8 Worst Warfare Mistakes New Fantasy Writers Make
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- Опубліковано 25 чер 2024
- In this video, we delve deep into the often-overlooked aspects of warfare in fantasy storytelling. Unraveling the common mistakes, from unrealistic logistics to oversimplified battle tactics, we dissect how these errors detract from the narrative's credibility. Discover the crucial elements missing from epic battle scenes and understand why attention to details like logistics, realistic weaponry, and the aftermath of battles is vital in creating a truly immersive fantasy world.
If you're passionate about creating rich, believable fantasy worlds or simply love dissecting the intricacies of fantasy warfare, you'll find valuable insights to make your narratives more compelling and grounded.
If you find this video helpful, please consider giving it a like, and don’t forget to subscribe to the channel for more content on storytelling, worldbuilding and fantasy writing.
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00:00 Introduction
00:23 Unrealistic Logistics
02:48 Oversimplified Battle Tactics
04:42 Neglected Aftermath of Battles
06:37 Unrealistic Weaponry and Armor
07:51 Heroic Duels and Glorification of War
09:59 Magical Problems
12:06 Portrayal of Enemy Forces
13:57 Psychological Impact on Soldiers
Warfare in fantasy often gets the Hollywood treatment - but what about the realities of war that are overlooked? In the video, I've listed the ones that I've come across (and remembered) in over twenty years of writing and reading fantasy. But I'm sure that we have people here that can add to that in many ways - so I'd love to hear from others :)
Addressing your last point: as a combat veteran, I hate the overused acronym PTSD; the term is a very broad umbrella term. I have had to deal with both moral injury and hypervigilance, and those are two very different things and I like how at least this video addresses them differently. But here is the kicker, so spare me the pity: I can function in chaos. When I am at a restaurant, in the grocery store, or in the commute to work, my hypervigilant anxiety kicks in and I just cope. I enjoy skydiving, roller coasters, and I try hard to avoid driving like a complete asshole, because those things make the anxiety bleed away. However, twice now, back in mundanity after the wars, I have saved the lives of family and friends; when shit goes south my emotions shut down-because they must-and I act.
As for moral injury: something, something, pearls before swine (internet).
@@wingsclippedwolfI appreciate the insights given from your perspective.
As someone who cannot speak from your POV, I'm not going to argue for or against it of course. I'm glad to hear though that some of the things I've addressed seemed to have been done in a way that resonated with you as well.
The reason why I use PTSD myself as an accronym is because it is what most people use and understand.
Now that might very well not be accurate for everyone, and might even be something that should be framed differently in general, but these things probably will start on a professional level first, before migrating down to non psychology-professionals.
From a writer's perspective, I already tried to differentiate between a few things more clearly based on research (as you've pointed out) but beyond that I'm obviously not a psychologist myself.
@@TimeTinkerer Before PTSD, before "shell shock", there was "warrior's heart."
I don't remember where I read it (i.e. what book series) but I remember a quote "An army does not march far without shoes".
I love that quote. So simple, yet so accurate :)
Also googled it but couldn't find any direct refrences to it. I hope it is ok if I consider "stealing" that one for personal use :)
Also, "An army marches on its stomach."
@@BKPrice Yes, that one is true as well :)
S.M Stirling's Emberverse series is one of my favourites because it tries very hard (and succeeds) in grounding its storylines in real world conditions. Logistics, training, research, production, diplomacy, scouting, the list goes on and each one affects the narrative, adding layers and depth. Such a good series.
Also, an excellent video, thanks for posting 🙂
Thank you for the positive feedback, and also for leaving the reference to the Emberverse series. I wasn't familiar with it yet but put it on my watchlist to check out whenever I find time to read more again :)
Great video. You touch on a lot of great points. While I can agree that applying each of these elements can add wonderful depth to the story as it reflects a sense of realism. There still needs to be a careful balance of keeping certain elements at the forefront and others in the background.
This obviously comes down to the type of story you're trying to tell.
For example, I can't count the number of times that a "supply train" is mentioned in a war show or book, but unless the goal is to cut off said supply train, it is quickly passed over. But, in that same thought, I can understand why. Most people understand the need for food and weapons. The same could be said for the ravages of war. Soldiers get hurt and die. Town destroyed. Innocent lives are lost But, this is usually mentioned in passing such as during a "war meeting." Or depicted in a quick "ravage the town" scene then we move on.
So aside from the story you are trying to tell, I feel a key element is finding the balance between getting the significance of battle and war across to the reader, by effectively including these elements, but not to the point that the story becomes so over inundated with "background" information that it detracts from the story itself.
That said, like with much world creation, having a basic understanding of these elements, even if you don't bring them up in the story, will help to create a more effective story overall. Your reader will be less likely to question the accuracy of your battles and the effects of the war.
But, even to that point, as someone who has a very basic understanding of war and battles, I would have to readily admit that certain inaccuracies would go over my head.
Fully agreed here, these elements should not become a main point of the story unless there is a reason for it.
As with all the things I mention, whether that is in videos or on the community tab, it's always something to use conciously. Not everything needs full attention or even any at all. But you can only decide that for yourself if you're aware of it.
That's why I'm trying to be so deliberate in providing actionable examples in my videos as well. This way, viewers can hopefully more easily evaluate for themselves if a particular thing needs more attention on their end.
