAD (Cardboard Aided Design). Great video! Great job explaining!

  • @slothy89uni
    @slothy89uni 7 років тому

    It is probably worth making a follow-up to this for more advanced uses of offset geometry. Quite often we use these offset effects for good! For example, a full house glider, you want (in your words) "Snot loads of down" flaps for Crow Brakes (often more than 80 degrees) and a little bit of up, for full span aileron mixing, or camber/reflex.
    And the best way to do this is to have the servo arm offset as you do at 6:02. Using EPA and Subtrim on the radio to achieve the same effect tends to end up wasting servo torque and resolution as you can't use the full movements.

  • @rotormasher
    @rotormasher 7 років тому

    this is great Bruce, many of the new pilots really don't have a clue, nothing like having to set up a ccpm helicopter to learn and master control linkages! :)

  • @powerofdreamx
    @powerofdreamx Рік тому

    Exactly what I was looking for! Thank you as always. I appreciate you, sir.

  • @mikekushneryk9214
    @mikekushneryk9214 7 років тому +1

    Before computer radios I always used twice as much up aileron as down in my high lift wing airplanes (rigging arms and rods). This eliminated yaw due to the difference in the amount of pressure between the top and bottom of the wing. Some full sized aircraft, such as Cessna, used the same technique, although to a lesser amount of differential. With computer radios this differential can be done electronically (with differential or aileron/rudder inter-connect).

  • @FarmerFpv
    @FarmerFpv 7 років тому +8

    you should do a video on aileron differential on planes that don't have working rudders or simple bank and yank planes so they can still get some yaw effect when turning, I never seen a video on that. I mean I use it on some of my FPV planes like the nano skyhunter. and some bank and yank warbirds I own. would be an awesome video.
    cheers
    Farmer

  • @Valium_x
    @Valium_x 7 років тому +1

    thank you for this video Bruce, it helped me to work out why my RC helicopter was getting more pitch in one direction! I definitely got my patreon monies worth this month! keep em coming buddy!!!

  • @MichaelSmith-lj7nh
    @MichaelSmith-lj7nh 7 років тому +1

    Good to be reminded of the basics, thanks keep up the great work.

  • @haroldland4620
    @haroldland4620 4 роки тому

    Nice work Bruce! You're a talented teacher

  • @new.handle
    @new.handle 4 роки тому

    Same can be used for rc cars as well. Thank you sir for this video, it's very educational and easy to understand.

  • @drewhodge3820
    @drewhodge3820 7 років тому +2

    Fantastic Video Bruce.
    Keep up the great work.

  • @bokusimondesu
    @bokusimondesu 4 роки тому

    Thanks, glad that I stumbled on this just now. Nothing that I don't understand, but something that I haven't kept in mind.... 😅

  • @BNConnection
    @BNConnection 7 років тому +17

    Would you explain the mechanical advantage when using different combinations of hole selection in the control horns.

    • @shaider1982
      @shaider1982 3 роки тому

      For a four bar linkage like this, mech advantage varies as a function of the input angle for a given linkage length

    • @110101719
      @110101719 2 роки тому

      Has nothing to do with mechanical advantage really, it has to do more with the throw of the control surface. So say a beginner can have the linkages set for less thow, for less "immediate reaction" making it easier to learn. If your servos are having to work too hard there is either binding, or your servo is not strong enough for the application, ie needing a high torque servo. This is why matching the correct servo to the plane and flying type is so important, some planes will have a reccomend servo as well so you dont have to guess.

    • @szajba8106
      @szajba8106 2 роки тому

      @@110101719 there is actually an advantage. If you use the correct servo hole the servo will work in whole of its span. Let's say, you've used your furthest servo hole and the throws are too wide. So wide that you need to reduce them to 40% in your Tx - it means that the servo is working only in 40% of its swing, which makes it much more strained (arm ratio) and less precise. Also it could happen that you have a cheap/old tx in which you can't modify throws, selecting correct servo arm hole is critical here

  • @transfer2822
    @transfer2822 4 роки тому

    In fact, those problems could be used to make differential ailerons and have less sliding of the airplane. Everything is sin and cos :) Great explanation!

  • @TheJonesy837
    @TheJonesy837 7 років тому

    I used to do that for differential ailerons, great when you only had one servo for both. That way you could avoid adverse yaw by having more throw on the down going aileron, thus more drag on the correct wing for a nicer turn. As mentioned we now just install 2 servos and do it in the radio.

  • @johnshoosmith
    @johnshoosmith 13 днів тому

    Thank you so much for this demonstration
    The cgi is ferkin great!

  • @DualDesertEagle
    @DualDesertEagle 6 років тому

    From the second RC plane I've built in my life onwards (didn't really care a whole lot when I made my first one, and even there I made at least sure that the servo arms were as close to a 90 degree angle to the body as I could get them) I've always paid attention to this. I may have had the control horns just a hair or here and there but unless the servo sat a whole lot out of line with the control surface where I had to change the whole angle of the linkage (just think dual rudders with a single servo on like an F-18) I always made sure to have the line from the hinge to the linkage hole as perpendicular to the control surface as possible.

