Watchmen: Killing millions to save billions
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2024
- Ozymandias (Matthew Goode) explains his evil masterstroke to Nite Owl (Patrick Wilson) and Rorschach (Jackie Earle Haley) and tells them that he already put his plan in motion 35 minutes ago.
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I love how Ozzy subverted the whole episodic comic villain trope
He wasn't going to be thwarted by a lack of planning or allowing the good guys to have a leg up or chance to win, he did his plan, and THEN he gloated, like a proper mastermind
But he still failed as Rorschach had sent proof to a newspaper if I am remembering correctly.
@@limemobber Uh, no? Rorschach got obliterated by dr man Hattan, because if truth got out, total war would happen
@@TinyBitMouse01 Prior to them going to Antarctica, Rorschach had sent his journal with his findings to a newspaper. The movie ends with ambiguity as to whether or not that journal gets looked at, though.
@@TinyBitMouse01 He sent his journal before he left.
@@nameisme9727 ah thank you, I will say, who knows how much information that could destroy the world is in that journal, I'll have to review the comic to see if they also left it ambiguous
I never understood why Rorschach mask has an image of my parents fighting
Brilliant.😆
Holy shit that was good 👍🏼😭😂
Oh that is just brilliant
@@JorgeBraceroPR Reminds me of the joke "I don't know who this Rorschach guy is, but he sure likes drawing naked men."
Geez dude, it doesn't, the images on his mask are what you interpret them to be. It's not actually your parents fighting.
I remember when I first saw this scene.
"I'm not a comic book villain. Do you think I'd explain my plan if there was even the slightest chance you could affect the outcome."
Me: Said every comic book villain ever.
"I triggered it thirty five minutes ago."
Me: Oh...well that changes things.
Lmao saaaame
That was just brilliant writing. Something no one expects.
"Oh... well I turned them all off thirty minutes ago."
"Oh."
Just like he did in the original comic.
@@MMTrigger there it was space alien monster, i liked it cause it doesn't blaming dr Manhattan, but did not liked it cause, come on, space alien thing? Thats just ridiculous.
When he’s sitting there letting Night Owl punch his face in, you really understand how “big picture” Ozymandias was thinking. It doesn’t matter if an individual dies, it’s about world peace to him. He doesn’t care if he’s one of the “millions”
it's hard to be burden with knowledge and capability. it's like the hardest choices requires the strongest will.
@@malikhaidar lmao you kidding me ? Special forces in the military usually all have higher then average IQ
@@mftripz8445 source?
@@malikhaidar literally quoting Thanos to justify the actions, wild.
Read his comics backstory - he took up crimefighting after his girlfriend overdosed on drugs. He was truly at a point beyond selfishness
God I love that line. "I triggered it 35 minutes ago." Thats just the freaking best ever. Finally a movie villain who does it right. Its right up there with the bomb exploding when the timer hits 5 minutes. :p
It’s in the original comic but yea it is so epic
In this Universe the bad guys win 😅
"movie" villain. You mean the graphic novel villain that was written like 20 years prior to the movie entering production?
@Faceman Gaming Not that he can't, but probably doesn't want to
Veidt is not a villain though. He was willing to look at a gruesome solution for a problem that was beyond solving through diplomatic means. In a world where the USA have Dr. Manhattan the Soviets would never back away and war would be inevitable, because there no longer is assured mass-destruction on both sides.
"I'm not a comic book villain." *Every reference to Ozymandias in the Watchmen comics disappears*
"I'm not a comic book villain. I'm a graphic novel villain, there is a difference you know."
lol
Insert Osbourne's "I am something of a villain myself." line.
Ironically, that would be extremely fitting considering the original Ozymandias poem
@@missbelled6700 Is the same bullshit
Explaining your master plan after the fact. I always imagined a true villain would be like this but I never thought I'd see the day when writers actually implemented it.
It's a different kind of story, one that is far too rare. Most movies are about the hero overcoming the villain and everything feels good and blah blah, but when the villain has a point this compelling, he/she can be allowed to win, and really it makes the rest of the heroic movies look like a sandbox compared to the gravitas in this ending.
Russia did something similar..
This is a line from the comic, written in 86 almost 40 years ago
He's most definitely the villain that will have bomb explode while still having 5 min remaining on the timer
@@jonathanlipp3213 Anytime anyone says something like "why don't movies/books/comics do this" or even "why isn't anything good anymore," there's a 99.9% chance they just don't bother trying to find good media and just watch the biggest hits, which by design are made extremely generic and are for 8-16 year olds who will drag their parents to see whatever Cool Thing is on
"The world's smartest man poses no more threat to me than does its smartest termite."
In my timeline he says 'ant'
In order to save the colony I had to trick it.
What’s funny is that he’s absolutely right, but Ozymandius still wins.
@@destroyerblackdragon Antz reference?
yeah but he beat Dr manhattan, practically without a fight
Nite Owl: Killing millions
Ozymandias: To save billions
Thanos: That gives me an idea
Thanos be like
killing trillions, to save trillions
Zack Snyder is the blue print
Killing trillions to save other trillions
Oh come on don't bring marvel shit everywhere
Nite Owl only killed 1 out of every 1000 people.
I never will understand why this movie did not received nominations and awards, this is probably the best comic book movie.
Literally what I said
Because it’s not the lame people’s style. Too many lame people today prefer to watch cheesy movies like Ghostbusters female version, Terminator Dark Fate, and Batwoman
Is the best,no doubt about it.
