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After all the major problems have been fixed, mage spell arts and particles need to be visually updated too. Mages are still stuck with 144p Barriers and portals when so many HD variations have been floating around since Legion
Fire and arcane barrier looks good, frost definitely need a revamp though. Honestly, I would prefer them to put more arcane or Drac'thyr looking effect on casting animation and blink
Do you really trust blizzard to remake spell animations that won't 100% ruin the initial intent of the spell. It would look so ugly and clunky with effects nobody would ask for and shipped without reading any community feedback.
They removed the decision from the playerbase about the Water Elemental. Rather than deciding to balance, or leave it be. This is the worst of both worlds. People who loved it's utilities now can only sparingly use it on a 2min CD tied with Mages most powerful spell. And people hated using it are now forced to play with it during the critical timer of Icy Viens. Blizzard removing agency and disregarding the frost mage playerbase. Damn.
As a frost mage main since vanilla, I've enjoyed the relative simplicity of the spec lately. I don't have a ton of time to devote to the game and learning a complex rotation isn't all that appealing to me. I'm eager to see how this feels, though
@@siriusblack7714 I just like the Frost mage class fantasy. It's still more complex than a lot of other classes despite being simpler than the other mage specs.
@@very_greythat’s how I felt. Frost on the surface was relatively simple. Then you realize there’s a lot more conditionals and complexity that get added in. Really excited for these changes.
I'm glad they made changes. I leveling Mage for DF, but put it down after a little bit because Arcane's rotation requires a PhD, to get through and alternate between burn and conserve phases. I just did not want to put the work in to learn that. Fire is what I enjoy the most,and Fire has been ass since Launch. I'm looking to give Mage another chance when this goes live.
@@PinHeadSupliciumwtf Pre=pull Evocation-Rune-Radiant Spark-Arcane Blast-Arcane Blast-Arcane Blast-Arcane Surge-NetherTempest- Barrage-Magi-Shirting Power [Inside Magi] Missle-(Nether Precision) Arcane Blastx2-Missile-Arcane Blastx2-Missile. [Mini Burn] Rune-Radiant Spark-AB-AB-AB-Nether Tempest-Barrage-Magi (opener) Evocate-Arcane Orb-Rune-Radiant Spark-Ab-AB-AB-Arcane Surge-Nether Tempest-Barrage-Magi-Shifting Power Meanwhile my main is Blade of justice into Judgement, Wings into Execution Sentence into hammer of Wrath, TV, wake of ashes, TV, Divine toll into priority. To me they are lightyears apart. Now if I put in the time yes I know i could learn it, but I just was not that motivated to do it. But you are correct Arcane is really rigid, but at the same time you could take some solace in that. Knowing what should come next. With ret's priority system after the opener it can get a lil convoluted. Until Execution Sentence comes back up.
What would like to see for Arcane Misiles rather than a straight damage buff, is for the damage to ramp up over their duration, so you have a reason not to cut it short. Also it would be nice if they slowed the targets movement speed whilst channeling, but only when the target was moving towards the mage.
Glacial Spike hasn't just "Felt bad," it was a literal DPS loss to even talent into. Legion-GS is my favorite spell in the game. Frostbolt could crit, which meant beefier Icicles, which meant a bigger GS, which could also crit, so it double dipped. And haste meant you were doing it all more often. And mastery meant higher FB>Icicle returns. But then they flatlined FB>Icicle conversion so it's always a set amount and then ramped up Icicle generation (feels like everything generates an Icicle these days) so the GS casts are now too common and hit like a wet noodle. GS was everything I'd wanted Chaos Bolt to be but more. I want ONE class with a slow, hits-like-a-dump-truck ability that takes awhile to charge up then absolutely chunks boss health. That was GS. If I got lucky with crits I could watch 15% of a boss's health disappear. And if I didn't get lucky I was still pumping. I miss that. No class like that currently exists anymore.
Kinda how i wish there was a build for hunter that dives into the idea of being a true sniper. Giant damage hits that you have to "aim" for a sec or if a bow pull super hard on the string to let a annihilating projectile that would be called "headshot"
You should definitely give enhancement a try. The current dragonflight version of enhancement is in my opinion one of the most well designed specs the game has ever had
For the love of God, make ice block immune to dispel and shattering throw. not everything is pve. we want pvp changes too ! but i do love the fact that FINALLY, us fire mages have our flame strike contributing to hot streak. major win for Rbgs !
Mage has always been my favorite type of class fantasy, but I've never really enjoyed the play style. Recently been warming up to it for whatever reason. Glad to see the specs getting even more love. Hyped to try them out with the new changes
My problem with Mage has always been that the player mages are the least cool mages in the Warcraft universe. There's a lot of things, spells, playstyles, but so little of it matches what other mages actually do. This is always gonna be a subjective thing, but Arcane's always been a good example for me. Somehow it has been chained down by its mana bar identity for so many years now, when you have a lot of cool things you could do with the spec like involve some of the Torghast powers, teleporting, more illusions, more polymorph-centric spells etc. Like, it works, but is it really just me that feel like it's so uninteresting from a fantasy standpoint, compared to what you actually do? I think only Frost is approaching it.
Agreed. The Arcane mage is thematically supposed to be a master of space and time but hasn't felt that way in practice. Torghast had some abilities that approached that (i.e.blinking=more arcane simulacrums) They just didn't bother to make fun abilities streamline for w/e reason. Really wish Acane explosion wasn't a melee ranged spell. Why not target a mob and let it be spam cast? Or if that's too op perhaps have it function as a dot like Nether Tempest? Or here's a crazy one --Arcane missles as an AoE. That would look and feel sick to me.
I don't like that they remove the water elemental as a permanent pet. It was the whole reason I created a goblin mage. Silly, but I liked me being smaller than my pet...I'm sad.
mage YES leveling NOW been wanting to make ults for awhile so been grinding some out for extra dailies and to try other classes with the xp buff it makes now a perfect time to do so! Thanks for the content hope all is well with everyone!