For me, the warfare parts will be critical in my current novel, both in terms of siege warfare as well as emotional character development. But it certainly isn't the case in every story :)
Agreed that you have to balance everything, but I'll push back a little bit more in that if you, as a writer, start obsessing about these details even a little bit that you'll fall into a rabbit hole you'll never climb out of. The truth is that 90% of fantasy battles (or any fictional conflicts) break down and become ridiculous and implausible almost immediately if you start applying real logistics. The amount of justification you have to reverse engineer into your story can make it a dull, bloated mess, when few care about those details. We'll happily breeze past how logistically an army of 100,000 orcs marched through The Dead Mountains in the middle of a brutal arctic winter. We just assume they figured it out. We don't care. Get to the cool part, the battle. The only time this sort of thing becomes a problem is when the writer clumsily draws attention to it. The writer should spend far more time going through their story looking for ways that it might make a reader wonder "hey... if it's called the Dead Mountains, why are there so many trees the use for fires??" Instead of spending useless pages explaining a supply train, simply minimize the description of them finding trees to cut down.
Again, I fully agree it's a balance, but for writers tackling this sort of thing for the first time, unless your goal is accuracy of minutiae, don't waste your time stressing about these details. 99% of readers will go along with your hand-waving away the more realistic buildup and aftermath of these epic conflicts.
@@VictorDiGiovanni Agreed. For the most part keeping these things in mind. On the off chance one or more of these elements play a crucial plot point. Otherwise keep it simple, focus on what keeps the story moving, and don't sweat the small stuff.
@@Dragonmoon8526 I'm currently writing a fantasy novel (aren't we all?) and I was indeed starting to sweat the small stuff, but then I read Ken Liu's "Grace of Kings" (great book, btw), and that book just burns through about a trilogy's worth of story/history/plot in one book, and I was especially paying attention to how much it established any of the many, many large-scale battles, and massive troop movements throughout the novel. The answer is, it NEVER did. It would just say, "10,000 troops massed on the shore of the river" or something incredibly vague and non-detailed like that. And it worked just fine! I was even hyper-attentive to how it was presenting this info, and I didn't give it a second thought. No worries about where they were getting this fresh batch of troops so soon after an even bigger defeat the previous chapter. Your brain just says, "Well, I guess they conscripted them from the population or something." Your brain only starts asking questions if something happens that NEVER happens that way. 10,000 troops showing up at a battle is something that has happened an infinite number of times throughout history, so I'll just assume it's something that can easily happen regardless of the story showing me the nuts and bolts step by step of how it happened, or the cultural aftermath of what conscripting 10,000 new troops from an already-reeling population would cause. So I've completely stopped worrying about all the logistical details of my story. If i've ever seen similar events play out in the real world, I'll feel safe in glossing over the minutiae in my world. All that said, if one of those bits of minutiae is perfect for deepening a part of my story, then GREAT. But do NOT concern yourself, new writer who is watching dozens of cool videos on how to build a world, on making sure every aspect of your world makes logical sense and that you've figured out how the garrisons of each of your world's militaries are housed and fed and how the battles affect the soldiers PTSD. If that's not what your book is about, then ignore all of it!
While I have moved away from Fantasy in my writing, I am writing a Sci-Fi that has a lot of those aspects to it. Supplying, manning and repairing a ship. How does a young captain with knowledge but lacking experience handle combat (there is lore for why this person is captain, mainly a "science experiment") and how does a more experience crew handle under their leadership. Post combat operations. There is also a battle for self independence by the MC. Local (system) politics and galaxy-wide politics.
Absolutely, a lot of these aspects can be transferred to Science Fiction as well, which I love too. I'm just more of a fantasy writer myself, so I tend to keep things within that context.
While sometimes the differences are almost neglectable, this isn't true for everything so I'm trying to stick to what I know best :)
Good points, all. My fav is the aftermath of victory...that's always ignored. You've won. Now what? You have to run the Big Machine...and now you will become the guy you just defeated. The logical consequences of magic...you can animate skeletons? What's to stop you from using them for cheap labor? Skeleton contractors, digging ditches for the King...Grandma's old bones, rattling down the road with shovel on her bony shoulder.... Or the logical consequences of super-steel (mithril, etc)...now all your wood cutters have tools edged in super-steel. They can fell more timber than ever before. The price of wood products plummets, the forests are depleted.
Oh, and SPEARS were the prime weapon of ancient days.
Some great questions raised for sure, appreciate the input. Especially the part about "You have to run the Big Machine" is something I didn't get into very much in this video while certainly being important as well.
Winning ist just the beginning of something new after all :)
Fantasy has a huge fanatical obsession with swords. Agree, spears were the king of battlefields for millennia.
@@als3022 When it comes to swords, I'm definitely part of that "obsession". Probably got too indoctrinated by western pop culture over the years :)
Even got the sword of Balian of Ibelin from the movie Kingdom of Heaven behind me and the legendary Thunderfury sword as well as the broken Narsil sword from Lord of the Rings tatooed on my forearms :)
I agree that these are good suggestions to help with writing, but I think calling them 'mistakes' will encourage people to avoid them at all costs, which is perhaps not what you were intending here?
