Oooh! This one is going to my starred folder! This is such an important topic and thanks a lot Christian for talking about it. I'll come back to it if I freak out at some point! Notes can be tricky, yeah. I think I went through everything you mentioned 😆 Tabasco through the roof! But eventually, I also found that sleeping on it helps. Meditation, affirmations and some usual fun, like running around the flat with my cat. It's that emotional connection to the work that gets lighted up once the notes arrive, and just giving it a bit of time helps in grounding. Sometimes literally walking barefoot on the rocks by the beach, or on the soil, does the trick. Connection with the nature always brings the balance. And then, the good communication is the best solution as you said. Great stuff, as always 👌
The most important thing you have to remember when delivering something to someone who has hired you to make it is this. The thing (music, a drawing, software, a new shelf, whatever) does not belong to you. The person who hired you specified it (however well or badly) and paid for it. It’s theirs, and they have a right to receive what they paid for. As artists, we put ourselves into our work, so criticism of the work feels like criticism of our selves. Especially if it’s very negative. But the art we produce for hire is NOT ours. It belongs to the hiring entity, and when they criticize the work, they are just saying that it doesn’t meet their needs. As an artist, we can say “So what?” to that. As an employee, we should say “OK, I’ll fix it.”
When I deliver, I try to remember the mandala (in fact, I used to wear one on a necklace): Monks will spend weeks, painstakingly crafting a mandala and, when it's finished, they wipe it all away. This is a reminder to care deeply about the journey and craft but that, when it's finished, it no longer belongs to us.
Also have you seen how much mandalas look like the patterns different notes make when vibrating water? www.saltspring.band/2018/11/08/photography-of-music-notes-in-a-bowl-of-water/
Brilliant. I could not agree more. The mandala is a wonderful metaphor for what we do as creators. The journey and craft are everything, but everything we craft is also ephemeral.
Though i revere Thelonious, I hate his saying on "dancing about architecture". I get his point on "talking about music" but as a former architect I can tell that dancing is certainly not the worst thing one could do about architeture... Now as a former architect i can confirm that in applied arts (as is music for movies or games) you have to, by essence, satisfy the desire of sombody else... (most of the time several persons) You have to get to the point of being able to cope with notes, and, even, take them as some kind of fuel for moving on toward a better version of your work. But, dear Christian, as always, you make a very clear and good point about your subject, i am so happy to hear and see you regularly again.
Love how frank this take is. Feedback is unavoidable - every person who will ever hear our music will have an opinion of it, and those who pay us have the luxury of mandating that we care about their opinion. Some of my best work has come about because I was willing to totally scratch my work and start again, with new direction, trusting the producer (who was overriding the director..). Also, some of my worst work has come about because of feedback. But it got me paid.
Something I’ve found to be very helpful with feedback… other composers who you can bounce things off. It’s great to have someone who can understand your feelings and give you encouragement but also who can help with solutions to problems set by the feedback (like suggesting different instrumentation, or simplifying something, or just adding some delay/reverb).
Outstanding post, Christian. I recently floated a new piece by my wife and a trusted friend, and they both were quite frank about how bad one of the instruments sounded in the mixed piece. I had worked for days learning about the instrument's (a Bluegrass fiddle VST) articulations, created a custom articulation map, and really worked hard to get this track sounding as authentic as possible. In the end, I had achieved mastery of that particular instrument, but failed to understand that the piece actually required another instrument and not the fiddle. Their feedback was constructive and upon reflection, they were right. Doesn't mean it doesn't hurt, but pull up those socks and use the experience to get better at your craft.
Thanks this is a great little film full of positivity. Regarding ‘not asking for more money’ at the feedback stage (I believe this was mentioned I may be wrong) .. i think, is not always good general advice. Working as a composer, in a broader sense, can leave you at the mercy of too much feedback and messy organisation from the client. When, as often composers are, up against time and small budgets, I believe that using money negotiations is one of your best tools of coming out of the gig healthy.
One way to soften the emotional impact of any written feedback, and “hear” it better, is to control the “voice” you read it with in your mind. I regularly got feedback from a very critical person I didn’t like or respect. One time is was so angry with some feedback that I didn’t know what to do and went boxing and actually really damaged my hands, and quickly realised that want helping! I came back to the notes with a fresh approach and read it in my head, but used my daughter’s voice. It totally changed the way I received it and was suddenly actually able to identify with some bits of it, as it was now from someone gentle that I loved and respected. I immediately saw what it was I was doing that they didn’t like, changed it, sent it back, and hey presto, they loved it and we have a really solid working relationship now. For people with high standards, we tend to be our own worst critic and the internal critical voice is the harshest. Change that voice and helps you to be more open to hearing what is probably intended as supportive challenge.
