Holy shit!!! You already convinced me that hierarchy is the source of pretty much all of these problems, but hearing him talk about how the upper class/leaders of these other groups ruined activist movements really drove that idea home for me. Sheesh... This is a sobering and eye opening!!
yes, it’s a class thing - people with more wealth have more to lose so they get scared when things get shaken up too much - they know things aren’t right but they want smaller moderate changes. while people with less to lose want bigger changes. that’s why marx thought the proletariat would be the ones leading the revolutions. i wasn’t at Standing Rock, but what Arnold says makes sense in that light for sure and is typical
Listened to this in pieces over a few days and I'm glad I finally got around to it. I loved hearing about Arnold's experience with Standing Rock, and also the discussion of how some of the popular approaches to identity politics are actually deeply counter-productive to their anti-oppression goals. Now on to part 2!
now if we can record an ad showing how you were brought back to life or kept alive by this podcast, then we can really get some viewers! probably have big crossover with evangelicalical youtubers!
thanks! this interview deserves more love! make sure to check out fight like an animal if you haven’t yet, his latest episodes where he’s reading chapters from the book he’s writing are excellent!
I'm so happy you guys had this discussion I was in the streets of NY during the BLM uprising of 2020 and I seen that same division amongst different black activist. The people who clearly came from more middle class backgrounds were always to try to "keep the peace", and the people who were clearly working class we were like "nah we bout to fuck shit up!"
yes exactly! it’s in part something to lose vs nothing to lose, and also just the type of discipline training you go through in middle class circles, university etc to make you instinctively not a boat rocking type of person.
Habibi I have no idea how I can even begin expressing my gratitude for you and what you’re doing with these videos. I just turned twenty, growing up in Toronto, fucking nothing about this system/society (hyperbole obviously) ever made sense to me. I remember when I was around ten, I categorized (I didn’t know how to articulate it like this back then, but I had the categories regardless), areas that were built pre-ww2, in my case that was those parts of Toronto, montreal, Kingston, vs. All the car-dependent post-ww2 neighbourhoods (and their corresponding commercial and industrial areas). Any way I’m telling u this because it’s one of these thinks about Canada that didn’t make any sense as a kid, among many other things (like claims that Canada is a democracy, when even as a child I knew that decision making power was hierarchical, and that power came from wealth, but then people turn around and gaslight you saying it’s a democracy). So, what I’m getting at is, you’re helping me understand this fucking weird ass place my parents brought me to (and be able to articulate my understanding). Seriously, you’re one of my heros brother (not that I think this should give you decision making power over me 😉), inshallah we can meet one day, but for the meantime I study your works here. Much love
And not being allowed to wear a hat or hood while I’m at school, having to stand for the national anthem, not being allowed to walk in the hallways while the national anthem is playing (??). These things never made sense and no one explained why we did them. Looking back it was feels like a ritual.
If you’re reading this, something I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on, peppe grillo and five star movement. Haven’t really been able to make sense of it but also I haven’t looked into it that extensively, so I’m wondering if there’s anything you can tell me off the top of your head. Thanks
hey, i love messages like this! where were you born? maghreb or lebanon? my experience was sort of the opposite - i actually trusted most institutions (more or less) and thought things were functional until i was about your age and moved out and got a job and saw how completely insane everything is at that point…
@@-_8809 i don’t know enough to have a real opinion - from what i remember it’s one of these groups saying they’re beyond left and right and all that? those guys usually have no clue what they’re doing, and then when they get to office they get clobbered by all the power of corporations and business and they don’t have the ideological coherence to know how to fight it - though the same is true of most left wing groups that get into power
@@WHATISPOLITICS69 I was actually born here in toronto, but my mom is Irani (Pars), Kurd and iraqi arab, and my dad is like 3rd generation mix of the british isles, + german. By them bringing me here, I mean as in Earth, rather than any specific place on the planet, but specifically this population corridor between windsor and quebec city, because that's where I've been raised. but of course your podcasts have been putting pieces together for me regarding our whole species, where we came from (politics and economics). I mean, the immediate-return economy = full democracy/no one controlling needs of others, is seriously mindblowing. I think it was this episode ^ where you're saying that if the podcast you're making existed when you were a kid, and you found it, that it would blow your mind. I found your stuff like last year because I had gotten into graebers stuff and then found your critiques of dawn of everything, and I've been studying your stuff and all the stuff you're citing, and it is seriously blowing my mind. I've always felt an aversion to authority/political hierarchy but of course I was a kid so I couldn't articulate my objections, and now I'm learning to do so, in great part because of the knowledge you're putting us onto here. Thanks!