Agreed 100%
it was ahead of its time and way before all the superheroes movies hype . the theme is also too dark . why marvel did so well with their lighter and juvenile theme.
As much as I wish the giant interdimensional squid had been a thing in this movie, the choice to frame Doctor Manhattan is a good one as well. I mean considering he goes along with it he knows that it's both best for humanity and it frees him to leave as no one will ever want his help anymore.
@R B Well ACKSHUALLY the squid monster is teased earlier on in the comics. Ozy hired a bunch of biological scientists to design it, and then he assassinates them too.
@R B well it was actually from our world and it had the cloned brain of a power psychic in it that's why it's scream after ozzy teleported it killed so many
It doesn’t make sense if dr Manhattan leaves.
In the graphic novel ozymandias in addition to formulating the scientists to genetically engineer the squid for decades used his massive amount of resources to do a propane campaign to show extraterrestrial life could be possible
He's an American agent. He's been the dominating instrument of American will in the setting for decades. The squid worked because it was a new, neutral threat that America and the USSR would both have to be ready for. Well now, America's superhero went nuts. There would never be peace around that.
@@SmarkAngel yeah, thats why this framing dr manhattan dsnt work, shoulda kept the squid
The one villain that DOESN'T make the typical blunder of shooting their mouth off about their plan before acting on it.
If I were a villain, there's no way I'd be able to resist taunting them as they try and fail, seeing their efforts in vain. He'll, I'd properly do the anime thing of explaining my overpowered abilities just to make them feel despair the hopelessness of it all.
It reminds me of old saying I half remember: of a gun I ever held to your head, hope that their evil, they'll take their time pulling the trigger, enjoying the act. But if they're good, they'll just pull and kill you on the spot.
For Ozy, he was the good guy in the fact he didn't enjoy it. The completion of the goal itself is what he wanted.
I'm sure villains did. But Ozymandias was the hero of the story.
Instead he used his blunder to distract them from stopping it
The moral dilemmas and implications of this scene and movie are astronomical.
Ozzy killed millions of lives….and yet he saved the world and all the rest. So that millions more could be born and live.
Does that make what he did right? No……and yes. Right and wrong is sometimes too simple. And this is one of those times.
Fantastic story and movie.
He was wrong. If people would kill themselves then that moment could not be avoided. Ozzy just simply delayed what was coming anyway. The only salvation for humanity is expansion towards the stars.
@@Anarchizer - But even expansion to the stars only staves off the inevitable. Mankind, to save itself, must somehow divorce itself from its own evolutionary heritage. We must breed out our violence. What Ozzy did was AT BEST deferring the coming war. But given Rorshach's journal and its probable fate, act two of this little tale becomes considerably more problematic.
So he never watched Star Trek , then he would understand the true meaning of life.
The Moral to this story.
As smart as he was he was so ruled and controlled by fear that he let fear dictate all of his decisions.
He had no way of knowing if either side would launch a nuke, so out of fear and I guess Hubris he did it himself.
He was so smart that he could of figured out an alternative. Sick man.
@@kegginstructure He prevented humanity to face consequences.
The two victims that hugged before they went out....that's what gets me. Strangers embracing the unknown...unfortunately that was death for them.
I watched the movie first, but when I read the comic it really got to me, and I can't recommend it enough. You spend time getting to know all these regular people in the city, seeing how they interact, caring about them, then in a moment they are all gone, killed
@@EpicFail7777777 It also forces you to actually confront the monstrosity of the act. Its not a noble thing and its utterly horrific. Evil, even if done for some noble end, is still evil.
@@TheNEOverseit makes me think of a scene from Mass Effect. A doctor ends up sterilising an entire group of people to stop them from potentially continuing a galactic war. Then he is forced to confront the emotional trauma of a group and of people who have so many of their children die in stillbirth. When he comes to regret it, he says: “focused on big picture, big picture made of little pictures.”
@@TheNEOverse There's no such thing as evil.
@@avada0 Nah, there's definitely evil out there. The worst part is that this evil doesn't come from spirits or demons, but is perpetuated by regular human beings.
So it probably isn't that big of a moment to most but I really liked when the two guys who I assumed were complete strangers in their final moment hugged eachother for comfort not wanting to feel alone before the inevitable death they saw coming. Truly no hatred but fear and comfort in moments of pure humanity
I can only assume you haven't seen the movie. The young guy would come to the older guys news stand and read comics.
@@DagothWit Correct. I don't remember if the theatrical cut showed much of that, but the extended director's cut does, including the animated pirate comic segments that the kid was reading.
If you read the comic they fight like cats and dogs always arguing but seeing each other everyday and there's many scenes in transition where the two of them talk while the newspaper highlights what the heroes are doing this scene shows humanity at its finest two people who argue everyday but care about each other becoming family in the face of death. Beautiful writing
As far as I'm concerned that's kind of the most important panel of the comic. It's the contrast between two shlubs who aren't even friends really, but in the final analysis recognise that we only have each other and how we are together in the here and now, and a group of high-minded superheroes, some godlike and some deranged, carrying out terrible acts of violence because they want to make the world a better place. There's a question running right the way through Watchmen, implicitly dropped by Rorschach at the start: is the world worth saving when people are capable of so much evil? And with these last few seconds of a pair of unimportant people, the coin seems to finally come down on Yes.
