UPDATE Feb 2021: New video out with my current best buy recommendations: ua-cam.com/video/yO27H_Cq7bM/v-deo.html I also keep everything up to date in this blog post: questforgroove.com/gear-recommendations/
Thank you so much for your recommendation at the beginning without going 20+ minutes into it.. I'm looking for something with encoders/sliders.. Pads (I don't need keys) and especially Note Repeat or an Arpeggiator built in if possible. Looking for a DAW controller w/pads pretty much.. If it were class compliant that would be siiiick. Any leads?
My guess would be that ableton push can do a lot of those things. Maschine mk3 in midi mode can also do a lot if you take the time to configure how your daw responds to midi cc messages. Also, there are a lot of iPad apps available that have digital faders and can remote control your daw. Also something to consider.
I looked through your videos for a dedicated video on Atom and did not find one, maybe I didn't look hard enough. If I'm right though, please make one as soon as is convenient to you. Your approach to reviewing a product is as good as me having the device itself and yes you already sold me on the Atom but the extra info wouldn't hurt
There is no dedicated review! That must have been a misunderstanding. I just did a comparison between a bunch of devices. Will keep your request in mind though! Thnx.
I'm a drummer who wanted an alternative for playing drums without the actual drums. I bought my mpd218 some months ago following your advice. I'm not sure if I got one of the good or bad ones because I haven't played on another drumpad yet to compare, but I have to say that it was a great choice. First because of my low budget, considering that I live in Argentina and nowadays a 218 is worth more than 200 dolars here, so you can imagine how expensive can be one of the superior models that you mention, also knowing that the salaries are pretty low here in comparison to Europe. Second because I found it very simple and easy to use and configure because it has just the necessary, which makes it perfect for begginers. Now i'm trying to improve my technique so I can play live with some friends someday. I invite you to watch the two videos in my channel if you want to. For last, I must say that your videos helped me a lot to get started in this and improve as a finger drummer. Thank you, Robert!
Hey Esteban, that is so great to hear! It makes me very happy to know that my advice from a year ago did help people. I really like my mpd218 as well. And apparently you got lucky and found a good one which is indeed super great if you don't have a fortune yo spend! I hope akai improves their quality control so I can start recommending the 218 again.
My issue with my MPD16 and maybe other models in the range too (?), is using two fingers on one pad to simulate using two sticks for rolls etc. My MPD16 and also Yamaha RY30 tend to either not register both hits, or I get unwanted hits / double triggering when only one note was needed. So what I am saying is I need something that is predictable and does not need firmly hitting with your fingers.
Props from Germany! I wrote a similar Comparison a few Weeks ago on my German Blog with a nearly same Result! Now I am more secure about my conclusion about the Pad Controllers! In my Opinion you´re one of the most skilled Hardware Advisors and without knowing your POV I am really happy about this Video right here, right know! Thank U very much!!!
Your videos are great and so honest. Subscribed because of that. I am guitarist and I am thinking about starting finger drumming... found your channel. Really honest videos, no marketing talk. Keep the stuff up!
Thanks Dennis! I'll be back soon with more content. Right now I'm finishing up my new free beginner course for the website. Release end of this week. Highly recommended if you're just starting out!
Wow. I tried to get into finger drumming 8 years or so ago with the korg padkontrol (the black one). I assume I read a lot of reviews that it was good, but when I got it... it just wasn't very sensitive. I ended up putting it on the shelf and never used it. Your videos got me interested in finger drumming again, so I tried pulling it out this week. Indeed, it still sucks. I decided to bite the bullet and get your recommended mikro mk3. Lo and behold, I watched this right after buying, and I finally have an explanation for why the padkontrol didn't work well! Thanks for making these videos. Really looking forward to getting my mikro mk3 this week :)
Hey that's great to hear! Hope you're going to have a blast playing and making music. If you stick with it, finger drumming can be a big plus to your music production and even improve the groove and flow of any other instruments or parts you're playing. At least that's what I found over the years.
this is the best review ever. i was really trying to decide between presonus and the mk3 mikro. i'm definitely going with the mikro now. i want great pads, and i like how it can work as a stand alone as well so that i could just set up little drum loops when trying to come up with ideas on the acoustic guitar before trying to turn it into a real project in my DAW
Yeah for the best pads I would go with the mikro! Both the atom and the mikro have this limitation in standalone mode where you cannot change the notes inside the device. So if you set up a drumkit you have to go the other way around and configure which pad triggers what sound inside the drum software. This is easy with addictive drums 2, but it can be harder with other drum software. That's the only downside. The pads are great! And honestly, for the price there is no alternative right now.
@@TheQuestforGroove hey thought I'd hit you up one more time just before I make my final decision. Do you know how the MK3 Mikro compares to the MK2? Even though it's newer and probably has a few features the MK2 doesn't have, I'm assuming the MK2 still has more features? The reason I ask is because the MK3 Mikro is $399 Canadian, but the MK2 is on clearance right now for $349. Perhaps you haven't tried that model and don't know, but I figured I'd ask since you seem to be very informed on drum machines. thanks in advance.
Good question, but unfortunately I never played a mikro mk2. What I know from users is that a mikro mk2 can be pretty good although never as good as a big maschine. The mikro mk3 is good but also not as good as a big maschine. So... yeah. My guess is that the mikro mk3 pad les are just the best budget pads available. Better than (mikro)mk2. That said, with the mikro mk2 you can still edit the notes in midi mode by using controller editor. This is not possible on the mikro mk3. You can still use it in midi mode but all configuring takes place inside the drum software because the controller has just one midi mode that is static.
Just boughtba MPD218. Think I've been super lucky. Worked close to flawless aside from the odd ghost beat (picking up unwanted pad activation) loosened the screws on the circuit board by 8th of a turn and that has now completely stopped and even the velocity/sensitivity of the pads has improved. After watching all your videos I was excited but skeptical. Guess I found treasure on this hunt. Thanks for the info and have to say great technique on the pads you have there man.
I hated my 218, pads would get dirty/sticky easily, pads would double trigger, and the bottom row pads would rattle the device. Picked up a maschine mk3 and that thing is perfection, best pads since the legacy MPC pads, the solid grey pads on the old standalone machines were so soft from an era before studio equipment lit up like a Christmas tree. In my personal experience, any pads that come on keyboard controllers are usually terrible.
Awesome! I was really looking forward to seeing your take on the Atom. While you certainly don't seem to be blown away by it, the size and price were already tempting and now I might just have to get it. I only have an MPKmini and the pads are deplorable. Thanks again!
Once again thanks for this review of almost every possible pad device in the market. I don’t have usd600 to spend so mikro mk3 is my best choice. This will add to my existing s88 mk2, m32 and Audio 2. Omg I’m all with Native Instruments right now and I’m happy with every device they came out! Thanks for making my decision much easier. Mikro mk3 I’m cmng to get you later!
I currently own an ATOM and an MPD218 and I have to say there is definitely a trade off between the two devices. MPD218 I feel responds to a lighter touch, but doesn't have a great velocity curve. The ATOM on the other hand I have to hit a little bit harder but responds much better to my playing. I feel like both devices have a tragic flaw however. While the MPD218 has double triggering issues, my ATOM will often drop notes when playing 16th note patterns on one pad (aka snare / hi hat rolls). I have never had dropped notes on the MPD218 so I think one is only better than the other depending on what style of drumming you are trying to play with them. I personally find myself using the MPD218 more often.
Thanks for your two cents! My guess is that if you own a good mpd218 it can be better than the atom I guess. Problem is that you usually get a bad device nowadays . Did not know about the note repetition... I did check but since I have two pads for snares, kicks and hihats it usually only happens s when doing stuff on the Toms. Thanks again, always good to hear how these devices are doing across the world!
Yeah right now my 'quick' recommendation summary is: - Maschine mikro mk3 - If you have clear plans for using more pads, then get a launchpad pro mk3 - Nektar aura is also a good choice but you have to configure it very precisely. Did another video about that. If you have less to spend: - Launchpad X - Presonus atom I have not heard of any controller never having any problems. A lot of people buy the mikro mk3 for example and on the qfg message boards there were a few unlucky people who had to send it back and get a working device back in return. Same for the atom or the launchpad x. I do think its rare that you g see t a bad unit, but keep that in mind and keep the receipt. All people who exchanged the unit got a good one in return.
Thanks for the great information. This gave me insight on which devices to start off with and to upgrade to. I love finger drumming and currently I use a mobile app called Drum Pads 24. As of now, I plan on getting the Akai mpd218 as a step-up beginning controller, but I’m also considering the Atom, since I’ve heard that a lot of 218s are inconsistent. Once I get better, I plan on finally getting the Big Maschine. Thank you so much for your time!
Let me share my own experience with the few devices I have owned. The pad controller with the best sensitivity I have ever had is the old MPD32 WITH the pad upgrade kit installed. It was amazing, I felt that I was in full control of my hit-hats (I love recording them h hats). Unfortunately I had to get rid of it because it was too big/chunky and the faders broke (accident). I replaced my MPD32 with 3 devices over the past 3 years... MPD218, Push2 and MPC Live. I had the chance to buy any of the Machine controllers at some point (when the MK3 got released) but I opted for the MPC Live. The MPD218 had good sensitivity but always double triggered samples or just did not detect some of my inputs, it felt inaccurate and I was sad. The looks, built, size... it is the dream pad controller and I still own it because it is great in a way... but the moment I got the Push it stopped being my main controller. Push2 felt waaay more sensitive and of course 64 pads. The problem with Push (and Ableton) is that it is also unreliable! This is a known "glitch" that they have not solved even after Live 10; everytime you go from a track that's got a simpler in slice mode to session view (in the Push) and then back to the track with the simpler... the sensitivity DOES NOT adjust. Sensitivity is just terrible, the worst ever... and the only way to fix that is by going back to classic mode and then back again to slice mode. It ruins my workflow in so many ways... terrible. Finally the MPC Live, which I chose over the Maschine because the pads felt very comfortable, fatter, and of course standalone, 6 hours battery... it is a dream. The pads are not as sensitive as the Maschine, that is kind of true... but it felt more satisfying to play.
Indeed. I sold the MPD32 because of the size. I got the MPD218 and the size is perfect but the double triggering is driving me mad. I've placed tape on the sensors and removed the center screws on the inside board. This has helped but still double triggering occurs. I keep on tweaking it but not with 100% reliable result. Whenever you loosen tighten the corner screws the boars seems to move around. This plays a big part in the bugy behaviour. they should create a new pro version with stable and sensitive pads, 16 levels and maybe transport controls. The demand is huge and it would sell as the number 1 generic padcontroller on the market.They are missing out!
The Quest for Groove Thanks man :) I seem to lean towards Maschine Mikro for purely cosmetic reasons (since I find the Atom kinda ugly). But what holds me back is that I’m not really interested in using the Maschine software. It’ll mostly make my projects more cumbersome. How big deal would you say that is, how easy is it to use directly in a DAW? Also, where are you at? Finland?
I'm in Amsterdam Netherlands. And I only use my controllers in midi mode inside a daw. I have a big maschine and never used the software Haha. The mikro can be used in midi mode but you cannot change the notes it sends out. Which means that in midi mode you need to combine it with software instruments that have midi learn functionality. I use addictive drums 2 for drumming and the midi learn function is excellent. So the mikro in midi mode plus addictive drums is a killer combo!
Exactly. If you go to my website questforgroove.com and sign up for the free beginner course (seriously, no secret marketing trick here) you'll get info about what to buy and also a step by step setup guide for maschine mikro mk3 and addictive drums.
