Hi All, a couple of quick notes: - Yes, we did exclude a number of techniques, such as WDT & also other OCD-like devices. We had to limit it somehow, so we went with the methods we come across most frequently in the cafes & espresso bars we work with. - Josh informs me that he does indeed know how to pronounce the words “refractometer”, “anomaly” & “espresso” - despite the evidence in this video.
I did notice he knows how to say assume as well, because I have heard a few British say ashume! LOL In this video, though I didn't hear about consistent grind being a problem with the water finding more or less resistance in it's path through the grounds!!
Was it mentioned how many shots were pulled for each method ie what the data sample size looks like? Surely the numbers weren’t taken from a single shot of each method?
That all makes sense. The distribution tool, in my opinion, is useful for consistency and speed. While the "bump" is just fine for home, if you are making 200 a day, the OCD tool takes the thinking and time out of the equation. Thus the purpose. Love the channel. Thanks for doing it!
My observation is the same as others - the OCD tool might not give you the highest TDS - but that is not necessarily what I want. Some of what I am not getting is the bad oils of charred bean husks, and caffeine. I will take a little less of that please, and instead, compensate with a 5 second pre-infusion.
That's how I think of it too since the beginning of this whole 'distribution / tamping hype'. I reckon the frustration came when some people are affected by individual coffee influencers who enjoy their coffee at home but are using fancy tools. It makes them wonder if those are actually necessary and ended up disappointed after buying themselves because they can be fussy and unjustly expensive to begin with. Hence the feeling of being scammed.
Lots of Barista pros that take part in competitions actually use filter paper on top of the puck to ensure 100% even and consistent extraction. I tried this method at home and the results are astonishing. No channeling whatsoever and super consistent extractions👍
@@redotter4608 Simple, just take any arbitrary coffee filter paper and cut it to size to fit your basket inner diameter. Prepare your coffee as usual (grind, distribute, tamp) put the paper on top, mount your portafilter and start the extraction. 👍
Thanks so much for helping me not get down a rabbit hole of distribution methods and saving me a bunch of $$. 😅 My Wife would be happy about this. Blessings. ☕
Ive used a $19 Amazon (China) OCD knockoff for the last 3 years and I love it. I tried using just the leveler without tamping and it worked fine, but I eventually went to using both and I am quite pleased with my shots. My shots are more consistent and easier to dial in when changing coffee.
I conclude that the single most important component of consistently good shots is a premium grinder and I'll wager that the same experiment with a "pro-sumer" grinder will yield far more variable results.
100%. with my second hand ascaso grinder I get crazy channeling every single time if I don’t use my knockoff OCD tool. So perhaps all these techniques are tools for us commoners to compensate for cheap gears.
I exclusively use bottomless portafilters and target uniform extraction. Would have been nice to see bottomless extractions for each of these methods to see which prevented channeling most effectively.
I think this video is focused at baristas, as clearly stated in the description. However, for a lot of home baristas, grinding directly in basket, WDT and a level tamper such as ForceTamper, Normcore, Decent, Bravo tamper will do wonders
Before I dive in, I want to congratulate you on an outstanding video. Well done! The currently agreed upon optimal method by researchers whose opinions I concur with (Scott Rao, JimSeven, staff at Decent Espresso and Slayer, etc) seems to be a variation of WDT, > Vertical Tap > Level Tamp without concern for pressure ie The Force Tamper, Decent Tamp 2.0, etc. I measure TDS using a refractometer after spinning in a centrifuge, and can confirm through my own research that this is the method with the most consistent results and a high EY% when using the right ratio of grind particle size, dose, and pressure/flow (outside the scope of this conversation of course), Looking forward to your next video which discusses 9 bars of pressure. Pro tip - your not getting 9 bars of pressure at the group head while using a traditional thermal conductive boiler. Using a Decent DE1 I can verify that different coffees appear to be “optimal” using different pressure settings at the grouphead, extraction contact time, (usually with preinfusion), and flow. Generally speaking though, I find the best extractions are often around 7-8 bars of pressure at its peak. More importantly, once pressure goes below 4bars at the group head the puck has eroded too much - stop the extraction immediately. Pressure is often (but not always) a bell curve, which flow increasing as grouphead pressure decreases. I hope this insight is helpful!
Me too, nice to see others doing the same way. So much to learn and try. Sadly the testing they just did was with only one type of coffee that was all at the same age. I know they were looking at a base test, but one can dream.
Can you make a video about using a distribution leveler but NOT tamping? I've seen a handful of baristas using this non-tamp approach and I'd be curious to see you and your team do the science on it.
My current flow on my home setup (Baratza Vario and GC): Grind into bin, use dosing funnel to add grinds to filter, WDT with toothpick, remove funnel, palm tap, vertical tap, tamp. (feels more complex typing it out lol)
While using a distribution tool seems to not directly affect the quality of the shot, tamping your dose as *level* as possible is of high importance based on your other videos (avoid channeling). Hence, a distributor (e.g. OCD palm tool) which levels the ground coffee before tamping, should help achieving a "consistent level tamping", especially if you are not a a pro barista. IMO this topic is much more important for the inexperienced ones (like me), since it reduces the likelihood or errors, even if it does not physically improve your shots. Great video!
According to my own experience and reading the comments of others below, it would be nice to see a video on “no tamping”. (You would most likely have to change your grind, and still dial it in). I’d be interested in seeing the extraction numbers / taste opinions of a various number of techniques, but all without the use of a traditional tamper/technique. I used to tamp until I heard of this new technique. When I made the switch, I never went back. The results, for me, were better in the cup. But, I’d be overjoyed to see any data/tests to confirm this. Thanks for your channel!
