Red vs Blue - Fluance RT 84/85 Turntable
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- FLUANCE HAS CHANGED THE CONFIGURATION OF THE RT-84/85 MODELS. THE 84 NOW COMES WITH THE BLUE, AND ALUMINUM PLATTER.
Audiorpheus's Red vs Blue Video: • Ortofon 2M Red vs 2M B...
My Fluance RT-84 Review: • Fluance RT84 Turntable...
My Fluance RT-81 Review: • Fluance RT-81 Turntabl...
More of my music: / user-551461074
My 45 "After All" on RT-85: Pending...
Also… Your “needle-drop” demonstration was more useful than just about any other similar demo I’ve seen in a UA-cam video. Great job. Thanks!
Yeah, I have both the 2M Red and the 2M Blue styli, and, despite what 99% of reviewers say about them being like night and day, my obviously non-audiophile ears don'y hear an enormous amount of difference. Here in the UK, the Red costs £64 while the Blue is £145, so more than double the price, but is there really that much of an improvement in sound quality? I'm not sure. Maybe I just need to develop my listening muscles a bit more, and comment again then.
Also, I'm not sure what Fluance is doing in the US right now, but here in the UK, the RT84 doesn't come with the acrylic platter, it comes with the same aluminium rubber mat combo that the RT81 to 83 models have, so the platter is the only difference between the top two models. Anyway, just thought I'd mention it.
I’m new to the vinyl world and your videos have helped me a lot
Thanks for everything
I understood for many many years the difference between a standard Diamond tip and a nude diamond. So I bought this awesome new Technics SL 1500 C turntable which of course the 2m red was pre-mounted on it. I had been listening to a fantastic cartridge which unfortunately for some reason Shure in their own Infinite Wisdom decided to stop making cartridges and styli just when vinyl has made a solid comeback. And the cartridge I was used to for over 20 years was the m97xe which I absolutely loved. I bought that cartridge when it was $160. Like I said about 20 years ago. So naturally I'm trying to find a replacement cartridge that's going to imitate the Shure cartridge. Well, at first I did not like the 2m red at all because it had a much higher output of 5.5mv which is just about on the edge of high, loud output DJ cartridges which I have had much experience with considering I've DJ'd over the last three-and-a-half decades. RETIRED NOW! So now I can just concentrate on my audiophile-ism.
I must say that over the course of about a month I really started to like the sound of the 2m red. Practically every style of music that I played sounded fine. The 2m red is definitely a great all-around cartridge that won't let you down and you don't have to pay around $100 for one if you have already got one with a turntable you purchased over the last year or two.
So I got curious and decided to go ahead and buy a 2m blue stylus to see what all the fuss was about just because it was a nude mount. I didn't mind paying $209 for the so-called upgrade.
As far as the difference goes, you will notice an immediate change. It's louder in the high-end frequencies and a bit more of a punch in the bottom and very overwhelming in the mid-range section of the music. I am not a mid-range kind of guy. I like an all-around good warm cartridge that will attack any style of music and represent it well and is very engaging and no ear fatigue. The 2m blue is not warm sounding. You might as well just be playing a CD.
The outright best part about the 2m red is that it has a warm sound to it. Vinyl records are to sound warm not necessarily neutral. That sounds like you're talking about a CD player.
Overall what I have found is that the 2m blue does have his distinctive different qualities than the 2m red but for me personally I'm going to stick with the 2m red just because of its overall ability to reproduce any Style music. The 2m blue is picky. If you happen to have a lesser than better pressing of some record, you will hear a crappier sounding record than you will if you're using the 2m red instead.
Just stick with a 2m red and save your money. I rather see you go out and spend $209 on some great vinyl records then on the 2m blue stylus. Personally to me it's not an upgrade.
From what I have seen, the Ortofon Blue generally costs approximately $100 USD more from most retailers than the Red, so spending $50 more to get it seems like a no-brainer if you are already looking at buying the RT84/85. I am more internally debating whether it is worth the extra $100 to get the acrylic platter. Thanks for the videos, they do help.
I'm in the same situation, do you think it's really worth the acrylic plate, for what you've found out? I was decided by the rt85 but now I'm more inclined for the rt83, I do not know what to do, any advice?