Thank you so much for this video! I just returned my MPD226. The sensitivity and responsiveness was pretty bad. I just received the Mikro MK3 and so far love how the pads respond. Now its just a matter of learning the Maschine software. Im not a fan of how it limits integration with your DAW. At least with the MPD I could plug it in and record midi notes into Logic while running MPC. It seems like such a hassle with Maschine. Thats a separate issue though. So far I’m very happy with the hardware and midi mode. Keep making great videos 🙌🏼
Hey Sefa, Yes it is actually a concern of mine that when Native Instruments gets too much marketshare, they will abuse their power, ditch midi standalone mode altogether and start forcing everyone to use their software. Apple / Microsoft style. So let's hope that other companies step up their game and start producing kickass midi controllers :-)
@@TheQuestforGroove I agree! Hopefully they will see this video and realize they should be catering to all instead of just one platform. Quick question, while in midi mode on the Mikro MK3, is there a way to change the pad banks? With the MPD I just push bank to cycle through them, but I can't find any information on how to do this with Maschine in midi mode. Thanks for your help.
It seems to not be there. The mikro just maps all pads and knobs to a set midi note and that's it. The big mk3 does have pad banks but they really toned down the midi support to the bare minimum with the mikro which is exactly why I'm a little scared they're gonna keep pushing the envelope towards abolishing midi in the future.
@@TheQuestforGroove I already experienced this... if you buy the Maschine without software, in some cases you can't enable midi standalone. If anyone buys a maschine second hand, they need to be really careful.
Yeah that makes sense. I noticed I had to fire up maschine software (updated to latest version) one time before I could switch on midi mode so indeed, without the software you're screwed.
I've been watching a bunch of reviews of these controllers. I can't believe how bad some of them are, especially the Akais. What is the point of having a pad to trigger a sound if it doesn't work consistently? You're better off just using a keyboard if the pads are that bad. Good to see that the Maschines and Pushes are quality gear. At least you can be confident that you can get something good for a little more money. Thanks for the great reviews, you're the man!
Yeah I understand completely. I don't rule out the possibility that one day I'll change my mind. Its kinda like with guitars. You have a stratocaster, telecaster, les paul, all great guitars but they all have something different. Theres no real right or wrong there... just how you feel personally about them at a certain point in your career as an artist. The mpc live is very nice. Shows that akai can build good stuff and that they should deliver this quality to more of their devices. If the mpd series had mpc live pads... I would forget native instruments even existed :-)
I am still tweaking my MPD218. The size is perfect. I am experimenting with the screws. I have removed the ones in the middle. Also I have placed tape inside on top of the pad sensors. The response is good but still there is double trigerring.. I will try adding an extra layer of tape this time on the bottom of the pads..
Another thing people may wanna consider is the mpk249, I have one and I like the pads but if the settings are set up exactly like I use them it does a little ghost noting. But when I have it on... velocity sensitivity 9 Velocity curve exp 2 log 2 or linear for some things Vel Threshold 7-9 I didn't love the board, keys or pads at first (I come from triton le and mpc 1000 so little spoiled b4) but I have slowly fallen more and more in love with the mpk249. I played a few different mpd228 and 18s and the mpk24 and was like wow I thght my mpk249 felt cheap lol! I like maschine studio and mk3 pads better but not many other pads I wld take over mine now, especially on a keyboard although I also have a nektar impact lx25 and the pads are decent on it too but more like the mpd lineup (hard no play or squessh in the pads) but at the end of the day I cld play any and almost all pads if I had to lol Great learn mode, pad bank A-D, pads can change colors for on and off, then on of my fav that I didn't like too much at first is the 3 control banks (same midi ch when new) w 30 presets so u can leave the A bank as a universal and then change the controls for B and/or C comtrol bank on 30 different presets.
@Hammy Havoc lol I kinda like it, but def know what u mean, I have noticed mine and most that I've seen slump in the middle a little like a u. But you must not have played some of these other cheaper MIDI controllers cause I have 2 I won't name that are terrible like not even close how bad they are, they both have pads and are fairly close in size too.
@Hammy Havoc the velocity scale is what causes the problems like I like the way the keys feel and play but if I change the velocity scale at all its like instantly unplayable, like wtf I changed it 1% and now I cld punch it and not get a sound.
I bought Akai MPD 218 recently and I got to your video after many other reviews. These are not ultra-sensitive and best pads they ever made like they market them. Device is quite close to poor. Some pads sensitivities differ from each other and you just dont get sound with softer touch . So its hard to create rally good human groove or play more precisely. I am just very dissapointed because i was exicted about my first drum pad and i thought it will be much better as build one in my novation midi keyboard. I have no experience with “older models” though, but most seen reviews on YT are 2-3 years old and they still mislead people to these days... In coclusion, I dont recommend to purchase MPD 218 to anyone. Thanks for the video:)
I just recently bought the Akai MPSD218, so far I'm satisfied with it. Without experience with any other pad controller, how could I know if I have a "good" or a "bad" one?
Honestly, if you play it and it seems to respond well you have a good one. You will immediately know you have a bad one because one or more pads simply don't respond well to soft touches and you miss notes and stuff like that.
After extensive use of maschine gen1, maschine mikro gen 1, akai mpc x and 2 different korg pad controls, I can most definitely say, that korg has no doubt best pads sensitivity and playability. Did try maschine gen 3 , but didn't find it much different from maschine gen 1 (in terms of pads sensitivity) The worst out of all i played was mpc x so far
did you use a black one or a white one? the statement in the video got me a bit worried, because after using a white one with great satisfaction for years, I got a black one coming and this is the first time Ive heard that the black ones are actually different. for me, the pads on the padkontrol are actually better than the maschine mk2.
Haven't played that one. My guess is not spectacular. I tried so many akai devices by now. You gotta get into the more expensive controllers to get serious quality.
Very nice reviews of the different pads and good explanations for varying budgets & needs. Well, I've got the opportunity to get a cheap used Akai MPD 218 (older production line) and will try to be successful on my "treasure hunt". If I'm able to test before buying it, do you have any on-the-go, imitable methods & tips to check if the sensitivity and playability are okay (within the DAW)?
Yeah well, the best thing to do is to make sure you somehow play a maschine (mikro) mk3 first. Then you can check if a beat that you were able to play on the mikro also works on the mpd218. Then it's a good one :-) If that's not possible just give each pad a few soft taps. Are all pads responding the same? That's a good sign. Do you need to give it a serious hit before a pad lights up? Thsts bad
If they work for you they work! Don't wanna spoil anybodys fun :-) Its always a surprise what you get with those cheaper akai devices though. Sometimes they're great and then .. they're not. I hope you were one of the lucky folks!
You might be able to, but the atom is designer to be user with a regular computer. Its actually optimised for presonus studio one, but it can be used with all software. My guess would be that if you have an app on your ipad that can read incoming midi data you can hook up the atom via some sort of lightning port adapter and then you should be able to get results. It does not seem like the most straightforward way to use this thing though!
I am still struggling. I don't understand why non of these companies have created a super simple and good responding (maschine's pad response) compact (mpd218) pad controller? The demand is huge.
The reason is to sell as many bundled vst software and libraries only with more expensive products.Quite sad manipulation tactics those manufacturers do.They would not sell expensive devices if people would chose cheaper good controllers for 80 USD and got two drum libraries for another 80USD. 160 USD vs 500USD.I hope this makes it clear how they lower the quality of the gear.
Ok I'll check. What I can say from the top of my head: - curve linear - threshold and sensitivity as low as possible. If you set them both to 1, you'll get a lot of ghost triggering. So then set them to 2, then 3 until the ghost triggering stops. Then you have the perfect setting in my opinion :-)
@@TheQuestforGroove please! In my mpc live curves comes as options from A to D. Thanks for your response. I came from a Maschine Mk2 and I'm looking for setting Live as close to MK2 as possible
Great-great job, as usual, man! I really appreciate this test on all those devices!!! I suggest you a new challenge... What about Akai MPC Studio? David Haynes changed for it after he worked 2 years on Maschine Mk2.... and the reason was just the pad sensitivity, he said! Is it only an "endorsement issue"?
I bought one when he talked about it years ago and the pads sucked... now they have the mpc studio black which supposedly has better pads so... yeah might need to check that out!
The launchkey mini mk3 pads were pretty good! So yeah, if you want a small keyboard plus some pads I can recommend it. A white pad kontrol can also still be a great controller but it will depend on how worn out it is. If somebody has hit those pads a million times they will be less sensitive.
Very good video, A while back I purchased a Used Black Korg PADKontrol , pretty cheap. I recently wanted to use it and realized that the pads didn't work very well. I found a Video called "Korg Padkontrol sensitivity fix" where he put black electrical tape under the pads. I tried it a put 2 layers and was amazed at how well it worked. The next struggle is that the WINDOWS assigns a number to the MIDI devices and Korg can't work with numbers above 9. This took some fiddling around and some new words, but I did get it working.
I'm also interested in that Alesis vi25 because it has 16 drum pads. I'm trying to decide between the following because 16 drum pads is a must for me... the Akai MPD226, Alesis vi25 and Novation Launchkey 25 (the regular 25-key not that "25-mini" toy).... but now this guy is saying the Akai MPD226 is not the greatest quality, damn I was thinking of getting it this week. :( Whatever 16 pad controller I get has to work great with my Ableton Live 10 software btw. I guess back to doing more research.
@@DJDAMIAN72 ive heard the pads on the 226 arent great. i would definitely recommend the vi25's pads because I would bet they have to be more sensitive than the others. They are extremely sensitive pads. My only issue with the vi25 is it seems to have a unique algorithm that sometimes causes a double tap. im not sure if its something thats been fixed in the fireware update yet or not. but it should. i've wanted to reach out but alesis doesnt have social media.
@@shoeengine1161... That double tap is usually an indication of low quality pads, unless it can be changed with sensitivity settings. You should make a video showcasing that Alesis controller, not many out there and when I check online music stores it's never on the best sellers... I did find one youtube video and the dude said he loved it but he said that those 24 small midi assignable buttons are really cheap and some stopped working so he did some weird modification where he cut a big whole where the buttons were to access the actual sensors below, he left that controller looking like an ugly frankenstein keyboard! Lol He did say the 25 semi-weighted keys & the 16 drum pads were very good, according to him, so who knows, not much seems to be known about this keyboard, I would think it would be really popular since it's one of the only two keyboard on the market I've ever seen with 25 keys and 16 pass, the Alesis vi25 & the Novation Launchkey 25, not that toy looking launch key mini but the regular 25-key, all those "mini" keyboards with mini keys for people with midget fingers look like trash toys to me! lol
@@DJDAMIAN72 its an algorithm, not really necessarily an indicator of quality. its just a code setting. QFG has touched on it with other controllers.... usually these things get updated through firmware. I honestly cant imagine a keyboard controller with more sensitive 16 pads than the vi25 tbh... i would be very surprised. for now im trending toward using my maschine mk3 only as of late... partly because of the double tap thing on the vi25. i dont find the buttons to be cheap. i think the whole unit is pretty quality in my opinion. the weighted keys are what got my attention, the 16 pads caught my interest, and the price sold me.
@@shoeengine1161 ... Yeah that Alesis iv25 does look very dope but it's weird no one ever talks about it on youtube, like the dude in this video is very informed & knows his shit but him too doesn't even mention it, maybe because it's more of a keyboard... but like you I would be very interested in him reviewing it. As of this week now I'm leaning towards the Novation Launchkey Pro, I don't know why I never really considered that one, till I saw this dude mention it and I remembered seeing it, I didn't know it was only $300, when I saw it in the past I thought it was as expensive as the push so I wasn't interested, plus I thought those small pads might suck, till I saw this dude say they were really good, then I checked other people's videos and they all said it was dope, so I think I'm going with the Novation Launchkey Pro! :)
Thanks! I personally prefer a more 'traditional' daw that's less loop based so I use the device in midi mode, but yeah, they really put in the work to make it have a nice workflow and stuff!