Back in the 1990s there was a café in Chicago that did this: Café Le Jardin, iirc. With a big smile I told the owner that he’s breaking the rules yet getting better shots than everybody else. … It still doesn’t make sense to me, though.
@@MatthewJohnFaunce Yeah,…people have definite opinions on what is “right”,…or more commonly, what is “wrong”. I think proof is ultimately in the cup, of the beholder.
I think that the "settling" techniques create denser beds at the bottom of the basket. I have found that tamping tends to create a "topsoil" of compacted coffee with less dense layers sitting underneath. I'm not a coffee researcher, I've just pulled a lotta lotta shots.
When working for cafeteria I was taught: gind coffee to the basket, tap twice with your palm to distribute evently, slightly tamp, knock basket with the head of a tamp (usually wooden hand), tamp stronger and make a polish by forcing tamper into rotation with use of your fingers, but no extra force added. We had good espresso when done consistently. Also it added extra efects and a show up for customers ;)
*shaking and taping any variable sized aggregate always leads to: finer particles move to the bottom, bigger on top.* So you basically clog the cup pores with fine coffee dust. Lower particle count could be due to the same reason, compacted, fine dust will not permit particles to pass through. commenting as a physics lover, not a barista. (although i had designed a whole barista system that never came out of pre-production samples :P)
As an engineer with some years in the wastewater universe (read that as experienced in removing dissolved solids from highly turbid water)...I have thought of several very complicated methods of improving extraction through the puck. None are even remotely practical. At a practical level, the only tool I have added that I thought was at all useful was a basic 4-wire brush (WDT). I use a Breville barista express and the grinder is very good IMO, but it does still render clumps. In fact, I would argue it clumps more the fresher the beans are. Which makes sense as moisture is the source of the clumping. My work flow is now, set grind, add beans, grind, palm tap at angle (this generally reveals any clumps), use the brush minimally to try to break up the clumps, palm tap to level, tamp, clean edges, shot. Clumps are a problem because they will cause varying density in the puck and that will cause the water to flow around the denser portions. So the sections with 'more' coffee get less water...not what we want! I'll go find the pressure video. The Brevlle doesn't show pressure numbers...just 'espresso range'. My opinion is if you have to smash your portafilter to make it fit, you're just asking for channeling...back off the dose The higher pressure required to move water through the puck, the more likely the first spot water makes it through will get all the rest of the water.
I'd be interested in seeing a combination of tools. I typically use the whisk to break up clumps and remove large air pockets, followed but a few light taps to settle gaps, then a spin of the OCD tool before tamping, I've noticed significantly less channeling vs using only one method. This does add about 60s to my overall prep time so it isn't for everyone, but for at home baristas I thought it might help.
I totally agree, proper distribution has a great effect on overall shot quality and consistency. But another pretty positive effect of leveling tools is that they produce an even level of the grounds, since they touch on the basket rim. And this leads to a more even and well leveled compression when using the tamper.
I added a bottomless portafilter to my Gaggia Classic Pro home setup to increase the available space on the deck. It's highlighting the channelling issues that were hidden by the two-spout - a decent centre stream but a lot of edge blowout (requiring subsequent clean-up). I'm thinking that a pre-tamp distribution tool might be the way for me to achieve consistency while not getting coffee everywhere.
Thanks, great video, got me thinking.. I've always experienced uneven extraction as I used to always grind straight in the portafilter. I now found that when I grind in a dosing cup first I get a good even extraction and way better tasting coffee. Do have to say I'm just a home barista. I think my grinder produces quite a bit static, which I think creates voids. Giving it a shake in a dosing cup seems to help with that..
My personal way of doing it is this: - tapping around the pf until I get it (mostly) level, - tap on the counter to collapse, - use OCD (knockoff, but still) - tamp I've noticed much better results with this. Also, I do believe OCD people say it themselves, that there should be some form of redistribution prior to using their tool for leveling.
This one is just perfect! Everything sounds very clear, logical and well explained and even more importantly backed by well planned experiments. You're the best, keep on cultivating the espresso culture around the world! Subscription is a must.
I believe that the WDT has made more of an impact than any other tool...I no longer use an OCD because it only affects the top of the dry puck. I actually use the WDT for pour over and it proves it's worth by producing tastier coffee.
What I do: - WDT - horizontal tap to level - WDT again - Palm distribution (so I use my base of thumb at the centre of my palm and do circular motion). FYI, I am using Flair so it is doable 😂 - after the coffee is well distributed and level, I tamp hard with 4 fingers as the tamper is kinda small
Really good video! I use the OCD tool (with tamp on the other side), only because I'm new, and need to have as close to consistent as possible to reduce the changing variables. I'm still trying to lean how to dial in espresso, so making sure that the tamp is the same every time really helps me. But it's good to know that once i have everything dialed in, I can go to just a palm tap
Just got both espresso machine, then OCD tool. I like to tamp it afterward for good measure but still learning to improve the dose. Only had machine two weeks so far.
@@authorericar.stinson4849 Just a suggestion - try to keep things simple and consistent - learn to use the grinder to achieve the shot you are looking for. Let the shot come to you - it will get there in time. Keep the distribution, and the tamp the same. Vary the grind and use fresh local roast beans till you zero in on where you need to be.
I tend to do a sideways tap and then an OCD device before a light tamp. This gives consistent results for me. Being consistent allows me to control other factors such as pressure and extraction time without too many variables.
