Have you considered printing one, sanding and refining it then making a mold with 2 part silicone. Then you can quickly cast multiple copies with 2 part epoxy resin, all smooth and ready to stack.
@@charlesangell_bulmtl Printing is not quick. Like literal days. Especially for larger parts. It's much faster overall to print one as a prototype to mold around and then rapidly cast resin copies of it.
@@KaiserTom There are a lot of settings you can tweak (infill percentages, nozzle size, number of perimeters...) to improve speed, but beyond that 3D printing leaves layer lines as it's just a stack of (typically) 0.2-0.3mm layers of plastic, sanding smooths out the surface imperfections which would mean less turbulent airflow, so it's still an excellent idea.
@@OldManSparkplug yes Michael I’ve done what you talk about (just not one of these) a few times, and it’s the best method. I don’t understand why so many people on UA-cam use their 3D printer to make the end product. The lines look so cheap and printed plastic delaminates often easily. It’s not that much more time to clean/prep the part and make a silicone mold. From then on you can pump out strong and beautiful parts quickly.
You are a God send to those of us who love to learn. Even if people don't DIY we still learn a ton of stuff. This is a welcome channel. It helps to drown out the stupidity in this world today. Thank you Sir. We love ya
Theres a paper out there on making "cupped" Tesla turbines, the idea came from wood cutters needing to be a "cupped" blade so it straightens as the speed increases and the blade gets hotter
@@MortifiedU dimples are meant to decrease turbulence and drag (caused by the back side) of the golf ball as it hits the air. What you need here is laminar flow and no turbulence created by the disk itself. The boundary layer principle of the TT operation means the air isn't pushing anything (like in conventional blades), but it's dragging the disk along as it passes parallel to it, to put it simply. Great tangential thinking though, always helps to have an open mind about how different effects can be applied in these experiments.
@@MortifiedU You don't actually want friction. TT's aren't friction driven a common misconception according to Tesla himself they're electric turbines because rather than friction what you want is electrostatic adhesion. Friction is causes when the discs slip and move faster relative to the motive fluid what you want is the opposite a reduction of slip this is how to create torque and work.
It's certainly along the same lines as Viktor S's energy machine that produced much too much pressure and more or less blew itself up. The cones should work exceptionally well in both of these machines.
@@daviddroomer1441 I was thinking the same kind of thing as the "particulate" spirals through the forced vortex the pressure builds, can this pressure be used to drive the initial particulate into the "machine"
So, basically, make them like the spring screws in a wire nut are made: From a square plastic "rod" wound together, but then heated to bond into the cone...
Brilliant Rob , Nice to see someone thinking outside the box. Its a fact that you never know if some thing is going to work until you try it. If you dont try it you will never know. great video as always.
Oddly enough, I had thought of this many years ago. Idea was to make this from oil funnels. If you were to allow them to move freely and wobble, the effects will be much greater. Maybe a small plastic spring between each for movement and friction. The wobble is for low airflow running. Love everything you are doing.....
Robert Murray-Smith , an easy way to make them as fine a blade and minimize the gap, print a male and female solid form and press thin aluminum sheet between them. 3D prints are strong enough to form 1/8 mild steel sheet in a hydraulic press if your careful. As for Aluminum stock , use old printing sheets from your local news printers . Can be had for very little money , Soft enough to press in shallow shapes like this but hard enough to be useful.
Very cool! I don't have the time to try this myself at the moment, but I wonder if adding lateral supports on the outside and removing the brace in the centre would make the flow more uniform. The lateral supports could possibly be wing shaped to give it a push start. Then the output shaft should be the same diameter at the cone openings, giving a lot of surface area for magnets.
For an omni directional you may want an external guide deflector, either in four or eight vanes, coming out in a bit of a pseudo rosette, (other descriptions may cause issue as seen from the top), such that fluid movement is guided to push to single direction of spin, as well as no countering forces.
the conical tesla turbines design looks similar to of a self inflating valve..which kinda makes sense .. the two elements of tesla turbine withat that darwin base generatorstacked almost seem to create that toroidal effect ..which is also making big advances in blades for drones and shallow boat props... ..very intriguing series ..great fun . cheers
Robert, the cylinder version will work the best. But you have to enter the air into the outermost slot close to tangential, through a few narrow ports spaced around the outside, and step it down to each smaller slot in series as it goes back to the other end backwards and forwards till exiting at the core.
@@mookiemorjax I was thinking along those lines. This would be lighter and could power electric or hydraulic drive. Just put it a top the mast and you're good to go. Of course it would have to be larger.
Spacing between profiles is critical, informed by the "boundary layer" - an emergent microscopic property - and the viscosity of the fluid entering the Tesla Turbine. You'll need to tinker to get it right, might not be possible to 3D print if the goal is highest efficiency but I certainly hope you can achieve a radical result.
Hello Robert, I recently found you. Enjoying TNT immensely. The physics behind Tesla's Turbine is very different to flow dynamics - suggest you take another look at what the old genius found. You'd learn, for instance, why the cylindrical print hadn't a chance of working. Keep on challenging our ingrained assumptions on your search for a hyper-efficient Energy Grail, I'll follow with vicarious enthusiasm.
As with all rotational energy generation you will need to gear the system to stop overspin. An external cylinder could be lowered or raised to close off wind access to each cone allowing the system to be completely smothered during storms or for maintenance.
Interesting concept, I think this would be better used as a tesla pump, but would be super interesting to see it in a casing. I have to disagree about the high pressure. I recently got 888 mph periphery speed with my 3 inch tesla turbine going 99,400 rpm on less then 3 psi. This was with the boiler and condenser being void of atmospheric pressure.
Greatly enjoying as always Robert, been keeping up with all videos.wondered if a rough or dimpled surface would grip more air to get better turning force for the same input over a smooth surface. Fantastic your free uploads, these printers seem a great way to do complex shapes For many projects. All the best Rob. Shame Luke didn't get the battery for twingo.
This is why I like you Robert! You think very similarly to invention concepts that have been bouncing around in my head for decades! You have the skills to make them reality though. I much enjoy watching your process.
You personify all that is right with humans. Building up the ability of hundreds of thousands of people to become able to improve the understanding of important tech for themselves and their communities. You reach millions of people like this. In a very good way! You rule! Genius at work for nothing but helping humanity progress. The world will be massively improved by your influence on evolution a thousand years from now. Thank you so much for your invaluable contributions to a brighter future!