As a cis het white guy, this cancel culture taught me my perspective is not likely to be the most useful (which is why I'm sharing it now). Sit down and listen served me pretty well throughout college, and it's a lesson I can only imagine learning through a computer. I hear what you two are saying in regards to PC being a tool for hierarchies and there is no doubt that's the case. Just figured I'd give a little shove back towards their egalitarian origins you mentioned. Great talk, loved the energy level contrast. There's a group doing a podcast on youtube called the deprogram that I think you'd be great guest on.
oh yeah, i agree 100% that there’s a ton of useful stuff in there - the key is to separate that from when the exact same language is used to achieve opposite purposes but under the guise of left wing concepts - check out epsiode 9.1 where I get into that like racism is bad, calling people out for racism is good, but calling people racist in order to get them to stop talking about wage increases just because they said the wrong word, thereby derailing an important conversation to focus on nonsense … that’s bad! whenever there’s a movement that’s a threat to power, whether it’s socialism or christianity or feminism, or black equal rights movements - institutions of power take them and turn them into instruments of power. we need to be aware of this and be able to distinguish the egalitarian versions vs the hierarchical bizarro versions and give them different names so we can see them more clearly and i’ll check out that podcast, thanks!
Around 1:06:00, the line about: "poor white people and poor black people have more in common with each other..." Yeah, that idea is fundamentally dangerous to our mainstream socio-economic system and the hierarchies of wealth/power that they support, and fundamentally points to where things get physically dangerous for activists... I always think about the assasination of Martin Luther King, and Robert and John Kennedy in relation to their moves to unite black rights and poor rights together. Those in power are keenly aware of why keeping people divided (and/or clueless) is necessary to maintain these entrenched hierarchies, even as moves were made by the elites to mollify black activists , which can also be viewed as serving the purposes of better consolidating the interests of wealthy black and wealthy white people together. Thanks for the interesting and entertaining discussion. I hope it gets millions of views.
ill be talking about this more in the future, but yes it’s extremely important, and you can really see the ourtright racism on the right and the supposedly anti-racist hyper identity stoking on the liberal phony left as a two step shuffle accomplishing the same goals but targeted to different audiences
Those studies do show significant correlations but 1. personality isn't actually that consistent over time so the stronger claims don't work and 2. it's not as accurate for subgroups like minorities. I forget the exact study but it showed that black voters in the US with higher openness to experience were more actually likely to vote Republican. Basically, someone's personality interacts with their social context for voting.
yeah i’m skeptical of the personality studies, but i do think open/closed to experience are real personality traits and have some kind of innate roots. But sure it can change, and it makes sense that it would affect voting patterns differently according to context. Life if you’re black and everyone votes democrat it takes someone who’s not wedded to traditions to do something different like vote republican. Are those stats before trump or after?
@@WHATISPOLITICS69 Weird I thought my reply sent but the study was "Personality and Political Attitudes: Relationships across Issue Domains and Political Contexts" by Gerber et al. The other study I was mistaken, it was a study on the moral foundations which is less reliable than personality.
Hi, so a big part of the leftist task would be either to make people more adventurous or open minded, or to give a leftist message in more than one way, that is in a conservative language/ logic for the conservatives, a center way for centrists and a leftist way of course for leftists?
yes! yes to the messaging part i mean. we talk about it more in part 2 of the interview, but for example the idea of socialism can be messaged to appeal to people who want security and stability. also to people who care about traditional values being disrupted. what is more disruptive to families than capitalism ripping parents away from their kids with longer and longer work weeks, and marketing all sorts of garbage ideas to kids and encouraging them to nag their parents etc. meanwhile the fox company whose news division pretends to promote family values, has an entertainment division that hocks more sex and violence than any other channel. in the 18th century left wing messaging was very popular among the same rural american people who today are voting for right wing parties. socialism can also appeal to ideas of strength and freedom etc. left wing and right wing political policies are not inherently more suited to people with higher or lower openness to experience metrics, but it’s just that marketers have found it easier to promote liberal messaging to open to experience types, and conservative messaging to closed to experienced types. in the 18th century it was quite different in europe and america.