I just came across your site . This is a great place to learn. I’ve been using an OCD for a while, mostly to help me tamp level. I never thought the OCD would effect the extraction as it did in your tests, My work flow went from grinder, to WDT, the OCD then tamp. It was consistent. Watching your video, however, I have removed the OCD from my work flow, but kept the WDT. I’ve noticed a change in the flavour of my espresso for the better. It would seem that taste should always be the guide when changing/adding to one’s technique. Thanks a lot.
If you use the leveller (or OCD) you need to set it to get more depth in the basket rather than just spin just small layer at the top. This should get the grounds to fill up those empty pockets (like how you would tamp the side with you hands, and please never with the tamper) for most home barista this will get consistent result majority of time if you get an approriate grind setting.
No - two taps will settle the grinds - use the leveler and then a straightforward no frills tamp (no spins,no polishes, or backflips) pun intended is all I have found that I need.
True wisdom spoken. I sometimes don't know how did we manage for so long without levelers, distributors, spinners, WDTs, RDTs, and other "DTs" and coffee prep gizmos of today ;-) Don't even get me started on those little coffee bean glass vials...;)
I dont even tamp anymore. I use the "The Jack" leveler set as deep as possible, but not too deep as to leave an impression, spin it down and that's it. I found it to be more consistent than also Tamping after, not to mention quicker.
4:20 Fun fact, if you cut off the bottom of a bar graph, the apparent differences between outliers can be exceptionally magnified. Why do this if you are attempting to come off as objective?
Hey, your video is very informative. In my opinion a chance to further improve would be to include measures like standard deviation in your plots. Or even better use box plots. That way changes in consistency could be seen directly from the graphics.
Well spotted, I guess it's a hybrid in that sense. However the vertical collapse in the testing was a more heavy series of knocks on the bench, rather than simply settling the grinds on the forks.
My method is not as scientific, but I have clearly noticed a significant improvement in puck consistency, better extraction time and much better taste using a little wdt tool, then the Asso jack leveler and then tamping. The minute I started doing these steps, i was able to get amazing consistency.
Wow! I am surprised with the answer! I was like 100% sure that you will recommend it as a basic tool. I have a simple delonghi dedica at home, and was wondering would it help to get a maximum out of it by getting some additional tools? Since and numbers says different, thank you! I appreciate that! you just got a fan and a sub!
I'm loving this channel, another great video! Also means I don't need to shell out for a distributor tool, which means more space on my limited bench :)
I've been taught that with the tamp method you get "air pockets" in the basket and is not a recommended method in the barista world..so if your're right your'e making my day coz i use the ocd all the time and without it i can make my life easier
Everyone will have an opinion ... honestly for me the distribution tool makes it easier for me NOT to make a mess on my counter and my wife then gets ticked off if I miss wiping up any of the grounds ... I have improved my extraction method more from getting a good grinder and tailoring my grind size but the distribution also has eliminated the frequency of channeling 'maybe I just getting better after two months of playing with this but it magically became better once I started using a distributor ... everyone's mileage will vary as for me distributed coffee tool cost me $25 .. given I not spending money at starbucks and making my own these tools all pay for themselves with what I am NOT spending there and I get a much better coffee every time!
in Sweden we have a saying. (random sport) is a material sport, very rough translation. meaning that hockey for instance demands gear and equipment and then becomes very expensive. I've just begun my travels into the rabbit hole that is espresso but the saying keeps popping up in my head. been binge watching James Hoffman and the Tubes suggested your channel. small gentle steps for me. great content, thx
Don’t get bogged down in complexity. Did you like it? If yes, do that again. If no, do it differently. I marathon these channels but at the end of the day I remind myself we’ve been making coffee for thousands of years. It’s only as complicated as you make it. Ultimately I’d rather just make an espresso and enjoy it than waste my time dwelling on, but what if I had…
I like the distribution of Josh’s expanding beard. Does he use special tools to shape it? I recommend the Weiss technique for even beard hair distribution.
I must confess I use a popsicle stick to level off the top then tap the counter pad I have. Also I have seen what look like hair pin devices some ridiculously expensive to declump grinds in the basket. That's taking it a bit too far. Thanks, you guys are awesome! and cute!
Really interesting video. Can’t help feeling a higher-end grinder helped. I’d love to see the same experiments but using something I bit more “domestic” like a Niche. 👍
The best thing you can do Is find something your comfortable with and do it consistently. There is so much that will never be within our control just by the nature of the espresso itself.
Its good to see the wind sucked out of the sails of the fadish and fetish in coffee brewing. Never used a tool myself, at least not regularly, just to try. I side tap (sometimes with the stick of wood I used to knock out the puck) and finger brush before tamp.
Hi, I have a question regarding settling the handle to avoid the mess on the bench. Can I stop the grinder in the middle of grinding, settling the handle, and then continue grinding the rest amount of the coffee? Thank you.
thx for this, im no coffee elite, i just want a quick pick me up and my preferred method is shooting the espresso and going about my day.. just wanted to make sure i was getting the most caffeine from the pull
Regarding the Palm Tap method - it's unclear what defines a short version vs the long version. I guess 3 or 4 taps vs 7 or 8 taps? Also, were any conclusions made concerning which method resulted in the best tasting shot?
At the moment it's trying to get it as even as possible during grinding, than a vertical tap followed by Stockfleth. Will definitely try the horizontal long tap.
Interesting video, thanks for putting it up. I wonder if you have some sense of the scatter in the results, which could be presented with error bars on your experimental results. It seems to me that many of the results, TDS for example, were very close to one another, so it may be that there isn't a statistically significant difference in any/many of these experiments. Since the taste tests didn't give any conclusive results, perhaps there wasn't much difference between the different methods? This is my first visit to your channel, so I will look out for your other videos. Thanks again.