Now make the rim of each one smaller and smaller as it stacks so that it can catch wind not only from the side but from the front as well in the shape of a tangent ogive.
so if you combine the tesla turbine hyperbolic funnel with the darwin funnel, you could mount the darwin funnel to the top of the waters turbine and increase the effect of each part? or would they subtract efficiency from the other parts?
I was thinking something similar, though also that something to watch out for is, in these quick tests the moving air seems directed at one half of the tesla turbine, which wouldn't be happening in free wind. There, I think the wind would be blowing across both sides, giving virtually equal torque but in opposite directions so essentially cancel each other out. A possible remedy for that would be ( what I'm calling ) a Diagonal Tesla Wind Wall where a series of Tesla Turbines are staggered by ( about ) the radius apart, that way each one ( mostly ) blocks the negative torque to the one behind it. The air exiting the individual Tesla Turbines could be routed together to turn an additional single, more conventional, turbine.
Just Incase you didn't know the Tesla Turbine doesn't need to operate at high RPM's to achieve results, the efficiency increases as the surface area increases and the gaps between the blades decrease. Tesla also filed a patent for an upgraded turbine number 186,082.
@@off6848 I'm familiar with its use providing more torque inversely to the speed of the fluid between the plates but not its function as an electrostatic turbine, explain please?
@@JenkoRun Glad you asked because I think a lot of pop science channels get this wrong on purpose to discredit Tesla and his designs. “I have been working at this a long time. Many years ago I invented a pump for pumping mercury. Just a plain disk, like this, and it would work very well. ‘All right,’ I said, ‘that is friction.’ But one day I thought it out, and I thought, ‘No, that is not friction, it is something else. The particles are not always sliding by the disk, but some of them at least are carried along with it. Therefore it cannot be friction. It must be adhesion.’ And that, you see, was the real beginning. “For if you can imagine a wheel rotating in a medium, whether the fluid is receiving or imparting energy, and moving at nearly the same velocity as the fluid, then you have a minimum of friction, you get little or no ‘slip.’ Then you are getting something very different from friction; you are making use of adhesion alone. It’s all so simple, so very simple. This is the greatest of my inventions" -Nikola Tesla (September 18th, 1911) The fluid that’s just off the surface of the disc face is statically adhered to said disc face and never moving relative to the disc. The torque to the disc comes from shear stress cohesion forces within the motive fluid trying to move through itself. The shear force is transferred through the motive fluid itself to the layer of fluid that is statically adhered to the disc faces, and then through the virtue of molecular adhesion the discs are pulled along with it, or Vice versa the discs pull the fluid along with it. The only friction involved in this is that of internal friction within the fluid against moving through itself, ie Cohesive viscous forces. "A very important key part of the operating functions that everyone gets wrong. This is not a mechanical turbine in any shape or form. Since all molecular adhesion and internal viscous forces within a fluid are governed by electron orbital interactions, this makes the Tesla turbine a purely electronic turbine." - Charlie Solis Tesla Turbine inventor of the Tesla Turbine jet engine" Another myth is that the disc and motive fluid materials don't matter but since it works by electrostatic adhesion they do matter ideally you want your disc surface to phillic towards your motive fluid. "The Difference Between Adhesion and Cohesion: The tendency of two or more different molecules to bond with each other is known as Adhesion Whereas the force of attraction between the same molecules is known as Cohesion. The adhesion forces can be one of the results of electrostatic forces which are exerted on different substances. The cohesive forces are associated with Van der Waals forces and hydrogen bonding that cause liquids such as water to withstand the separation. When a glass surface is poured with water, both adhesive and the cohesive forces act on the surface of the water. A strong adhesive force tends the liquid to spread over the surface whereas a strong cohesive force is responsible for the formation of water droplets on the water surface. The adhesion and cohesion forces, both vary in their strengths. For example, if cohesion forces between the water molecules are stronger than that of the adhesion forces between them, then the individual molecules will attract towards each other thus resulting in settling. In the other case, if the adhesion forces of the water surfaces are stronger than that of the cohesion forces of the water molecules, then the water tends to disperse. Plastic substrates are difficult to bond because they are "hydrophobic" (not naturally wettable), possess poor surface wettability (i.e., low surface energies), nonpolar-inert structures and possess poor surface-chemical functionality. " - Charlie Solis So as much as this old guy has heart he's really not studying the primary sources for how these things function I believe by using 3d printed plastics he's really just building a slip machine.
@@JenkoRunfrom Dr. Tesla Talks Of Gas Turbines. ““I have been working at this a long time. Many years ago I invented a pump for pumping mercury. Just a plain disk, like this, and it would work very well. ‘All right,’ I said, ‘that is friction.’ But one day I thought it out, and I thought, ‘No, that is not friction, it is something else. The particles are not always sliding by the disk, but some of them at least are carried along with it. Therefore it cannot be friction. It must be adhesion.’ And that, you see, was the real beginning. “For if you can imagine a wheel rotating in a medium, whether the fluid is receiving or imparting energy, and moving at nearly the same velocity as the fluid, then you have a minimum of friction, you get little or no ‘slip.’ Then you are getting something very different from friction; you are making use of adhesion alone. It’s all so simple, so very simple. “This is the greatest of my inventions,” Tesla went on with great enthusiasm.“
Like this a lot Rob! Here is something that will make a difference in torque for you. Take sandpaper and scuff the surfaces of the cones. This will add even more drag as air flows over it. Would be easily done and be a very quick mod. This is how those rocks in the desert act as sails and move. Spirals would help, but not be as efficient as just making your surfaces rough. A smooth stone in a moving stream is less likely to move than a rough one. It's just a thought, thanks for all you do! Keep the thought provoking videos coming Rob!
Yet the skin of a shark is rough and a stingray all knobbly and you find if you sand a canoe or kayak hull it goes quicker through the water. Even golf balls to smoother through the air with little dimples all over them. These actually developed from smooth balls getting scuffed and players finding they could hit a scuffed ball further. All these suggest your scuffed surface would produce even less not more drag. I think it comes from the rough surface holding air or water molecules and the flowing air /water slipping over them easier than it would a different material.
