Mostly agree with you, only I would phrase it in terms of what kind of “reader” you are: «Tigana» is the best starting point for people interested in world building and interesting antagonists. If you are more character focused, “The Lions of Al-Rassan”. And “A Song for Arbonne” is probably GGK’s most “action”-heavy book, with the Mercenary Blaise of Gorhaut as the main POV, rather than his usual artisan/craftsmen protagonists . #TeamBlaiseHipster 😜
I think that mostly works, especially in text form when you are limited by not being able to type a 4 page essay. However I think it has some limitations. The main one being it only includes 3 books. Of I include Sarantine that is another more character focused story, probably even more than Al-Rassan. Not to mention Brightness, Under Heaven, The Last Light of the Sun, or The Summer Tree. The next would be that while for example, Lions is probably a little more character focused than Tigana. It is cloae enough that I could see plenty of people disagreeing, and basically all of them are good enough at characterisation that I wouldn't want people to avoid the setting or story they find more interesting, based on being worried that one has a weak setting or characters. When I would argue none od them do. So I think of someone asks on discord this is about as good as you can do in a written response, because everything is a trade off. I prefer doing it this way, and focusing more stylistically for a video where I can use 40 minutes of time
I started with Tigana, continued with A song for Arbonne and then went with Under heaven and River of stars. Based on this and your previous video I bought the Sarantine Mosaic.
Fantasitic! I hope you enjoy Sarantine. You have read a bunch of my favorites, but still actually have all 3 of my favorite GGK books to go, in Lord of Emperors, A Brightness Long Ago, and The Lions of Al-Rassan
Wonderful video, Jake! I own the Tigana ebook and just saw The Lions of Al-Rassan on the shelf in my local library. I might now be swayed to start with the latter first. I get this wonderful feeling sweep over me when reading the opening lines of those two books. I'm really excited to get to this author at some point!
Glad you enjoyed the video! As a bonus, if you start with Lions you get to be slightly cool for not starting with what everyone starts with. Both are fantastic books though
Let's goooooo!!!! This is the deep dive booktube content I am here for, and this couldn't possibly be a more relevant video as someone who owns most GGK books but hasn't started any. I'm def torn between overall pub order, his history book pub order, or just throwing caution to the wind and going for Lions or Under Heaven. At some point I just have to choose one and dive in soon. The paradox of choice!!
Hi Jake, I’ve just read my first GGK book, a brightness long ago. It’s a 5 star read for me, I’ve just bought 5 more of his books. It’s safe to say I’m a fan now. Really enjoyed this video to work out where I’m best to go to next.
Well done. I am a GGK fan going 15 years now - Sarantine Mosaic being I believe the closest to a near perfect story that has ever been written - and you got it all right as opposed to like you said a lot of misinformation out there about the several "worlds" Kay has created. I've read all the books (only could finish Fionavar out of allegiance to him) and I agree Arbonne gets looked over criminally both as starting points and as one of his best works.
Thanks for the list! I started with Lions in 2021 but got busy with other stuff and put it down near the end of chapter 8. I was enjoying it but needed to finish some library books before they were due back, etc. and never came back to it before All the Seas of the World was released. When All the Seas of the World was published, I read that it was connected to Children and Brightness. So I read Children in 2022, Brightness last year, and am currently about 2/5 through Seas. (I don’t read a lot and DNF; only finished 19 books last year.) When I finish Seas, my plan is to return to Lions and then hit Sarantine. I might slot Arbonne or Tigana in there. It seems like the best way to look at it might be to view the 5 (or 6) Mediterranean books as a loose series, probably best read in order: Lions, Sarantine, Children, Brightness, and Seas. And then slot in Tigana, Arbonne, Last Light, and Under Heaven whenever and in whichever order the mood hits you. And save Finovar and Ysabel for the end. So far Brightness is the best. I will probably name a pet or something (daughter?) for Adria Ripoli at some point.