The plan is to publish more of this data in a blog post soon - it is hard to display lot's of info on screen...For now, the simple version is, we found little difference between the methods in terms of consistency from shot to shot.
I think including the number of repetitions of each method would’ve been useful to know (e.g. n = 4) at bottom of the graph. Also showing the error bars on each column would’ve been a great way of visually showing that the various methods were not statistically significant. Don’t dumb it down - most high school kids can understand this stuff.
Sounds all logic to me. Lower TDS with vertical collapsing, in this specific comparison, seem to enforce uniform extraction preventing partial overextraction (and therefore together with partial overextraction higher tds) - what do u think?
I feel like the hand bump always results in the grounds being more compacted in the basket at the area your hand is hitting the porta filter. It also can leave a lot of clumps.
I'm a home baris... no... "guy that makes coffee every morning" and use a very low quality machine. I grind directly into the portafilter, bump with my hand a few times, tap on the counter a few times, use the OCD, then tamp. After watching this, I'm probably going to be changing my method.
Perfect video, but I would include WDT, from my experience it improves extraction. Check out Lance Hedrick video on WDT, used the same 3D printed tool with acupuncture needles. Please update the video with WDT, I am really curious if it improves your extraction. Also interesting would be comarison palm tamper vs regular.
I usally make the mound of fresh grinds settle by doing a little jig with the group on the rubber mat, (side-to-side on each spout leg). It works extremely well but I often wonder if it causes the smaller grind particles to fall into the (VST) basket perforations and block flow.
Like how you didn't over engineer the process with extra tools like the WDT and went with what most baristas would actually do. You also see a lot of other channels recommending tools because they sell them on their website. But then some of these 'pros' don't even use these tools themselves in a comp.
I actually didn’t care about distribution until I got a bottomless portafilter which I got for space reasons so I can fit larger cups under my machine. But now the coffee sprays all over the place so I need to find a consistent solution for distribution.
TDS going from 10.3 to 10.15 (for the vertical collapse method) is such a small difference that it could easily be due to noise. I wonder if you guys did the calculations to determine the number of trials you’d need to do in order to make such a small result statistically significant? Not doubting you, just genuinely curious.
Thanks for the great video content. Question: when you tested each technique, did you tamp as part of the process? I’m assuming you did. Please advise.
Hi All, a couple of quick notes:
- Yes, we did exclude a number of techniques, such as WDT & also other OCD-like devices. We had to limit it somehow, so we went with the methods we come across most frequently in the cafes & espresso bars we work with.
- Josh informs me that he does indeed know how to pronounce the words “refractometer”, “anomaly” & “espresso” - despite the evidence in this video.
I don’t think their’d be any benefit with WDT considering your grinder. 👌 great video though. I think these methods are very dependent on the grinder.
@@crschavez wdt is always helpful
I did notice he knows how to say assume as well, because I have heard a few British say ashume! LOL In this video, though I didn't hear about consistent grind being a problem with the water finding more or less resistance in it's path through the grounds!!
Was it mentioned how many shots were pulled for each method ie what the data sample size looks like? Surely the numbers weren’t taken from a single shot of each method?
would you recommend wdt?
That all makes sense. The distribution tool, in my opinion, is useful for consistency and speed. While the "bump" is just fine for home, if you are making 200 a day, the OCD tool takes the thinking and time out of the equation. Thus the purpose. Love the channel. Thanks for doing it!
grounds! Of a chance of the palm method bumping grounds all over as well!
My observation is the same as others - the OCD tool might not give you the highest TDS - but that is not necessarily what I want. Some of what I am not getting is the bad oils of charred bean husks, and caffeine. I will take a little less of that please, and instead, compensate with a 5 second pre-infusion.
That's how I think of it too since the beginning of this whole 'distribution / tamping hype'. I reckon the frustration came when some people are affected by individual coffee influencers who enjoy their coffee at home but are using fancy tools. It makes them wonder if those are actually necessary and ended up disappointed after buying themselves because they can be fussy and unjustly expensive to begin with. Hence the feeling of being scammed.
Lots of Barista pros that take part in competitions actually use filter paper on top of the puck to ensure 100% even and consistent extraction. I tried this method at home and the results are astonishing. No channeling whatsoever and super consistent extractions👍
@Mikey Mike : I’m intrigued. Please elaborate 🙂
@@redotter4608 Simple, just take any arbitrary coffee filter paper and cut it to size to fit your basket inner diameter. Prepare your coffee as usual (grind, distribute, tamp) put the paper on top, mount your portafilter and start the extraction. 👍
@@mikeymike437 what a cool idea!! 😁 Definitely going to try this! Thanks! 😁
Basically a puck screen.
That makes sense, I'll try it.
I always use vertical collapse and then apply the OCD tool.
Thanks so much for helping me not get down a rabbit hole of distribution methods and saving me a bunch of $$. 😅 My Wife would be happy about this. Blessings. ☕
Nice video. This just confirms my home barista mantra even more: Doing the exact same thing every time is much more important than what you do!
Yes, exactly
That's true, but also difficult and probably one of the reasons tools like the OCD exist in the first place.
Ive used a $19 Amazon (China) OCD knockoff for the last 3 years and I love it. I tried using just the leveler without tamping and it worked fine, but I eventually went to using both and I am quite pleased with my shots. My shots are more consistent and easier to dial in when changing coffee.