@@jamesross1003 But there you go-apples are smooth and oranges are dimpled so you just have to blow a hairdryer over some fruit and we'll have the answer.
@@Martin-se3ij Better yet, just actually test what we are talking about and find out the real answer instead of bantering back and forth. Want to find out about just such a supposition? Take 2 books interleave the pages of them alternating. Now find out how hard they are to pull apart. Now it is true that static plays a part, but the biggest factor on it is the surface of the paper pages causing friction. Think of the wind as one page and the cone surface as the other and use the law of equal and opposing forces to surmise what will happen. Once satisfied with that result, then actually go build the unit that Rob did and test it.
You've answered your own question. Smooth pages stick together, now try it with pages of rough paper and they are much easier to pull apart. Although there is an element of suction at work here. You might want to read Kevin Farrell's in depth book on drag.
I believe that creating the funnel shape will assist the working fluid in exiting the turbine, decreasing the residency time of the fluid pulling the spinning armature along with it, decreasing power and efficiency. You want flat discs so that the centrifugal force acts on the fluid to squeeze as much kinetic energy out of it before it exits. Of course, if you want as accurate info as possible, you should consult Charlie Solis who's established himself as having the most powerful/efficient Tesla Turbine on UA-cam.
I wouldn't use spiral grooves. I suspect they would be wind/water velocity specific. Maybe a sand paper like roughened surface to increase the laminar friction between the air/water and the turbine across all wind/water velocity ranges?
I so look forward to your trips down the science rabbit hole. Thankyou for the hands that go where our minds have only wondered. Tesla turbines are a favorite. He had a grasp of boundary layer physics before NACA had an airfoil. All the horsepower derived i n a system dependent upon aerodynamic drag will be pulled out of a transition layer less than a thousand of an inch thick called the boundary layer. Tesla was brilliant enough to contrive a turbine where the close clearances between the discs allowed for back to back boundary layers that allow a zone of laminar flow in the center. The problem then became one of surface area. Big discs. Unfortunately, no materials available could withstand the primarily centrifugal forces induced by the high rpm required to make a steam turbine practical.
A tesla turbine can work with a single disk, cylinder, cone or even just a ball, as the defining function is the interaction between a fast moving medium, a surface and the drag created on/in the boundary layer(s). More discs just mean more surface areas for boundary layers to happen. And you can nest discs/cones much easier in a way that the moving medium passes over the surface perpendicular to the axis, then you could with a cylinder. Adding dimples/bumps to add speed/power could be a way to increase boundary layers and interaction with the moving medium.
You get another example of this boundary layer at work when you spray water from a hose, but put your thumb over the hole to create a high-pressure fan, then stick a paint roller in the fan so the fan touches it barely at first. in a second or two it will spin up like a powerful flywheel
The exhaust should feed back into the intake to allow for another layer of compound effects. Then low pressure is only a worry when rotation first begins.
I wonder if you could remove the central shaft. Make the holes increasingly larger, as you get towards the "exhaust". Use the Venturi effect to lower pressure in the center. Check out the eAhora M1P. I think there's the potential for practical perpetual motion.
I was wondering if you could use alternating dissociative metals for the inner turbine wheels and use an electrolyte solution for the propellant to create HHO gas while the turbine is running. Of course the whole unit would have to be electrified though. Loved this video!
In CAD, create a cube, then extrude the shape of your cone from the top face of the cube. Make sure that the inner most circular zone of the cone is also extruded to create a cylinder sitting proud of the tip of the cone. Save this as a separate solid shape. Once this has been done, create 2 x22mm square holes running all the way through the cubed base to the opposite face, from the left to the right edge. Then, use the CAD slicing tool to slice through the front face in 22mm vertically orientated layers running from left to right. Finally create 2 x 22mm x the left to right measurement across the lower edge of the front of the cube battons. Save this as a separate file containing all the sliced shapes + the 2 X battons. Have the job-lot sent to a plywood CNC company (maybe give them some advertising in exchange for the CNC time). Once they have cut the basic shapes for you, have them stick each of the layers together such that they are slid over the battons to ensure correct positioning. Once the solid shape has been created, have them use the solid shape file to have the curves milled to the required dimensions based on the solid object you first saved. Then, it should be a simple enough task to fibreglass your cones using the former you've just created while using the 3D printer to create some spiraled separators to keep each layer the exact distance apart then need to be. Could design the cones and spirals to slide over a plastic pipe during the construction phase to ensure that each layer is perfectly positioned during the layup and gluing phase too.
LOL, I clearly remember the first time I took a significant chunk off the tip of a finger. I was holding a rather large vacuum AC motor, had the tip of my left index right next to an inner cooling van vent. Flipped it on after a rewire job, schlurp! Whacked it right off square.
cant think of the name of it but its the force that when 2 high trailered artics drive side by side on the motorway pulls the 2 vehicles together, and this was part of the thinkiing in teslas original turbine before he went on to using liquids, same thing happens to bikers overtaking artics on the motorway as the wind convection off the truck tries to pull passing motorcycles under the truck
Have you thought of shaping the cross arms to be like aircraft foils. So as the air spirals down into the centre, you might pick up extra pulling power by the cross arms being shaped. Don't know if it would make a difference. But why not try!
A while back, I conceptualized a Tesla Turbine SIMILAR to this, the key difference being that the torroidal funnels would lead to the opposite funnel on the other end. The idea being to create a Torsion Field engine that could convert gases into a plasma. Maybe someday I'll finish sketching it.
Cool idea. Could you cut short pieces of rubber hose and place them in between the funnels? Using the natural bend, arch, in the hose as your grooves. Maybe 9 pieces super glued per funnel might do it. ?
A parabolic cone should work better than a disc. Because on a disk the fluid needs to take an abrupt 90° angle to leave the disk outlet, causing high pressure. On a cone the fluids should escape the system more freely.
Hello, Robert! This is fun to think about. I'm looking around at an uninspiring day for energy collection. The breeze is very light, the sky is overcast, and there's no rain falling. 🤔
You have the vortex- great idea now maybe imbed a fibonacci spiral design -spiral pop out on it or groves on it. Grab more air? Or fluid? Cool fun work
Pressed steel out of steel sheets. As you could have a mold bend the pieces into shape as well as have the middle keyed so that you can have a shaft through the middle more secure. And you can use washers for spacing. this would require some sort of press and mold, but in the end the product would probably be eventually cheaper as you wouldn't have to run a 3d printer. Just pressurize a hydraulic cylinder over and over on a sheet of rolled stainless or other metal of your choice. Of course you'd have to make a specific mold for the shape.
