We are talking about Thomas and if he called Jesus God. In greek if you talk to someone directly you DON'T put an "S" at the end of the word. if I say to you "ΘΕΕ" that means I call YOU God. If I say to you " O ΘΕΟΣ" That means I talk about someone not present. If your name is "ΤΙΜΟΘΕΟΣ" (Timothy=honor God) and I will meet you on the street I will not call you " O ΤΙΜΟΘΕΟΣ" but I will call you "ΤΙΜΟΘΕE without an article". In Greek Grammar, we call this declension. Ονομαστική Nominative: ΘΕΟΣ , ΤΙΜΟΘΕΟΣ, ΑΝΘΡΩΠΟΣ. Κλητική Vocative: ΘΕΕ ΤΟΜΟΘΕΕ, ΑΝΘΡΩΠΕ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Greek_grammar#Masculine_nouns el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%9A%CE%BB%CE%AF%CF%83%CE%B7_%CF%84%CF%89%CE%BD_%CE%BF%CF%85%CF%83%CE%B9%CE%B1%CF%83%CF%84%CE%B9%CE%BA%CF%8E%CE%BD But even if you are so naive as to not understand nothing from grammar read all chapter of John 20. The chapter is about Thomas not believing in Resurrection. When Jesus put Thomas's hands on the holes then Thomas surprised and said: "OH MY GOD" "o theos" with an "S" and an article referring to YHWH. And Jesus replied and he didn't call himself GOD ... the miracle is "to believe that Jesus is the Mashiach the Son of God"- John 20:31 Also, Thomas did not use a verb here. In Greek every sentence MUST have a verb otherwise is incorrect except if we have an epiphonema(exclamation). So Thomas used an exclamation... a loud calling or crying out, for example as in surprise, pain, grief, joy, anger, etc. en.wiktionary.org/wiki/exclamation Thomas did not say "you are my God" Thomas probably saw in the sky and said: "O my Lord, O my God" (Greeks prefer using the word "and" instead of a comma), talking not to Jesus but to YHWH.
@@GREEKTEDDYYou make a good argument. You could argue that the vocative, ΘΕΕ, says he is calling him God, but you could also argue that in similar line with the presented arguement, that when you speak to the Messiah, you are speaking to Yahshua, he is acting as the appointed Dabar, spokesman or word, your message conveyed through the intermediator directly to Yahweh, the Father, his God and our God. Furthermore, as we are told the Messiah's body was the temple that would be cast down for three days and three nights, it could be argued that God inhabits the Messiah, you could address Yahweh through the Messiah. That doesn't make the temple God. But alas, As you said, the Greek is in the Nominative, O ΘΕΟΣ , thus directed not at the Messiah. (Compare various manuscripts or compilative works such as RP Bayzantine Majority Text, the Textus Receptus, and Wescott-&-Hort.) Further, it is articulated. These Jews are habituated to reserve the articulated theos for the Almighty and only true God. An antharous theos, i.e., unarticulated, can nonblasphemously refer to a mighty one among men, angels, or false deities, as elohim can in Hebrew (note Moses [Exodus 4:1; 7:1], Aaron, judges, angels, unitary dieties such a Dagon, or composite dieties. The bible has many examples. So here we have a case where, by your argument, Mr T, Thomas is expressing out to the Father or in awe as to the Father, apart from the son, when he speaks to the son. Kind of like when someone greets a friend, "God bless you, Jerideth"; "God is Great, Ahmed"; "My God, I missed you Amelia." Is Amelia God? Never may that be the understanding. The context reveals it must be an expression of awe or amazement, just as you said.
The apostle John was in the same room with Thomas and the rest of the disciples when Jesus appeared before them. Many years later, John made the following statement: 1John 4:12 "No one has seen God at any time...." No one would have also included Thomas.
Butasfor Me True, and no one in that room saw The Almighty God unless there are two Gods. As followers of Christ we must believe Christ, and believe His teachings. (John 17:8 ESV) "For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me." It would be intolerable if we would have Jesus say " I am God and I am here because someone sent me". Also it would be intolerable if we would have Jesus say " I am God, and the words that I say are not mine, but someone else's.
True, still, no one has 'seen God at any time...' The seeing God in the Messiahs actions and hearing God in his words are figurative, as the Messiah clearly says that he says nothing except what the Father tells him to say, he obeys his Father's commandments, and does what he sees the Father doing. He is the image of God in the sense how Adam and Eve were before they were corrupted. In know way are any of God's children equal to the Messiah. Indeed, the Messiah repeatedly said he was a sent-servant of God, and said the Father was his God. He admitted twice to not knowing the time of the end (nor will until the angel coming out from God's sanctuary gives him a commandment to start the harvest Rev14), and mistakenly culled a fig tree for not bearing fruit out of season, and didn't know who touched his garment, &c. All those who truly believe he is God, when showing reverence before an image of him, are committing both blasphemy and idolatry.
True, still, no one has 'seen God at any time...' The seeing God in the Messiahs actions and hearing God in his words are figurative, as the Messiah clearly says that he says nothing except what the Father tells him to say, he obeys his Father's commandments, and does what he sees the Father doing. He is the image of God in the sense how Adam and Eve were before they were corrupted. In know way are any of God's children equal to the Messiah. Indeed, the Messiah repeatedly said he was a sent-servant of God, and said the Father was his God. He admitted twice to not knowing the time of the end (nor will until the angel coming out from God's sanctuary gives him a commandment to start the harvest Rev14), and mistakenly culled a fig tree for not bearing fruit out of season, and didn't know who touched his garment, &c. All those who truly believe he is God, when showing reverence before an image of him, are committing both blasphemy and idolatry.
I was closer to my dad than anybody and he passed away in 2008. A year later I met my wife. She's heard stories about my dad and people tell her what he was like. She once told a relative of mine... "I just wish so badly that I would have been able to met him and get to know him." Then my aunt said... "if you know Sir, you know his dad because they are just alike." Brother Kel thanks for giving that passage it's proper perspective using the ENTIRE gospel of John rather than extracting one verse and using it out of context like others. If someone sees this video and still denies it then then so be it. This is the most complete and exhaustive explanation of that passage I've seen. Truly great work and I for one appreciate it. God bless. Shalom.
Sir Williams are the Father and the Son two different people? How many do U expect to see if U get there? I am pretty sure that God is a spirit and can’t be seen so do U think U will be able to see a spirit?
@@tedcarter5564 We are of two natures -- Spirit and Flesh. Genesis 1.26 and Genesis 2.7; the *_Image_* of God, and the *_Dust_* of the ground. And even you should understand that "image of God" and "dust of the ground" are two separate things. When we give up the flesh (including ego), we awaken spirit, and *_as spirit_* we can see spirit. 😎♥✝🇺🇸💯
the best explanantion could also be that is is a lie. Luke 24, thomas was there when Jesus appears. Luke's intention was to be as precise and accurate so theo would know with absolute certainty. He didn't say my gospel needs to be crossreferenced with john and mark's. he says all eleven were there. if we read we can see this story contradicts John 20's thomas story. the other more silly notion with john 20s thomas story is that they already saw someone come back from teh dead. yet for some strange reason, they did not believe it when it happened again? the stories and actions of the apostles don't fit once you start to think about it. for some strange reason, luke says he will werite so we know what happened and decides none of the major divine statements that we find in john were worth writing about? he dind't say im telling you this from one point of view and in order to get the full view, there are these other guys mark , matt and john...you also need to read their stuff. his intentionwas clear. he wantred theo to know what happened and not beleive stuff being said ..... suff others were writing about. so even in the beginning, people were lying about what happened
*_Thank you for your patience and persistence._* Like a simple joke with a powerful punchline, I finally get it. Thomas, in John 20.28, is finally getting the punchline, as am I. Thomas finally sees Jesus abiding in God and God abiding in Jesus -- *_harmony instead of identity._* 😎♥✝🇺🇸💯
Well said,only a few will ever grasp this Truth! Seems that Thomas had a problem understanding this until he received the Holy Ghost and was enlightened. The book of Revelation is the revelation of Jesus.
Oneness actually makes sense at times. But arianism????? No its clear Jesus is God and Oneness get this right. The way u guys say it is a massive stretch to make it work and it gets debunked easily. Jesus is before all things . And created all things. Multiple times in revelation He is Almighty God and Almighty One.
@@Alexsid-lf8ovJesus did not create, everything was created through him, not by him, for example... A carpenter was told to build a house by the owner of the company, so to be able to do that, the owner have to give the materials, the plan and the idea. That is also how Jehovah God did. He gave Jesus the ingredients and the idea, and Jesus did what Jehovah told him to do. Just as what Jehovah told Moses to do, to write his words, now... Is Moses the author of the scriptures? Isn't it God?
2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that GOD WAS IN CHRIST, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
What if Thomas in fact was expressing praise and aknowledgement to God for now seeing for himself that Jesus infact was alive. I believe he was speaking to God at that moment . My Lord and my God...... Jesus you are alive.
Genaro Sanchez An exclamation just like when we see something awesome or extraordinary in the sky or an accident. Funny how this is being eisegesis by xtians into something describing or see GOD in that instant a man-god. If jesus’ disciples were jews would they not understand better the attributes of GOD ?
I understand this more true than when i endorsed the trinity. One God, our Father Yahweh, and one Son, Jesus, is more easier to understand once this is realized. Thank you brother for your diligence, may your actions be pleasing to our Lord and our God.
congratulations for your discovery of truth. Overturning cherished popular-beliefs without use of force, in those with integrity, comes as a result of a love & dedication for truth. |We must apply this love of truth to all things. Thanks for sharing
An excellent explanation of these verses & context. The GK term of ""...My Lord "" (of me) & God (of me) seems to be an echo of 1Cor 8:6. Well done. Regards, Phil....... A Christadelphian.
Acts 7:55,56 - But he (Stephen), being full of holy spirit gazed into heaven caught sight of God's glory ''AND'' of Jesus, standing at God's ''RIGHT HAND'', and he said: I behold the heavens open up and the son of man ''STANDING'' at God's ''RIGHT HAND''. Psalms 110:1 - The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord is: '' 'SIT' at my '' RIGHT'' 'HAND''until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.'' - Amen
Yes I understand now! so when Thomas answered he was saying Jesus was Lord and Father was God because to see Jesus is also to see the Father. Thus. " my Lord ( Jesus) and my God (Father) because the two are one.
Dawn Van Naam i will recommend also you watch THEWORDPROPHET channel as well. he is a brilliant man. holy man . Humble man of God who will teach you the same. but with clarity as well.
This would be an appropriate explanation if the vocative were used in the expression, as it would direct speach to the Messiah. Nominatives were used instead. In ordinary sentence construction, they simply are the subject of the sentence. Within a quote and without a verb, they are exclaimations directed at someone else not seen to be there. MrT notes it well early in the commentary. In short, Thomas is amazed, thus in awe he shouts the exclamation directed to the Father first. The definite article before theos is reserved for Yahweh God, and it is used here. It an Oh were to be used here, it would be dropped in deference to article. In most of the new testament writings, the Nominatives used do refer to Lord and God grouped together , do indeed refer to Lord (Yahushua) and God (Yahweh), just not in this case. The result is still, that the Messiah isn't God.
No lol yehovah is the father and his son is the son of God Jesus is also mighty God notice that Jehovah is almighty God there’s 2 different titles plus yehovah is the GOD of gods and lord of lords yes Jesus is a god because yehovah created Jesus billions of years ago before the universe that’s why he’s the first born of all creation
John says that Thomas' statement was addressed to Jesus ("Thomas answered and said to him"). So, no matter how hard you try to interpret it as addressed to Jesus _and_ the Father, it won't be consistent with John's preface.
@@TheTrinityDelusion So, you agree that Thomas is addressing *one person* with the words, "my Lord and my God"? In other words, he isn't addressing Jesus as "my Lord" and the Father as "my God"? I agree that seeing Jesus would be tantamount to seeing the Father at work (since Jesus only did the Father's works and spoke the Father's words; John 14:10, 24; 5:19, 30). But that isn't the kind of "seeing" that is going on at John 20:28, which in context is simply "seeing that Jesus is really there"... nothing more.
@@Bowen12676 Thomas is confessing that he really believes Jesus rose from the dead by confessing what you could only confess of Jesus, to see Jesus is to see the Father. "How can you say "Show us the Father?" Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me?" Where is the Father?
(Acts 20:28“Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.”)
Isaiah 25:9 It will be said on that day, “Behold, this is our God; we have waited for him, that he might save us. This is the Lord; we have waited for him; let us be glad and rejoice in his salvation.”
In John 20:28 remember this that Thomas had a pre condition given to his fellow disciples that he will never believe and have faith to Jesus unless he saw his wounds in his hands and in his body and he could touches it and enter his finger unto the wound that is his pre condition before he believes. And after a few days which had been passed Jesus reappear again but this time he called Thomas to come nearer and asked Thomas to touches his wound in his hands and enter his fingers on the hole on his body and after he did it Thomas exclaimed "MY LORD AND MY GOD," and Jesus Christ did not rebuke Thomas which simply means Thomas faith is true and correct that he is LORD AND GOD logically speaking there is no contentious regarding the belief of Thomas which is base on his pre condition which ultimately materialized. '
what a wonderful message .He who has seen Jesus has seen the Father.Jesus is the only way to the father.Those who cannot abide in Jesus do so because they are not of God! it is that simple!
Beautiful explanation! I hope James White watches this video and stops confusing more people, there will be people still wondering around about this and that, adding to the text and coming up with various ideas, because triniarians won't ever have enough about wondering about God and Jesus, therefore they will continue to make more stuff up, James White himself is good at doing that.
The problem is, that Trinitarians share much in stated belief to a non-sensicle belief as do those upholding the Flat Earth Society. The difference is, that most Flat Earthers realize it's a farce, but Trinitarians actually fear for their mortal well being if they challenge the belief, plus they have a romantic attachment to the notion that God actually died on our behalf. I have heard some go so far as to say that if they were to accept that the Messiah wasn't God, and therefore God himself die for us, that the beauty of the faith would disappear for them!!! They can't accept that someone actually achieved the impossible, and lived a sinless adult life. We are called to imitate him on our journey to perfection. Besides, if God was to die, it couldn't just be an appendage. And let's face it, Simeese twins are two people conjoined, because while they share the same body, they are cognitively separate , and have separate wills, even if they walk lock-&-step together. The trinity is unavoidably tritheism , despite what adherents say.
It is strange how some let a veil of bias cloud there minds, and sometimes the littleless thing finally clicks. They can come to you and express things they never saw and heard, and you recall that others or yourself have mentioned these same things but it's like they never heard them before. They can become so enthusiastic as more and more opens up to them in a copious flow, and during this, sometimes they discover something you yourself never saw. Then there are others that go to their graves with functional eyes that don't see, working ears that don't hear, and minds wrapped up in confusion and mysteries that proved to be a maze they never escaped. God states he isn't an author of confusion, and scriptures reveals the great church to be Babylon, mother of harlots and mysteries. Her daughters are prophesized to return to her, but the world will be awestruck when she collapses. Her greatest mystery doctrine that she holds as her ultimate test of the true faith, is the Trinity, that she states is the greatest of mysteries. Those that reputiate it are called heresies or cults, but in fact, she is the greatest heresy and cult out there. I hope White oneday opens his eyes, and humble himself to allow scriptures to reveal themselves. Children are capable of seeing the truth it is said, and it is so. But the sad fact is, to accept the Trinity, you have to forgo logic. When you forgo logic, it's hard to accept any evidence to the contrary of the belief you hold. That's why Satan, who is the master and Father of Lies, crafted it as such. It's victims will only see the truth, if they pray to God for guidance and allow the spirit work. But the Church uses fear of eternal torturous damnation to lock the doors to the mind, and shut out light. But the church can nowhere point to damnation for questioning, or even rejecting the Trinity. And then they make the argument that God's love is so great, he died for us, when all scripture says it is impossible for him to die. Yet they deminish the amazing and inspiring accomplishment of the Messiah in conquering sin, and that a mortal man that longed to escape death, let his death serve for humanities good. Trinity makes God's laws an impossible burden, and takes away God's uncorruptable nature to sin and to death. To say God can die lessons God, and contradicts scriptures. It also lessons the pain of the Father permitting the Messiah, or any of the martyrs, for dieing for the truth, for us. The Trinity accomplishes the desires of Satan. It elevates his 1/2 truth to Adam and Eve to an outright lie in the deification of the Messiah. It is no different than most of paganism, that elevates champions to godship. And it fulfills the perverse desire for Satan to have God die or be deminished. It promotes the distortion of scriptures so all manner of false doctrines can prevail. That it was never "revealed" to Church Fathers until the 4th century, but appeared in the oldest major civilizations early in history and became commonplace is revealing. It obstructs Jews and other monotheists from seeing the Messiah for who he is. And Babylon the Great takes pleasure in boasting that it was revealed to it's NeoPlatonist fathers. It is a mental trap, a prison, for which we must pick at the locks to free our loved ones, to fulfill God's invitation and command, to 'Come out of her, my children.' to join the remnant that keep the commandments.
I think John 11 can be applied here as well concerning the seeing and believing. For Thomas witnessed the raising of lazarus. Obviously a shadow of what was going to happen with Jesus. Jesus saying that he was glad for their sakes, that he was not there earlier to keep Lazarus from dying, but that they may see the Glory of God and believe that it was he who sent him. I find it interesting that Thomas was pointed out as not understanding what was to happen. I think Thomas when proclaiming my lord, my God finally understood what he witnessed with the raising of Lazarus. He understood that it was God who sent Jesus and the God raised Jesus.
Good explanation!!!! It is simply that Thomas did not believe that Jesus (Peace be upon him) was still alive, so he was shocked to see him alive. So the utterance "My Lord and My God" is an exclamation not that he was calling Jesus "My lord and my God." It is very easy to understand.
No no thats your Theory, Thomas said, . My lord and my God to jesus . because jesu is God youe interpreting thouegh your own thinking . this explanation doesn't even make sense.
Did God Make things Complicated fOR us to Read and Understand thE verses provided.. My lord and My God thats what he says he iS seeing and believing .. Blessed are those who has not seen but believe.. Its easy for us to believe especially those who have love fOR one another, for Our God is Love and he will lead us to understanding.
This is amazing 🤩 i always had a feeling thomas wasn't calling Jesus God in that verse. But rather speaking of 2. I just never took the time to look into it. At the beginning of that same chapter, it says " the LORD! has risen" why would Thomas change to calling him God? 🎉🎉
And not being weak in faith, he did not consider his own body, already dead (since he was about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb. He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, (Romans 4:19-24 NKJV) Been thinking a bit lately about how in Romans Paul makes quite an important link between Abrahams faith in a son that had yet to be brought to life , and our faith in God son who was testified to be brought to life.... Our faith in God seems to be not a "general thing " but quite specific .. So our faith in Jesus is related to our understanding of Gods faithfulness so to speak
The actual wording is; "the Lord of me and the God of me" Some Bibles translators like twisting scripture to say something other than the original text
The following verses also hint at the idea that our faith in Jesus is linked to our understanding of Gods faithfulness He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God. (I Peter 1:20, 21 NKJV) 1 Corinthians 15 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.