Thanks Jake! I wanted to read GGK because of how much you love Hobb and this author (and I think you mentioned somewhere that you think Hobb fans will like his writing style), but didn't know you had a this video out. I have a Brightness Long Ago on my shelves so glad to hear that's a good place to start and your favorite standalone!
This was a great video ! You've done a lot with your content to make me very enthusiastic for GGK ! And apparently I'm a hipster because Song for Arbonne was my first GGK 😅
I only recently discovered your channel, and I think the more I watch, the more I enjoy your content. My issue with a lot of other booktubers is that they all seem to have almost identical tastes in books: mainly skewing towards fast-paced, "modern" fantasy writing styles with relatively straightforward prose. As a result, most do not rank GGK's work very highly, which saddens me to see. I feel like your tastes, on the other hand, are a little broader and more unique, and you have some interesting things to say! You definitely seem like an old soul at heart. Looking forward to seeing more from your channel!
Thanks a lot! I generally think I am a fan of most styles of fantasy books, as long as they are executed well, and GGK definitely fits in the camp of being executed well. Him not getting a lot of love is indeed unfortunate. Although at some point Phillip Chase, and Johanna(I recommend both channels)are going to read The Lions of Al-Rassan. And if they don't like it I will be shocked. I will patiently cultivate a GGK hype train.
My start with Guy Gavriel Kay was Tigana. Then I read A Song for Arbonne. Loved both books and am tempted to read The Saratine Mosaic. Thank you for doing this preferred reading order of a new favorite author of mine.
This is a really great guide, thank you! I randomly started GGK with a song for arbonne, which I really liked. Then I picked up Tigana which I dnfd, because I didn’t care for how the the female plot lines all revolved around sex and for the number of inner monologues and retelling instead of showing the plot. Maybe one day I’ll try another book by him and then I’ll definitely remember your guide :)
Excellent effort here Jake. Can't say I disagree with what you have to say, it all seems to make sense for new readers. I don't have the 'where to start question' as I read them as they were published. It is always good to find a newly published author who feels like they have the potential for great things, which I think the Fionavar Tapestry books did show. It's easy now to look back and say well that's not his best work, but in the 80's the books certainly showed promise.
I've already started my GGK journey, but I watched this whole video because I know how passionate you are about GGK. The Last Light of the Sun sounds really cool to me, might be my next one. Also nice thumbnail.
Fantastic video man. Think I’m gonna do Under Heaven first as I’m reading a lot of Asian/Asian inspired fantasy at the moment, and I’m excited but I can’t wait to read Al-Rassan, I think on paper that could be an all time fav book for me.
The only thing that upsets me about this video is that you got it up before my "where to start" video and that we basically agree 100% so I can't even bring some hot takes to mine 😅 Great video
Thank you for the video. I want to start reading Guy Gavriel Kay and was looking for some guidance where to start. Your ranking seemed really helpful, but just after finishing it, I found out that only Guy Gavriel Kay’s books currently available in Poland are “Children of earth and sky”, “The Fionavar Tapestry” and that’s it xD All the other books are sold out and it doesn’t seem like any publishing house will soon get them on the shelves again. I think he’s really not that popular in Poland :/ So, “Children of earth and sky” it is
Hey Jake, Thanks for this video. I haven't read any GGK and have purchased several and want to start reading some GGK and was planning on this order...do you concur or would you recommend these in a different order? Tigana, A Song for Arbonne, The Lions of Al-Rassan, The Sarantine Mosaic. Thats my order so far, but Im waiting to get your input. Thanks for this video - it was very helpful.
Jake, I need your input. I'm currently reading All the Seas of the World (I read CoE&S and then ABLA) but after this I'll only have 3 of the Non-Fionavar related books left: A Song for Arbonne River of Stars The Last Light of the Sun Which of these should I read next? I'm not worried about connections or whatever, I just want my first read of his standalones to end on a high. And because I'm excited for all 3 of them.