I remember a talk about Tesla taking advantage of the binary layer a 2 mm gap between one plate and the other. I am thinking this can be stamped, from sheet metal, in a press with a mold, for each section.
I am surprised at how much that looks like the top of an Egyptian djed pillar. If that was on the top of a pillar and the pillar was hollow that would supply fresh air to any underground cavern or tunnel that was under the pillar. I thinking alone the lines of naturally driven mine ventilation. Thanks for the video, and the inspiration.
I'm wondering if adding some type of texture to the discs would improve the frictional effect of the air on the spin. Perhaps dimples like a golf ball has or possibly even something more geometrically efficient such as half moon shaped micro ridges. Just a thought.
You don't want friction. If you read Teslas patent he states it is not a friction device it works on electrostatic adhesion the regime of forces should move with eachother ideally not relative to eachother that causes slip which kills torque and increases friction which is why pop science dumbies keep building these to insane rpm's and destroying their turbine. Increasing rpm only makes a slip machine that heats up and warps your motive fluid and disc should be moving as close to insync as possible.
Great stuff, as always. But I thought the main principal of the Tesla turbine was the working fluid exits through the central axis so that the fluid accelerates as it travels, since the area of the disk is constantly decreasing and the volume of the fluid remains a constant. Hence the insane RPMs generated by some of these devices.
The formula I heard was 3feet diameter disks separated by 0.4mm gap at 50K RPM and driven by dry steam. This combination was expected to be the highest efficiency except that the materials he tried couldnt handle the tensile stress and that made him pareback on the specs. Had Tesla been able to work with graphene, he might have reached a marketable product, reliable enough for mass production.
Combined the two different systems possibly? (top and bottom ) The first system captures the wind from the top and forces it down. The exiting air holes go through a pipe of the same diameter and connect to a larger circular pipe as to not restrict the air flow🍃 ( think wheel and spokes )☸. With one exit pipe or two pipes opposite exiting connected directly to the flat tesla turbine. Just a thought since the wind is already captured and assuming it will not create to much back pressure or restrict the airflow for the top system.
It’s the Eddie’s at work, variable space would be ‘brake and acceleration’, but Tesla already knew this and used it in valves. The intersection arrives when we leave the bench and work in three dimensions, not two in the ‘flat dimension, in practice’.
Robert, your enthusiasim and positivity is great! But it would help to explore the fluid dynamics a bit more, with mathematics so we can compare the different designs. Great work
Love this wind funnel concept you could simply add more funnels to capture more wind but still keeping it relatively Compact you could put something like this at the side of your house and you wouldn't even hear it compared to a blade or a fin turbine
A Tesla turbine principles is a friction between air molecules and a surface. Everything else is some misunderstanding of a hydrodynamics. Your high voltage line isolator works only because of a rough surface after a 3D printer.
I had a kid's board game that had a funnel and used a marble rolling around as a timer, forget the name. I wonder... painter's funnels? They're conical. Spiral grooves... you don't need to do but a couple cm worth of rework. Use a NACA airfoil where the cones hold together, pointed in the direction you need the generator to go. A high-lift glider foil might be best. Stack lots more in an off-center spiral? Fire alarm horns? Old PA speaker horns?
Alrighty, I just finished modifying the design to fit the shaft of a carbon fiber rod I had laying around in the lab. The printers just started, ruby red translucent PETg. I think I'll start with 6 discs. I have an aluminum sprocket as well that fits my cf shaft. I wish I had an anemometer handy to compare wind speed v. power output. What do you think for generator selection?
Have you considered printing one, sanding and refining it then making a mold with 2 part silicone. Then you can quickly cast multiple copies with 2 part epoxy resin, all smooth and ready to stack.
Why, when you should be able to print a complete part?
@@charlesangell_bulmtl Printing is not quick. Like literal days. Especially for larger parts. It's much faster overall to print one as a prototype to mold around and then rapidly cast resin copies of it.
@@KaiserTom There are a lot of settings you can tweak (infill percentages, nozzle size, number of perimeters...) to improve speed, but beyond that 3D printing leaves layer lines as it's just a stack of (typically) 0.2-0.3mm layers of plastic, sanding smooths out the surface imperfections which would mean less turbulent airflow, so it's still an excellent idea.
@@OldManSparkplug : Anything that weakens a Tesla turbine is undesirable.
@@OldManSparkplug yes Michael I’ve done what you talk about (just not one of these) a few times, and it’s the best method. I don’t understand why so many people on UA-cam use their 3D printer to make the end product. The lines look so cheap and printed plastic delaminates often easily. It’s not that much more time to clean/prep the part and make a silicone mold. From then on you can pump out strong and beautiful parts quickly.
Sent my son a lengthy, excited text about this project. You’re bringing families together! ❤😊
nice!
You are a God send to those of us who love to learn. Even if people don't DIY we still learn a ton of stuff. This is a welcome channel. It helps to drown out the stupidity in this world today.
Thank you Sir. We love ya
Love your enthusiasm for what you do!
Very much enjoying your show. I think what you’re doing is important and useful; in addition to being very educational.
Theres a paper out there on making "cupped" Tesla turbines, the idea came from wood cutters needing to be a "cupped" blade so it straightens as the speed increases and the blade gets hotter
I wonder if golf ball dimples would add friction points for ease of spin, more hydro thought 💭
@@MortifiedU dimples are meant to decrease turbulence and drag (caused by the back side) of the golf ball as it hits the air. What you need here is laminar flow and no turbulence created by the disk itself. The boundary layer principle of the TT operation means the air isn't pushing anything (like in conventional blades), but it's dragging the disk along as it passes parallel to it, to put it simply. Great tangential thinking though, always helps to have an open mind about how different effects can be applied in these experiments.
@@georgepapaphoenix dimples create lift
@@pakistaniraveasylum1396 you're right, they also improve lift in golf balls(TIL).