The Quest for Groove yeah I had a mpd8 that I didn’t expect much from but the pads need to be brutally slapped to get the slightest response, Korg has always had good velocity so I know it’ll be good
Part of me wanted to come back and bash on you for certain things about these devices that are so important that are so lacking in the most affordable, highest rated by you ... but I can’t because you clarify that it’s about playability. Lol. But I do suggests you stick with apples if your talking apples and don’t talk crap on oranges if your oranges can be physically modified like any playable instrument and the makers of the oranges have vastly improved the quality and selection that they offer. .. still - great videos. Your honest about your intention and call it dependent on your needs .... that being said some of us are more concerned with being able to interface with our own sampled sounds and kits and would be incredibly upset if we took home a Native Instruments Maschine and realized that it’s not exactly a “midi controller”. I’ll look for a better link on the physical breakdown and set up for AKAI pads.
Hey thanks for sharing! Pad controllers are so much more than just the pads and they're being used in many different ways by many people. Totally agree. The reason I started doing a pad sensitivity video was that that seemed to be one of the things other gear reviewers never talked about. When I look on UA-cam theres a lot of info about workflow and stuff like that but not about the pads. By the way, at the moment the presonus atom still has that problem with not being able to configure the notes of the pads but maschine mikro mk3 got a firmware update with a fully functional standalone midi option including assigning any note or cc controller to any pad or knob!
I just got an MPD 226 and I’ve found it to be slightly better than my MPD218. The 226 sensitivity control does not seem to do much though. I really love the feel of the MPD pads. Nice and chunky and there’s something nice about the black pad tops with led colours underneath. Still though strictly for sensitivity purposes neither is super sensitive, though I’ve found for my current heavy handed pad drumming the 226 sensitivity is acceptable. I’m sure as my style develops more refinement I will want a better performing pad though the jump in price to get similar pads on the Mpc live is quite a bit considering I really only want the pads and not the standalone-ish-ness. (Plus the live looks like a brick). I don’t need all the features of Maschine either. I think I’m going to wait and see what 2019 brings in terms of new pad controllers. Right now for equivalent of 300-ish Usd I have two sets of pads which I can practice the basics, one pad for each hand which is good value. Sure two atoms would cost the same but then it’s got those little pads. Here’s an idea Rob, Lots of people love their MPC style pads, sensitive or not. What would be awesome would be if you could get some of the pad tweaking gear from Mpcstuff and see if the thick pads and pad corx make a difference to the MPD218 or 226, or whether it destroys the feel and has strange side effects.
Hey Stuart, I think you're in a good place as far as gear goes right now if you look at where you are in your playing. I'll do an mpcstuff video at some point for sure although this would be more of a 'fun' video than a serious recommendation because as a matter of principle I don't want to make my official statement: "yeah finger drumming is fun and easy, just get this controller and then take it apart and basically build your own controller and then it works"! I think companies should just deliver quality products that don't need tweaking to get them to do one if the core things they're supposed to do. We'll talk about this on Sunday! :-)
@@TheQuestforGroove Awesome... Rob, yes I agree these devices should work reliably at a basic level as you say, but on the other hand the prospect of tweaking any instrument to make it your own can be lots of fun :) btw anyone else reading this I highly recommend you join Rob's Patreon. If you are into finger drumming or just starting out Rob is well worth supporting.
@@scribblygumsartist True. There's this one part of all normal pad controller devices which is basically a sheet of conducting ink that is used to determine if a pad triggers and how much pressure is applied. That ink rubs off over time. I've been emailing with mpcstuff about the fact that they should start producing these ink sheets for the maschine mk3 series. I suspect the first maschine mk3 devices will start failing in 2019 because for example I must have hit my hihat pad a couple of million times by now :-)
Thank you very much for this video. I think I will jump the shark and get the Mikro Maschine 3*, skipping the "teenage rebel Akai phase"... I'm currently autodidact-ing myself towards proper musicianhood by playing piano and I've made some huge progress in songwriting thanks to it, hence why I want finger drumming to be my next venture, besides being really attracted. I am keeping an eye on Andreas' (XpressPads) courses and yours for when I'll get something on my hands. Anyways, my only controller with drumpads is the Korg nanoKey Studio I recently bought, but it's not impressing me at all. Pads are one chunky hard piece of gum, awkward sensitivity - I guess, as I turned velocity off pretty quickly - and triggering issues, etc... and of course there's just 8 pads as it's an all-in-one solution. Won't explain further but even if I know some of it is my DAW's fault, I'm not really into it at all regardless, not even for casual input which doesn't require a 4 by 4 setup. Full stop. *Unless they whip out a Mikro 4 this summer, lol, it's been almost 3 years. BTW, did the updates fix that note thing you mentioned? I'm a home composer/producer and not a live performer so that part barely triggered me at all, but still.
Akai quality control hasn't gone down - it's ALWAYS been bad! About 9 years ago, I got an MPD 18. It's so bad, you need drumsticks to play it. Even hard slamming isn't enough to trigger the pads properly.
@@TheQuestforGroove Yeah, QC is such a minefield! I might've been unlucky, I was too young to know. I've been using a Steinberg CMC PD, sensitivity is perfect (but it's tiny). I'll be getting a Mikro or an Atom soon, thanks for the in-depth reviews!
Since the bigger Maschine MK3 is the best controller, is it the best option for someone who is sort of new to finger drumming? I have use pad controllers in the past, but that was years ago and I don't remember how they feel to use. So I would basically have to relearn everything. Or is it better to get the Maschine Mikro MK3 instead? I use Ableton Live for everything. And I don't plan on using the Maschine software often (since Ableton already does everything Maschine can do). I also found out that the bigger Maschine can control Ableton transport, clips, scenes and some other things. So maybe that would be a good addition if the integration with that function is easy to setup and get working.
If you can afford it, a big maschine will be a great purchase. Also, now that MPCstuff sells pad sensor sheets, you can easily "refresh" it once the pads wear out so it's become a better investment than before.
The way it senses hits makes is less suitable to create two or more pressure points with one hand at the same time. The controller does not like that. As soon as you use two hands (which will always be a few milliseconds apart from one another) the sensor system knows what to do but if two pressure points are created at the exact same time (so hitting with one hand) it gets confused. Same goes for Linnstrument and Sensel Morph.
Well with the circuit you think you have for rows of pads, but you actually have two rows and then two rows for the sequencer. So you have less drum pads than you think. For me it was not very useful since I could not set up a 4x4 grid on the thing.
@@TheQuestforGroove thank you for answer. And thanks for your videos, great and very useful stuff! Honestly I don't have a plan to become greatest fingerdrummer, I am already rather known harmonica player, but I want to add some fingerdrumming to my show, but I don't want heavy stuff. I already have a lot of harmonicas, pedals, amps etc, with me so I don't want to have laptop (and I don't own working laptop right now). Usually we have real drummer, so I plan to trigger some 808 samples for some parts. I already own AKAI MPX8 and AKAI MPK mini play. Both are standalone but both are 2x4. However so much tutorials recommend 4x4 layout. I think it is also useful to fingerdrum for my overall timing. My fingerdrumming timing is so bad now comparing to my harmonica and guitar timing, so I sure if I overcome it will be useful for my harmonica playing too. Does it worth to become good on 2x4 layout before getting 4x4, is 2x8 ok to start? Or it is better to get 4x4 from the beginning?
I think 4x4 is the easiest way to get started honestly. It allows for quickly playing some basic beats. With 2x4 stuff gets a little complicated and in a way with the small pads on the 8x8 stuff gets complicated too. Using fingerdrumming to improve timing is absolutely a great thing! I recently made a video about how it improved my guitar playing :-)
So true about MPD series. A month ago I've bought 218 and in about an hour I found that it's a rubbish device - because of bad pad sensitivity and double triggering. Looking for Maschine Mikro now...
check out some videos of people doing pad fixes on their mpd's. i just found out about this. basically its a requirement to upgrade the pads (they come with pad sensors too). but once you upgrade the pads on the mpd its supposed to be butter... one of the best feels. my pads are on the way.
Hi! Do any of you know if there is any way to know if/when a 218 is bad or good (when looking for second hand devices, with no way to try them out)? Are there any "good" range of serial numbers or production years to look for?
OK. A true gamble then... I can get hold of one for $50, that is 2-3 years old. It's my first finger drumming pad, so I don't want to spend too much yet. I can always do an upgrade to something better later, if I want to advance.
Great comparison, just bought a lightpad M (2nd hand) last week, not very impressed with it as pad controller. Might sell it and get a Maschine Mikro or PreSonus Please include a (2nd hand) push 1 as well in your next comparison, as you can get those for about 150 euros as well, much less than the Push 2
Thanks will keep that in mind. From what I heard after publishing this video the lightpad blocks require more of a 'pushing' playing style than a hitting one. Whuch does not work for me at all but apparently some folks got used to it and like it now :-)
I‘m sad you don’t like the ROLI Lightpad... it has become the center of my setup 🙈 I also had some problems in the beginning with it, but after some major firmware updates (did you use the latest firmware?) it’s now a really great controller! Compared to all the other ones you tested it has two major benefits which are (1) portability and (2) flexibility but also downsides wich are (1) size of the buttons, they can be two small for some playing styles or require more than one Lightpad and (2) it’s just different kind of playing surface... the last one could also be a plus, just depends if you like it or are willing to learn the playing technique which can be a hassle if you’re used to play a traditional pad controller! Yes, Lightpads are probably less sensitive than the big Maschine (I played on one before) but their surface just requires a different playing style and also a slightly different setup of the software instruments! It took me a while until I managed the transition between my AKAI MPD218 (and I have a super sensitive one) and my Lightpads, but now I don’t want to miss the versatility of them 😎
Thanks for your two cents! I did update to latest firmware yes. I do think the problem with the lightpad block is that it's almost the price of a maschine mikro and it really does not allow me to use moeller technique, or do some more advanced hits with my thumbs. For one because it's too small and secondly because it's not sensitive enough. For moeller technique the controller has to trigger from the weight of your hand falling down and it just doesnt. Maybe it needs a little more 'pushy' playing style instead of 'hitting'. That could be... I'm gonna make a song with the lightpad block next week so I'll take your comments into account and see if I can find a way to get used to it.
By the way one more thing: I'm happy that you found a finger drumming device that works for you and that makes you happy because it fits into your way of playing and creating. If that's the roli lightpad block for you then I cannot really disagree with you about the fact that it is awesome. Because is is for you. So yeah... that. :-)
Yes, you got it! It definitely needs a more pushy instead of hitting playing style... but also with the after touch possibilities it opens up new ways that traditional controllers can’t offer 😉 Looking forward to watching your Lightpad video!!
i was at a shop today looking for the most sensitive finger drumming pads.. and i could not find a singer one.. that matches my desires.. But i can tell you that Alesis have keyboard with pads that actually the most sensitive that i ever felt.. and that what im looking for. some that will be like touching a phone screen AKAI mpd 218 and 226 disapointed me and also The ATOm.. i could not find a 16 pads finger drumming machine that will match
Great video, helped me a lot. I got and Akai MPD218 for Christmas as my first drum pad, after seeing all their marketing and good reviews from everyone, so I was very excited... only to find I literally had to smash the pads to get maximum velocity, and still apply in my opinion too much pressure to trigger them. So now I'm on the fence about buying an used PadKontrol and an used Maschine Mikro MK2, if you ever used the latter, which one of them would you recommend?
I think I would try to find a mikro mk3 to be honest. Maybe there are folks that are selling theirs already. Only important thing with a used maschine device is that you get the software licenses as well! You don't need the software when playing but you might need it to get everything activated and running.
The Quest for Groove thanks didn't know about the software being possibly needed for the setup of the Maschine, in fact I've seen really good offers for these devices where I live that probably don't include software for such a good price though. Will keep that in mind, thanks for pointing it out, and yeah at this point I'll try to find an used MK3 but that'd be a hard guess at least here in Italy haha. Thanks for the help and good work with the UA-cam channel!