Barely fixing the class with targeted fixes when other classes got cool talents and talent revamps feels like neglect. Mages had a terrible new talent tree setup, it was mostly porting SL into talent form and our feedback was ignored so much on the forums it was ridiculous. Other classes got cool new stuff. I really want a dev that cares and it feels beyond insane with how much mages feature in WoW lore to have so much neglect. It's bad for blizz too because mage archetypes are wildly popular, D4 shows that. They only shoot themselves in the foot having a lackluster class in that archetype because it equals fewer subs. When i heard they were finally fixing frost mastery mechanics, I was initially overjoyed, then pissed when I found out they were deleting water elemental. I'm not pro PVPer, but I've just recently started experimenting with it and the ranged snare is dope in BGs. So even today, I would argue it's not entirely useless. Warlocks got permanent pets in WoW after only having temporary summons in the RTS. I was overjoyed when I came back to legion and it was permanent, and now I'm sad again. Them refusing to properly balance it or give it synergies with other talents to make it competitive with lonely winter is not a good excuse to remove permanent water elemental. And, they opted for the least optimal solution. Most mages tend to either really love or really hate it. now everyone gets it NO MATTER WHAT. And no one gets the version they want. It's the laziest class design decision I've seen in WoW so far and I'm not suprised blizzard did this to mages. I've posted about mastery scaling weirdness on the forums for YEARS. I don't want to beg to get something back I already had that was a major part of lore. Screw these devs. I feel like they've just shown absolute contempt for the class while giving us bandaids. It's functional. Finally. after years. It got nothing really cool. Other classes it felt like got cool new tools with their talents, now we finally have a viable class with our flavor being deleted. ffs i want a dev who cares about my lore and wants to give me something cool.
I play Mage since BC and actually liked it all the way through. Since WOTLK i also have a sweet spot for Arcane. It wasn't bad as some people think it was the last expansions, it just got less love than other classes in recent years. But still I very much appreciate that the class i am playing as main for over 15 years is finally being worked on more.
hrm. As a Mage main, the reason Frost is so popular is because it's the only spec with a connected slow ability, thus making it the easiest to Solo with. Without a similar talent for the other specs, frost will maintain it's dominance. We USED to have a slow we could add (we're talking Cata era, old school talent trees) to the main arcane spam ability, but they removed that in MoP with the talent changes. Even with it added back to Arcane Barrage, it's lackluster compared to frost applying it with nearly every ability. Without that, Solo-ability of the Mage tanks. Hence Frost's dominance in all things outside of Dungeons and Raids (which is, y'know, the bulk of the game).
Lol, handicapped much bruh? Name one other class in WoW that has a slow effect built in when being attacked by other players/npc. We all know developers playing mage and rogue.
Have been a mage main since BC and over the last few Xpacs Ive been really considering changing. EVERYTHING else felt more fun, more engaging. Im so grateful to see some changes coming that seem promising cause the mage has just been bland.
Affliction in F Tier. T_T *Start casting Seed of Corruption* *Every mob is dead before the cast goes off* Even if the cast did go off, it needs to explode and then the DoT's need time to tick. Meanwhile every other class was just doing direct AOE damage all along. It's like that meme where someone who goes to college is only starting their careers years after their Friends and getting nothing but debt for it, meanwhile their Friends were all earning money throughout that time.
Now they just need to rework DK and allow unholy the option to wield a staff and while wielding a staff, their skills alter to ranged/necromancer versions with undead minions that are worth-a-dam...
As a Hunter it would be nice to get a rework. When your class is a straight damage class with no utility but you are also sitting in the bottom tier of DPS something has gone wrong. I'm glad other specs are getting some much needed changes and love but at the same time it's hard not to be a little irked.
As a person who mains - and loves - her hunter, I wholeheartedly agree. I play BM mostly and sure, depending on pets for DPS is great, but there's just so many issues right now, including - and if this is fixable someone fill me in cause I can't figure out a thing - pets randomly going off to mobs you don't want to have pulled, and attacking. IMO we also need more stable space (for collectors like me, but also I think for selection for different content; two of my five slots can be for Mythic dungeons alone). I don't play MM that much though I do like the idea behind it, sort of. And survival... I haven't touched at all. I'm not even sure what I'd suggest for that spec and while I do like the idea of melee for hunter, survival doesn't make me think of something like that.
I'll probably give it a shot again. I started mage in Legion and played it up through Shadowlands and at that point, I was just kinda over Rune of Power. I like many other mages have a not so good relationship with it.
12:15 Arcane being in melee is not that bad, especially with how arcane orb works and u want to aim it correctly. The biggest problem mage had was RoP and the Kyrian ability. It's annoying that they are a must pick
A lot of cool stuff indeed ! I just wish we had a way to play a frostfire style of gameplay. Always loved that fantasy and we could have some nice interactions between frost and fire but sadly mages have to specialize in only one school of magic
I totally get what you mean. Sadly blizzard proved that this will never happen in slands. Slands was hailed as the big unpruning expansion with lots of class wide abilities, frostbolts for fire, fireblast for frost blabla. And yeah they dif that but with absolutely 0 interactions and extremely niche use in pvp
I hated how complex they made arcane; it used to be a nice relaxing spec and now it just... does not work well unless you really, really are able to pull everything off perfectly.
I like the idea of arcane having a high skillceiling. Arcane always looked for me like the kind of mages that went trough 70 years of training in special mage colleges :p but you should be able to at least do decent damage ofcourse.
@@tftg458 Yes and right now it's like awesome damage or abysmal damage and it just isn't fun especially with all the movement they have been requiring :)
As a mage player for many years, this makes me very happy to hear. I started maining mage at the end of Wrath or beginning of Cata and somewhere just around Legion's launch I finally gave up on it because Rune of Power was so unenjoyable. I would still play PvP through BfA as a mage, but it just wasn't the same. I felt like MoP frost mage was the most enjoyable, so maybe these changes will bring back some of that feeling.
I'd like some form of empowered spell for mages. Yeah, I know, it's *supposed* to be an Evoker-only thing, but what's stopping a fire mage from overcharging a Pyroblast to do massive, explosive AoE damage? What's keeping an ice mage from overloading a Frozen Orb to make it gigantic or freeze enemies or throw ice spikes as it traverses the battlefield? Why can't an arcane mage charge up an Arcane Explosion to have mini-novas that fire rapidly inside a dome that grows as it charges?