Right, so far my approach has been to try to make other people "more like me/us/leftists" but with little success. Looking forward to the next part of the interview.
@@ezehernandez yes exactly, arnold’s whole realization has been that to approach others as if they have the same responses as you, or else that they can be transformed into someone like you is a failure, we have to appeal to different peoples’ sensibilities, but without changing our politics or policies, just our emohasis and messaging
@@WHATISPOLITICS69 But how do we communicate to both groups when one type of message would inherently alienate the other? I was thinking about this from my struggle to get conservative women on side with feminism, I found them very receptive to feminism if the messaging was about supporting mothers, how capitalism makes motherhood disadvantageous through the gender earnings gap, help to escape abusive relationships and support for families through making society more communitarian (the idea that it takes a village to raise a kid). But this messaging alienated others very quickly, many liberal women are staunchly childfree and were suspicious of that messaging for fear that it was creeping pro-natalism which would end up disempowering them. It seems that as soon as you start to appeal to people who want stability you alienate the people who think stability is a threat to their freedom
@@user-mt2co8ip4u i don’t think you need to choose one or the other - you give both sets of arguments to both groups - there are a zillion arguments that appeal to the childfree liberal women - who would they care that socialism would also make families more stable if at the same time it also gives you the right and choice not to have kids or be married or dependant on a man etc?
* "And I like President Xi a lot. I consider him a friend, and -- but I like him a lot. I've gotten to know him very well. He's a strong gentleman, right? Anybody that -- he's a strong guy, tough guy." (June 30, 2019) * "President Xi, who is a strong man, I call him King, he said, 'But I am not King, I am president.' I said, 'No, you're president for life and therefore, you're King.' He said, 'Huh. Huh.' He liked that." (April 2, 2019) * "I had President Xi, who's a friend of mine, who's a very, very good man." (April 12, 2018)
Ah man. This site really hates me as it deletes all my comments or it's the FBI person who is doing it (If so hope you spill your coffee on your computer). Anyway, I wrote this long reply about protracted struggle and it got deleted. Good episode by the way and bonus for the arrow on the face.
i actually have your comment in my notifications but it’s not posted - this seems to happen a lot - I always assume the person regretted their comment and deleted it, but now I know it’s idiotic robot censorship. i hope people don’t think i’m the one deleting them, i’ve never deleted any comment besides obvious spam. I forgot about the arrow thing! Opps! And yes, that’s one of the zillion ways that these protests fizzle out, but I think with more experience people will find ways around these things. I’ve noticed in the last 5 years or so, the level of political intelligence among people in the know has exploded. all these podcasts and youtube channels are making people way more savvy and smart.
@@WHATISPOLITICS69 So for the comments getting deleted, I noticed youtube actually has a setting in youtube studio for automatic moderation. No idea if that's what is creating trouble. In the black community, there is talk about the black misleadership class. But also when someone has a moderate opinion especially in the leadership which they tend to do, the empire knows how to shove a mic on their face and make them the face of public opinion of the struggle. They know how to set the frame and boundaries for our struggles and by the time we realize it, it is already too late. I guess got to be in organized formations with clear goals, language, and definitions to stop that. Middle-class leadership people got to commit class suicide for the sake of struggle and their own long-term benefit as Cabral. said
@@volvolakaemma9209 the only setting i see is “automatically hold comments for review” but nothing that fucking deletes comments without me knowing! Such garbage. I think you need more snazzy terms like “black misleadership class” and discussions about middle class vs working class and lumpen class activists and consciousness on these issues. i feel like it’s sky high in the little pocket that we inhabit in a way that wasn’t true a few years ago, but the trick is spreading this thinking to normal non politically obessed people
this is a very interesting conversation. I was particularly interested in the bit about "tower of babel extraterrestrialism" (lol, great term). I have found this same logic counterproductive or obstructive in social justice spaces, and this is actually the first time i have heard this phenomenon named. i get it is complicated, and i think the reason it never comes up is because that idea has potential to come across as minimizing the experience of the marginalized, which i think is partially a pitfall of language in a way that is hard for me to articulate (i guess it comes down to language being ambiguous in a sense? again, i cant articulate it lol). But it's like, i have to have a baseline understanding that inequality is bad, that groups of people have experienced injustice on a massive scale, and also understand that people experience injustice or indignities in specific ways, in order to take action and support the systemic and institutional changes necessary to eradicate those indignities. that said, this type of understanding is certainly different from the EXPERIENCE of being marginalized itself, which is certainly something which I as a white person will never experience. but that's different from seeing the injustice and accepting that reality.