When I moved from the Ortofon Red to the Blue, I found tracking was superb -- records skipping was completely eliminated. From my notes I commented that the sound produced seemed a bit more immersive and full.
I tought the blue sounded clearer and it picked up less noise then the red.
We have very similar views about this subject. After looking at all my options for about a month, I decided on the RT85 walnut with acrylic platter and blue. Even at $500, and the price of the blue, this turntable is a steal. It’s well made with great large acorn rubber feet for isolation. The dust cover feels thick and substantial and not thin. I only wish the tone arm lever was metal instead of plastic. Very happy.
What other options were you considering?
I own an old Technics SL 3200 with a Nagaoka MP110 cartridge. It's been distorting lately and I think after probably 40 years of use it's completed its life cycle. I have been looking at the Fluance RT85 as a replacement as I can't afford the new Technics TT right now. Your experience so far after a year of use? Would you purchase it again after your experience so far?
I absolutely cannot hear any difference on second record. They both sound amazing. I'm considering the red as a replacement for my PL-200 setup(on my Technics SL-23), which actually sounds great too.
I went to Amazon and noticed that they are now selling the 84 with the blue, where as 5 hours ago, on this day of 3-22-20, ago they were selling the 84 series with the red, interesting.. I think your comment made them realize.. I bought the 84 walnut one. Your video are very informative. I have not bought a "new line" turntable in about a decade,(my stand by is Technics SL1400) But they listened to you, and in 5 hours span, since I checked in the US,they included their blue Ortofon with the 84 series! Thanks again for being honest and to the point. I hope I enjoy it as much as you do. I am too a 40 year musician, but very much into jazz and classical. Yes sometimes I do pull out my 60's and 70's lps. I hope they sound a little different! thanks again!
Hello Craig, I want to know your opinion about Nagaoka MP-110. And I would like you to make a comparison between Nagaoka MP-110 and Ortofon 2M Blue. There is a high debate around the 2 brands. Can you make a video about it, if you have time. And one more thing: is there any difference between Acrylic Platter and Aluminium Platter at Fluance Turntables? Thank you.
Thanks so much for reviewing the Red vs Blue. I'm one of the folks who recommended the blue, and I do think that it will open up and settle in. My turntable came with the red but after a while I upgraded to the blue stylus and I'm so glad I did.
I own an old Technics SL 3200 with a Nagaoka MP110 cartridge. It's been distorting lately and I think after probably 40 years of use it's completed its life cycle. I have been looking at the Fluance RT85 as a replacement as I can't afford the new Technics TT right now. Your experience so far after a year of use? Would you purchase it again after your experience so far?
My turntable is a Project one, and I have Ortofon 2M Blue as my stylus. Yes I would recomend the Blue, I really like the sound I get from it now. May be in the future I will step up to the Orange, but that needs a better cartridge for it to fit in. Also I can put a mono stylus on the Ortofon 2M cartridge so that I can play 78s. And I have a number of 78s.
Craig. Your reviews and personal presentation are incredible. You convinced me to begin my vinyl journey last May with the RT81 over the ATLP120 as well as finding the AT440MLA cartridge. I just ordered the RT85, again based largely on my love of the 81 and your review of the 85. Now for the big question. Which cartridge is going to be better, the 440MLA or the Blue? Also, I’m absolutely in love with your songs on your personal record. Is there ANY way I could buy a copy from you please??? 😘
Hey! Did you purchase it? Which cartridge do you like better?
Get a free copy of Craig’s single with every ortofon blue cartridge
Nice authentic sounding view there Craig... Your music is so fresh sounding too! Like to watch as well as listen out your views and advices... Keep it coming! God bless you
Yes I agree invisible man in the sky spaghetti monster or pagan effigy bless you too
craig, hv u tried the nagaoka mp110?
I truly enjoy watching your videos, Craig. Lots of good, useful information and you are a great voice also, for those new to the hobby. I agree with you that Fluance does offer very good turntables that are built well, look great and offer much for your hard earned dollar. I would love to see the RT-85 go head to head with a three way shootout between the Pro-ject Debut Carbon and the Rega P1. That battle might just underscore the value Fluance offers in their turntable!