I have been waiting years for this Frost mage rework and attention to the spec/class overall. We have been absolutely boned for years and having to keep up with other classes was a pain. So happy to see my spec/class finally get the love it deserves. Frost mage best mage.
The issue with Rune of Power is balance. In order for it to be viable it needs to be insanely strong due to your mentioned drawbacks, so as you said, it became the default choice. Well Blizz then has to balance the ENTIRE mage kit around an ability that gives you +40% damage. Meaning our damage outside of RoP is shit tier at best. Removing it lets mages finally have the freedom to just do damage at will and I for one am pumped.
I loved the idea of fire spec for Mage and the class/spec fantasy, but the massive delta between what it's capable of and what you can manage if you aren't able to pull a 100% perfect rotation every time just wasn't fun to play. I really hope these changes even that out.
Started in 2.1 as Boomkin, in 3.1 went mage main and paladin primary alt all the way until 7.3.5, 8.0 to 9.0 mained Dh keeping mage/paladin as alts less playtime. 9.0 till 10.1.5 Paladin main no real actual alt just leveled toons to cap. I will have mage back as the other toon I actually focus on (tinkered with boomkin at the start of Dragonflight as main alt but just dont have enough fun with alts atm to justify.) As an alt due to it being my 'career' main hoping for more and likely will go back to mage main primary alt paladin for 11.0
I was a mage player from vanilla to BfA when I decided it was no longer something I enjoyed, any spec of it. A huge part of that was rune of power, so I'm thrilled. All of these things make me want to log into my mage right away.
i have played mage since Vanilla and i currently main one. I REALLY hope it is true and we can really choose our talents. Especially for fire. I'd LOVE to be able to just use hyperthermia instead of sunkings blessing. Maybe the elongation of the sun kings buff will already be enough to make it more bearable. These short timers really stress me out and it feels absolutely horrible if you loose the buff cuz of a mechanic
I think I possible, if Aug invoker succeeds, that several specs will be turned into support dps. Arcane could be a potential spec for such a change and i think it could fit thematically with its shields and time manipulation. As for how players would feel about that change, I don't know how that would go. They could just sabotage arcane for a bit then change it to support and people would love it.
Ok I'm not gonna lie, back when Legion came out and they completely remade the Survival Hunter spec, I kind of saw the potential of doing similar for other classes, but mostly for Mage. There are mage warriors in universe so why do we not have one? If any of the specs were to become it, it'd probably be Arcane imo just because they've always seemed to have trouble with Arcane since launch. Plus, it literally has a melee range AoE.
I quit Dragonflight because I rolled a mage and didn't want to go through the hassle of re-gearing when I had incarnate icon and a bunch of other BiS stuff. I was forced into Arcane by my raid team and I hated how much CD management there was. I loved Frost and despised Fire. I think they did super well with the Frost and Fire changes and I will definitely come back to try them. Arcane on the other hand hasn't had the most annoying part removed. I know CD management and DMG windows is the entire complexity of the spec but I just think certain things like Nether Tempest taking up a GCD and Radiant Spark being awkward to use makes the spec so annoying to play. Also Icy flows is just dumb, make Arcane Blast castable while moving during Radiant Spark and Arcane Power windows and the spec would feel so much better.
I've always had a special love for mages. Wows most iconic class, but I want to keep playing my hunter. Blizz makes is hard tho, I can't compete with most classes in m+. If there's a couple of hard aoe hitting classes, I can't ramp up my dmg.
I remember raiding in MoP and having to deal with that version of Rune of Power, hoping it would be gone within the near future. That did not happen, until now, thank god it is being removed.
Mages were very unique back in Vanilla. It's why I've mained Mage since the game started. The problem is that over the years, every other class was given the abilities that made mages unique, except better versions of it with different skins. Nearly every class as an Oh, s**t ability. Nearly every class can slow, nearly every class has CC. Food and water became virtually a non-issue. Portals are all over the world. It made Mage feel less useful. This is a long overdue change. I may actually put a pause on Classic to try it on Retail.
I've always had a frost mage alt as my main alt for every expansion except Legion, haven't been happy playing it for awhile and I hate rune so much. Excited for the rework.
Even though I'm not playing WoW right now, i'm loving what Blizzard is doing with classes. It happend with Paladins where they look alot more fun and less frustating to play and now with mages...
I wish they got fancier with the spells, so much of it is just icicles or fireballs, magic can be so wonderous and aesthetically interesting, half of arcane is just purple flashes
I mean I never really thought of it, but yeah Mages have had a lot of issues, I used to play mages as my mains, I don't really seem to have a main atm in this expansion, none of them really feel much better than any of the others, which isn't necessarily bad because I enjoy playing all of them quite a bit right now.
Finally!!! I have always played Arcane mage (frost as back up spec) as my main alt since TBC. I absolutely loved and hated it over the years. However, the rotation tickled my brain in all the right spots. In DF I officially shelved my mage after hitting 70 because of the lack of mobility, lack of viable aoe, and overall bleh. I opted for spriest and ret paladin alts instead. Now I may have to pick my mage up again.
Not happy about perma water ele being removed frost has always been my favorite because i could be a not dark spell caster with a pet... guess i will just stick to my evoker still.
Im so happy for this, one of the main reasons I've stopped playing outside of doing trading post stuff is the class is just so dull. Rune of Power is just boring but its always our best choice and no matter what we're doing M+, world content, single target or AoE our rotation is the same maybe expect the odd passive talent. Even in Legion which for me is the best the class ever was there was little deviation between builds although incradibly fun to play it gets stale doing the same rotation for 10 years. Arcane as well every now and then it suddenly becomes the best spec in the entire game and its so mind numbing to play.
As a hunter main, I also really hope they put the same level of care into fixing hunters. They were doing so well but they’ve just gradually fallen off over the last few expansions.
I'm very excited for the rework. I've been a mage main for over 15 years, and this expansion I switched to maining DK because mage just wasn't fun anymore. It's been droll, Rune was absolutely atrocious to use, and the gameplay has been the same since Legion. I'm very, very excited to play my mage more.