God did raise him up from the dead. But in this verse Jesus said he will raise the temple which is his own body Jesus is God and man divity and humanity infused togheter 19Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21But he spake of the temple of his body.
@TheTrinityDelusion So when jesus prays to the father are they the fathers words? Jesus says he has been given power from his father to lay down his life and take it up again.
A sentence or two later John tells us “These things are written so that you may believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” !!!! There is the reason John wrote his book straight from the horses mouth. If he had wanted us to garner any different conclusion he would have said so! But lo the blind lead the blind and the false teaches will be shattered on the great day.
Seeing all these misleaded/wrong comments, I want to say something about. The word of God must in the same time be revealed and hidden. Revealed to humble hearts and hidden (for their own benefit) from pride hearts. So never make conclusions your self. We only must trust, the church that the apostoles founded, the tradition and the wholy fathers. We as Christians followed Christ based on the apostles, the church (the body of Christ) and the tradition since we had no gospel in the beginning. So let's be humble and wise and not doing our own interpretation. What do you think, that (true-orthodox) Christians were in darkness and suddenly after 2000 years we were born to bring light with our youtube comments?!
There's logically a lot of truth to what you said. However, Christ's church has always seemingly been underground and marginalized. It's not that suddenly we have UA-cam and are enlightened after 2000 years, it's that we've always known and now have UA-cam to voice it. Christ's church has never been a political machine, caught up in world domination and politics. That was Roman catholicism and its offshoots. Christ's church has no interest in war or domination. That's religion, not Christianity.
1. The Claim: John 20:28 Refers to Two Persons The Greek text reads: ὁ κύριός μου καὶ ὁ θεός μου ("the Lord of me and the God of me"). Both titles are governed by the singular verbs "answered" (ἀπεκρίθη) and "said to Him" (εἶπεν αὐτῷ). The direct address is singular and directed solely to Jesus, as the pronoun αὐτῷ ("to Him") refers explicitly to Jesus. The use of ὁ ("the") before both κύριός ("Lord") and θεός ("God") does not imply two separate persons. In Greek grammar, this construction often serves to reinforce the singularity of the subject. A similar construction is found in passages like Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1, where Jesus is described as both "God" and "Savior." The narrative explicitly states that Thomas "answered Him" (i.e., Jesus) and not the Father. The context revolves around Thomas's recognition of the resurrected Christ and his confession of Jesus’s identity, not a theological statement about the Father. 2. The Claim: Thomas Was Acknowledging the Father Abiding in Jesus Thomas’s words are a personal response to Jesus’s invitation to touch His wounds and believe (John 20:27). There is no textual indication that Thomas was addressing the Father indirectly through Jesus. Jesus does not redirect Thomas’s declaration to the Father but accepts it, affirming Thomas’s belief (John 20:29). Jesus’s statements in John 14:9-11 emphasize His unique relationship with the Father: "I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me." This underscores His deity, as only someone sharing the divine essence can perfectly reveal the Father (Hebrews 1:3). While Jesus acted in obedience to the Father (John 5:19), this does not negate His deity. Instead, it demonstrates the harmonious operation of the Trinity, where the Son reveals the Father and carries out His will. 3. The Claim: The Context Is About Seeing and Believing, Not About Jesus’s Deity The resurrection is central to Jesus’s identity as the Son of God and Lord. Paul explicitly ties Jesus’s resurrection to His divine status: "Declared to be the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead" (Romans 1:4). Thomas’s declaration goes beyond mere belief in the resurrection; it acknowledges the resurrected Jesus as "God." John’s Gospel begins by declaring Jesus as God (John 1:1) and concludes with Thomas’s confession. This narrative arc emphasizes Jesus’s deity as a core theme of the Gospel. John 20:31 reaffirms this: the purpose of the Gospel is that readers may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and through Him have eternal life. Jesus blesses those who believe without seeing, affirming Thomas’s declaration as a model of faith (John 20:29). He does not correct Thomas for misunderstanding or misapplying divine titles. 4. The Claim: The Greek Construction Implies Two Persons Repetition of the definite article and possessive pronoun is a normal Greek construction to emphasize both terms equally, not to separate them. For example, similar constructions in Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1 clearly refer to a single subject. The combination of "Lord" and "God" is used elsewhere in Scripture to describe a single person. For example, Psalm 35:23 (LXX) uses similar language, and in the New Testament, the combination often refers to Jesus (e.g., Romans 10:9-13). The narrative and grammar focus exclusively on Jesus as the recipient of Thomas’s words. The attempt to split the phrase into two separate addresses (one to Jesus, one to the Father) is speculative and unsupported by the text. 5. The Claim: Trinitarian Interpretation Is Blind Tradition The deity of Christ is not a later imposition but a consistent theme throughout the New Testament, affirmed by passages like John 1:1, Colossians 1:15-20, and Hebrews 1:3-12. The confession of Jesus as "Lord" and "God" aligns with Old Testament descriptions of Yahweh, applied to Jesus in the New Testament (e.g., Philippians 2:9-11). Far from contradicting John’s Gospel, the interpretation of John 20:28 as affirming Jesus’s deity is consistent with John’s emphasis on Jesus’s unique relationship with the Father and His divine nature (John 1:1, 10:30, 17:5). Trinitarian theology is derived from the biblical text and has been affirmed by centuries of careful exegesis. The claim that it blinds interpreters is ironic, given the speculative and unsubstantiated arguments presented in the video. Conclusion The objections raised in the video fail to provide a convincing alternative interpretation of John 20:28. Thomas’s declaration, "My Lord and my God," is a clear and unambiguous affirmation of Jesus’s deity. The grammatical, contextual, and theological evidence overwhelmingly supports the Trinitarian understanding of this passage. Attempts to reinterpret the text to diminish Jesus’s divine status are not only speculative but also inconsistent with the overall message of John’s Gospel and the New Testament.
Thomas said literally "the Lord of me and the God of me" . it is an incomplete sentence. which is why the new advent bible adds 'thou art" to Thomas statement because they assume that is the unstated subject and verb. but they are wrong, because they are reading their doctrine and not the context of JOhn 20 into the verse. whatever Thomas unstated portion was is not clear. it's ambiguous, but it has to be something like 'I believe the lord of me and the God of me." john 2028 Thomas answered, Thou art my Lord and my God but their are other possibilities, the verse is too ambiguous for anyone to say for certain 100 percent that they know what Thomas meant when he said "the lord of me and the god of me."
Thomas sees Jesus and the power of God, God is still one God. One must ask who did Jesus serve? How did Jesus conquer his death? who did he conquer in Heaven? God did it in a Son, not a god man or any other idolatry of man.
25:00 he can say that. Because he is talking to Jesus. He is telling Jesus he is The Lord of Me and The God of Me. Because this statement is directed at Jesus. There is no problem clarifying every word by saying “of me”. He is just making it clear he is both of him because he is talking to Jesus. Also, how could he be the first and last? Revelation “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.” Revelation 22:13 NIV And how could he own angles if he’s not God? ““I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”” Revelation 22:16 NIV
"he can say that. Because he is talking to Jesus. He is telling Jesus he is The Lord of Me and The God of Me. Because this statement is directed at Jesus. There is no problem clarifying every word by saying “of me”. He is just making it clear he is both of him because he is talking to Jesus. " Thomas directed his words to JESUS because to see Jesus is to see the Father.
@@TheTrinityDelusion So if anyone called Jesus God would you just use the excuse seeing Jesus is seeing the father? Verse 10 of chapter 14 claims he is in the father. Because he is 1 in divine being with the father, so it makes sense seeing Jesus is seeing the father because seeing the person Jesus is seeing the one who is the same divine being with the father. “But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”” John 10:38 So believe the works. So it may make you understand the father is in Jesus. And Jesus is in the father. As a result of the works you have to understand and know Jesus and the father are one. If they are one that means seeing Jesus is seeing the father. That’s why Jesus responds to asking how do we see the father with you see me. Seeing Jesus is seeing God. However back to what you originally responded with. Thomas directed his words to Jesus. But Jesus isn’t the Father. Seeing Jesus is seeing God (the Father) but that doesn’t make Jesus the Father. So if you say Jesus is Lord and God you aren’t saying The Father is Lord and God. Because although seeing Jesus is seeing the Father he isn’t the father. So saying Jesus is my God is saying Jesus is literally my God. The statements were directed at Jesus not the Father. Along with all of this, why didn’t Thomas just say My Lord Jesus and My God the Father? Why didn’t he separate his wording? Because if he were referring to Jesus as God he could do it in the exact same way to mean he is God. So he should have been more clear in his wording that Jesus isn’t his God.
"Verse 10 of chapter 14 claims he is in the father. Because he is 1 in divine being with the father" He said no such thing. You telling lies about Jesus. Jesus explained how they had seen the Father in the very next breath. So why are you telling lies about what he said?
@@TheTrinityDelusion “Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.” John 14:10-11 NIV I’m confused. Jesus says believe him when he tells you that he is in the father and the father is in him based on the evidence how does that not mean what it says? They are one in being. This is the next few verses after 14:9 where he says anyone who has seen the father has seen him so he is explaining how seeing the father is seeing Jesus. 10 and 11 is the explanation and apart of his speech there to answer Philip’s question on how can we see the father.
@@zraapx9425 "I’m confused. Jesus says believe him when he tells you that he is in the father and the father is in him based on the evidence how does that not mean what it says? They are one in being. The Father is in believers and believers are in the Father. They aren't "God" are they? And Jesus never said anything about being "one being." The disciples saw the Father at work in the man Jesus. That is what he is explaining. The Father spoke through the man Jesus and the Father did his works through the man Jesus. The Gospel of John explains this all. "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word that they may all be one JUST AS You, Father, in me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent me. The glory which You have given me I have given to them, that they may be one, JUST AS WE ARE ON, I in them and You in me, that they may be perfected into one." John 17
Yes, John 14:26 says it all....but many come in His name...and they lord [ their ] understanding of Scripture over everyone that they meet.....We must all heed the warnings in 2 JOHN....and shun those who preach the False Gospel...that Jesus must literally BE God ...for us to be saved. The only people that will really see this deception are those who have eyes to see and ears to hear....either close to entering the kingdom...or already born again.
Anyone know of some resource that has all of the official beliefs of the Trinitarians. It is very hard to combat the idea if it is always changing.....
Randall Bernard If you want to understand the "orthodox" version of the Trinity, start with the Athanasian Creed. But Trinitarians depart from their "orthodoxy" when in a corner, of course.
God is YWHW Jesus is YWHW Holy Spirit is YWHW The Father is not the Son and not the Holy Spirit That is what we beleive. They share the divine nature but have their own will, desire, voice, and roles
Love your videos. Another thing people need to understand, is that it's fine to pick up an English Bible and just start reading. That's how Jesus saved me. BUT if people are ever going to grow and actually get to know God better, they must get into the original languages and context and history behind the Bible. Elohym is a deep word. Father Yehvah's name isn't just Elohym. Yes, Yeshua is Elohym as well because he was begotten by Yehvah as a man, and was always his word. That is how his coming forth is from everlasting. We must realize that Yeshua was a Jew and read the Bible with a Hebrew mindset.
It is very simple to understand what Thomas suddenly has realized (2 Things) in that Second he spoke these Words in Verse 28. 1. Jesus was alive and not dead : to this refers the first Half of his Saying "my Lord" ("seeing" his Lord was alive with Marks) 2. Thomas had to acknowledge now that God the Father has raised Jesus from the Dead : to this refers the Second Half "my God" (now believing in his Resurrection which was done by the Most High himself). Finally both Statements are separated by an "and" which refers to 2 Beings (The Resurrected One and the all powerful Resurrector) There is nothing complicated about this Verse. This Verse is crucial for our Understanding what Christ was telling about true Believers. Only if we first believe that God raised his Son from the dead we may be saved by his Grace. --- > Romans 10:9-10 is the Deal In Case of Thomas first came his "seeing" and then after that his "believing" in Resurrection. That was the Attitude of most People at that Time. They wanted to see Signs and Wanders in order to believe. Their Faith was build on Seeing. Not so with us. In our Case in this Century we must first believe in what Jesus tought in order to be rewarded with seeing (by our own Resurrection). This is the very Meaning of the following Verse 29. Thomas was able to correct his View, we cannot because without Faith (Obedience) we will only face our own Destruction.
Trinitarians believe and worship 'God Jesus'. For them Jn 1:1 the Word is not 'the Word of God' but God the Son (i.e. Jesus). They read Jn 20:28 as 'the Lord and God of me' (my Lord and God), not 'my Master! - and my Elohim, your Father'. They don't want read any other way.
Again is there any Man that existed an said -i have come in the flesh. if any man said that he would be certified as a nut or crazy. Yet scripture by none other than the Apostle JOHN .states that Jesus has come in the FLESH. became a Man. so what or who was JESUS before he came? of course he was GOD which makes all the sense to any sensible person!!
False. He denied being God, saying the Father was the only true God John 17:3. He repeatedly called the Father his God. He said the Father was greater than he was, and said the one sent is not greater than the sender. He doen't know the end of by his own words in the Gospels, and then again in Rev 14 an angel comes out from God & the heavenly sanctuary, and commands the Messiah to thrust in his scythe because the harvest has begon. He prayed to God that let God's will be done, not his own will. As a youth he continued to grow in wisdom and knowledge and in God's favour and men's favor; He doesn't know the time of the end in the Gospels, and doesn't find out until just before the harvest. He in fact receives a command from an angel, coming out from God in the heavenly sanctuary. An angel commands and informs him after he has risen into heaven. God is not a man or a son of man, Num 23:19, and therefore can't sin or lie. God is immortal. The Messiah died. In order for the Messiah to have been God, and mortal and capable of dieing, means he changed, yet Malachai assures us he cannot change. Besides, how does that answer Satan's challenge that God's laws are too hard for us. (We are told they aren't a burden.) yet Trinitarians have God go through the charade of being tempted when that isn't possible. Satan wouldn't be so foolish to offer earthly rulership to the creator of this universe, and perhaps an infinite number of other ones. Why does the messiah give up the millenial kingdom to God after the thousand years are ended.... &c &c &c. the list goes on and on. Mystery religion and mystery doctrines are the way of Babylon the Great. The mark of the beast is in the thoughts and actions of people, figuratively, IN their head and. "Come on out of her my children" God says. The Messiah told the Sammaritan woman that the Jews know who they worship, but the very similar Samaritans don't. For thousands of years they have worshipped God as revealed to them (& us) in the bible written in their own language, yet Trinitarians think they know better. Why does Jeremiah say when the time of the Gentiles is ended, that ten gentiles will grab a Jews garment, and plead he inform them of the truth. Why, because they inherited lies and myths. The list goes on & on. Why do trinitarians climg to an illogical mystery doctrine that contradicts scriptures. Is it because they are modern gnostics, who follow a 'revelation' at odds with scripture, because it tickles them to think God died for them. That's Satan's desire... for God to die.
Jesus, the man, is the temple of GOD where the spirit of GOD resides. Do we not recall the words of Apostle Paul ( who understood it fully ) when he said, "Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; ( 1 Cor 6:19 ) Many times God spoke through his angels so why couldn't he speak through a man? ......He did~ .. I enjoyed your video ~
in Titus 2:13 Jesus is the Savior, not God: "...and the savior Jesus Christ" since Greek koine of the new testament had no commas or points Titus 2:13 is not a proof of anything. In Romans 9:5 you must better ask how to punctuate (and interpret) this verse? hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/14262/does-romans-95-assert-the-deity-of-christ If Jesus is also God then you are a polytheist. Or Jesus is not God but the Mashiach of God. 1 Corinthians 15: 24 Then the end will come when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority, and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all. JESUS WILL BE SUBJECTED TO YHWH ! ! !
Problem with your explanation: It seems like you are so focused on trying to separate the very word of Thomas, so you can justify that Jesus was not being referred here as a God, and with that your own point of view will be given justification. On your John 14:20 - "After a little while the world will no longer see Me, but you will see Me; because I live, you will live also. "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. Here Jesus is explaining about the eternal life and not just the reincarnation which will be given to those who believed, As Jesus lived as a proof of the promised eternal life as his very body is the very first example of it, The reason why he said, because I lived, you will live also. Now Jesus says definitely the very time that this will occur. "In that day" This is the day when they the Apostles will received that eternal life and they too will live. The question is, did that day come already? To your explanation it seems like you are referring to Jesus reincarnation, and he showed up to his Apostles and also with Thomas and it seems like you are telling us that this is that day Jesus was referring to in the scripture of John's 14:20 but the problem here is the Apostles haven't received the eternal life yet, Jesus definitely said that they too will live which mean they will all die but will received the eternal life just as what Jesus have said, and when that happened is what Jesus is referring to as that very day, that they will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you. Which means your explanation does not make sense according to the context of the verse. So during Jesus reincarnation is not the day that they will know that he is with the Father, But will happened in a latter time when they all received they're eternal life. I agree with your explanation, that Jesus was the express image, I agree with you when you say that they are two different person in Jesus, and these are all been taught by Jesus to all the Apostles. There is no problem with the belief of the Apostles when comes with the Father But is Thomas was talking about his disbelief with the God the Father or with Jesus Christ being alive? seeing is believing, but who was the one Thomas wants to see, is it the Father or is it Jesus Christ body? Thomas already believed with God the Father, So if he had listen to Jesus and have that belief with God the Father, Why would Thomas give a doubting reaction? If Thomas is referring to Jesus Christ and his Father in him, Then there is no reason for Thomas to doubt Jesus Christ anymore, since he believe in the Power of God the Father, But why is he still in doubt? These only shows , that the disbelief of Thomas is not with God the Father but in Jesus Christ, Which means the very focused of Thomas doubt is only to Jesus Christ alone, the reason why he want to see his very body and would like to see and feel his very wound. This is not about God the Father, his very disbelief is with Jesus being alive. Seeing the very proof, Thomas would then made a declaration to the very person whom he doubted and not to God the Father which is not the source of his doubt. So he should say these to the very person whom he doubted: MY LORD AND MY GOD IT WAS JESUS WHOM THOMAS REFERRED TO AS HIS LORD AND HIS GOD, SORRY I KNOW YOU REALLY DO NOT WANT JESUS TO BE A GOD BUT NOT WITH THESE VERSE. YOU HAVE TO SHOW ME THOMAS DOUBTED GOD THE FATHER TOO, SO HE COULD REFER TO BOTH OF THEM JUST AS WHAT YOU WANT TO PRESENT HERE IN THESE VIDEO.
TheTrinityDelusion You just prove my point, Thomas is doubting Jesus being alive and has nothing to do with God the Father so why would you say that Thomas was saying my God as referring to the Father. It was Jesus he was doubting about, so it should be Jesus he should say sorry to and the best way to tell Jesus that he now believe in him of being alive is by saying to him : MY LORD AND MY GOD I REST MY CASE !