What about the pad action on the Ableton Push 2? really interested to know how it holds up from a veteran perspective. I've heard the actions not great, and you should have a dedicated drum pad for the actual drumming inputs, but its still really good for controlling sequencing, etc.
I got an MPD 218 a month ago at the pawnshop for $60. I can just rest my fingers on the pads and send brain signals to my digits. The pads pick up the neural synapses. That’s pretty sensitive…
That's always a bit of a gamble. I own one, I know other people like their white pad kontrols. And I played two black pad kontrols that were not as good as my white one. But I don't know what would happen if you compare a 1000 black ones with a 1000 white ones.
Ok so i have watched a few videos today and have learnt a bit from you about latency and how it effects my timing. thanks for that. I never thought to check. and god dam 10 to 15 milliseconds makes a difference.(you helped fix my groove) lol. So now I am wondering about something. I have a Machine MK2 and Machine Micro MK2. when i run them through my Traktor Z2 sound card/mixer i get 23 to 33 milliseconds of Latency. I have tested this on two different computers. if i use either computers built in sound card i can get it under 10 milliseconds....... Now seeing that The MK3 has a built in sound card compared to the Mikro MK3 is the latency better on the Mikro or is the MK3 built to work it all out. Im well aware that the MK3 sound card will sound better but really wondering about latency... Also when the MK3 is just running off USB power is there any more latency than when you plug it in. Im trying to get the best sounding, low latency and portable finger drumming set up possible.......... Thanks bro. keep up the good work.
Hey man! The maschine mk3 built in soundcard is actually pretty damn good. They provide special drivers that are optimized for real time audio. If you use it you have to set the buffer size as low as possible and try and plug it in directly via usb. So no usb hub if that's possible. That should get you a very nice latency of under 6ms. USB power does not have an effect at all on latency. The reason for not using a usb hub is that some hubs will create extra latency or even inconsistent latency where others work perfectly fine. Usually plugging in directly is a little more stable although on my computer I can use both options and they're both fine.
One more thing: when using the mk3 as soundcard you need to plug in all your headphones and speakers in there. Not in the audio out of your computer otherwise it won't work. Also the maschine mk3 audio driver has to be selected in every piece of audio software you use. So for example in addictive drums 2 standalone you have to select asio driver and then select the maschine as the device for processing audio. If you select a windows direct sound driver you'll get latency again.
The Quest for Groove ohhhh. Yeah. I usually use native instruments plugins. But yeah. I’m going to start checking all theses things all the time from now on. I learnt to much and realise how much a difference 15 milliseconds can make to the finer parts of your groove. ;) thanks again
Hello, thanks for that very informative video! Well done and very helpful. I am also on the hunt for a good piece of controller gear for finger and hand drumming. The first idea I had was to get a used Roland Handsonic HPD-10. Additionally to the midi capabilities it most probably has some very nice own sounds and probably very good pads. Do you have experience with a Roland Handsonic + Finger drumming? Thanks! Keep it up.
I know the atom is basically built for Studio One, not for Ableton Live. But... Since it's a fully functional midi controller and ableton has midi learn for basically everything I assume you will be fine :-)
Great overview! I have a question though. Can Maschine MK3 replicate the roll speed/volume that is achievable when using the Padkontrol's x/y pad? Do you know what I mean? The x/y pad on Padkontrol can create AMAZINGLY dynamic drum rolls. BUT you need to keep a finger on the x/y pad to modulate them! I want to buy an MK3 I just would like to replicate thus feature! Can you tell me?! Thanks a lot, it's a great series of vids you've done.
Hey, that type of roll is a pad kontrol exclusive im afraid. I don't miss it though. Love playing my machine. The pads respond better and give me an overall better sense of control.
Thank you so much ,especially for the mpd218 “treasure hunt”! I have one and although it triggers nice with almost zero double triggering,the pads are very stiff and unpleasant to play . Was so confused watching videos saying how great it is....The previous mpd18 had way better feeling although you had to mod (easily) the pads with tape to get equal triggering . And will always regret selling the padKontrol :(
And another one: the problem you had with the MPC Touch, was in Midi mode triggering your usual Addictive Drum setup or were you running the MPC Software? Thanks!!!
It was all addictive drums. So I tested the thing as a midi controller. With the touch you have to route it through mpc software and that was very annoying. It might be that using the mpc software only will fix the problem but I want to play 'real' kits, not just samples. So therefore the mpc touch will not work. Keep in mind that I'm just talking about pad sensitivity and my way of finger drumming. So there might be tons of producers out there who would still love the devices I dismiss. For beatmaking or something. It just does not work for playing the way I play. :-)
Not for my style of playing at the moment. I tested devices like the Maschine + and also Novation Circuit, but they're really don't sound and feel like you're playing on a drumkit. As long as you're more oriented towards electronic sounds it's ok, but otherwise standalone is not really a thing.
Hi great video I want to thank you so much for taking the time to review all the stuff and making this video I think it’s very useful sides by so I could Paris of all these different controllers is just in valuable, That being said I took your recommendation a couple months ago after I watched a video and I bought the Korg PadKontrol (the white model as recommended) And I absolutely love it ONLY $60 on eBay I was also blown away by the features and control of different parameters That could actually be changed right from device without putting it into a editor or using The proprietary software . For a 10 year old device this things Kids do things that some of the brand new devices are doing it’s class compliance it does the toggle hold note repeat for cueing loops which I have not found in any of the MPC controllers Some of these manufacturers should be ashamed of themselves trying to sell us shit for hundreds of dollars that can’t do what a 10 year old $60 controller can do!!!! Do you know if the atom can audition toggle note repeat? And example if press the button once the sale of the additions of kids play until you touch the button again This is what I will be by the toggle note hold function
Hey Nate, There might be note repeat available in the atom but I have not found it yet. I think it might be working together with presonus studio one for extra functions.
mines good and you have to loosen the bottom screws too plus the mpd218 is stiff until you beak it in with your style....1 erk i wish the repeat button was a toggle button
Great video again! Thank you very much! Here goes a quicky: Is there a way to change the pad bank in the Maschine Mikro MK3 by pressing only 1 button? (while playing)
Awesome video! Quick question for the finger drum king: Is one of the differences between the MK3 Mikro and the big MK3 that the big MK3 produced fewer double-triggers? I just bought an MK3 Mikro and am already wondering if I should upgrade to the big one because the Mikro double-triggers quite frequently as I play it. And to be clear, by “double-trigger” I mean: You hit a pad once and it erroneously registers two hits in quick succession.
Yes this is something I noticed earlier. However, when I tested the mikro for the second time with upgraded firmware in midi mode somehow the problem seemed to be less. So if you don't have the latest firmware you can try installing that first and see if it helps. There might also just be a difference between midi mode and normal maschine mode. What I can tell you is that my big maschine never double triggers in midi mode. I have not used it with maschine software so no idea about that.
Hello and thank you for the reviews !! MPD218 Seems a bang for its price , but recently very tempted between """ AKAI MPD32 VERSUS ARTURIA BEATSTEP PRO """" ____ Because of Quality Pads & Features. But yoy neber reviewed the very much used BEATSTEP PRO | . Why ? I think they are the most complete for about the hands on control . Thoughts ?
I don't actually review every device available. I test out the ones that seem interesting to me and I can get my hands on.The beatstep pro at that time took a couple of weeks to get sent to the Netherlands, so I tested out the normal beatstep for a follow up video to this one, didn't like it and at that point didn't want to go and buy a beatstep pro anymore just to see if that one would be good. Also because the layout of the pads is not compatible with how I play and teach. So yeah, the pads might be good, but I could not really help you with this specific decision. All I can say is get a Maschine mikro mk3 or a Launchpad pro mk3 because I tested those extensively.
@@TheQuestforGroove Thank you for the complete answer. Yes, Launchpad pro mk3 would be the one as. I come from the hardware world. It got mini midi pin and its very powerful... just too big its enclosure I think unlike its thickness . ... Probably it is the best to work with hardware set up only. ( within beatstep&MPD) . Thank you
UPDATE Feb 2021: New video out with my current best buy recommendations: ua-cam.com/video/yO27H_Cq7bM/v-deo.html
I also keep everything up to date in this blog post: questforgroove.com/gear-recommendations/
Thank you so much for your recommendation at the beginning without going 20+ minutes into it.. I'm looking for something with encoders/sliders.. Pads (I don't need keys) and especially Note Repeat or an Arpeggiator built in if possible. Looking for a DAW controller w/pads pretty much.. If it were class compliant that would be siiiick. Any leads?
My guess would be that ableton push can do a lot of those things.
Maschine mk3 in midi mode can also do a lot if you take the time to configure how your daw responds to midi cc messages.
Also, there are a lot of iPad apps available that have digital faders and can remote control your daw. Also something to consider.
I looked through your videos for a dedicated video on Atom and did not find one, maybe I didn't look hard enough.
If I'm right though, please make one as soon as is convenient to you.
Your approach to reviewing a product is as good as me having the device itself and yes you already sold me on the Atom but the extra info wouldn't hurt
There is no dedicated review! That must have been a misunderstanding. I just did a comparison between a bunch of devices. Will keep your request in mind though! Thnx.
@@TheQuestforGroove no thank you sir
Finally someone on UA-cam with honest reviews! Thank You!
I'm a drummer who wanted an alternative for playing drums without the actual drums. I bought my mpd218 some months ago following your advice. I'm not sure if I got one of the good or bad ones because I haven't played on another drumpad yet to compare, but I have to say that it was a great choice. First because of my low budget, considering that I live in Argentina and nowadays a 218 is worth more than 200 dolars here, so you can imagine how expensive can be one of the superior models that you mention, also knowing that the salaries are pretty low here in comparison to Europe. Second because I found it very simple and easy to use and configure because it has just the necessary, which makes it perfect for begginers.
Now i'm trying to improve my technique so I can play live with some friends someday. I invite you to watch the two videos in my channel if you want to. For last, I must say that your videos helped me a lot to get started in this and improve as a finger drummer. Thank you, Robert!
Hey Esteban, that is so great to hear! It makes me very happy to know that my advice from a year ago did help people. I really like my mpd218 as well. And apparently you got lucky and found a good one which is indeed super great if you don't have a fortune yo spend!
I hope akai improves their quality control so I can start recommending the 218 again.
My issue with my MPD16 and maybe other models in the range too (?), is using two fingers on one pad to simulate using two sticks for rolls etc. My MPD16 and also Yamaha RY30 tend to either not register both hits, or I get unwanted hits / double triggering when only one note was needed. So what I am saying is I need something that is predictable and does not need firmly hitting with your fingers.
Man!! You’re the BEST on UA-cam Now!
Quarantine money about to make me a producer
Aiight!
Currently waiting for my Maschine Mikro, so that was good to hear, thanks! looking forward to check more stuff out here
Props from Germany! I wrote a similar Comparison a few Weeks ago on my German Blog with a nearly same Result! Now I am more secure about my conclusion about the Pad Controllers! In my Opinion you´re one of the most skilled Hardware Advisors and without knowing your POV I am really happy about this Video right here, right know! Thank U very much!!!
Awesome to hear we both got the same results!
Your videos are great and so honest. Subscribed because of that. I am guitarist and I am thinking about starting finger drumming... found your channel. Really honest videos, no marketing talk. Keep the stuff up!
Thanks Dennis! I'll be back soon with more content. Right now I'm finishing up my new free beginner course for the website. Release end of this week. Highly recommended if you're just starting out!
Wow. I tried to get into finger drumming 8 years or so ago with the korg padkontrol (the black one). I assume I read a lot of reviews that it was good, but when I got it... it just wasn't very sensitive. I ended up putting it on the shelf and never used it.
Your videos got me interested in finger drumming again, so I tried pulling it out this week. Indeed, it still sucks. I decided to bite the bullet and get your recommended mikro mk3. Lo and behold, I watched this right after buying, and I finally have an explanation for why the padkontrol didn't work well! Thanks for making these videos. Really looking forward to getting my mikro mk3 this week :)
Hey that's great to hear! Hope you're going to have a blast playing and making music. If you stick with it, finger drumming can be a big plus to your music production and even improve the groove and flow of any other instruments or parts you're playing. At least that's what I found over the years.