@@MortifiedU You don't actually want friction. TT's aren't friction driven a common misconception according to Tesla himself they're electric turbines because rather than friction what you want is electrostatic adhesion. Friction is causes when the discs slip and move faster relative to the motive fluid what you want is the opposite a reduction of slip this is how to create torque and work.
Love how much fun you're having testing all these ideas out!
if it's not fun it's not worth doing mate
@@ThinkingandTinkering True that.
Keep on doing what ya doing mate! 🖖🏼
Spiral grooved hyperbolic nested discs will lead you straight to Viktor Schauberger... I'm very excited to see what you'll do next!
I can see that, build a water turbine like that energize the water at the same time.
It's certainly along the same lines as Viktor S's energy machine that produced much too much pressure and more or less blew itself up.
The cones should work exceptionally well in both of these machines.
@@daviddroomer1441 I was thinking the same kind of thing as the "particulate" spirals through the forced vortex the pressure builds, can this pressure be used to drive the initial particulate into the "machine"
So, basically, make them like the spring screws in a wire nut are made: From a square plastic "rod" wound together, but then heated to bond into the cone...
Repulsine :D
Brilliant Rob , Nice to see someone thinking outside the box. Its a fact that you never know if some thing is going to work until you try it. If you dont try it you will never know. great video as always.
Oddly enough, I had thought of this many years ago. Idea was to make this from oil funnels. If you were to allow them to move freely and wobble, the effects will be much greater. Maybe a small plastic spring between each for movement and friction. The wobble is for low airflow running.
Love everything you are doing.....
I love how excited you get about this stuff.
Robert Murray-Smith , an easy way to make them as fine a blade and minimize the gap, print a male and female solid form and press thin aluminum sheet between them. 3D prints are strong enough to form 1/8 mild steel sheet in a hydraulic press if your careful. As for Aluminum stock , use old printing sheets from your local news printers . Can be had for very little money , Soft enough to press in shallow shapes like this but hard enough to be useful.
The jolly eureka laughter is worth listening to all day! Gold brother! Thank you for these videos - gives sparks!
Love the man’s sense of humor.
Very cool! I don't have the time to try this myself at the moment, but I wonder if adding lateral supports on the outside and removing the brace in the centre would make the flow more uniform.
The lateral supports could possibly be wing shaped to give it a push start. Then the output shaft should be the same diameter at the cone openings, giving a lot of surface area for magnets.
For an omni directional you may want an external guide deflector, either in four or eight vanes, coming out in a bit of a pseudo rosette, (other descriptions may cause issue as seen from the top), such that fluid movement is guided to push to single direction of spin, as well as no countering forces.
the conical tesla turbines design looks similar to of a self inflating valve..which kinda makes sense .. the two elements of tesla turbine withat that darwin base generatorstacked almost seem to create that toroidal effect ..which is also making big advances in blades for drones and shallow boat props... ..very intriguing series ..great fun . cheers
Thanks for what you do! I recently found this channel, and I'm really enjoying the approach that you take to your projects. Always interesting!
Robert, the cylinder version will work the best.
But you have to enter the air into the outermost slot close to tangential, through a few narrow ports spaced around the outside, and step it down to each smaller slot in series as it goes back to the other end backwards and forwards till exiting at the core.
A larger version of this would be an amazing way to drive a sailboat. Omni directional capture. Just amazing!
This sounds like the already existing Magnus effect rotor ships that use the Magnus effect for propulsion!
@@mookiemorjax I was thinking along those lines. This would be lighter and could power electric or hydraulic drive. Just put it a top the mast and you're good to go. Of course it would have to be larger.
I am just amazed at your ZEST for learning and teaching others Robert. Can you say NOBEL PRIZE fella ???.
lolol - I am glad you enjoy it mate
Waiting on the next video Love the way you approach this no attitude no BS.
Fantastic work Rob! 👍🏴🇬🇧
Can't wait! Your laugh is infectious! 💜💜💜🙏🙏🙏
Spacing between profiles is critical, informed by the "boundary layer" - an emergent microscopic property - and the viscosity of the fluid entering the Tesla Turbine.
You'll need to tinker to get it right, might not be possible to 3D print if the goal is highest efficiency but I certainly hope you can achieve a radical result.
@@the_one_eyed_man_is_cursed
A radial result lol
Really enjoying this and it all makes sense, but it is above my pay grade.
Respect from Africa 🇿🇦
Hello Robert, I recently found you. Enjoying TNT immensely.
The physics behind Tesla's Turbine is very different to flow dynamics - suggest you take another look at what the old genius found. You'd learn, for instance, why the cylindrical print hadn't a chance of working. Keep on challenging our ingrained assumptions on your search for a hyper-efficient Energy Grail, I'll follow with vicarious enthusiasm.
Thanks for sharing this, fascinating stuff as usual!
As with all rotational energy generation you will need to gear the system to stop overspin. An external cylinder could be lowered or raised to close off wind access to each cone allowing the system to be completely smothered during storms or for maintenance.
Interesting concept, I think this would be better used as a tesla pump, but would be super interesting to see it in a casing. I have to disagree about the high pressure. I recently got 888 mph periphery speed with my 3 inch tesla turbine going 99,400 rpm on less then 3 psi. This was with the boiler and condenser being void of atmospheric pressure.
Robert you are a modern day Thomas Edison..thank you for all your work and for taking time to share
Add blades to the supports canted so that each one helps form a 4 sided blade running along the length of the turbine.
Greatly enjoying as always Robert, been keeping up with all videos.wondered if a rough or dimpled surface would grip more air to get better turning force for the same input over a smooth surface. Fantastic your free uploads, these printers seem a great way to do complex shapes For many projects. All the best Rob.
Shame Luke didn't get the battery for twingo.
This is why I like you Robert! You think very similarly to invention concepts that have been bouncing around in my head for decades! You have the skills to make them reality though. I much enjoy watching your process.
oh wow - cheers mate
spiral grooves was exactly where my mind went when you were talking about the cd's at 2:32 after seeing the path of fluid line on the diagram
Love it! 👍
Thank you! Cheers!
I like watching technical videos, even if I don't understand, I can still learn something!! ✌️👍
me too
My first idea was to corkscrew the disc's after watching the marble circle the funnel.
I like your your experiment. Thanks for knowledge.
thats delightfull. brilliant observation.