@@MCVessels Si vale la pena
I love how depressing the realization of this scene is. We’ve been building up the entire movie for this moment as they’ve been bringing the team back together and traveling all the way to the poles to fight for the lives of millions. Then to finally reach there and have all that hope crushed in an instant when you realize that they lost before they even arrived. It really shows how unfair the world can be at times as there really was nothing they could have done, even for Rorschach’s death as none of them combined could stop Dr Manhattan from killing him.
no. if they had stopped him billions would die in ww3, no one expected them to save anything. you clearly went into this movie with the wrong mindset. the movie frames roroshach as a flawed person who you should not be rooting for.
@@williamwoolf8072 This may have stopped WW3 temporarily, but it is not a permanent solution and only delays it. Making a bigger bad exist will only work for so long before war starts again, it’s just a flawed attempt by Ozymandias which sacrificed millions of lives for a temporary solution that doesn’t even address any of the real problems of the Cold War.
Also if Dr. Manhattan actually cared about humanity, he could easily solve all of lives problems from ending world hunger and poverty and so on, but instead he lets the Cold War brew hotter and hotter and just dips after an easy band aid fix is put over it because he wasn’t doing anything to help.
Rorschach is obviously flawed, but he is obviously meant to be rooted for more than Ozy or Manhattan as he can see how bullshit and insane this solution is and how people deserve to know the truth for while a large population of people were just killed. It reminds of Thanos wiping out half of all life to stop them from getting to the point that they run out of resources, which is obviously a flawed and temporarily solution to deal with a much bigger issue, just like here.
TLDR: No man should have this type of power to make a decision like this, and even if they can this is a horrible solution that is temporary at best, which is why Rorschach was trying to stop it.
@@williamwoolf8072el cómic fue escrito para no apoyar a nadie, ozymandias es un desagradable ególatra que se cree héroe de peli gringa, el tipo de verdad se ve como el gran conquistador al nivel de Ramsés, puro ego ahí no hubo ningún tipo de bondad ni heroísmo, faltó su más importante escena donde dr Manhattan lo humilla al mostrar la obvia pequeñes de su acto, no detuvo el fin, lo extendió por un sueño que caerá por su propio peso
I love that, while dedicated to his beliefs in his plan, as he explains it you can see the weight of his actions on his face. He's not all "I'm saving the world! Don't you understand?!" He knows it's sick, but he knew it needed to be done.
I wish we had same villain in reality. Modern politics marches to WW3 out of pure greed.
@@heyhoe168 I really do not want to be turned to specks of dust by them.
Sacrifice is a powerful thing, but being sacrificed kinda sucks.
@@MrBud85 nope, he is an average greedy politic.
@@heyhoe168 he's more than just that
@@MrBud85 believe me, he is nothing more. Product of the system and result of the time. Brother in capitalism, btw.
All of that, and yet Henry Kissinger still manages to be the most evil person in this scene
lol
True
Only one in this scene to be still kicking, too!!
the fucker is still alive too
Apparently not anymore. Thank god.
Kissinger is left dumbfounded after realizing someone completely demolished his high score in one blow.
LOL
I really like how they adapted the interdimentional plant thingy from the comicbook into the energy blast produced by Dr. Manhattan. It was a clever move that simplifies the plot while making it make more sense within the context of the story.
i agree, its the rare occasion a director "tweaked" an ending of a source material.... only to actually make it better, crazy really
But it makes plan less probable to succeed . What guarantees that American president will react correctly to this explosion or Soviet leader would not blame Americans for Dr Manhattans actions?
In comic book all humans were hypnotised by psychic wave , so they were 100% sure it was an alien invasion and not a nuclear strike
Man, I would have to be *extremely* confident that it would save billions before even beginning this secret plan. Just goes to show how meticulous he is
I would say Diligent rather than Meticulous.
With it being the major cities all over the world, pretty sure it would be billions. His math must not be so good.
@@stevegoldstein3402 He didn't say he blew up _all_ cities, and for his goal he only technically needs to attack cities on opposite sides of the Cold War. Tokyo has 14 million (probably far fewer in that time period), but the population of most-populous cities drops rapidly. So I could see the total casualty count being less than 50 million.
He’s quite literally the smartest man alive, of course he would’ve considered that.
The movie didn't drop the final line that the graphic novel did. Ozy was extremely pleased with himself when Dr. Manhattan showed up to announce he was leaving. Just as Manhattan teleports away he says "It works, for a time." Then Ozy has a mental breakdown as he realizes his plan only delays things and he can't do the math to justify his actions because he has no idea how long his "peace" will be kept.
One of the hardest hitting parts of the Watchmen is that by the end of each characters story you realize each and every one is screwed harder than the last one. With Ozzy being the hardest because he did it to himself.
Ozymandias: "I'm going to kill millions to save billions."
Eren: "I'm going to kill billions to save millions."
Paul atreides: I'm going to kill billions to save bazillions
Yes
Quantity vs. Quality
More like "I'm going to kill billions so that the thousands that are left have a real reason to exterminate millions".
Only to be stopped by the power of friendship
Ozymandias is such a smart character. He breaks the cliche of Bond-like villains who, whether realize it or not, give the hero the opportunity to stop them with pointless exposition. Oz on the other hand says "fuck that" and elaborates AFTER he's already won. Genius.
He would have easily tricked Wanda (MSheU). Ozy truly is the smallest man alive in the Watchmen Universe!
Ozymandias is one of the greatest villains ever. My absolute supervillain of all time. Criminally underrated. Mathew Goode deserves so much appreciation for this.