luckily there’s more and more discussion and critique of this stuff on the left as crazy cancel witch hunts and hyperfragility/safetyism are causing left wing organization to implode almost everywhere. i talk about it more in episode 9.1 and i’ll be doing a lot more on it. but one good example - the idea that you can’t even experience marginalization because you’re white is really just toxic - if you’ve ever had a crappy job, or been in a position where someone with more power than you is making your life difficult because they can - you’ve been marginalized, and you have a window into the same dynamics that exist in sexism, racism etc. instead of connecting cultural hierarchies with class hierarchies so that for example working class people of differernt ethnic backgrounds can unite, these kind of ideas just erase class entirely and make everything about race and gender - and race and gender hierarchies ultimately exist for the purpose of economic exploitation in the first place, so by erasing class you’re actually erasing one of the core features of race and gender as well!
Trump on Putin: The man has very strong control over a country," he said. "Now, it's a very different system and I don't happen to like the system, but certainly in that system, he's been a leader. Far more than our president has been a leader." (September 7, 2016) * "Great move on delay (by V. Putin) - I always knew he was very smart!" (December 20, 2016)
I tried listening to his podcasts, but he is far too verbose. You definitely have an edge over him in my listening experience, because you explain complex ideas very succinctly. Arnold has a meandering, overcomplicated way of talking about things that really annoys me.
Have you read Hector A. Garcia's Sex, Power and Partisanship? He discusses some of these issues, talks a lot about personality types and politics, particularly openness. He is a friend of mine and has a UA-cam channel, would you like to speak with him?! An evolutionary psychologist traces the roots of political divisions back to our primate ancestors and male-dominated social hierarchies.
i haven’t read of it or heard of him - i should check that out because that sounds like a good opportunity! we most likely didn’t have male dominated hierarchies for most of our evolutionary past though, so that sounds suspect…
lol ...when searching for Hector A Garcia on UA-cam ..two channels show up ...one is the psychologist ...with a bit over 2000 subscribers ...talking about social topics and origins of religion and warfare etc .. the other one has over 250.000 subscribers... ..and he's an accountant !!! oh we're all goin to hell !!! LOL
Haha amazing, like why Donald Trump admires Putin and Kim Jong Un. "Kim Jong Un has been, really, somebody that I've gotten to know very well and respect, and hopefully -- and I really believe that, over a period of time, a lot of tremendous things will happen." (April 11, 2019) *[Kim] wrote me beautiful letters and they're great letters. We fell in love." (September 29, 2018) * "Chairman Kim has been really very open and terrific, frankly. And I think he wants to see something happen. So we have done -- I think, mutually, we've done very well with respect to North Korea." (September 24, 2018)
Holy shit!!! You already convinced me that hierarchy is the source of pretty much all of these problems, but hearing him talk about how the upper class/leaders of these other groups ruined activist movements really drove that idea home for me.
Sheesh... This is a sobering and eye opening!!
yes, it’s a class thing - people with more wealth have more to lose so they get scared when things get shaken up too much - they know things aren’t right but they want smaller moderate changes. while people with less to lose want bigger changes. that’s why marx thought the proletariat would be the ones leading the revolutions. i wasn’t at Standing Rock, but what Arnold says makes sense in that light for sure and is typical
Factssss
Listened to this in pieces over a few days and I'm glad I finally got around to it. I loved hearing about Arnold's experience with Standing Rock, and also the discussion of how some of the popular approaches to identity politics are actually deeply counter-productive to their anti-oppression goals.