Okay, I'm not an audiophile in the true sense of the word since I'm partially deaf; however, I do like my music, so I listen to what you have to say, and enjoy your talks/lessons immensely.
But, your red vs blue styli comparison only showed me that I cannot tell the difference between a really great cartridge and an excellent cartridge. I have an Audio-Technica AT-LP120 which, thanks to your info, I'll probably upgrade to the Red cartridge in the near future. Thanks.
The Blue sounds less sibilant than the red, couldn't detect whether that's because the red is simply a brighter cartridge or whether the blue stylus better handles the mastering, as you are suggesting...or a combo of the two. But, what I thought was equally pleasing with the Blue was a fuller, deeper bass and my vote definitely goes to the Blue.
Great video! ... But I made a mistake in my last comment to you. I was pushing you to try the Blue... But I have since figured out that the Nagaoka MP-110 cartridge is much much better, and half the price... Pair that with the Schiit Mani preamp and Wow! what a combo!
i just put the Nagaoka MP-110 on my vintage Sony PS-X600 and wow it sounds amazing for the $100 i paid
No worries. I didn't buy anything. I also love my AT440mla. Best I've heard so far.
Nice video Craig buuuut, I'm more than happy with my "1999'' Rega Planar "thingy"(lol).
I'd like to see a video of the RT81 with the 2m blue vs RT84/85 with 2m red.... now that WOULD be interesting!!!!!!!!!
#vinylforever
ev white he seems content to tell all and sundry that Fluance is the last word. Rega turntables are outstanding and RP1 is at a similar price point.
@@spinningtheblackcircle8554 ..lol
He seems like a nice enough guy,we like Rega he likes Flunance(apples & oranges)my friend.
#vinylforever
He owns 2 fluances. Should he be talking about tables he doesnt have? And at no point did he even bring up Fluance being the last word. Odd that he’s not allowed to exist in his own space.
MF MERIK It means there is no reference point whatsoever. Good via what comparison? Did he audition others before buying the Fluance? That doesn’t cost money and it’s insane to invest in something like this without auditioning.
Great review. I could clearly hear the difference, even on my crappy 2.1 desktop speaker setup.
My personal impression was that the red sounded good and the blue sounded really good. While I don't feel that you could go wrong with either one, is the difference worth the $$$?
The answer is simple. It's subjective and economics. If the cartridge you can afford gives you joy listening to your vinyl, that's the right one.
I may be wrong but I felt like I heard a difference in the mids-highs and the breathy-ness of it?
They are both 8/18 elliptical stylus. Only difference is the weight of the nude compared to the bonded. Unless the diamond tips are really a different shape. The blue extends the upper limit from 22k to 25k hz from the red. I am quite happy with my RT81.
Definitely hearing a difference in that snare. I'm sold.
You must also Maybe have a really good preamp to hear the difference so a really low noise level preamp and of course a good amplifier and good speakers and they must be correctly placed
Craig, as I replied to a previous video regarding your RT-84, after much research I purchased the RT-85 and got it set up on my system. Thought it was really a great turntable until I discovered the auto stop feature, which was one of their big selling points, failed to work repeatably on every record I put on it. They had an RT-83 in their facility and it did the same thing. Wanted me to send it back "for repair if possible", and would only send me a new unit if it could not be repaired. Why should I be asked to accept a repaired unit instead of a new unit that has been verified to be working properly? If they had done this instead, I wouldn't have asked for a refund, just a turntable that would function as advertised. Your video stated it would stop only after 17-18 revolutions which I consider to be not auto stop, more like stop when I feel like it. Appreciate your videos and comments.
on the 2nd comparsion i could hear a slight difference in the high end.
the question is, as you said, if that slight difference is enough to justify spending that much more.
I love my RT85 with its Ortofon 2M Blue. It's my main turntable. My advice to prospective buyers: Monitor the condition of the stylus. Those wear out faster than one might expect. I keep extra stylii on-hand.
Play records from late 60s/early 70s and i can guarantee you hear a difference...
I own an old Technics SL 3200 with a Nagaoka MP110 cartridge. It's been distorting lately and I think after probably 40 years of use it's completed its life cycle. I have been looking at the Fluance RT85 as a replacement as I can't afford the new Technics TT right now. Your experience so far after a year of use? Would you purchase it again after your experience so far?