I think he is an antihero,,, his purpose was to save humanity from themselves, even Dr Manhattan knew the world was going to end soon, sacrifice millions to save billions is a good trade
I wouldn't really call him a villain. One of the points of the movie (and comics) is that good or evil are relative.
agreed, memorable performance indeed
I’m glad they didn’t go with the squid monster. Framing Doctor Manhattan keeps Doc out of the picture and unites humanity. It was a simple change that really improved the story.
Watchmen is a good film that came out at the wrong time.
I agree but don’t you think that not using an external threat like the alien monster and using what is basically a weapon of the US of A may actually generate conflict, against aforementioned USA ?
Technically the squid creature did the same thing, it scared the entire planet into unity because they were afraid an inter-dimensional abomination was going to return. 🤷🏼♂️ I’m on the fence, both could have been acceptable if done properly.
I honestly prefer the Squid Monster. I like the change to Manhattan and it works for the film but Manhattan was quite literally a U.S weapon and citizen for most of this film. People would be blaming the U.S for not keeping proper control of literally the single most power 'weapon' they possess. The Squid Monster works better because it has no prior affiliation, it was simply an unforeseeable disaster outside of humanities control, they don't know where it came from and when it would strike again which would work to unite humanity as they would come together against a threat outside of their own creation and control. I get why Zach changed it because he might have thought it was too dumb or didn't fit the tone but it really worked in the graphic novel and I'm sure it could work again but Zach already changed very important aspects of the graphic novel that it doesn't really matter.
@@nicholaskhanyola989 I might be totally off base but I seem to recall (or just imagined? who knows) that the squid got changed because it was difficult to fit in the interstitials of the boat in a way first time audience would be able to follow (which are sort of necessary scenes to keep the entire thing from feeling like a complete ass-pull).
@@missbelled6700 I think you might be right. I'd still prefer the squid to Manhattan but I guess that could be difficult to do within the story Snyder was telling.
One little detail I love is that the bombs didn't detonate all at the same time. Ozy knew Dr. Manhattan wouldn't be able to destroy all those cities so far apart all at the same time, so he detonated the bombs in intervals, making it look like he teleported to a city, destroyed it, and then went to the next one.
"Do it? Dan, I'm not a Republic Serial villain. Do you seriously think I'd explain my master-stroke if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting its outcome? I did it thirty-five minutes ago."
Comic book not republic
@@willasproth That’s the original quote from the graphic novel
@@NeoCreo1 is that true
@@willasproth Yeah, the movie changed it to “comic books” because they weren’t sure modern audiences would get the reference (“Republic Serial” refers to old pulp films from the 1930’s)
@@NeoCreo1 wow, what an interesting fact
Everyone who supports ozymandius’ plan would be fine with it as long as the “millions sacrificed to save billions” didn’t include themselves or their loved ones being apart of those who are sacrificed. People talk about the necessity of sacrifice but wouldn’t be the ones willing to make that sacrifice
Just a bunch of edgelords
@@CeeDoubleU
"Ozymandius did nothing wrong..."
"Ok, he's going to sacrifice your ass..."
"I change my mind... "
I think you're wrong. Most people at the end of the day would not make that sacrifice because the weight of what they were about to do would dawn on them and most people would not want millions of deaths on their hands. The Dark Knight portrays this type of decision perfectly with the people in the two individual ferries. Doing horrible things for the "greater good" is evil and only a sociopath finds that acceptable.
Agree. Actually I think people would sacrifice many strangers to save few loved ones.
funny that someone else mentioned Eren Jaeger in this comment section because people who defend him make the exact same argument you're using to argue *against* Ozymandias. I guess it's kind of a "no shit" conclusion since they have opposing ideologies essentially but i just think it's interesting how both are extremely polarising.
I know that they made slight alterations from the comics but damn was that changed more believable. And compared to other superhero movies during the time Watchmen was released, it showed a more realistic world where heroes also fails with real consequences.
The people who say Snyder is a terrible director either haven’t seen this movie or didn’t understand it. I read the Watchmen comic after watching this movie and i think it’s impossible to make a more comic accurate movie than this one. This is a masterpiece in fictional cinema history, i don't care what box office says.
To be fair, even a broken clock is right twice a day. One good movie does not excuse another bad one. The true mark of a master, is consistency of performance.
oh its totally possible to make a more comic-accurate adaptation. literally another watchmen just adding the squid from the comics would make it comic-accurate
@@sleystad872 I actually prefer this to the squid ending. It allows dr Manhattan to leave forever
It was storyboarded and written for him, which is why it was great. He’s a _fantastic_ director of photography, he’s an artist with a camera, but his actors and plot suffer immensely when he tries to do everything himself.
Case in point: Lex Luthor. The lines are fine, menacing even, but the delivery was seriously lacking. A good director would have fixed that rather than put manic pixie Eisenberg opposite of Superman at the climax.
@@vysharra Have to disagree, they went with a young & modern ego-centric billionaire pyscho genius, if he delivered lines like an old man or deep voice or slow delivery, there wouldnt be enough difference in character between lex clark and bruce, the dynamic of these individual characters having their own personality that greatly differs is better than a bunch of dudes that look, sound, and move the same all in conflict with one another. Bruce is already brooding and clark is troubled with his own existence, having the lex many mostly knew from the animated movies wouldn't pose enough dynamic to the other characters.