Love the advice here. When I'm given notes, I do something similar. Read them right away and send a friendly acknowledgement.. Take the dogs out for a walk... Go out for a run. Something that allows me to digest everything and mentally prepare for the next steps. Its all about the mindset... I've never had notes that weren't for a good reason, although sometimes at the time of reading it doesn't always feel that way! I think written critique always reads worse in an email than it might be picking up the phone and talking it through. Considering how much money and time is invested in these projects its so important not to let ego get in the way, and remember that the 'work' is ultimately a collaboration, not a showcase of musical chops... Save that for an album release!
Life is better again since you're back on the block with these candid and helpful videos for the rest of us! I missed you and these and I couldn't be happier that you're back in stride, new team, new outfit name, same mission: Showing us ways of surviving this sharkpit and ... maybe, just maybe getting to the point where it gets a tad bit better than mere survival. So great to have you back! (... and little lizard brain's job is to secrete a teaspoonful of feelgood juices....😅)
I worked with someone whilst set building who used a technique to please designers who wanted the impossible. Build in several easy fix, yet shocking flaws. When it comes to revealing the rough, yet unfinished item. Wax lyrical about the technical difficulties fitting the brief, focus on the glaring faults, and point out that you can give them 99% of what they want. When they veiw the finished work, they're over the moon you resolved the eyesores. Unethical I know, but some people are impossible to work with and flex their positions of power, so they can experience their hold on you. They still get a good job, most of the people will enjoy it most of the time, job done.
I've seen this tech used by directors too. I worked on a very early cut of sixth sense and it was clear to me that Shyalaman had made shots purposely long so that the studio would cut it back to what he had always intended!
@@stuartchapman5171 I knew an advertising copywriter back in the old days who would cleverly put a couple of howlers into their script knowing a "suit" would spot them and think they'd contributed when they suggested taking them out leaving the rest beautifully intact as intended. Never failed.
@brendanwalsh108 it seems this sort of practice is more wide-spread than I'd thought. A genius take on the concept. Let the execs think they can let their "genius" shine, when working with you. They'll be keen to come back for dinning out tales, lol.
Thanks for this stream of thoughts and experiences. It's one of the main reasons I like your content. My strategy is at first to let go of my ego when getting some critical feedback. Then the feeling of a change to improve, in several ways, opens up beautifully, finally serving the project's goal. That's what it's about I think.
Watching this, there's another aspect to this that can also be related to ADHD. Particularly when you only get diagnosed later in life, there can be an exceptional amount of people pleasing. We've ended up letting people down on so many occasions that notes end up feeling like passing judgement on US as a person. Take a look at something called Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria. It's one of the aspects of ADHD and it can wreak all sorts of havoc when it comes to performance or how we think we're seen in the world.
I'm working with this in a tiny way at the moment. I agreed to provide some new music for a little, local Christmas story evening. Prepared some music and fortunately those putting it on loved it but... At a meeting the other day we went through everything and they wanted it chopped up and bits lengthened. I just kept in mind what Don Black once said in a TV documentary after a production meeting; "You can't afford to get too precious about these things". It's all a good learning experience even if it is as small as this project. Oh, and the people putting on the production have had experience of working with Bill Kenwright so they know what it's like to be on the end of that.
Yes, I would always suggest to your note giver to tell them what is wrong with the music's impact, not what needs to be fixed. Its not sound, it's music and those types of precriptive notes rarely get better results. It just makes it lumpy and jarring. I call it being frame fucked.
I believe it is especially hard when working on many things at the same time. Switching gears and projects is far more stressful and exhausting than most people realize. I believe I am at my best when I can focus on one project, and actually meet with my customer. (This can be via Zoom too.) When they give me feedback in person, that is often more effective and can even be fun. And I can ask questions. I always think: they hire me for my experience and prior work … but my job is to channel their vision, and to give them options out of which they can then mold their vision (with my help). Part of my job is to help them formulate that vision, and to help them extract that from their mind. That also works best by having a conversation. We both can then make the notes for me during that conversation. And the emotional processing also happens during that conversation. Not sure if this helps. But I do hope it does.
I have learned through the years to not let it bother me. Maybe it's because I did so much studio work when I was younger. I look that I am serving the project and not myself. Pay or no pay, I have found btw when I do a live review via Evercast or Louper, it is way less stressful than getting 6+pages of notes on things and I usually have to read the notes over a few hours later. It's so easy to misinterpret the notes. A lot of too many chef's in the kitchen sometimes. I am always fine with it, because I know my skills can handle it and just listen and hear them and not have too many expectations, and don't hold on too tight-:). Live reviews take way less time 10hrs into maybe 2hrs on my last film with less back a fourth.
Very timely advice, as I have just finished a project in which several people provided notes at various times, requiring multiple revisions. Some of the notes were spot on, some of them seemingly insignificant or irrelevant. The problem was the amount of extra time required to accommodate all the comments, the number of revisions (rewrite, re-orchestrate, remix, re-export) needed for each revision. Which leads me to my question: How do you limit or control the number of revisions? How to apply a cut-off to the submission of notes? Is it something contracted at the start or simply an informal agreement? And even if contracted at the start, how do you respond to someone saying, "I know you have already mastered the final version, but could you possibly change that flute line at the end?" Do you simply say "no" or do you swallow your pride and get over your annoyance and spend the next half-hour or hour or however long it takes to make what seems like a minor change but in fact requires rewriting,, remixing, re-exporting, remastering, etc. Any thoughts or suggestions? Thanks.
