Damn this game is INSANE for 1993. Huge props to the team who put this together. A lot of work must have gone into figuring out how to make this game run efficiently.
You could tell in the arcades that these SEGA games were just a world apart from anything else. But they also used to be 2-3x the price of the other games
@@MrMajani The game managed to pull in a lot of money in the arcades, especially the multiplayer capable set-ups. It was a clear indication of the future of home gaming. The game definitely got my money! 😁
Moore's Law says that computer power and memory double every 18 months. Yet 3D power doubled every 6. There was no excuse for the Saturn to be an expensive, convoluted mess. Considering the success of their System 16 (the Megadrive/Genesis), there was no reason why they couldn't keep the 32X CD in market until the Model 1 was downsized to bring the arcade experience home in 1996. There were even accelerator cards completed for the Saturn that were nearly as powerful as the Dreamcast, yet SEGA shelved them!
F-Zero X on the N64 also aimed to run at 60 FPS despite the surplus of vehicles used in the game, and they succeeded very well, despite the fact polygons indeed had to be cut.
Just the IC board itself without any additional components was $15,000 in 1993. Adjusted for inflation it is $27,000 today. It was basically a mini supercomputer inside an arcade cabinet. Now we are 25 years later and modern hardware even in smartphones is many times more powerful than the logic board of the original Daytona USA. But the thing is, Dayota USA still had low poly models, low res textures and virtually no post processing or modern lighting and shading implementation, which are the most calculation intensive. If ported correctly Daytona USA will run on a potato computer such as your basic Raspberry Pi full speed and with upscaled resolution with no sweat and plenty of additional CPU and GPU computation time to spare. It is the priority of graphical fidelity in modern games over framerate that hogs the system if too many cars are on screen or too much smoke comes from the tyres. It is just the philosophy of game development and marketing strategies that prevail. Gamers are drawn by pretty graphics, not by smooth gameplay if we look at statistics.
Holy crap. This was an amazing episode. I always appreciated the perceived smoothness of arcade games, but never realized just how serious that was. Gotta grab the PS3 copy.
One thing left unsaid that I think merits mentioning is that even the arcade version of Daytona USA has pop-in. The developers at AM2 prioritized their near-flawless frame-rate over draw distance, in effect trading graphical density for temporal resolution. It's something I wish developers these days would do - no matter how pretty each frame is, nothing feels as good as 60 fps (or higher!).
On this particular, I'm afraid I must disagree. Regarding racing games, pop-in is just as big a flaw as a low framerate, gameplay-wise. Sure, die-hard players end up memorizing every curve, nook and crane of every track eventually, but that takes actual playing/driving ability out of the equation for the most part.
@@oscarjimenezgarrido7591 Have you played this game? It doesn't actually effect the racing at all from what I've played. It's pretty much only background objects and scenery. Which I think is a good trade off like"bVork" mentioned.
@@xXMalakianXVII Believe me, I clocked more hours both on the arcade and the Saturn port than I care to admit. I'm not objecting on how great the game is and how good it feels to play it, I'm objecting on the notion of pop-in not being that big of an issue as framerates in racing games, on which I disagree. With a good, well designed racer without pop-in issues, a player already experienced on the genre might be able to win a race on their very first try at a course that they were new at, if controls are tight and physics are consistent, because they might be able to react in time to incoming turns, hazards and such. With a game plagued by pop-in, that's nearly impossible - learning and memorizing the course becomes mandatory not by design, but by need, all because of the game's technical limitations.
@@oscarjimenezgarrido7591 that track itself doesn't pop in, only the background mountains trees etc. 60fps is much much more important than a few background models.
Because the PS4 and Xbone were based on weak hardware upon release. 8 dirt slow AMD Jaguar cores and a GPU similar to the Radeon HD 7770. The Dreamcast was as powerful as a midrange gaming PC for the time but with a stronger than typical GPU and of course, kinda short on memory... A console staple at that time given RAM prices.
And now we are back to having games barely hitting 60fps due to the high fidelity being displayed on the PS5 and Xbox Series X causing demanding performance (look at the upcoming Starfield for example).
@@honkhonkler7732majority of 60fps games on dreamcast looked like ps1, n64 games remastered nothing impressive same for the ps2 60fps games looked like dreamcast games games that had modern graphics at the time were always 30fps
Agreed. Loved it. The control was spot on. If it wasnt it would have killed it but I didn’t notice frame rate or draw in. I was happy as a clam playing Daytona at home. Loved it. And to this day my 2nd favorite over the downloadable 2011 version. Still own my saturn.
Yep. Saturn and Dreamcast are my favourite consoles. Being able to play 3D Sega arcade titles at home was truly a magical feat back then. Sure, compromises were made to port the arcade code to these consoles with less powerful hardware, but the feeling of playing such hot arcade games with insane graphics at home was magical nevertheless
Because of what they are today, not many kids know of how great and innovative Sega was and falsely attribute Nintendo for being the sole "pioneers" of video games. But Sega were one of the giants along with Midway and Atari. Many industry standards were started by Sega as well as pushing what games were capable of gameplay-wise in reflecting body onto screen. Sega took a lot inspiration from reality for their games. Their zenith was without a doubt the Dreamcast as it truly proved unlike any other system what games creatively and artistically were able to achieve through gameplay from Virtua Fighter to Rez to Seaman to Cosmic Smash to Shenmue to Space Channel 5 to F355 Challenge. Thank you DF for teaching these guys some well-needed history.
Are there really people who call Nintendo pioneers of gaming? People attribute Nintendo for reviving the gaming market after the crash in the 1980ies, and that part is correct. And Nintendo did pioneer certain things, like a 360° thumbstick on a controller.
Console gaming if anything. I've never heard a blanket statement of all gaming before, unless the person unconsciously excludes arcade and PC, which a lot do. And yeah Nintendo did introduce some neat stuff into gaming, but so did Sega and Sony as well.
Nintendo 64, along with the N64 controller, was released in June 1996. Sega released the 3D Control Pad one month later in July 1996 Sony released the Dual Analog Controller, 10 months after the N64, in April 1997.
Shade Millith N64 was showed off much earlier than that though, in Shoshinkai in 95 iirc, and even before that there were leaks in various game mags and such.
Daytona USA was and still is the highest grossing arcade game ever made. Their was a popular saying in the industry whenever a new game came out "It's no Daytona."
Carl Zimmerman I think Pacman may have been higher possibly. But yeah Daytona USA would be up there for sure. I played this game from 1995 up until 2007 in the arcades. They were also a lot of other pro players I battled with on the eight way machines. It was really fun. I also bought the PSN version and yes, it was a long dream came true. Now I've moved on though. I mostly play Initial D Arcade Stage at the arcades (currently at 8, though a new version is being released in March). Sega gets a lot of flak on the mainstream but their Initial D Arcade Stage series is some of the best racing games ever made (except for 4, that was a terrible game) despite the physics revamps every version. While a very different type of racing game than Daytona USA, in my opinion it continues the strong tradition of great racing game development from Sega that has continued for years with titles like Daytona USA.
As an old gamer i experienced Daytona USA in the arcades in 1993. It was jaw dropping to experience it in the arcades. The graphics, the music, the gameplay, the cabinet. Euphoric.
60 fps on a $15.000 arcade machine from 1993. As for comparisons with hardware of the era, the video says it all, 20 fps with much worse graphics. It's like comparing CGI graphics in Hollywood movies with PS4.
Marius Merchiers , might be "enough", but no comfortable, when you see that ps4 pro goes for 4k 30fps, i haave neverseen such absurdity. 1080p 60fps is coherent,4k 30fps is stupid
Kind of pathetic how the standard has been dropped to 30fps over time. And most of the time, it goes even lower than that. Went back to play Gamecube and Dreamcast this week, and you could IMMEDIATELY feel the difference between 60fps and 30fps.
Dreamcast was a 60fps powerhouse. Granted that a lot of those games were arcade ports. And, there was definitely a fair share of muddy low-res, low fps games. But, the things done with the hardware at the time were phenomenal.
Graphics dominated Framerate sadly overtime Blandrew. I think it started around the rise of demanding graphical games around the time PS3 and Xbox 360 came out.
+TheCRAZYGUYISHERE Many, many, many PS1 and PS2 games ran at 30 fps (or lower) in favor of having better graphics. It did not "start" with the 360/ps3 generation, though it may have gotten worse in that gen...
I remember observing that roughly two thirds of GC/PS2/Xbox games were 60fps, and that dropped to about one third of X360/PS3 games. It might have been that "next-gen" games needed a way to differentiate themselves from the last generation. Producing vastly better graphics than the previous gen, at 3x the total resolution, was a tall order at the time*, so developers cut some corners. (*Obviously, those consoles were a considerable step up, and that became especially evident with games like Crysis 3 later on, but some of the titles from 2005-2008 were a bit rough...)
I wish arcades wouldn't have died out in the U.S. Tired of hearing this "PC Master race" crap when for good amount of my life it was the arcade games that showed the best tech by far. Even home consoles during the late 90's-mid 2000's beat PC for a time. (at their launches) The reason it is so bad now is basically because of the Nintendo Wii. They won that gen with a cheap console and the other companies took note. It made me sick to see MS not go for power, as their first two consoles were the most powerful. The PS4 was nothing to write home about either.