For example the battle for Minas Tirith in the Return of the King would probably fail on at least 5 of these 8. Logistics, Battle Tactics, Heroic Duels, Magical Problems (ghost army), and portrayal of the enemy forces. Clearly these weren't all mistakes, as the battle is still epic and still feels real within the context of the setting.
Very good video though, you make good points.
Thank you for leaving the reply, and I'm very happy to hear you found some value in the video.
In terms of the title, this plays a bit into the unfortunatey game of psychology and the "packaging" of videos on UA-cam.
I do agree, that not all of these points need to be followed as strict rules - you can play with them and shouldn't create a narrative solely based on mechanical decisions about what to avoid.
It can be hard sometimes though in video titles to get the right point across in a few words without the emotional charge that some words like "mistakes" have.
Its the same with video length. I often would like to say a lot more about certain things, but then you end up with videos 60+ minutes long which then again can be tricky (or work out greatly, depending on the niche on UA-cam of course) :)
The movie is simplifying a lot in an already very long movie. But that the Army of the Dead just Deus Ex Machinas the Battle on Pellennor fields is actually dragging the story down.
In the Books, the Army of the Dead wasn't even able to physically hurt anyone. Aragorn only used them for psychological warfare to gather forces surrounding the Anduin. By the time he shows up with an Army made up of Humans at Minas Tirith, the Forces of Rohan and Gondor have already locked Mordor in a stalemate and the Army of the Dead was already disbanded. This way, the victories and sacrifices before his arrival actually have meaning.
@@TheSorrelThe Army of the Dead is definitely one - of not the - most annoying thing for me in an otherwise amazing trilogy, yes.
This was so incredibly badly woven into the story and battle, I still cannot believe how this made it past editing, beta watchers etc.
@@TimeTinkerer Another annoying thing about the ghost army (since we're complaining) is that they actually make Isildur the most powerful character in the setting.
Think about it.
He was able to create an immortal/undefeatable army simply by 'cursing' them when they betrayed him. That's crazy powerful. Sauron would wet himself. Even if you say that Isildur used the ring to do this, then... you know... how? Because Sauron created the ring and is its master, and he sure can't create immortal armies with a word, even at the height of his power.
The ring wraiths are the closest equivalent Sauron's got, and there's only 9 of them, they run away if you set them on fire, they have to use mounts to get around, and they're scared of water...
Whereas the army of the dead is like 10,000+ can run faster than a galloping horse (including over water), can phase through solid objects, and can only be harmed by Aragon wielding his specific, one-of-a-kind sword.
By film cannon Isildur is more powerful than Sauron, and this really annoys me.
Tell me you have never read RotK without....
Logistics
Theoden could move fast and light because Denethor had prepared his larder
Battle Tactics
Gondor fought a campaign of Defense in depth from Ithilien to Osgiliath the Echor Rammas and the Wall of Minas Tirith
Denethor used the Cavalry to secure the retreat masterful if not brilliant
The WK made a well planned double lounge from his bases
well prepared was his crossing of the river.
his flank was guarded by fortifications on the road from Rohan
his assault force followed the exploitation force of the haradrim
Theoden used local guides to outflank those roadblocks
then he empowered his subcommanders in the attack on the army of Mordor
There was no Ghost army on the Pelennor
Magical Problems
the dread of the Nazgul versus the Light of Gandalf
Heroic Duels
Theoden against the Chieftain of the Haradrim
Marry and Eowyn against the WK
Almost all pre-modern armies fed themselves by foraging, i.e. robbing the locals. You NEVER see this in movies. A moving army would have a significant chunk of its man power scattered around it, looting all the local villages and farms for food to feed themselves (and anything shiny that catches their eye). You can maybe supply your army without foraging in your own lands, but the moment you get into enemy territory, its foraging.
Good point, if I remember correctly, the TV show "Rome" did portray this to some extent but its been a long time since I watched it :)
Storycrafting the after of war is something hard for many to truly ponder, I've found. I had a friend that wanted to write a short play about a biker with war related PTSD. He came to me because I'm a veteran, have a many layered type of PTSD and used to council other veterans.
He asked me questions and we discussed for over 12 hours that day and he came away with a deeper understanding of several people he always just saw as jerks, and a deflated ego when it comes to how easy realistically writing some things can be.
Realistic writing doesn't always have to be hard, that is true - but sometimes you need outside perspectives to find the right angle and understanding first, such as you were able to gave your friend. That's also why I keep believing that you never should stop learning, there is always something more to take away from somewhere and improve your own craft :)
Thank you for this video as it will help me with my first attempt at writing a fantasy. I thought with my military experience in Afghanistan would help me in my writing but you have made me rethink some of my ideas
I'm glad to hear there was some value for you to find in the video :) Don't see this as strict rules though. This is just the attempt of writing advice from a single writer to other writers who think that the advice resonates with them.
One of the beauties of writing is that you can approach it from almost countless angles and still create an amazing story. It all depends on the writer and their audience :)
If you want a series that addresses all of these excellently, I recommend the Powder Mage Trilogy by Brian McClellan.
Just finishing the first book. Rather interesting setting even if I like the side characters more than the main protaganist.
Thank you for that note. Never heard about it but the title alone makes me curious already. Added to my watch list :)
7:54 A book about owls managed to do that better than most books I've read.