Haaahahaha! Been wrestling with all of this these past few weeks. Like another commenter said: this one's getting saved to rewatch every time the feedback arrives. Thanks, Dr Henson! x
I take the attitude that what I do is of limited appeal. Some will get it, and many won't. The worst feedback was a result of being asked to do a live soundscape during a visual art exhibition. I'm used to performing for folk who specifically come to listen to experimental ambient soundscapes. I hadn't, up to this point, performed to "passing trade". I had a lot of disparaging comments to gracefully ignore and reject repeated requests for folk to touch or play with my tape loop bedding tracks. On top of that I was using a small guitar amp as a PA for the small venue which wasnt loud enough to amplify the dynamic range. More complaints. But I was given the breif, and quite rightly so, "you're background sound, turned low, as your a foil, not the main event". These sort of comments aren't easy after the fact. They're all the more difficult to deal with whilst you're actually immersed in the creative process.
@TheCrowHillCo it happens, the creative arts are cut throat. There's a lot of folk wanting a small amount of work. You're only as good as the last job, until you've got a really solid portfolio. The wheat gets separated from the chaff.
A few important things to remember; While the stress put on a director is no doubt monumental, they've been living and breathing their project for months or years, and likely have a firm grasp on how well their project is or isn't going. As a composer, we're brought on to these projects usually at the very end of the long and arduous process, often with very little to go on as to what the director is actually going to like. Unlike a director, we often work in solitude with very little feedback or time to reflect on whether or not what we've made fits, or is even any good as a piece of music. This doesn't make our job more or less hard, it's just a completely different kind of stress when the first ounce of feedback we get is a director saying, 'not really what I was looking for...'
Some great perspectives and a good description of the ways we can self harm as creatives. The 'lizard' brain is a term used to refer to our threat system, it's most closely connected to our emotional centres and was one of the earliest parts of our brains to develop - it's definitely a real thing but it's not very much to do with actual lizards! Some very good advice, although I need to reconsider tonight's dinner of Asparagus and Tabasco bake now...
The “asparagus” brain you describe is probably the limbic system, which is heavily involved both in fast emotional reactions as well as thoughtful emotional processing. (The “lizard brain” is somewhat outdated and would describe parts of the brain like the basal ganglia that provide a range of basic functions, including some emotions.) The amygdala is part of the limbic system, processing fear and pleasure responses, “gut reactions”, if you will, amongst other things. And the hippocampus is part of it too, involved in memory formation. Then the hypothalamus, which has various functions, including regulating some basic emotions. There is more, but I think that is enough for now.
The amygdala. That is the name you are looking for. Two almond shapes in the brain. Part of the limbic system. Perform a primary role in emotional responses, including fear, anxiety, and aggression.
Trusting and respecting your director is the starting point for me and vice versa. Then if you get notes, you know there is a good reason for it. If you can’t acknowledge their point of view it won’t end well. Im there to enhance the emotional power of the film, not write my own personal symphony. Really understanding what the director wants to achieve is crucial and it’s not always apparent looking at the film. Don’t just watch the film, listen to your director and question them. I’ve misinterpreted a sequence because I didn’t listen to the director or question enough in the past. I say…. ‘Really, but….. that doesn’t come out of the scene….. Ah, oh yes. I see what you’re getting at now’.. just ask and be really specific in a non music theory way!! Delve in, dive in to the mind of your director (there’ll be a few rotting vegetables and a rusty wheel in there, but lots of good direction too!).
There should never be a wasted cue. For what doesn’t quite fit for one project should work for another. I try to save any rejected cues and sort them into albums. Once you have a full album of work pitch it to production libraries to potentially make use of them elsewhere.
Let’s face it , we’ll never get used to the gut wrench of opening the notes & feedback emails. Rest assured though, Usually you’ll find the tweaks & fixes are much simpler than how the notes are worded.
Thanks! Dealing with negative feedback from somebody who actually paid you is one thing. It s---ks, but in the end it's my job. I think negative feedback from somebody who is not your customer, but a consumer, of your (creative) work is much harder. A good example is YT: How many content creators loose their mind, because they are in continuous critique of their work? Why? It is like standing in front of a street musican and shouting, why I dislike his stuff - and tell everybody else, that this musican s---ks. Anyway: it is helpful to see, that these challenges are present at any level of someones artist's career... REMARK: Please consider allowing SuperThanks. I know it's a Companies channel, but we could define Superthanks as "money for the pub" adressed to "the old dude" 🙂
It’s never easy being told that the beautiful musical baby you have just given birth to looks like Churchill after a night on the ale but as you say Christian, you just need to remain positive and take on board what you are being told - easier said than done sometimes though! 😁
Yes, if we love our music it is always difficult having it criticised. When you return back to a project a year or two later all you give a shit about is the story.