I grew up in the 90s so I sort of missed out on the arcades. Our movie theater had a few machines but the roulette thing dealed out more tickets so I'd play that for prizes. Other than that I really only saw Street Fighter and 1942 almost everywhere. Graphics are pretty much as good as they need to be, I wonder if at some point developers will see no need to go any deeper and can go back to making good games
@@DigitalHaze65536 the Xbox OG was the ONLY superior Xbox of the console gen (6th). The Xbox 360 was inferior to the ps3 in hardware (7th gen). And as for the xbox one it was also inferior to the ps4 (8th gen). Plus the Wii was popular not because it was a "cheap" console but rather with clever marketing, targeting ALL audiences, and having a lineup of games for all ages. Plus its motion control was such an impact that even PlayStation and Xbox made their own during the "motion control craze" which was the PSmove & Kinect.
@@Abel-Alvarez Most 3rd party titles had better showings on the Xbox 360 vs. the PS3, plus it came out 1 year earlier, so I'd say that is pretty superior. On paper and in a select FEW games the PS3 was superior, but real world trumps theory.
@@DigitalHaze65536 yeah that was because the xbox 360 was earier to develop games for AT FIRST. But once the developers understood the technology the PS3 was capable of it overshadowed the 360 throughout it's life span.
After 25 years, Daytona USA 2 had finally made it home. Kind of. More accurately, you can play Sega Racing Classic 2 in Like A Dragon Gaiden which came out today.
Not long after that, arcades started using off-the-shelf pc hardware, such as the RingEdge and RingWide. Though to be fair, with a 8800 GS and an Intel Pentium Dual Core (a cut back Core 2 Duo), RingEdge produces far better results than the PS3 and 360. Some shooter games on the PS3/360 ran at 60 fps (something CoD actually did right), though the sacrifices were pretty severe to make it happen.
Still got this on the Saturn, Dreamcast and 360. I fell in love when playing it in the arcades back when it was released. Sega was at the top of it's Arcade game back then!
Daytona 2 used the Model 3 arcade board, which notoriously was hard to port to Dreamcast. Aside from Virtua Fighter 3, there weren't any major ports. Early on they tried porting Scud Race / Super GT, which Daytona 2 was based on, but couldn't. You can watch the test bringup videos of Scud Race on Dreamcast, it would have been horrible. Model 3 was even more powerful than Model 2 in its time. It outperforms Xbox and PS2. It aligns much more with Xbox 360 and PS3. Know it's six years since you asked, but that's the reason. Sega paired Dreamcast with NAOMI much earlier on, than Saturn was paired with ST-V, and that made porting NAOMI games a trivial affair to Dreamcast... leading to a host of ports from day one, like House of The Dead 2 and Confidential Mission.
@@ChristopherPrice Model 3 is more powerful than PS2 and Xbox? Based on what, polygon count? Resolution? Hell, compare a game like Star Wars Trilogy Arcade against Star Wars Rogue Leader on GameCube. Rogue Leader definitely looks better to me. And the closest analogue I can think of when comparing games like Daytona 2 and Scud Race would probably be against something like Outrun 2. I'd say Outrun 2 is pretty comparable to those at least. Hell, could the Model 3 make a game like Burnout 3 or Burnout Revenge look better if it released in arcades?
A useful tip for any fans of this game who want to play it using M2Emulator: By default, depending on your romset, Daytona USA might run with somewhat washed out colours like the footage in this video, however if you change the cabinet type to a different model, for example changing Upright to Deluxe, might fix them. I can’t remember what I had to set mine too but I got it working eventually. I assume certain cabinet types must’ve just used different displays which needed different colour settings. After doing this, the colours will be a much closer match for every other version of Daytona, being closest to the 360 & PS3 rerelease, where it’s pretty much a perfect match. It also makes the Saturn ports (especially the first one) look less strange in comparison.
This game was like ten years ahead of its time and still hold up today as a great arcade game. I miss when sega was on top of their game they just pushed boundaries when ever they could.
60fps > 99x MSAA, realistic shadows for each strand of hair, physics on every grain of sand, please may devs and publishers understand that some beautiful day
Daytona USA is my favorite arcade racing game of all time! It was my very first Saturn game and i still play it from time to time. Yu Suzuki was like a God for me. I f***** LOVE Virtua Fighter, OutRun, Shenmue and Virtua Cop! BTW Thanks for using music of one of the rarest SEGA Saturn games (Blast Wind) BIG thumbs up guys!!
Yu Suzuki and Toshihiro Nagoshi are the two men that defined my childhood when it came to video games. Yu Suzuki created Virtua Fighter and helped produce Daytona USA, while Nagoshi was given the chance to direct Daytona from Suzuki. Funny thing is, I didn't know Nagoshi was the creator of the Yakuza series till a couple years back, so the man is responsible for two of my favorite series of all time.
Personally, I felt that Ridge Racer was more state of the art at the arcades. Pumped up soundtrack and feels that just totally had the 90's vibe all over it. It was the cooler game, in my mind.
A truly amazing game. The only game to come close to this level of brilliance was Sega Rally which I feel had and still has the best handling of any game.
God, I love these videos. I get nostalgic feels while I learn about the intricacies of game development. Such a well made video series, thank you DF. You guys are fantastic.
If framerate matters to you, the PC is the literally only suitable platform. It's quite sad that there isn't a single console available for gamers with higher standards. But then again a $800 console powerful enough for 60 FPS gameplay would probably flop, because the intersection of gamers who want 60 FPS and don't already play on PC is probably too small.
Not all games run at 60 fps lol. That's a flat out lie. You'd had to have something that is significantly more expensive than a home console. Best recent example is Forza Horizon 3.
An $800 console would most certainly flop and not sale nowhere near as good as they have been. Then again, for that price, you bet it would run all games at 1080p60fps.
I remember seeing this game and other 60fps titles as a child and not understanding why it looked so much better. It just did. I wasn't even able to realize it was smoother. it was just better.
This is why I have the Daytona USA upright cabinet in my garage. You can't beat the real thing! ;) Loved this video, it's nice to see the first Saturn Daytona get some recognition for playing really well even though the framerate was dodgy. I would also say that the first Saturn Daytona deserves some plaudits for being able to display 38 cars simultaneously, I think this is one of the reasons the engine struggles so much in other areas. I really don't like the second Daytona, while it runs better it just misses everything else that made Daytona fun. I still replay Dreamcast Daytona all the time, I've heard it plays identically to the arcade game if you play it on a steering wheel. I've found it's possible to tweak the joypad controls to the point where it plays quite similarly to the arcade but the game does still play a bit differently (enemy cars aren't welded to the track like they are in the arcade version). Can we have a similar video looking at the Ridge Racer series? I'd love a deep dive on the Super System 22 hardware (I also have a Time Crisis 1 cabinet in the garage...) ;)
It’s now 2024. Daytona 2 has finally achieved a home console port, renamed as Sega Classic Racing 2, as an arcade minigame inside a Yakuza spinoff. Finally!
Uk didn’t see this game until 94. In the summer of that year me and the family went to the north of England and while visiting an arcade I saw Daytona for the first time (was already blown away by Virtual Racing), I had to go and find my dad to get him to ‘come and see this game’ he wasn’t as impressed as me lol. Fast forward to 2000 when I was living in Sydney Australia and they had an 8 player setup which was always super busy on the weekend. I spent alot of money on that game and has some fierce battles with people on there once I mastered the drifting technique. Great times when I didn’t need alcohol to feel good, and just goes to show how amazing the game was even after 7 years. I’ve found Daytona cabinets scattered around various arcades at beach resorts but you can almost always guarantee gear selector/screen/steering wheel feedback issues due to neglect 😢
ROOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLIIINNNNNGGG STTTTAAAARRRRRRTTTTTT! I got this and a Sega Saturn on Christmas morning and played it until I feel asleep sitting up, pad in hand.
Yes, any developer guilty of making a sub-60fps game should be shot upon release. Publishers will be tried in a court of law to determine guilt, then shot. Any consumers who knowingly purchased such games -- yep, shot. All of the above will have three generations of their family imprisoned in a Electronic Arts labor camp.
Great article, thanks. Actually the Dreamcast version, while being really twitchy using the controller, played like a dream on the Dreamcast Wheel controller. I suspect this is what the developers were aiming at, and just bolted on controller support. If you own a Dreamcast and have their original wheel controller, it plays beautifully. Almost like the arcade.
Excellent video DF, one of my favourite games. As a point of note, Ridge Racer came out in the arcades first and that for me was my first experience of 60fps polygon visuals. However Daytona was on a far larger scale and with that tremendous multiplayer. Also it should be noted that Sega used Daytone USA arcade development videos that looked even better than the final game when previewing the Saturn at CES Las Vegas early 94., that misled a lot of us as the to performance of the final hardware. Also I played a preview copy of Japanese version pre-release in March 95', the global first showing bhcd of the title and can tell you it ran far worse than the title released the following month. But with so much progress made in that 4 weeks, one can't help but wonder how much it would have helped the Saturn to have delayed that title. 14 months later we had Sega Rally, VF2 and Virtua Cop, it was like a different system but by then the war was over and Sony were dominant.
DF, I hardly comment on videos but I would like you to know that this is why I enjoy your channel so immensely. These DF retro: videos are by far your best series and so interesting!
The video showed that the color are wrong for moderns screens, you need change (F2) the "Test settings", the Cabinet mode, from Twin (color for CRT monitor) to Deluxe mode, for full color patterns in Projectors, LCD... Really all games at SEGA Model 2 hardware run at 57,524160fps not 60,0fps
With the game being delisted from the Xbox 360 Marketplace soon I was torn over which titles to add to my collection. Watching this bumped it to the top of my list. Thanks for all of your work John and everyone at DF!