The Blue needs above 50 hours of break-in period. The Blue sounded HORRIBLE for the first 5 records compared to the Red I’ve been using for a few years. About ever 10 records, the Blue opens up.
I was advised to not freak out or make any changes to my tone settings, as the Blue needed to break in. I’ve been told that the Blue is truly broken in after 100 hours.
I thought something was very wrong with my system for the first couple of albums. It was very harsh. Now with well over 100 hours, it sounds fantastic. Hot swapping the stylus is super easy and the difference is obvious.
I look forward to passing the "break-in" period. I often wonder what is being "broken in"... the cartridge or the human. I should make some high resolution recordings of the cartridge as it is now, and then compare those to when it's broken in. I could even do some blind comparisons for my viewers. Would be interesting. Might take a year or so, tho. I don't listen to vinyl every day.
100 hours?!!!
We grew up in probably the greatest time for music and I know teens today love music and I hope they are cool with the 80's kids sharing and caring about them and sharing our experiene with them!! I wish I could take the teens of today back to our time in the 80's for 1 year.
2M Red, 2M blue - Hate both...I am sorry but he best cartridges for these are the AT-- In my case the AT440Mla (the 440Mlb would be good also) perfection with these tables.
The low end is better on the blue.
Getting my RT-85 tomorrow. 15% off sale, $425, oh yeah. Can't wait to hear it. Btw, I have the td-17kvx drum set. After 3 or 4 years I've had to replace one crash cymbal. Other than that, it's a really good unit. Combined with EZDrummer 3 software, the possibilities are endless.
The comparison video you're referring to had very apparent differences between to the two (and thats with youtube and recording compression factored in), so claiming you couldnt hear a difference really hits your credibility...
The theory is that the lower mass at the tip of the nude stylus allows it to track better. Most people think that works so it’s worth thinking about.
The subtle difference between the red and blue does not come through well over UA-cam. It’s more likely to be apparent in person I’d assume. There is a very slight difference in the onset of the “s” words but not enough to distract me.
Thank you for curing me of a case of buyer's remorse. I've been researching for a $500ish turntable to replace my exisiting LP120 and now that my finance committee (ahem my wife) approved the purchase, I jumped on the RT85. I could not decide on three companies and after I ordered the Fluance, I suddenly had second thoughts. Maybe I should push the extra mile and get the Pro-Ject with its sexy tonearm? But your video smacked me in the head, save your money bozo and invest it instead. lol I'm here sitting in the kitchen waitng for UPS to deliver it tonight!
Thoughts or experience with the Pro-Ject Debut Recordmaster USB turntable? The newer one with the 2M Red. I intend to listen in real-time via USB through my HTPC going straight through my Khadas Tone Board, this way I can use a high quality digital EQ (my custom speakers absolutely require the use of an EQ to boost bass).
Clearly a difference on your 45. I have a 2M Blue on my Technics SL-3310 and I am looking to get a RT85N in white with the Nagaoka MP-110 or the Technics SL-1500 in white, with 2M blue on it. It's a price difference about €600 . Love your posts
It’s difficult to judge sound with electronic music. I would to a comparison with classical music of an entire orchestra. Accousticaly recorded massed strings will really tell what a cartridge can and cannot do.
I agree with Matt here. At least, this is what my ears can detect better. Classical music may only be ~10% of what I listen to routinely, but it seems to present better sound qualities and tonal variations which can help determine the small differences between different stylii and/or cartridges. Might also be due to better mastering, I don't know.
There is a lot of acoustic music. myself I love the sound of an acoustic guitar
Completely agree, and I would even argue that is the primary draw to hifi anyways.
Thanks for surveying that noise discrepancy. I just played my 45yr old RAM album and one of the tracks gave me an obvious ssssssibling, I think you called it. It was Linda McCartney singing high pitched. It was annoying, but only on that one track. I have the Fluance RT-82 with the Ortofon OM-10 (red) cartridge. I think that the Ortofon 2M Red is a 'new and improved' OM-10? My Fluance RT-82 is brand new.
Thank you! This is the exact kind of comparison I've been looking for. Any recommendations on an affordable but quality phono pre-amp and reasonably priced powered speakers, ill will gladly take them. Thanks again!