I tried to find that book to consider putting it on my watch list but weren't able to find something that seemed to be the right fit.
Any chance you could share the author as well? :)
@@TimeTinkerer Kathryn Lasky, and the Books are Guardians of Ga'Hoole.
@@DokuroHeartvoreAh, so it was those after all. I saw the movie back when it came out but never read the books. Might give this a shot if I can find the time - thank you :)
Btw, I loved the movie! :D
After rings of power im convinced some authors need a creative writing class with critiques
When it comes to TV Shows, I'm sometimes wondering how much went wrong in the actual writing process and how much was simply changed / poorly executed upon when it comes to the acting and directing.
In general though, Rings of Power unfortunately wasn't really a masterpiece, that I'm afraid I have to agree on (as much as I wanted to love it).
"Consider the realism of your armor and weapons"
*Me already basing everything on Hallstatt and Le Tene styles* : These swords talk and maile over bright plaid is default warrior fashion.
That sounds like some deep historical research and should probably suffice to ensure a realistic portrayal in the context of a fantasy story :)
@@TimeTinkerer Its a mixture of writing what I know and what I want. I've always had an interest in archaeology concerning celtic peoples because none of us really wrote stuff down until christianization. Most pop fiction either ignores celtic stuff as source material or if they do it's bastardized beyond recognition.
So the mundanity of using archaeologically recorded finds is ironic because they themselves are fantastical. They're perfect unused set pieces. Musical horns with skull resonance in the shape of boar and dragon. Anthropomorphic sword handles. Helmets with raven, boar, other things atop.
I never thought about realism beyond "is it Celtic?" simply because I want a fantasy where gods and magic is real and Iberia, Gaul, Prydain, etc never fell to the Romans thus resulting in unification.
So it is good to hear that it will have a vague realism about it lol
@@morrigannibairseach1211I love the approach :) Especially as someone who initially considered studying archeology but then got a master's degree in history instead :)
You even gave me some inspirations for my own world/novel, so thanks for that ^^
@@TimeTinkerer Thanks and I'm really glad I gave you some inspiration from this! I really want people to realize how fantastic a source material Celtic stuff is.
Like the common conception of druid is boring. A forest hippy who is nice to everything. To me a druid is a brutal iron age advisor to the king and tells warriors about reincarnation. The type of person who, when you bring him the head of a Roman general and the gold he had, will boil the flesh away, open the skull and plate it and the cap with gold to make drinking vessels. True story.
The type of people who will trick the Romans into participating in human sacrifice to celtic gods for a victory against Rome. By praying upon the pyre when the Romans come to slaughter them. The druidesses lighting the pyres when the blood was spilled. While miles and miles away Boudica rises. Alleged true story by Romans.
The type of person who tells warriors how to embalm severed heads with pine resin. We finally have archaeological evidence for decapitated heads preserved in pine resin! Granted they were placed on the walls, not in boxes in a home, and we don't know if they were warriors or criminals. But it is a step towards corroborating Roman accounts of Celts being head hunters.
The type of people who, allegedly, built giant wicker men to burn POWs and animals as sacrifice to the gods.
To me a druid is an old man with angry bushy eyebrows and a fumanchu mustache. The back half of his head shaved. He'd disembowel a person to prophecy. Someone comfortable with excarnation of the dead.
Not to say they were evil. It's just the reality of them can be fairly grim, gritty, and bloody. They were humans with power in a sophisticated bronze and iron age culture.
Though there's also been a challenge to the idea that Celtic started with the Hallstatt culture because we have Celtic inscriptions far away that predate Hallstatt. An interesting implication may be that some of the Sea Peoples were celts.
"To me a druid is a brutal iron age advisor to the king and tells warriors about reincarnation. The type of person who, when you bring him the head of a Roman general and the gold he had, will boil the flesh away, open the skull and plate it and the cap with gold to make drinking vessels."
That certainly is a different type of Druid than most known portayals, yes :)
I do understand the allure of a harsh and brutal setting though. It allows for a different type of storytelling and complexity in characters.
This is something I'm currently putting a lot of effort into as well, which inevitably has led to a world full of dangers and themes like survival, suffering and exploration.
This is why I liked the Belgariad series. While not completely realistic, it actually talked about supply lines, the morality of glorifying war to recruit a bunch of uneducated peasants to fight a war they will probably not survive, training and equipping said peasants, various camp followers, the brutality of battle, dealing with the stress and cleanup of bodies afterwards, etc..
Kinda surprising for a coming of age fantasy story.
I wasn't aware of that series yet but a quick look made it sound quite interesting. Already added to my watchlist - definitely trying to find time to give this a shot - thank you :)
A classic. Especially loved how they included transporting their warships overland
@@TimeTinkerer It has a sequel series called The Mallorean as well as two side prequel/sequal (it is two very old people telling their story from their perspective after the sequel series so it has spoilers) books called Belgarath the Sorcerer and Polgara the Sorceress if you are interested in those as well.
@@jjhh320 Ahh, yes, the Chereks and their love of their ships...
The world needs more writers like Simon Scarrow.
Appreciate the note. I'm not familiar with his work so far but will definitely check it out when I find the time :)
I find that not enough weight is given to the final topic, the emotional and mental aspects of war, or even within smaller scale conflicts.