Some of great finger drummers are using korg padcontrol. It's about 20 year old midi controller. I think it was great for many years
this is the best review ever. i was really trying to decide between presonus and the mk3 mikro. i'm definitely going with the mikro now. i want great pads, and i like how it can work as a stand alone as well so that i could just set up little drum loops when trying to come up with ideas on the acoustic guitar before trying to turn it into a real project in my DAW
Yeah for the best pads I would go with the mikro!
Both the atom and the mikro have this limitation in standalone mode where you cannot change the notes inside the device. So if you set up a drumkit you have to go the other way around and configure which pad triggers what sound inside the drum software.
This is easy with addictive drums 2, but it can be harder with other drum software.
That's the only downside. The pads are great! And honestly, for the price there is no alternative right now.
@@TheQuestforGroove hey thought I'd hit you up one more time just before I make my final decision. Do you know how the MK3 Mikro compares to the MK2? Even though it's newer and probably has a few features the MK2 doesn't have, I'm assuming the MK2 still has more features? The reason I ask is because the MK3 Mikro is $399 Canadian, but the MK2 is on clearance right now for $349. Perhaps you haven't tried that model and don't know, but I figured I'd ask since you seem to be very informed on drum machines. thanks in advance.
Good question, but unfortunately I never played a mikro mk2.
What I know from users is that a mikro mk2 can be pretty good although never as good as a big maschine. The mikro mk3 is good but also not as good as a big maschine. So... yeah. My guess is that the mikro mk3 pad les are just the best budget pads available. Better than (mikro)mk2.
That said, with the mikro mk2 you can still edit the notes in midi mode by using controller editor. This is not possible on the mikro mk3. You can still use it in midi mode but all configuring takes place inside the drum software because the controller has just one midi mode that is static.
Finally! Great review. Going to buy the Mikro mk3
I agree, the sensitiivty on the MPD 226 are ridiculously low. They're uncomfortable to use.
This just saved me al lot of time and money! Thanks!
The presonus atom has good sensitivity & and pads are good quality.
Yes!
Nice to hear that the padkontrol is nice and that the white version is the one to get cause i was gonna to buy one and didn't care what color to get
Now i know what i need 😊 😉 (maschine mk3). Thanks you very much!
Just boughtba MPD218. Think I've been super lucky. Worked close to flawless aside from the odd ghost beat (picking up unwanted pad activation) loosened the screws on the circuit board by 8th of a turn and that has now completely stopped and even the velocity/sensitivity of the pads has improved. After watching all your videos I was excited but skeptical. Guess I found treasure on this hunt. Thanks for the info and have to say great technique on the pads you have there man.
Love the vibes bro
I hated my 218, pads would get dirty/sticky easily, pads would double trigger, and the bottom row pads would rattle the device. Picked up a maschine mk3 and that thing is perfection, best pads since the legacy MPC pads, the solid grey pads on the old standalone machines were so soft from an era before studio equipment lit up like a Christmas tree. In my personal experience, any pads that come on keyboard controllers are usually terrible.
I agree with everything you're saying here:-)
i just checked out a few other videos on this channel and this might be the BEST channel on youtube! SUBSCRIBED AND NOTIFICATIONS ON!
Hahaha, thank you! You just made my day!!
Awesome! I was really looking forward to seeing your take on the Atom. While you certainly don't seem to be blown away by it, the size and price were already tempting and now I might just have to get it. I only have an MPKmini and the pads are deplorable. Thanks again!
Yeah it's great for the money. Just not as good as another device that $100 more or two other devices that are a couple of $100's more. :-)
It's exactly where it should be in terms of price/quality which is a great achievement.
I hit that sub button when you said, "Shit just got real." And I don't regret it.
Haha thanks man, welcome aboard!!!
@@TheQuestforGroove Read your blog post for the updated recommendations, too! They're so great and detailed. Thank YOU.
Once again thanks for this review of almost every possible pad device in the market. I don’t have usd600 to spend so mikro mk3 is my best choice. This will add to my existing s88 mk2, m32 and Audio 2. Omg I’m all with Native Instruments right now and I’m happy with every device they came out! Thanks for making my decision much easier. Mikro mk3 I’m cmng to get you later!
Cool video! I bought the MK mikro, its not too expensivr but still has quality
I currently own an ATOM and an MPD218 and I have to say there is definitely a trade off between the two devices. MPD218 I feel responds to a lighter touch, but doesn't have a great velocity curve. The ATOM on the other hand I have to hit a little bit harder but responds much better to my playing. I feel like both devices have a tragic flaw however. While the MPD218 has double triggering issues, my ATOM will often drop notes when playing 16th note patterns on one pad (aka snare / hi hat rolls). I have never had dropped notes on the MPD218 so I think one is only better than the other depending on what style of drumming you are trying to play with them. I personally find myself using the MPD218 more often.
Thanks for your two cents! My guess is that if you own a good mpd218 it can be better than the atom I guess. Problem is that you usually get a bad device nowadays .
Did not know about the note repetition... I did check but since I have two pads for snares, kicks and hihats it usually only happens s when doing stuff on the Toms.
Thanks again, always good to hear how these devices are doing across the world!
love the production and videos... you are great guy and true inspiration
Very informative video, as i begin the hunt for my first drum pad controller.
Yeah right now my 'quick' recommendation summary is:
- Maschine mikro mk3
- If you have clear plans for using more pads, then get a launchpad pro mk3
- Nektar aura is also a good choice but you have to configure it very precisely. Did another video about that.
If you have less to spend:
- Launchpad X
- Presonus atom
I have not heard of any controller never having any problems. A lot of people buy the mikro mk3 for example and on the qfg message boards there were a few unlucky people who had to send it back and get a working device back in return. Same for the atom or the launchpad x. I do think its rare that you g see t a bad unit, but keep that in mind and keep the receipt. All people who exchanged the unit got a good one in return.
Thanks so much for the video dude!
Top quality content as always.
Thanks for the great information. This gave me insight on which devices to start off with and to upgrade to. I love finger drumming and currently I use a mobile app called Drum Pads 24. As of now, I plan on getting the Akai mpd218 as a step-up beginning controller, but I’m also considering the Atom, since I’ve heard that a lot of 218s are inconsistent. Once I get better, I plan on finally getting the Big Maschine. Thank you so much for your time!
I think atom is underrated in this video. I use it long time making my beats and it super responsive, specially when u r user of Studio One DAW❤
Let me share my own experience with the few devices I have owned.
The pad controller with the best sensitivity I have ever had is the old MPD32 WITH the pad upgrade kit installed. It was amazing, I felt that I was in full control of my hit-hats (I love recording them h hats). Unfortunately I had to get rid of it because it was too big/chunky and the faders broke (accident).
I replaced my MPD32 with 3 devices over the past 3 years... MPD218, Push2 and MPC Live. I had the chance to buy any of the Machine controllers at some point (when the MK3 got released) but I opted for the MPC Live.
The MPD218 had good sensitivity but always double triggered samples or just did not detect some of my inputs, it felt inaccurate and I was sad. The looks, built, size... it is the dream pad controller and I still own it because it is great in a way... but the moment I got the Push it stopped being my main controller.
Push2 felt waaay more sensitive and of course 64 pads. The problem with Push (and Ableton) is that it is also unreliable! This is a known "glitch" that they have not solved even after Live 10; everytime you go from a track that's got a simpler in slice mode to session view (in the Push) and then back to the track with the simpler... the sensitivity DOES NOT adjust. Sensitivity is just terrible, the worst ever... and the only way to fix that is by going back to classic mode and then back again to slice mode. It ruins my workflow in so many ways... terrible.
Finally the MPC Live, which I chose over the Maschine because the pads felt very comfortable, fatter, and of course standalone, 6 hours battery... it is a dream. The pads are not as sensitive as the Maschine, that is kind of true... but it felt more satisfying to play.
Thank you so much for all this useful information!
Indeed. I sold the MPD32 because of the size. I got the MPD218 and the size is perfect but the double triggering is driving me mad. I've placed tape on the sensors and removed the center screws on the inside board. This has helped but still double triggering occurs. I keep on tweaking it but not with 100% reliable result. Whenever you loosen tighten the corner screws the boars seems to move around. This plays a big part in the bugy behaviour.
they should create a new pro version with stable and sensitive pads, 16 levels and maybe transport controls. The demand is huge and it would sell as the number 1 generic padcontroller on the market.They are missing out!
They absolutely should. I would gladly pay $200 for a well tuned mpd218
Completely new to drum pads yet I feel very secure trusting your words. Thanks for some great reviews!
Welcome to the club! :-) let me know if you have questions.
The Quest for Groove Thanks man :) I seem to lean towards Maschine Mikro for purely cosmetic reasons (since I find the Atom kinda ugly). But what holds me back is that I’m not really interested in using the Maschine software. It’ll mostly make my projects more cumbersome. How big deal would you say that is, how easy is it to use directly in a DAW?
Also, where are you at? Finland?
I'm in Amsterdam Netherlands. And I only use my controllers in midi mode inside a daw. I have a big maschine and never used the software Haha.
The mikro can be used in midi mode but you cannot change the notes it sends out. Which means that in midi mode you need to combine it with software instruments that have midi learn functionality. I use addictive drums 2 for drumming and the midi learn function is excellent.
So the mikro in midi mode plus addictive drums is a killer combo!
The Quest for Groove Wow My guess was way out then 👌 So in midi mode, you don’t even have to open the software?
Exactly. If you go to my website questforgroove.com and sign up for the free beginner course (seriously, no secret marketing trick here) you'll get info about what to buy and also a step by step setup guide for maschine mikro mk3 and addictive drums.
Excellent review, thanks a lot!!
Thank you so much for this video! I just returned my MPD226. The sensitivity and responsiveness was pretty bad.
I just received the Mikro MK3 and so far love how the pads respond. Now its just a matter of learning the Maschine software. Im not a fan of how it limits integration with your DAW.
At least with the MPD I could plug it in and record midi notes into Logic while running MPC. It seems like such a hassle with Maschine. Thats a separate issue though. So far I’m very happy with the hardware and midi mode. Keep making great videos 🙌🏼
Hey Sefa,
Yes it is actually a concern of mine that when Native Instruments gets too much marketshare, they will abuse their power, ditch midi standalone mode altogether and start forcing everyone to use their software. Apple / Microsoft style.
So let's hope that other companies step up their game and start producing kickass midi controllers :-)
@@TheQuestforGroove I agree! Hopefully they will see this video and realize they should be catering to all instead of just one platform. Quick question, while in midi mode on the Mikro MK3, is there a way to change the pad banks? With the MPD I just push bank to cycle through them, but I can't find any information on how to do this with Maschine in midi mode. Thanks for your help.
It seems to not be there. The mikro just maps all pads and knobs to a set midi note and that's it.
The big mk3 does have pad banks but they really toned down the midi support to the bare minimum with the mikro which is exactly why I'm a little scared they're gonna keep pushing the envelope towards abolishing midi in the future.
@@TheQuestforGroove I already experienced this... if you buy the Maschine without software, in some cases you can't enable midi standalone. If anyone buys a maschine second hand, they need to be really careful.
Yeah that makes sense. I noticed I had to fire up maschine software (updated to latest version) one time before I could switch on midi mode so indeed, without the software you're screwed.
I've been watching a bunch of reviews of these controllers. I can't believe how bad some of them are, especially the Akais. What is the point of having a pad to trigger a sound if it doesn't work consistently? You're better off just using a keyboard if the pads are that bad. Good to see that the Maschines and Pushes are quality gear. At least you can be confident that you can get something good for a little more money. Thanks for the great reviews, you're the man!