I conclude that the single most important component of consistently good shots is a premium grinder and I'll wager that the same experiment with a "pro-sumer" grinder will yield far more variable results.
I agree 100%.
Doing test like this on a mythos is not the best idea.
Yes, it's quite possible you'll get different results with a domestic grinder
100%. with my second hand ascaso grinder I get crazy channeling every single time if I don’t use my knockoff OCD tool. So perhaps all these techniques are tools for us commoners to compensate for cheap gears.
@@SevenMilesCoffeeRoasters then, what was the point of the video? Your experiment is not germane to the part of your audience who are home baristas.
@@RichardDurishin at home my concern is consistent grind and amount and tamp!
I exclusively use bottomless portafilters and target uniform extraction. Would have been nice to see bottomless extractions for each of these methods to see which prevented channeling most effectively.
WDT it’s the cheapest and works the best
I think this video is focused at baristas, as clearly stated in the description. However, for a lot of home baristas, grinding directly in basket, WDT and a level tamper such as ForceTamper, Normcore, Decent, Bravo tamper will do wonders
Before I dive in, I want to congratulate you on an outstanding video. Well done!
The currently agreed upon optimal method by researchers whose opinions I concur with (Scott Rao, JimSeven, staff at Decent Espresso and Slayer, etc) seems to be a variation of WDT, > Vertical Tap > Level Tamp without concern for pressure ie The Force Tamper, Decent Tamp 2.0, etc. I measure TDS using a refractometer after spinning in a centrifuge, and can confirm through my own research that this is the method with the most consistent results and a high EY% when using the right ratio of grind particle size, dose, and pressure/flow (outside the scope of this conversation of course),
Looking forward to your next video which discusses 9 bars of pressure. Pro tip - your not getting 9 bars of pressure at the group head while using a traditional thermal conductive boiler. Using a Decent DE1 I can verify that different coffees appear to be “optimal” using different pressure settings at the grouphead, extraction contact time, (usually with preinfusion), and flow. Generally speaking though, I find the best extractions are often around 7-8 bars of pressure at its peak. More importantly, once pressure goes below 4bars at the group head the puck has eroded too much - stop the extraction immediately. Pressure is often (but not always) a bell curve, which flow increasing as grouphead pressure decreases.
I hope this insight is helpful!
Thanks for the detailed info and the tips on pressure - I'll pass these on to the engineer working on it 👌
Here is what I am doing :-
1. WDT tool
2. Vertical tap
3. OCD Distribution tool
4. Tamp
So far I am getting good consistency.
Same here
Same, with a knock off ocd. Consistently great shots.
Me too, nice to see others doing the same way. So much to learn and try. Sadly the testing they just did was with only one type of coffee that was all at the same age. I know they were looking at a base test, but one can dream.
I agree. I think this is the best method
Love the re-enactments of tamping and distribution
Can you make a video about using a distribution leveler but NOT tamping? I've seen a handful of baristas using this non-tamp approach and I'd be curious to see you and your team do the science on it.
My current flow on my home setup (Baratza Vario and GC): Grind into bin, use dosing funnel to add grinds to filter, WDT with toothpick, remove funnel, palm tap, vertical tap, tamp. (feels more complex typing it out lol)
While using a distribution tool seems to not directly affect the quality of the shot, tamping your dose as *level* as possible is of high importance based on your other videos (avoid channeling). Hence, a distributor (e.g. OCD palm tool) which levels the ground coffee before tamping, should help achieving a "consistent level tamping", especially if you are not a a pro barista. IMO this topic is much more important for the inexperienced ones (like me), since it reduces the likelihood or errors, even if it does not physically improve your shots. Great video!
Thank you for taking the time to do this. It helped !!!!!!!
According to my own experience and reading the comments of others below, it would be nice to see a video on “no tamping”. (You would most likely have to change your grind, and still dial it in). I’d be interested in seeing the extraction numbers / taste opinions of a various number of techniques, but all without the use of a traditional tamper/technique. I used to tamp until I heard of this new technique. When I made the switch, I never went back. The results, for me, were better in the cup. But, I’d be overjoyed to see any data/tests to confirm this.
Thanks for your channel!
Back in the 1990s there was a café in Chicago that did this: Café Le Jardin, iirc. With a big smile I told the owner that he’s breaking the rules yet getting better shots than everybody else. … It still doesn’t make sense to me, though.
@@MatthewJohnFaunce Yeah,…people have definite opinions on what is “right”,…or more commonly, what is “wrong”.
I think proof is ultimately in the cup, of the beholder.
I think that the "settling" techniques create denser beds at the bottom of the basket. I have found that tamping tends to create a "topsoil" of compacted coffee with less dense layers sitting underneath. I'm not a coffee researcher, I've just pulled a lotta lotta shots.
I'm thinking the same way
When working for cafeteria I was taught: gind coffee to the basket, tap twice with your palm to distribute evently, slightly tamp, knock basket with the head of a tamp (usually wooden hand), tamp stronger and make a polish by forcing tamper into rotation with use of your fingers, but no extra force added. We had good espresso when done consistently. Also it added extra efects and a show up for customers ;)
a lot of flash - all that just invites channeling - I tried the spin polish - 9 times out of 10 the shot channels. A no frills tamp works for me.
*shaking and taping any variable sized aggregate always leads to: finer particles move to the bottom, bigger on top.* So you basically clog the cup pores with fine coffee dust. Lower particle count could be due to the same reason, compacted, fine dust will not permit particles to pass through. commenting as a physics lover, not a barista. (although i had designed a whole barista system that never came out of pre-production samples :P)
Should i stop doing it then? 🤔
As an engineer with some years in the wastewater universe (read that as experienced in removing dissolved solids from highly turbid water)...I have thought of several very complicated methods of improving extraction through the puck. None are even remotely practical.