Now on to part 2!
yay, always nice to get your comments - check out his podcast for more on Standing Rock
_YOUR PODCAST GIVES ME LIFE!_
now if we can record an ad showing how you were brought back to life or kept alive by this podcast, then we can really get some viewers! probably have big crossover with evangelicalical youtubers!
@@WHATISPOLITICS69 Yeah! I'll call my pastor right away!
@@WHATISPOLITICS69 assuming we have hyperbole versus a resurrection, I’d second that
This is quality stuff. Thanks for introducing us to Arnold I can identify with much of what he talks about, I will need to search out his podcast.
you’re going to love it, every episode is just great
What a fun conversation! Really enjoyed. Hopefully this is listened to be folks that need to hear it.
thanks! this interview deserves more love! make sure to check out fight like an animal if you haven’t yet, his latest episodes where he’s reading chapters from the book he’s writing are excellent!
I'm so happy you guys had this discussion I was in the streets of NY during the BLM uprising of 2020 and I seen that same division amongst different black activist. The people who clearly came from more middle class backgrounds were always to try to "keep the peace", and the people who were clearly working class we were like "nah we bout to fuck shit up!"
yes exactly! it’s in part something to lose vs nothing to lose, and also just the type of discipline training you go through in middle class circles, university etc to make you instinctively not a boat rocking type of person.
Habibi I have no idea how I can even begin expressing my gratitude for you and what you’re doing with these videos.
I just turned twenty, growing up in Toronto, fucking nothing about this system/society (hyperbole obviously) ever made sense to me.
I remember when I was around ten, I categorized (I didn’t know how to articulate it like this back then, but I had the categories regardless), areas that were built pre-ww2, in my case that was those parts of Toronto, montreal, Kingston, vs. All the car-dependent post-ww2 neighbourhoods (and their corresponding commercial and industrial areas).
Any way I’m telling u this because it’s one of these thinks about Canada that didn’t make any sense as a kid, among many other things (like claims that Canada is a democracy, when even as a child I knew that decision making power was hierarchical, and that power came from wealth, but then people turn around and gaslight you saying it’s a democracy).
So, what I’m getting at is, you’re helping me understand this fucking weird ass place my parents brought me to (and be able to articulate my understanding).
Seriously, you’re one of my heros brother (not that I think this should give you decision making power over me 😉), inshallah we can meet one day, but for the meantime I study your works here.
Much love
And not being allowed to wear a hat or hood while I’m at school, having to stand for the national anthem, not being allowed to walk in the hallways while the national anthem is playing (??). These things never made sense and no one explained why we did them.
Looking back it was feels like a ritual.
If you’re reading this, something I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on, peppe grillo and five star movement. Haven’t really been able to make sense of it but also I haven’t looked into it that extensively, so I’m wondering if there’s anything you can tell me off the top of your head.
Thanks
hey, i love messages like this! where were you born? maghreb or lebanon?
my experience was sort of the opposite - i actually trusted most institutions (more or less) and thought things were functional until i was about your age and moved out and got a job and saw how completely insane everything is at that point…
@@-_8809 i don’t know enough to have a real opinion - from what i remember it’s one of these groups saying they’re beyond left and right and all that? those guys usually have no clue what they’re doing, and then when they get to office they get clobbered by all the power of corporations and business and they don’t have the ideological coherence to know how to fight it - though the same is true of most left wing groups that get into power
@@WHATISPOLITICS69
I was actually born here in toronto, but my mom is Irani (Pars), Kurd and iraqi arab, and my dad is like 3rd generation mix of the british isles, + german. By them bringing me here, I mean as in Earth, rather than any specific place on the planet, but specifically this population corridor between windsor and quebec city, because that's where I've been raised. but of course your podcasts have been putting pieces together for me regarding our whole species, where we came from (politics and economics).
I mean, the immediate-return economy = full democracy/no one controlling needs of others, is seriously mindblowing. I think it was this episode ^ where you're saying that if the podcast you're making existed when you were a kid, and you found it, that it would blow your mind. I found your stuff like last year because I had gotten into graebers stuff and then found your critiques of dawn of everything, and I've been studying your stuff and all the stuff you're citing, and it is seriously blowing my mind.