Have been praying for the removal of rune of power for several expansions now, so glad it's finally going to be gone. Will definitely pick up my mage again.
i am hoping the next rework comes for dk, unholy and blood have some very archaic play styles that were centered around things we either no longer have or can't have despite still being in the game.
I hope arcane gets more love because I am going to main my mage now and I hope they get rid of arcane charge or make it for something else similar to paladins holycharge. For example arcane charge would be used for arcane surge instead. Most annoying part of arcane is building charges to do any damage with your main spell.
When do the mage changes go into affect? Are they in game now or as part of a future patch? The video did not specify if this was on PTR or not, or I missed it.
Yeah I've been wanting to play a caster on wow for a few years aesthetically only mages have ever appealed to me personally ( I love legitimately every spec in the game with the exception of balance druids, and dig them lore wise and encountering them in pvp) but mage just never played fun. I think with the new horde zandalari mount everyone gets next patch I'm going to definitely give mages another proper chance from square one.
So I have been playing Mage since WotLK and have mostly been playing fire since it's literally just the most fun I have... playing a game in general really. But I am currently on a break from the game and when I saw this video it scared the shit out of me (will the class still be as fun when I return?)..... damn these changes look great!! Arcane's rigidness is still quite unappealing but frost looks a lot more fun to play. My beloved fire spec also kept all the cool things and replaced some of the bad things, all around great stuff! There is only one change I would like to see: Hyperthermia should have some sort of announcement when it is comming, like a countdown. When this effect was on the legendary in Shadowlands I had to make some insane Weakaura to remind me when it procced so I could start spamming pyro and that was really unfun/feelsbad if you missed out on a cast. If it would go like '3, 2, 1, get blasting kid!" that would honestly make it the most enjoyable proc to play with.
I've tried to level both a frost mage and an arcane mage. I'd basically given up on both. I'm not a skilled player so I pretty much blamed myself. The kill one thing then eat - repeat until I die thing just wasn't fun. Maybe I'll be brave and try again.
Yes, hunter needs not a fix, or a rework, maybe a redemption, but it need a RESURRECTION. Good to see class changes, as in their gameplay (not just flat numbers, or damage increase) :D.
Ww talent tree is fine and was actually highly praised at the start of dragon flight. They just still have damage scaling issues that for some reason they refuse to address properly
No DH! BUT I get it, both classes are in desperate need of talent reworks! I'm happy for the classes that got it but man being stuck with the shit that is momentum, it sucks I only ever login to raid because of how bad DH is atm
@joshshepherd5734 I will always be surprised that people hate momentum. It's a unique kind of skill you need for momentum. Mostly in m+. I guess momentum on a raid boss could be pretty easy, but in m+ there's a fun risk/reward aspect.
I'm still waiting for a Single-Minded Fury rework. It's nice that Mages get fixed, but I'm and old school Fury Warrior main. That spec has been replaced, removed, regiven, removed,and regiven and it's been an afterthought since TBC.
Either mages will be top dps in new teir or they will own (similar to what fire was) in pvp. I'm good either way. My mage is an alt. My ele shams and fury warrior are my go to for dps. I realize they aren't the best but eh, play what you like.
The only way I will play a Frost Mage is getting rid of the stupid ice shards above the head. You don't see Warlocks with shadow shards over heads marking soul shards do you? no it's in the UI.
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After all the major problems have been fixed, mage spell arts and particles need to be visually updated too. Mages are still stuck with 144p Barriers and portals when so many HD variations have been floating around since Legion
yes thank you
*laughs in priest visuals
Fire and arcane barrier looks good, frost definitely need a revamp though.
Honestly, I would prefer them to put more arcane or Drac'thyr looking effect on casting animation and blink
YES UPDATE THE PORTALS PLEASE
Do you really trust blizzard to remake spell animations that won't 100% ruin the initial intent of the spell. It would look so ugly and clunky with effects nobody would ask for and shipped without reading any community feedback.
They removed the decision from the playerbase about the Water Elemental. Rather than deciding to balance, or leave it be. This is the worst of both worlds. People who loved it's utilities now can only sparingly use it on a 2min CD tied with Mages most powerful spell. And people hated using it are now forced to play with it during the critical timer of Icy Viens. Blizzard removing agency and disregarding the frost mage playerbase. Damn.
As a frost mage main since vanilla, I've enjoyed the relative simplicity of the spec lately. I don't have a ton of time to devote to the game and learning a complex rotation isn't all that appealing to me. I'm eager to see how this feels, though
Been a frost mage main since cata, and it really felt over the last several expansions that we were being ignored
You mean frost dk
Frost mage is such a wasted spec. You just spam ice lance its so boring compared to the other two specs
@@siriusblack7714 I just like the Frost mage class fantasy. It's still more complex than a lot of other classes despite being simpler than the other mage specs.
@@very_greythat’s how I felt. Frost on the surface was relatively simple. Then you realize there’s a lot more conditionals and complexity that get added in.
Really excited for these changes.
Laughs in arcane mage. Literally the worst spec, always forgotten and it seems Blizzard still hate us.
I'm glad they made changes. I leveling Mage for DF, but put it down after a little bit because Arcane's rotation requires a PhD, to get through and alternate between burn and conserve phases. I just did not want to put the work in to learn that. Fire is what I enjoy the most,and Fire has been ass since Launch. I'm looking to give Mage another chance when this goes live.
Arcane isn't that complex. It's just kinda rigid.
@@PinHeadSupliciumwtf Pre=pull
Evocation-Rune-Radiant Spark-Arcane Blast-Arcane Blast-Arcane Blast-Arcane Surge-NetherTempest-
Barrage-Magi-Shirting Power
[Inside Magi]
Missle-(Nether Precision) Arcane Blastx2-Missile-Arcane Blastx2-Missile.
[Mini Burn]
Rune-Radiant Spark-AB-AB-AB-Nether Tempest-Barrage-Magi
(opener)
Evocate-Arcane Orb-Rune-Radiant Spark-Ab-AB-AB-Arcane Surge-Nether Tempest-Barrage-Magi-Shifting Power
Meanwhile my main is Blade of justice into Judgement, Wings into Execution Sentence into hammer of Wrath, TV, wake of ashes, TV, Divine toll into priority.