I think of those Arbonne is my favorite by a fair margin so you could save it for last. Most people like River of Stars more than Last Light of the Sun, but I slightly prefer Last Light. I think all 3 are really good
Eh, it's probably fine if you are loving it anyway. I would recommend in the future rereading it after you have read Under Heaven . The main reason I don't recommend starting with RoS is that I think it is slightly worse without Under Heaven, and for the people who are unsure if they want to continue, it makes more sense to start with something else. However, it doesn't really spoil the personal narratives of Under Heaven the way All The Sea's of the World does with Brightness
Excellent guide. As I said earlier, I did read Under Heaven years ago-pretty sure it was release year, but I didn’t track books then and can’t be too sure. Loved it and then got buried in school work. The time is now to get back into GGK and this guide will be my northern star. I do have a question for you though. How did you get GGK on your radar and did you read his oeuvre back to back? Take any breaks? Considering running through his works in the first half of 2023.
GGK got on my radar the way most people do. I heard people talk about his books, and say they liked them. So eventually I read Tigana and loved it. Then months later I read The Lions of Al-Rassan and loved it even more. Since then I have been reading 1 GGK book a month
Yeah fair enough. Mostly curious because I don’t see GGK talked about much and you seem to have taken a major liking to the work. I’m thinking this will be one of the big names in my 2023 TBR-hopefully enough to finish his full collection. Thanks again for your content, Jake. It’s really appreciated and love how you give space for other folks to find their way with the (albeit subjective) facts. Feelsgoodman.
Hmm I feel conflicted. I want to read more Kay and the only book of his that I ever read was Under Heaven, maybe seven or eight years ago. And I was bored. It didn't do anything for me and I hardly remember anything from it. But I think that was also because the Asian setting was not interesting for me. Perhaps I should try A Song for Arbonne or The Lion of Al-Rassan, because their settings appeal to me more.
Man I tried Lions of Al-Rassan and struggled. Was bored, couldn't keep track of all the characters because they're names were ridiculously complicated. This was the first GGK book I read. Should I try any others? If they're all similar to lions I think I'll just move on. Tigana kinda has my interest tho
1. Lions of Al-Rassan 2. Sarantine Mosaic 3. Tigana 4. Last Light of the Sun 5. A Song For Arbonne 6 Under Heaven 7. River of Stars 8. Children of Earth and Sky 9. A Brightness Long Ago 10. All The Sea's of the World If he is one of your favorite authors 11. The Fionavar Tapestry 12. Ysabel A lot of the ordering here is arbitrary, but there you go
Mostly agree with you, only I would phrase it in terms of what kind of “reader” you are:
«Tigana» is the best starting point for people interested in world building and interesting antagonists.
If you are more character focused, “The Lions of Al-Rassan”.
And “A Song for Arbonne” is probably GGK’s most “action”-heavy book, with the Mercenary Blaise of Gorhaut as the main POV, rather than his usual artisan/craftsmen protagonists . #TeamBlaiseHipster 😜
I think that mostly works, especially in text form when you are limited by not being able to type a 4 page essay. However I think it has some limitations.
The main one being it only includes 3 books. Of I include Sarantine that is another more character focused story, probably even more than Al-Rassan. Not to mention Brightness, Under Heaven, The Last Light of the Sun, or The Summer Tree.
The next would be that while for example, Lions is probably a little more character focused than Tigana. It is cloae enough that I could see plenty of people disagreeing, and basically all of them are good enough at characterisation that I wouldn't want people to avoid the setting or story they find more interesting, based on being worried that one has a weak setting or characters. When I would argue none od them do.
So I think of someone asks on discord this is about as good as you can do in a written response, because everything is a trade off. I prefer doing it this way, and focusing more stylistically for a video where I can use 40 minutes of time
I started with Tigana, continued with A song for Arbonne and then went with Under heaven and River of stars. Based on this and your previous video I bought the Sarantine Mosaic.
Fantasitic! I hope you enjoy Sarantine. You have read a bunch of my favorites, but still actually have all 3 of my favorite GGK books to go, in Lord of Emperors, A Brightness Long Ago, and The Lions of Al-Rassan
Wonderful video, Jake! I own the Tigana ebook and just saw The Lions of Al-Rassan on the shelf in my local library. I might now be swayed to start with the latter first. I get this wonderful feeling sweep over me when reading the opening lines of those two books. I'm really excited to get to this author at some point!