IMHO Ortofons are over-priced. You might recall the old Stanton 680EE.That was my first cartridge (I had on a Pioneer PL112D), and though I was only 14 years old I knew to get the overhang, azimuth and tracking force right for it to sound its best (and not wear my records wrong/badly). I saw you have an Audio-Technica AT95E on a table you used to demo proper set-up. You can get (I believe nude-mounted) Shibata styli for both those carts. A JICO Shibata for the Stanton is about $225. A 680EE can be found for around $60. For under $300 you can have a cart that'll compare favorably with an Ortofon 2M Black, which sells for near $700. LP Gear has a Shibata for your AT95E that goes for under $180. That cart with the LP Gear Shibata will crush an Ortofon 2M Blue - especially tracking the inner grooves. The only down-side is you REALLY have to set it up right, and the records have to be REALLY clean! Shibata (and Linear Contact) styli are the bomb, my friend. Try one and you'll see - er, hear!
I could hear the red stylus was splashing on the S's more than the blue one. As for the Fluance vs other TT's, do you find the tonearm adjustment challenging? Nice stylus comparison., thank you.
The only two things that stop me from buying a Fluance turntable are that they aren't automatic and they won't play 78's. I could live without it being automatic but I'd still want to be able to play my 78's, which I play using an Ortofon 2m Gray mono.
First time I've stumbled across your videos - absolutely fantastic explanation. And I loved your piece of advise with not always splurging for the fancy shiny model and living within your means. It's very easy to get carried away especially when shopping for vinyl & turntables, so it's good advice, thanks!
In other words, the difference is still not worth the extra money. Good information and I purchased the turntable with the 2M Red.
Yup! Sibilance! Those "s" sounds in "SStart again" and also on the word "juSSt" come through loud and fuzzy. However, on my MacBook Pro speakers (2021) the rest of the soundstage sounds more open on the blue cartridge,
The second track on the MBP sounds identical under both But & Red. Maybe just a tad of difference on the drum passage just after the word 'climb' in "If there is a stairway you must CLIMB...". But, it's in that range of listening that I may well be fooling myself, and would mis-identify it in a blind test. So, in the final analysis, this may be an A/B demonstration on vinyl mastering more than Ortofon Red/Blue ;-)))))
However, I agree 100% with your suggestion that the Red cartridge is the right first stop for most systems. Upgrade to the Blue after two years of great listening on the Red! Then do comparisons.
My buddy Foster at the hi-fi shop spent over $20,000 on a turntable. Back in 1993 I bought a Miata for $28,000 and was listening to a NAD 533 that cost $550 (came with an Elan cartridge that sounds a lot like the Ortofon Red on an AB comparison). Even today my Miata sounds better than his turntable, hands down, with the top off.
Blue is better. Red is a great.
If you are going to be spending the extra cash for the blue, then you are probably in that league where you will own several cartridges and swap them around to make comparisons and obtain different results on different cuts of vinyl. Maybe even on more than one turntable. In that case, having a Red around that has been played for a year or two will add depth to the 'stable'.
Great video!
As of now, the price difference from the RT84 to the RT85 is only $50. But if just upgrading the stylus, the difference is close to $120. No brainer
I recently discovered your channel and I really like the honest views you express in your videos. Wondering how you would compare the Audio Technica AT-LP140X to the Fluance RT85? Perhaps you haven't seen the AT-LP140X but I read it is much improved over the 120 which I know you own. I am looking to buy a new turntable and these two are on the top of my list. I am just a casual listener so don't need all the dj tools but I do appreciate some of them like the VTA. I have always been a bit of a direct drive fan. If you have an opinion on it I would love to hear what you think of it. Cheers!
I wonder if people really can hear a difference in audio quality when upgrading their gear, I don’t think most people can. I have done some upgrades to my system.....new speakers, MQA DAC, new amp etc, and I have listened to different comparison , between cheap and EXPENSIVE gear......and I can never hear any difference....not at all! I can listen to low quality mp3 files vs high quality FLAC files, and still don’t hear any difference. And neither can anyone I know. I was thinking about upgrading my cartridge on my turntable......but I guess I will just be throwing my money down the drain.....