I've always felt an aversion to authority/political hierarchy but of course I was a kid so I couldn't articulate my objections, and now I'm learning to do so, in great part because of the knowledge you're putting us onto here. Thanks!
As a cis het white guy, this cancel culture taught me my perspective is not likely to be the most useful (which is why I'm sharing it now). Sit down and listen served me pretty well throughout college, and it's a lesson I can only imagine learning through a computer.
I hear what you two are saying in regards to PC being a tool for hierarchies and there is no doubt that's the case. Just figured I'd give a little shove back towards their egalitarian origins you mentioned.
Great talk, loved the energy level contrast. There's a group doing a podcast on youtube called the deprogram that I think you'd be great guest on.
oh yeah, i agree 100% that there’s a ton of useful stuff in there - the key is to separate that from when the exact same language is used to achieve opposite purposes but under the guise of left wing concepts - check out epsiode 9.1 where I get into that
like racism is bad, calling people out for racism is good, but calling people racist in order to get them to stop talking about wage increases just because they said the wrong word, thereby derailing an important conversation to focus on nonsense … that’s bad!
whenever there’s a movement that’s a threat to power, whether it’s socialism or christianity or feminism, or black equal rights movements - institutions of power take them and turn them into instruments of power.
we need to be aware of this and be able to distinguish the egalitarian versions vs the hierarchical bizarro versions and give them different names so we can see them more clearly
and i’ll check out that podcast, thanks!
Around 1:06:00, the line about: "poor white people and poor black people have more in common with each other..." Yeah, that idea is fundamentally dangerous to our mainstream socio-economic system and the hierarchies of wealth/power that they support, and fundamentally points to where things get physically dangerous for activists... I always think about the assasination of Martin Luther King, and Robert and John Kennedy in relation to their moves to unite black rights and poor rights together. Those in power are keenly aware of why keeping people divided (and/or clueless) is necessary to maintain these entrenched hierarchies, even as moves were made by the elites to mollify black activists , which can also be viewed as serving the purposes of better consolidating the interests of wealthy black and wealthy white people together.
Thanks for the interesting and entertaining discussion. I hope it gets millions of views.
ill be talking about this more in the future, but yes it’s extremely important, and you can really see the ourtright racism on the right and the supposedly anti-racist hyper identity stoking on the liberal phony left as a two step shuffle accomplishing the same goals but targeted to different audiences
It is truly essential to understand the L R, reality versus theater
Walter White screaming from car meme: NO DON'T FALL FOR THE POLITICAL PERSONALITY STUDIES, NO NOOOOOOO
Those studies do show significant correlations but 1. personality isn't actually that consistent over time so the stronger claims don't work and 2. it's not as accurate for subgroups like minorities. I forget the exact study but it showed that black voters in the US with higher openness to experience were more actually likely to vote Republican. Basically, someone's personality interacts with their social context for voting.
yeah i’m skeptical of the personality studies, but i do think open/closed to experience are real personality traits and have some kind of innate roots. But sure it can change, and it makes sense that it would affect voting patterns differently according to context.
Life if you’re black and everyone votes democrat it takes someone who’s not wedded to traditions to do something different like vote republican.
Are those stats before trump or after?
@@WHATISPOLITICS69 Weird I thought my reply sent but the study was "Personality and Political Attitudes: Relationships across Issue Domains and Political Contexts" by Gerber et al. The other study I was mistaken, it was a study on the moral foundations which is less reliable than personality.
@@sheriffliberty9302 thanks! sometimes youtube swallows and deletes comments for some reason even though i have all my censorship settings off
Do a deepdive into
'SCL Group Ltd'
Microtargeted&Br^inw^shed MAGA
Hi, so a big part of the leftist task would be either to make people more adventurous or open minded, or to give a leftist message in more than one way, that is in a conservative language/ logic for the conservatives, a center way for centrists and a leftist way of course for leftists?
yes! yes to the messaging part i mean. we talk about it more in part 2 of the interview, but for example the idea of socialism can be messaged to appeal to people who want security and stability. also to people who care about traditional values being disrupted. what is more disruptive to families than capitalism ripping parents away from their kids with longer and longer work weeks, and marketing all sorts of garbage ideas to kids and encouraging them to nag their parents etc. meanwhile the fox company whose news division pretends to promote family values, has an entertainment division that hocks more sex and violence than any other channel. in the 18th century left wing messaging was very popular among the same rural american people who today are voting for right wing parties. socialism can also appeal to ideas of strength and freedom etc. left wing and right wing political policies are not inherently more suited to people with higher or lower openness to experience metrics, but it’s just that marketers have found it easier to promote liberal messaging to open to experience types, and conservative messaging to closed to experienced types. in the 18th century it was quite different in europe and america.