I actually had one of the most frustrating experiences of my career two weeks ago working on a short that was already way underpaid. I offered my fee and they grunted and turned so I offered a discount. They offered half of my discounted price. I agreed because I loved the story and the team working on the film was very talented and the image and editing was pretty good. I met with the director after the deposit was paid and was told in puke emojis how much he hated the piano and it was something to be avoided like the plague. He proceeded to send me Bollywood clips of films with busy percussion and told me he wanted a Sufi theme. I spent a few days creating and mixing only to be told it wasn’t right. I tried again and he said it wasn’t right. I asked for more references and he gave me more cheesy 80s style Bollywood music. We eventually established that this was not going to work at all with the picture. He then wanted some cinematic Bollywood style and sent me a clip of a film that was most clearly a banjo bluegrass style band. I refused. Then he asked me to make something up. I did. It failed. I was borderline ready to quit when he suggested Call Me by Your Name. “This is absolutely perfect and exactly what I want!” Guess what… the guy nature score except for a David Bowie song was all piano. Longer story short, we ended up doing a synth indie pop style with cellos and piano. He was very happy in the end. 😂😂😂 He never filled out the cue sheet either.
Treat it like you‘d treat your partner in an ideal relationship - carefully listen, clearly communicate, while showing respect and empathy. It‘s mostly the absence of any of it, that causes ambiguity, which translates into trouble eventually.
Lizard brain - There isn't one, we are decended from primates who didn't decend from lizards. Bad comments - Step away and get out of the box, try and see their perspective, unless they are deliberately trying to offend in which case just delete the comment and block them - Do NOT feed the trolls! BTW a piece of string is about 18" long - Any more and it would be a ball of string, any less and you'd throw it away. See - logic, perspective, these will save you.
Notes always seem way worse the first read time for some reason, possibly due to projection from a defensive feeling. On the second read, they seem more relatable.
The problem with music is that it's - music - not words - not visual - so very difficult to describe/brief/give notes on - in words! The worst note I ever got was just one word "goodbye" LOL
Oh this video is great, but... needs to be a little more "fluidic", if you like, a deeper "velvet" ;) The dog adds a nice touch, too, but can we go a bit more "Springer?" Yes, all needs to be more Strawberry/Springer.
I lost the pleasure with forums because many unprepared babies give feedback as they were mature professionals. While experienced professionals cant say one word without sounding “negative “. Of course everything will be negative when one thinks that a life based on the law of less effort will lead to something in music. But i also dont like to give feedback when it is Not asked for, and in public. This is childish. All the feedbacks i gave were on private, and generated something productive, while in public I just give a feedback if you really ask for or if it is an exceptional case of bad overrated music or great underrated music
The hardest thing a composer can do is write a piece of music that someone else has in their head so do they ever really like what you have written for them?
Think of the music as totally another thing in your mind. Like it's painting a house and you missed a couple of spots. HAH. Again avoid the outcomes in your own mind. We all improve by keep it going. A lot of this is misinterpreted communication with directors and producers. I ask them what they want the audience to FEEL! Rather than the musical terms. They don't understand a lot of musical terms.
Any form of human feedback is vastly superior to just being quietly replaced by an AI generative process... Which is what will happen to 95% of all media composers in the next decade.
Oooh! This one is going to my starred folder! This is such an important topic and thanks a lot Christian for talking about it. I'll come back to it if I freak out at some point! Notes can be tricky, yeah. I think I went through everything you mentioned 😆 Tabasco through the roof! But eventually, I also found that sleeping on it helps. Meditation, affirmations and some usual fun, like running around the flat with my cat. It's that emotional connection to the work that gets lighted up once the notes arrive, and just giving it a bit of time helps in grounding. Sometimes literally walking barefoot on the rocks by the beach, or on the soil, does the trick. Connection with the nature always brings the balance. And then, the good communication is the best solution as you said.
Great stuff, as always 👌
The most important thing you have to remember when delivering something to someone who has hired you to make it is this. The thing (music, a drawing, software, a new shelf, whatever) does not belong to you. The person who hired you specified it (however well or badly) and paid for it. It’s theirs, and they have a right to receive what they paid for.
As artists, we put ourselves into our work, so criticism of the work feels like criticism of our selves. Especially if it’s very negative. But the art we produce for hire is NOT ours. It belongs to the hiring entity, and when they criticize the work, they are just saying that it doesn’t meet their needs. As an artist, we can say “So what?” to that. As an employee, we should say “OK, I’ll fix it.”
Thank you once again for a thought-provoking video! 👏👏👏
If there's ever an issue or a problem, own it, present it, but ALWAYS try an have a solution with it.