Glad you enjoyed the video!
As a bonus, if you start with Lions you get to be slightly cool for not starting with what everyone starts with. Both are fantastic books though
Let's goooooo!!!! This is the deep dive booktube content I am here for, and this couldn't possibly be a more relevant video as someone who owns most GGK books but hasn't started any. I'm def torn between overall pub order, his history book pub order, or just throwing caution to the wind and going for Lions or Under Heaven. At some point I just have to choose one and dive in soon. The paradox of choice!!
Hope it works for ya. You got plenty of good options!
Definitely go for 90’s GGK !
Hi Jake, I’ve just read my first GGK book, a brightness long ago. It’s a 5 star read for me, I’ve just bought 5 more of his books. It’s safe to say I’m a fan now. Really enjoyed this video to work out where I’m best to go to next.
Love seeing comments like this! Brightness is amazing, and i'm glad my video could help
Well done. I am a GGK fan going 15 years now - Sarantine Mosaic being I believe the closest to a near perfect story that has ever been written - and you got it all right as opposed to like you said a lot of misinformation out there about the several "worlds" Kay has created. I've read all the books (only could finish Fionavar out of allegiance to him) and I agree Arbonne gets looked over criminally both as starting points and as one of his best works.
Thanks a lot. Also Sarantine is a very very good choice, because wow those books are good.
You’re lucky! I’ve just gotten to this amazing author on a happenstance 😊 but have work cut out for me 🎉🐾🤩
Thanks for the list! I started with Lions in 2021 but got busy with other stuff and put it down near the end of chapter 8. I was enjoying it but needed to finish some library books before they were due back, etc. and never came back to it before All the Seas of the World was released.
When All the Seas of the World was published, I read that it was connected to Children and Brightness. So I read Children in 2022, Brightness last year, and am currently about 2/5 through Seas. (I don’t read a lot and DNF; only finished 19 books last year.)
When I finish Seas, my plan is to return to Lions and then hit Sarantine. I might slot Arbonne or Tigana in there. It seems like the best way to look at it might be to view the 5 (or 6) Mediterranean books as a loose series, probably best read in order: Lions, Sarantine, Children, Brightness, and Seas. And then slot in Tigana, Arbonne, Last Light, and Under Heaven whenever and in whichever order the mood hits you. And save Finovar and Ysabel for the end.
So far Brightness is the best. I will probably name a pet or something (daughter?) for Adria Ripoli at some point.
I know this is a long comment that probably deserves a longer reply, but Adria Ripoli is the best
Thanks Jake! I wanted to read GGK because of how much you love Hobb and this author (and I think you mentioned somewhere that you think Hobb fans will like his writing style), but didn't know you had a this video out. I have a Brightness Long Ago on my shelves so glad to hear that's a good place to start and your favorite standalone!
Glad you enjoyed the video, and I hope you enjoy the books!
This was a great video ! You've done a lot with your content to make me very enthusiastic for GGK ! And apparently I'm a hipster because Song for Arbonne was my first GGK 😅
Starting with A Song For Arbonne makes you cool
Very helpful. I just put a hold on at the library for Under Heaven.
LET'S GO
This is a very well thought out and articulated video! Based on the 9 Kay books I've read so far, I can't find fault with your reasonings.
Thanks! That means a lot, cause this video took more effort than usual to get right.
Thanks Jake, this was really good and I'm much less intimidated by taking something of his on.
Thanks! Glad it helped
Nice. I'll start with All The Sea's of the World followed by A Brightness Long Ago. 🙃
🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃🙃
I only recently discovered your channel, and I think the more I watch, the more I enjoy your content. My issue with a lot of other booktubers is that they all seem to have almost identical tastes in books: mainly skewing towards fast-paced, "modern" fantasy writing styles with relatively straightforward prose. As a result, most do not rank GGK's work very highly, which saddens me to see. I feel like your tastes, on the other hand, are a little broader and more unique, and you have some interesting things to say! You definitely seem like an old soul at heart. Looking forward to seeing more from your channel!