This movie deserves to be praised as one of the greatest films ever made but for some reason it ended up becoming decisive split half and half and literally makes no sense to me. It’s so perfectly adapted from the book and just an overall really quality film. Damn entertaining and enjoyable like phenomenal story overall and for some reason it’s not a overly praised film and that just irks me.
It’s not a great adaptation of the book, but it did for cbm what the original did for cb
It'll get the respect it deserves in time. Lots of great art is not appreciated in its time.
The problem is, the good parts of the movie are really just Snyder staying faithful to the comic, in that the comic is a masterpiece. And that's half the problem for the film. It is very hard to replicate a masterpiece.
If you take a picture of the Joconde it won't be a beautiful picture just because you have the Joconde on it...
The difference here is that the movie try so hard to look like the book sometimes even shot per shot, that the quality of the film are not to be credited to the film it self but to the quality of the books it was adapted of, and there's the problem with the ending, in the book it end kinda the same way except it's a giant telepathic squid that destroy New York, not Dr. Manhattan...
If Allan Moore made that choice it was because the squid was so different from anything humanity could imagine that it cannot be replicated unlike Dr. Manhattan that the US government has studied, so the day humanity can replicate his power I don't give much of this new found peace... While for the squid, it's the opposite, it's so radically different the only solution humanity has it's to ally to face the threat...
So basically the book tells us to be aware of symbols and how people use history while the movie tell us that fiction can't be trusted and to not believe those that tell you story while telling us a story, it's completely autodestructive, by replacing the squid with Dr. Manhattan Snyder got himself stuck to come up with something that would has symbolic has the squid was...
This came out at a time where Superhero movies were very by the book, bright and had you leaving the theater with a smile on your face.
This wasn’t that movie. It challenges the entire notion of the superhero and people simply didn’t know how to react.
This was wayyyy ahead of its time. You release this now, it’d probably do a lot better..
2:32 always gives me shivers. I read the graphic novel and saw the relationship grow between the two - a resentful but caring relationship. In their last moments, they choose to die together. Brutal
I was always happy to see those 2 make it into the movie as well lol, if you know you know, i often think of the book the black kid was reading too lol, for some reason its just another random story inside of a story lol
I think it was sweet that those 2 guys had 1 final hug before they died.
1:00 i love how it says literally squid energizing, overshadowing the original impact in the comic
Wow good catch. I never would have seen that.
millions must die
billions must live
It's over
the watchmen have fallen
Wow, an actually competent comic book movie villain
Best thing ever. No last minute saves, no excuses. It's done.
In a weird twisted way by leaving clues that he knew the others would put together eventually and come after him he saved them. Ozzy in a very convoluted way got them out from the devastation he was about to unleash.
I don't know that it was intentional. If it was, he's even more deranged than he first appears. After all, the fragile peace he creates is predicated on a lie, paid for with the blood of millions. If that lie is uncovered and the peace fades slowly to the brink of war again, their deaths were in vain from the start.
A Villain who actually read the Evil Overlord list!!
"I triggered it 35 minutes ago."
Finally, a competent antagonist.
"Ozymandias is not the antagonist"
187 replies later
"Dude, Mr. Rogers was a socialist whether you want to believe it or not. Keep burying your head in the sand."
For me the most poignant part of the film was the end. The sacrificing of truth for comfort was a reminder of humanities duality. Notice how Rorschach was the only one who actually valued Truth, no matter the pain it caused him. One can see Dr. Manhattan's sadness at killing him, as he realized humanities inability to handle truth was it's weakness. Sheeple 🐑. No wonder he left Earth.
The "Truth" would have led to continued escalation and eventually nuclear war. Only a lemming (a worse concept than even a Sheep) would blindly want to follow destruction so badly for an ideal. No wonder Dr. Manhattan was curious about humanity's nonsensical nature too.
@@Swordsman99k Ozzy's plan was retarted. Humans would have been right back to square 1 in less than 5 yrs at most. Its the anatomy of misremembering.
"The person is smart, People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it"
Alan Moore declared on an interview that he made Rorschach as the guideline of what people shouldn’t strive for, absolutes, (That’s the reason why the character sees things black and white, his mask is symbolic of this) but made him so understandable as a character that people took a liking to him. Rorschach was not the “good guy” but the idealized and romanticized hero. Ironic for people not to see this.
@@Garlly34 nothing ironic about that. Moore was beckoned to his own devices as much as anyone else is to theirs. He failed to accomplish what he wanted with Rosarch and the story by the mere fact that he dropped the ball at everything else, thus making its a convoluted gray space. There are no absolutes in the way Rosarch was written by Alan more since everyone else around him was really indifferent which is itself its own form of absolute.
Everything in Watchmen is an idealistic and romanticized takes on various concepts. The only reason Rosarcb eventually stood out even to Moore as opposed to Dr. Manhattan or even comedian and Adrian is that the contradiction in Rosarch is more jarring and readily accessible and addressable, hence the closer it feels. Indifference=nihilism of the rest of the characters is actually far more nuanced and extremely complex to even identify, not to mention acknowledge. This is why there is a whole domain in philosophy completely engulfed by the explication if the content of nihilism and its absolutist tendencies.
This film alone has so many great one liners!!!
Imagine what a proper DCU could have been
I love how he even pays homage to the giant squid when all the cities are flashing on the screen and underneath Paris it says “S.Q.U.I.D. ENERGIZING.”
IMO, the best superhero movie of all time . Hands down.