Wisdom Jesus had been teaching Thomas that the Father was in him and he was in the Father. In fact, he said that "in that day you will know I am in my Father." Thomas knew
Great shell game obfuscation! "It's about the context...the context is about 'seeing and believing'" Do you even understand what the word "context" means? In context, what is the listener/ reader supposed to be "seeing and believing"? To answer that question, let's dismantle another attempt at misdirection: "Trinitarian academia misses the point of John's Gospel" What was the point of John's gospel? Jesus Christ. John's perspective was theological and focused on Jesus' divine nature and his relationship with the Father. The context of John 20:28 is the entire Gospel of John, and most specifically chapter 20 itself. The object of Thomas' disbelief wasn't "seeing and belief", the object was Jesus himself, to whom Thomas declared "my Lord and my God", when his lack of disbelief was met by the very real glorified body of Jesus.
Divine nature does not mean he is God. God is not a divine substance, he is a singular entity. In fact, your claim disproves your own creed, if you want to base Jesus' deity solely based on his 'divine nature' then you are in fact going to attribute all of the risen chosen ones with the same title of God. Your comment has absolutely nothing to show.
mcsc177 That comment is incoherent nonsense. God is of a particular nature or substance= divine, and that does not conflict with being a "singular entity". The scriptures use "Godhead" (divinity) three times in the New Testament for God/ that which pertains to God. The bible even uses the concept to rule out that which is NOT God/ Divine- Gal 4:8 "...to beings that by nature are no gods." Therefore God is unique, unlike other spirits or humans. This can be proved in the fact that God alone is uncreated. Those who share in the divine resurrection are those who have received the gift of eternal life, and have responded by putting their old (sinful) natures to death and have lived for Christ; through whom we share in the divine nature and life. We have life, natural and eternal, because of the Creator. We do not have eternal life through our own doing.
***** The context is about Thomas seeing and believing. That should be obvious since that is what is being discussed immediately before John 20:28 and that is what is discussed immediately after.
TheTrinityDelusion What should be obvious is that the apostle Thomas looked at the glorified and resurrected Christ and called Him his "Lord" and his "God".
***** You know how people say "Oh my God!" or "Oh my Lord!" when they get excited? Well Thomas said both of them at once because he was really shocked. He isn't calling Jesus "God," and I know this because only what (3?) verses later John finished "These things are written that you might believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God..." That we may believe that Jesus is the Christ(?) the Son(?) of God(?) not that we may believe that Jesus IS CAPITAL IS GOD HIMSELF THE SECOND PERSON OF A TRINITY????? Well that's what John wrote. So obviously John didn't understand Thomas' excited ejaculation as definitive proof that Jesus is God, or else why is John writing "these things" only to help us believe that "Jesus is the Christ, the SON of God"???? This is also what is wrong with binding the Trinity as essential for salvation: the confession that Jesus made the rock on which he built the church was Peter's confession "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God," same as what John said there (right?) and the same as in Acts 8:37 "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." So Jesus himself, Peter, John, the evangelist Philip who was expressly sent by the Holy Spirit according to Acts 8...they all make a confession that Jesus "is the Christ, the Son of God," a confession that Trinitarians never miss a beat in telling us "is not good enough," a confession that quite frankly even a Socinian can make, a Socinian like myself even! How can that be, if the Trinity is true?
Thank you for the explanation to this verse, however I have another question for you in regards to our salvation.. I have several friends and family members who believe in the Trinity, do you think they have to come to a complete understanding of this doctrine in order for them to be saved? Thank you in advance
I agree that the trinity is false but my question is do you believe that Yahweh and his Messiah will judge us for not coming to the TRUTH of this doctrine?
So aren't trinitarians creating "another Jesus"? 2Cor.11:4 and aren't Trinitarians also breaking the first Commandment? If we break the Commandments will we lose our salvation?
I am a man,I am a father, I am a son, I am an electrician, does that make me two or three persons? I didn’t think so. Jesus is the Father and the Son, both spirit and flesh, not two, just One,One,One not two.
The *_Trinitarians_* and *_Pharisees_* are not "of God," because they are "of Ego." To be "of God," you need to be more like God: * *_Unconditionally Loving,_* * *_Perfectly Responsible,_* * *_Utterly Humble,_* and * *_Fearlessly Confidence._* But even here, the aim must be done with care. We should not be confident in our own knowledge and not humble to our own needs, but confident in God, humble to Him and to the needs of others. When you achieve Zero Ego on all vectors of intention, then you will be standing at the *_Narrow Gate_* which leads back Home. 😎♥✝🇺🇸💯
If no one has seen YHWH, then with whom did Abraham eat? Whom did Moses see face to face? Who revealed Himself on Mount Sinai when the covenant was made, with Moses, the seventy elders, and others? Exodus 24:10 states, 'And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.' When Samson's father feared he would die because, as he said, he had seen YHWH, did he see Him or not? With whom did Jacob wrestle? Did 'the Son' manifest Himself everywhere there, or that YHWH Himself did? Also, why did YHWH Himself appear but did not reveal His Glory and covered Moses' eyes when YHWH (His Glory) passed before Moses? Exodus 33:18-23 and 34:5-8. Were there two forms of YHWH there? Two manifestations? One shielding Moses, and the other declaring Glory? I am curious about your thoughts.
Scholars of academia state the phrase "My Lord and My God" was a common phrase that developed around 81 - 96 CE. The phrase "My Lord and My God" was initially used to address the Roman Emperor Domitian. Which is dominus et deus noster "our Lord and God" or an individual saying this to the emperor would say dominus meus et meus "My Lord and My God." Interesting fact the Book of John was written between 90 - 100 CE just around the time frame the phrase was being used. Basically the author of John is subverting respect from the Emperor to Jesus and portraying Jesus as more divine than the Emperor. Sadly Trinitarians misconstrude the passage and ignore John 20:17 when Jesus states he has a God Source Collin, A.Y. and Collins J.J. King and Messiah as Son of God: Divine, Human, and Angelic Messianic Figures in Biblical and Related Literature. William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company. 2008.
Thomas here is referring to Jesus whom he saw, and that Thomas has already seen the Father, not literally, because God is spirit. The presenter is right in his understanding of the context of epistle of John. The trinitarian thought they have solid understanding of this verse without understanding the context. The problem with Trinitarian, they just read one verse and start jumping with joy that they have a strong evidence of trinity. The wisdom of understanding is not for everybody, and it should have the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
My master recognized jesus as the messiah and my god which thomas recognized jesus father almighty God YHWH John 20: 31 But these have been written so that you believe that jesus is the messiah, the son of YHWH
@@TheTrinityDelusion God manifest himself in Jesus christ. He put his spirit in Christ. Jesus is God come down out of heaven while still being in heaven. God was in Jesus reconciling the world to himself. Literally. John 6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. 1 Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. They are one of the same person. They are won Lord. He manifests himself in his son christ Jesus just like he did with moses in the buring bush. Daniel 7:9-14 (Do you recognize the oneness?) 9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. 10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. 11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. 12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time. 13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
Brother kell, i think thats your name. Sorry if im incorrect. Great video and great information i agree with. My question is did Thomas doubt Jesus was the messiah or he did doubt he was resurrected? I think he kind of doubted he was the messiah because if he believed Jesus was the messiah then he would not have doubted his resurrection. What are your thoughts on this?
JC Lopez It specifically says Thomas doubted he was resurrected. John 20:28 is not about Thomas doubting who he was, but that he doubted Jesus rose again. You might want to say that doubting his resurrection would also mean he doubted Jesus was the Christ (because he was dead) but that would be an implication to the passage and not what it's mainly about. - Brother Kel
Romans 9:5 Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are their ancestors, and CHRIST HIMSELF was an Israelite as far as HIS HUMAN NATURE is concerned. AND HE IS GOD, THE ONE who rules over everything and is worthy of eternal praise! Amen.
when the video is 40 min long, you know this is gonna be a stretch. Didn't bother watching, you can re-interpret ANYTHING to mean something else. It is not the book that we understand Jesus is God, it is the Holy Spirit who gives us the understanding of who Jesus is. You would believe Jesus is God only if it is written on some paper? It is already written clearly, and you are still blinded. Go become a muslim, since ur saying the Holy Spirit failed to give us understanding until the mid 16th century when unitarianism began.
I like to use confirmation verses from the same writer. John 14:7,14:9,14:28,15:24, confirm what 20:28 is saying while still establishing separation. All throughout John are examples contrary to the Trinity Lie.
@@scotthix2926 Scott hix, why do you say Jesus is making himself equal with the Father? the bible nowhere teaches this and phil2:6 denies it!!! how can you ask such a question after listening to this teaching? And there are plenty more proofs, just go through a few vids on this channel, and there is heaps more similar channels, and if all else fails read your own bible without your denomination glasses on, and pray for guidance while you read. You according to bible, if you are a christian that is, are "in Christ" and Christ is "in you" so, does that make you equal in every respect to Jesus? So according to your argument, and Jesus is "in the Father," then christians are all co equal with God..?? Is that what you claim??? That is what your statement implies is it not?
@@ken440 phil 2:6 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Philippians 2:5-8 Read the verse again. The subject here is talking of Jesus having humility. Here Jesus by personal choice, chooses to become a creature, a man. Read the context of the verse. A creature cannot choose to become a creature, it is a creature, that is not humility. Humility requires that a person to have the ability to be able to do something and choosing not to for a greater purpose. Analogy Walking across a street. Setup - I am at an intersection with a person who cannot walk and we need to get across. There are 3 scenarios. I can simply walk across and leave the other person there - Jesus does not come to earth and remains God (verse "in the form of God") no humility I can stop and get the person across with me - Jesus becomes man and comes to earth (notice he is still God). The only true example of humility. I cannot get across and fhe other person cannot either - Jesus is a creature just like me ( no humility) So phil 2:6 so Jesus has to be God.
@@scotthix2926 If Jesus did NOT grasp at being equal to the Father, (as it says in the scripture you quote) then why do you say he does?? Phil2:6 certainly points this out, he didnt GRASP AT EQUALITY WITH GOD but that Jesus instead went obediently to the cross, to be the sacrificial lamb of God. At Passover the lamb is not equal to the head of the house, nor is the lamb God, yet its blood saves all who were in the house that night. Its the father of the house who saves his family by sacrificing his best lamb, one of the flock. So Jesus is that lamb (shown by Abraham being willing to sacrifice his son) and in those cases the lamb wasnt the head of house and Issac wasnt Abraham, so why do you tangle up scripture to make Jesus equal with his father?
@@ken440 I did not say he grashs (aka longing for) at being God. I said he is God. God can become a man, a lower life form, aka humility. A man cannot become god, (we try to but that is pride). Taking orders by itself is not humility. Taking orders with the ability to say no is. A creature cannot say no to God. God will not be mocked. This is what phil 2:6 is about. See the verse - "in the form of God" Becuase he is God, he can say yes or no to God the Father. see verse "to be grasps" (a thing to hold onto). Which takes us back to the point of the passage, humility. God becoming man.
Who cam in the flesh and who sent him? John 3:17 KJV For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. So scripture tells us God sent his son, not that God sent himself. John 3:34 KJV For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him . Again scripture states God sent his own son. John 10:36 KJV Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? As shared in previous scripture God (Father) sent the Son this is a great clarification that the father is God, the only God. And Jesus clarifies also he is his son and not God himself. John 17:3 KJV And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. To receive eternal life in heaven we must know two separate beings the only true God which was clarified in previous scripture he is the father. And we must know his son Jesus Christ. Trinity doctrine twists and denies what they scriptures mean they try to flatters those who are spiritually weak with there philosophy. Galatians 4:4 KJV But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, Do not be deceived by vain philosophy read the bible which a child like spirit let God truly lead you and not man made doctrine and traditions.
God bless you. I want to point out somethings about your arguments. If you want to comment back, please answer my refutation and then ask your questions. The first thing you argue about is that the context of John 20 is about "seeing and believing".I could agree with that in a sense. If what you mean by saying that the context is about "seeing and believing" is that the context is primarily about the resurrection of Jesus, and Thomas saw the resurrected Jesus and therefore "saw" him and "believed in" Him, then I would agree. But if what you mean by saying that the context is about "seeing and believing", is that this same "seeing and believing" of John 20, is the same one wich Jesus talked about in John 14, then I would not agree because the context is completely different. In John 20, the context is about the resurrection of Jesus, as we read in v.1-10, that he was not in the tomb, then he showed up to Mary in v.11-18, then appeared to all the disciples in v.19-23, and then to Thomas in v. 26-29. In John 14 we have Jesus telling the disciples where he is going (v.1-4), and then we have the reply of Thomas and Jesus telling him that He is the way to the Father, and that if you know Him, you'll know the Father (v.5-7). And then in v.8 we see that Phillip told Jesus to show (δεικνύμι) them the Father, but Jesus replied in v. 9 saying that the one who has seen him, has seen the Father. So when Jesus tells Phillip that if you see him you'll see the Father, Jesus is answering the reply of Philip about "showing" the Father, with "seeing" (οράω) him, and therefore seeing the Father by seeing Jesus. The reason why Jesus says that Phillip will "see" the Father through seeing Jesus, is that he is answering Philip's reply of "showing" the Father. And this is also proven by the fact that Jesus replied in v.9 with the same word Phillip used: "how do you say: show (δεικνύμι) me the Father?" Therefore, the word "οράω" that means "to see", here it means "understand" or "discern". And it can mean that acording to strong 3708. Don't get me wrong, I'm not denying that Phillip literally saw Jesus, cause it is obvious that he did. He saw Jesus with his own eyes, but with regards to the Father, he didn't literally saw the Father, rather "understood" him, or "experienced" him, because Jesus is the expresion of the Father, his logos, his word, etc. And I would agree that to see Jesus is to se two persons, but in the sense that I have already explained: Phillip truly saw Jesus, but understood the Father. So this is how Thomas, Phillip and the other apostles (including Judas in v.22) saw Jesus and the Father in John 14. In John 14, the context isn't seeing and believing but the relationship of Jesus and the Father, cause He is way to the Father, the Father abides in him, the Father does the works, etc. In John 20, it could be (not that it is) "seeing and believing", but only and primarily in the context of the resurrection of Jesus, and that the apostles saw, and believed in Him.The context is different, we can't say that both texts are about"Seeing and believing" in the same sense. I will comment more things in a moment. Please, wait until I finish.
You say that when Jesus said that He will come, He was referring to his resurrection. I don't think so. The whole context of John 14:15-31 is about those who obey the commands of God, and about the coming of the Holy Spirit (in pentecost). And, especially, v.16-17, right before v.18 when Jesus says "I will come", talk about the coming of the Holy Spirit. And then in v. 18 we find something interesting. That is, Jesus literally said: "I come to you", in present tense (maybe you already know this). Jesus used the word "έρχομαι" (to come) in present tense, but it is often translated "I will come". So what does this mean if in the antecedent verse He is talking about the coming of the Holy Spirit and now He says "I come to you"? Well that through the coming of the Holy Spirit, Christ is really present with us. This is because the context is about the coming of the Holy Spirit, Jesus says that the Spirit remains or "dwells" in them (using the verb "μένω" in present, and we also see in Romans 8:9 that the the Holy Spirit is Spirit of Christ, and He has to dwell in us, so that we can be if God) and that the Spirit will be with them (using ειμί in future tense), and also because of the present tense of the verb "έρχομαι" (to come). If yoy want to say that Jesus is talking about his resurrection, provide contextual reasons for that. I haven't finished yet. Please wait a little more.
You sometimes say that Jesus told to all the disciples that in that day they would know that the Father was in Jesus, but sometimes you say it as if Jesus only told that to Thomas. And it seems to me, that somehow it helps you to argue that: "Jesus told Thomas he would know(chp. 14), and in that day (chp. 20) he knew, therefore this and that.." I think we both know that in v.20 Jesus said: "in that day you (υμείς, ειμι in plural 2 person form) will know". He was refering to all the disciples. He also said γινώσκω (know) in the plural form γνώσεσθε. I would like you to clarify that point, that is, was Jesus refering to all the disciples or only to Thomas? I'm not done yet.
About the greek word construction, that you say that it is emphatic (wich I do believe) and that it is emphatically referring to two persons, I would simply ask for you to provide scholarly evidence that this word construction of the phrase "ο κύριος μου και ο Θεός μου" is always, amd every time, a reference to two persons (you can mention the Granville Sharp rule if you want). Because already having demonstrated what the context of John 14 is, and the context of John 20, it would be more likely to interpret the "είπεν αυτώ" as directly to Jesus (and only to Jesus) cause there are no contextual nor exegetical reasons to say, that the word "God" is refering to the Father since v24-28 are about seeing the resurrected Jesus. Let me prove that: In other videos, you provide John 20:17 and 31 as your contextual proves that Thomas was refering to two persons. In v.17, of course Jesus is refering to one person. No one would deny that. The construction is: τον πατέρα μου, και πατέρα υμών (my Father and your Father) τον Θεόν μου, και Θεόν υμών (my God and your God) I think that Jesus was truly emphasizing that his Father and his God, was the same as Mary's God and Father. I would ask you to tell me about any Trinitarian who denies that. And in v. 31, we also believe that Christ is the Son of God, and that John's purpose in writing was for us to know that. But acording to John 5:18, Jesus being the Son of God, is to be equal with God, and that is what the jews themselves understood (as you yourself say, John expects us to have an understanding of what Jesus taught by the end of the gospel, so we must know what Son of God actually means in John 20:31). And why did the jews understood it this way? Because Jesus heald a man in the Sabbath (v.1-9). When the jews were trying to kill him (v.16) they were doing this because he was doing this things in the Sabbath. And then Jesus gives the reason of why He could work on Sabbath: His Father was working at that very time, and so He could work as well (v.17). So the jews understood this how they did. The Son is equal with God (v.18) because He can work in the Sabbath as his Father did. In v.19-23 what we read is the relationship of the Father and the Son. We see the perfect harmony in the role of the Son and the Father, and how Jesus does everything that the Father does, not by himself (v.19) but by the the authority that has been given to him (v.26-27). So I really don't think there is contextual reason to say that "God" in John 20:28 is refering to the Father. And even more, we now that Thomas was unbelieving by v.27. But, Thomas was doubting, or unbelieving, if Jesus had resurrected or not (v.25). He was not doubting about the Father cause he was obviously still believing in God. And when Thomas saw Jesus, he beleived IN Jesus.(v.29). So Thomas' confession was a belief in Jesus. When Thomas confessed "my Lord and my God", he was confessing his belief in Jesus as we see in v.29, since he only doubted about the resurrection of Jesus, and not about the Father. So this is why Thomas' confession can't refer to Jesus and the Father. Are we going to say that Thomas was even doubting about the existence of God? Sure not. And you said in another video(John 20:28 and the blind guides): "Thomas isn't making this statement concerning who he thought Jesus was" and therefore he is not refering to Jesus as "Lord and God". Well, let's just say this: if someone tells you that he is God and Lord, and that he is going to die and raise in the third day, but it turns out that he doesn't, will you believe he is God and Lord? Of course not. Now, if another guy tells you the same thing, and it turns out that he does raise in the third day, will you believe he is God and Lord? Of course you will. You'll believe everything that he told you, including that he was Lord and God. Jesus himself, and the apostles gave testimony that He was God in other places (not gonna get to them now), but Thomas didn't saw Jesus until Jesus himself showed up to him, and then he believed. This are the contextual reasons that I give to say that "είπεν αυτώ" refers only to Jesus. And I want to ask you about psalm 35:23 wich says the same phrase that Thomas used, but only for the Father. I know other people have ask you that already, but I haven't seen an answer from you yet. Is that psalm refering to the Father only or is there another person in view? I really hope to get an answer. It took me a whole week to prepare this. I'll be praying for us to see God's thruth and to know him better.