At a practical level, the only tool I have added that I thought was at all useful was a basic 4-wire brush (WDT).
I use a Breville barista express and the grinder is very good IMO, but it does still render clumps. In fact, I would argue it clumps more the fresher the beans are. Which makes sense as moisture is the source of the clumping.
My work flow is now, set grind, add beans, grind, palm tap at angle (this generally reveals any clumps), use the brush minimally to try to break up the clumps, palm tap to level, tamp, clean edges, shot.
Clumps are a problem because they will cause varying density in the puck and that will cause the water to flow around the denser portions. So the sections with 'more' coffee get less water...not what we want!
I'll go find the pressure video. The Brevlle doesn't show pressure numbers...just 'espresso range'.
My opinion is if you have to smash your portafilter to make it fit, you're just asking for channeling...back off the dose The higher pressure required to move water through the puck, the more likely the first spot water makes it through will get all the rest of the water.
I'd be interested in seeing a combination of tools.
I typically use the whisk to break up clumps and remove large air pockets, followed but a few light taps to settle gaps, then a spin of the OCD tool before tamping, I've noticed significantly less channeling vs using only one method. This does add about 60s to my overall prep time so it isn't for everyone, but for at home baristas I thought it might help.
I totally agree, proper distribution has a great effect on overall shot quality and consistency. But another pretty positive effect of leveling tools is that they produce an even level of the grounds, since they touch on the basket rim. And this leads to a more even and well leveled compression when using the tamper.
Clear, straight forward and good content/minute.
I added a bottomless portafilter to my Gaggia Classic Pro home setup to increase the available space on the deck. It's highlighting the channelling issues that were hidden by the two-spout - a decent centre stream but a lot of edge blowout (requiring subsequent clean-up). I'm thinking that a pre-tamp distribution tool might be the way for me to achieve consistency while not getting coffee everywhere.
Thanks, great video, got me thinking.. I've always experienced uneven extraction as I used to always grind straight in the portafilter. I now found that when I grind in a dosing cup first I get a good even extraction and way better tasting coffee. Do have to say I'm just a home barista. I think my grinder produces quite a bit static, which I think creates voids. Giving it a shake in a dosing cup seems to help with that..
My personal way of doing it is this:
- tapping around the pf until I get it (mostly) level,
- tap on the counter to collapse,
- use OCD (knockoff, but still)
- tamp
I've noticed much better results with this. Also, I do believe OCD people say it themselves, that there should be some form of redistribution prior to using their tool for leveling.
This one is just perfect! Everything sounds very clear, logical and well explained and even more importantly backed by well planned experiments. You're the best, keep on cultivating the espresso culture around the world! Subscription is a must.
I believe that the WDT has made more of an impact than any other tool...I no longer use an OCD because it only
affects the top of the dry puck. I actually use the WDT for pour over and it proves it's worth by producing tastier coffee.
What I do:
- WDT
- horizontal tap to level
- WDT again
- Palm distribution (so I use my base of thumb at the centre of my palm and do circular motion). FYI, I am using Flair so it is doable 😂
- after the coffee is well distributed and level, I tamp hard with 4 fingers as the tamper is kinda small
Really good video! I use the OCD tool (with tamp on the other side), only because I'm new, and need to have as close to consistent as possible to reduce the changing variables. I'm still trying to lean how to dial in espresso, so making sure that the tamp is the same every time really helps me. But it's good to know that once i have everything dialed in, I can go to just a palm tap
Check out their tamp video, it's great too
Just got both espresso machine, then OCD tool. I like to tamp it afterward for good measure but still learning to improve the dose. Only had machine two weeks so far.
@@authorericar.stinson4849 Just a suggestion - try to keep things simple and consistent - learn to use the grinder to achieve the shot you are looking for. Let the shot come to you - it will get there in time. Keep the distribution, and the tamp the same. Vary the grind and use fresh local roast beans till you zero in on where you need to be.
I tend to do a sideways tap and then an OCD device before a light tamp.
This gives consistent results for me.
Being consistent allows me to control other factors such as pressure and extraction time without too many variables.
I’M LEARNING A LOT FROM YOUR CHANNEL! THANKS A LOT!!
bruh why u yelling
I just came across your site . This is a great place to learn. I’ve been using an OCD for a while, mostly to help me tamp level. I never thought the OCD would effect the extraction as it did in your tests, My work flow went from grinder, to WDT, the OCD then tamp. It was consistent. Watching your video, however, I have removed the OCD from my work flow, but kept the WDT. I’ve noticed a change in the flavour of my espresso for the better. It would seem that taste should always be the guide when changing/adding to one’s technique. Thanks a lot.
it's all in your head.
@@justmehereUK you’re right
I LOVE seeing these "Nerdy or "Scientific" tests/methods as you take away any subjective analysis such as Taste from the Conclusions!
If you use the leveller (or OCD) you need to set it to get more depth in the basket rather than just spin just small layer at the top. This should get the grounds to fill up those empty pockets (like how you would tamp the side with you hands, and please never with the tamper) for most home barista this will get consistent result majority of time if you get an approriate grind setting.
No - two taps will settle the grinds - use the leveler and then a straightforward no frills tamp (no spins,no polishes, or backflips) pun intended is all I have found that I need.