I still think Daytona USA looks great today. It looks very dynamic with the shaking car body and tires which pops in and out. Oh, and blistering fast speed.
@Kylealien Complaining about adjusting settings? Do you also complain about having to adjust hot and cold water when you shower? Do you complain when you adjust your volume? Seriously you act like its some sort of enormous task.
***** So because some people choose to spend hours adjusting settings that means its impossible to play a game on pc immediately after turning it on? Newsflash nothing is stopping you from playing the game at the default settings.
Despite its low frame rate I still had more fun with the original Saturn release than I did both CCE and the Dreamcast remake, though I did play loads of the latter once I got used to the new steering. So glad Sega finally gave us a arcade perfect port and it's one of the main reasons I simply cannot let go of my PS3 haha. Steam releases of both that and the amazing sequel would be perfect, though one of my local arcades thankfully still has a Daytona 2 machine. Brilliant episode, back when Sega were arcade gods. I hope you can do a Virtua Fighter episode one day going through the history of the series including it's surprisingly great VF2 port on Saturn and just what a revolution VF3 was in the arcades.
I think a an arcade perfect Nintendo Switch release of Daytona USA would be awesome. If the PS3 And XBox 360 can handle it, the Nintendo Switch surely can, maybe even with four-player modes!
3 things must be said. 1) This was a great retrospective to what Daytona meant in the quality path for gaming 2) correct me if i'm wrong, but i'd swear that Daytona 3 existed and i felt weird when it wasn't mentioned 3) how can you play the arcade version nowadays? I can't find any emulator or even an arcade machine where i live
Daytona on the Saturn was an amazing game. Yes it was downgraded when it came out. However the devs had something like 5 months to put it together to meet launch on new hardware they were not familiar with. However the gameplay was identical to the arcade and that was what matter. Besides when it came out I had never played the arcade game and it was the most impressive 3D I had seen at home.
Really enjoyed that. On the topic of 1998 PC comparisons at 13:10 I'd suggest Sega Rally 2 or Grand Prix legends as a simulation and arcade example, both much more detailed and giving that arcade a good run for its money.
I have no idea why people complain about controls in Daytona USA 2001. Once you lower sensitivity to the lowest, it controls amazing with analog stick and triggers.
Framerate has always mattered. Even on the NES where almost all games were 60fps, when some game was 30fps it looked like crap. There was an era when it seemed like 60fps almost became a standard (PS2 and Gamecube), but after that it was forgotten for a long time. It pissed me off. After PS3 and PS4 era, it seems like 60fps finally seems to be targeted more.
Great video DF! It reminds me of one of the great mysteries of retro gaming / computing. Most tech fans of a certain age can name the first 64 bit console and CPU but nobody knows what the first arcade game to have a 64 bit CPU is. It might be Virtua Fighter 3 but nobody seems to know.
AWESOME! Well done! I am so glad I was able to get Daytona for my Xbox 360. At first I was disappointed it was not the Dreamcast version but my nostalgia for that game made me forget how badly it played. Again, well done!
Can you imagine what a $15,000 (or rather 25,000 when adjusted for inflation) arcade cabinet could do today? 16K 60fps Why do the arcades have to be extinct in America?
I'm pretty sure the graphics cards people have at home is the most high fidelity experience available today. And devs would have to make games specific to an arcade platform, which isn't profitable.
They are extinct all over the world because the developers got lazy. This is THE BEST arcade game because of what it represents. Hard work, space age development and a dream. now arcade manufacturers slap a cheap pc with a HD screen together, tape a ticket machine to the side and call it a day. I remember a time when home was not as good as the arcade and graphics like that at home were a dream. They should have gone forward with VR in the 90s and made it arcade exclusive.
The arcades used to be able to offer experiences that you simply couldn't replicate at home. Now, home consoles are so crazy good that there's really nothing an arcade machine could give you that a console couldn't. I love the arcades and frequently visit ones in my home country, but this is the sad truth.
The reason why they cost so much was because arcade cabinets were low-volume kits. Modern graphics cards would cost $15,000 each if they were made by the thousands, rather than millions. Taking volume into consideration, it's easy to see why even 2D games and pinball machines cost upwards of $5,000 back then. What I want to know is why you can't find more racing arcade games in malls and stuff. Racing games benefit tremendously from a seat, steering wheel, and pedals -- an experience that's hard to replicate at home, if not for cost reasons, but also space and setup time.
I'll never forget when my local hangout got a 4 player Daytona machine in, i was blown away and then some, i also loved the Saturn version when and prefer it to the CE version but the CE version does have the added tracks so is always worth a play! DigitalFoundry is 2nd to none for this type of content! Love it!
Great video. I bought the Saturn -- and Daytona USA -- on day one in the US (when it launched unexpectedly). Comparing it to our beloved arcade machine was a great lesson in 3D graphics -- the importance of resolution, bilinear texture filtering, perspective correct mapping, polygon count, texture resolution, on-screen bit depth, and YEP, frame rate. Beyond that, the Saturn was displayed on our interlaced TV using an RCA video cable (composite I think it's been called), while the arcade Daytona used a beautiful progressive scan RGB screen with drastically less "screen-door effect" and no scanlines.
Daytona USA brings back a lot of memories. I was godly good on the arcade version. When I was younger, while on a cruise, I competed in and dominated a Daytona USA tournament (I was playing against guys 10-20 years older then me, and I didn't even know how to drive a real car). After getting first place, all the hunnies wanted to give me their love. (Which, at my age, meant holding hands while watching the nightly laser light shows. Although I had a feeling that they just wanted access to my unlimited soda card I won in the tournament). This game made me a pre-teen sugar daddy (pun cringingly intended) for a week and I will always be grateful.
i still the recall the mind-blowing experience of seeing this brand new in the arcades in 1993. It was literally 🤯🤯🤯 my young teen brain had no context or preparation for 60fps textured polygons... it had all been 2d sprites until that moment. A part of me is still reeling :-D
not sure about dominant but the number of pc players is growing with the average player count at any given moment on steam being 11 million these days. Top end pcs are unquestionably superior, but still like 70% of the 11 million on steam probably have last gen power level pc's especially when the top played games aren't even demanding with counterstrike and dota, but then there is gta5 at number 3..
Modern 30fps games cover up the bad framerate with a shitton of motionblur. It makes them look smoother but to the person actually playing it makes them FEEL unresponsive and look blurry as hell.
Amazing in its day. Still looks good today, and that soundtrack? You had to be there. Sit down cabinet, steering wheel, pedals, awesome. Rolllllinnnnnng staaarrrrrrt
That was the miracle of DSP technology, the forerunner of modern GPUs. PCs never used that tech (save for a few dying oddballs in the PC industry, like the Atari Falcon). Consoles typically used the really low-end DSPs, which used expensive SRAM and were only suitable for audio. PCs and Macs were architecturally archaic at the time, both in terms of hardware and OS design. It doesn't surprise me it took about a decade after Daytona USA for PC 3D accelerators to really take off.
Not a particular fan of Daytona, but was gripped to the end. That was a perfect gaming documentary. So well put together. Hope you deservedly get paid well for all the bleeding adverts!
Framerate will always be more important to me than resolution. I will never understand why pretty much all developers on the N64 for example always used the Expansion pack for a resolution boost instead of a much needed framerate boost?... Heck, whenever you actually ran games in Hi-Res mode, the framerate would often get even worse!
Because the Expansion Pak just added RAM. That means they had access to a larger framebuffer, but that didn't mean they could fill it any faster. Not that you couldn't get any framerate boost at all with more RAM under the right circumstances, but it wasn't really something feasible for most games and even then the ones that you theoretically could do it with they would need a massive reworking of assets basically creating two different versions of the game, and when you're also working with limited cartridge space to hold all those assets it just wasn't practical. Resolution on the other hand is pretty trivial to change.
Got a Saturn last week and picked up Daytona USA from a friend. I'm addicted to that game, even with all the limitations he have. Daytona will live on, brother.
The PAL version of Daytona USA is even worst than the one shown. A slow framerate operating at an extra 17% slower with a massive black borders. It would make an interesting video covering 50hz, how getting the bonus sword in FF9 is near impossible because they didn't bother to adjust the clock for the slower speed.
Indeed, it would be nice if he included how the 50Hz versions of these retro games and how they fared. Would be nice to know who were the devs and publishers who actually gave a shit about PAL regions back in the day.
Yeah, I've wanted to talk about PAL stuff but I'm quite inexperienced with it. I recently saw a bunch of 50hz stuff at EGX and could hardly believe my eyes. 99% of my collection is NTSC, I'm afraid.
Well if you ever need a consultant or footage, I'm willing to help. There were some developers who cared about PAL, Hideo Kojima in particular went out of his way to make sure his games were the best in PAL. Not only was the conversion good, full frame, full speed but they added extra content. Or sometimes improved the graphics like Zone of the Enders 2. Another good one was Gran Turismo 2 where the clock ran slower, which made beating the times in the licence tests fair for PAL. Unfortunately these were the few exceptions rather than the norm.
The Burnout Devs too. The game work great in 50Hz and the later Burnout games even have a 60hz option or even progressive support. I guess that comes from the fact that Criterion is based in the UK, which is PAL
Your Need for Speed III example was certainly not what Need for Speed III looked like on my PC back when I bought the Voodoo 3 3000. The textures certainly had more detail than that. Googled it and yea, I think you had the detail set way down. While yea not as detailed as the newer Daytona USA game, your example of what we had in the home was quite inaccurate.