*John 14* - _1"Don't let your heart be troubled. Believe in God. Believe _*_also_*_ in me..._ *_...7If you had known me, you would have known my Father also._*_ From now on, you know him, and have seen him." 8Philip said to him, _*_"Lord, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us."_*_ 9Jesus said to him, _*_"Have I been with you such a long time, and do you not know me, Philip?_*_ He who has seen me has seen the Father. How do you say, 'Show us the Father?'_ Throughout the entire discourse, Jesus speaks of both himself and His Father. People saw Jesus, though they could not see the Father. And so when Thomas asked to see the Father, Jesus reminded him that he really didn't know Him. Why? Because Jesus was living proof of the same God and Father who made the promise of salvation to Abraham. Whatever the case, and I'm not saying that the seeing and believing is proportionate to Jesus and the Father, though Thomas' declaration most definitely fits the context of Jesus and the Father - SEE: _Believe in God. Believe _*_also_*_ in me_
So John 14 tells us that if U ever see the invisible God U will stare right at Jesus Christ for he is the visible body (Son) that the invisible God (Jehova) was wearing so he could communicate with the world that he created.
When is a trinitarian apologist going to comment on the Greek grammar of this verse to contradict your interpretation? This video has been out for more than a year and to date, no one has commented in contradiction of the Greek grammar... "the Lord of me and the God of me" - two persons in view
Hi Brian, your explanation leaves me with words and an explanation that has no comprehensible meaning, i.e. words without meaning. Do you think that the Bible revelation was intended to leave us with an incomprehensible idea about "who" God is? Question: If the God of the Bible wanted us to know that He is absolutely "one person" (in the common sense of the word "person"), how, do you think, would He have had to say it, to convince the reader of that He was only "one person"? Have a look at Matthew 16:23 Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! - Does this mean that Peter is ontologically "satan"?
Thank you Brian. However when you look at what is written, I suggest that you re-examine the English word "by". This word is mistranslated from the Greek words"en" and "dia" which should be rendered "in" and "through or because of" respectively. The creation is never said to be "ek" meaning source or origin or out from, with reference to Christ. God, the Father created this world alone, all by Himself. He did this by speaking it into existence.
After Thomise placed his fingers in the holes of Christ, he started worshipping God (not Jesus) by looking up to the heavens, saying, my Lord, and my God. This probably would have been the case because the scriptures do not say Thomas knelt down in front of Jesus saying to him, my Lord, and my God. The scriptures would have told us exactly what Thomised did.
I don’t think it’s wrong to call Jesus God even though the trinity is a lie as well as the “God born a man” idea. like calling Joseph ruler/king of Egypt but Pharaoh was above him as the supreme king. When God the Father raised Jesus and gave him all authority in heaven and earth, sitting him on his throne, Jesus became God over everything with only one greater than him. God means the power or the mighty one. Jesus has been given all power so he is God over all. Is it wrong to call him this?
If John 20:28 is true, Luke 24 is a lie. in luke 24, you got 11 apostles all present when Jesus shows up. that's 12- Judas. tommy included. So who lied?
Jesus is Rev3vs14 These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: Read and Meditate Prov8 Rev1vs2 John3vs32-36 John17
According to John 20:28,29 that makes Jesus the father and the Son and and the Holy Ghost if God is the Holy Ghost. The only True God was in a human body reconciling the world unto himself, not to some other.
Tell me, am I mistaken? I don't believe in the Trinity, but I believe that Jesus is YHWH manifested in the flesh. So, in the flesh and blood named Jesus is YHWH Himself. We are bodies and blood; we have bodies, but within our bodies is our spirit, the human spirit. However, in Jesus the Messiah, it is YHWH Himself. In John 2:19-22, Jesus declares that He Himself will destroy the temple of His body and raise it up. So, what do you think? Who resurrected Jesus? The Father, or did He raise Himself? Personally, I believe that YHWH resurrected Him. :) Why do I think so? Because it's not 'the Father,' 'the Son,' or 'the Spirit' who is YHWH, but YHWH reveals Himself to us. YHWH reveals Himself to us as the Father; YHWH is the Father, the Son, the Spirit, the Savior, the Righteous One, the Judge, Love, Goodness, the Consuming Fire, the Beginning, and the End. As He said about Himself, 'I am who I am,' 'I am.' For this reason, I believe that YHWH revealed Himself in the flesh, in Jesus the Messiah, to show and reveal to us sonship. To reveal how we should behave to be children of YHWH, by imitating Jesus. As Isaiah wrote about Immanuel [Isaiah 7:14]. The body became the ultimate sacrifice for sin, which YHWH raised to show us the promised resurrection of the dead. YHWH Himself gave glory to Himself, for who can give Him greater glory than Himself? For this reason, Jesus on one hand shows us how to be sons of YHWH, by speaking and doing things for us to imitate, and on the other hand, He equates Himself with God and allows Himself to be treated as God. - As a digression, I'll note that the Greek word 'Lord' [κύριος] in the Septuagint is a substitute for the word YHWH. So, how should we interpret the text when we replace the word [2962. kurios] with the word YHWH? Shouldn't we do that since the Septuagint indicates that [2962. kurios] is a substitute for the name of God, YHWH? - So who is God to YHWH? Isn't He Himself the only God for Himself? Isn't this exactly what Satan desired, to be like YHWH, to be God for Himself? Does YHWH swear by Himself because there is none greater? Yes - Genesis 22:16, Isaiah 45:23, Jeremiah 22:5, Jeremiah 49:13. Can YHWH anoint Himself? Yes - Psalm 45:6-7. Can He exalt Himself? Yes - Isaiah 33:10. So what do you think, who is Jesus? Just another human like you and me? Were any of us born of a virgin? Was any of us foretold by the prophets? Is He a unique individual? Who do you think He is? How do you also relate, for example, to passages like Isaiah 43:15, 45:21, and 45:23 in the context of Philippians 2:9-11, 48:12 in the context of Revelation 22:13? What YHWH says about Himself in Isaiah, the apostles write in the context of Jesus. How do you understand Ezekiel 34:11-25? How do you understand 2 Corinthians 5:19, that God was in Christ? Lastly, how do you understand the words of YHWH in Zechariah 3:2? If you find the time, please respond, may YHWH bless you
In the Septuagint Psalm 84:3 the Greek has the same word construct as John 20:28. Here the sons of Korach are addressing God only. Psalm 84:3 My King and my God. John 20:28 My Lord and my God. I’m not a trinitarian.
I do not believe in the trinity I am a 1 God believing Christian. however' I do believe God was Manifested in the Flesh and died on the cross shedding his blood for us through the flesh his Son Jesus Christ. Acts 20:28 Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. 1john3:16 KJV Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 1 Timothy 3:16 King James Version 16 And without controve
O KYRIOS MOU KAI O THEOS MOU - John 20:18 Greek New Testament O THEOS MOU KAI O KYRIOS MOU - Psalms 34:23 Greek Septuagint 'Arise, O Lord, and attend to my judgment, [even] to my cause, my God and my Lord.' - Psalm 34:23 Septuagint ἐξεγέρθητι, Κύριε, καὶ πρόσχες τῇ κρίσει μου, ὁ Θεός μου καὶ ὁ Κύριός μου, εἰς τὴν δίκην μου - Psalm 34:23 Septuagint ὁ Θεός μου καὶ ὁ Κύριός μου The God of me and The Lord of me 'exegertheti kurie kai prosches te krisei mou o theos mou kai o kurios mou eis ten diken mou' O THEOS MOU KAI O KYRIOS MOU The God of Me and The Lord of Me - - - 'I said therefore unto ye, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins.' - John 8:24 'As soon then as He had said unto them, I AM, they went backward, and fell to the ground.' - John 18:6 'Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up The Son of man, then shall ye know that I AM' - John 8:28 'EGO EIMI O ON' - Exodus 3:14 / Apocalypse 1:8 - - - Hello, would you be willing to get in touch with me? I can prove to you the Divine Inspiration of the 1904 Patriarchal Text as well as the Dogmas of the Holy Orthodox Church. ~ silouanos mathew GreekScriptures (dot) com BibleProofs (dot) org
My Lord and my God .... is just a surprised expression and reaction from Thomas when he see the wound on Jesus's body. It's just like saying ... oh my God!
the problem is, for most trinitarians, logic and scripture has little to do with the issue, because they have already accepted it as a Myster. They are caught up in a romantic image of God dieing for them. Many feel its been revealed to them. They suffer a modern gnosticism.
The son of God is when the son is with God in spirit, in heaven. The son of man is when he is in the flesh. The son of man is Jesus. The son of God is Immanuel. Immanuel, which means, God with us. To get to the father you have to go through the son. The son's name is Immanuel, God is the meaning of the name. Through the son, to the father. Immanuel, God with us. MY LORD, MY GOD. one name shared by two. This does not mean God's name is Immanuel, also. Jesus knew that his name was Immanuel, but did not tell us, cause if he did, I would not be here pointing this out to you, what he meant. ( John 5:43) I have come in my father's name and you do not accept me, but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him. If you can find where this is said, Jesus said that I am going to the father and he will love you because you believed I was from God. Did you forget that the son is from the Holy Spirit? This is what Mary was told, what was conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is his father. And when he, the spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. And he will send another Comforter to be with you forever, the spirit of truth. This is the Holy Spirit. Who is to come. The third person. Who is he, who is to come, with the truth? Dan. 10:21 Dan. 12:13 Daniel was told what was written in the book of truth, and will rise up at the end times to receive his inheritance. Daniel, born again, or is it, reborn? And, do you know that, ( Dan.) means Judge. And Daniel is the second son of David, from Abigail of Carmel. Who is the one who will build a temple for the name of the Lord, God, the father, and the son, will come to him and make him their home. But God what's to make a New thing, by taking the two and making one in him. Three in one? You understand. God said when you speak to him, speak to him in spirit. The name Jesus was given to the flesh. The name Immanuel was given to him before he came into this world. This is why God will say to those, "I do not know you." He will only accept the name he gave him. Oh, before I forget. The one who comes in his own name, the one you will accept, is the Holy Spirit, the spirit of truth. Immanuel's father. Jesus died on the cross for our sins, and the sins of the world. RIP But how can he rest in peace if the people worship him and call him God. Judgment has come and the punishment is outside. When you pray to the dead, Death comes. And they are calling him God. Satan has decived the whole world. Like a theif in the night. He will save his people. His people are the fallen ones. Jesus said when he spoke to the people in parables, he was speaking another language. He was speaking in tounges. This is why no one has been able to understand the parables correctly. Seek first his kingdom and his righteousness. The deciples asked Jesus, "Why do you speak to the people in parables? Jesus replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. He only spoke to the people in parables. One is, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle then for a rich man to enter the kingdom of Heaven. With man this is impossible, but with God, all things are possible. In Revelation, the New heaven and the new earth. The Holy city, the New Jerusalem. The Angel who talked with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city it's gate's and it's wall's. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be about 1400 miles in lenght, and as wide as it is high. The measuring rod of gold, is also the needle. It measures about 1400 miles in lenght. It is laid out like a square. A square is a measuring tool like a "L" shape ruler, or a compus. Jesus said, "I will open my mouth in parables, I will utter things hidden since the creation of the World. Ask and it will be given to you. Seek and you will find. Knock and the door will be opened. This could be a spiritual war. The Angel's would be saved and mankind would be left worshiping a false god.
I'm surprised you haven't written a book yet. Between this and your website, you could almost copy, edit and compile a simple explanation and refutation of the trinity both Scripturally and logically. I've only read through a couple books on it so far, but neither of them have really taken the time to tackle the logical issues in the words of trinitarians. For example. I listened to the first 1/3 of the debate again with Brown and White. In Brown's explanation he clearly equivocates around 21 minutes in his explanation of whether YHWH is 3 or 1. He states the one YHWH is a "He,"(who) then says the 3 are part of the one YHWH.God(inferring a *what*), and then goes back to claiming "...how *He* made *Himself* known..." (who again). It's so obviously clear. Anthony points it out, but doesn't really press on the fact the fact enough to expose it's clear illegitimacy. Then White boldly claims that the "Lamb... is clearly *excluded* from the realm of creation..." from Revelation 5 praising of God and His son(which doesn't work anyways b/c there's other examples that show issues with this anyways). So the lamb, that died--isn't created? So Jesus, the one that died--isn't human now? I'm sorry, a human is a creation of God. So at least Jesus is *half* man, or *fully* man really according to trinity. This is sure double-talk, semi-gnosticism(if not fully). I hadn't watched the debate in months since I've been studying all this much more thoroughly and it's so clear through-out the debate the trinitarians pretty much want to DENY Jesus being a man. That's the spirit of the antiChrist according to 1st John. The trinitarians heavily presuppose pre-existence. They don't *want* there to be another possible explanation, so instead of admitting it---they level a charge of unitarians presupposing otherwise. Sorry to rant, but... point is, you should make a book showing these clear issues both with trinity and their proof-texts. I have yet to see another do it that well yet, unless you already know of a book(or books).
Maybe we can't touch it, I don't think there's a issue with Christ being who he claims to be, the issue is coming from the father (spirit) and holy spirit. If you have seen me (Jesus) you have seen the father (spirit) so were is the father and holy spirit? Jesus and father are fine. Jesus and holy spirit are fine but it's father and holy spirit that are the same. They can't be two different spirits. Therefore when Thomas seen Jesus and said my lord and God then yes, OK, but it's different linking the father and holy spirit together because we can't. They are the same.
your misunderstanding what people call the Trinity, or as some call it the God head. there are three separate deities. you have God (the father) the Son and the Holy spirit they are all one in thought . Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner. (John 5:19 NASB) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, a nd apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. (John 1:1-4 NASB) Now look at Genesis 1 not once mention Christ or the word. it speaks of no one other then the Holy spirit. ok so this is going to be hard to follow but Christ is the words of God. Gods words created the earth. Gods words Let there be light. God said let there be expanse (land) so its hard to grasp because what is going on does not go on in our world. I cant take my words and turn them into a child. but we don't and can't understand at this point and maybe ever the things that God knows Job 40:6-24. we may not understand it all but the bible tells us that Christ is the son of God and he came to earth in the flesh and gave up equality with God Philippians 2:6-11 lived on this earth in human form faced every temptation Man has faced but never gave in and never sin, then after giving us a perfect example of how we are suppose to be he was crucified on a cross and after three days he was raised from the dead so that our sins may be forgiven. now if you believe that and you believe you too can be raised with Christ through baptism Romans 6:1-10 then you to can walk in newness of life on this earth and be joined with him in the next. and that my friends is all that matters. who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Philippians 2:6-11 ESV) In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day. Then God said, "Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters." God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so. God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day. Then God said, "Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear"; and it was so. God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good. Then God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them"; and it was so. The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good. There was evening and there was morning, a third day. Then God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years; and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth"; and it was so. God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also. God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day. Then God said, "Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens." God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good. God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth." There was evening and there was morning, a fifth day. Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind"; and it was so. God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good. Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. God blessed them; and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth." Then God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food"; and it was so. God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day. (Genesis 1:1-31 NASB)
My Lord............He who has seen ME
and
My God............has seen THE FATHER
The Trinity Delusion amen and amen my beloved brother. amen. and amen.
The Trinity Delusion what do you believe my friend?
The Trinity Delusion of the diety of Christ?
We are talking about Thomas and if he called Jesus God.
In greek if you talk to someone directly you DON'T put an "S" at the end of the word.
if I say to you "ΘΕΕ" that means I call YOU God.
If I say to you " O ΘΕΟΣ" That means I talk about someone not present.
If your name is "ΤΙΜΟΘΕΟΣ" (Timothy=honor God) and I will meet you on the street I will not call you " O ΤΙΜΟΘΕΟΣ" but I will call you "ΤΙΜΟΘΕE without an article". In Greek Grammar, we call this declension.
Ονομαστική Nominative: ΘΕΟΣ , ΤΙΜΟΘΕΟΣ, ΑΝΘΡΩΠΟΣ.
Κλητική Vocative: ΘΕΕ ΤΟΜΟΘΕΕ, ΑΝΘΡΩΠΕ
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Greek_grammar#Masculine_nouns
el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%9A%CE%BB%CE%AF%CF%83%CE%B7_%CF%84%CF%89%CE%BD_%CE%BF%CF%85%CF%83%CE%B9%CE%B1%CF%83%CF%84%CE%B9%CE%BA%CF%8E%CE%BD
But even if you are so naive as to not understand nothing from grammar read all chapter of John 20.
The chapter is about Thomas not believing in Resurrection. When Jesus put Thomas's hands on the holes then Thomas surprised and said: "OH MY GOD" "o theos" with an "S" and an article referring to YHWH. And Jesus replied and he didn't call himself GOD ... the miracle is "to believe that Jesus is the Mashiach the Son of God"- John 20:31
Also, Thomas did not use a verb here. In Greek every sentence MUST have a verb otherwise is incorrect except if we have an epiphonema(exclamation). So Thomas used an exclamation... a loud calling or crying out, for example as in surprise, pain, grief, joy, anger, etc.
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/exclamation
Thomas did not say "you are my God" Thomas probably saw in the sky and said: "O my Lord, O my God" (Greeks prefer using the word "and" instead of a comma), talking not to Jesus but to YHWH.
@@GREEKTEDDYYou make a good argument. You could argue that the vocative, ΘΕΕ, says he is calling him God, but you could also argue that in similar line with the presented arguement, that when you speak to the Messiah, you are speaking to Yahshua, he is acting as the appointed Dabar, spokesman or word, your message conveyed through the intermediator directly to Yahweh, the Father, his God and our God. Furthermore, as we are told the Messiah's body was the temple that would be cast down for three days and three nights, it could be argued that God inhabits the Messiah, you could address Yahweh through the Messiah. That doesn't make the temple God. But alas, As you said, the Greek is in the Nominative, O ΘΕΟΣ , thus directed not at the Messiah. (Compare various manuscripts or compilative works such as RP Bayzantine Majority Text, the Textus Receptus, and Wescott-&-Hort.) Further, it is articulated. These Jews are habituated to reserve the articulated theos for the Almighty and only true God. An antharous theos, i.e., unarticulated, can nonblasphemously refer to a mighty one among men, angels, or false deities, as elohim can in Hebrew (note Moses [Exodus 4:1; 7:1], Aaron, judges, angels, unitary dieties such a Dagon, or composite dieties. The bible has many examples. So here we have a case where, by your argument, Mr T, Thomas is expressing out to the Father or in awe as to the Father, apart from the son, when he speaks to the son. Kind of like when someone greets a friend, "God bless you, Jerideth"; "God is Great, Ahmed"; "My God, I missed you Amelia." Is Amelia God? Never may that be the understanding. The context reveals it must be an expression of awe or amazement, just as you said.
Best explanation of this verse I have ever heard. Thank you so much for making this video. 10 years later it is still at work !
yes.. ten years old, but the truth never gets old, really..
*only a few really accept this, tho..