True wisdom spoken. I sometimes don't know how did we manage for so long without levelers, distributors, spinners, WDTs, RDTs, and other "DTs" and coffee prep gizmos of today ;-)
Don't even get me started on those little coffee bean glass vials...;)
Your grinder must make a huge difference. No clumps and perfect even grind. 'Distribution' for most of us I think, is more about removing clumps.
I do it exactly like you stated at the end (cleaning the rim of the basket and lugs) but use a distribution tool instead of a tamp.
I dont even tamp anymore. I use the "The Jack" leveler set as deep as possible, but not too deep as to leave an impression, spin it down and that's it. I found it to be more consistent than also Tamping after, not to mention quicker.
Wanted one of those, but pretty expensive.
Are you having to grind finer than with normal tamping? Looking into one of these, as a few other people mention not even tamping.
@@futball24 No, I grind the same. In fact, i get on average longer extractions with this method because there little to no channeling.
@@PedroJohnston1 I’m pulling the trigger on one. I appreciate the info. 👍
@@futball24 hey no problem! It's a great tool!
4:20 Fun fact, if you cut off the bottom of a bar graph, the apparent differences between outliers can be exceptionally magnified. Why do this if you are attempting to come off as objective?
Great video! I love the testing regime you’re going through and how you present the results. Plenty to learn that’s for sure!
Hey, your video is very informative. In my opinion a chance to further improve would be to include measures like standard deviation in your plots. Or even better use box plots. That way changes in consistency could be seen directly from the graphics.
Thanks for the feedback!!
I'm addicted to this channel after 2 vids 👍🏻
Did I notice a vertical distribution in your recommendation example? Ha ha. Thanks for the effort guys!
Well spotted, I guess it's a hybrid in that sense. However the vertical collapse in the testing was a more heavy series of knocks on the bench, rather than simply settling the grinds on the forks.
My method is not as scientific, but I have clearly noticed a significant improvement in puck consistency, better extraction time and much better taste using a little wdt tool, then the Asso jack leveler and then tamping. The minute I started doing these steps, i was able to get amazing consistency.
Wow! I am surprised with the answer! I was like 100% sure that you will recommend it as a basic tool. I have a simple delonghi dedica at home, and was wondering would it help to get a maximum out of it by getting some additional tools? Since and numbers says different, thank you! I appreciate that! you just got a fan and a sub!
Best method I found is using a fork and then vertical and horizontal kick then tamp lightly. The fork does the magic, so much flavour comes out.
I've settled on WDT and a palm tamper. I haven't researched as thoroughly as you guys, though.
Super interesting results and very clarifying explanations! Thanks!
I'm loving this channel, another great video!
Also means I don't need to shell out for a distributor tool, which means more space on my limited bench :)
Really like ur approach of combine both solid solubility n fluid flow in each case. Don’t wanna hear so-called experience like that in other channels
I've been taught that with the tamp method you get "air pockets" in the basket and is not a recommended method in the barista world..so if your're right your'e making my day coz i use the ocd all the time and without it i can make my life easier
Everyone will have an opinion ... honestly for me the distribution tool makes it easier for me NOT to make a mess on my counter and my wife then gets ticked off if I miss wiping up any of the grounds ... I have improved my extraction method more from getting a good grinder and tailoring my grind size but the distribution also has eliminated the frequency of channeling 'maybe I just getting better after two months of playing with this but it magically became better once I started using a distributor ... everyone's mileage will vary as for me distributed coffee tool cost me $25 .. given I not spending money at starbucks and making my own these tools all pay for themselves with what I am NOT spending there and I get a much better coffee every time!
in Sweden we have a saying.
(random sport) is a material sport, very rough translation.
meaning that hockey for instance demands gear and equipment and then becomes very expensive.
I've just begun my travels into the rabbit hole that is espresso but the saying keeps popping up in my head.
been binge watching James Hoffman and the Tubes suggested your channel.
small gentle steps for me.
great content, thx
Don’t get bogged down in complexity.
Did you like it? If yes, do that again. If no, do it differently.
I marathon these channels but at the end of the day I remind myself we’ve been making coffee for thousands of years. It’s only as complicated as you make it.
Ultimately I’d rather just make an espresso and enjoy it than waste my time dwelling on, but what if I had…
I like the distribution of Josh’s expanding beard. Does he use special tools to shape it? I recommend the Weiss technique for even beard hair distribution.
Grind -> Palm Tap-> 2 OCD Spins CCW -> 2 OCD Spins CW ->Tamp...
I found this interesting and opened up my eyes to the nuances of technique
I must confess I use a popsicle stick to level off the top then tap the counter pad I have. Also I have seen what look like hair pin devices some ridiculously expensive to declump grinds in the basket. That's taking it a bit too far. Thanks, you guys are awesome! and cute!
Really interesting video.
Can’t help feeling a higher-end grinder helped.
I’d love to see the same experiments but using something I bit more “domestic” like a Niche. 👍
The best thing you can do Is find something your comfortable with and do it consistently. There is so much that will never be within our control just by the nature of the espresso itself.
Wonderful video friends. Well done!
You need a million followers .. really great videos!
Thank you!! :)
Great educational video for coffee nerds! Love it and keep up the good work! 👍🏼
Its good to see the wind sucked out of the sails of the fadish and fetish in coffee brewing. Never used a tool myself, at least not regularly, just to try. I side tap (sometimes with the stick of wood I used to knock out the puck) and finger brush before tamp.