He also completely forgot that 1996 saw the release of the original 3DFX Voodoo and PC got games like Screamer 2 which with a 3dfx card ran at 60fps with complex 3d worlds texture blending and effects that original daytone couldn't even dream to have(real fog, real metallic reflections, full screen snow effects etc). For all intents and purposes 3DFX Voodoo is the moment where PC starts crushing consoles in 3D performance and the situation never reverses after that. And lol at the damned nfs 3 example PLEASE search for Quake 2 running on Voodoo 2 SLI, that is the real example of how games looked on pc in 1998 I'd argue the sli setup can push more detail than that newer daytona arcade machine at a fraction of the price...
He wasn't comparing PC to consoles, he was comparing it to Sega's (AM2) Model 2 board and what arcades had to offer back in the day. There was never a moment when consoles were superior to PC. Only now consoles are slowly catching up to PC and even then because of PC's constant evolution, PC still remains king.
+Combat Maneuvers Consoles and various microcomputers like the Amiga always had some major advantages to IBM PC's up until mainstream 3D accelerator cards released. Even after that PC's of equivalent performance were more expensive than consoles up until around 2007 or so. In the 80's and 90's the x86 PC's had an extremely hard time pulling off smooth scrolling and parallax layers. They simply weren't designed for line scrolling tricks and updating large tilemaps at high framerates. Go play Duke Nukem and Commander Keen 4 and compare them to Super Mario World and Sonic The Hedgehog. All four of those games came out the same year. As great a game as Keen 4 is there's simply no contest, the Genesis and SNES absolutely demolish the 286 and 386 equipped PC's of the era when it comes to sidescrolling. Now PC's had a lot more raw power and thus could chew through complex ray tracing or BSP calculations for games like Wolfenstein 3D and Doom which the SNES could never hope to do without major cutbacks and external hardware, but the point is consoles had very specialized hardware that allowed them to do things the PC couldn't. PC's had things they could do that consoles couldn't too, and they could even do full 3D games like Test Drive 3 and Mechwarrior 2 a full year before 3D capable consoles hit the scene, but that doesn't mean consoles were inferior in every way like you seem to imply. When the Saturn and Playstation did come out though they could spit out textured polygons at a much faster rate than affordable PC's of the era could. Early 3D cards were very expensive and very poorly supported, and while I adore System Shock that game uses a lot of 2D elements and has an abysmal framerate on hardware of the era, while Mechwarrior 2 is almost entirely untextured. It wasn't until 3D accelerators got more affordable around 96 with 3DFX and Power VR in particular really coming into their own that PC's finally took off and started demolishing consoles in all aspects, but even then you could still expect to pay 3-4 times for a capable PC compared to a console. Granted it had all the benefits of a PC alongside gaming, but still it's important to note. The landscape was very different in the 80's and 90's is what I'm saying. Consoles had very specialized hardware and were very good at what they did. Not like nowadays where everything uses x86 based CPU's and graphics hardware straight from Nvidia or AMD.
Man, I'm with you. I quit playing Soul Edge on PSX in my childhood, didn't know how to explain it, but it was definitely real. Since then, I hate lag and love frame smoothness. Even if I'm in a minority who would ditch MSAA just to have on extra frame of latency and feel nice, smooth thing all around. Also, what a fantastic episode.
Framerate has always mattered and will always matter. I would love to see framerate analysis of Gran Turismo games, all of them all the from the first PlayStation to PS3.
Will be pretty depressing, as both games on the ps3 failed to deliver locked 60fps and had frame rate drops that were all over the place even when running it at 720p with tearing on top. And based on the footage from ps4 version it looks like we will have similar issues.
Daytona is the first video game I ever played and I loved playing with my dad at a place similar to chuck e cheeses called bonkers. It's a game I rarely see get covered by you tubers or the gaming community despite its importance and fantastic gameplay/music. I have no idea who you are. All I did was type daytona In the search bar to show my dad what we played backed when I was 4, but your now in my subox and notifications. Thank you for the feels I got from remembering this gem that I'm almost forgot I played a lot of back then( well I was only four).
Damn this game is INSANE for 1993. Huge props to the team who put this together. A lot of work must have gone into figuring out how to make this game run efficiently.
You could tell in the arcades that these SEGA games were just a world apart from anything else. But they also used to be 2-3x the price of the other games
How they figured it out: money
@@MrMajani The game managed to pull in a lot of money in the arcades, especially the multiplayer capable set-ups. It was a clear indication of the future of home gaming.
The game definitely got my money! 😁
Moore's Law says that computer power and memory double every 18 months. Yet 3D power doubled every 6. There was no excuse for the Saturn to be an expensive, convoluted mess. Considering the success of their System 16 (the Megadrive/Genesis), there was no reason why they couldn't keep the 32X CD in market until the Model 1 was downsized to bring the arcade experience home in 1996. There were even accelerator cards completed for the Saturn that were nearly as powerful as the Dreamcast, yet SEGA shelved them!
When you have GE Aerospace and Lockheed Martin making your arcade boards you are going to get insane things anyway.
Thank you for making it clear that the "obsession with high frame rates" goes back way longer than what we perceive it to be. 60 fps is da king
People forget that this wasn't just 60fps, it also had *40 cars* on track! Now days on console you'll get 30fps and 6 - 12 cars.
F-Zero X on the N64 also aimed to run at 60 FPS despite the surplus of vehicles used in the game, and they succeeded very well, despite the fact polygons indeed had to be cut.
Just the IC board itself without any additional components was $15,000 in 1993. Adjusted for inflation it is $27,000 today.
It was basically a mini supercomputer inside an arcade cabinet. Now we are 25 years later and modern hardware even in smartphones is many times more powerful than the logic board of the original Daytona USA. But the thing is, Dayota USA still had low poly models, low res textures and virtually no post processing or modern lighting and shading implementation, which are the most calculation intensive.
If ported correctly Daytona USA will run on a potato computer such as your basic Raspberry Pi full speed and with upscaled resolution with no sweat and plenty of additional CPU and GPU computation time to spare.
It is the priority of graphical fidelity in modern games over framerate that hogs the system if too many cars are on screen or too much smoke comes from the tyres. It is just the philosophy of game development and marketing strategies that prevail. Gamers are drawn by pretty graphics, not by smooth gameplay if we look at statistics.
The number of cars don't matter in this case, since vehicles that weren't on-screen weren't rendered.
I don't care if your cars are ultra-300% realistic, if it's choppy, I'll play something else.
@@MilesPrower1992 yessss
Holy crap. This was an amazing episode. I always appreciated the perceived smoothness of arcade games, but never realized just how serious that was. Gotta grab the PS3 copy.
i got one..
BUT IM NOT GIVING IT HAH!
One thing left unsaid that I think merits mentioning is that even the arcade version of Daytona USA has pop-in. The developers at AM2 prioritized their near-flawless frame-rate over draw distance, in effect trading graphical density for temporal resolution. It's something I wish developers these days would do - no matter how pretty each frame is, nothing feels as good as 60 fps (or higher!).
On this particular, I'm afraid I must disagree. Regarding racing games, pop-in is just as big a flaw as a low framerate, gameplay-wise. Sure, die-hard players end up memorizing every curve, nook and crane of every track eventually, but that takes actual playing/driving ability out of the equation for the most part.
@@oscarjimenezgarrido7591 Have you played this game? It doesn't actually effect the racing at all from what I've played. It's pretty much only background objects and scenery. Which I think is a good trade off like"bVork" mentioned.
@@xXMalakianXVII
Believe me, I clocked more hours both on the arcade and the Saturn port than I care to admit. I'm not objecting on how great the game is and how good it feels to play it, I'm objecting on the notion of pop-in not being that big of an issue as framerates in racing games, on which I disagree.
With a good, well designed racer without pop-in issues, a player already experienced on the genre might be able to win a race on their very first try at a course that they were new at, if controls are tight and physics are consistent, because they might be able to react in time to incoming turns, hazards and such. With a game plagued by pop-in, that's nearly impossible - learning and memorizing the course becomes mandatory not by design, but by need, all because of the game's technical limitations.
@@oscarjimenezgarrido7591 that track itself doesn't pop in, only the background mountains trees etc. 60fps is much much more important than a few background models.
@@mmmmmmmmmmm10Frame rate and perceived responsiveness is what matters.
It's kind of depressing how half the games on the Dreamcast ran at 60fps, but the games on the PS4 and Xbox One rarely achieve that.
Because the PS4 and Xbone were based on weak hardware upon release. 8 dirt slow AMD Jaguar cores and a GPU similar to the Radeon HD 7770. The Dreamcast was as powerful as a midrange gaming PC for the time but with a stronger than typical GPU and of course, kinda short on memory... A console staple at that time given RAM prices.
And now we are back to having games barely hitting 60fps due to the high fidelity being displayed on the PS5 and Xbox Series X causing demanding performance (look at the upcoming Starfield for example).
Cause Shenmue is very well known for running at 60 fps.
such an irrelevant opinion... jeez
@@honkhonkler7732majority of 60fps games on dreamcast looked like ps1, n64 games remastered nothing impressive same for the ps2 60fps games looked like dreamcast games games that had modern graphics at the time were always 30fps
The Saturn version will always hold a special place in my heart. Most underrated console ever.