When I deliver, I try to remember the mandala (in fact, I used to wear one on a necklace): Monks will spend weeks, painstakingly crafting a mandala and, when it's finished, they wipe it all away. This is a reminder to care deeply about the journey and craft but that, when it's finished, it no longer belongs to us.
AMAZING FACTOID THANKS.
Also have you seen how much mandalas look like the patterns different notes make when vibrating water? www.saltspring.band/2018/11/08/photography-of-music-notes-in-a-bowl-of-water/
@@TheCrowHillCo I hadn't thought about it but it's true! Beautiful.
That’s an excellent way of thinking, I’m definitely using that🎉
Brilliant. I could not agree more. The mandala is a wonderful metaphor for what we do as creators. The journey and craft are everything, but everything we craft is also ephemeral.
Though i revere Thelonious, I hate his saying on "dancing about architecture". I get his point on "talking about music" but as a former architect I can tell that dancing is certainly not the worst thing one could do about architeture... Now as a former architect i can confirm that in applied arts (as is music for movies or games) you have to, by essence, satisfy the desire of sombody else... (most of the time several persons) You have to get to the point of being able to cope with notes, and, even, take them as some kind of fuel for moving on toward a better version of your work. But, dear Christian, as always, you make a very clear and good point about your subject, i am so happy to hear and see you regularly again.
Thanks for the talk!! Essential!!!
Nice to see you back and in it.
This advice/observation is not just applicable to the creative music machine...but life in general. Your timing is impeccable.
Why thank you.
Love how frank this take is. Feedback is unavoidable - every person who will ever hear our music will have an opinion of it, and those who pay us have the luxury of mandating that we care about their opinion. Some of my best work has come about because I was willing to totally scratch my work and start again, with new direction, trusting the producer (who was overriding the director..). Also, some of my worst work has come about because of feedback. But it got me paid.
Something I’ve found to be very helpful with feedback… other composers who you can bounce things off. It’s great to have someone who can understand your feelings and give you encouragement but also who can help with solutions to problems set by the feedback (like suggesting different instrumentation, or simplifying something, or just adding some delay/reverb).
Yeah like we do with buddying but for sounds. Music editors can be very helpful in this respect too.
Ahhh - the subject no one talks about but everyone feels. Thanks for this.
Outstanding post, Christian. I recently floated a new piece by my wife and a trusted friend, and they both were quite frank about how bad one of the instruments sounded in the mixed piece. I had worked for days learning about the instrument's (a Bluegrass fiddle VST) articulations, created a custom articulation map, and really worked hard to get this track sounding as authentic as possible. In the end, I had achieved mastery of that particular instrument, but failed to understand that the piece actually required another instrument and not the fiddle. Their feedback was constructive and upon reflection, they were right. Doesn't mean it doesn't hurt, but pull up those socks and use the experience to get better at your craft.
Applicable for any job, not just composition. Sage words.
Thanks this is a great little film full of positivity. Regarding ‘not asking for more money’ at the feedback stage (I believe this was mentioned I may be wrong) .. i think, is not always good general advice. Working as a composer, in a broader sense, can leave you at the mercy of too much feedback and messy organisation from the client. When, as often composers are, up against time and small budgets, I believe that using money negotiations is one of your best tools of coming out of the gig healthy.
One way to soften the emotional impact of any written feedback, and “hear” it better, is to control the “voice” you read it with in your mind.
I regularly got feedback from a very critical person I didn’t like or respect. One time is was so angry with some feedback that I didn’t know what to do and went boxing and actually really damaged my hands, and quickly realised that want helping!
I came back to the notes with a fresh approach and read it in my head, but used my daughter’s voice.
It totally changed the way I received it and was suddenly actually able to identify with some bits of it, as it was now from someone gentle that I loved and respected.
I immediately saw what it was I was doing that they didn’t like, changed it, sent it back, and hey presto, they loved it and we have a really solid working relationship now.
For people with high standards, we tend to be our own worst critic and the internal critical voice is the harshest.
Change that voice and helps you to be more open to hearing what is probably intended as supportive challenge.
Top tier advice, cheers Christian
Love the advice here. When I'm given notes, I do something similar. Read them right away and send a friendly acknowledgement.. Take the dogs out for a walk... Go out for a run. Something that allows me to digest everything and mentally prepare for the next steps. Its all about the mindset...
I've never had notes that weren't for a good reason, although sometimes at the time of reading it doesn't always feel that way! I think written critique always reads worse in an email than it might be picking up the phone and talking it through. Considering how much money and time is invested in these projects its so important not to let ego get in the way, and remember that the 'work' is ultimately a collaboration, not a showcase of musical chops... Save that for an album release!
Life is better again since you're back on the block with these candid and helpful videos for the rest of us! I missed you and these and I couldn't be happier that you're back in stride, new team, new outfit name, same mission: Showing us ways of surviving this sharkpit and ... maybe, just maybe getting to the point where it gets a tad bit better than mere survival.