Have you read the graphic novel??
@@AReallyLongAndUnremakableUser No unfortunately
@@mohamedomar6862 its worth buying.
@@AReallyLongAndUnremakableUser Will do👌
The incredibles wants to know your location.
What baffled me is why Dr. Manhattan had to kill Rorschach. He could have just set up someplace for him to live on another planet by himself, or given him some people to live with there, or maybe cryogenically suspend him for about 100 years until the brouhaha dies down, then unfreeze him. There were an infinite number of ways to deal with Rorschach other than just killing him.
rorschach asked for it to show manhattan that while possessing godlike powers, he doesnt have what it takes to change humanity s nature
Or turn him into a flower.
As good Watchmen is, the capabilities of Dr. Manhattan is a huge plot hole . For example:
Why couldn’t Dr. Manhattan just make every nuke simply disappear before they were even fired?
@@mariopalos9238 i think thats a plothole, not loophole
@@handleonafridge6828 Great point! But the answer would probably be that humanity would then just use conventional missiles to destroy each other. And if those were taken away, they would use regular guns and knives and bats to destroy each other. The goal was to get people to stop fighting each other and instead cooperate with each other, in the face of a common enemy. Taking away one form of weapon would just lead to the use of other weapons.
“Acts of goodness are not always wise, and acts of evil are not always foolish, but regardless, we shall always strive to be good.” - Martyr Logarius (Bloodborne)
This scene, along with the scene in the graphic novel, is probably the biggest "oh fuck" moment in history. I will never forget how this scene made me feel.
0:44 Literally every cliche villain ever: WRITE THAT DOWN WRITE THAT DOWN!
Something about those two random guys hugging each other as the bomb hits always gets me. It’s like at our last moments we just want to be comforted in some way. I’d do the same.
Ozimandias: "Killing millions to save billions"
Eren Yeager: "Killing billions to save millions"
Thanos: "Killing trillions to accomplish absolutely nothing"
Actualy Thanos in MCU intended to kill half of the galaxy's population so the other half would trive with the resource the galaxy can afford. On the side note I prefer condoms than mega genocide.
Ozymandias: "Killing millions to save billions."
IRL oligarchs: "Killing billions so thousands can live even more lavishly."
The best thing about Ozymandias is that he makes a great point. He’s brilliant, evil and maniacal sure, but is he wrong? He brought about world peace (for a time) and undoubtedly saved more lives than he took. Unlike Thanos with his “kill half of everything” plan (which is stupid, as he could have just created more resources instead of reducing life) Ozzy’s plan was logical.
Watchmen is my second favourite comic book movie of all time, just beaten by The Dark Knight.
@kid man no it wouldn't have worked, the entire thing is stupid. It would provide aboundance for the remaining 50% for a time only because they benefited of the production left by the other 50%. In the years 1700 the world population was about 10% of what it is today and yet the 18th century was not remembered for its lack of poverty
Creating double the resources would have only went against Thanos's plan in the first place, to slow down development since he saw what happened with his people when they reached max capacity
The problem is this:
Who the fuck are you to judge who lives or dies?
"I think we should start bringing the world peace by killing you and your family first."
If you disagree with that statement, then you are a hypocrite.
I would have had so much respect for Thanos if his snap included himself. But no, he wanted to play God and murdered countless lives while sparing his life. To me, he is no different than a school shooter.
@@csguak Oh I don’t really agree even if logically he was “right”, it’s morally grey too which is why he’s such a good villain.
Thanos DID include himself in the snap canonically in the comics, he simply won the 50/50 coin toss and survived. Not sure if that applied in the movie though.
@@csguak but the whole point is that it chose at complete random, Thanos even sacraficed his daughter he loved to get an infinity stone, the only true and far way was that the snap, snapped Half of everyone which could have included himself
2:33 that hug was heartbreaking....
I hated how cold and calculating they made him. In the books he screams with joy when it works. He really cares about people and genuinely thought this was his only option.
If he cares so much I don't think a large-scale massacre should have him screaming with joy, no matter how many people it would save.
@Giovanni Martinez And how would your argument work if that "save everyone else" wasn't in quotations? Why do you condone mass murder for personal reasons? Why isn't "the safety of everyone else" as much of a personal reason as "I love my child"?
@Giovanni Martinez Its not selfish because he isn't doing it for personal gain
Evil maybe
But his intention is world peace and maybe he doesn't care for the individuals but he cares about the human race
@Consilium Pacis Why not? He thinks he just saved billions of lives. It’s perfectly reasonable for him to cry for joy considering his mindset.
Not to mention it makes him much more interesting and unique than the “I’m doing the wrong thing for the right reason so I’m dark, conflicted, and brooding all the time” cookie cutter villain.
We all know the real reason comic Ozymandias wasn’t in this movie is because Snyder can’t direct a convincingly happy character to save his life.
@Giovanni Martinez fundamentally, you can see nothing but megalomania in this clip. In the comics when he screams with joy at preventing nuclear war (although as the pirate comic illustrates, it may not have happened) you can at least see his intent was to help people. You can claim he is evil and you may well be right but seeing his joy at helping people adds a layer of nuance
As much of a great movie this is, it is of my opinion too many people think Ozymandias is 'right'. His goal may be 'for the greater good', but whenever we demote the value of people (every individual) to JUST numbers in calculation, we as humanity have already failed. To make the decision FOR people as an intelligent man with immense wealth and resources, does not make him brave, but a coward.