1st Corinthians 8 : 5 - 6
Thanks for bringing this to the Table brother Kel , very enlightening ❤
The apostle John was in the same room with Thomas and the rest of the disciples when Jesus appeared before them. Many years later, John made the following statement:
1John 4:12 "No one has seen God at any time...."
No one would have also included Thomas.
Butasfor Me
True, and no one in that room saw The Almighty God unless there are two Gods. As followers of Christ we must believe Christ, and believe His teachings. (John 17:8 ESV) "For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me."
It would be intolerable if we would have Jesus say " I am God and I am here because someone sent me". Also it would be intolerable if we would have Jesus say " I am God, and the words that I say are not mine, but someone else's.
4321grp That is a real good argument! I might use that!
Excellent observations - best not to tell trinitarians though, tend to be sensitive about such things :)
True, still, no one has 'seen God at any time...' The seeing God in the Messiahs actions and hearing God in his words are figurative, as the Messiah clearly says that he says nothing except what the Father tells him to say, he obeys his Father's commandments, and does what he sees the Father doing. He is the image of God in the sense how Adam and Eve were before they were corrupted. In know way are any of God's children equal to the Messiah. Indeed, the Messiah repeatedly said he was a sent-servant of God, and said the Father was his God. He admitted twice to not knowing the time of the end (nor will until the angel coming out from God's sanctuary gives him a commandment to start the harvest Rev14), and mistakenly culled a fig tree for not bearing fruit out of season, and didn't know who touched his garment, &c. All those who truly believe he is God, when showing reverence before an image of him, are committing both blasphemy and idolatry.
True, still, no one has 'seen God at any time...' The seeing God in the Messiahs actions and hearing God in his words are figurative, as the Messiah clearly says that he says nothing except what the Father tells him to say, he obeys his Father's commandments, and does what he sees the Father doing. He is the image of God in the sense how Adam and Eve were before they were corrupted. In know way are any of God's children equal to the Messiah. Indeed, the Messiah repeatedly said he was a sent-servant of God, and said the Father was his God. He admitted twice to not knowing the time of the end (nor will until the angel coming out from God's sanctuary gives him a commandment to start the harvest Rev14), and mistakenly culled a fig tree for not bearing fruit out of season, and didn't know who touched his garment, &c. All those who truly believe he is God, when showing reverence before an image of him, are committing both blasphemy and idolatry.
Thank you for the teaching brother kel. Praise the Lord, glory to him for him putting you in our path and giving us his word. Hallelujah.
O KYRIOS MOU KAI O THEOS MOU - John 20:18 Greek New Testament
O THEOS MOU KAI O KYRIOS MOU - Psalms 34:23 Greek Septuagint
I was closer to my dad than anybody and he passed away in 2008. A year later I met my wife. She's heard stories about my dad and people tell her what he was like. She once told a relative of mine... "I just wish so badly that I would have been able to met him and get to know him." Then my aunt said... "if you know Sir, you know his dad because they are just alike."
Brother Kel thanks for giving that passage it's proper perspective using the ENTIRE gospel of John rather than extracting one verse and using it out of context like others. If someone sees this video and still denies it then then so be it. This is the most complete and exhaustive explanation of that passage I've seen. Truly great work and I for one appreciate it.
God bless. Shalom.
Sir Williams are the Father and the Son two different people? How many do U expect to see if U get there? I am pretty sure that God is a spirit and can’t be seen so do U think U will be able to see a spirit?
@sir w. ~ my goodness, this post is over ten years old.. tysm, for sharing..
@@tedcarter5564 We are of two natures -- Spirit and Flesh. Genesis 1.26 and Genesis 2.7; the *_Image_* of God, and the *_Dust_* of the ground. And even you should understand that "image of God" and "dust of the ground" are two separate things. When we give up the flesh (including ego), we awaken spirit, and *_as spirit_* we can see spirit.
😎♥✝🇺🇸💯
I listen to this channel while at work. I agree and makes sense to me.
Best explanation I've heard on John 20:28
O KYRIOS MOU KAI O THEOS MOU - John 20:18 Greek New Testament
O THEOS MOU KAI O KYRIOS MOU - Psalms 34:23 Greek Septuagint
the best explanantion could also be that is is a lie.
Luke 24, thomas was there when Jesus appears. Luke's intention was to be as precise and accurate so theo would know with absolute certainty. He didn't say my gospel needs to be crossreferenced with john and mark's. he says all eleven were there. if we read we can see this story contradicts John 20's thomas story.
the other more silly notion with john 20s thomas story is that they already saw someone come back from teh dead. yet for some strange reason, they did not believe it when it happened again?
the stories and actions of the apostles don't fit once you start to think about it.
for some strange reason, luke says he will werite so we know what happened and decides none of the major divine statements that we find in john were worth writing about?
he dind't say im telling you this from one point of view and in order to get the full view, there are these other guys mark , matt and john...you also need to read their stuff. his intentionwas clear. he wantred theo to know what happened and not beleive stuff being said ..... suff others were writing about. so even in the beginning, people were lying about what happened
*_Thank you for your patience and persistence._* Like a simple joke with a powerful punchline, I finally get it.
Thomas, in John 20.28, is finally getting the punchline, as am I. Thomas finally sees Jesus abiding in God and God abiding in Jesus -- *_harmony instead of identity._*
😎♥✝🇺🇸💯
Well said,only a few will ever grasp this Truth! Seems that Thomas had a problem understanding this until he received the Holy Ghost and was enlightened. The book of Revelation is the revelation of Jesus.
Oneness actually makes sense at times. But arianism????? No its clear Jesus is God and Oneness get this right. The way u guys say it is a massive stretch to make it work and it gets debunked easily.
Jesus is before all things . And created all things.
Multiple times in revelation He is Almighty God and Almighty One.
@@Alexsid-lf8ovJesus did not create, everything was created through him, not by him, for example... A carpenter was told to build a house by the owner of the company, so to be able to do that, the owner have to give the materials, the plan and the idea. That is also how Jehovah God did. He gave Jesus the ingredients and the idea, and Jesus did what Jehovah told him to do. Just as what Jehovah told Moses to do, to write his words, now... Is Moses the author of the scriptures? Isn't it God?
John wrote that all thing made by him. Chapter 1.
Thank you. This is so good. All glory to God.
Thank you so very much. Stay totally blessed brother.
2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that GOD WAS IN CHRIST, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Yep, God did it. And He was in His Christ doing it.
What if Thomas in fact was expressing praise and aknowledgement to God for now seeing for himself that Jesus infact was alive. I believe he was speaking to God at that moment . My Lord and my God...... Jesus you are alive.
Genaro Sanchez
An exclamation just like when we see something awesome or extraordinary in the sky or an accident. Funny how this is being eisegesis by xtians into something describing or see GOD in that instant a man-god. If jesus’ disciples were jews would they not understand better the attributes of GOD ?
... and why did jesus ask for food ? Does GOD or spirit consume foodstuff ?
@@zainiabdullah621 he would if Jesus is fully God and fully man.
@@scotthix2926 An Immortal soul can not be dead. EVER!
A valid possibility, but without roots in the Gospel of John.
I understand this more true than when i endorsed the trinity. One God, our Father Yahweh, and one Son, Jesus, is more easier to understand once this is realized. Thank you brother for your diligence, may your actions be pleasing to our Lord and our God.
congratulations for your discovery of truth. Overturning cherished popular-beliefs without use of force, in those with integrity, comes as a result of a love & dedication for truth. |We must apply this love of truth to all things. Thanks for sharing
So then who is Jesus? A creature or a little god or a man.
An excellent explanation of these verses & context. The GK term of ""...My Lord "" (of me) & God (of me) seems to be an echo of 1Cor 8:6.
Well done.
Regards,
Phil....... A Christadelphian.
Thank you for a clear explanation!
Acts 7:55,56 - But he (Stephen), being full of holy spirit gazed into heaven
caught sight of God's glory ''AND'' of Jesus, standing at God's ''RIGHT
HAND'', and he said: I behold the heavens open up and the son of man
''STANDING'' at God's ''RIGHT HAND''.
Psalms 110:1 - The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord is: '' 'SIT' at my '' RIGHT''
'HAND''until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.'' - Amen
Lorenzo Llamas Do U actually can see an invisible Spirit. There is only one that I know of that can be seen and that is Jesus.
Great teaching , Man. Shalom!❤
Yes I understand now! so when Thomas answered he was saying Jesus was Lord and Father was God because to see Jesus is also to see the Father. Thus. " my Lord ( Jesus) and my God (Father) because the two are one.
Dawn Van Naam amen Dawn. amen. go and teach this to all nations.
Dawn Van Naam i will recommend also you watch THEWORDPROPHET channel as well. he is a brilliant man. holy man . Humble man of God who will teach you the same. but with clarity as well.
This would be an appropriate explanation if the vocative were used in the expression, as it would direct speach to the Messiah. Nominatives were used instead. In ordinary sentence construction, they simply are the subject of the sentence. Within a quote and without a verb, they are exclaimations directed at someone else not seen to be there. MrT notes it well early in the commentary. In short, Thomas is amazed, thus in awe he shouts the exclamation directed to the Father first. The definite article before theos is reserved for Yahweh God, and it is used here. It an Oh were to be used here, it would be dropped in deference to article. In most of the new testament writings, the Nominatives used do refer to Lord and God grouped together , do indeed refer to Lord (Yahushua) and God (Yahweh), just not in this case. The result is still, that the Messiah isn't God.
So it’s not a trinity it’s a duo?
No lol yehovah is the father and his son is the son of God Jesus is also mighty God notice that Jehovah is almighty God there’s 2 different titles plus yehovah is the GOD of gods and lord of lords yes Jesus is a god because yehovah created Jesus billions of years ago before the universe that’s why he’s the first born of all creation
John says that Thomas' statement was addressed to Jesus ("Thomas answered and said to him"). So, no matter how hard you try to interpret it as addressed to Jesus _and_ the Father, it won't be consistent with John's preface.
Yes Thomas addressed his statement to Jesus. And when you see Jesus you see the Father.
@@TheTrinityDelusion
So, you agree that Thomas is addressing *one person* with the words, "my Lord and my God"? In other words, he isn't addressing Jesus as "my Lord" and the Father as "my God"?
I agree that seeing Jesus would be tantamount to seeing the Father at work (since Jesus only did the Father's works and spoke the Father's words; John 14:10, 24; 5:19, 30). But that isn't the kind of "seeing" that is going on at John 20:28, which in context is simply "seeing that Jesus is really there"... nothing more.
@@Bowen12676 Thomas is confessing that he really believes Jesus rose from the dead by confessing what you could only confess of Jesus, to see Jesus is to see the Father. "How can you say "Show us the Father?" Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me?"
Where is the Father?
Wao Wao I wish everyone would watch dis, amazing explanation thanks.
Uh this is very nice, God bless ya!
Praise JAH you people!
VERY clear teaching !!! the TRUTH !!! LOVE IT, Love to you my brother !!!
(Acts 20:28“Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.”)
Isaiah 25:9 It will be said on that day, “Behold, this is our God; we have waited for him, that he might save us. This is the Lord; we have waited for him; let us be glad and rejoice in his salvation.”
Does Acts 20:28 say "church of the Lord" or "church of God"? How do you manage do know which manuscript variant to use?
In John 20:28 remember this that Thomas had a pre condition given to his fellow disciples that he will never believe and have faith to Jesus unless he saw his wounds in his hands and in his body and he could touches it and enter his finger unto the wound that is his pre condition before he believes. And after a few days which had been passed Jesus reappear again but this time he called Thomas to come nearer and asked Thomas to touches his wound in his hands and enter his fingers on the hole on his body and after he did it Thomas exclaimed "MY LORD AND MY GOD," and Jesus Christ did not rebuke Thomas which simply means Thomas faith is true and correct that he is LORD AND GOD logically speaking there is no contentious regarding the belief of Thomas which is base on his pre condition which ultimately materialized.
'
Ariel Santoria Seems that is the way it happened.
Great video!
what a wonderful message .He who has seen Jesus has seen the Father.Jesus is the only way to the father.Those who cannot abide in Jesus do so because they are not of God! it is that simple!
Thank you,God bless you
Beautiful explanation! I hope James White watches this video and stops confusing more people, there will be people still wondering around about this and that, adding to the text and coming up with various ideas, because triniarians won't ever have enough about wondering about God and Jesus, therefore they will continue to make more stuff up, James White himself is good at doing that.
The problem is, that Trinitarians share much in stated belief to a non-sensicle belief as do those upholding the Flat Earth Society. The difference is, that most Flat Earthers realize it's a farce, but Trinitarians actually fear for their mortal well being if they challenge the belief, plus they have a romantic attachment to the notion that God actually died on our behalf. I have heard some go so far as to say that if they were to accept that the Messiah wasn't God, and therefore God himself die for us, that the beauty of the faith would disappear for them!!! They can't accept that someone actually achieved the impossible, and lived a sinless adult life. We are called to imitate him on our journey to perfection. Besides, if God was to die, it couldn't just be an appendage. And let's face it, Simeese twins are two people conjoined, because while they share the same body, they are cognitively separate , and have separate wills, even if they walk lock-&-step together. The trinity is unavoidably tritheism , despite what adherents say.
It is strange how some let a veil of bias cloud there minds, and sometimes the littleless thing finally clicks. They can come to you and express things they never saw and heard, and you recall that others or yourself have mentioned these same things but it's like they never heard them before. They can become so enthusiastic as more and more opens up to them in a copious flow, and during this, sometimes they discover something you yourself never saw. Then there are others that go to their graves with functional eyes that don't see, working ears that don't hear, and minds wrapped up in confusion and mysteries that proved to be a maze they never escaped. God states he isn't an author of confusion, and scriptures reveals the great church to be Babylon, mother of harlots and mysteries. Her daughters are prophesized to return to her, but the world will be awestruck when she collapses. Her greatest mystery doctrine that she holds as her ultimate test of the true faith, is the Trinity, that she states is the greatest of mysteries. Those that reputiate it are called heresies or cults, but in fact, she is the greatest heresy and cult out there. I hope White oneday opens his eyes, and humble himself to allow scriptures to reveal themselves. Children are capable of seeing the truth it is said, and it is so. But the sad fact is, to accept the Trinity, you have to forgo logic. When you forgo logic, it's hard to accept any evidence to the contrary of the belief you hold. That's why Satan, who is the master and Father of Lies, crafted it as such. It's victims will only see the truth, if they pray to God for guidance and allow the spirit work. But the Church uses fear of eternal torturous damnation to lock the doors to the mind, and shut out light. But the church can nowhere point to damnation for questioning, or even rejecting the Trinity. And then they make the argument that God's love is so great, he died for us, when all scripture says it is impossible for him to die. Yet they deminish the amazing and inspiring accomplishment of the Messiah in conquering sin, and that a mortal man that longed to escape death, let his death serve for humanities good. Trinity makes God's laws an impossible burden, and takes away God's uncorruptable nature to sin and to death. To say God can die lessons God, and contradicts scriptures. It also lessons the pain of the Father permitting the Messiah, or any of the martyrs, for dieing for the truth, for us. The Trinity accomplishes the desires of Satan. It elevates his 1/2 truth to Adam and Eve to an outright lie in the deification of the Messiah. It is no different than most of paganism, that elevates champions to godship. And it fulfills the perverse desire for Satan to have God die or be deminished. It promotes the distortion of scriptures so all manner of false doctrines can prevail. That it was never "revealed" to Church Fathers until the 4th century, but appeared in the oldest major civilizations early in history and became commonplace is revealing. It obstructs Jews and other monotheists from seeing the Messiah for who he is. And Babylon the Great takes pleasure in boasting that it was revealed to it's NeoPlatonist fathers. It is a mental trap, a prison, for which we must pick at the locks to free our loved ones, to fulfill God's invitation and command, to 'Come out of her, my children.' to join the remnant that keep the commandments.
@@levernallanbowles4093 read Jobs book God made the Earth Flat not a ball
Wonderful teaching!
I think John 11 can be applied here as well concerning the seeing and believing. For Thomas witnessed the raising of lazarus. Obviously a shadow of what was going to happen with Jesus. Jesus saying that he was glad for their sakes, that he was not there earlier to keep Lazarus from dying, but that they may see the Glory of God and believe that it was he who sent him. I find it interesting that Thomas was pointed out as not understanding what was to happen. I think Thomas when proclaiming my lord, my God finally understood what he witnessed with the raising of Lazarus. He understood that it was God who sent Jesus and the God raised Jesus.
Good explanation!!!!
It is simply that Thomas did not believe that Jesus (Peace be upon him) was still alive, so he was shocked to see him alive. So the utterance "My Lord and My God" is an exclamation not that he was calling Jesus "My lord and my God." It is very easy to understand.
No no thats your Theory, Thomas said, . My lord and my God to jesus . because jesu is God youe interpreting thouegh your own thinking . this explanation doesn't even make sense.
Did God Make things Complicated fOR us to Read and Understand thE verses provided.. My lord and My God thats what he says he iS seeing and believing .. Blessed are those who has not seen but believe.. Its easy for us to believe especially those who have love fOR one another, for Our God is Love and he will lead us to understanding.
No it's not complicated. Thomas is referring the God of Jesus. Jesus just spend three chapters explaining why.
Thank you!
This is amazing 🤩 i always had a feeling thomas wasn't calling Jesus God in that verse. But rather speaking of 2. I just never took the time to look into it. At the beginning of that same chapter, it says " the LORD! has risen" why would Thomas change to calling him God? 🎉🎉
It is Demonic Delusion making their Jesus as a Deity - "Jesus is God and God is Jesus" - Mantra for God Jesus.
And not being weak in faith, he did not consider his own body, already dead (since he was about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb. He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, (Romans 4:19-24 NKJV)
Been thinking a bit lately about how in Romans Paul makes quite an important link between Abrahams faith in a son that had yet to be brought to life , and our faith in God son who was testified to be brought to life....
Our faith in God seems to be not a "general thing " but quite specific ..
So our faith in Jesus is related to our understanding of Gods faithfulness so to speak
I forgot to mention that I quoted the new advent bible with
john 20.28 Thomas answered, Thou art my Lord and my God
sorry.
The actual wording is; "the Lord of me and the God of me"
Some Bibles translators like twisting scripture to say something other than the original text
The following verses also hint at the idea that our faith in Jesus is linked to our understanding of Gods faithfulness
He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God. (I Peter 1:20, 21 NKJV)
1 Corinthians 15
15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins.
God did raise him up from the dead. But in this verse Jesus said he will raise the temple which is his own body Jesus is God and man divity and humanity infused togheter 19Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21But he spake of the temple of his body.
+gypsytellingthetruth "My words are not my own but His who sent me." - Jesus
@TheTrinityDelusion
So when jesus prays to the father are they the fathers words? Jesus says he has been given power from his father to lay down his life and take it up again.
A sentence or two later John tells us “These things are written so that you may believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” !!!!
There is the reason John wrote his book straight from the horses mouth. If he had wanted us to garner any different conclusion he would have said so! But lo the blind lead the blind and the false teaches will be shattered on the great day.