Agreed. Loved it. The control was spot on. If it wasnt it would have killed it but I didn’t notice frame rate or draw in. I was happy as a clam playing Daytona at home. Loved it. And to this day my 2nd favorite over the downloadable 2011 version. Still own my saturn.
Yep. Saturn and Dreamcast are my favourite consoles. Being able to play 3D Sega arcade titles at home was truly a magical feat back then. Sure, compromises were made to port the arcade code to these consoles with less powerful hardware, but the feeling of playing such hot arcade games with insane graphics at home was magical nevertheless
Because of what they are today, not many kids know of how great and innovative Sega was and falsely attribute Nintendo for being the sole "pioneers" of video games. But Sega were one of the giants along with Midway and Atari. Many industry standards were started by Sega as well as pushing what games were capable of gameplay-wise in reflecting body onto screen. Sega took a lot inspiration from reality for their games. Their zenith was without a doubt the Dreamcast as it truly proved unlike any other system what games creatively and artistically were able to achieve through gameplay from Virtua Fighter to Rez to Seaman to Cosmic Smash to Shenmue to Space Channel 5 to F355 Challenge. Thank you DF for teaching these guys some well-needed history.
Are there really people who call Nintendo pioneers of gaming? People attribute Nintendo for reviving the gaming market after the crash in the 1980ies, and that part is correct. And Nintendo did pioneer certain things, like a 360° thumbstick on a controller.
*****
I don't think pioneering means what you think it means...
Console gaming if anything. I've never heard a blanket statement of all gaming before, unless the person unconsciously excludes arcade and PC, which a lot do. And yeah Nintendo did introduce some neat stuff into gaming, but so did Sega and Sony as well.
Nintendo 64, along with the N64 controller, was released in June 1996.
Sega released the 3D Control Pad one month later in July 1996
Sony released the Dual Analog Controller, 10 months after the N64, in April 1997.
Shade Millith N64 was showed off much earlier than that though, in Shoshinkai in 95 iirc, and even before that there were leaks in various game mags and such.
Daytona USA was and still is the highest grossing arcade game ever made. Their was a popular saying in the industry whenever a new game came out "It's no Daytona."
Probably just in the US
Carl Zimmerman I think Pacman may have been higher possibly. But yeah Daytona USA would be up there for sure.
I played this game from 1995 up until 2007 in the arcades. They were also a lot of other pro players I battled with on the eight way machines. It was really fun. I also bought the PSN version and yes, it was a long dream came true.
Now I've moved on though. I mostly play Initial D Arcade Stage at the arcades (currently at 8, though a new version is being released in March). Sega gets a lot of flak on the mainstream but their Initial D Arcade Stage series is some of the best racing games ever made (except for 4, that was a terrible game) despite the physics revamps every version.
While a very different type of racing game than Daytona USA, in my opinion it continues the strong tradition of great racing game development from Sega that has continued for years with titles like Daytona USA.
Wasn't SF2T bigger?
@@flix5668 Yeah, it was....both Street Fighter 2 and Mortal Kombat 2 were the biggest grossing arcade games.
Pac-man caused a quarters shortage crisis
As an old gamer i experienced Daytona USA in the arcades in 1993. It was jaw dropping to experience it in the arcades. The graphics, the music, the gameplay, the cabinet. Euphoric.
DF... Never stop making DF Retro. These are a pleasure to watch...
1993: 60fps
2017: 30fps is more cinematic
Well... it is slower....
This is freaking hyprocrisy that's what it is
Not only that:
1991 (Starblade): 496x480
2016 (Nintendos current Handheld): 400x240
Can you believe it?
60 fps on a $15.000 arcade machine from 1993.
As for comparisons with hardware of the era, the video says it all, 20 fps with much worse graphics.
It's like comparing CGI graphics in Hollywood movies with PS4.
Marius Merchiers , might be "enough", but no comfortable, when you see that ps4 pro goes for 4k 30fps, i haave neverseen such absurdity. 1080p 60fps is coherent,4k 30fps is stupid
Kind of pathetic how the standard has been dropped to 30fps over time. And most of the time, it goes even lower than that. Went back to play Gamecube and Dreamcast this week, and you could IMMEDIATELY feel the difference between 60fps and 30fps.
Dreamcast was a 60fps powerhouse. Granted that a lot of those games were arcade ports. And, there was definitely a fair share of muddy low-res, low fps games. But, the things done with the hardware at the time were phenomenal.
Graphics dominated Framerate sadly overtime Blandrew. I think it started around the rise of demanding graphical games around the time PS3 and Xbox 360 came out.
+TheCRAZYGUYISHERE Many, many, many PS1 and PS2 games ran at 30 fps (or lower) in favor of having better graphics. It did not "start" with the 360/ps3 generation, though it may have gotten worse in that gen...
I remember observing that roughly two thirds of GC/PS2/Xbox games were 60fps, and that dropped to about one third of X360/PS3 games.
It might have been that "next-gen" games needed a way to differentiate themselves from the last generation. Producing vastly better graphics than the previous gen, at 3x the total resolution, was a tall order at the time*, so developers cut some corners.
(*Obviously, those consoles were a considerable step up, and that became especially evident with games like Crysis 3 later on, but some of the titles from 2005-2008 were a bit rough...)
That's why i switched to PC.
Arcade Master Race
I wish arcades wouldn't have died out in the U.S. Tired of hearing this "PC Master race" crap when for good amount of my life it was the arcade games that showed the best tech by far. Even home consoles during the late 90's-mid 2000's beat PC for a time. (at their launches) The reason it is so bad now is basically because of the Nintendo Wii. They won that gen with a cheap console and the other companies took note. It made me sick to see MS not go for power, as their first two consoles were the most powerful. The PS4 was nothing to write home about either.
I grew up in the 90s so I sort of missed out on the arcades. Our movie theater had a few machines but the roulette thing dealed out more tickets so I'd play that for prizes. Other than that I really only saw Street Fighter and 1942 almost everywhere.
Graphics are pretty much as good as they need to be, I wonder if at some point developers will see no need to go any deeper and can go back to making good games
@@DigitalHaze65536 the Xbox OG was the ONLY superior Xbox of the console gen (6th). The Xbox 360 was inferior to the ps3 in hardware (7th gen). And as for the xbox one it was also inferior to the ps4 (8th gen). Plus the Wii was popular not because it was a "cheap" console but rather with clever marketing, targeting ALL audiences, and having a lineup of games for all ages. Plus its motion control was such an impact that even PlayStation and Xbox made their own during the "motion control craze" which was the PSmove & Kinect.
@@Abel-Alvarez Most 3rd party titles had better showings on the Xbox 360 vs. the PS3, plus it came out 1 year earlier, so I'd say that is pretty superior. On paper and in a select FEW games the PS3 was superior, but real world trumps theory.
@@DigitalHaze65536 yeah that was because the xbox 360 was earier to develop games for AT FIRST. But once the developers understood the technology the PS3 was capable of it overshadowed the 360 throughout it's life span.
After 25 years, Daytona USA 2 had finally made it home. Kind of. More accurately, you can play Sega Racing Classic 2 in Like A Dragon Gaiden which came out today.
It's fun to see how far arcades were ahead of the PC and consoles back in the day
Not long after that, arcades started using off-the-shelf pc hardware, such as the RingEdge and RingWide. Though to be fair, with a 8800 GS and an Intel Pentium Dual Core (a cut back Core 2 Duo), RingEdge produces far better results than the PS3 and 360.
Some shooter games on the PS3/360 ran at 60 fps (something CoD actually did right), though the sacrifices were pretty severe to make it happen.
Even now arcade machines have huge resolutions and fantastic sound, because all the hardware is dedicated unlike the multimedia boxes and PC.
But games are made using a PC....PC has to be superior, always.
Chris jT I don’t think Daytona USA 2 could run on a top-of-the-line Pentium 2 machine with SLI VooDoo 2s
@@disappointednep-nep2430 Yeah, actually you're right...I think the arcade hardware is a lot different to PC hardware.
Still got this on the Saturn, Dreamcast and 360. I fell in love when playing it in the arcades back when it was released. Sega was at the top of it's Arcade game back then!
Wtf?! Why the hell did Sega never port Daytona 2? That's an amazing game. I thought there'd be a version at least somewhere.
Daytona 2 used the Model 3 arcade board, which notoriously was hard to port to Dreamcast. Aside from Virtua Fighter 3, there weren't any major ports. Early on they tried porting Scud Race / Super GT, which Daytona 2 was based on, but couldn't. You can watch the test bringup videos of Scud Race on Dreamcast, it would have been horrible.
Model 3 was even more powerful than Model 2 in its time. It outperforms Xbox and PS2. It aligns much more with Xbox 360 and PS3.
Know it's six years since you asked, but that's the reason. Sega paired Dreamcast with NAOMI much earlier on, than Saturn was paired with ST-V, and that made porting NAOMI games a trivial affair to Dreamcast... leading to a host of ports from day one, like House of The Dead 2 and Confidential Mission.
@@ChristopherPrice
Model 3 is more powerful than PS2 and Xbox? Based on what, polygon count? Resolution?
Hell, compare a game like Star Wars Trilogy Arcade against Star Wars Rogue Leader on GameCube. Rogue Leader definitely looks better to me.
And the closest analogue I can think of when comparing games like Daytona 2 and Scud Race would probably be against something like Outrun 2. I'd say Outrun 2 is pretty comparable to those at least. Hell, could the Model 3 make a game like Burnout 3 or Burnout Revenge look better if it released in arcades?