Rorschach's journal proves how fragile Ozymandias' lie is. Just the idea of Rorschach's journal being released to the world is enough to potentially crumble the lie. Making millions of deaths pointless.
You will find no greater evil than someone acting in the name of the greater good under the premise that the ends justify the means.
Its almost like people agree with Ozy just for the sake of it, not because he did the right thing (because he did not). Like you said, the moment it became a subject of numbers, humanity failed
"His goal may be 'for the greater good', but whenever we demote the value of people (every individual) to JUST numbers in calculation, we as humanity have already failed"
Naive platitude. As far as I'm concerned Ozymandias is the anti-hero and Rorsach's the misguided villain who thinks he was doing the right thing but was in fact causing harm.
The coming 2nd U.S. civil war would already have come had it not been for WW2, the Cold War, and 9/11. Common threats make people band together. If supergeniuses like Ozymandian really existed, and were able to trick humanity into banding together and living peacefully at the cost for a few million, I'd call that a bargain.
@@The1980Philip That logic reduces humans to ants in an ant farm.
@@aureate We ARE like ants in an ant farm. Believing otherwise is the height of conceit. Humans are NOT special. Rights are, ultimately, acquired and enforced by might. People just delude themselves into believing they've been endowed such rights by their "creator" because the reality of it is uncomfortable to contemplate.
People often label me as cynical, but I'm just realistic.
I feel like a point that gets missed in this story is that mutually assured destruction didn't happen. Ozymandias' plan prevented a threat that would have resolved itself at the cost of millions of lives.
The comic book universe isn't real life. It's implied the existence of Doctor Manhattan (as his status of living nuclear deterrent and functional God, who also ended the Vietnam war in America's favor) was accelerating the nuclear arms race even worse than it did in real life.
@@HideyoshiKinoshita84 still, it is just implied not shown/experienced. The ambiguity remains, it's not set in stone even if the author himself told it
Yup! I feel like I'm on crazy pills sometimes. He was wrong. He had no faith in humanity.
@@HideyoshiKinoshita84 So nothing in this movie matters because it has no bearing on reality or our world? It's just a pointless, silly little story about funny men in costumes?
@@nonuvurbeeznus795 I think that he's not saying that since it's a comic it does not matter, he's saying that since this is a comic, in this alternate reality, which is different from our earth, things could have gone differently
Snyder's best work to date. Fantastic film
Yes the twist was superb. Thinking through every scenario. and 2:38 is exactly a rorschach test card mimic when the people are dying. Omg. Also the end scene in that room with the lights is EXACTLY from Dr. Strangelove. Also perfection.
@@zonian1966 AND the ‘Atomic clock’ on the wristwatch ‘1 minute to 0 boom.’ I mean wow I have watched this movie so many times and still pick up stuff.
"Killing millions to save Billions, is a necesary crime"
FFS!!!! I KNEW I HEARD A SIMILAR PHRASE BEFORE when Matias Torres said it in AC7. It was a reference to this.
Nite Owl: “Killing millions…”
Ozzy: “… to save billions”
Thanos: *(Sends friend request)*
“You know we can’t let you do that?”
”Do you think I’m a comic book villain?“
-The comic book villain said calmly
I think he's the only comic book villain that actually subverted our expectations. He didn't reveal his entire plan to the heroes, giving them a chance to stop him. He told them everything AFTER it was done.
Now it’s
“Billions Must die to save Millions”
Annnnnd it’s the Usual Suspects Once Again.
I like how the news headline of "WAR?" flies off and dissappears into the explosion literally symbolizing the fear or threat of nuclear war ended with these bombs.
Kill millions to save billions? Welcome to Warhammer 40k universe
The mad, grouchy genius of Alan Moore. Unparalleled.
amazing movie, director and story
And Rohrschach blew it all up by publishing his diary like a little schoolgirl... (pun intended)
finally a villian that knows how to get things done properly
The World Economic Forum is the legitimate real world equivalent of Ozy
It even has the rich egomaniacal German dude at the head
WEF want to keep the status quo , ozymandias want to destroy it , how ar ethey equivalent?
This was the first time I actually thought a villain was smart. He explained his plan after it happened
Thanos did something similar if I recall
Not really, they knew Thanos's plan from his children, they knew his goal. They just couldn't stop him@@joshuacarpenter5997
I actually had a whole class on the Graphic Novel the movie is based on a couple of years ago. Chose it for my mandatory oral exam (we have to do at least one at my institute) and spoke about Dan Dreibergs temporary impotence. First choice for the title was "Talking about Dans Dick", but for some reason, my professor forced me to go with "Impotence as an expression for the lack of agency in the character Dan Dreiberg". Still disappointed.
Sounds like an excellent class- got any course materials left over?
Rorschach was a true "I'll take the red pill" kind of guy. Me, too. I'd rather live in truth and chaos than peace borne of a lie.
“I’m not a comic book villain.” The best example of Veidt’s hubris and lack of awareness lol
He’s not.
"If you're the smartest man on your planet, I'd hate to meet the dumbest."
0:58 I love the little nod to the comics on the panel. S.Q.U.I.D
Anyone notice just before the device went off, the energy swirling around it kinda look like tentacles. Likely a reference to the original comic.
This movie was ahead of its time
The guy who played Richard Nixon was my grade 10 drama teacher! Love you Wiz!
Love the Dr. Strangelove War Room reference
Dammit, I miss when villains were smart enough to be respected.