People are, indeed, a warlike species but require a significant enough reason to commit to war in full. What are the driving forces that bring your cultures to this level of conflict, and what propaganda are the soldiers fed to keep them on the battlefield?
I especially approve when thought is given to the common soldier. To often, the focus is narrowed on what people consider to be the important figures, forgetting that no single person can achieve victory alone. These commanders have to keep their troops in line, and the larger that group becomes, so do the troubles that assail morale.
You are right that it could have been interesting to discuss the events leading to warfare in the first place a bit more as well, yes. Depending on the culture, warfare isn't something that comes easy and just getting to this state in the first place, opens up great opportunities for storytelling too, especially in the realms of character development and worldbuilding.
Appreciate the comment here, as I'm sure others will too :)
I can only recommend the Gate Fanfiction called Terror Bellum Decus Pacem
It is all about napoleonic warfare, logistics, and all of it in a desperate fight of survival in a hostile fantasy world.
Sounds interesting, will give it a read if I can find time to squeeze it in somewhere :)
Great Video. Been following this channel for a bit and love all of these videos. Currently working on my own novel. Great videos!
Thank you - I really was looking forward to creating this one, and it's very motivating to see these positive comments, very much appreciated :)
My biggest issue is that its always medieval, or what people think medieval warfare was like. Honestly most fun I have is when I am describing a more revolutionary war battle and how is linear combat influenced by magic, or something along those lines. And what is the best way to use magic users in battle? I always thought the biggest thing that they miss is that magic users are actually best used for communication. Not flashy magic where they are in the front lines, but in back with the commanders helping with making sure magical messages get to each commander in the army. WHy risk my magic users when I can be using them to make sure my rangers are ambushing their cavalry when they move through the woods?
Ha, glad to see someone else think of "communication" in the context of magic and fantasy battles. That is something that's going to play a role in my current story too :)
A good example of using magic logically in a war is the anime The Saga of Tanya the Evil. There they actually use magic somewhat like technology, with things like flying mages being used as artillery spotters.
I'm not familiar with animes very much myself, but the approach certainly sounds interesting. Appreciate the reference here and will see if I cannot find some time to at least do some preliminary research about it :)
Enjoy 😁@@TimeTinkerer
using magic as technology is the usual problem in using magic like tech
Yea, I think it comes down to the hard / soft magic systems. Some people like hard magic systems where the magic works mostly within very set limits (e.g. in Name of the Wind), while other people prefer soft magic systems like Lord of the Rings. I personally prefer hard magic systems, but both are good.@@thodan467
That there are so many comments agreeing with the sentiments here is heartening for me. A lot of these elements are meant to be core to the story I've been focused on for a year..
This is great! As I'm writing my fantasy novel, it's great to watch these videos and get ideas. Glad I discovered your channel!
Curious about your advise, I struggle with pacing in my story because I feel that the reader may get impatient if there isn't any action. But I also feel like taking time to develop the environment and world is important, so I'm wondering- what would you do? Would you find a balance, or take time to develop even if it becomes a little long?
I'm glad to hear that you found some value in the video - thank you for taking the time to leave that feedback :)
In terms of pacing - I can of course just share my own opinion, which can be different for any reader or writer. But personally, I do not see "action" as the only element that allows for a proper representation of "something happening" to keep the reader engaged.
An interesting dialogue, an emotional reminiscence of a character's past, a journey through a mysterious setting that creates anticipation of danger but doesn't have any real action....and many more things can keep a reader turning the pages.
I would always avoid worldbuilding for the sake of just dumping world info. Worldbuilding should be woven smoothly into the narrative. So for me it is always a matter of picking the details that fit into the exact scene. If they don't add to that scene somehow (flair, criticial details, emotion, ...), then it usually is unnecessary information the reader doesn't need to know yet at that time.
Hope this helps somehow :)
@@TimeTinkerer Thank you for your thoughts! I agree, so it's nice to hear that I'm not alone in that. I'll have to make sure to avoid dumping world info. It's always exciting when you have something cool you'd like your readers to know- so sometimes it's hard to wait, but worth it to create an even better experience and world :D
I really love the final battle in the Witcher Books.
Its not a heroic last stand of good vs. evil, where the Hero defeats the villain. In Fact, the Hero isn't even there.
Its a horrible Battle that was setup by an underground cabale that thinks the only thing to end the War is a bloody battle that will traumatise all nations into seeking peace.
It was told from all kinds of perspectives, low ranking soldiers, Healers, Rangers and Generals. And when its finally over, it dwells on the aftermath of each of them
My favourite part is when a convoy of people disabled by the war meets Soldiers from the other side, who have been disbanded and dropped by their empire. They are starving, so the hurt soldiers share their food with their former enemies. It was really touching.
I personally only know the games and the tv series which they unfortunately completely butchered (which is ridiculous considering the amazing Geralt they had in Henry Cavill).
Definitely need to get around reading the books at some point :)
@@TimeTinkerer The Show is fine, just read the books.
I'm glad this is a real feel good video to me since your points are undoubtedly valid, and, after double-checking, they are present in my books. Hence, you gabe me the strength to carry on! I am not so far from the end, 5 books written out of seven, 3 ublished and a mid seller success, but only in France for the moment, alas!