Though, to bring the good news, Daytona 2 at last got ported to home consoles via Like a Dragon Gaiden, renamed as SEGA Racing Classic 2!
A useful tip for any fans of this game who want to play it using M2Emulator: By default, depending on your romset, Daytona USA might run with somewhat washed out colours like the footage in this video, however if you change the cabinet type to a different model, for example changing Upright to Deluxe, might fix them. I can’t remember what I had to set mine too but I got it working eventually. I assume certain cabinet types must’ve just used different displays which needed different colour settings. After doing this, the colours will be a much closer match for every other version of Daytona, being closest to the 360 & PS3 rerelease, where it’s pretty much a perfect match. It also makes the Saturn ports (especially the first one) look less strange in comparison.
This game was like ten years ahead of its time and still hold up today as a great arcade game. I miss when sega was on top of their game they just pushed boundaries when ever they could.
60fps > 99x MSAA, realistic shadows for each strand of hair, physics on every grain of sand, please may devs and publishers understand that some beautiful day
Sadly you can't show framerate in a screenshot.
Don't expect it in games with realistic water physics (least of all in games where said physics affect planning).
Daytona USA is my favorite arcade racing game of all time!
It was my very first Saturn game and i still play it from time to time.
Yu Suzuki was like a God for me. I f***** LOVE Virtua Fighter, OutRun, Shenmue and Virtua Cop! BTW Thanks for using music of one of the rarest SEGA Saturn games (Blast Wind) BIG thumbs up guys!!
Sega was a key player in making 3D Games popular.Not many people know that,.
@@GrayFoxGamingHD
Alot of people strangely seem to forget that.
Yu Suzuki and Toshihiro Nagoshi are the two men that defined my childhood when it came to video games. Yu Suzuki created Virtua Fighter and helped produce Daytona USA, while Nagoshi was given the chance to direct Daytona from Suzuki. Funny thing is, I didn't know Nagoshi was the creator of the Yakuza series till a couple years back, so the man is responsible for two of my favorite series of all time.
Cheers
Personally, I felt that Ridge Racer was more state of the art at the arcades. Pumped up soundtrack and feels that just totally had the 90's vibe all over it. It was the cooler game, in my mind.
A truly amazing game. The only game to come close to this level of brilliance was Sega Rally which I feel had and still has the best handling of any game.
On 360 framerate is perfect. Too bad there wasn't a home version like this in the 90s
I think Midtown Madness, a PC exclusive open world racing game from 1999 deserves some attention. It was definitely a game ahead of its time.
trash game
doubt they can outdo Lazy Game Reviews
CMSonYT yeah, his review was awesome
Prince Dizzy what was wrong with it? I genuinely want to know.
srba filipovic if you'd look at his other comments, you'd realize he's just a troll.
God, I love these videos. I get nostalgic feels while I learn about the intricacies of game development. Such a well made video series, thank you DF. You guys are fantastic.
1993 - Daytona (60fps)
2016
DriveClub (30fps)
Forza Horizon 3 (30fps)
Where humanity began to fall?
Come to the PC brother, where all games can be run at 60fps. And those that can't are fixed by fellow brothers and sisters
If framerate matters to you, the PC is the literally only suitable platform.
It's quite sad that there isn't a single console available for gamers with higher standards. But then again a $800 console powerful enough for 60 FPS gameplay would probably flop, because the intersection of gamers who want 60 FPS and don't already play on PC is probably too small.
Not all games run at 60 fps lol. That's a flat out lie. You'd had to have something that is significantly more expensive than a home console. Best recent example is Forza Horizon 3.
An $800 console would most certainly flop and not sale nowhere near as good as they have been. Then again, for that price, you bet it would run all games at 1080p60fps.
It's only the Xbox version of fh3 that runs at 30fps.
I got a little emotional watching this one, great times.
Great vid. Last Bronx deserved a nod, since you were talking about a 60fps conversion for Saturn
I remember seeing this game and other 60fps titles as a child and not understanding why it looked so much better. It just did. I wasn't even able to realize it was smoother. it was just better.
*smashes into the outside wall in Daytona USA*
ahh the memories
This is why I have the Daytona USA upright cabinet in my garage. You can't beat the real thing! ;)
Loved this video, it's nice to see the first Saturn Daytona get some recognition for playing really well even though the framerate was dodgy. I would also say that the first Saturn Daytona deserves some plaudits for being able to display 38 cars simultaneously, I think this is one of the reasons the engine struggles so much in other areas. I really don't like the second Daytona, while it runs better it just misses everything else that made Daytona fun.
I still replay Dreamcast Daytona all the time, I've heard it plays identically to the arcade game if you play it on a steering wheel. I've found it's possible to tweak the joypad controls to the point where it plays quite similarly to the arcade but the game does still play a bit differently (enemy cars aren't welded to the track like they are in the arcade version).
Can we have a similar video looking at the Ridge Racer series? I'd love a deep dive on the Super System 22 hardware (I also have a Time Crisis 1 cabinet in the garage...) ;)
It’s now 2024. Daytona 2 has finally achieved a home console port, renamed as Sega Classic Racing 2, as an arcade minigame inside a Yakuza spinoff.
Finally!
Uk didn’t see this game until 94. In the summer of that year me and the family went to the north of England and while visiting an arcade I saw Daytona for the first time (was already blown away by Virtual Racing), I had to go and find my dad to get him to ‘come and see this game’ he wasn’t as impressed as me lol. Fast forward to 2000 when I was living in Sydney Australia and they had an 8 player setup which was always super busy on the weekend. I spent alot of money on that game and has some fierce battles with people on there once I mastered the drifting technique. Great times when I didn’t need alcohol to feel good, and just goes to show how amazing the game was even after 7 years. I’ve found Daytona cabinets scattered around various arcades at beach resorts but you can almost always guarantee gear selector/screen/steering wheel feedback issues due to neglect 😢
ROOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLIIINNNNNGGG STTTTAAAARRRRRRTTTTTT!
I got this and a Sega Saturn on Christmas morning and played it until I feel asleep sitting up, pad in hand.
60fps should be standard! End of!
yet a lot of console gamers either accept it as standard or state there is no difference 30 to 60.
It's mind boggling.
Yes, any developer guilty of making a sub-60fps game should be shot upon release. Publishers will be tried in a court of law to determine guilt, then shot. Any consumers who knowingly purchased such games -- yep, shot. All of the above will have three generations of their family imprisoned in a Electronic Arts labor camp.
And you wonder why PC gamers are hated everywhere.
Uhhh.... if all games were 60FPS console players would benefit too. That is a good thing. Don't know why you guys act like it's against you lol
hated everywhere!!?? what a statement......
No discussion here, best move along.
I love these videos! Super interesting. Keep it up Digitalfoundry! ;D
Great article, thanks. Actually the Dreamcast version, while being really twitchy using the controller, played like a dream on the Dreamcast Wheel controller. I suspect this is what the developers were aiming at, and just bolted on controller support. If you own a Dreamcast and have their original wheel controller, it plays beautifully. Almost like the arcade.
The Arcade cabinet version of the game looks amazing even by today's standards, let alone 1993.
Sega you were and always will be remembered as the best in gaming!
More so 80-90's Arcade games ❤🎮. Those hydraulic cabinets..... WOW!!! Space Harrier, Out Run... you know the rest.... (1985+)
Hey, they're not dead! Unless you're talking about hardware.
nope
they still make great arcade games
..sonic mania?? Sega confirmed to remake and remaster alot of their classics with their new teams:)
Excellent video DF, one of my favourite games. As a point of note, Ridge Racer came out in the arcades first and that for me was my first experience of 60fps polygon visuals. However Daytona was on a far larger scale and with that tremendous multiplayer. Also it should be noted that Sega used Daytone USA arcade development videos that looked even better than the final game when previewing the Saturn at CES Las Vegas early 94., that misled a lot of us as the to performance of the final hardware. Also I played a preview copy of Japanese version pre-release in March 95', the global first showing bhcd of the title and can tell you it ran far worse than the title released the following month. But with so much progress made in that 4 weeks, one can't help but wonder how much it would have helped the Saturn to have delayed that title. 14 months later we had Sega Rally, VF2 and Virtua Cop, it was like a different system but by then the war was over and Sony were dominant.
Thanks for keeping the narrative real and accurate.
framerate has always been way more important to me then visual quality. Just feels better in so many ways.
I agree, hyper realistic graphics are boring anyway.
I love you can clearly hear the Japanese pronunciation of L in the iconic "rolling start" line in this vid
DF, I hardly comment on videos but I would like you to know that this is why I enjoy your channel so immensely. These DF retro: videos are by far your best series and so interesting!
CONSOLE back in the day with full 60fps , beautiful graphic compare to the 90's!
console now day.....30fps 1080p on racing game! 30 F P S
PC:
All games 60 FPS 1080p
700$
Any controller,mouse,keyboard,wheel
Downsampling on older games
All retro games
You'll never beat actual hardware with emulation. Kids these days...
Not a console, but a $15000 arcade board. That is $25000 today adjusted for inflation.
Marcuss2 oh my mistake
+Asakura D depends what you wanna emulate
The video showed that the color are wrong for moderns screens, you need change (F2) the "Test settings", the Cabinet mode, from Twin (color for CRT monitor) to Deluxe mode, for full color patterns in Projectors, LCD...
Really all games at SEGA Model 2 hardware run at 57,524160fps not 60,0fps
Can't spell 57,524160fps without 60fps.
My friends and i spend days breaking each others Daytona records. Then Sega Rally came out on Saturn :O
Now that was a good port!