Watchmen 2 Producer: Killing billions to save trillions.
Watchmen 2 Writer: There's only a few billion people, that doesn't make any sense.
Watchmen 2 Producer: In a few centuries, a few billion will become a few trillion.
Watchmen 2 Writer: But if we kill billions now, there will never be a few trillion in the future.
Watchmen 2 Producer: You lack vision. You're fired. Ooh, I have an idea for Watchmen 3. Killing trillions to save...
Haven't even seen this movie, but the line, "I triggered it thirty-five minutes ago," is so classic.
Fun fact, the name Ozymandious comes from a poem about an ancient king who tried to leave his mark on the world. But after thousands of years all that was left of his achievements was a single statue. Humanity is a species with amnesia and no matter how great his actions may have seemed, time will reduce to a mere myth and humanity will continue to tear itself apart. Congratulations Ozzy, you didn’t save mankind, you just pushed the doomsday clock another century
I like how Ozzy is smart enough to pull this off, but too stupid to realize he only bought humanity a couple of years of peace at best; we will inevitably start fighting and killing each other over something.
Tragedies and the unity that stems from them is temporary, our nature is forever.
That's why in the comic he used an unexplainable octopus monster. He thought a collective shared fear and the need to prepare for something impossible suddenly happening again might just be enough to unify humanity indefinitely. Of course in the comic Ozymandias was not as sure as the movie one that his plan would work. He was actually spurred on by his fear and ego and did not see an obvious solution like the movie version.
@@bdeamon1 Which is why the comic is superior.
The reason USSR and US are much closer to nuclear war in Watchmen is because Manhattan is giving the US an insane ace. He can wipe out the USSR at any moment and is constantly helping the Americans win wars to tip the scales in their favor. He can even stop Soviet nukes in flight. No shit the Soviets are way more paranoid and Americans way more ballsy in this universe. The world would be saved because Manhattan would be blamed for killing people on both sides AND leaving Earth, no longer making the balance of power…unbalanced.
@@HarryK-ld2ed I doubt that
Thanos would be proud....
That's the wrong MCU parallel imo. This is more in line with Secretary Pierce.
@@MrDK0010 'Humanity cannot be trusted with its own freedom'
Personally I think thats a much more engaging motive then Thanos genocide to conserve resources
@@taleoftwowolves74 Indeed, this scene reminds me much more of Hydra than Thanos.
It's unnerving how the whole time when Rorschach and Nite Owl arrived, they were already too late to stop his plan.
"Without condemning, or condoning, I understand"
Something I mentioned below is that the whole point of the 'practical joke' is for the threat to be perceived as coming from outside. In this story Dr. Manhattan is viewed by the entire world as an American operative. That would bring the planet's focus once again upon hating one of their own, not coming together to battle a dangerous alien threat. The graphic novel makes clear Ozy understood the enemy must be thoroughly alien or humanity won't come together. I've always thought this was the only fatal flaw Snyder had in his interpretation.
I always felt like the movie sort of tried to "up the ante" too much by increasing the death count figure, with the whole "OH IT WAS CAUSED BY MANHATTAN INDIRECTLY AND LETS JUST MAKE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE MASSIVE!!" which was way less impactful than how the comic handled it, the squid I think was such an interesting balls to the wall idea, that comes out a little more left field, and though the amount of people dying was more like a city. I believe you felt it more because of the slow build up with the random side characters, the moment when the two characters who'd been in each others company for ages but not paying each other much mind realising they both have the same name, running towards eachother for comfort as the city fucking explodes.
It just hits man.
Same with all the needless inhuman violence in the movie from like Nite Owl/Silk Spectre when the source material is actually known for not featuring much violence and being mostly dialogue.
Zack Snyder directed this film and is known for upping the ante. I agree with you but some people thought the Squid was ridiculous and too random that it breaks off from the more grounded aspects of the story.
The costumed heroes are highly skilled combat fighters but Dr. Manhattan is the first true superhero because he has powers. That's the only thing in Watchmen that's not grounded. Everything in the story revolves around Dr. Manhattan because he's a non human figure.
So Ozymandias showing up with a Squid comes across as bizarre in a bad way. Like Ozymamdias is like a cliché comic book supervillain in that moment whereas before and after the Squid moment he's an actual complex character. That's why some people are happy the Squid is gone.
“I’m not a comic book villain” -A comic book villain, probably.
The movie was better than the comic, there I said it. The main problem with the story, to me anyway, is what happens when the world says "WTF USA, Dr. Manhattan was YOUR guy. YOU'RE responsible for this"?
Villian: "I executed my plan before you even arrived"
Heroes: "No, that's not how you're supposed to play the game"
Criminally underrated actors
this might be the most faithful comic adaptation that we ever get,
the majority of the movie is play-for-play, like the pages of the comic coming to life!
i am very grateful that they chose to alter the ending though,
pinning it on doctor manhattan using energy blasts is much better than the silly giant tentacle monster :P
He did a terrible evil to prevent an even more terrible evil from occurring
This movie is ahead of its time, still is🌧✈️
Time to watch this again for the 3rd time! Love this movie!
My stomach dropped when I was a teen when he said "I did it 35 minutes ago"
"I'm not a comic book villain"
Umm.........
Congratulations! You found the joke! (o:Þ
Ozymandias and Manhattan were the worst ones in this movie maybe the Comedian too. Rorschach got done dirty and Laurie and Nite Owl were good people.