Let me chime in one more time. I apologize for my negative comment below. I'm sure Ortofon makes fine cartridges. I just wish all the manufacturers would show actual pictures of their styli. A big Thank You Craig for doing that for us! It appears the RT85 is definitely worth the extra $50 US dollars over the RT84. I bought the RT81 and was a little disappointed. I love the turntable but thought the AT95E cartridge 3.5 millivolt output was weak. I thought about returning the RT81 and paying the extra $150 for the RT83 because the Ortofon Red is 5.5 mv, but I liked the concealed belt on the RT81. Instead I bought the Audio Technica AT-XP3 cartridge because it also is 5.5 mv output and I wanted to try the .6 mil conical it comes with. It tops out at 18khz response but even tracking at 2 grams it is quit a bit brighter than the AT95E in my opinion. I have looked at both the styli of these two cartridges as well as my old Empire 245E elliptical stylus under the microscope and think if I buy any more cartridges it will be a Audio Technica AT-VM95ML microline at $169. If you ever have that much I'd love to see you review that one against the 440ML I hate to buy a cartridge and return it (even if I'm allowed to) but feel I need to see the stylus under a microscope before I accept it. Thanks again for Vinyl TV and enjoy those brews!
I take it the only difference between the 84 and the 85 is the cartridge? I know the 85 comes fitted with the 2Mblue. So all Fluance did was send you a blue cartridge to replace the red on your 84? Am I understanding correctly? Ps. I have both the red and the blue which I swap on a Technics sl-1500c... Seriously considering getting the RT85.
I purchased the RED several years ago and felt that it was a suitable representative to the VINYL sound. I felt that the Bronze and Black more closely resembled the sound from DIGITAL recordings. I have long felt that the digital domain strips away too much of the ambiant sound of recordings. If that is true, or not, I am not really sure. I have been very pleased with the RED. and justifying spending another $240 is just not warranted.
Definitely the blue was a better of the 2 cartridges the vocals had more body to them and forward the topend was more separated and not modelled plus it didn't have the sibilance like the red.
You said your other cartridge on your other table what is this cartridge?
Worth replacing the arm you don't have to spend a big fortune Origin live make some fantastic arms at reasonable prices that's the upgrade you should be doing not the table as you say. You should buy their bearing oil as well it's very good won numerous awards.
I think he also have AT440-MLa he use to show now and then... ;)
I don't fuss over the arm. If it moves around smoothly and doesn't resonate when I put my ear up to it, it's fine by me. The stylus and cartridge, and a quite, steady motor are the most important to me. The other cartridge is an AT440mla.
Hello, I was happy to exchange the Ortofon 2m Blue portable gram for 2m Black. Just buy a new tip and replace the black one with a blue one, or do you have to buy the whole head? Well thank you.
I really loved the two songs you played on the comparisons. They where you’re songs did you put ou an album or just 45s’. Is there anyway to purchase these ? When my AT turntable started giving me problems a year ago I got the Fluance RT85. H
I have never had any regrets. I love watching your videos thank you for posting them
The RT84 now comes with the Ortofon Blue cartridge. However, it does not come with the acrylic platter. The RT84 in the video has an acrylic platter, so I'm assuming it USED to come with it and an Ortofon Red cartridge??? I wonder why they switched things up???
I might be imagining a difference but I think I did hear a difference. You say this sibilance is the result of poor mastering. You should do a needle drop with Gordon Lightfoot's early albums from United Artists. Sibilance is TERRIBLE with an inexpensive cartridge, (Shure V15 Type III with a third party replacement stylus). I replaced it with the Ortofon 2M Red and a lot of the sibilance disappeared. I also have an Ortofon 2M Black and almost ALL the sibilance disappeared. By almost all I mean you REALLY had to be listening for it to notice it. Still it's my judgement that the early original Lightfoot recordings from United Artists were poorly mastered and the sibilance is not solely the fault of the different stylus.
Craig, Fluance modified they're feature differentiation between the RT84 and 85; they both now use the Ortofon Blue. The difference now is the 84 uses the aluminum platter and the 85 uses the acrylic for $50 more. What are your thoughts on acrylic vs aluminum platters?
You helped me decide. I bought the RT85 with the free PA10 preamp promotion for Black Friday. Can't wait to upgrade my AT-120 (which you also helped me select) with it.