Thanks a lot! I generally think I am a fan of most styles of fantasy books, as long as they are executed well, and GGK definitely fits in the camp of being executed well. Him not getting a lot of love is indeed unfortunate.
Although at some point Phillip Chase, and Johanna(I recommend both channels)are going to read The Lions of Al-Rassan. And if they don't like it I will be shocked. I will patiently cultivate a GGK hype train.
My start with Guy Gavriel Kay was Tigana. Then I read A Song for Arbonne. Loved both books and am tempted to read The Saratine Mosaic.
Thank you for doing this preferred reading order of a new favorite author of mine.
Glad you enjoyed both. You have a lot of fantastic stories ahead of you!
This is a really great guide, thank you! I randomly started GGK with a song for arbonne, which I really liked. Then I picked up Tigana which I dnfd, because I didn’t care for how the the female plot lines all revolved around sex and for the number of inner monologues and retelling instead of showing the plot. Maybe one day I’ll try another book by him and then I’ll definitely remember your guide :)
I hope it works out. I think in general A Song For Arbonne is much more representative of the rest of his career than Tigana is.
Wow, great video, Jake! Sounds like Tigana remains the best start for any newcomers to GGK. 👁️👄👁️
grumble grumble
It's a fine place to start
Excellent effort here Jake. Can't say I disagree with what you have to say, it all seems to make sense for new readers. I don't have the 'where to start question' as I read them as they were published. It is always good to find a newly published author who feels like they have the potential for great things, which I think the Fionavar Tapestry books did show. It's easy now to look back and say well that's not his best work, but in the 80's the books certainly showed promise.
I actually do quite like Fionavar, but they are just so different. I think the stylistic difference is a bigger reason they are so low here
I've already started my GGK journey, but I watched this whole video because I know how passionate you are about GGK. The Last Light of the Sun sounds really cool to me, might be my next one.
Also nice thumbnail.
Thanks! It is flattering that you trust my opinion of Last Light lf the Sun more than the consensus
@@jakebishop7822 Whose opinion could I possibly trust more than someone who has rightly chosen to read Changes 11 times?
@@coleton7048 fantastic point
Ping, I wondered where to start and someone on Sarah's discord gave me this link. Thanks Jake!
Thanks people on Sarah's discord
Fantastic video man. Think I’m gonna do Under Heaven first as I’m reading a lot of Asian/Asian inspired fantasy at the moment, and I’m excited but I can’t wait to read Al-Rassan, I think on paper that could be an all time fav book for me.
So glad you enjoyed it! That sounds like a great plan
The only thing that upsets me about this video is that you got it up before my "where to start" video and that we basically agree 100% so I can't even bring some hot takes to mine 😅 Great video
Thanks you, and i'm sorry
I will ignore this and instead reread Tigana next.
We are now enemies
Thank you for the video. I want to start reading Guy Gavriel Kay and was looking for some guidance where to start. Your ranking seemed really helpful, but just after finishing it, I found out that only Guy Gavriel Kay’s books currently available in Poland are “Children of earth and sky”, “The Fionavar Tapestry” and that’s it xD All the other books are sold out and it doesn’t seem like any publishing house will soon get them on the shelves again. I think he’s really not that popular in Poland :/ So, “Children of earth and sky” it is
Lol, well, that is unfortunate, but still works
Indeed, not ideal, maybe look at Abe books as a possible source of thrift books
Hey Jake, Thanks for this video. I haven't read any GGK and have purchased several and want to start reading some GGK and was planning on this order...do you concur or would you recommend these in a different order? Tigana, A Song for Arbonne, The Lions of Al-Rassan, The Sarantine Mosaic. Thats my order so far, but Im waiting to get your input. Thanks for this video - it was very helpful.
Looks good to me. In my opinion the order you read those 4 books doesn't matter, and you should read whichever you think you will like the most
I would love to explore more of the world of Tigana. I don't need to explore the Palm more, just the other nations and cultures on said world.
ya the world is really rich, but unfortunately we are probably never getting more from it.