Last week I watched this video. I stopped it and decided to buy the Mikro. Dude, that thing is my favourite toy right now. Totally worth it.
Haha, so great to hear man! Have fun with it!
very good work, man! appreciate it!
Thanks!
Thank you so much for the great information..
Make sure to check out my 2021 video as well! ua-cam.com/video/yO27H_Cq7bM/v-deo.html
Korg Pad Kontrol is the best. I have the old white model but it’s still amazing in 2019
Yeah, it's pretty astonishing they could make that 10 years ago and somehow cannot do it anymore with the black pad kontrol.
Agreed its the best I've use, way better than the MPC touch, you can almost blow on it and get a sound out of it.
Great video! For me, in terms of pad feeling, the mpc live is my favourite 😉
Yeah I understand completely. I don't rule out the possibility that one day I'll change my mind.
Its kinda like with guitars. You have a stratocaster, telecaster, les paul, all great guitars but they all have something different. Theres no real right or wrong there... just how you feel personally about them at a certain point in your career as an artist.
The mpc live is very nice. Shows that akai can build good stuff and that they should deliver this quality to more of their devices. If the mpd series had mpc live pads... I would forget native instruments even existed :-)
@@TheQuestforGroove true..
I am still tweaking my MPD218. The size is perfect. I am experimenting with the screws. I have removed the ones in the middle. Also I have placed tape inside on top of the pad sensors. The response is good but still there is double trigerring.. I will try adding an extra layer of tape this time on the bottom of the pads..
Another thing people may wanna consider is the mpk249, I have one and I like the pads but if the settings are set up exactly like I use them it does a little ghost noting. But when I have it on...
velocity sensitivity 9
Velocity curve exp 2 log 2 or linear for some things
Vel Threshold 7-9
I didn't love the board, keys or pads at first (I come from triton le and mpc 1000 so little spoiled b4) but I have slowly fallen more and more in love with the mpk249. I played a few different mpd228 and 18s and the mpk24 and was like wow I thght my mpk249 felt cheap lol! I like maschine studio and mk3 pads better but not many other pads I wld take over mine now, especially on a keyboard although I also have a nektar impact lx25 and the pads are decent on it too but more like the mpd lineup (hard no play or squessh in the pads) but at the end of the day I cld play any and almost all pads if I had to lol
Great learn mode, pad bank A-D, pads can change colors for on and off, then on of my fav that I didn't like too much at first is the 3 control banks (same midi ch when new) w 30 presets so u can leave the A bank as a universal and then change the controls for B and/or C comtrol bank on 30 different presets.
MPK249 has one one the worst keybeds I have ever used.
@Hammy Havoc lol I kinda like it, but def know what u mean, I have noticed mine and most that I've seen slump in the middle a little like a u. But you must not have played some of these other cheaper MIDI controllers cause I have 2 I won't name that are terrible like not even close how bad they are, they both have pads and are fairly close in size too.
@Hammy Havoc the velocity scale is what causes the problems like I like the way the keys feel and play but if I change the velocity scale at all its like instantly unplayable, like wtf I changed it 1% and now I cld punch it and not get a sound.
Great review! It was very helpful.
I've just found this channel... Thanks a lot!
I bought Akai MPD 218 recently and I got to your video after many other reviews. These are not ultra-sensitive and best pads they ever made like they market them. Device is quite close to poor. Some pads sensitivities differ from each other and you just dont get sound with softer touch . So its hard to create rally good human groove or play more precisely.
I am just very dissapointed because i was exicted about my first drum pad and i thought it will be much better as build one in my novation midi keyboard. I have no experience with “older models” though, but most seen reviews on YT are 2-3 years old and they still mislead people to these days...
In coclusion, I dont recommend to purchase MPD 218 to anyone. Thanks for the video:)
Thanks for sharing and confirming my suspicions!
I just recently bought the Akai MPSD218, so far I'm satisfied with it. Without experience with any other pad controller, how could I know if I have a "good" or a "bad" one?
Honestly, if you play it and it seems to respond well you have a good one. You will immediately know you have a bad one because one or more pads simply don't respond well to soft touches and you miss notes and stuff like that.
After extensive use of maschine gen1, maschine mikro gen 1, akai mpc x and 2 different korg pad controls, I can most definitely say, that korg has no doubt best pads sensitivity and playability. Did try maschine gen 3 , but didn't find it much different from maschine gen 1 (in terms of pads sensitivity) The worst out of all i played was mpc x so far
did you use a black one or a white one? the statement in the video got me a bit worried, because after using a white one with great satisfaction for years, I got a black one coming and this is the first time Ive heard that the black ones are actually different. for me, the pads on the padkontrol are actually better than the maschine mk2.
@@brmbkl white
100% correct about the deterioration of MPD line. MPD32 was amazing. 226 was trash.
I played a nice mpd226 in 2017 but the one in the review is not the same whatsoever.
what about the mpd24
Haven't played that one. My guess is not spectacular. I tried so many akai devices by now. You gotta get into the more expensive controllers to get serious quality.
2 years and you are still liking comments you a legend 👏
Haha, thanks! I'm also simply not so successful that the comment section is too overwhelming. :-)
Very nice reviews of the different pads and good explanations for varying budgets & needs. Well, I've got the opportunity to get a cheap used Akai MPD 218 (older production line) and will try to be successful on my "treasure hunt". If I'm able to test before buying it, do you have any on-the-go, imitable methods & tips to check if the sensitivity and playability are okay (within the DAW)?
Yeah well, the best thing to do is to make sure you somehow play a maschine (mikro) mk3 first. Then you can check if a beat that you were able to play on the mikro also works on the mpd218. Then it's a good one :-)
If that's not possible just give each pad a few soft taps. Are all pads responding the same? That's a good sign. Do you need to give it a serious hit before a pad lights up? Thsts bad
I actually just got the MPD218 two weeks ago along with an Akai Fire!
If they work for you they work! Don't wanna spoil anybodys fun :-) Its always a surprise what you get with those cheaper akai devices though. Sometimes they're great and then
.. they're not. I hope you were one of the lucky folks!
The main weakness of the NI devices are the Pots which wear out fast, first the have different resistance, then parameter jumps until total failure.
I’m fine with my Presonus Atom. Learning Studio One 4 and this at the same time.
Can you use the Atom with iPad apps? Thanks.
You might be able to, but the atom is designer to be user with a regular computer. Its actually optimised for presonus studio one, but it can be used with all software.
My guess would be that if you have an app on your ipad that can read incoming midi data you can hook up the atom via some sort of lightning port adapter and then you should be able to get results.
It does not seem like the most straightforward way to use this thing though!
I am still struggling. I don't understand why non of these companies have created a super simple and good responding (maschine's pad response) compact (mpd218) pad controller? The demand is huge.
Yeah it's insane... especially since akai started out with great mpd218s and slowly started to diminish the quality.
The reason is to sell as many bundled vst software and libraries only with more expensive products.Quite sad manipulation tactics those manufacturers do.They would not sell expensive devices if people would chose cheaper good controllers for 80 USD and got two drum libraries for another 80USD. 160 USD vs 500USD.I hope this makes it clear how they lower the quality of the gear.
Innovators dilemma...ripe for disruption
Love your video! Thanks so much.
Can you share with me your mpc live pad settings please? Threshold, curve, sensitivity... Thanks!!!
Ok I'll check. What I can say from the top of my head:
- curve linear
- threshold and sensitivity as low as possible. If you set them both to 1, you'll get a lot of ghost triggering. So then set them to 2, then 3 until the ghost triggering stops. Then you have the perfect setting in my opinion :-)
@@TheQuestforGroove please! In my mpc live curves comes as options from A to D. Thanks for your response.
I came from a Maschine Mk2 and I'm looking for setting Live as close to MK2 as possible
I'll get back to you today.
Great-great job, as usual, man! I really appreciate this test on all those devices!!! I suggest you a new challenge... What about Akai MPC Studio? David Haynes changed for it after he worked 2 years on Maschine Mk2.... and the reason was just the pad sensitivity, he said! Is it only an "endorsement issue"?
I bought one when he talked about it years ago and the pads sucked... now they have the mpc studio black which supposedly has better pads so... yeah might need to check that out!
What about the launch keys mk3 pads for finger drumming ? Also is the padlontrol still a good buy in 2020. ? Found one for 60
The launchkey mini mk3 pads were pretty good! So yeah, if you want a small keyboard plus some pads I can recommend it. A white pad kontrol can also still be a great controller but it will depend on how worn out it is. If somebody has hit those pads a million times they will be less sensitive.
Hey, ur videos are great. Subscribed!
Thanks!
Very good video, A while back I purchased a Used Black Korg PADKontrol , pretty cheap. I recently wanted to use it and realized that the pads didn't work very well. I found a Video called "Korg Padkontrol sensitivity fix" where he put black electrical tape under the pads. I tried it a put 2 layers and was amazed at how well it worked. The next struggle is that the WINDOWS assigns a number to the MIDI devices and Korg can't work with numbers above 9. This took some fiddling around and some new words, but I did get it working.
I just bought an alesis vi25 and it hasn't arrived yet. I ordered before finding this channel. I'd be interested to see how it tests.
I'm also interested in that Alesis vi25 because it has 16 drum pads.
I'm trying to decide between the following because 16 drum pads is a must for me... the Akai MPD226, Alesis vi25 and Novation Launchkey 25 (the regular 25-key not that "25-mini" toy)....
but now this guy is saying the Akai MPD226 is not the greatest quality, damn I was thinking of getting it this week. :(
Whatever 16 pad controller I get has to work great with my Ableton Live 10 software btw.
I guess back to doing more research.
@@DJDAMIAN72 ive heard the pads on the 226 arent great. i would definitely recommend the vi25's pads because I would bet they have to be more sensitive than the others. They are extremely sensitive pads. My only issue with the vi25 is it seems to have a unique algorithm that sometimes causes a double tap. im not sure if its something thats been fixed in the fireware update yet or not. but it should.
i've wanted to reach out but alesis doesnt have social media.
@@shoeengine1161...
That double tap is usually an indication of low quality pads, unless it can be changed with sensitivity settings.
You should make a video showcasing that Alesis controller, not many out there and when I check online music stores it's never on the best sellers... I did find one youtube video and the dude said he loved it but he said that those 24 small midi assignable buttons are really cheap and some stopped working so he did some weird modification where he cut a big whole where the buttons were to access the actual sensors below, he left that controller looking like an ugly frankenstein keyboard! Lol
He did say the 25 semi-weighted keys & the 16 drum pads were very good, according to him, so who knows, not much seems to be known about this keyboard, I would think it would be really popular since it's one of the only two keyboard on the market I've ever seen with 25 keys and 16 pass, the Alesis vi25 & the Novation Launchkey 25, not that toy looking launch key mini but the regular 25-key, all those "mini" keyboards with mini keys for people with midget fingers look like trash toys to me! lol
@@DJDAMIAN72 its an algorithm, not really necessarily an indicator of quality. its just a code setting. QFG has touched on it with other controllers.... usually these things get updated through firmware.
I honestly cant imagine a keyboard controller with more sensitive 16 pads than the vi25 tbh... i would be very surprised.
for now im trending toward using my maschine mk3 only as of late... partly because of the double tap thing on the vi25.
i dont find the buttons to be cheap. i think the whole unit is pretty quality in my opinion. the weighted keys are what got my attention, the 16 pads caught my interest, and the price sold me.
@@shoeengine1161 ... Yeah that Alesis iv25 does look very dope but it's weird no one ever talks about it on youtube, like the dude in this video is very informed & knows his shit but him too doesn't even mention it, maybe because it's more of a keyboard... but like you I would be very interested in him reviewing it.