I was looking to replace the stylus on my Pioneer PL-560 and was leaning toward the blue. Now I'm thinking about the Fluance RT 85. You may have just cost me more money. :) By the way I love the shirt!
Do they have a cartridge higher than the blue...have had a DUAL 721...think that was the number..Shure cartridge...fully automatic...had it since Navy days ..70's...anyway been looking at this 85 for some time now...was really fascinated by the design...just wonder bout that belt drive..that turned me away but after listening ...through a phone it really gets my attention again...oh I wish for the days where high end stereo stores were around so I could hear up close...by chance have you studied the new DUAL ...forgot the number but it is what I consider traditional..motor drives disk...spelling might be off...platter...directly...what do you think ..similar price range ...thanks though and I know throwing a lot out there...good advise you have given..do enjoy listening to your videos
Just my honest mind, but the video you reference I think that guy is being dishonest. I'll tell you why. First it doesn't show the record labels. That's how I found out he's dishonest. In the video of him at 2:13 he is playing a yellow record. The group is a Chilean group called Los Angeles Negros from the 70s. The song is "El rey y yo" that I know there are no yellow presses of this group in particular. So I am taking his review as pure rubbish.
Once you go black 2M you won't go back.
Now the 84 and 85 both come with the blue-only difference is $50 extra for the acrylic platter. l want to get the 83 with the red-l can always upgrade to the blue later if l want to.
Saving up for the RT85! I’m sold! I noticed that the Blue cartridge sits quite a bit lower than the Red cartridge. Any idea why that is? Almost looks as if it’s about to bottom out. Wow, that’s low!
I have a RT-85 and I love It.
It’s beautiful, not expensive and sounds great.
Just ordered mine
Was a little worried with some issues people have had with motor but that was over a year ago these reviews and issues happened so I hope they've sorted this out.
I'm excited. Biggest purchase I've made so far. In the world of turntables it's not expensive and for the price you get alot with the platter and the cost of the blue cart.
Yup. Night and day. Sh to S. Clearly. Glad I bought the RT-84, it now comes with the blue. That "splatter" would drive me nuts.
Elliptical stylus are far best on one records, and Astatic MF-200 I’d. Ball buster Shibata and my Grace. Totally stay away from conical stylus , they are garbage the ride on the top of the groove.
Do the various Fluance models come with different tone arms? Or are they all the same across the product line? They sure all look the same. I have the RT80 which I think is fine but if I ever decide to upgrade I’d sure like to know more details about the differences. Their website doesn’t say too much about motor or belt specs. Just really the weight of the plinths and the cartridge specs. Thanks much for your videos. I think you are trying to bring this audiology to the common person.
It's 45rpm single, so it's not a huge difference.
But, yes, Blue is a very good cart. Few years ago I shot a sample video ua-cam.com/video/wS1b0JS_rnM/v-deo.html
Ive heard ortofons wear very fast. It would be an idea to do a test on how much playing time you get from the ortofon compared to the audio technica. Pricing kind of reminds me of printers and printer cartridges.
Not realy, i have 2m red on my Dennon df 300 table since 2013, still plays like new
Ortofon does recommend you to change stylus after about 1000 hours of play time
Just wondering if you have a recommendation for the best stylus brush for our Ortofon 2M Blue on my RT 85 Fluance? Thanks.
Just curious if recordings were being mastered more brightly back in the 80s with cassettes being the popular media at the time. Little off topic, but I ask because I find music today is being mastered for little Bluetooth speakers and earbuds.
the vinil makes that sound when badly pressed or recorded ,old records didn´t make that sound, maybe 50´s turntables did. there´s a reason why i still listen to vinil , just because there isn´t a cd with half of the quality, normally on analog recordings or all good bands
in my opinion those turntables are nothing ,buy old on ebay and have them restored , if you have money spend 7.000€ on a turntable and around 5.000€ on a cartridge or avoid listen to guitars or drums and listen only electronic music in cd, you look like you have enough age to had heard when turntables were good ,why saying those things are you paid for that
I watched this video the whole way through and I'm trying to figure out what you're trying to sell here. Are you trying to sell me Ortofon cartridges are you trying to sell me Fluance turntables???