To me they are lightyears apart. Now if I put in the time yes I know i could learn it, but I just was not that motivated to do it. But you are correct Arcane is really rigid, but at the same time you could take some solace in that. Knowing what should come next.
With ret's priority system after the opener it can get a lil convoluted. Until Execution Sentence comes back up.
What would like to see for Arcane Misiles rather than a straight damage buff, is for the damage to ramp up over their duration, so you have a reason not to cut it short. Also it would be nice if they slowed the targets movement speed whilst channeling, but only when the target was moving towards the mage.
+1 for damage scale as time goes on. Increase mana consumption as the damage goes on
Definitely. Arcane missiles is why I want to play arcane mage. Wtf is all the other bs in the kit
@@gohomeherobelieve it or not all the other bs is great for pvp lmfao
Glacial Spike hasn't just "Felt bad," it was a literal DPS loss to even talent into. Legion-GS is my favorite spell in the game. Frostbolt could crit, which meant beefier Icicles, which meant a bigger GS, which could also crit, so it double dipped. And haste meant you were doing it all more often. And mastery meant higher FB>Icicle returns. But then they flatlined FB>Icicle conversion so it's always a set amount and then ramped up Icicle generation (feels like everything generates an Icicle these days) so the GS casts are now too common and hit like a wet noodle. GS was everything I'd wanted Chaos Bolt to be but more. I want ONE class with a slow, hits-like-a-dump-truck ability that takes awhile to charge up then absolutely chunks boss health. That was GS. If I got lucky with crits I could watch 15% of a boss's health disappear. And if I didn't get lucky I was still pumping. I miss that. No class like that currently exists anymore.
Kinda how i wish there was a build for hunter that dives into the idea of being a true sniper. Giant damage hits that you have to "aim" for a sec or if a bow pull super hard on the string to let a annihilating projectile that would be called "headshot"
You should definitely give enhancement a try. The current dragonflight version of enhancement is in my opinion one of the most well designed specs the game has ever had
@@AlekprinnyEnhacement Shaman ?
At the end of BFA with the huuuge mastery buffs it was also great.
"I want a spec to have a really big nuke, but also really strong basic filler too" This is your brain on Mage retardation.
For the love of God, make ice block immune to dispel and shattering throw. not everything is pve. we want pvp changes too !
but i do love the fact that FINALLY, us fire mages have our flame strike contributing to hot streak. major win for Rbgs !
The age of the mage has begun!
/adjusts glasses and awkwardly charges off into the woods
Mage has always been my favorite type of class fantasy, but I've never really enjoyed the play style. Recently been warming up to it for whatever reason. Glad to see the specs getting even more love. Hyped to try them out with the new changes
I have been a frost mage main since WotLK and these changes look sooooooo refreshing. Can't wait
+1 for Hunter next, it's about time...
My problem with Mage has always been that the player mages are the least cool mages in the Warcraft universe. There's a lot of things, spells, playstyles, but so little of it matches what other mages actually do. This is always gonna be a subjective thing, but Arcane's always been a good example for me. Somehow it has been chained down by its mana bar identity for so many years now, when you have a lot of cool things you could do with the spec like involve some of the Torghast powers, teleporting, more illusions, more polymorph-centric spells etc. Like, it works, but is it really just me that feel like it's so uninteresting from a fantasy standpoint, compared to what you actually do? I think only Frost is approaching it.
Agreed. The Arcane mage is thematically supposed to be a master of space and time but hasn't felt that way in practice. Torghast had some abilities that approached that (i.e.blinking=more arcane simulacrums) They just didn't bother to make fun abilities streamline for w/e reason.
Really wish Acane explosion wasn't a melee ranged spell. Why not target a mob and let it be spam cast? Or if that's too op perhaps have it function as a dot like Nether Tempest? Or here's a crazy one --Arcane missles as an AoE. That would look and feel sick to me.
No clue what you mean
I am excited for this rework. Fire was always my favourite mage spec so I'm very keen to play it.
Give the freaking water elemental a taunt!
I don't like that they remove the water elemental as a permanent pet. It was the whole reason I created a goblin mage. Silly, but I liked me being smaller than my pet...I'm sad.
Idc abt the rework I want my frost elemental as a permanent pet. That was the only reason I played Frost Mage
mage YES leveling NOW been wanting to make ults for awhile so been grinding some out for extra dailies and to try other classes with the xp buff it makes now a perfect time to do so! Thanks for the content hope all is well with everyone!
Barely fixing the class with targeted fixes when other classes got cool talents and talent revamps feels like neglect. Mages had a terrible new talent tree setup, it was mostly porting SL into talent form and our feedback was ignored so much on the forums it was ridiculous. Other classes got cool new stuff. I really want a dev that cares and it feels beyond insane with how much mages feature in WoW lore to have so much neglect. It's bad for blizz too because mage archetypes are wildly popular, D4 shows that. They only shoot themselves in the foot having a lackluster class in that archetype because it equals fewer subs.
When i heard they were finally fixing frost mastery mechanics, I was initially overjoyed, then pissed when I found out they were deleting water elemental. I'm not pro PVPer, but I've just recently started experimenting with it and the ranged snare is dope in BGs. So even today, I would argue it's not entirely useless. Warlocks got permanent pets in WoW after only having temporary summons in the RTS. I was overjoyed when I came back to legion and it was permanent, and now I'm sad again. Them refusing to properly balance it or give it synergies with other talents to make it competitive with lonely winter is not a good excuse to remove permanent water elemental. And, they opted for the least optimal solution. Most mages tend to either really love or really hate it. now everyone gets it NO MATTER WHAT. And no one gets the version they want. It's the laziest class design decision I've seen in WoW so far and I'm not suprised blizzard did this to mages. I've posted about mastery scaling weirdness on the forums for YEARS. I don't want to beg to get something back I already had that was a major part of lore. Screw these devs. I feel like they've just shown absolute contempt for the class while giving us bandaids. It's functional. Finally. after years. It got nothing really cool. Other classes it felt like got cool new tools with their talents, now we finally have a viable class with our flavor being deleted. ffs i want a dev who cares about my lore and wants to give me something cool.