Right, so far my approach has been to try to make other people "more like me/us/leftists" but with little success. Looking forward to the next part of the interview.
@@ezehernandez yes exactly, arnold’s whole realization has been that to approach others as if they have the same responses as you, or else that they can be transformed into someone like you is a failure, we have to appeal to different peoples’ sensibilities, but without changing our politics or policies, just our emohasis and messaging
@@WHATISPOLITICS69 But how do we communicate to both groups when one type of message would inherently alienate the other? I was thinking about this from my struggle to get conservative women on side with feminism, I found them very receptive to feminism if the messaging was about supporting mothers, how capitalism makes motherhood disadvantageous through the gender earnings gap, help to escape abusive relationships and support for families through making society more communitarian (the idea that it takes a village to raise a kid). But this messaging alienated others very quickly, many liberal women are staunchly childfree and were suspicious of that messaging for fear that it was creeping pro-natalism which would end up disempowering them. It seems that as soon as you start to appeal to people who want stability you alienate the people who think stability is a threat to their freedom
@@user-mt2co8ip4u i don’t think you need to choose one or the other - you give both sets of arguments to both groups - there are a zillion arguments that appeal to the childfree liberal women - who would they care that socialism would also make families more stable if at the same time it also gives you the right and choice not to have kids or be married or dependant on a man etc?
* "And I like President Xi a lot. I consider him a friend, and -- but I like him a lot. I've gotten to know him very well. He's a strong gentleman, right? Anybody that -- he's a strong guy, tough guy." (June 30, 2019)
* "President Xi, who is a strong man, I call him King, he said, 'But I am not King, I am president.' I said, 'No, you're president for life and therefore, you're King.' He said, 'Huh. Huh.' He liked that." (April 2, 2019)
* "I had President Xi, who's a friend of mine, who's a very, very good man." (April 12, 2018)
Ah man. This site really hates me as it deletes all my comments or it's the FBI person who is doing it (If so hope you spill your coffee on your computer). Anyway, I wrote this long reply about protracted struggle and it got deleted. Good episode by the way and bonus for the arrow on the face.
i actually have your comment in my notifications but it’s not posted - this seems to happen a lot - I always assume the person regretted their comment and deleted it, but now I know it’s idiotic robot censorship. i hope people don’t think i’m the one deleting them, i’ve never deleted any comment besides obvious spam. I forgot about the arrow thing! Opps! And yes, that’s one of the zillion ways that these protests fizzle out, but I think with more experience people will find ways around these things. I’ve noticed in the last 5 years or so, the level of political intelligence among people in the know has exploded. all these podcasts and youtube channels are making people way more savvy and smart.
@@WHATISPOLITICS69 So for the comments getting deleted, I noticed youtube actually has a setting in youtube studio for automatic moderation. No idea if that's what is creating trouble. In the black community, there is talk about the black misleadership class. But also when someone has a moderate opinion especially in the leadership which they tend to do, the empire knows how to shove a mic on their face and make them the face of public opinion of the struggle. They know how to set the frame and boundaries for our struggles and by the time we realize it, it is already too late. I guess got to be in organized formations with clear goals, language, and definitions to stop that. Middle-class leadership people got to commit class suicide for the sake of struggle and their own long-term benefit as Cabral. said
@@volvolakaemma9209 the only setting i see is “automatically hold comments for review” but nothing that fucking deletes comments without me knowing! Such garbage. I think you need more snazzy terms like “black misleadership class” and discussions about middle class vs working class and lumpen class activists and consciousness on these issues. i feel like it’s sky high in the little pocket that we inhabit in a way that wasn’t true a few years ago, but the trick is spreading this thinking to normal non politically obessed people
This is really accessible, thank you for sharing your conversation, hopefully either of you could get on joe rogan
haha put in a good word with joe for us!