As of this week now I'm leaning towards the Novation Launchkey Pro, I don't know why I never really considered that one, till I saw this dude mention it and I remembered seeing it, I didn't know it was only $300, when I saw it in the past I thought it was as expensive as the push so I wasn't interested, plus I thought those small pads might suck, till I saw this dude say they were really good, then I checked other people's videos and they all said it was dope, so I think I'm going with the Novation Launchkey Pro! :)
You right about maschine mk3. Best quality software included, Native instruments is the best.
Thanks! I personally prefer a more 'traditional' daw that's less loop based so I use the device in midi mode, but yeah, they really put in the work to make it have a nice workflow and stuff!
just ordered my white padKONTROL (used) but i cnt wait
I hope it's as nice as mine and you're gonna have a blast!
The Quest for Groove yeah I had a mpd8 that I didn’t expect much from but the pads need to be brutally slapped to get the slightest response, Korg has always had good velocity so I know it’ll be good
Part of me wanted to come back and bash on you for certain things about these devices that are so important that are so lacking in the most affordable, highest rated by you ... but I can’t because you clarify that it’s about playability. Lol. But I do suggests you stick with apples if your talking apples and don’t talk crap on oranges if your oranges can be physically modified like any playable instrument and the makers of the oranges have vastly improved the quality and selection that they offer. .. still - great videos. Your honest about your intention and call it dependent on your needs .... that being said some of us are more concerned with being able to interface with our own sampled sounds and kits and would be incredibly upset if we took home a Native Instruments Maschine and realized that it’s not exactly a “midi controller”. I’ll look for a better link on the physical breakdown and set up for AKAI pads.
Hey thanks for sharing! Pad controllers are so much more than just the pads and they're being used in many different ways by many people. Totally agree. The reason I started doing a pad sensitivity video was that that seemed to be one of the things other gear reviewers never talked about. When I look on UA-cam theres a lot of info about workflow and stuff like that but not about the pads.
By the way, at the moment the presonus atom still has that problem with not being able to configure the notes of the pads but maschine mikro mk3 got a firmware update with a fully functional standalone midi option including assigning any note or cc controller to any pad or knob!
I bought the Presonus ATOM last week, last night I bought the NI Maschine MK3 ! YAAAAS!!! Itll be here Wednesday! My wife is gonna FREAK!
Hahaha, welcome to the world of groove my friend :-)
I just got an MPD 226 and I’ve found it to be slightly better than my MPD218. The 226 sensitivity control does not seem to do much though. I really love the feel of the MPD pads. Nice and chunky and there’s something nice about the black pad tops with led colours underneath. Still though strictly for sensitivity purposes neither is super sensitive, though I’ve found for my current heavy handed pad drumming the 226 sensitivity is acceptable. I’m sure as my style develops more refinement I will want a better performing pad though the jump in price to get similar pads on the Mpc live is quite a bit considering I really only want the pads and not the standalone-ish-ness. (Plus the live looks like a brick). I don’t need all the features of Maschine either. I think I’m going to wait and see what 2019 brings in terms of new pad controllers. Right now for equivalent of 300-ish Usd I have two sets of pads which I can practice the basics, one pad for each hand which is good value. Sure two atoms would cost the same but then it’s got those little pads.
Here’s an idea Rob,
Lots of people love their MPC style pads, sensitive or not. What would be awesome would be if you could get some of the pad tweaking gear from Mpcstuff and see if the thick pads and pad corx make a difference to the MPD218 or 226, or whether it destroys the feel and has strange side effects.
Hey Stuart,
I think you're in a good place as far as gear goes right now if you look at where you are in your playing.
I'll do an mpcstuff video at some point for sure although this would be more of a 'fun' video than a serious recommendation because as a matter of principle I don't want to make my official statement: "yeah finger drumming is fun and easy, just get this controller and then take it apart and basically build your own controller and then it works"!
I think companies should just deliver quality products that don't need tweaking to get them to do one if the core things they're supposed to do.
We'll talk about this on Sunday! :-)
@@TheQuestforGroove Awesome... Rob, yes I agree these devices should work reliably at a basic level as you say, but on the other hand the prospect of tweaking any instrument to make it your own can be lots of fun :)
btw anyone else reading this I highly recommend you join Rob's Patreon. If you are into finger drumming or just starting out Rob is well worth supporting.
@@scribblygumsartist True. There's this one part of all normal pad controller devices which is basically a sheet of conducting ink that is used to determine if a pad triggers and how much pressure is applied. That ink rubs off over time. I've been emailing with mpcstuff about the fact that they should start producing these ink sheets for the maschine mk3 series. I suspect the first maschine mk3 devices will start failing in 2019 because for example I must have hit my hihat pad a couple of million times by now :-)
Thank you very much for this video. I think I will jump the shark and get the Mikro Maschine 3*, skipping the "teenage rebel Akai phase"... I'm currently autodidact-ing myself towards proper musicianhood by playing piano and I've made some huge progress in songwriting thanks to it, hence why I want finger drumming to be my next venture, besides being really attracted. I am keeping an eye on Andreas' (XpressPads) courses and yours for when I'll get something on my hands.
Anyways, my only controller with drumpads is the Korg nanoKey Studio I recently bought, but it's not impressing me at all. Pads are one chunky hard piece of gum, awkward sensitivity - I guess, as I turned velocity off pretty quickly - and triggering issues, etc... and of course there's just 8 pads as it's an all-in-one solution. Won't explain further but even if I know some of it is my DAW's fault, I'm not really into it at all regardless, not even for casual input which doesn't require a 4 by 4 setup. Full stop.
*Unless they whip out a Mikro 4 this summer, lol, it's been almost 3 years. BTW, did the updates fix that note thing you mentioned? I'm a home composer/producer and not a live performer so that part barely triggered me at all, but still.
Hey thanks for sharing! The note stuff has been fixed with the mikro mk3 so I can recommend it as best value for money!
Akai quality control hasn't gone down - it's ALWAYS been bad! About 9 years ago, I got an MPD 18. It's so bad, you need drumsticks to play it. Even hard slamming isn't enough to trigger the pads properly.
Thanks for sharing! I had a glorious year in 2017 where I bought some great Akai mpd218s... so I back then believed akai was pretty great. :-)
@@TheQuestforGroove Yeah, QC is such a minefield! I might've been unlucky, I was too young to know. I've been using a Steinberg CMC PD, sensitivity is perfect (but it's tiny). I'll be getting a Mikro or an Atom soon, thanks for the in-depth reviews!
Also consider an ESI Xjam. Did a review about that recently.
Subscribed when he said "shit just got real"
Since the bigger Maschine MK3 is the best controller, is it the best option for someone who is sort of new to finger drumming? I have use pad controllers in the past, but that was years ago and I don't remember how they feel to use. So I would basically have to relearn everything. Or is it better to get the Maschine Mikro MK3 instead?
I use Ableton Live for everything. And I don't plan on using the Maschine software often (since Ableton already does everything Maschine can do).
I also found out that the bigger Maschine can control Ableton transport, clips, scenes and some other things. So maybe that would be a good addition if the integration with that function is easy to setup and get working.
If you can afford it, a big maschine will be a great purchase. Also, now that MPCstuff sells pad sensor sheets, you can easily "refresh" it once the pads wear out so it's become a better investment than before.
Can you tell us more about what is wrong with the roli?
The way it senses hits makes is less suitable to create two or more pressure points with one hand at the same time. The controller does not like that. As soon as you use two hands (which will always be a few milliseconds apart from one another) the sensor system knows what to do but if two pressure points are created at the exact same time (so hitting with one hand) it gets confused. Same goes for Linnstrument and Sensel Morph.
Maschine mk3 pads are dope
What do you think about Akai MPC One? Is Novation Circuit series good for fingerdrumming?
Well with the circuit you think you have for rows of pads, but you actually have two rows and then two rows for the sequencer. So you have less drum pads than you think. For me it was not very useful since I could not set up a 4x4 grid on the thing.
@@TheQuestforGroove thank you for answer. And thanks for your videos, great and very useful stuff! Honestly I don't have a plan to become greatest fingerdrummer, I am already rather known harmonica player, but I want to add some fingerdrumming to my show, but I don't want heavy stuff. I already have a lot of harmonicas, pedals, amps etc, with me so I don't want to have laptop (and I don't own working laptop right now). Usually we have real drummer, so I plan to trigger some 808 samples for some parts. I already own AKAI MPX8 and AKAI MPK mini play. Both are standalone but both are 2x4. However so much tutorials recommend 4x4 layout. I think it is also useful to fingerdrum for my overall timing. My fingerdrumming timing is so bad now comparing to my harmonica and guitar timing, so I sure if I overcome it will be useful for my harmonica playing too. Does it worth to become good on 2x4 layout before getting 4x4, is 2x8 ok to start? Or it is better to get 4x4 from the beginning?
I think 4x4 is the easiest way to get started honestly. It allows for quickly playing some basic beats. With 2x4 stuff gets a little complicated and in a way with the small pads on the 8x8 stuff gets complicated too. Using fingerdrumming to improve timing is absolutely a great thing! I recently made a video about how it improved my guitar playing :-)
So true about MPD series. A month ago I've bought 218 and in about an hour I found that it's a rubbish device - because of bad pad sensitivity and double triggering. Looking for Maschine Mikro now...
Yeah so crazy to think I played Stewart Copeland on an mpd218 and it played and sounded great. These things are just not how they used to make them...
check out some videos of people doing pad fixes on their mpd's. i just found out about this. basically its a requirement to upgrade the pads (they come with pad sensors too). but once you upgrade the pads on the mpd its supposed to be butter... one of the best feels. my pads are on the way.
Hi! Do any of you know if there is any way to know if/when a 218 is bad or good (when looking for second hand devices, with no way to try them out)? Are there any "good" range of serial numbers or production years to look for?
Not that I know of. When ordering 5 units from the same store at the same time quality varied... so it seems like a gamble right now.
OK. A true gamble then...
I can get hold of one for $50, that is 2-3 years old. It's my first finger drumming pad, so I don't want to spend too much yet. I can always do an upgrade to something better later, if I want to advance.
Great channel, I’m teaching myself piano at the moment and recording with Logic, also want to get up the finger drumming skills.
Welcome aboard!
Roland HandSonic HPD-20 "World tour" featuring Kornél Mogyoró
ua-cam.com/video/pEvesiif25c/v-deo.html
Awesome!
Great comparison, just bought a lightpad M (2nd hand) last week, not very impressed with it as pad controller. Might sell it and get a Maschine Mikro or PreSonus
Please include a (2nd hand) push 1 as well in your next comparison, as you can get those for about 150 euros as well, much less than the Push 2
Thanks will keep that in mind.
From what I heard after publishing this video the lightpad blocks require more of a 'pushing' playing style than a hitting one. Whuch does not work for me at all but apparently some folks got used to it and like it now :-)
I‘m sad you don’t like the ROLI Lightpad... it has become the center of my setup 🙈 I also had some problems in the beginning with it, but after some major firmware updates (did you use the latest firmware?) it’s now a really great controller! Compared to all the other ones you tested it has two major benefits which are (1) portability and (2) flexibility but also downsides wich are (1) size of the buttons, they can be two small for some playing styles or require more than one Lightpad and (2) it’s just different kind of playing surface... the last one could also be a plus, just depends if you like it or are willing to learn the playing technique which can be a hassle if you’re used to play a traditional pad controller! Yes, Lightpads are probably less sensitive than the big Maschine (I played on one before) but their surface just requires a different playing style and also a slightly different setup of the software instruments! It took me a while until I managed the transition between my AKAI MPD218 (and I have a super sensitive one) and my Lightpads, but now I don’t want to miss the versatility of them 😎
Thanks for your two cents! I did update to latest firmware yes.
I do think the problem with the lightpad block is that it's almost the price of a maschine mikro and it really does not allow me to use moeller technique, or do some more advanced hits with my thumbs.
For one because it's too small and secondly because it's not sensitive enough. For moeller technique the controller has to trigger from the weight of your hand falling down and it just doesnt.