You personify all that is right with humans. Building up the ability of hundreds of thousands of people to become able to improve the understanding of important tech for themselves and their communities. You reach millions of people like this. In a very good way! You rule! Genius at work for nothing but helping humanity progress. The world will be massively improved by your influence on evolution a thousand years from now. Thank you so much for your invaluable contributions to a brighter future!
I Just love your positivity ...
Now make the rim of each one smaller and smaller as it stacks so that it can catch wind not only from the side but from the front as well in the shape of a tangent ogive.
I like your thinking!
Honestly I was amazed to see those funnels actually turn!
I wish I was as happy as you seem to be. Enjoy your show no end m8. 🙂
so if you combine the tesla turbine hyperbolic funnel with the darwin funnel, you could mount the darwin funnel to the top of the waters turbine and increase the effect of each part? or would they subtract efficiency from the other parts?
I was thinking something similar, though also that something to watch out for is, in these quick tests the moving air seems directed at one half of the tesla turbine, which wouldn't be happening in free wind. There, I think the wind would be blowing across both sides, giving virtually equal torque but in opposite directions so essentially cancel each other out.
A possible remedy for that would be ( what I'm calling ) a Diagonal Tesla Wind Wall where a series of Tesla Turbines are staggered by ( about ) the radius apart, that way each one ( mostly ) blocks the negative torque to the one behind it. The air exiting the individual Tesla Turbines could be routed together to turn an additional single, more conventional, turbine.
Thank you for mentioning it
Just Incase you didn't know the Tesla Turbine doesn't need to operate at high RPM's to achieve results, the efficiency increases as the surface area increases and the gaps between the blades decrease. Tesla also filed a patent for an upgraded turbine number 186,082.
Correct its an electrostatic turbine not a friction turbine as commonly stated.
@@off6848 I'm familiar with its use providing more torque inversely to the speed of the fluid between the plates but not its function as an electrostatic turbine, explain please?
@@JenkoRun Glad you asked because I think a lot of pop science channels get this wrong on purpose to discredit Tesla and his designs.
“I have been working at this a long time. Many years ago I invented a pump for pumping mercury. Just a plain disk, like this, and it would work very well. ‘All right,’ I said, ‘that is friction.’ But one day I thought it out, and I thought, ‘No, that is not friction, it is something else. The particles are not always sliding by the disk, but some of them at least are carried along with it. Therefore it cannot be friction. It must be adhesion.’ And that, you see, was the real beginning.
“For if you can imagine a wheel rotating in a medium, whether the fluid is receiving or imparting energy, and moving at nearly the same velocity as the fluid, then you have a minimum of friction, you get little or no ‘slip.’ Then you are getting something very different from friction; you are making use of adhesion alone. It’s all so simple, so very simple.
This is the greatest of my inventions"
-Nikola Tesla (September 18th, 1911)
The fluid that’s just off the surface of the disc face is statically adhered to said disc face and never moving relative to the disc.
The torque to the disc comes from shear stress cohesion forces within the motive fluid trying to move through itself.
The shear force is transferred through the motive fluid itself to the layer of fluid that is statically adhered to the disc faces, and then through the virtue of molecular adhesion the discs are pulled along with it, or Vice versa the discs pull the fluid along with it.
The only friction involved in this is that of internal friction within the fluid against moving through itself, ie Cohesive viscous forces.
"A very important key part of the operating functions that everyone gets wrong. This is not a mechanical turbine in any shape or form.
Since all molecular adhesion and internal viscous forces within a fluid are governed by electron orbital interactions, this makes the Tesla turbine a purely electronic turbine." - Charlie Solis Tesla Turbine inventor of the Tesla Turbine jet engine"
Another myth is that the disc and motive fluid materials don't matter but since it works by electrostatic adhesion they do matter ideally you want your disc surface to phillic towards your motive fluid.
"The Difference Between Adhesion and Cohesion:
The tendency of two or more different molecules to bond with each other is known as Adhesion
Whereas the force of attraction between the same molecules is known as Cohesion.
The adhesion forces can be one of the results of electrostatic forces which are exerted on different substances.
The cohesive forces are associated with Van der Waals forces and hydrogen bonding that cause liquids such as water to withstand the separation.
When a glass surface is poured with water, both adhesive and the cohesive forces act on the surface of the water.
A strong adhesive force tends the liquid to spread over the surface whereas a strong cohesive force is responsible for the formation of water droplets on the water surface.
The adhesion and cohesion forces, both vary in their strengths.
For example, if cohesion forces between the water molecules are stronger than that of the adhesion forces between them, then the individual molecules will attract towards each other thus resulting in settling.
In the other case, if the adhesion forces of the water surfaces are stronger than that of the cohesion forces of the water molecules, then the water tends to disperse.
Plastic substrates are difficult to bond because they are "hydrophobic" (not naturally wettable), possess poor surface wettability (i.e., low surface energies), nonpolar-inert structures and possess poor surface-chemical functionality. " - Charlie Solis
So as much as this old guy has heart he's really not studying the primary sources for how these things function I believe by using 3d printed plastics he's really just building a slip machine.
@@off6848🦾🤓👨🔬
@@JenkoRunfrom Dr. Tesla Talks Of Gas Turbines. ““I have been working at this a long time. Many years ago I invented a pump for pumping mercury. Just a plain disk, like this, and it would work very well. ‘All right,’ I said, ‘that is friction.’ But one day I thought it out, and I thought, ‘No, that is not friction, it is something else. The particles are not always sliding by the disk, but some of them at least are carried along with it. Therefore it cannot be friction. It must be adhesion.’ And that, you see, was the real beginning. “For if you can imagine a wheel rotating in a medium, whether the fluid is receiving or imparting energy, and moving at nearly the same velocity as the fluid, then you have a minimum of friction, you get little or no ‘slip.’ Then you are getting something very different from friction; you are making use of adhesion alone. It’s all so simple, so very simple. “This is the greatest of my inventions,” Tesla went on with great enthusiasm.“
Like this a lot Rob! Here is something that will make a difference in torque for you. Take sandpaper and scuff the surfaces of the cones. This will add even more drag as air flows over it. Would be easily done and be a very quick mod. This is how those rocks in the desert act as sails and move. Spirals would help, but not be as efficient as just making your surfaces rough. A smooth stone in a moving stream is less likely to move than a rough one. It's just a thought, thanks for all you do! Keep the thought provoking videos coming Rob!