So great to have you back! (... and little lizard brain's job is to secrete a teaspoonful of feelgood juices....😅)
To be totally honest I don't think I could of put this over better. Well done for this video, it hits the mark, spot on. Cheers
Glad I found this channel
So am I!
Good general rule: make your boss' life easier. After the job, they will remember you, the person, more than the score you lovingly crafted.
I worked with someone whilst set building who used a technique to please designers who wanted the impossible. Build in several easy fix, yet shocking flaws. When it comes to revealing the rough, yet unfinished item. Wax lyrical about the technical difficulties fitting the brief, focus on the glaring faults, and point out that you can give them 99% of what they want. When they veiw the finished work, they're over the moon you resolved the eyesores.
Unethical I know, but some people are impossible to work with and flex their positions of power, so they can experience their hold on you. They still get a good job, most of the people will enjoy it most of the time, job done.
I've seen this tech used by directors too. I worked on a very early cut of sixth sense and it was clear to me that Shyalaman had made shots purposely long so that the studio would cut it back to what he had always intended!
@@stuartchapman5171 I knew an advertising copywriter back in the old days who would cleverly put a couple of howlers into their script knowing a "suit" would spot them and think they'd contributed when they suggested taking them out leaving the rest beautifully intact as intended. Never failed.
@brendanwalsh108 it seems this sort of practice is more wide-spread than I'd thought. A genius take on the concept. Let the execs think they can let their "genius" shine, when working with you.
They'll be keen to come back for dinning out tales, lol.
Thanks for this stream of thoughts and experiences. It's one of the main reasons I like your content. My strategy is at first to let go of my ego when getting some critical feedback. Then the feeling of a change to improve, in several ways, opens up beautifully, finally serving the project's goal. That's what it's about I think.
I think its not entirely possible to switch off your ego, but its good to tell it to shut up when its welling up inside you.
@@TheCrowHillCo indeed letting go of leading too much
"All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time” ― J. S. Bach
Watching this, there's another aspect to this that can also be related to ADHD. Particularly when you only get diagnosed later in life, there can be an exceptional amount of people pleasing. We've ended up letting people down on so many occasions that notes end up feeling like passing judgement on US as a person. Take a look at something called Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria. It's one of the aspects of ADHD and it can wreak all sorts of havoc when it comes to performance or how we think we're seen in the world.
I'm working with this in a tiny way at the moment. I agreed to provide some new music for a little, local Christmas story evening. Prepared some music and fortunately those putting it on loved it but... At a meeting the other day we went through everything and they wanted it chopped up and bits lengthened. I just kept in mind what Don Black once said in a TV documentary after a production meeting; "You can't afford to get too precious about these things". It's all a good learning experience even if it is as small as this project. Oh, and the people putting on the production have had experience of working with Bill Kenwright so they know what it's like to be on the end of that.
Yes, I would always suggest to your note giver to tell them what is wrong with the music's impact, not what needs to be fixed. Its not sound, it's music and those types of precriptive notes rarely get better results. It just makes it lumpy and jarring. I call it being frame fucked.
I believe it is especially hard when working on many things at the same time. Switching gears and projects is far more stressful and exhausting than most people realize. I believe I am at my best when I can focus on one project, and actually meet with my customer. (This can be via Zoom too.) When they give me feedback in person, that is often more effective and can even be fun. And I can ask questions. I always think: they hire me for my experience and prior work … but my job is to channel their vision, and to give them options out of which they can then mold their vision (with my help). Part of my job is to help them formulate that vision, and to help them extract that from their mind. That also works best by having a conversation. We both can then make the notes for me during that conversation. And the emotional processing also happens during that conversation.
Not sure if this helps. But I do hope it does.
I love your work and your honesty
I have learned through the years to not let it bother me. Maybe it's because I did so much studio work when I was younger. I look that I am serving the project and not myself. Pay or no pay, I have found btw when I do a live review via Evercast or Louper, it is way less stressful than getting 6+pages of notes on things and I usually have to read the notes over a few hours later. It's so easy to misinterpret the notes. A lot of too many chef's in the kitchen sometimes. I am always fine with it, because I know my skills can handle it and just listen and hear them and not have too many expectations, and don't hold on too tight-:). Live reviews take way less time 10hrs into maybe 2hrs on my last film with less back a fourth.
So well said, please continue with these great videos and all of your content ❤
Very timely advice, as I have just finished a project in which several people provided notes at various times, requiring multiple revisions. Some of the notes were spot on, some of them seemingly insignificant or irrelevant. The problem was the amount of extra time required to accommodate all the comments, the number of revisions (rewrite, re-orchestrate, remix, re-export) needed for each revision. Which leads me to my question: How do you limit or control the number of revisions? How to apply a cut-off to the submission of notes? Is it something contracted at the start or simply an informal agreement? And even if contracted at the start, how do you respond to someone saying, "I know you have already mastered the final version, but could you possibly change that flute line at the end?" Do you simply say "no" or do you swallow your pride and get over your annoyance and spend the next half-hour or hour or however long it takes to make what seems like a minor change but in fact requires rewriting,, remixing, re-exporting, remastering, etc. Any thoughts or suggestions? Thanks.