Seeing all these misleaded/wrong comments, I want to say something about. The word of God must in the same time be revealed and hidden. Revealed to humble hearts and hidden (for their own benefit) from pride hearts. So never make conclusions your self.
We only must trust, the church that the apostoles founded, the tradition and the wholy fathers. We as Christians followed Christ based on the apostles, the church (the body of Christ) and the tradition since we had no gospel in the beginning.
So let's be humble and wise and not doing our own interpretation. What do you think, that (true-orthodox) Christians were in darkness and suddenly after 2000 years we were born to bring light with our youtube comments?!
There's logically a lot of truth to what you said. However, Christ's church has always seemingly been underground and marginalized. It's not that suddenly we have UA-cam and are enlightened after 2000 years, it's that we've always known and now have UA-cam to voice it. Christ's church has never been a political machine, caught up in world domination and politics. That was Roman catholicism and its offshoots. Christ's church has no interest in war or domination. That's religion, not Christianity.
Great reasoning using only the book of John.
1. The Claim: John 20:28 Refers to Two Persons
The Greek text reads: ὁ κύριός μου καὶ ὁ θεός μου ("the Lord of me and the God of me"). Both titles are governed by the singular verbs "answered" (ἀπεκρίθη) and "said to Him" (εἶπεν αὐτῷ). The direct address is singular and directed solely to Jesus, as the pronoun αὐτῷ ("to Him") refers explicitly to Jesus. The use of ὁ ("the") before both κύριός ("Lord") and θεός ("God") does not imply two separate persons. In Greek grammar, this construction often serves to reinforce the singularity of the subject. A similar construction is found in passages like Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1, where Jesus is described as both "God" and "Savior." The narrative explicitly states that Thomas "answered Him" (i.e., Jesus) and not the Father. The context revolves around Thomas's recognition of the resurrected Christ and his confession of Jesus’s identity, not a theological statement about the Father.
2. The Claim: Thomas Was Acknowledging the Father Abiding in Jesus
Thomas’s words are a personal response to Jesus’s invitation to touch His wounds and believe (John 20:27). There is no textual indication that Thomas was addressing the Father indirectly through Jesus. Jesus does not redirect Thomas’s declaration to the Father but accepts it, affirming Thomas’s belief (John 20:29). Jesus’s statements in John 14:9-11 emphasize His unique relationship with the Father: "I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me." This underscores His deity, as only someone sharing the divine essence can perfectly reveal the Father (Hebrews 1:3). While Jesus acted in obedience to the Father (John 5:19), this does not negate His deity. Instead, it demonstrates the harmonious operation of the Trinity, where the Son reveals the Father and carries out His will.
3. The Claim: The Context Is About Seeing and Believing, Not About Jesus’s Deity
The resurrection is central to Jesus’s identity as the Son of God and Lord. Paul explicitly ties Jesus’s resurrection to His divine status: "Declared to be the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead" (Romans 1:4). Thomas’s declaration goes beyond mere belief in the resurrection; it acknowledges the resurrected Jesus as "God." John’s Gospel begins by declaring Jesus as God (John 1:1) and concludes with Thomas’s confession. This narrative arc emphasizes Jesus’s deity as a core theme of the Gospel. John 20:31 reaffirms this: the purpose of the Gospel is that readers may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and through Him have eternal life. Jesus blesses those who believe without seeing, affirming Thomas’s declaration as a model of faith (John 20:29). He does not correct Thomas for misunderstanding or misapplying divine titles.
4. The Claim: The Greek Construction Implies Two Persons
Repetition of the definite article and possessive pronoun is a normal Greek construction to emphasize both terms equally, not to separate them. For example, similar constructions in Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1 clearly refer to a single subject. The combination of "Lord" and "God" is used elsewhere in Scripture to describe a single person. For example, Psalm 35:23 (LXX) uses similar language, and in the New Testament, the combination often refers to Jesus (e.g., Romans 10:9-13). The narrative and grammar focus exclusively on Jesus as the recipient of Thomas’s words. The attempt to split the phrase into two separate addresses (one to Jesus, one to the Father) is speculative and unsupported by the text.
5. The Claim: Trinitarian Interpretation Is Blind Tradition
The deity of Christ is not a later imposition but a consistent theme throughout the New Testament, affirmed by passages like John 1:1, Colossians 1:15-20, and Hebrews 1:3-12. The confession of Jesus as "Lord" and "God" aligns with Old Testament descriptions of Yahweh, applied to Jesus in the New Testament (e.g., Philippians 2:9-11). Far from contradicting John’s Gospel, the interpretation of John 20:28 as affirming Jesus’s deity is consistent with John’s emphasis on Jesus’s unique relationship with the Father and His divine nature (John 1:1, 10:30, 17:5). Trinitarian theology is derived from the biblical text and has been affirmed by centuries of careful exegesis. The claim that it blinds interpreters is ironic, given the speculative and unsubstantiated arguments presented in the video.
Conclusion
The objections raised in the video fail to provide a convincing alternative interpretation of John 20:28. Thomas’s declaration, "My Lord and my God," is a clear and unambiguous affirmation of Jesus’s deity. The grammatical, contextual, and theological evidence overwhelmingly supports the Trinitarian understanding of this passage. Attempts to reinterpret the text to diminish Jesus’s divine status are not only speculative but also inconsistent with the overall message of John’s Gospel and the New Testament.
Excellent study thank you very much
Thomas said literally "the Lord of me and the God of me" . it is an incomplete sentence. which is why the new advent bible adds 'thou art" to Thomas statement because they assume that is the unstated subject and verb.
but they are wrong, because they are reading their doctrine and not the context of JOhn 20 into the verse. whatever Thomas unstated portion was is not clear. it's ambiguous, but it has to be something like 'I believe the lord of me and the God of me."
john 2028 Thomas answered, Thou art my Lord and my God
but their are other possibilities, the verse is too ambiguous for anyone to say for certain 100 percent that they know what Thomas meant when he said "the lord of me and the god of me."
God simply resurrected his own flesh.
Thomas sees Jesus and the power of God, God is still one God. One must ask who did Jesus serve? How did Jesus conquer his death? who did he conquer in Heaven? God did it in a Son, not a god man or any other idolatry of man.
25:00 he can say that. Because he is talking to Jesus. He is telling Jesus he is The Lord of Me and The God of Me. Because this statement is directed at Jesus. There is no problem clarifying every word by saying “of me”. He is just making it clear he is both of him because he is talking to Jesus.
Also, how could he be the first and last? Revelation
“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.”
Revelation 22:13 NIV
And how could he own angles if he’s not God?
““I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.””
Revelation 22:16 NIV
"he can say that. Because he is talking to Jesus. He is telling Jesus he is The Lord of Me and The God of Me. Because this statement is directed at Jesus. There is no problem clarifying every word by saying “of me”. He is just making it clear he is both of him because he is talking to Jesus. "
Thomas directed his words to JESUS because to see Jesus is to see the Father.
@@TheTrinityDelusion So if anyone called Jesus God would you just use the excuse seeing Jesus is seeing the father?
Verse 10 of chapter 14 claims he is in the father. Because he is 1 in divine being with the father, so it makes sense seeing Jesus is seeing the father because seeing the person Jesus is seeing the one who is the same divine being with the father.
“But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.””
John 10:38
So believe the works. So it may make you understand the father is in Jesus. And Jesus is in the father. As a result of the works you have to understand and know Jesus and the father are one. If they are one that means seeing Jesus is seeing the father. That’s why Jesus responds to asking how do we see the father with you see me. Seeing Jesus is seeing God.
However back to what you originally responded with. Thomas directed his words to Jesus. But Jesus isn’t the Father. Seeing Jesus is seeing God (the Father) but that doesn’t make Jesus the Father. So if you say Jesus is Lord and God you aren’t saying The Father is Lord and God. Because although seeing Jesus is seeing the Father he isn’t the father. So saying Jesus is my God is saying Jesus is literally my God. The statements were directed at Jesus not the Father.
Along with all of this, why didn’t Thomas just say My Lord Jesus and My God the Father? Why didn’t he separate his wording? Because if he were referring to Jesus as God he could do it in the exact same way to mean he is God. So he should have been more clear in his wording that Jesus isn’t his God.
"Verse 10 of chapter 14 claims he is in the father. Because he is 1 in divine being with the father"
He said no such thing. You telling lies about Jesus. Jesus explained how they had seen the Father in the very next breath. So why are you telling lies about what he said?
@@TheTrinityDelusion “Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.”
John 14:10-11 NIV
I’m confused. Jesus says believe him when he tells you that he is in the father and the father is in him based on the evidence how does that not mean what it says? They are one in being. This is the next few verses after 14:9 where he says anyone who has seen the father has seen him so he is explaining how seeing the father is seeing Jesus. 10 and 11 is the explanation and apart of his speech there to answer Philip’s question on how can we see the father.
@@zraapx9425 "I’m confused. Jesus says believe him when he tells you that he is in the father and the father is in him based on the evidence how does that not mean what it says? They are one in being.
The Father is in believers and believers are in the Father. They aren't "God" are they? And Jesus never said anything about being "one being." The disciples saw the Father at work in the man Jesus. That is what he is explaining. The Father spoke through the man Jesus and the Father did his works through the man Jesus. The Gospel of John explains this all.
"I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word that they may all be one JUST AS You, Father, in me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent me. The glory which You have given me I have given to them, that they may be one, JUST AS WE ARE ON, I in them and You in me, that they may be perfected into one." John 17
How can you be separate from your word? Rather, I’ll talk to you in person or over the phone that don’t change the fact that it’s still you.
Yes, John 14:26 says it all....but many come in His name...and they lord [ their ] understanding of Scripture over everyone that they meet.....We must all heed the warnings in 2 JOHN....and shun those who preach the False Gospel...that Jesus must literally BE God ...for us to be saved. The only people that will really see this deception are those who have eyes to see and ears to hear....either close to entering the kingdom...or already born again.
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Anyone know of some resource that has all of the official beliefs of the Trinitarians. It is very hard to combat the idea if it is always changing.....
Randall Bernard If you want to understand the "orthodox" version of the Trinity, start with the Athanasian Creed. But Trinitarians depart from their "orthodoxy" when in a corner, of course.
God is YWHW
Jesus is YWHW
Holy Spirit is YWHW
The Father is not the Son and not the Holy Spirit
That is what we beleive. They share the divine nature but have their own will, desire, voice, and roles
Love your videos. Another thing people need to understand, is that it's fine to pick up an English Bible and just start reading. That's how Jesus saved me. BUT if people are ever going to grow and actually get to know God better, they must get into the original languages and context and history behind the Bible. Elohym is a deep word. Father Yehvah's name isn't just Elohym. Yes, Yeshua is Elohym as well because he was begotten by Yehvah as a man, and was always his word. That is how his coming forth is from everlasting. We must realize that Yeshua was a Jew and read the Bible with a Hebrew mindset.
We get to know God by His Spirit dwelling in us.
It is very simple to understand what Thomas suddenly has realized (2 Things) in that Second he spoke these Words in Verse 28.
1. Jesus was alive and not dead : to this refers the first Half of his Saying "my Lord" ("seeing" his Lord was alive with Marks)
2. Thomas had to acknowledge now that God the Father has raised Jesus from the Dead :
to this refers the Second Half "my God" (now believing in his Resurrection which was done by the Most High himself).
Finally both Statements are separated by an "and" which refers to 2 Beings (The Resurrected One and the all powerful Resurrector)
There is nothing complicated about this Verse.
This Verse is crucial for our Understanding what Christ was telling about true Believers. Only if we first believe that God raised his Son from the dead we may be saved by his Grace.
--- > Romans 10:9-10 is the Deal
In Case of Thomas first came his "seeing" and then after that his "believing" in Resurrection. That was the Attitude of most People at that Time. They wanted to see Signs and Wanders in order to believe. Their Faith was build on Seeing. Not so with us.
In our Case in this Century we must first believe in what Jesus tought in order to be rewarded with seeing (by our own Resurrection). This is the very Meaning of the following Verse 29. Thomas was able to correct his View, we cannot because without Faith (Obedience) we will only face our own Destruction.
First born
First resurrection and acsention
Spirit of God
Trinitarians believe and worship 'God Jesus'. For them Jn 1:1 the Word is not 'the Word of God' but God the Son (i.e. Jesus). They read Jn 20:28 as 'the Lord and God of me' (my Lord and God), not 'my Master! - and my Elohim, your Father'. They don't want read any other way.
Again is there any Man that existed an said -i have come in the flesh. if any man said that he would be certified as a nut or crazy. Yet scripture by none other than the Apostle JOHN .states that Jesus has come in the FLESH. became a Man. so what or who was JESUS before he came? of course he was GOD which makes all the sense to any sensible person!!
False. He denied being God, saying the Father was the only true God John 17:3. He repeatedly called the Father his God. He said the Father was greater than he was, and said the one sent is not greater than the sender. He doen't know the end of by his own words in the Gospels, and then again in Rev 14 an angel comes out from God & the heavenly sanctuary, and commands the Messiah to thrust in his scythe because the harvest has begon. He prayed to God that let God's will be done, not his own will. As a youth he continued to grow in wisdom and knowledge and in God's favour and men's favor; He doesn't know the time of the end in the Gospels, and doesn't find out until just before the harvest. He in fact receives a command from an angel, coming out from God in the heavenly sanctuary. An angel commands and informs him after he has risen into heaven. God is not a man or a son of man, Num 23:19, and therefore can't sin or lie. God is immortal. The Messiah died. In order for the Messiah to have been God, and mortal and capable of dieing, means he changed, yet Malachai assures us he cannot change. Besides, how does that answer Satan's challenge that God's laws are too hard for us. (We are told they aren't a burden.) yet Trinitarians have God go through the charade of being tempted when that isn't possible. Satan wouldn't be so foolish to offer earthly rulership to the creator of this universe, and perhaps an infinite number of other ones. Why does the messiah give up the millenial kingdom to God after the thousand years are ended.... &c &c &c. the list goes on and on. Mystery religion and mystery doctrines are the way of Babylon the Great. The mark of the beast is in the thoughts and actions of people, figuratively, IN their head and. "Come on out of her my children" God says. The Messiah told the Sammaritan woman that the Jews know who they worship, but the very similar Samaritans don't. For thousands of years they have worshipped God as revealed to them (& us) in the bible written in their own language, yet Trinitarians think they know better. Why does Jeremiah say when the time of the Gentiles is ended, that ten gentiles will grab a Jews garment, and plead he inform them of the truth. Why, because they inherited lies and myths. The list goes on & on. Why do trinitarians climg to an illogical mystery doctrine that contradicts scriptures. Is it because they are modern gnostics, who follow a 'revelation' at odds with scripture, because it tickles them to think God died for them. That's Satan's desire... for God to die.
Jesus, the man, is the temple of GOD where the spirit of GOD resides. Do we not recall the words of Apostle Paul ( who understood it fully ) when he said, "Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; ( 1 Cor 6:19 ) Many times God spoke through his angels so why couldn't he speak through a man? ......He did~ .. I enjoyed your video ~
right on--t.Zelenka
in Titus 2:13 Jesus is the Savior, not God: "...and the savior Jesus Christ"
since Greek koine of the new testament had no commas or points Titus 2:13 is not a proof of anything.
In Romans 9:5 you must better ask how to punctuate (and interpret) this verse?
hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/14262/does-romans-95-assert-the-deity-of-christ
If Jesus is also God then you are a polytheist.
Or Jesus is not God but the Mashiach of God.
1 Corinthians 15:
24 Then the end will come when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority, and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
JESUS WILL BE SUBJECTED TO YHWH ! ! !
But don't you want to die for Israel so we can build a third temple?
Problem with your explanation:
It seems like you are so focused on trying to separate the very word of Thomas, so you can justify that Jesus was not being referred here as a God, and with that your own point of view will be given justification.
On your John 14:20 - "After a little while the world will no longer see Me, but you will see Me; because I live, you will live also. "In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.
Here Jesus is explaining about the eternal life and not just the reincarnation which will be given to those who believed, As Jesus lived as a proof of the promised eternal life as his very body is the very first example of it, The reason why he said, because I lived, you will live also. Now Jesus says definitely the very time that this will occur. "In that day" This is the day when they the Apostles will received that eternal life and they too will live. The question is, did that day come already?
To your explanation it seems like you are referring to Jesus reincarnation, and he showed up to his Apostles and also with Thomas and it seems like you are telling us that this is that day Jesus was referring to in the scripture of John's 14:20 but the problem here is the Apostles haven't received the eternal life yet, Jesus definitely said that they too will live which mean they will all die but will received the eternal life just as what Jesus have said, and when that happened is what Jesus is referring to as that very day, that they will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you. Which means your explanation does not make sense according to the context of the verse. So during Jesus reincarnation is not the day that they will know that he is with the Father, But will happened in a latter time when they all received they're eternal life.
I agree with your explanation, that Jesus was the express image, I agree with you when you say that they are two different person in Jesus, and these are all been taught by Jesus to all the Apostles. There is no problem with the belief of the Apostles when comes with the Father But is Thomas was talking about his disbelief with the God the Father or with Jesus Christ being alive? seeing is believing, but who was the one Thomas wants to see, is it the Father or is it Jesus Christ body? Thomas already believed with God the Father, So if he had listen to Jesus and have that belief with God the Father, Why would Thomas give a doubting reaction?
If Thomas is referring to Jesus Christ and his Father in him, Then there is no reason for Thomas to doubt Jesus Christ anymore, since he believe in the Power of God the Father, But why is he still in doubt? These only shows , that the disbelief of Thomas is not with God the Father but in Jesus Christ, Which means the very focused of Thomas doubt is only to Jesus Christ alone, the reason why he want to see his very body and would like to see and feel his very wound. This is not about God the Father, his very disbelief is with Jesus being alive.
Seeing the very proof, Thomas would then made a declaration to the very person whom he doubted and not to God the Father which is not the source of his doubt. So he should say these to the very person whom he doubted: MY LORD AND MY GOD
IT WAS JESUS WHOM THOMAS REFERRED TO AS HIS LORD AND HIS GOD,
SORRY I KNOW YOU REALLY DO NOT WANT JESUS TO BE A GOD BUT NOT WITH THESE VERSE. YOU HAVE TO SHOW ME THOMAS DOUBTED GOD THE FATHER TOO, SO HE COULD REFER TO BOTH OF THEM JUST AS WHAT YOU WANT TO PRESENT HERE IN THESE VIDEO.
Wisdom You aren't making any sense. Read what it says. Thomas was doubting Jesus' RESURRECTION.
TheTrinityDelusion You just prove my point, Thomas is doubting Jesus being alive and has nothing to do with God the Father so why would you say that Thomas was saying my God as referring to the Father. It was Jesus he was doubting about, so it should be Jesus he should say sorry to and the best way to tell Jesus that he now believe in him of being alive is by saying to him : MY LORD AND MY GOD
I REST MY CASE !
Wisdom Jesus had been teaching Thomas that the Father was in him and he was in the Father. In fact, he said that "in that day you will know I am in my Father." Thomas knew
The Spirit gives life. Maybe you need to read John 20:22 again.
You babble.
1 John 4: 1-3 is the strongest verse to throw out the trinity doctrine.
God bless.
Great shell game obfuscation!