Me so hyped and happy with all the mage changes coming. Being a frost mage I am eagerly awaiting all these new changes
7:48 I suddenly felt a chill rush down my spine, and thought of flaming grills and dry aged stakes... Guga?!
I play Mage since BC and actually liked it all the way through. Since WOTLK i also have a sweet spot for Arcane. It wasn't bad as some people think it was the last expansions, it just got less love than other classes in recent years. But still I very much appreciate that the class i am playing as main for over 15 years is finally being worked on more.
hrm. As a Mage main, the reason Frost is so popular is because it's the only spec with a connected slow ability, thus making it the easiest to Solo with. Without a similar talent for the other specs, frost will maintain it's dominance. We USED to have a slow we could add (we're talking Cata era, old school talent trees) to the main arcane spam ability, but they removed that in MoP with the talent changes. Even with it added back to Arcane Barrage, it's lackluster compared to frost applying it with nearly every ability. Without that, Solo-ability of the Mage tanks. Hence Frost's dominance in all things outside of Dungeons and Raids (which is, y'know, the bulk of the game).
Lol, handicapped much bruh? Name one other class in WoW that has a slow effect built in when being attacked by other players/npc.
We all know developers playing mage and rogue.
Exciting stuff. Been maining mostly Mage in one shape or form since Cata. Looks like fun times ahead.
Cheers, mate. 🍻
Have been a mage main since BC and over the last few Xpacs Ive been really considering changing. EVERYTHING else felt more fun, more engaging. Im so grateful to see some changes coming that seem promising cause the mage has just been bland.
Excited for the stream on Monday! I was so sad that it was cancelled yesterday. It gets me through my Friday
Affliction in F Tier. T_T
*Start casting Seed of Corruption*
*Every mob is dead before the cast goes off*
Even if the cast did go off, it needs to explode and then the DoT's need time to tick. Meanwhile every other class was just doing direct AOE damage all along. It's like that meme where someone who goes to college is only starting their careers years after their Friends and getting nothing but debt for it, meanwhile their Friends were all earning money throughout that time.
Now they just need to rework DK and allow unholy the option to wield a staff and while wielding a staff, their skills alter to ranged/necromancer versions with undead minions that are worth-a-dam...
Mages have been left to rot for about three expansions. This is such much needed love.
Mages, Rogues, and Priests have been Blizzard's favorite since TBC, I don't know what the hell you're talking about lmao
@@Saintlel Are you talking about pvp? Because the rogue part is cap for PvE
@@Saintlel .. and you have no idea what you're talking about if you think Mages havn't been busted in PvE for a long time. /shoo
@@Saintlel Play a mage in any other PVP content, they suck without two other people to stun and heal for them.
yeah, you´re right. I have been a frost mage main for nearly a decade now and the last time the class really felt well balanced was during Legion
frost rework sounds very cool. super excited to see how it pans out. numbers can always be tuned but if its not fun and doesn't feel great who cares
Started really playing the fire mage in legion. Im excited to feel like a mage again
As a Hunter it would be nice to get a rework. When your class is a straight damage class with no utility but you are also sitting in the bottom tier of DPS something has gone wrong. I'm glad other specs are getting some much needed changes and love but at the same time it's hard not to be a little irked.
As a person who mains - and loves - her hunter, I wholeheartedly agree. I play BM mostly and sure, depending on pets for DPS is great, but there's just so many issues right now, including - and if this is fixable someone fill me in cause I can't figure out a thing - pets randomly going off to mobs you don't want to have pulled, and attacking. IMO we also need more stable space (for collectors like me, but also I think for selection for different content; two of my five slots can be for Mythic dungeons alone). I don't play MM that much though I do like the idea behind it, sort of. And survival... I haven't touched at all. I'm not even sure what I'd suggest for that spec and while I do like the idea of melee for hunter, survival doesn't make me think of something like that.
I'll probably give it a shot again. I started mage in Legion and played it up through Shadowlands and at that point, I was just kinda over Rune of Power. I like many other mages have a not so good relationship with it.
12:15 Arcane being in melee is not that bad, especially with how arcane orb works and u want to aim it correctly. The biggest problem mage had was RoP and the Kyrian ability. It's annoying that they are a must pick
Gotta love sitting and doing nothing for a couple seconds just to lower cooldowns.
A lot of cool stuff indeed ! I just wish we had a way to play a frostfire style of gameplay. Always loved that fantasy and we could have some nice interactions between frost and fire but sadly mages have to specialize in only one school of magic
I totally get what you mean. Sadly blizzard proved that this will never happen in slands. Slands was hailed as the big unpruning expansion with lots of class wide abilities, frostbolts for fire, fireblast for frost blabla.
And yeah they dif that but with absolutely 0 interactions and extremely niche use in pvp
I hated how complex they made arcane; it used to be a nice relaxing spec and now it just... does not work well unless you really, really are able to pull everything off perfectly.
I like the idea of arcane having a high skillceiling. Arcane always looked for me like the kind of mages that went trough 70 years of training in special mage colleges :p but you should be able to at least do decent damage ofcourse.
@@tftg458 Yes and right now it's like awesome damage or abysmal damage and it just isn't fun especially with all the movement they have been requiring :)
I've been a frost mage main since the start of BfA, and I am really happy about glacial spike ❤ I can't wait
The only thing I don't like is getting rid of perma-Water Elemental. That's just crappy.
As a mage player for many years, this makes me very happy to hear. I started maining mage at the end of Wrath or beginning of Cata and somewhere just around Legion's launch I finally gave up on it because Rune of Power was so unenjoyable. I would still play PvP through BfA as a mage, but it just wasn't the same. I felt like MoP frost mage was the most enjoyable, so maybe these changes will bring back some of that feeling.
Just gotta time warp as soon as possible! Thanks for bringing up Shifting Power, hate seeing it lmao
I'd like some form of empowered spell for mages. Yeah, I know, it's *supposed* to be an Evoker-only thing, but what's stopping a fire mage from overcharging a Pyroblast to do massive, explosive AoE damage? What's keeping an ice mage from overloading a Frozen Orb to make it gigantic or freeze enemies or throw ice spikes as it traverses the battlefield? Why can't an arcane mage charge up an Arcane Explosion to have mini-novas that fire rapidly inside a dome that grows as it charges?