Thank you Christian, really enjoyed this one! Would love more videos like this 🙏
This is the consequence of working in a subjective field. Balance the “highs” of creativity with the “lows” of irrational judgement.
Haaahahaha! Been wrestling with all of this these past few weeks. Like another commenter said: this one's getting saved to rewatch every time the feedback arrives. Thanks, Dr Henson! x
I take the attitude that what I do is of limited appeal. Some will get it, and many won't.
The worst feedback was a result of being asked to do a live soundscape during a visual art
exhibition.
I'm used to performing for folk who specifically come to listen to experimental ambient soundscapes. I hadn't, up to this point, performed to "passing trade".
I had a lot of disparaging comments to gracefully ignore and reject repeated requests for folk to touch or play with my tape loop bedding tracks.
On top of that I was using a small guitar amp as a PA for the small venue which wasnt loud enough to amplify the dynamic range.
More complaints. But I was given the breif, and quite rightly so, "you're background sound, turned low, as your a foil, not the main event".
These sort of comments aren't easy after the fact. They're all the more difficult to deal with whilst you're actually immersed in the creative process.
Yes, I think we all have to work from a place of mutual respect. The shitty directors I have worked with seem to have fallen by the wayside.
@TheCrowHillCo it happens, the creative arts are cut throat. There's a lot of folk wanting a small amount of work. You're only as good as the last job, until you've got a really solid portfolio.
The wheat gets separated from the chaff.
A few important things to remember; While the stress put on a director is no doubt monumental, they've been living and breathing their project for months or years, and likely have a firm grasp on how well their project is or isn't going. As a composer, we're brought on to these projects usually at the very end of the long and arduous process, often with very little to go on as to what the director is actually going to like. Unlike a director, we often work in solitude with very little feedback or time to reflect on whether or not what we've made fits, or is even any good as a piece of music. This doesn't make our job more or less hard, it's just a completely different kind of stress when the first ounce of feedback we get is a director saying, 'not really what I was looking for...'
Put simply; drop the ego. It always baffles me how many people are unable to do this
Great advice as always Christian. Also a timely reminder about yellow snow. You could smell it if you really want to... but don't taste it! :)
Some great perspectives and a good description of the ways we can self harm as creatives. The 'lizard' brain is a term used to refer to our threat system, it's most closely connected to our emotional centres and was one of the earliest parts of our brains to develop - it's definitely a real thing but it's not very much to do with actual lizards! Some very good advice, although I need to reconsider tonight's dinner of Asparagus and Tabasco bake now...
The “asparagus” brain you describe is probably the limbic system, which is heavily involved both in fast emotional reactions as well as thoughtful emotional processing. (The “lizard brain” is somewhat outdated and would describe parts of the brain like the basal ganglia that provide a range of basic functions, including some emotions.) The amygdala is part of the limbic system, processing fear and pleasure responses, “gut reactions”, if you will, amongst other things. And the hippocampus is part of it too, involved in memory formation. Then the hypothalamus, which has various functions, including regulating some basic emotions. There is more, but I think that is enough for now.
The amygdala. That is the name you are looking for. Two almond shapes in the brain. Part of the limbic system. Perform a primary role in emotional responses, including fear, anxiety, and aggression.
THANK YOU!!!!😁
Thank you for another great video! So good to have Christian back! And although amygdala is the right term, I also quite like the asparagus analogy:)
For Princess Amidala because she dealt with emotional responses, fear, anxiety, and aggression from Darth Vader? No?
Trusting and respecting your director is the starting point for me and vice versa. Then if you get notes, you know there is a good reason for it. If you can’t acknowledge their point of view it won’t end well. Im there to enhance the emotional power of the film, not write my own personal symphony. Really understanding what the director wants to achieve is crucial and it’s not always apparent looking at the film. Don’t just watch the film, listen to your director and question them. I’ve misinterpreted a sequence because I didn’t listen to the director or question enough in the past. I say…. ‘Really, but….. that doesn’t come out of the scene….. Ah, oh yes. I see what you’re getting at now’.. just ask and be really specific in a non music theory way!! Delve in, dive in to the mind of your director (there’ll be a few rotting vegetables and a rusty wheel in there, but lots of good direction too!).
There should never be a wasted cue. For what doesn’t quite fit for one project should work for another. I try to save any rejected cues and sort them into albums. Once you have a full album of work pitch it to production libraries to potentially make use of them elsewhere.
Brilliant 😊
Let’s face it , we’ll never get used to the gut wrench of opening the notes & feedback emails. Rest assured though, Usually you’ll find the tweaks & fixes are much simpler than how the notes are worded.