Yet the skin of a shark is rough and a stingray all knobbly and you find if you sand a canoe or kayak hull it goes quicker through the water. Even golf balls to smoother through the air with little dimples all over them. These actually developed from smooth balls getting scuffed and players finding they could hit a scuffed ball further. All these suggest your scuffed surface would produce even less not more drag. I think it comes from the rough surface holding air or water molecules and the flowing air /water slipping over them easier than it would a different material.
@@Martin-se3ij You are talking about things moving through a liquid and not a fluid moving an object. Apples and oranges.
@@jamesross1003 But there you go-apples are smooth and oranges are dimpled so you just have to blow a hairdryer over some fruit and we'll have the answer.
@@Martin-se3ij Better yet, just actually test what we are talking about and find out the real answer instead of bantering back and forth. Want to find out about just such a supposition? Take 2 books interleave the pages of them alternating. Now find out how hard they are to pull apart. Now it is true that static plays a part, but the biggest factor on it is the surface of the paper pages causing friction. Think of the wind as one page and the cone surface as the other and use the law of equal and opposing forces to surmise what will happen. Once satisfied with that result, then actually go build the unit that Rob did and test it.
You've answered your own question. Smooth pages stick together, now try it with pages of rough paper and they are much easier to pull apart. Although there is an element of suction at work here. You might want to read Kevin Farrell's in depth book on drag.
I believe that creating the funnel shape will assist the working fluid in exiting the turbine, decreasing the residency time of the fluid pulling the spinning armature along with it, decreasing power and efficiency. You want flat discs so that the centrifugal force acts on the fluid to squeeze as much kinetic energy out of it before it exits. Of course, if you want as accurate info as possible, you should consult Charlie Solis who's established himself as having the most powerful/efficient Tesla Turbine on UA-cam.
Excellent avenue of inquiry. I have some knowledge of the tesla turbine and parabolas. I can see a lot of promise in this design.
Great to see the spirit of British Inventiveness lives on!
I wouldn't use spiral grooves. I suspect they would be wind/water velocity specific. Maybe a sand paper like roughened surface to increase the laminar friction between the air/water and the turbine across all wind/water velocity ranges?
I so look forward to your trips down the science rabbit hole. Thankyou for the hands that go where our minds have only wondered.
Tesla turbines are a favorite. He had a grasp of boundary layer physics before NACA had an airfoil.
All the horsepower derived i n a system dependent upon aerodynamic drag will be pulled out of a transition layer less than a thousand of an inch thick called the boundary layer. Tesla was brilliant enough to contrive a turbine where the close clearances between the discs allowed for back to back boundary layers that allow a zone of laminar flow in the center. The problem then became one of surface area. Big discs. Unfortunately, no materials available could withstand the primarily centrifugal forces induced by the high rpm required to make a steam turbine practical.
I’m with ya up to the severed fingertips. Great series!
lol - cheers mate
A tesla turbine can work with a single disk, cylinder, cone or even just a ball, as the defining function is the interaction between a fast moving medium, a surface and the drag created on/in the boundary layer(s).
More discs just mean more surface areas for boundary layers to happen. And you can nest discs/cones much easier in a way that the moving medium passes over the surface perpendicular to the axis, then you could with a cylinder.
Adding dimples/bumps to add speed/power could be a way to increase boundary layers and interaction with the moving medium.
Thank you and thank you!
love the new approach
What a teacher you could have been sir.
You get another example of this boundary layer at work when you spray water from a hose, but put your thumb over the hole to create a high-pressure fan, then stick a paint roller in the fan so the fan touches it barely at first. in a second or two it will spin up like a powerful flywheel
Stacking cones like a top with the center pulling a vacuum up the center adding the ventury effect.
The exhaust should feed back into the intake to allow for another layer of compound effects. Then low pressure is only a worry when rotation first begins.
I'm here for the journey on this one 👍👍👍👍👍
I wonder if you could remove the central shaft. Make the holes increasingly larger, as you get towards the "exhaust". Use the Venturi effect to lower pressure in the center.
Check out the eAhora M1P. I think there's the potential for practical perpetual motion.
I was wondering if you could use alternating dissociative metals for the inner turbine wheels and use an electrolyte solution for the propellant to create HHO gas while the turbine is running.
Of course the whole unit would have to be electrified though.
Loved this video!
It is an electric turbine. It works on the principle of electrostatic adhesion not friction as commonly stated.
Saw the stacked cones, made me think about Djed Pillars. New rabbit hole unlocked
This channel needs an addiction warning. Excessive faith in technology also deserves one. It's a delicate balance.
Just. Wanted to mention again….. thanks for numbering your productions …. ….
In CAD, create a cube, then extrude the shape of your cone from the top face of the cube.
Make sure that the inner most circular zone of the cone is also extruded to create a cylinder sitting proud of the tip of the cone.
Save this as a separate solid shape.
Once this has been done, create 2 x22mm square holes running all the way through the cubed base to the opposite face, from the left to the right edge.
Then, use the CAD slicing tool to slice through the front face in 22mm vertically orientated layers running from left to right.
Finally create 2 x 22mm x the left to right measurement across the lower edge of the front of the cube battons.
Save this as a separate file containing all the sliced shapes + the 2 X battons.
Have the job-lot sent to a plywood CNC company (maybe give them some advertising in exchange for the CNC time).
Once they have cut the basic shapes for you, have them stick each of the layers together such that they are slid over the battons to ensure correct positioning.
Once the solid shape has been created, have them use the solid shape file to have the curves milled to the required dimensions based on the solid object you first saved.
Then, it should be a simple enough task to fibreglass your cones using the former you've just created while using the 3D printer to create some spiraled separators to keep each layer the exact distance apart then need to be.
Could design the cones and spirals to slide over a plastic pipe during the construction phase to ensure that each layer is perfectly positioned during the layup and gluing phase too.
Even with waves it will make quite an impeller. So fun.
"... cutting the ends off your fingers."
Rob, that was nearly a negligent-homicide charge; for how hard I was laughing, I could have died!
Legend ❤️ this is what we need!