Maybe it needs a little more 'pushy' playing style instead of 'hitting'. That could be... I'm gonna make a song with the lightpad block next week so I'll take your comments into account and see if I can find a way to get used to it.
By the way one more thing: I'm happy that you found a finger drumming device that works for you and that makes you happy because it fits into your way of playing and creating. If that's the roli lightpad block for you then I cannot really disagree with you about the fact that it is awesome. Because is is for you. So yeah... that. :-)
Yes, you got it! It definitely needs a more pushy instead of hitting playing style... but also with the after touch possibilities it opens up new ways that traditional controllers can’t offer 😉
Looking forward to watching your Lightpad video!!
SWONIC i wonder can it be used for playing tabla (its my dream, but Korg Wavedrum is to expensive)
If you want to add another Lightpad M to your setup and buy/swap mine for your MPD218, let me know ;)
Thank you for a greate video.
I'm seeing all of these old reactions for the first time. No idea what happened! But thank you!
i was at a shop today looking for the most sensitive finger drumming pads.. and i could not find a singer one.. that matches my desires..
But i can tell you that Alesis have keyboard with pads that actually the most sensitive that i ever felt.. and that what im looking for.
some that will be like touching a phone screen AKAI mpd 218 and 226 disapointed me and also The ATOm.. i could not find a 16 pads finger drumming machine that will match
Great video, helped me a lot.
I got and Akai MPD218 for Christmas as my first drum pad, after seeing all their marketing and good reviews from everyone, so I was very excited... only to find I literally had to smash the pads to get maximum velocity, and still apply in my opinion too much pressure to trigger them.
So now I'm on the fence about buying an used PadKontrol and an used Maschine Mikro MK2, if you ever used the latter, which one of them would you recommend?
I think I would try to find a mikro mk3 to be honest. Maybe there are folks that are selling theirs already. Only important thing with a used maschine device is that you get the software licenses as well! You don't need the software when playing but you might need it to get everything activated and running.
Also, a mikro mk3 needs a firmware update before it can be used in midi mode!
The Quest for Groove thanks didn't know about the software being possibly needed for the setup of the Maschine, in fact I've seen really good offers for these devices where I live that probably don't include software for such a good price though. Will keep that in mind, thanks for pointing it out, and yeah at this point I'll try to find an used MK3 but that'd be a hard guess at least here in Italy haha. Thanks for the help and good work with the UA-cam channel!
What about the pad action on the Ableton Push 2? really interested to know how it holds up from a veteran perspective. I've heard the actions not great, and you should have a dedicated drum pad for the actual drumming inputs, but its still really good for controlling sequencing, etc.
Yes, please say us something about Push 2
I got an MPD 218 a month ago at the pawnshop for $60.
I can just rest my fingers on the pads and send brain signals to my digits. The pads pick up the neural synapses.
That’s pretty sensitive…
Korg is so slept on... Pad control has wave manipulation with left hand...
Yeah that's so cool. You can also do drum rolls and stuff like that with the XY pad. Strange nobody ever took that same idea and ran with it.
Is the white Korg better than the Maschine MK3 in terms of the pads' quality? Thanks for a VERY helpful video.
Yes in my experience it is.
@@TheQuestforGroove Wow, thanks for the instant response. So are all the white Korgs the old and better version as far as you know?
That's always a bit of a gamble. I own one, I know other people like their white pad kontrols. And I played two black pad kontrols that were not as good as my white one. But I don't know what would happen if you compare a 1000 black ones with a 1000 white ones.
@@TheQuestforGroove OK, thanks for your help.
Ok so i have watched a few videos today and have learnt a bit from you about latency and how it effects my timing. thanks for that. I never thought to check. and god dam 10 to 15 milliseconds makes a difference.(you helped fix my groove) lol. So now I am wondering about something. I have a Machine MK2 and Machine Micro MK2. when i run them through my Traktor Z2 sound card/mixer i get 23 to 33 milliseconds of Latency. I have tested this on two different computers. if i use either computers built in sound card i can get it under 10 milliseconds....... Now seeing that The MK3 has a built in sound card compared to the Mikro MK3 is the latency better on the Mikro or is the MK3 built to work it all out. Im well aware that the MK3 sound card will sound better but really wondering about latency... Also when the MK3 is just running off USB power is there any more latency than when you plug it in. Im trying to get the best sounding, low latency and portable finger drumming set up possible.......... Thanks bro. keep up the good work.
Hey man! The maschine mk3 built in soundcard is actually pretty damn good. They provide special drivers that are optimized for real time audio. If you use it you have to set the buffer size as low as possible and try and plug it in directly via usb. So no usb hub if that's possible. That should get you a very nice latency of under 6ms.
USB power does not have an effect at all on latency. The reason for not using a usb hub is that some hubs will create extra latency or even inconsistent latency where others work perfectly fine. Usually plugging in directly is a little more stable although on my computer I can use both options and they're both fine.
One more thing: when using the mk3 as soundcard you need to plug in all your headphones and speakers in there. Not in the audio out of your computer otherwise it won't work. Also the maschine mk3 audio driver has to be selected in every piece of audio software you use. So for example in addictive drums 2 standalone you have to select asio driver and then select the maschine as the device for processing audio. If you select a windows direct sound driver you'll get latency again.
The Quest for Groove thank you soooo much brother. Perfect news. really grateful there is ppl to ask these tech questions. Thanks again
The Quest for Groove ohhhh. Yeah. I usually use native instruments plugins. But yeah. I’m going to start checking all theses things all the time from now on. I learnt to much and realise how much a difference 15 milliseconds can make to the finer parts of your groove. ;) thanks again
Hello, thanks for that very informative video! Well done and very helpful. I am also on the hunt for a good piece of controller gear for finger and hand drumming. The first idea I had was to get a used Roland Handsonic HPD-10. Additionally to the midi capabilities it most probably has some very nice own sounds and probably very good pads. Do you have experience with a Roland Handsonic + Finger drumming? Thanks! Keep it up.
I have never played one but I have a good feeling about it. Looks like a sturdy, quality device! But yeah... if have to play one to be sure.
Good info
How good is the Live 10 integration of the ATOM? Do all the features on the device work??
I know the atom is basically built for Studio One, not for Ableton Live. But... Since it's a fully functional midi controller and ableton has midi learn for basically everything I assume you will be fine :-)
Great overview! I have a question though.
Can Maschine MK3 replicate the roll speed/volume that is achievable when using the Padkontrol's x/y pad?
Do you know what I mean? The x/y pad on Padkontrol can create AMAZINGLY dynamic drum rolls. BUT you need to keep a finger on the x/y pad to modulate them!
I want to buy an MK3 I just would like to replicate thus feature! Can you tell me?! Thanks a lot, it's a great series of vids you've done.
Hey, that type of roll is a pad kontrol exclusive im afraid. I don't miss it though. Love playing my machine. The pads respond better and give me an overall better sense of control.
Thank you so much ,especially for the mpd218 “treasure hunt”! I have one and although it triggers nice with almost zero double triggering,the pads are very stiff and unpleasant to play . Was so confused watching videos saying how great it is....The previous mpd18 had way better feeling although you had to mod (easily) the pads with tape to get equal triggering .
And will always regret selling the padKontrol :(
And another one: the problem you had with the MPC Touch, was in Midi mode triggering your usual Addictive Drum setup or were you running the MPC Software? Thanks!!!
It was all addictive drums. So I tested the thing as a midi controller. With the touch you have to route it through mpc software and that was very annoying.
It might be that using the mpc software only will fix the problem but I want to play 'real' kits, not just samples. So therefore the mpc touch will not work.
Keep in mind that I'm just talking about pad sensitivity and my way of finger drumming. So there might be tons of producers out there who would still love the devices I dismiss. For beatmaking or something. It just does not work for playing the way I play. :-)
@@TheQuestforGroove Thank you! Soon joining your advanced online courses!
Can you recommend any standalone device for fingerdrumming?
Not for my style of playing at the moment. I tested devices like the Maschine + and also Novation Circuit, but they're really don't sound and feel like you're playing on a drumkit. As long as you're more oriented towards electronic sounds it's ok, but otherwise standalone is not really a thing.
Hi great video I want to thank you so much for taking the time to review all the stuff and making this video I think it’s very useful sides by so I could Paris of all these different controllers is just in valuable,
That being said I took your recommendation a couple months ago after I watched a video and I bought the Korg PadKontrol (the white model as recommended) And I absolutely love it ONLY $60 on eBay
I was also blown away by the features and control of different parameters That could actually be changed right from device without putting it into a editor or using The proprietary software .
For a 10 year old device this things Kids do things that some of the brand new devices are doing it’s class compliance it does the toggle hold note repeat for cueing loops which I have not found in any of the MPC controllers
Some of these manufacturers should be ashamed of themselves trying to sell us shit for hundreds of dollars that can’t do what a 10 year old $60 controller can do!!!!
Do you know if the atom can audition toggle note repeat?
And example if press the button once the sale of the additions of kids play until you touch the button again
This is what I will be by the toggle note hold function
Hey Nate,
There might be note repeat available in the atom but I have not found it yet.
I think it might be working together with presonus studio one for extra functions.
Thanks for the reply!,,,sorry about all the typos in my post I got a turn off my auto correct lol
Haha yeah I was wondering...
mines good and you have to loosen the bottom screws too plus the mpd218 is stiff until you beak it in with your style....1 erk i wish the repeat button was a toggle button
Great video again! Thank you very much!
Here goes a quicky: Is there a way to change the pad bank in the Maschine Mikro MK3 by pressing only 1 button? (while playing)
Looks like group + 2 is the only way. Theres no 1 button to do this.
In midi mode you cannot switch pad banks at all by the way.
Awesome video! Quick question for the finger drum king: Is one of the differences between the MK3 Mikro and the big MK3 that the big MK3 produced fewer double-triggers? I just bought an MK3 Mikro and am already wondering if I should upgrade to the big one because the Mikro double-triggers quite frequently as I play it. And to be clear, by “double-trigger” I mean: You hit a pad once and it erroneously registers two hits in quick succession.
Yes this is something I noticed earlier. However, when I tested the mikro for the second time with upgraded firmware in midi mode somehow the problem seemed to be less. So if you don't have the latest firmware you can try installing that first and see if it helps. There might also just be a difference between midi mode and normal maschine mode.
What I can tell you is that my big maschine never double triggers in midi mode. I have not used it with maschine software so no idea about that.
@@TheQuestforGroove Thanks!
Thanks a lot！
I bought mpd218 right when it came out, so I guess I have one of the good ones ? yay :D
Lucky you!
About sensitivity i prefer my MPC element over the mpd218 but both are good :)
Yeah my guess is that back in the mpc element days, the mpd218s that were produced were better than the ones that come out of the factory now.
Hello and thank you for the reviews !!
MPD218 Seems a bang for its price , but recently very tempted between """ AKAI MPD32 VERSUS ARTURIA BEATSTEP PRO """" ____ Because of Quality Pads & Features.
But yoy neber reviewed the very much used BEATSTEP PRO | . Why ?
I think they are the most complete for about the hands on control .
Thoughts ?
I don't actually review every device available. I test out the ones that seem interesting to me and I can get my hands on.The beatstep pro at that time took a couple of weeks to get sent to the Netherlands, so I tested out the normal beatstep for a follow up video to this one, didn't like it and at that point didn't want to go and buy a beatstep pro anymore just to see if that one would be good. Also because the layout of the pads is not compatible with how I play and teach. So yeah, the pads might be good, but I could not really help you with this specific decision. All I can say is get a Maschine mikro mk3 or a Launchpad pro mk3 because I tested those extensively.
@@TheQuestforGroove Thank you for the complete answer. Yes, Launchpad pro mk3 would be the one as. I come from the hardware world. It got mini midi pin and its very powerful... just too big its enclosure I think unlike its thickness . ... Probably it is the best to work with hardware set up only. ( within beatstep&MPD) . Thank you