I still liked Daytona but Sega Rally was perfect.
Game Over Yeah
With the game being delisted from the Xbox 360 Marketplace soon I was torn over which titles to add to my collection. Watching this bumped it to the top of my list. Thanks for all of your work John and everyone at DF!
I still think Daytona USA looks great today. It looks very dynamic with the shaking car body and tires which pops in and out. Oh, and blistering fast speed.
That title be pissing off a lot of console peas...users
If you've got the money to back it up that is.
@Kylealien Complaining about adjusting settings? Do you also complain about having to adjust hot and cold water when you shower? Do you complain when you adjust your volume? Seriously you act like its some sort of enormous task.
+Kylealien majority games on consoles are sub 60 fps
We don't HAVE to constantly change settings,BUT WE CAN.
I don't have a job yet
I'm 16
+Icureditwithmybrain ikr
***** So because some people choose to spend hours adjusting settings that means its impossible to play a game on pc immediately after turning it on? Newsflash nothing is stopping you from playing the game at the default settings.
And now, we're finally getting Daytona 3.
Despite its low frame rate I still had more fun with the original Saturn release than I did both CCE and the Dreamcast remake, though I did play loads of the latter once I got used to the new steering. So glad Sega finally gave us a arcade perfect port and it's one of the main reasons I simply cannot let go of my PS3 haha. Steam releases of both that and the amazing sequel would be perfect, though one of my local arcades thankfully still has a Daytona 2 machine.
Brilliant episode, back when Sega were arcade gods. I hope you can do a Virtua Fighter episode one day going through the history of the series including it's surprisingly great VF2 port on Saturn and just what a revolution VF3 was in the arcades.
I think a an arcade perfect Nintendo Switch release of Daytona USA would be awesome. If the PS3 And XBox 360 can handle it, the Nintendo Switch surely can, maybe even with four-player modes!
Holy hell, this video has not aged A SINGLE BIT!
amazing work with this one man, i was convinced this was a recent one until i saw it is from 2016
3 things must be said.
1) This was a great retrospective to what Daytona meant in the quality path for gaming
2) correct me if i'm wrong, but i'd swear that Daytona 3 existed and i felt weird when it wasn't mentioned
3) how can you play the arcade version nowadays? I can't find any emulator or even an arcade machine where i live
SuperModel emulator for Sega Model 3. And Mame for Sega Model 2 emulation
When I was in my twenties I played the arcade version a lot.
YOU SEXUALLY HARASSED THE ARCADE VERSION IN YOUR 20s... DISGUSTING!!! DISGUSTING!!! DISGUSTING!!
Same here. I tried the slot machine trick on the oval course all the time but could never get lucky 7's and win a free continue lol.
How dare you?!! how dare you!!
Hugh Mungous here in Greece was very popular,the arcade machine, every small city or big ,had one cabinet of this awesome game !!!
Yo what up Hugh Mungus..hows it hanging😅😅
Daytona on the Saturn was an amazing game. Yes it was downgraded when it came out. However the devs had something like 5 months to put it together to meet launch on new hardware they were not familiar with. However the gameplay was identical to the arcade and that was what matter. Besides when it came out I had never played the arcade game and it was the most impressive 3D I had seen at home.
Just remember kids, Framerate always matters, except when you're making excuses.
Really enjoyed that. On the topic of 1998 PC comparisons at 13:10 I'd suggest Sega Rally 2 or Grand Prix legends as a simulation and arcade example, both much more detailed and giving that arcade a good run for its money.
I have no idea why people complain about controls in Daytona USA 2001. Once you lower sensitivity to the lowest, it controls amazing with analog stick and triggers.
Framerate has always mattered. Even on the NES where almost all games were 60fps, when some game was 30fps it looked like crap. There was an era when it seemed like 60fps almost became a standard (PS2 and Gamecube), but after that it was forgotten for a long time. It pissed me off. After PS3 and PS4 era, it seems like 60fps finally seems to be targeted more.
I think you opened the Sega can of worms... Virtua fighter, panzer Dragoon, virtua racing, or even namcos Ridge racer would be great follow ups.
the only panzer dragoon that runs at 60 fps is PD Orta though
What about the Xbox port of the original? I'm assuming that was the pc version?
Well they did rrtype 4 and rrv.
junta21st yep, you are right, I agree
He kinda covered virtua fighter in the shenmue video, but id love to see it get its own video
Hard Drivin was a memorable game back then, It was so impressive those 3D graphics. I still love that game
Great video DF! It reminds me of one of the great mysteries of retro gaming / computing. Most tech fans of a certain age can name the first 64 bit console and CPU but nobody knows what the first arcade game to have a 64 bit CPU is. It might be Virtua Fighter 3 but nobody seems to know.
Yeah to the point MAME is chuckling while running it lol
AWESOME! Well done! I am so glad I was able to get Daytona for my Xbox 360. At first I was disappointed it was not the Dreamcast version but my nostalgia for that game made me forget how badly it played. Again, well done!
Can you imagine what a $15,000 (or rather 25,000 when adjusted for inflation) arcade cabinet could do today?
16K 60fps
Why do the arcades have to be extinct in America?
I'm pretty sure the graphics cards people have at home is the most high fidelity experience available today. And devs would have to make games specific to an arcade platform, which isn't profitable.
They are extinct all over the world because the developers got lazy. This is THE BEST arcade game because of what it represents. Hard work, space age development and a dream. now arcade manufacturers slap a cheap pc with a HD screen together, tape a ticket machine to the side and call it a day. I remember a time when home was not as good as the arcade and graphics like that at home were a dream. They should have gone forward with VR in the 90s and made it arcade exclusive.
Nobody would ever make a $15,000 arcade cabinet today. All the arcade cabinets now are just Windows PCs. Even consoles have moved in this direction.
The arcades used to be able to offer experiences that you simply couldn't replicate at home. Now, home consoles are so crazy good that there's really nothing an arcade machine could give you that a console couldn't. I love the arcades and frequently visit ones in my home country, but this is the sad truth.
The reason why they cost so much was because arcade cabinets were low-volume kits. Modern graphics cards would cost $15,000 each if they were made by the thousands, rather than millions. Taking volume into consideration, it's easy to see why even 2D games and pinball machines cost upwards of $5,000 back then.
What I want to know is why you can't find more racing arcade games in malls and stuff. Racing games benefit tremendously from a seat, steering wheel, and pedals -- an experience that's hard to replicate at home, if not for cost reasons, but also space and setup time.
You are _killing_ me with "solidarity" when you really mean "solidity."
Really excellent video, I both enjoyed it and agree with everything you've sdaid about the importance of 60fps, particularly in arcade racers.
I'll never forget when my local hangout got a 4 player Daytona machine in, i was blown away and then some, i also loved the Saturn version when and prefer it to the CE version but the CE version does have the added tracks so is always worth a play!
DigitalFoundry is 2nd to none for this type of content! Love it!
Great video. I bought the Saturn -- and Daytona USA -- on day one in the US (when it launched unexpectedly). Comparing it to our beloved arcade machine was a great lesson in 3D graphics -- the importance of resolution, bilinear texture filtering, perspective correct mapping, polygon count, texture resolution, on-screen bit depth, and YEP, frame rate.
Beyond that, the Saturn was displayed on our interlaced TV using an RCA video cable (composite I think it's been called), while the arcade Daytona used a beautiful progressive scan RGB screen with drastically less "screen-door effect" and no scanlines.
Wish we could get a 30 year anniversary PC version in 2023 that has the original graphics and plays at any resolution and framerate.
Will you guys be covering the Saturn port of Virtua Fighter 2? I think that's a very interesting port that deserves a second look.
Holy shit!
The music is taking me back to when we all actually liked gaming.
Daytona USA brings back a lot of memories. I was godly good on the arcade version. When I was younger, while on a cruise, I competed in and dominated a Daytona USA tournament (I was playing against guys 10-20 years older then me, and I didn't even know how to drive a real car).
After getting first place, all the hunnies wanted to give me their love. (Which, at my age, meant holding hands while watching the nightly laser light shows. Although I had a feeling that they just wanted access to my unlimited soda card I won in the tournament).
This game made me a pre-teen sugar daddy (pun cringingly intended) for a week and I will always be grateful.
i still the recall the mind-blowing experience of seeing this brand new in the arcades in 1993. It was literally 🤯🤯🤯 my young teen brain had no context or preparation for 60fps textured polygons... it had all been 2d sprites until that moment. A part of me is still reeling :-D
This is one of the most amazing tech videos I`ve seen in a LONG WHILE, thank you for this
Buy Daytona USA HD on PSN and XBL stores before it's too late! I'm sure Sega will delist it somewhere in the near future.
I never did. PC isn't a corporation...
Why not PC is great mate
Yes you was on the PS4 video the other day telling everyone pc is "The dominant species"
not sure about dominant but the number of pc players is growing with the average player count at any given moment on steam being 11 million these days.
Top end pcs are unquestionably superior, but still like 70% of the 11 million on steam probably have last gen power level pc's especially when the top played games aren't even demanding with counterstrike and dota, but then there is gta5 at number 3..
I find it strange that out of all the people posting "PC Master Race" comments you remember, and take interest in, this one.
Modern 30fps games cover up the bad framerate with a shitton of motionblur. It makes them look smoother but to the person actually playing it makes them FEEL unresponsive and look blurry as hell.
0:36
Where's that song from? (Or is it actually a remixed Daytona song?)