I have been waiting years for this Frost mage rework and attention to the spec/class overall. We have been absolutely boned for years and having to keep up with other classes was a pain.
So happy to see my spec/class finally get the love it deserves. Frost mage best mage.
Nice! all of my mages have been Frost. It has always just appealed to me more.
Nice, Mage has been my main for 18 yrs...glad to see these changes! I'll need to break my long hiatus from WoW retail and check it all out....
The issue with Rune of Power is balance. In order for it to be viable it needs to be insanely strong due to your mentioned drawbacks, so as you said, it became the default choice. Well Blizz then has to balance the ENTIRE mage kit around an ability that gives you +40% damage. Meaning our damage outside of RoP is shit tier at best. Removing it lets mages finally have the freedom to just do damage at will and I for one am pumped.
Fire mage has been my main since Wrath. I'm ride or die with fire 🔥. It has been rough at times. But it's always been a fun challenge.
Bro, I know this is a point of contention, but am I the only one who misses old living bomb spread?
@@jonu5505 I loved it. But it would pull mobs..
@@tk421trooper1 Yeah, you're right. Probably would be a huge issue in M+. But.. damn.
I loved the idea of fire spec for Mage and the class/spec fantasy, but the massive delta between what it's capable of and what you can manage if you aren't able to pull a 100% perfect rotation every time just wasn't fun to play. I really hope these changes even that out.
When I read the title i was envisioning something like Summoner and Monk in Endwalker.
Started in 2.1 as Boomkin, in 3.1 went mage main and paladin primary alt all the way until 7.3.5, 8.0 to 9.0 mained Dh keeping mage/paladin as alts less playtime. 9.0 till 10.1.5 Paladin main no real actual alt just leveled toons to cap. I will have mage back as the other toon I actually focus on (tinkered with boomkin at the start of Dragonflight as main alt but just dont have enough fun with alts atm to justify.) As an alt due to it being my 'career' main hoping for more and likely will go back to mage main primary alt paladin for 11.0
I was a mage player from vanilla to BfA when I decided it was no longer something I enjoyed, any spec of it. A huge part of that was rune of power, so I'm thrilled. All of these things make me want to log into my mage right away.
i have played mage since Vanilla and i currently main one. I REALLY hope it is true and we can really choose our talents. Especially for fire. I'd LOVE to be able to just use hyperthermia instead of sunkings blessing. Maybe the elongation of the sun kings buff will already be enough to make it more bearable. These short timers really stress me out and it feels absolutely horrible if you loose the buff cuz of a mechanic
Hunter could use a rework or at least a heavy look over.
Thanks for these videos Bellular. I'm definitely going to try out fire
A mage was my main for a long time, and I remember a time runepower wasn't even a thing. Those were the days I really enjoyed playing my mage.
I think I possible, if Aug invoker succeeds, that several specs will be turned into support dps. Arcane could be a potential spec for such a change and i think it could fit thematically with its shields and time manipulation.
As for how players would feel about that change, I don't know how that would go. They could just sabotage arcane for a bit then change it to support and people would love it.
Survival hunter is definitely a juicy target for a shift to support dps, I mean it's in the name. Could be a good option for a spec specific Brez.
Ok I'm not gonna lie, back when Legion came out and they completely remade the Survival Hunter spec, I kind of saw the potential of doing similar for other classes, but mostly for Mage. There are mage warriors in universe so why do we not have one? If any of the specs were to become it, it'd probably be Arcane imo just because they've always seemed to have trouble with Arcane since launch. Plus, it literally has a melee range AoE.
I quit Dragonflight because I rolled a mage and didn't want to go through the hassle of re-gearing when I had incarnate icon and a bunch of other BiS stuff. I was forced into Arcane by my raid team and I hated how much CD management there was. I loved Frost and despised Fire. I think they did super well with the Frost and Fire changes and I will definitely come back to try them. Arcane on the other hand hasn't had the most annoying part removed. I know CD management and DMG windows is the entire complexity of the spec but I just think certain things like Nether Tempest taking up a GCD and Radiant Spark being awkward to use makes the spec so annoying to play. Also Icy flows is just dumb, make Arcane Blast castable while moving during Radiant Spark and Arcane Power windows and the spec would feel so much better.
Mhmm death knight class rework would be nice. So hard to time cleave as a frost when people keep moving right after I drop my death and decay..
I've always had a special love for mages. Wows most iconic class, but I want to keep playing my hunter. Blizz makes is hard tho, I can't compete with most classes in m+. If there's a couple of hard aoe hitting classes, I can't ramp up my dmg.
I remember raiding in MoP and having to deal with that version of Rune of Power, hoping it would be gone within the near future.
That did not happen, until now, thank god it is being removed.
Mages were very unique back in Vanilla. It's why I've mained Mage since the game started. The problem is that over the years, every other class was given the abilities that made mages unique, except better versions of it with different skins. Nearly every class as an Oh, s**t ability. Nearly every class can slow, nearly every class has CC. Food and water became virtually a non-issue. Portals are all over the world. It made Mage feel less useful.
This is a long overdue change. I may actually put a pause on Classic to try it on Retail.
Mage player since launch day, glad to see them getting some love.
I've always had a frost mage alt as my main alt for every expansion except Legion, haven't been happy playing it for awhile and I hate rune so much. Excited for the rework.
I wish there was any kind of love for monks. We still deal with bugs introduced all the way in MoP.
Hopefully the next revamp is finally SV Hunter going ranged again. I still believe
Even though I'm not playing WoW right now, i'm loving what Blizzard is doing with classes. It happend with Paladins where they look alot more fun and less frustating to play and now with mages...
I wish they got fancier with the spells, so much of it is just icicles or fireballs, magic can be so wonderous and aesthetically interesting, half of arcane is just purple flashes
I mean I never really thought of it, but yeah Mages have had a lot of issues, I used to play mages as my mains, I don't really seem to have a main atm in this expansion, none of them really feel much better than any of the others, which isn't necessarily bad because I enjoy playing all of them quite a bit right now.