  • @jonbbaca5580
    @jonbbaca5580 7 років тому +13

    love these basics videos!

  • @tedmichel8999
    @tedmichel8999 7 років тому +1

    Nice video Bruce..... Would also be nice for you to make us a video on how you set up your CG on the various wings that you fly

  • @junuhunuproductions
    @junuhunuproductions 7 років тому +1

    Thank you so much for sharing the knowledge! This is GREAT.

  • @meomuop8260
    @meomuop8260 3 роки тому

    Thank you very much, this video is a really big help for my project!

  • @maxxkax
    @maxxkax 7 років тому

    great video. I had this problem when connecting a servo to the FPV camera in a 210mm 5" quad. very tight space and I had to try out a lot of lengths and combinations before it worked.

    • @maxxkax
      @maxxkax 7 років тому

      how would you rigg a runcam eagle for instance? the holes where the camera is mounted at not allined in any obvious way with the holes in the backplate of the camera.

  • @michal.gawron
    @michal.gawron 7 років тому +11

    That CAD is called BruceCAD.

  • @garageadz
    @garageadz 7 років тому +1

    A Bruce this is a great video! I've been fling wings for a while and have a pesky Reflex38 that isn't quite right. Studying what you describe and going over my setup has revealed some build flaws thanks so much!

  • @rcplanepirate
    @rcplanepirate 7 років тому

    Nice one Bruce. I've always wondered what difference the angle makes. The thing is i've found that when you center a servo before installing it into a model when you fit the servo arm they are never straight! They angle one way or the other just moving it to the next tooth on the arm. Which is annoying. Think i will go back and redo some of my push rods to get the servo arms more centered. Cheers.

  • @weavostigercat2000
    @weavostigercat2000 7 років тому +1

    Bruce , what about using different holes on the servo arm or the control horn , which is better or worse ?
    Good basic vid , Graham

  • @arsitama
    @arsitama 7 років тому

    Great video Bruce. This day many foamy plane use only 1 servo for the aileron. I used to have one and I notice that the angle of the aileron up and down is not the same. Show us how to correctly use the correct servo arm, so the up and down angle will be the same.

  • @dergrunepunkt
    @dergrunepunkt 7 років тому

    Great video, I never paid enough attention to this geometry and I suffered the consequences. Thanks Bruce!. BTW those 3D graphics are awesome, they looked pretty much like real cardboard horns and servos!!!

  • @rcfly9524
    @rcfly9524 7 років тому +1

    Hi Bruce excellent explanation, can you do a video on the correct method of antenna placement on a model i.e. should it be at 45deg. or 90 deg or horizontal on a twin antenna rx or single antenna rx. Were is the best place or position to have it.
    Pete

  • @thepinkthink1298
    @thepinkthink1298 Рік тому

    The angle of hinge and pivot plays a critical role in movement and very imp. To the agility manuverablity of the aircraft.

  • @maccross2
    @maccross2 7 років тому +1

    Great video. Next the effect/advantages/disadvantages of long/small servo arm on long/small horns, please

  • @emanuelcosma8329
    @emanuelcosma8329 4 роки тому

    this opened me a new world

  • @fister91cam
    @fister91cam 7 років тому +1

    Thanks for this! Now I have to go check and possibly tear off the linkages on all my scratch builds.

  • @MrSpikebender
    @MrSpikebender 5 років тому +1

    Bummer I just finished building my first fixed yesterday this is the info I had the hardest time to find, until today

  • @williamstones1773
    @williamstones1773 6 років тому +1

    Just what I needed to watch. Thanks!

  • @kaichristiansen8110
    @kaichristiansen8110 5 років тому +1

    Great video. Really helpful.

  • @johnmcdonald78
    @johnmcdonald78 7 років тому

    Very good presentation.

  • @miguelquiroz1550
    @miguelquiroz1550 4 роки тому

    Thank you so much for this video. You helped me a lot with my builts !

  • @BrianPhillipsRC
    @BrianPhillipsRC 6 років тому +1

    Your CGI is amazing!!!! Loved it, as usual!
    P.S. I have to assume you've run into this, but lots of guys like to do this ( @ 6:35 ) to make a mechanically actuated differential on the ailerons. Do you still take issue with it? I personally just want to use the Differential on my DX18.

  • @StefanNaewe
    @StefanNaewe 6 років тому +2

    Thanks for that very informative video!

  • @MyBigThing2010
    @MyBigThing2010 7 років тому

    WOW I totally just friggin learned something! Good thing I didn't install any servo horns on my brand new scratch build foamies yet! Thank god for the slow boat from China on my parts in this case! THANK YOU

  • @SeraphimGray
    @SeraphimGray 3 роки тому

    Great advice, awesome CGI graphics! 😁

  • @andrewziegler2608
    @andrewziegler2608 4 роки тому

    Good to know. I never thought of horn placement

  • @rusack7174
    @rusack7174 7 років тому +1

    I was hoping you would have included results when connecting the push rod along various points of the servo and control horns also. There seems to be confusion there also.