Sounds like you've been at it quite persistent and consistent, that deserces credit by itself - and kudos to the "mid seller success" too :)
Glad you've found some motivation/support through the video and best of luck with the rest of the series :)
Awesome as always thanks
I'm glad that you liked it, thank you :)
Seriously, this Channel is underrated, its asking and answering the Questions that matter. 😊
3:21 Murim Cultivation Genre to me scratches all these itches, great examples are Death God, Fist Demon of Mount Hua, and Chronicles of the Demon Faction. Gathering Supplies, Protecting those Supplies, and military strategies.
Thank you for the kind words. I just started out with this channel 2.5 months ago, and we've already gathered a great group of creatives here.
I'll certainly do my best to keep improving and attract more people that can gain and add value :)
@@TimeTinkerer Please Continue Your Great Work Wise One. ☺️
Don't forget about convoluted and complex battle plans in fantasy. And how fast orders are delivered.
These are indeed other great things to keep an eye out for, yes. Thanks for the added value :)
You emphasize oversimplified tactics; I would warn even more against over-complex tactics. Especially when an army is composed of peasant levies like the Anglo-Saxon fyrd, not professional soldiers, they’re not likely to be able to carry out any maneuver more complex than “advance,” “withdraw,” and “halt” without getting hopelessly tangled up with each other or out of line. A typical feudal warfare obligation was just 40 days a year - sixty at the most - so there was no time for the ten-week “basic training” course modern draftees or volunteers get. More professional soldiers like the Swiss mercenary pikemen, Roman legionaries, or medieval knights might be able to carry out more complex flanking, wheeling, pincer, or feigned retreat maneuvers. Still, a knight’s training was largely in small-scale combat, like jousts and melees. There were no military schools; there were a few military texts like Vegetius, but they were expensive and not every knight even knew how to read and write. Small wonder that Vegetius said that an army committed to battle is out of its general’s control - a fact that modern video games often forget, making units of hundreds or thousands of men react instantly and obediently to the click of a mouse button.
The other points are good. Tolkien was particularly good about the aftermath of battles, as when Bilbo discovers that victory is a “very gloomy business.” Regarding duels and their glorification of war, remember that duels of champions were actually fairly common in ancient warfare, but they were often pointless. The Iliad is particularly clear about this. The Greek champion Achilles and the Trojan champion Hector meet in glorious single combat, Hector is slain and his body dragged around the city - and nothing is settled. The whole war has to be decided by a wily trick with a wooden horse, which happens offstage, and in which Achilles is not even involved.
Some great insights / additions here that I don't disagree with. Thank you for leaving those, I'm sure others will find this helpful too when checking the comments :)
Kind of in defence of inaccurate portrayal of weapons in armour: While I agree with a lot of what you discussed in the video, one thing that attracts me to fantasy is the bombastic and dare I say “cool” portrayal of certain weapons and armour. I mean one of the main selling points of fantasy (for me at least) is that it’s not, or doesn’t have to be realistic. Magically infused armour, demonic or godly weapons, fictional metals to forge badass armour. So while I do think that practicality and realism should hold sway over some elements, most notably the majority of female armour design (especially when it goes against their character), I still think that the rule of cool can and should also hold some sway over the aesthetics of a fantasy world.
I'm not going to disagree here. Especially when there are real visuals (games, movies, ...) I'm certainly part of the target audience for "cool stuff".
The reason why I added it within the video (as with almost everything I present in my videos) is to bring it to the forefront as a reminder for people to make a concious decision about.
I do not write my stories in a way either that looks at these 8 aspects and tries to follow them in a rigid manner to ensure 100% historical accuracy. If I wanted to focus on this, I'd write historical fiction not fantasy.
I do think though that breaking realism is done in a much better way when it is done conciously because it leads to a more logical coherence within the setting or accepts something unrealistic in order to create a particular emotion/experience :)
thank you for the video! it was amazing! maybe I haven't read enough books but I think the Lightbringer saga of Brent Weeks and the Gotrek and Felix saga from warhammer fantasy do a great protrayal of warfare considering these points.
Currently in the middle of writing book 2 of what I hope will be a successful fantasy series. I put great effort into realism, it's something I plan to build my marketing on.
Best of luck with that series :)
Not pure fantasy, and appart the magical warfare, the anime *Vinland Saga* respect all of your points to a *T.*
If you haven't watched it, please do. You will not regret it.
Thank you for the reference. I'll try to find some time somewhere in the future (looking at all other to-dos and the growing list of amazing references, both written and visual) :)
Some might see this as nothing big or it ruins the setting. Fantasy settings never taking advantage of innovations that existed in the Middle Ages in real life. In my opinion writers don't understand That the Middle Ages is when warfare slowly began to undergo a revolution. Blackpowder weapons like muskets and Cannons were invented during the Late Middle Ages and are not out place in a setting and could open opportunities in a fantasy like enchanted or blessed ammo, muskets and cannons.
Yes, there are things beyond the typical portrayal of medieval european fantasy that still would draw inspiration from the actual middle ages.
By the way, I have no idea where this came from, but somehow your comment gave me the idea of a "sentient cannon".