"It's about the context...the context is about 'seeing and believing'"
Do you even understand what the word "context" means?
In context, what is the listener/ reader supposed to be "seeing and believing"?
To answer that question, let's dismantle another attempt at misdirection:
"Trinitarian academia misses the point of John's Gospel"
What was the point of John's gospel? Jesus Christ. John's perspective was theological and focused on Jesus' divine nature and his relationship with the Father.
The context of John 20:28 is the entire Gospel of John, and most specifically chapter 20 itself. The object of Thomas' disbelief wasn't "seeing and belief", the object was Jesus himself, to whom Thomas declared "my Lord and my God", when his lack of disbelief was met by the very real glorified body of Jesus.
Divine nature does not mean he is God. God is not a divine substance, he is a singular entity. In fact, your claim disproves your own creed, if you want to base Jesus' deity solely based on his 'divine nature' then you are in fact going to attribute all of the risen chosen ones with the same title of God. Your comment has absolutely nothing to show.
mcsc177 That comment is incoherent nonsense. God is of a particular nature or substance= divine, and that does not conflict with being a "singular entity". The scriptures use "Godhead" (divinity) three times in the New Testament for God/ that which pertains to God. The bible even uses the concept to rule out that which is NOT God/ Divine- Gal 4:8 "...to beings that by nature are no gods." Therefore God is unique, unlike other spirits or humans. This can be proved in the fact that God alone is uncreated.
Those who share in the divine resurrection are those who have received the gift of eternal life, and have responded by putting their old (sinful) natures to death and have lived for Christ; through whom we share in the divine nature and life. We have life, natural and eternal, because of the Creator. We do not have eternal life through our own doing.
***** The context is about Thomas seeing and believing. That should be obvious since that is what is being discussed immediately before John 20:28 and that is what is discussed immediately after.
TheTrinityDelusion What should be obvious is that the apostle Thomas looked at the glorified and resurrected Christ and called Him his "Lord" and his "God".
***** You know how people say "Oh my God!" or "Oh my Lord!" when they get excited? Well Thomas said both of them at once because he was really shocked. He isn't calling Jesus "God," and I know this because only what (3?) verses later John finished "These things are written that you might believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God..." That we may believe that Jesus is the Christ(?) the Son(?) of God(?) not that we may believe that Jesus IS CAPITAL IS GOD HIMSELF THE SECOND PERSON OF A TRINITY????? Well that's what John wrote. So obviously John didn't understand Thomas' excited ejaculation as definitive proof that Jesus is God, or else why is John writing "these things" only to help us believe that "Jesus is the Christ, the SON of God"???? This is also what is wrong with binding the Trinity as essential for salvation: the confession that Jesus made the rock on which he built the church was Peter's confession "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God," same as what John said there (right?) and the same as in Acts 8:37 "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." So Jesus himself, Peter, John, the evangelist Philip who was expressly sent by the Holy Spirit according to Acts 8...they all make a confession that Jesus "is the Christ, the Son of God," a confession that Trinitarians never miss a beat in telling us "is not good enough," a confession that quite frankly even a Socinian can make, a Socinian like myself even! How can that be, if the Trinity is true?
So when we are one with the Jesus and in Jesus we are now Jesus?
Thank you for the explanation to this verse, however I have another question for you in regards to our salvation.. I have several friends and family members who believe in the Trinity, do you think they have to come to a complete understanding of this doctrine in order for them to be saved? Thank you in advance
The point of this channel is that the Trinity is false. In light of this, I can''t make any sense of your question.
I agree that the trinity is false but my question is do you believe that Yahweh and his Messiah will judge us for not coming to the TRUTH of this doctrine?
I guess what I'm trying to say is are all trinitarians condemned?
I don't believe so.
So aren't trinitarians creating "another Jesus"? 2Cor.11:4 and aren't Trinitarians also breaking the first Commandment? If we break the Commandments will we lose our salvation?
I am a man,I am a father, I am a son, I am an electrician, does that make me two or three persons? I didn’t think so. Jesus is the Father and the Son, both spirit and flesh, not two, just One,One,One not two.
Sorry but Jesus is not his own father.
@TheTrinityDelusion
But he is the expression and visible image of his father. That why to know jesus and see jesus is to know and see the father
The *_Trinitarians_* and *_Pharisees_* are not "of God," because they are "of Ego." To be "of God," you need to be more like God:
* *_Unconditionally Loving,_*
* *_Perfectly Responsible,_*
* *_Utterly Humble,_* and
* *_Fearlessly Confidence._*
But even here, the aim must be done with care. We should not be confident in our own knowledge and not humble to our own needs, but confident in God, humble to Him and to the needs of others. When you achieve Zero Ego on all vectors of intention, then you will be standing at the *_Narrow Gate_* which leads back Home.
😎♥✝🇺🇸💯
If no one has seen YHWH, then with whom did Abraham eat? Whom did Moses see face to face? Who revealed Himself on Mount Sinai when the covenant was made, with Moses, the seventy elders, and others? Exodus 24:10 states, 'And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.' When Samson's father feared he would die because, as he said, he had seen YHWH, did he see Him or not? With whom did Jacob wrestle? Did 'the Son' manifest Himself everywhere there, or that YHWH Himself did? Also, why did YHWH Himself appear but did not reveal His Glory and covered Moses' eyes when YHWH (His Glory) passed before Moses? Exodus 33:18-23 and 34:5-8. Were there two forms of YHWH there? Two manifestations? One shielding Moses, and the other declaring Glory? I am curious about your thoughts.
Scholars of academia state the phrase "My Lord and My God" was a common phrase that developed around 81 - 96 CE. The phrase "My Lord and My God" was initially used to address the Roman Emperor Domitian. Which is dominus et deus noster "our Lord and God" or an individual saying this to the emperor would say dominus meus et meus "My Lord and My God."
Interesting fact the Book of John was written between 90 - 100 CE just around the time frame the phrase was being used.
Basically the author of John is subverting respect from the Emperor to Jesus and portraying Jesus as more divine than the Emperor. Sadly Trinitarians misconstrude the passage and ignore John 20:17 when Jesus states he has a God
Source
Collin, A.Y. and Collins J.J. King and Messiah as Son of God: Divine, Human, and Angelic Messianic Figures in Biblical and Related Literature. William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company. 2008.
Thomas here is referring to Jesus whom he saw, and that Thomas has already seen the Father, not literally, because God is spirit. The presenter is right in his understanding of the context of epistle of John. The trinitarian thought they have solid understanding of this verse without understanding the context. The problem with Trinitarian, they just read one verse and start jumping with joy that they have a strong evidence of trinity. The wisdom of understanding is not for everybody, and it should have the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
My master recognized jesus as the messiah and my god which thomas recognized jesus father almighty God YHWH
John 20: 31
But these have been written so that you believe that jesus is the messiah, the son of YHWH
Jesus and the Father are the same person. They are one.
There's no reason to suppose they are the same person. Jesus prayed for his disciples to be one. He wasn't praying for them to be one person.
@@TheTrinityDelusion God manifest himself in Jesus christ. He put his spirit in Christ. Jesus is God come down out of heaven while still being in heaven. God was in Jesus reconciling the world to himself. Literally.
John 6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
1 Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Revelation 1:8
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
They are one of the same person. They are won Lord. He manifests himself in his son christ Jesus just like he did with moses in the buring bush.
Daniel 7:9-14 (Do you recognize the oneness?)
9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
@@TheTrinityDelusion These are just the fundamentals. Excuse the essay.
@@tez817 So the Father gave Jesus the son all authority. So that makes the Father and son the same person HOW?
@@TheTrinityDelusion They are one in the same flesh
Brother kell, i think thats your name. Sorry if im incorrect. Great video and great information i agree with. My question is did Thomas doubt Jesus was the messiah or he did doubt he was resurrected? I think he kind of doubted he was the messiah because if he believed Jesus was the messiah then he would not have doubted his resurrection. What are your thoughts on this?
JC Lopez It specifically says Thomas doubted he was resurrected. John 20:28 is not about Thomas doubting who he was, but that he doubted Jesus rose again. You might want to say that doubting his resurrection would also mean he doubted Jesus was the Christ (because he was dead) but that would be an implication to the passage and not what it's mainly about. - Brother Kel
TheTrinityDelusion thx
Romans 9:5 Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are their ancestors, and CHRIST HIMSELF was an Israelite as far as HIS HUMAN NATURE is concerned. AND HE IS GOD, THE ONE who rules over everything and is worthy of eternal praise! Amen.
I'm afraid not. ua-cam.com/video/INhvX5fOLH0/v-deo.html
excellent--how are you?
when the video is 40 min long, you know this is gonna be a stretch. Didn't bother watching, you can re-interpret ANYTHING to mean something else. It is not the book that we understand Jesus is God, it is the Holy Spirit who gives us the understanding of who Jesus is. You would believe Jesus is God only if it is written on some paper? It is already written clearly, and you are still blinded. Go become a muslim, since ur saying the Holy Spirit failed to give us understanding until the mid 16th century when unitarianism began.
Unitarianism began when Moses gave us the Shema centuries BC not 16th century. Pathetic
I like to use confirmation verses from the same writer. John 14:7,14:9,14:28,15:24, confirm what 20:28 is saying while still establishing separation. All throughout John are examples contrary to the Trinity Lie.
14:7 Jesus is saying he is equal to the father. So how does his prove Jesus is not God?
@@scotthix2926 Scott hix, why do you say Jesus is making himself equal with the Father? the bible nowhere teaches this and phil2:6 denies it!!! how can you ask such a question after listening to this teaching? And there are plenty more proofs, just go through a few vids on this channel, and there is heaps more similar channels, and if all else fails read your own bible without your denomination glasses on, and pray for guidance while you read. You according to bible, if you are a christian that is, are "in Christ" and Christ is "in you" so, does that make you equal in every respect to Jesus? So according to your argument, and Jesus is "in the Father," then christians are all co equal with God..?? Is that what you claim??? That is what your statement implies is it not?
@@ken440 phil 2:6 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Philippians 2:5-8
Read the verse again. The subject here is talking of Jesus having humility. Here Jesus by personal choice, chooses to become a creature, a man. Read the context of the verse. A creature cannot choose to become a creature, it is a creature, that is not humility. Humility requires that a person to have the ability to be able to do something and choosing not to for a greater purpose.
Analogy Walking across a street. Setup - I am at an intersection with a person who cannot walk and we need to get across. There are 3 scenarios.
I can simply walk across and leave the other person there - Jesus does not come to earth and remains God (verse "in the form of God") no humility
I can stop and get the person across with me - Jesus becomes man and comes to earth (notice he is still God). The only true example of humility.
I cannot get across and fhe other person cannot either - Jesus is a creature just like me ( no humility)
So phil 2:6 so Jesus has to be God.
@@scotthix2926 If Jesus did NOT grasp at being equal to the Father, (as it says in the scripture you quote) then why do you say he does??
Phil2:6 certainly points this out, he didnt GRASP AT EQUALITY WITH GOD but that Jesus instead went obediently to the cross, to be the sacrificial lamb of God. At Passover the lamb is not equal to the head of the house, nor is the lamb God, yet its blood saves all who were in the house that night. Its the father of the house who saves his family by sacrificing his best lamb, one of the flock. So Jesus is that lamb (shown by Abraham being willing to sacrifice his son) and in those cases the lamb wasnt the head of house and Issac wasnt Abraham, so why do you tangle up scripture to make Jesus equal with his father?
@@ken440 I did not say he grashs (aka longing for) at being God. I said he is God. God can become a man, a lower life form, aka humility. A man cannot become god, (we try to but that is pride). Taking orders by itself is not humility. Taking orders with the ability to say no is. A creature cannot say no to God. God will not be mocked. This is what phil 2:6 is about. See the verse - "in the form of God" Becuase he is God, he can say yes or no to God the Father. see verse "to be grasps" (a thing to hold onto). Which takes us back to the point of the passage, humility. God becoming man.
The Bible says he was fully God and fully man. Someone showed me
No it doesn't.
I have never seen this in 30 plus years a bible reader. So I agree with Kel... show me where?
john 4/24 god a spirit THE FATHER NOT A PERSON HE A SPIRIT . manifest IN the flesh and that his son 1 tim 3/16 god in the flesh
Who cam in the flesh and who sent him?
John 3:17 KJV
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
So scripture tells us God sent his son, not that God sent himself.
John 3:34 KJV
For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him .
Again scripture states God sent his own son.
John 10:36 KJV
Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? As shared in previous scripture God (Father) sent the Son this is a great clarification that the father is God, the only God. And Jesus clarifies also he is his son and not God himself.
John 17:3 KJV
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
To receive eternal life in heaven we must know two separate beings the only true God which was clarified in previous scripture he is the father. And we must know his son Jesus Christ.
Trinity doctrine twists and denies what they scriptures mean they try to flatters those who are spiritually weak with there philosophy.
Galatians 4:4 KJV
But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Do not be deceived by vain philosophy read the bible which a child like spirit let God truly lead you and not man made doctrine and traditions.
no mention of the grammar rule nominative of exclamation. In other words john 20.28 could be translated as "O my Lord and O my God!"
God bless you. I want to point out somethings about your arguments. If you want to comment back, please answer my refutation and then ask your questions.
The first thing you argue about is that the context of John 20 is about "seeing and believing".I could agree with that in a sense. If what you mean by saying that the context is about "seeing and believing" is that the context is primarily about the resurrection of Jesus, and Thomas saw the resurrected Jesus and therefore "saw" him and "believed in" Him, then I would agree. But if what you mean by saying that the context is about "seeing and believing", is that this same "seeing and believing" of John 20, is the same one wich Jesus talked about in John 14, then I would not agree because the context is completely different. In John 20, the context is about the resurrection of Jesus, as we read in v.1-10, that he was not in the tomb, then he showed up to Mary in v.11-18, then appeared to all the disciples in v.19-23, and then to Thomas in v. 26-29. In John 14 we have Jesus telling the disciples where he is going (v.1-4), and then we have the reply of Thomas and Jesus telling him that He is the way to the Father, and that if you know Him, you'll know the Father (v.5-7). And then in v.8 we see that Phillip told Jesus to show (δεικνύμι) them the Father, but Jesus replied in v. 9 saying that the one who has seen him, has seen the Father. So when Jesus tells Phillip that if you see him you'll see the Father, Jesus is answering the reply of Philip about "showing" the Father, with "seeing" (οράω) him, and therefore seeing the Father by seeing Jesus. The reason why Jesus says that Phillip will "see" the Father through seeing Jesus, is that he is answering Philip's reply of "showing" the Father. And this is also proven by the fact that Jesus replied in v.9 with the same word Phillip used: "how do you say: show (δεικνύμι) me the Father?" Therefore, the word "οράω" that means "to see", here it means "understand" or "discern". And it can mean that acording to strong 3708. Don't get me wrong, I'm not denying that Phillip literally saw Jesus, cause it is obvious that he did. He saw Jesus with his own eyes, but with regards to the Father, he didn't literally saw the Father, rather "understood" him, or "experienced" him, because Jesus is the expresion of the Father, his logos, his word, etc. And I would agree that to see Jesus is to se two persons, but in the sense that I have already explained: Phillip truly saw Jesus, but understood the Father. So this is how Thomas, Phillip and the other apostles (including Judas in v.22) saw Jesus and the Father in John 14. In John 14, the context isn't seeing and believing but the relationship of Jesus and the Father, cause He is way to the Father, the Father abides in him, the Father does the works, etc. In John 20, it could be (not that it is) "seeing and believing", but only and primarily in the context of the resurrection of Jesus, and that the apostles saw, and believed in Him.The context is different, we can't say that both texts are about"Seeing and believing" in the same sense.
I will comment more things in a moment. Please, wait until I finish.
You say that when Jesus said that He will come, He was referring to his resurrection. I don't think so. The whole context of John 14:15-31 is about those who obey the commands of God, and about the coming of the Holy Spirit (in pentecost). And, especially, v.16-17, right before v.18 when Jesus says "I will come", talk about the coming of the Holy Spirit. And then in v. 18 we find something interesting. That is, Jesus literally said: "I come to you", in present tense (maybe you already know this). Jesus used the word "έρχομαι" (to come) in present tense, but it is often translated "I will come". So what does this mean if in the antecedent verse He is talking about the coming of the Holy Spirit and now He says "I come to you"? Well that through the coming of the Holy Spirit, Christ is really present with us. This is because the context is about the coming of the Holy Spirit, Jesus says that the Spirit remains or "dwells" in them (using the verb "μένω" in present, and we also see in Romans 8:9 that the the Holy Spirit is Spirit of Christ, and He has to dwell in us, so that we can be if God) and that the Spirit will be with them (using ειμί in future tense), and also because of the present tense of the verb "έρχομαι" (to come). If yoy want to say that Jesus is talking about his resurrection, provide contextual reasons for that.
I haven't finished yet. Please wait a little more.
You sometimes say that Jesus told to all the disciples that in that day they would know that the Father was in Jesus, but sometimes you say it as if Jesus only told that to Thomas. And it seems to me, that somehow it helps you to argue that: "Jesus told Thomas he would know(chp. 14), and in that day (chp. 20) he knew, therefore this and that.." I think we both know that in v.20 Jesus said: "in that day you (υμείς, ειμι in plural 2 person form) will know". He was refering to all the disciples. He also said γινώσκω (know) in the plural form γνώσεσθε. I would like you to clarify that point, that is, was Jesus refering to all the disciples or only to Thomas? I'm not done yet.