  • @johnkarl1181
    @johnkarl1181 7 років тому +1

    Love all your videos. This newbie is learning a lot. What about servos on flaps? They move in only one direction, of course, and they spend most of their time at one end of the motion. I assume it's OK to set up the servo so that the horn is at one extreme, then it moves toward straight up in the middle position, then then other extreme in the full flaps down position. Is that right?

    • @senseisecurityschool9337
      @senseisecurityschool9337 3 роки тому

      "Only move one direction" - Your flaps went down and never came back up? They're stuck? Flaps move two directions; up to be parallel to the wing for decreased camber, and down to increase camber.
      "set up the servo so that the horn is at one extreme, then it moves toward straight up in the middle position, then then other extreme in the full flaps down position. Is that right?"
      Yes, that's right. Servo in the middle when the control surface is in the middle.

  • @DrewMann
    @DrewMann 7 років тому +3

    This is a good control vid, cool stuff

  • @chrisriffkin2746
    @chrisriffkin2746 6 років тому +9

    I think to get equal throws do this:
    Draw a line from the hinge to the linkage on the control surface
    Now draw a line from the servo spindle to the servo linkage
    These lines need to be parallel
    You say vertical but relative to what?

  • @leifchurchill
    @leifchurchill 7 років тому +2

    remember the old threaded rod and dowell pushrods? I have a model from the early 70s that still has that style, and let me tell you, there is a great amount of flex in those pushrods... better to just mount the servos right near the tailplane. amirite?

  • @Rognivald
    @Rognivald Рік тому

    2023r and still useful. Thanks :)

  • @mattstockton2433
    @mattstockton2433 7 років тому

    Awesome Bruce, one for the impact of the different holes next time?

  • @daftnord4957
    @daftnord4957 7 років тому +1

    was this linkage geometry a way to install "expo" back before the computer radio days?

  • @dummbephotos
    @dummbephotos 7 років тому +1

    How about a video on moving the linkage closer to the hinge point. Or just one side on how that effects the movement.

  • @MatthewAustengopro
    @MatthewAustengopro 7 років тому +2

    hinge point direct above the wing point...... this is what I have been looking for thankyou Bruce :-) I have the s800 and the instruction are....... well poop...
    Thanks Bruce

  • @StrangerInAStrange
    @StrangerInAStrange 3 роки тому

    Please discuss 'The Uncanny Valley' with your CGI Guys. It's disturbingly real!
    Thanks for that linkage geometry.

  • @johnflux1
    @johnflux1 3 роки тому

    What if you purposefully want a large servo change to become a small angle change, but with higher torque?

  • @YT-qp3xw
    @YT-qp3xw 6 місяців тому

    And again...i keep on coming to this class

  • @robsycko
    @robsycko 7 років тому +5

    You do know some of us use this to our advantage

  • @kokoslegend4850
    @kokoslegend4850 2 роки тому

    Can i compensate the throw of a pivot point being left of the hinge with trimming the servo horn's center position to the right?

  • @mabbs2757
    @mabbs2757 7 років тому

    good vid Bruce just thought you could of covered the different ratios using the holes on the horns ! .

  • @pixelpusher3589
    @pixelpusher3589 7 років тому +1

    Bruce...........Brilliant
    More on this kind of stuff please.
    Does this also apply to steering links in an rc car or boat?.......I know they do but it'd be great to see it in this easy to understand form.
    Thanks mate 👍😜

  • @mckinleywilson6184
    @mckinleywilson6184 5 років тому

    What about when the horn is lined up with the hinge line, the servo arm is straight, but the linkage isn't flat (say the linkage is in the furthest hole from the servo pivot, while the control surface side of the linkage is in the hole closest to the pivot) would that just change the throws evenly?

  • @tinkeringlabplus2516
    @tinkeringlabplus2516 2 місяці тому

    Excellent tutorial!

  • @patterdalebt
    @patterdalebt 2 роки тому

    I have a single servo operating both ailerons is it posible to manually install offset into the ailerons. A diagrame would be much appreciated. Thanks

  • @Journeyman1642
    @Journeyman1642 3 роки тому

    What were the workshops you were naming at 1:10? What’s the names again, I couldn’t understand what you said..... damper workshops? And whitter workshops?

  • @tbremard
    @tbremard 3 роки тому

    thank you , I have an obstacle between my servo and my rudder , so the servo must be moved at another place, and i am stucked at finding the right place ! is it possible ?

  • @WinstonSmith1984
    @WinstonSmith1984 7 років тому +2

    This video just touches the surface as people screw up so much with linkages.
    Other common errors are:
    • Not mounting the pushrods at right angles to the deflected surface, (hey Chinese designers of Tek Sumo, Mini Talon, etc), effectively wasting useable torque of the servo and adding wear to wire+horn joints.
    • Limiting servo throw to achieve aileron differential instead of aligning the servo horns to achieve it mechanically, and in by doing so waste available servo resolution and torque.
    • Using the innermost holes on both the servo and control surface horns, effectively amplifying the effects of play and slop in the linkage.
    • Poor alignment of servo horns with flaps causing the servo to be loaded in both the up and down positions.

  • @pacpaul1235
    @pacpaul1235 7 років тому +1

    Great explanation, Thank you!