@@jakebishop7822 Que sera sera.
Jake, I need your input. I'm currently reading All the Seas of the World (I read CoE&S and then ABLA) but after this I'll only have 3 of the Non-Fionavar related books left:
A Song for Arbonne
River of Stars
The Last Light of the Sun
Which of these should I read next? I'm not worried about connections or whatever, I just want my first read of his standalones to end on a high. And because I'm excited for all 3 of them.
I think of those Arbonne is my favorite by a fair margin so you could save it for last.
Most people like River of Stars more than Last Light of the Sun, but I slightly prefer Last Light. I think all 3 are really good
Jake, I suggest putting the "Guy Gavriel Kay" keyword in the title to trigger the algos. :)
Good call
Uh oh. I am halfway through River of Stars as my first GGK book (and loving it). Do I continue or leave it and come back to it later?
Eh, it's probably fine if you are loving it anyway. I would recommend in the future rereading it after you have read Under Heaven .
The main reason I don't recommend starting with RoS is that I think it is slightly worse without Under Heaven, and for the people who are unsure if they want to continue, it makes more sense to start with something else.
However, it doesn't really spoil the personal narratives of Under Heaven the way All The Sea's of the World does with Brightness
@@jakebishop7822 Thanks!
Excellent guide. As I said earlier, I did read Under Heaven years ago-pretty sure it was release year, but I didn’t track books then and can’t be too sure. Loved it and then got buried in school work. The time is now to get back into GGK and this guide will be my northern star.
I do have a question for you though. How did you get GGK on your radar and did you read his oeuvre back to back? Take any breaks? Considering running through his works in the first half of 2023.
GGK got on my radar the way most people do. I heard people talk about his books, and say they liked them. So eventually I read Tigana and loved it. Then months later I read The Lions of Al-Rassan and loved it even more. Since then I have been reading 1 GGK book a month
Yeah fair enough. Mostly curious because I don’t see GGK talked about much and you seem to have taken a major liking to the work.
I’m thinking this will be one of the big names in my 2023 TBR-hopefully enough to finish his full collection. Thanks again for your content, Jake. It’s really appreciated and love how you give space for other folks to find their way with the (albeit subjective) facts. Feelsgoodman.
Hmm I feel conflicted. I want to read more Kay and the only book of his that I ever read was Under Heaven, maybe seven or eight years ago. And I was bored. It didn't do anything for me and I hardly remember anything from it. But I think that was also because the Asian setting was not interesting for me. Perhaps I should try A Song for Arbonne or The Lion of Al-Rassan, because their settings appeal to me more.
Definitely worth trying! I think Arbonne is probably the best paced GGK book, so you could give that a try
Man I tried Lions of Al-Rassan and struggled. Was bored, couldn't keep track of all the characters because they're names were ridiculously complicated. This was the first GGK book I read. Should I try any others? If they're all similar to lions I think I'll just move on. Tigana kinda has my interest tho
Hmm, interesting. GGK does like having a lot of characters. I guess A Brightness Long Ago is a little more focused on less people.
You could try that
:D
;)
It would be funny if this video was just Scot's "Publication Order. Always." GIF 😝
That would be funny
please just label these 1 to 15 and ill read them in the order you tell me. I trust your guidance in this matter.
1. Lions of Al-Rassan
2. Sarantine Mosaic
3. Tigana
4. Last Light of the Sun
5. A Song For Arbonne
6 Under Heaven
7. River of Stars
8. Children of Earth and Sky
9. A Brightness Long Ago
10. All The Sea's of the World
If he is one of your favorite authors
11. The Fionavar Tapestry
12. Ysabel
A lot of the ordering here is arbitrary, but there you go
@@jakebishop7822 thank you so much your the best im gonna start working on this!
Thanks again for the list I just finished number 4 on the list (last light of the sun). I think my favorite 2 books so far is number 2 saratine mosaic
One kronk = one like
This seems like good math, thanks.