I'll put that on my list of notes, who knows, maybe that is something I'll use somewhere in the future :)
They also forget that the Middle Ages were 1,000 years long. The difference between a Viking of the 9th century and a knight of the 14th century is immense. Their worlds were COMPLETELY different.
Great video .
Thank you - really appreciate you taking the time for this kind of positive feedback :)
So glad I stumbled upon your channel
Thank you for taking the time to leave that positive feedback - glad to hear you found some value throughout the video :)
@@TimeTinkerer I was shocked to find you're channel was relatively new because all of your advice from what I've seen has been extremely helpful and well put, keep it up!
@@TheDragonRuler- Thank you :) Trying to work on this as much as I can, and will continue to improve and add value :)
:) Excellent.
Thank you for taking the time to leave that feedback - glad to see that you found some value in the video :)
While hardly fantasy (if we're not counting significant characters cleaving metal armor and flesh alike in twain like wet tissue paper and such), the _Kingdom_ manga has most of these points covered at some point or another.
I'm unfortunately not familiar with that one myself, but appreciate the reference nontheless. If I can find some time, I'll definitely check it out for some inspiration :)
“New writers” old writers do it just as much what we standadise in war in fantasy books is mostly mistakes that go over the uneducated on wars heads so easily that they get repeated so often we think thats how war should go
Absolutely, there certainly are older writers as well who still do lots of mistakes. When it comes to these kind of compilation videos though, I tend to feel that they reach a more suitable audience when addressing writers that are just starting out or in general feel a bit more unsure about their own creative work still.
So its more of a UA-cam packaging thing, whereas overall, I do agree with your note 100% :)
Finally somebody taking into consideration such kind of points; from somebody attempting in his humble works to do that a big bravo
Thank you for taking the time to leave these kind words - this is really appreciated. Especially from someone who just started this channel 2.5 months ago :)
@@TimeTinkerer my deepest congratulations for that, not an easy task nor an immediately rewarding one. Best wishes for your channel
This has added things for me to think about as I write in science fantasy and have found the wider political side an interesting thing to explore but very much marginal to the main story, but what always bugged me in many stories is the lack of logistics and reality of human bodily needs (where are the toilets in most space ship designs, managing water, food and air on a space ship). I tend to write from the viewpoint of a junior member of the ship's crew often a rating rather than an officer (although many get promoted to officer as time goes on). I am more interested in the events in sickbay, hydroponics or logistics than on the bridge with the interactions in the crew and responses to external events being far more interesting than big battles (although they happen and PTSD or cPTSD is a thread which runs tough many stories). I have found writing from the point of individual mostly junior crew members over decades within their careers more interesting than the meta-narrative which links the stories together (it is fun though to have stories converge on a big event and explore it from three or four different perspectives at the relevant point in a given story (it takes planning to keep the facts the same but also show the event as the same objectively but the very different subjective experiences. I have also found it interesting to use the stories to explore the treatment of disabled people both those who can 'pass' in society and those with considerable needs, this covers both bourn disabled and those who acquire disability later in life.
I gave up reading most fantasy because of the lack of realism in the portrayal of events (Tolkien and C S Lweis are noticeable in how realistic they are about such things, even if they have magical shortcuts for some things like healing).
I tend to be very interested in character-driven stories as well, yes. Especially if they allow for the experience of the unfolding of a really satisfying character arc.
This can be done extremely well if the character doesn't start out as the "super hero", so I can understand your interest in "junior members" as a focus :)
I understand this, my editor probably thinks I have something with older medical practices (With some fantasy flair) because both my novella and the novel I am finishing up now have detailed medical healing. We do have our personal enjoyments.
...amateurs talk about strategy and tactics, experts talk about logistics and supplies...!
7:05 ...one word: CHAINMAIL-BIKINI...!!! 😝👎
10:00 ...usually it's: "...shoot the wizards first...!" 🤕☠
12:06 ...usually it's: "...don't care, how much XP i get for slaying them...?" 🙁😑
13:57 ...when i'm creating fighter-characters one of the first points i do is some PTSD...! 🤕😵💫
Yes, the good old chainmail-bikinis :D And "Shoot the wizards first" is a quite I obviously heard before too :)
Seriously. In today TV shows I woudl be happy if they just not making straight nonsense strategies in the flashy battle sceenes. Like defending the castle by putting soldiers front of the walls without stating they there because they are super cooky for some reason. Also putting siege weapons front of them. Having an Omaha Beach land invasion scene. Picking a terrible position to defend and defend it by setting up some silly trap in some remote location around you. Settign up a battle where two army collide then just everybody skirmish separately for some reasons with swords maybe shields too. Jumping out from digged in positions to skirmish the enemies charging that position.
Not building trenches. WHY OH WHY does no one build a trench. I swear Outlaw King had many flaws but finally FINALLY someone built trenches to funnel someone into a proper kill zone.
I think the problem with movies and tv shows is often that they are relying heavily on the visual aspects of the experience which automatically puts you at risk at overemphasizing things in a way that might be perceived as "awesome", "cool" or "heroic" while possibly being a bit too unrealistic.
I personally do like such things at times too, not everything needs to be taken straight from a history lesson, but if the majority lacks realism, then you lose me quickly :)
it is the main reason why I ditch most books after a couple of chapters. Tenth kingdom is the worst example. One girl picks berries and nuts to feed a handful of big brawny heroes in the group she travels with.