The hyperbolic cone loses friction after the apex of the curve. Parabolic cone will keep friction of the boundary layer right up to the edge.
LOL, I clearly remember the first time I took a significant chunk off the tip of a finger. I was holding a rather large vacuum AC motor, had the tip of my left index right next to an inner cooling van vent. Flipped it on after a rewire job, schlurp! Whacked it right off square.
cant think of the name of it but its the force that when 2 high trailered artics drive side by side on the motorway pulls the 2 vehicles together, and this was part of the thinkiing in teslas original turbine before he went on to using liquids, same thing happens to bikers overtaking artics on the motorway as the wind convection off the truck tries to pull passing motorcycles under the truck
Have you thought of shaping the cross arms to be like aircraft foils. So as the air spirals down into the centre, you might pick up extra pulling power by the cross arms being shaped. Don't know if it would make a difference. But why not try!
A while back, I conceptualized a Tesla Turbine SIMILAR to this, the key difference being that the torroidal funnels would lead to the opposite funnel on the other end. The idea being to create a Torsion Field engine that could convert gases into a plasma. Maybe someday I'll finish sketching it.
The wishing well funnel looks perfect for the iron powder heater from the video Perfect fuel.
Cool idea. Could you cut short pieces of rubber hose and place them in between the funnels? Using the natural bend, arch, in the hose as your grooves. Maybe 9 pieces super glued per funnel might do it. ?
Love the can do way you work 💚
A parabolic cone should work better than a disc. Because on a disk the fluid needs to take an abrupt 90° angle to leave the disk outlet, causing high pressure. On a cone the fluids should escape the system more freely.
Hello, Robert!
This is fun to think about. I'm looking around at an uninspiring day for energy collection. The breeze is very light, the sky is overcast, and there's no rain falling.
🤔
hiya mate
That's what short term storage is for ;) on the topic, I'm quite excited for Rondo Energy's heat storage battery!
@@mookiemorjax Ah, the "This too shall pass" play. 😁
Itll be very interesting to see the effect of spiral grooves
You have the vortex- great idea now maybe imbed a fibonacci spiral design -spiral pop out on it or groves on it. Grab more air? Or fluid? Cool fun work
Pressed steel out of steel sheets. As you could have a mold bend the pieces into shape as well as have the middle keyed so that you can have a shaft through the middle more secure. And you can use washers for spacing. this would require some sort of press and mold, but in the end the product would probably be eventually cheaper as you wouldn't have to run a 3d printer. Just pressurize a hydraulic cylinder over and over on a sheet of rolled stainless or other metal of your choice. Of course you'd have to make a specific mold for the shape.
I remember a talk about Tesla taking advantage of the binary layer a 2 mm gap between one plate and the other.
I am thinking this can be stamped, from sheet metal, in a press with a mold, for each section.
Spiral grooves make perfect sense.
I am surprised at how much that looks like the top of an Egyptian djed pillar. If that was on the top of a pillar and the pillar was hollow that would supply fresh air to any underground cavern or tunnel that was under the pillar. I thinking alone the lines of naturally driven mine ventilation. Thanks for the video, and the inspiration.
I'm wondering if adding some type of texture to the discs would improve the frictional effect of the air on the spin. Perhaps dimples like a golf ball has or possibly even something more geometrically efficient such as half moon shaped micro ridges. Just a thought.
You don't want friction. If you read Teslas patent he states it is not a friction device it works on electrostatic adhesion the regime of forces should move with eachother ideally not relative to eachother that causes slip which kills torque and increases friction which is why pop science dumbies keep building these to insane rpm's and destroying their turbine.
Increasing rpm only makes a slip machine that heats up and warps your motive fluid and disc should be moving as close to insync as possible.
Great stuff, as always. But I thought the main principal of the Tesla turbine was the working fluid exits through the central axis so that the fluid accelerates as it travels, since the area of the disk is constantly decreasing and the volume of the fluid remains a constant. Hence the insane RPMs generated by some of these devices.
The formula I heard was 3feet diameter disks separated by 0.4mm gap at 50K RPM and driven by dry steam. This combination was expected to be the highest efficiency except that the materials he tried couldnt handle the tensile stress and that made him pareback on the specs.
Had Tesla been able to work with graphene, he might have reached a marketable product, reliable enough for mass production.
Combined the two different systems possibly? (top and bottom ) The first system captures the wind from the top and forces it down. The exiting air holes go through a pipe of the same diameter and connect to a larger circular pipe as to not restrict the air flow🍃 ( think wheel and spokes )☸. With one exit pipe or two pipes opposite exiting connected directly to the flat tesla turbine. Just a thought since the wind is already captured and assuming it will not create to much back pressure or restrict the airflow for the top system.
It’s the Eddie’s at work, variable space would be ‘brake and acceleration’, but Tesla already knew this and used it in valves.
The intersection arrives when we leave the bench and work in three dimensions, not two in the ‘flat dimension, in practice’.
Robert, your enthusiasim and positivity is great! But it would help to explore the fluid dynamics a bit more, with mathematics so we can compare the different designs. Great work
Love this wind funnel concept you could simply add more funnels to capture more wind but still keeping it relatively Compact you could put something like this at the side of your house and you wouldn't even hear it compared to a blade or a fin turbine
A Tesla turbine principles is a friction between air molecules and a surface. Everything else is some misunderstanding of a hydrodynamics. Your high voltage line isolator works only because of a rough surface after a 3D printer.
3d printer reqd
Love your enthusiasm
Good man👊🏼
I had a kid's board game that had a funnel and used a marble rolling around as a timer, forget the name. I wonder... painter's funnels? They're conical. Spiral grooves... you don't need to do but a couple cm worth of rework. Use a NACA airfoil where the cones hold together, pointed in the direction you need the generator to go. A high-lift glider foil might be best. Stack lots more in an off-center spiral?
Fire alarm horns? Old PA speaker horns?
Alrighty, I just finished modifying the design to fit the shaft of a carbon fiber rod I had laying around in the lab. The printers just started, ruby red translucent PETg. I think I'll start with 6 discs. I have an aluminum sprocket as well that fits my cf shaft. I wish I had an anemometer handy to compare wind speed v. power output. What do you think for generator selection?
I am working on it mate - just having it hang out in open air will do not very much so it needs a case for sure
Cant wait to see a working prototype!