Its "Ultimate Destroyer" by Saitama Saisyu Heiki, a remix of songs from the game Blast wind on the sega saturn.
@@chumigoo-senpai740 Thank you so much. I just listened to it by itself and it has me in tears. This song is FUCKING NUTS.
DAMN IT MAN! Please put out more DF Retro videos. It's one of the best things on UA-cam.
Amazing in its day. Still looks good today, and that soundtrack? You had to be there. Sit down cabinet, steering wheel, pedals, awesome. Rolllllinnnnnng staaarrrrrrt
Soundtrack for this is so good 0:50
Oh man. What's the track used from the start of the video until 2:53?
It's from a really rare and expensive SEGA Saturn SHMUP by TechnoSoft called "Blast Wind" If i remember right the track is named "Destroyer".
+DHH I know right? ITS SICK!
I have the game. It's called "Blast Wind" It set me back 100 bucks back in 2011. You can find the soundtrack on channel called retroagefan.
It just impresses me that a game in '93 looked like a early ps2 title. That 15K arcade machine must've been a powerhouse.
That was the miracle of DSP technology, the forerunner of modern GPUs. PCs never used that tech (save for a few dying oddballs in the PC industry, like the Atari Falcon). Consoles typically used the really low-end DSPs, which used expensive SRAM and were only suitable for audio.
PCs and Macs were architecturally archaic at the time, both in terms of hardware and OS design. It doesn't surprise me it took about a decade after Daytona USA for PC 3D accelerators to really take off.
This deserve more attention. I stumbled upon the OST of this game by chance, gonna use it for outros. Good luck with your future videos!
Not a particular fan of Daytona, but was gripped to the end.
That was a perfect gaming documentary. So well put together. Hope you deservedly get paid well for all the bleeding adverts!
Fun fact: Sega Racing Classic would’ve been a proper rerelease of Daytona but someone else had brought the license so Sega couldn’t get it.
Thankyou for that brilliant video, 60fps all the way..in your face ps4 pro
Stuart Sumner Yeah, I would have gotten the PS4 Pro if they emphasized 60FPS over 4K (though I guess it might be more expensive)
Framerate will always be more important to me than resolution.
I will never understand why pretty much all developers on the N64 for example always used the Expansion pack for a resolution boost instead of a much needed framerate boost?...
Heck, whenever you actually ran games in Hi-Res mode, the framerate would often get even worse!
Banjo-Tooie was practically unplayable on the N64 as a result of that. Thankfully the X360 port fixed the frame rate issues.
Magazines/Print media would have had an effect on design. You cannot show 60fps in print unlike higher resolution.
Because the Expansion Pak just added RAM. That means they had access to a larger framebuffer, but that didn't mean they could fill it any faster. Not that you couldn't get any framerate boost at all with more RAM under the right circumstances, but it wasn't really something feasible for most games and even then the ones that you theoretically could do it with they would need a massive reworking of assets basically creating two different versions of the game, and when you're also working with limited cartridge space to hold all those assets it just wasn't practical. Resolution on the other hand is pretty trivial to change.
Got a Saturn last week and picked up Daytona USA from a friend. I'm addicted to that game, even with all the limitations he have. Daytona will live on, brother.
I was distant towards the DF Retro at first, but this video is one of the best you made to the moment! Keep it up DF :)
Can we have one on Metropolis Street Racer/PGR? It was incredible.
Do a video on 50hz and all that assorted crap!
The PAL version of Daytona USA is even worst than the one shown. A slow framerate operating at an extra 17% slower with a massive black borders. It would make an interesting video covering 50hz, how getting the bonus sword in FF9 is near impossible because they didn't bother to adjust the clock for the slower speed.
Indeed, it would be nice if he included how the 50Hz versions of these retro games and how they fared. Would be nice to know who were the devs and publishers who actually gave a shit about PAL regions back in the day.
Yeah, I've wanted to talk about PAL stuff but I'm quite inexperienced with it. I recently saw a bunch of 50hz stuff at EGX and could hardly believe my eyes. 99% of my collection is NTSC, I'm afraid.
Well if you ever need a consultant or footage, I'm willing to help. There were some developers who cared about PAL, Hideo Kojima in particular went out of his way to make sure his games were the best in PAL. Not only was the conversion good, full frame, full speed but they added extra content. Or sometimes improved the graphics like Zone of the Enders 2. Another good one was Gran Turismo 2 where the clock ran slower, which made beating the times in the licence tests fair for PAL. Unfortunately these were the few exceptions rather than the norm.
The Burnout Devs too. The game work great in 50Hz and the later Burnout games even have a 60hz option or even progressive support. I guess that comes from the fact that Criterion is based in the UK, which is PAL
Your Need for Speed III example was certainly not what Need for Speed III looked like on my PC back when I bought the Voodoo 3 3000. The textures certainly had more detail than that. Googled it and yea, I think you had the detail set way down. While yea not as detailed as the newer Daytona USA game, your example of what we had in the home was quite inaccurate.
He also completely forgot that 1996 saw the release of the original 3DFX Voodoo and PC got games like Screamer 2 which with a 3dfx card ran at 60fps with complex 3d worlds texture blending and effects that original daytone couldn't even dream to have(real fog, real metallic reflections, full screen snow effects etc). For all intents and purposes 3DFX Voodoo is the moment where PC starts crushing consoles in 3D performance and the situation never reverses after that.
And lol at the damned nfs 3 example PLEASE search for Quake 2 running on Voodoo 2 SLI, that is the real example of how games looked on pc in 1998 I'd argue the sli setup can push more detail than that newer daytona arcade machine at a fraction of the price...
He wasn't comparing PC to consoles, he was comparing it to Sega's (AM2) Model 2 board and what arcades had to offer back in the day. There was never a moment when consoles were superior to PC. Only now consoles are slowly catching up to PC and even then because of PC's constant evolution, PC still remains king.
@@cocosrevenge
Pissy mustard rice still feel the need to show off their "superiority". Fuck off.
Woah there buddy too much salt can cause strokes
+Combat Maneuvers Consoles and various microcomputers like the Amiga always had some major advantages to IBM PC's up until mainstream 3D accelerator cards released. Even after that PC's of equivalent performance were more expensive than consoles up until around 2007 or so.
In the 80's and 90's the x86 PC's had an extremely hard time pulling off smooth scrolling and parallax layers. They simply weren't designed for line scrolling tricks and updating large tilemaps at high framerates. Go play Duke Nukem and Commander Keen 4 and compare them to Super Mario World and Sonic The Hedgehog. All four of those games came out the same year. As great a game as Keen 4 is there's simply no contest, the Genesis and SNES absolutely demolish the 286 and 386 equipped PC's of the era when it comes to sidescrolling.
Now PC's had a lot more raw power and thus could chew through complex ray tracing or BSP calculations for games like Wolfenstein 3D and Doom which the SNES could never hope to do without major cutbacks and external hardware, but the point is consoles had very specialized hardware that allowed them to do things the PC couldn't. PC's had things they could do that consoles couldn't too, and they could even do full 3D games like Test Drive 3 and Mechwarrior 2 a full year before 3D capable consoles hit the scene, but that doesn't mean consoles were inferior in every way like you seem to imply.
When the Saturn and Playstation did come out though they could spit out textured polygons at a much faster rate than affordable PC's of the era could. Early 3D cards were very expensive and very poorly supported, and while I adore System Shock that game uses a lot of 2D elements and has an abysmal framerate on hardware of the era, while Mechwarrior 2 is almost entirely untextured. It wasn't until 3D accelerators got more affordable around 96 with 3DFX and Power VR in particular really coming into their own that PC's finally took off and started demolishing consoles in all aspects, but even then you could still expect to pay 3-4 times for a capable PC compared to a console. Granted it had all the benefits of a PC alongside gaming, but still it's important to note.
The landscape was very different in the 80's and 90's is what I'm saying. Consoles had very specialized hardware and were very good at what they did. Not like nowadays where everything uses x86 based CPU's and graphics hardware straight from Nvidia or AMD.
Man, I'm with you. I quit playing Soul Edge on PSX in my childhood, didn't know how to explain it, but it was definitely real. Since then, I hate lag and love frame smoothness. Even if I'm in a minority who would ditch MSAA just to have on extra frame of latency and feel nice, smooth thing all around.
Also, what a fantastic episode.
I have never seen or played Daytona, but this video made me buy it for the xbox one. ITS AMAZING! Thank you!
Framerate has always mattered and will always matter. I would love to see framerate analysis of Gran Turismo games, all of them all the from the first PlayStation to PS3.
Will be pretty depressing, as both games on the ps3 failed to deliver locked 60fps and had frame rate drops that were all over the place even when running it at 720p with tearing on top. And based on the footage from ps4 version it looks like we will have similar issues.
Yeah, but I want to see that analysis.
I'm kinda surprised you didn't touch on emulation, where Nebula/Model2 emulators have been playing arcade versions of Daytona since 2006ish.
The game still looks fantastic aesthetically
I would like to see SEGA port the Daytona USA games to GOG under the Sega Racing Classic branding
Daytona is the first video game I ever played and I loved playing with my dad at a place similar to chuck e cheeses called bonkers. It's a game I rarely see get covered by you tubers or the gaming community despite its importance and fantastic gameplay/music. I have no idea who you are. All I did was type daytona In the search bar to show my dad what we played backed when I was 4, but your now in my subox and notifications. Thank you for the feels I got from remembering this gem that I'm almost forgot I played a lot of back then( well I was only four).