About the greek word construction, that you say that it is emphatic (wich I do believe) and that it is emphatically referring to two persons, I would simply ask for you to provide scholarly evidence that this word construction of the phrase "ο κύριος μου και ο Θεός μου" is always, amd every time, a reference to two persons (you can mention the Granville Sharp rule if you want). Because already having demonstrated what the context of John 14 is, and the context of John 20, it would be more likely to interpret the "είπεν αυτώ" as directly to Jesus (and only to Jesus) cause there are no contextual nor exegetical reasons to say, that the word "God" is refering to the Father since v24-28 are about seeing the resurrected Jesus. Let me prove that:
In other videos, you provide John 20:17 and 31 as your contextual proves that Thomas was refering to two persons. In v.17, of course Jesus is refering to one person. No one would deny that. The construction is: τον πατέρα μου, και πατέρα υμών (my Father and your Father) τον Θεόν μου, και Θεόν υμών (my God and your God) I think that Jesus was truly emphasizing that his Father and his God, was the same as Mary's God and Father. I would ask you to tell me about any Trinitarian who denies that. And in v. 31, we also believe that Christ is the Son of God, and that John's purpose in writing was for us to know that. But acording to John 5:18, Jesus being the Son of God, is to be equal with God, and that is what the jews themselves understood (as you yourself say, John expects us to have an understanding of what Jesus taught by the end of the gospel, so we must know what Son of God actually means in John 20:31). And why did the jews understood it this way? Because Jesus heald a man in the Sabbath (v.1-9). When the jews were trying to kill him (v.16) they were doing this because he was doing this things in the Sabbath. And then Jesus gives the reason of why He could work on Sabbath: His Father was working at that very time, and so He could work as well (v.17). So the jews understood this how they did. The Son is equal with God (v.18) because He can work in the Sabbath as his Father did. In v.19-23 what we read is the relationship of the Father and the Son. We see the perfect harmony in the role of the Son and the Father, and how Jesus does everything that the Father does, not by himself (v.19) but by the the authority that has been given to him (v.26-27). So I really don't think there is contextual reason to say that "God" in John 20:28 is refering to the Father. And even more, we now that Thomas was unbelieving by v.27. But, Thomas was doubting, or unbelieving, if Jesus had resurrected or not (v.25). He was not doubting about the Father cause he was obviously still believing in God. And when Thomas saw Jesus, he beleived IN Jesus.(v.29). So Thomas' confession was a belief in Jesus. When Thomas confessed "my Lord and my God", he was confessing his belief in Jesus as we see in v.29, since he only doubted about the resurrection of Jesus, and not about the Father. So this is why Thomas' confession can't refer to Jesus and the Father. Are we going to say that Thomas was even doubting about the existence of God? Sure not. And you said in another video(John 20:28 and the blind guides): "Thomas isn't making this statement concerning who he thought Jesus was" and therefore he is not refering to Jesus as "Lord and God". Well, let's just say this: if someone tells you that he is God and Lord, and that he is going to die and raise in the third day, but it turns out that he doesn't, will you believe he is God and Lord? Of course not. Now, if another guy tells you the same thing, and it turns out that he does raise in the third day, will you believe he is God and Lord? Of course you will. You'll believe everything that he told you, including that he was Lord and God. Jesus himself, and the apostles gave testimony that He was God in other places (not gonna get to them now), but Thomas didn't saw Jesus until Jesus himself showed up to him, and then he believed. This are the contextual reasons that I give to say that "είπεν αυτώ" refers only to Jesus. And I want to ask you about psalm 35:23 wich says the same phrase that Thomas used, but only for the Father. I know other people have ask you that already, but I haven't seen an answer from you yet. Is that psalm refering to the Father only or is there another person in view?
I really hope to get an answer. It took me a whole week to prepare this. I'll be praying for us to see God's thruth and to know him better.
*John 14* - _1"Don't let your heart be troubled. Believe in God. Believe _*_also_*_ in me..._ *_...7If you had known me, you would have known my Father also._*_ From now on, you know him, and have seen him." 8Philip said to him, _*_"Lord, show us the Father, and that will be enough for us."_*_ 9Jesus said to him, _*_"Have I been with you such a long time, and do you not know me, Philip?_*_ He who has seen me has seen the Father. How do you say, 'Show us the Father?'_
Throughout the entire discourse, Jesus speaks of both himself and His Father. People saw Jesus, though they could not see the Father. And so when Thomas asked to see the Father, Jesus reminded him that he really didn't know Him. Why? Because Jesus was living proof of the same God and Father who made the promise of salvation to Abraham.
Whatever the case, and I'm not saying that the seeing and believing is proportionate to Jesus and the Father, though Thomas' declaration most definitely fits the context of Jesus and the Father - SEE: _Believe in God. Believe _*_also_*_ in me_
Romans 9:5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, WHO IS over all, THE ETERNALLY BLESSED GOD. Amen.
How can God he blessed?
So John 14 tells us that if U ever see the invisible God U will stare right at Jesus Christ for he is the visible body (Son) that the invisible God (Jehova) was wearing so he could communicate with the world that he created.
No, that is not what it says. Is it? Jesus immediately explained to his disciples HOW they had seen the Father. Why won't you listen to him?
When is a trinitarian apologist going to comment on the Greek grammar of this verse to contradict your interpretation? This video has been out for more than a year and to date, no one has commented in contradiction of the Greek grammar... "the Lord of me and the God of me" - two persons in view
+Shane Walsh
What about James White, he´s a greek teacher and the founder of alpha and omega ministries. he debunks this claim
Football Skillz Thank you for your response, please send me a link or reference. I would like to read or hear it.
+Brian W thank you for your response Brian. So Thomas said My Lord and my God, in the Greek language/grammar, in a way that would refer to 2 persons?
Hi Brian, your explanation leaves me with words and an explanation that has no comprehensible meaning, i.e. words without meaning. Do you think that the Bible revelation was intended to leave us with an incomprehensible idea about "who" God is? Question: If the God of the Bible wanted us to know that He is absolutely "one person" (in the common sense of the word "person"), how, do you think, would He have had to say it, to convince the reader of that He was only "one person"?
Have a look at Matthew 16:23 Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! - Does this mean that Peter is ontologically "satan"?
Thank you Brian. However when you look at what is written, I suggest that you re-examine the English word "by". This word is mistranslated from the Greek words"en" and "dia" which should be rendered "in" and "through or because of" respectively. The creation is never said to be "ek" meaning source or origin or out from, with reference to Christ. God, the Father created this world alone, all by Himself. He did this by speaking it into existence.
After Thomise placed his fingers in the holes of Christ, he started worshipping God (not Jesus) by looking up to the heavens, saying, my Lord, and my God. This probably would have been the case because the scriptures do not say Thomas knelt down in front of Jesus saying to him, my Lord, and my God. The scriptures would have told us exactly what Thomised did.
Thomas was simply confessing exactly what Jesus had taught him, "He who has seen me has seen the Father." So according to Jesus, who did Thomas see?
I don’t think it’s wrong to call Jesus God even though the trinity is a lie as well as the “God born a man” idea.
like calling Joseph ruler/king of Egypt but Pharaoh was above him as the supreme king.
When God the Father raised Jesus and gave him all authority in heaven and earth, sitting him on his throne, Jesus became God over everything with only one greater than him.
God means the power or the mighty one. Jesus has been given all power so he is God over all. Is it wrong to call him this?
If John 20:28 is true, Luke 24 is a lie.
in luke 24, you got 11 apostles all present when Jesus shows up. that's 12- Judas. tommy included.
So who lied?
who was God talking to when he said let us make man and let us go down when they were building the tower
Angels, the sons of God. Job 1:6.
Most likely the assembly in heaven identified in the book of Job
figure of speech, have u ever said now let me see.Could be referring to multitude of Magisty also.
Jesus is Rev3vs14
These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God:
Read and Meditate Prov8 Rev1vs2 John3vs32-36 John17
According to John 20:28,29 that makes Jesus the father and the Son and and the Holy Ghost if God is the Holy Ghost. The only True God was in a human body reconciling the world unto himself, not to some other.
No you are mistaken. Jesus is not his own Father. The man Jesus manifested the Father. That is the central theme of the Gospel of John.
Tell me, am I mistaken? I don't believe in the Trinity, but I believe that Jesus is YHWH manifested in the flesh. So, in the flesh and blood named Jesus is YHWH Himself. We are bodies and blood; we have bodies, but within our bodies is our spirit, the human spirit. However, in Jesus the Messiah, it is YHWH Himself. In John 2:19-22, Jesus declares that He Himself will destroy the temple of His body and raise it up. So, what do you think? Who resurrected Jesus? The Father, or did He raise Himself? Personally, I believe that YHWH resurrected Him. :) Why do I think so? Because it's not 'the Father,' 'the Son,' or 'the Spirit' who is YHWH, but YHWH reveals Himself to us. YHWH reveals Himself to us as the Father; YHWH is the Father, the Son, the Spirit, the Savior, the Righteous One, the Judge, Love, Goodness, the Consuming Fire, the Beginning, and the End. As He said about Himself, 'I am who I am,' 'I am.' For this reason, I believe that YHWH revealed Himself in the flesh, in Jesus the Messiah, to show and reveal to us sonship. To reveal how we should behave to be children of YHWH, by imitating Jesus. As Isaiah wrote about Immanuel [Isaiah 7:14]. The body became the ultimate sacrifice for sin, which YHWH raised to show us the promised resurrection of the dead. YHWH Himself gave glory to Himself, for who can give Him greater glory than Himself? For this reason, Jesus on one hand shows us how to be sons of YHWH, by speaking and doing things for us to imitate, and on the other hand, He equates Himself with God and allows Himself to be treated as God. - As a digression, I'll note that the Greek word 'Lord' [κύριος] in the Septuagint is a substitute for the word YHWH. So, how should we interpret the text when we replace the word [2962. kurios] with the word YHWH? Shouldn't we do that since the Septuagint indicates that [2962. kurios] is a substitute for the name of God, YHWH? - So who is God to YHWH? Isn't He Himself the only God for Himself? Isn't this exactly what Satan desired, to be like YHWH, to be God for Himself? Does YHWH swear by Himself because there is none greater? Yes - Genesis 22:16, Isaiah 45:23, Jeremiah 22:5, Jeremiah 49:13. Can YHWH anoint Himself? Yes - Psalm 45:6-7. Can He exalt Himself? Yes - Isaiah 33:10.
So what do you think, who is Jesus? Just another human like you and me? Were any of us born of a virgin? Was any of us foretold by the prophets? Is He a unique individual? Who do you think He is? How do you also relate, for example, to passages like Isaiah 43:15, 45:21, and 45:23 in the context of Philippians 2:9-11, 48:12 in the context of Revelation 22:13? What YHWH says about Himself in Isaiah, the apostles write in the context of Jesus. How do you understand Ezekiel 34:11-25? How do you understand 2 Corinthians 5:19, that God was in Christ? Lastly, how do you understand the words of YHWH in Zechariah 3:2? If you find the time, please respond, may YHWH bless you
You never mentioned the God of Jesus.
@@TheTrinityDelusion Is this your response to my questions?
In the Septuagint Psalm 84:3 the Greek has the same word construct as John 20:28. Here the sons of Korach are addressing God only.
Psalm 84:3 My King and my God.
John 20:28 My Lord and my God.
I’m not a trinitarian.
And Jesus taught us all at John 14:5-10 what Thomas is talking about at John 20:28. But were you listening?
@@TheTrinityDelusion why didn’t you allow my second post to be visible?
I thought your were a scholar.
I do not believe in the trinity I am a 1 God believing Christian. however' I do believe God was Manifested in the Flesh and died on the cross shedding his blood for us through the flesh his Son Jesus Christ. Acts 20:28 Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. 1john3:16 KJV Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
1 Timothy 3:16
King James Version
16 And without controve
Are you aware of all the problems with Acts 20:28?
O KYRIOS MOU KAI O THEOS MOU - John 20:18 Greek New Testament
O THEOS MOU KAI O KYRIOS MOU - Psalms 34:23 Greek Septuagint
'Arise, O Lord, and attend to my judgment, [even] to my cause, my God and my Lord.' - Psalm 34:23 Septuagint
ἐξεγέρθητι, Κύριε, καὶ πρόσχες τῇ κρίσει μου, ὁ Θεός μου καὶ ὁ Κύριός μου, εἰς τὴν δίκην μου - Psalm 34:23 Septuagint
ὁ Θεός μου καὶ ὁ Κύριός μου
The God of me and The Lord of me
'exegertheti kurie kai prosches te krisei mou o theos mou kai o kurios mou eis ten diken mou'
O THEOS MOU KAI O KYRIOS MOU
The God of Me and The Lord of Me
- - -
'I said therefore unto ye, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins.' - John 8:24
'As soon then as He had said unto them, I AM, they went backward, and fell to the ground.' - John 18:6
'Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up The Son of man, then shall ye know that I AM' - John 8:28
'EGO EIMI O ON' - Exodus 3:14 / Apocalypse 1:8
- - -
Hello, would you be willing to get in touch with me? I can prove to you the Divine Inspiration of the 1904 Patriarchal Text as well as the Dogmas of the Holy Orthodox Church.
~ silouanos mathew
GreekScriptures (dot) com
BibleProofs (dot) org
Hi, I came across this explanation and wondered what you would think of it An Explanation of John 20:28 Did Thomas Call Jesus God?
Don't agree.
Jesus is God in man reconciling the world unto himself!
My Lord and my God .... is just a surprised expression and reaction from Thomas when he see the wound on Jesus's body. It's just like saying ... oh my God!
NO.
@@TheTrinityDelusion You,re right.
This is what exegesis is all about, and those who would deny this really have no textual grounds to do so.
the problem is, for most trinitarians, logic and scripture has little to do with the issue, because they have already accepted it as a Myster. They are caught up in a romantic image of God dieing for them. Many feel its been revealed to them. They suffer a modern gnosticism.
@@levernallanbowles4093 gnostism is what John was refutting.
The son of God is when the son is with God in spirit, in heaven.
The son of man is when he is in the flesh.
The son of man is Jesus.
The son of God is Immanuel.
Immanuel, which means, God with us.
To get to the father you have to go through the son.
The son's name is Immanuel, God is the meaning of the name.
Through the son, to the father.
Immanuel, God with us.
MY LORD, MY GOD.
one name shared by two.
This does not mean God's name is Immanuel, also.
Jesus knew that his name was Immanuel,
but did not tell us, cause if he did, I would not be here pointing this out to you, what he meant.
( John 5:43)
I have come in my father's name and you do not accept me, but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him.
If you can find where this is said, Jesus said that I am going to the father and he will love you because you believed I was from God.
Did you forget that the son is from the Holy Spirit? This is what Mary was told, what was conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is his father.
And when he, the spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. And he will send another Comforter to be with you forever, the spirit of truth.
This is the Holy Spirit.
Who is to come. The third person.
Who is he, who is to come, with the truth?
Dan. 10:21
Dan. 12:13
Daniel was told what was written in the book of truth, and will rise up at the end times to receive his inheritance.
Daniel, born again, or is it, reborn?
And, do you know that, ( Dan.) means
Judge.
And Daniel is the second son of David, from Abigail of Carmel. Who is the one who will build a temple for the name of the Lord,
God, the father, and the son, will come to him and make him their home. But God what's to make a New thing, by taking the two and making one in him. Three in one?
You understand.
God said when you speak to him, speak to him in spirit.
The name Jesus was given to the flesh.
The name Immanuel was given to him before he came into this world.
This is why God will say to those, "I do not know you." He will only accept the name he gave him.
Oh, before I forget.
The one who comes in his own name, the one you will accept,
is the Holy Spirit, the spirit of truth.
Immanuel's father.
Jesus died on the cross for our sins, and the sins of the world. RIP
But how can he rest in peace if the people worship him and call him God.
Judgment has come and the punishment is outside.
When you pray to the dead, Death comes.
And they are calling him God.
Satan has decived the whole world.
Like a theif in the night. He will save his people. His people are the fallen ones. Jesus said when he spoke to the people in parables, he was speaking another language. He was speaking in tounges.
This is why no one has been able to understand the parables correctly.
Seek first his kingdom and his righteousness.
The deciples asked Jesus, "Why do you speak to the people in parables? Jesus replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.
He only spoke to the people in parables.
One is, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle then for a rich man to enter the kingdom of Heaven.
With man this is impossible, but with God, all things are possible.
In Revelation, the New heaven and the new earth. The Holy city, the New Jerusalem.
The Angel who talked with me had a measuring rod of gold to measure the city it's gate's and it's wall's. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be about 1400 miles in lenght, and as wide as it is high.
The measuring rod of gold, is also the needle. It measures about 1400 miles in lenght. It is laid out like a square. A square is a measuring tool like a
"L" shape ruler, or a compus.
Jesus said, "I will open my mouth in parables, I will utter things hidden since the creation of the World.
Ask and it will be given to you.
Seek and you will find.
Knock and the door will be opened.
This could be a spiritual war.
The Angel's would be saved and mankind would be left worshiping a false god.
I'm surprised you haven't written a book yet. Between this and your website, you could almost copy, edit and compile a simple explanation and refutation of the trinity both Scripturally and logically. I've only read through a couple books on it so far, but neither of them have really taken the time to tackle the logical issues in the words of trinitarians.
For example. I listened to the first 1/3 of the debate again with Brown and White. In Brown's explanation he clearly equivocates around 21 minutes in his explanation of whether YHWH is 3 or 1. He states the one YHWH is a "He,"(who) then says the 3 are part of the one YHWH.God(inferring a *what*), and then goes back to claiming "...how *He* made *Himself* known..." (who again). It's so obviously clear. Anthony points it out, but doesn't really press on the fact the fact enough to expose it's clear illegitimacy.
Then White boldly claims that the "Lamb... is clearly *excluded* from the realm of creation..." from Revelation 5 praising of God and His son(which doesn't work anyways b/c there's other examples that show issues with this anyways). So the lamb, that died--isn't created? So Jesus, the one that died--isn't human now? I'm sorry, a human is a creation of God. So at least Jesus is *half* man, or *fully* man really according to trinity. This is sure double-talk, semi-gnosticism(if not fully).
I hadn't watched the debate in months since I've been studying all this much more thoroughly and it's so clear through-out the debate the trinitarians pretty much want to DENY Jesus being a man. That's the spirit of the antiChrist according to 1st John. The trinitarians heavily presuppose pre-existence. They don't *want* there to be another possible explanation, so instead of admitting it---they level a charge of unitarians presupposing otherwise.
Sorry to rant, but... point is, you should make a book showing these clear issues both with trinity and their proof-texts. I have yet to see another do it that well yet, unless you already know of a book(or books).
Do you have any videos on Luke 23:43?
@@johncathey2945 Create my own videos about what?
Maybe we can't touch it, I don't think there's a issue with Christ being who he claims to be, the issue is coming from the father (spirit) and holy spirit. If you have seen me (Jesus) you have seen the father (spirit) so were is the father and holy spirit? Jesus and father are fine. Jesus and holy spirit are fine but it's father and holy spirit that are the same. They can't be two different spirits. Therefore when Thomas seen Jesus and said my lord and God then yes, OK, but it's different linking the father and holy spirit together because we can't. They are the same.
your misunderstanding what people call the Trinity, or as some call it the God head. there are three separate deities. you have God (the father) the Son and the Holy spirit they are all one in thought .
Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner.
(John 5:19 NASB)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, a nd apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.
(John 1:1-4 NASB)
Now look at Genesis 1 not once mention Christ or the word. it speaks of no one other then the Holy spirit. ok so this is going to be hard to follow but Christ is the words of God. Gods words created the earth. Gods words Let there be light. God said let there be expanse (land) so its hard to grasp because what is going on does not go on in our world. I cant take my words and turn them into a child. but we don't and can't understand at this point and maybe ever the things that God knows Job 40:6-24. we may not understand it all but the bible tells us that Christ is the son of God and he came to earth in the flesh and gave up equality with God Philippians 2:6-11 lived on this earth in human form faced every temptation Man has faced but never gave in and never sin, then after giving us a perfect example of how we are suppose to be he was crucified on a cross and after three days he was raised from the dead so that our sins may be forgiven. now if you believe that and you believe you too can be raised with Christ through baptism Romans 6:1-10 then you to can walk in newness of life on this earth and be joined with him in the next. and that my friends is all that matters.
who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
(Philippians 2:6-11 ESV)
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day. Then God said, "Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters." God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so. God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day. Then God said, "Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear"; and it was so. God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good. Then God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them"; and it was so. The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good. There was evening and there was morning, a third day. Then God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years; and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth"; and it was so. God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also. God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day. Then God said, "Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens." God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good. God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth." There was evening and there was morning, a fifth day. Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind"; and it was so. God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good. Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. God blessed them; and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth." Then God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food"; and it was so. God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.
(Genesis 1:1-31 NASB)
TLDR