Hi, I have a question regarding settling the handle to avoid the mess on the bench. Can I stop the grinder in the middle of grinding, settling the handle, and then continue grinding the rest amount of the coffee? Thank you.
thx for this, im no coffee elite, i just want a quick pick me up and my preferred method is shooting the espresso and going about my day.. just wanted to make sure i was getting the most caffeine from the pull
I use a little stockfleth method as well as a cheap DT. For me, I feel I get more consistent results with this than bumping and tamping.
Regarding the Palm Tap method - it's unclear what defines a short version vs the long version. I guess 3 or 4 taps vs 7 or 8 taps?
Also, were any conclusions made concerning which method resulted in the best tasting shot?
Love this!! Surely a video that includes puck rake is in order, no?
At the moment it's trying to get it as even as possible during grinding, than a vertical tap followed by Stockfleth. Will definitely try the horizontal long tap.
Interesting video, thanks for putting it up. I wonder if you have some sense of the scatter in the results, which could be presented with error bars on your experimental results. It seems to me that many of the results, TDS for example, were very close to one another, so it may be that there isn't a statistically significant difference in any/many of these experiments. Since the taste tests didn't give any conclusive results, perhaps there wasn't much difference between the different methods? This is my first visit to your channel, so I will look out for your other videos. Thanks again.
I would love to see also variance of these measures. What if OCD gives the most repeatable effect?
The plan is to publish more of this data in a blog post soon - it is hard to display lot's of info on screen...For now, the simple version is, we found little difference between the methods in terms of consistency from shot to shot.
@@SevenMilesCoffeeRoasters thats a shocker for me :) I was recommending OCD to many Friends as effective and fun technique :)
I make 2-5 coffees a day on my home machine, and having recently added an OCD type tool, I get repeatedly great results.
I think including the number of repetitions of each method would’ve been useful to know (e.g. n = 4) at bottom of the graph. Also showing the error bars on each column would’ve been a great way of visually showing that the various methods were not statistically significant. Don’t dumb it down - most high school kids can understand this stuff.
@@technovelodos agreed. Error bars n and statistical difference. This could be n = 1 all error for all we know
I wanted to find out is it that bad when after tampering some coffee is left on the side walls of basket? Thank you
Question： Do Dose cup looks like a good alternative？
Sounds all logic to me. Lower TDS with vertical collapsing, in this specific comparison, seem to enforce uniform extraction preventing partial overextraction (and therefore together with partial overextraction higher tds) - what do u think?
Nice to know! But what about cheaper (worst) espresso machines? can distribution help then? And with a cheap bad basket and shower? Can it help then ?
I feel like the hand bump always results in the grounds being more compacted in the basket at the area your hand is hitting the porta filter. It also can leave a lot of clumps.
I'm a home baris... no... "guy that makes coffee every morning" and use a very low quality machine. I grind directly into the portafilter, bump with my hand a few times, tap on the counter a few times, use the OCD, then tamp. After watching this, I'm probably going to be changing my method.
The grinder is everything! much better investing in a decent set of burrs in your grinder than a distribution tool.
Statistically significant? Are these slight difference just attributed to error?
at home WDT is the only distribution tool to use as is bottomless portafilter. Double Spouts are for the coffee bars.
Fantastic video and answered all my questions. Thank you!!
ive found that a ocd style tool makes it look pretty but it has hampered my shots and im better with out
In my opinion, the ocd tool only moves the top layer doesn't reach down into the basket. That's why I use a WDT tool before using an OCD.
So do I need to buy a Distribution Tool?
Perfect video, but I would include WDT, from my experience it improves extraction. Check out Lance Hedrick video on WDT, used the same 3D printed tool with acupuncture needles. Please update the video with WDT, I am really curious if it improves your extraction. Also interesting would be comarison palm tamper vs regular.
Hi, could you post a link to your 58mm tamper. It has de width and height I was looking for. Thank you
Did you run each test multiple times to get the averages?
Yep!! We had strict controls in place to run multiple shots to then verify averages over time to get decimal'd numbers.
@@SevenMilesCoffeeRoasters What kind of standard deviations are you seeing? It would be nice to see error bars before drawing conclusions!
@@SevenMilesCoffeeRoasters what was n for each group. Error bars for distribution. (Statistical distribution)
I this is the first time ive ever seen or heard of these tools, very interesting
Interested in pressure test. Should pressure be same throughout shot or should it back off toward end? Does 9 bar at end of shot cause channeling?
This is interesting
But as long as the coffee is good I can start my day 😁🤙
I usally make the mound of fresh grinds settle by doing a little jig with the group on the rubber mat, (side-to-side on each spout leg). It works extremely well but I often wonder if it causes the smaller grind particles to fall into the (VST) basket perforations and block flow.
Like how you didn't over engineer the process with extra tools like the WDT and went with what most baristas would actually do.
You also see a lot of other channels recommending tools because they sell them on their website. But then some of these 'pros' don't even use these tools themselves in a comp.
I actually didn’t care about distribution until I got a bottomless portafilter which I got for space reasons so I can fit larger cups under my machine. But now the coffee sprays all over the place so I need to find a consistent solution for distribution.
TDS going from 10.3 to 10.15 (for the vertical collapse method) is such a small difference that it could easily be due to noise. I wonder if you guys did the calculations to determine the number of trials you’d need to do in order to make such a small result statistically significant? Not doubting you, just genuinely curious.
Thanks for the great video content. Question: when you tested each technique, did you tamp as part of the process? I’m assuming you did. Please advise.
Loving your videos guys - just a question, have you used a Niche Zero yet? If so, do you have any thoughts on it?
We have used it, haven't written a review on it per se, but IMHO I love the grinder myself :)
How many shots tot you pull for each method? The values are fairly similar, could be coincidence....