I haven't read "Tenth Kingdom" but I probably would have stumbled over "One girl picks berries and nuts to feed a handful of big brawny heroes" as well :)
im mostly watching this to hear and suport it and see if i missed anyth8ng my story bases more on roman empire sort so iety so i reserch the marion reforms and rations and stuff opening the first chaoter with a camp being fed before a battle
As someone who had Roman History as part of his focus when studying, I can certainly understand the appeal in looking into that historical era for inspiration.
I hope you still found some value in the video, even if only as a reminder of things you got covered already :)
Thank god I found this channel 😂😂
I really appreciate the time you took for leaving that comment. Will do my best to have future videos provide some value as well :)
I dont even write books although i do like writing music with a story
But i really enjoyed this video and it made me want to write something
Thank you for taking the time to leave that comment - this is really motivating to hear. I'm glad you found some value in the video - if only a spark of inspiration to begin with :)
@@TimeTinkerer you're welcome and thank you for the inspiration!
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Steve Jackson's "Lord of the Rings" movies got away with making such a mistake:
The part that goes on in the lands of the Horse Lords, especially Rohan, where we see quite a lot going on in and around the city of Edoras.
Edoras should be surrounded by farmland (In the book; farmsteads), but is (in the movie) surrounded by barren land!
Gondor was far worse. A huge city surrounded by dusty plains, with no sign of human habitation whatsoever. What's worse is the ridiculous verticality to the structure. Gondorians must have had epic thigh muscles, and severely worn out knee joints!
I have to agree, unfortunately.
While I still love the trilogy today (some of the best movies ever made), I do agree, there were some of these aspects that could have been developed more thoroughly.
Btw, I think you meant "Peter Jackson" :)
That's why it's called fantasy.
That is true, but even in fantasy, concepts such as "Suspension of disbelief" and "Immersion" matter. If the audience is unable to follow the story or lose themselves in your fantasy world, they won't have a great experience - if they even continue reading.
I personally think - and that's just a single writer's opinion of course :) - that it is important to strike a proper balance between realism and fantastical elements. Without such a balance, I'd be concerned about losing readers because they are overwhelmed with the unfamiliar.
Play Mount & Blade Bannerlord II before writing your stories.
If only I could find some time to play :) But I'll put it on my watch list and see if I can't get some value out of a few lets plays or so :)
Alliance supporter detected, opinions regarded as invalid.
Lok'tar O'gar! For the Horde!
I'm still leaving a heart here, but have to respond with "FOR THE ALLIANCE!" as well though, I'm afraid :)
Ok your showing own lack of knolledge chosing between front assault and flanking no in medievil combat both is the answer infantry lock in and horses go from the wings to circle around this is common medievil battle strategy
Battle isnt often flashy tactics which u trying present it as
A battle of minds”rarwly 9/10 battles is not a battle of will the romans conquired half the world by standing still with shields and poking their enemy before them the greeks did basicly the same thing With same atrategies
medievil battles often were infantry locked with horses and archers really being the pinicle of if u win or lose War was a game to knights for most of the medievil period
Actual strategy and tactics are often more subtle more unexspected not fancy flashy battle tactics but more like nipoleons splitting an army by trickery or vlad the impaler killing his own villages to scare off the turks
I appreciate your feedback, and you are not wrong about the historical strategies usually used. I didn't say though that "direct assault" or "flanking maneuvre" where the most common strategies, I just used these two as examples for quite different approaches that would lead to very different narratives when thoughtfully explored within the story :)
They are also Boots on the ground ,the heroics of famous Generals going Hand to Hand in one Front was less shown because He was a great Warrior and more to inspired the men to hold the Line ,also people Back then never Had the luxury of a Big map ,a Drone camera to have a birds eyes View or any Other fancy Things. Battles started Sometimes because armies accidently marches into each Other without any Prior knowledge because of very Misty weather. Most great Generals we're great improvisers and the best are lucky
Most medieval combat ere sieges or skirmishes. Full blown battles were exceedingly rare due to the risks of it. Why all the big battles are easily remembered and listed. They weren't that common
No it doesn't make it less believable. I don't care about the realism unless its a documentary.
Great to hear that this isn't necessary for you. This way you can enjoy stories that others cannot :)
Personally though - and I know that many feel this way - I do need some grounding in reality. I don't want a history lesson when reading fantasy either (I studied history for that) but when your world lacks logic on all ends, the argument "its fantasy" doesn't cut it for my just by itself.
@@TimeTinkerer my point is this. The lack of supply trains, or forging parties for huge armies isn't necessary to make the story grounded. No one and I mean no wants to break up the pacing of your story to show how your armies are fed. Adding this tedious yet unneeded detail even in a story set in historical background. Many of these so called worst warfare mistakes, when corrected, doesn't add or subtract from the hero's journey. It is a bad plot, or adding you as the main character, or putting your personal beliefs in the stories that kills the story.
It's because it's a story nobody wants to read about supply lines and logistics cuz it's very dull
I would say that this depends on how it is integrated into the narrative. Yes, a poorly executed and dull breakdown of resources and organization does not make for a good story. But so does a poor execution of almost anything :) Realistic portrayal of warfare allows for lots of storytelling opportunities that are far from dull.