Thanks! Dealing with negative feedback from somebody who actually paid you is one thing. It s---ks, but in the end it's my job.
I think negative feedback from somebody who is not your customer, but a consumer, of your (creative) work is much harder. A good example is YT: How many content creators loose their mind, because they are in continuous critique of their work? Why? It is like standing in front of a street musican and shouting, why I dislike his stuff - and tell everybody else, that this musican s---ks.
Anyway: it is helpful to see, that these challenges are present at any level of someones artist's career...
REMARK: Please consider allowing SuperThanks. I know it's a Companies channel, but we could define Superthanks as "money for the pub" adressed to "the old dude" 🙂
It’s never easy being told that the beautiful musical baby you have just given birth to looks like Churchill after a night on the ale but as you say Christian, you just need to remain positive and take on board what you are being told - easier said than done sometimes though! 😁
Yes, if we love our music it is always difficult having it criticised. When you return back to a project a year or two later all you give a shit about is the story.
I actually had one of the most frustrating experiences of my career two weeks ago working on a short that was already way underpaid. I offered my fee and they grunted and turned so I offered a discount. They offered half of my discounted price. I agreed because I loved the story and the team working on the film was very talented and the image and editing was pretty good.
I met with the director after the deposit was paid and was told in puke emojis how much he hated the piano and it was something to be avoided like the plague. He proceeded to send me Bollywood clips of films with busy percussion and told me he wanted a Sufi theme.
I spent a few days creating and mixing only to be told it wasn’t right.
I tried again and he said it wasn’t right.
I asked for more references and he gave me more cheesy 80s style Bollywood music.
We eventually established that this was not going to work at all with the picture.
He then wanted some cinematic Bollywood style and sent me a clip of a film that was most clearly a banjo bluegrass style band. I refused.
Then he asked me to make something up. I did. It failed.
I was borderline ready to quit when he suggested Call Me by Your Name. “This is absolutely perfect and exactly what I want!”
Guess what… the guy nature score except for a David Bowie song was all piano.
Longer story short, we ended up doing a synth indie pop style with cellos and piano. He was very happy in the end. 😂😂😂
He never filled out the cue sheet either.
Treat it like you‘d treat your partner in an ideal relationship - carefully listen, clearly communicate, while showing respect and empathy. It‘s mostly the absence of any of it, that causes ambiguity, which translates into trouble eventually.
I once heard Thomas Newman say he never had a cue get worse after feedback
Any more details about which day the Winter Solstice walk will be on? Will it be on 22nd December 2023?
Lizard brain - There isn't one, we are decended from primates who didn't decend from lizards.
Bad comments - Step away and get out of the box, try and see their perspective, unless they are deliberately trying to offend in which case just delete the comment and block them - Do NOT feed the trolls!
BTW a piece of string is about 18" long - Any more and it would be a ball of string, any less and you'd throw it away. See - logic, perspective, these will save you.
Just figure the notes into the budget. Whatever you think you want to make on a job - double it.
Dear Christian - profound and important words from an evolved human here. Thank you. And I couldn't agree more x
balm for my feedback tortured soul, ;)
Notes always seem way worse the first read time for some reason, possibly due to projection from a defensive feeling. On the second read, they seem more relatable.
The problem with music is that it's - music - not words - not visual - so very difficult to describe/brief/give notes on - in words! The worst note I ever got was just one word "goodbye" LOL
I miss the asparagus title haha
Oh this video is great, but... needs to be a little more "fluidic", if you like, a deeper "velvet" ;) The dog adds a nice touch, too, but can we go a bit more "Springer?" Yes, all needs to be more Strawberry/Springer.
If they'd impressed upon me what so much feedback would do, I'd have 💯 picked a different path.
I lost the pleasure with forums because many unprepared babies give feedback as they were mature professionals. While experienced professionals cant say one word without sounding “negative “. Of course everything will be negative when one thinks that a life based on the law of less effort will lead to something in music. But i also dont like to give feedback when it is Not asked for, and in public. This is childish. All the feedbacks i gave were on private, and generated something productive, while in public I just give a feedback if you really ask for or if it is an exceptional case of bad overrated music or great underrated music
The hardest thing a composer can do is write a piece of music that someone else has in their head so do they ever really like what you have written for them?
Think of the music as totally another thing in your mind. Like it's painting a house and you missed a couple of spots. HAH. Again avoid the outcomes in your own mind. We all improve by keep it going. A lot of this is misinterpreted communication with directors and producers. I ask them what they want the audience to FEEL! Rather than the musical terms. They don't understand a lot of musical terms.
Any form of human feedback is vastly superior to just being quietly replaced by an AI generative process... Which is what will happen to 95% of all media composers in the next decade.
By the Gods. This was difficult to listen to. The cats are hiding.
Sing it, brother......
I'll trade you a sub if you tell me the make of your glasses ;-) They look cool !
Hello ^^
Can't cope and call it cancel culture instead of accountability haha