Finally!!! I have always played Arcane mage (frost as back up spec) as my main alt since TBC. I absolutely loved and hated it over the years. However, the rotation tickled my brain in all the right spots. In DF I officially shelved my mage after hitting 70 because of the lack of mobility, lack of viable aoe, and overall bleh. I opted for spriest and ret paladin alts instead. Now I may have to pick my mage up again.
Not happy about perma water ele being removed frost has always been my favorite because i could be a not dark spell caster with a pet... guess i will just stick to my evoker still.
Im so happy for this, one of the main reasons I've stopped playing outside of doing trading post stuff is the class is just so dull. Rune of Power is just boring but its always our best choice and no matter what we're doing M+, world content, single target or AoE our rotation is the same maybe expect the odd passive talent. Even in Legion which for me is the best the class ever was there was little deviation between builds although incradibly fun to play it gets stale doing the same rotation for 10 years. Arcane as well every now and then it suddenly becomes the best spec in the entire game and its so mind numbing to play.
Nice cause this is one of the very few DPS specs i like in the game and i can finally play it(Frost Mage).
If arcane had a pet like warlocks had a void walker, the issue of arcane explosion being in melee would be totally ok
As a hunter main, I also really hope they put the same level of care into fixing hunters. They were doing so well but they’ve just gradually fallen off over the last few expansions.
I'm very excited for the rework. I've been a mage main for over 15 years, and this expansion I switched to maining DK because mage just wasn't fun anymore. It's been droll, Rune was absolutely atrocious to use, and the gameplay has been the same since Legion. I'm very, very excited to play my mage more.
Yay. Ive been playing mage for 15 years. And stopped playing last year out of frustration. Is I only play mage, so I welcome this:)
I love Virrior bar set up what addon is it please.
Have been praying for the removal of rune of power for several expansions now, so glad it's finally going to be gone. Will definitely pick up my mage again.
i am hoping the next rework comes for dk, unholy and blood have some very archaic play styles that were centered around things we either no longer have or can't have despite still being in the game.
can somebody tell me what addon is flashing his keybinds when he is hitting the dummy ?
I hope arcane gets more love because I am going to main my mage now and I hope they get rid of arcane charge or make it for something else similar to paladins holycharge. For example arcane charge would be used for arcane surge instead. Most annoying part of arcane is building charges to do any damage with your main spell.
I will NOT miss that rune
When do the mage changes go into affect? Are they in game now or as part of a future patch? The video did not specify if this was on PTR or not, or I missed it.
He said next patch at the beginning of the video.
Yeah I've been wanting to play a caster on wow for a few years aesthetically only mages have ever appealed to me personally ( I love legitimately every spec in the game with the exception of balance druids, and dig them lore wise and encountering them in pvp) but mage just never played fun. I think with the new horde zandalari mount everyone gets next patch I'm going to definitely give mages another proper chance from square one.
From tbc tobfa I played fire/frost mage and retired that char now I might try frost again..but im happy with my destro warlock right now
So I have been playing Mage since WotLK and have mostly been playing fire since it's literally just the most fun I have... playing a game in general really. But I am currently on a break from the game and when I saw this video it scared the shit out of me (will the class still be as fun when I return?)..... damn these changes look great!! Arcane's rigidness is still quite unappealing but frost looks a lot more fun to play. My beloved fire spec also kept all the cool things and replaced some of the bad things, all around great stuff! There is only one change I would like to see: Hyperthermia should have some sort of announcement when it is comming, like a countdown. When this effect was on the legendary in Shadowlands I had to make some insane Weakaura to remind me when it procced so I could start spamming pyro and that was really unfun/feelsbad if you missed out on a cast. If it would go like '3, 2, 1, get blasting kid!" that would honestly make it the most enjoyable proc to play with.
I've tried to level both a frost mage and an arcane mage. I'd basically given up on both. I'm not a skilled player so I pretty much blamed myself. The kill one thing then eat - repeat until I die thing just wasn't fun. Maybe I'll be brave and try again.
Yes, hunter needs not a fix, or a rework, maybe a redemption, but it need a RESURRECTION. Good to see class changes, as in their gameplay (not just flat numbers, or damage increase) :D.
Windwalker’s next, right? RIGHT?!
What's wrong with WW ATM I love it, core rotation is fun, utility and mobility is good, I get st damage isn't great but it's fun gameplay wise
Ww talent tree is fine and was actually highly praised at the start of dragon flight. They just still have damage scaling issues that for some reason they refuse to address properly
DK needs it way more - like fifty CDs to get going
No DH! BUT I get it, both classes are in desperate need of talent reworks! I'm happy for the classes that got it but man being stuck with the shit that is momentum, it sucks I only ever login to raid because of how bad DH is atm
@joshshepherd5734 I will always be surprised that people hate momentum. It's a unique kind of skill you need for momentum. Mostly in m+. I guess momentum on a raid boss could be pretty easy, but in m+ there's a fun risk/reward aspect.
I'm still waiting for a Single-Minded Fury rework. It's nice that Mages get fixed, but I'm and old school Fury Warrior main. That spec has been replaced, removed, regiven, removed,and regiven and it's been an afterthought since TBC.
Either mages will be top dps in new teir or they will own (similar to what fire was) in pvp. I'm good either way. My mage is an alt. My ele shams and fury warrior are my go to for dps. I realize they aren't the best but eh, play what you like.
I'm glad that I am not the only one who is afraid of the rotation from the arcane mage XD
Tbh learning is it Hard but once you learnd it its kinda ez
I like Icy Veins the way it is. Machine Gunning my enemies with frost spells is fun.
I’m confused by what you meant with time warp and having to hold it and you lose dps?
I always loved hardcasting Pyro as long as it was worth the cast time.
If I wanted no cast time I'd play arcane.
But I don't play wow anymore anyways.
The only way I will play a Frost Mage is getting rid of the stupid ice shards above the head.
You don't see Warlocks with shadow shards over heads marking soul shards do you? no it's in the UI.
I alway wanted to play mage because I love the fantasy, but I never got into the gameplay.
Gonna give it another try now.
Very happy I just got my mage to 70, while leveling a bunch of alts with the Diablo buff
As a CE mage I am excited!
I actually came back to the game when I found out they removed Rune of Power