Go for the Bronze or Black I own a black with a Shibata stylus. I was flabbergasted by the black. The only setback is the records must be perfectly clear.
The RT84 has an aluminum platter while the RT85 and RT85N have an acrylic platter that many suggets is superior to the aluminum.
I wonder if there would be a difference with orchestral music where you sometimes have 100 instruments playing simultaneously and with extremes of tonal range?
Dear Craig, I live in New Orleans and am a vinyl collector. I need to know where you got your amazing nola vinyl shirt. Please please please 🙏🏼
I have a lot of MoFi pressing and the difference in the Blue and Red is the Blue has a bigger sound stage and a more crisp sound. I also have a Ortofon Bronze on a Music Hall MMF 5.1 se and that is playing thru a McIntosh receiver with 2 Adcom power amps and it sounds incredible. I'm a big fan of Ortofon cartridges.
They change the RT-84. Now it comes with the Ortofon 2M Blue but not the acrylic platter.
I was waiting with my eyes closed to hear you restart the song for the blue cartridge. I was surprised when you asked 'could we hear the difference'. So I guess the answer is no.
Right? I had to listen 3 times and really listen for key parts to hear any difference. I might have been convincing myself I heard a difference.
I think this is really good because for me, I'm probably good with the red. I'm still doing research.
Hello, Craigh.
Happy with with your channel. I am a new member learning a lot about vinyl, and loving it.
Greetings from Brazil!
Blue sounded much deeper and richer in tone over the Red!
I have been looking for a new turntable to replace the inexpensive one that was given to me about 7 years ago. After all my research over the past 6 months, or so, I have decided on a Fluance turntable, I was just trying to determine which model to purchase. This video, among others, have helped me choose the RT83. For me, the additional $100 USD is not worth upgrading to the Ortofon 2M Blue cartridge. For my listening pleasure at home the 2M Red will be just fine. I greatly appreciate your channel and willingness to provide your honest opinion. I don't know you personally but I feel your focus is to distribute information in a clear and calm manner in an effort to allow others to enjoy vinyl as much as you. Thank you sir.
How does the blue compare to Nagaoka MP-110 cartridge on the RT85N
The 2m blue has much less splash then the 2m red. Definitely more depth with the 2m blue. No offense but not the best song to demonstrate period but otherwise I thank you for the video and the 2m blue is definitely worth the extra money.
In the US there is only a $50 price difference between the RT-84 and RT-85. Get the RT-85. It's a no brainer.
Who else listened to the old needle drop to compare the 2m blue to the audio technica? BTW I like the 440 more, if you were wondering.
ua-cam.com/video/y_6EGW2lTmQ/v-deo.html
I have the AT540 from audiotecnica on my RT85 and it blows the ortophon blue away
Thanks for your review. Fluance has made things even more fun! Now, the RT84 comes with the 2MBlue BUT an aluminum platter. The RT85 has both the acrylic platter AND the 2M Blue. I was not sure that I would notice the difference in sound reproduction, I did! There is! At least I was able to settle this to my satisfaction as my wallet has to come into consideration. The $70 and some odd dollar difference between the RT84 and the RT85 is for me 100 percent worth it. Every penny. Get it. Again, thank you for your reviews.
The blue is definitely better but I've moved from the Ortifon 2m series to the Nagaoka MP series and I'm not looking back. The 2m blue was very detailed but lacked that warm vinyl tone and my Nagaoka MP-150 keeps the detail but sounds more tonally balanced and overall warmer.
I could hear a difference. The blue sounds more refined. As you say if you have the bucks go for the Blue if that’s what you want.
The RT-85 is only $65.00 CDN more then the RT-84 so the RT-85 is the best deal when you compare how much the stylus sells for.
Can you please look at a fully automatic onboard preamp for us paupers please and let me know what speakers to pair with them? I don't want to buy a seperate receiver. Thanks.
The arm on the fluance let's the whole reference line down... Very cheap and nasty.. Apart from that...it's a good table
I heard the difference, but I don't know that I prefer one version over the other as they both sound good, just different.
But are they really identical? Hmmm, I wonder what FLUANCE has to say about that. 😉
Hi Craig, to me, the blue have less bass and more hi khz. The red have more bass and less hi khz. i like more the bue. Thanks for your videos!