@@WHATISPOLITICS69 would you rather I go on his show? I’d do that, maybe not till I do some more push-ups, but eventually
@@FreerMasons monoclonal antibodies
this is a very interesting conversation. I was particularly interested in the bit about "tower of babel extraterrestrialism" (lol, great term). I have found this same logic counterproductive or obstructive in social justice spaces, and this is actually the first time i have heard this phenomenon named. i get it is complicated, and i think the reason it never comes up is because that idea has potential to come across as minimizing the experience of the marginalized, which i think is partially a pitfall of language in a way that is hard for me to articulate (i guess it comes down to language being ambiguous in a sense? again, i cant articulate it lol). But it's like, i have to have a baseline understanding that inequality is bad, that groups of people have experienced injustice on a massive scale, and also understand that people experience injustice or indignities in specific ways, in order to take action and support the systemic and institutional changes necessary to eradicate those indignities. that said, this type of understanding is certainly different from the EXPERIENCE of being marginalized itself, which is certainly something which I as a white person will never experience. but that's different from seeing the injustice and accepting that reality.
luckily there’s more and more discussion and critique of this stuff on the left as crazy cancel witch hunts and hyperfragility/safetyism are causing left wing organization to implode almost everywhere. i talk about it more in episode 9.1 and i’ll be doing a lot more on it.
but one good example - the idea that you can’t even experience marginalization because you’re white is really just toxic - if you’ve ever had a crappy job, or been in a position where someone with more power than you is making your life difficult because they can - you’ve been marginalized, and you have a window into the same dynamics that exist in sexism, racism etc. instead of connecting cultural hierarchies with class hierarchies so that for example working class people of differernt ethnic backgrounds can unite, these kind of ideas just erase class entirely and make everything about race and gender - and race and gender hierarchies ultimately exist for the purpose of economic exploitation in the first place, so by erasing class you’re actually erasing one of the core features of race and gender as well!
Trump on Putin:
The man has very strong control over a country," he said. "Now, it's a very different system and I don't happen to like the system, but certainly in that system, he's been a leader. Far more than our president has been a leader." (September 7, 2016)
* "Great move on delay (by V. Putin) - I always knew he was very smart!" (December 20, 2016)
I tried listening to his podcasts, but he is far too verbose. You definitely have an edge over him in my listening experience, because you explain complex ideas very succinctly. Arnold has a meandering, overcomplicated way of talking about things that really annoys me.
aw that’s too bad, i really love his stuff. but it is very different in style from what i’m doing
Have you read Hector A. Garcia's Sex, Power and Partisanship? He discusses some of these issues, talks a lot about personality types and politics, particularly openness. He is a friend of mine and has a UA-cam channel, would you like to speak with him?!
An evolutionary psychologist traces the roots of political divisions back to our primate ancestors and male-dominated social hierarchies.
i haven’t read of it or heard of him - i should check that out because that sounds like a good opportunity! we most likely didn’t have male dominated hierarchies for most of our evolutionary past though, so that sounds suspect…
lol ...when searching for Hector A Garcia on UA-cam ..two channels show up ...one is the psychologist ...with a bit over 2000 subscribers ...talking about social topics and origins of religion and warfare etc ..
the other one has over 250.000 subscribers...
..and he's an accountant !!!
oh we're all goin to hell !!! LOL
Cursor eye
Liberal racecraft is kinda cringe
indeed, and it’s hypocritical and ironic to boot
Haha amazing, like why Donald Trump admires Putin and Kim Jong Un.
"Kim Jong Un has been, really, somebody that I've gotten to know very well and respect, and hopefully -- and I really believe that, over a period of time, a lot of tremendous things will happen." (April 11, 2019)
*[Kim] wrote me beautiful letters and they're great letters. We fell in love." (September 29, 2018)
* "Chairman Kim has been really very open and terrific, frankly. And I think he wants to see something happen. So we have done -- I think, mutually, we've done very well with respect to North Korea." (September 24, 2018)