How many ugga duggas is right? In a few decades we have never torqued any wheel on our semi trucks, just toss the 1” impact on them, tighten them till it pretty much stops moving them, there’s a distinct noise the gun makes when that happens, never had any wheel problems on 5 trucks in 40years.
Thank you for your comment. ESCO has a wide range of Torque Wrenches available. For more information please call 1-800-352-9852 to speak with an ESCO Customer Service Representative.
UPDATE...after 30 years changing wheels I had a near wheel off, the problem is, other factors affect torque and clamping force, they make a valid point but they don't mention rusty studds, refurbished rims with paint runs, out of balance/high runout wheels with no regard for opposing the high spots (duallys)....if you start using a torque multiplier, be aware that the impact wrench, while doing the damage, was also over compensating for alot of other sin, so when you make the switch, get and use the studd brush and retorque/nut checks....you may think you are going by the book when in actuality you are, changing the dynamic...YOU ARE NO LONGER UGGA NUGGA COWBOYS, BUT TIRE/RIM RESERCHERS...
Hey WOW man, that's totally awesome, kinda like our fleet, it's just my HAIR that comes off when I can't the nuts off...ya all made me have to get a "torcUP" with a max of 3000 ftlbs. (used of course)
I can't say about other places, but it is here. A good quick place to check would be in the vehicle inspection regulations manual of your state (this is probably on the internet in pdf form) under the wheels section. I've never heard of a cop breaking out a torque wrench and checking your lug-nuts before, but you're almost certainly liable for damages if a wheel comes off your vehicle.
If you have used a 1 inch impact on your fleet and decide to do it right by using a torque wrench @475 lbs. would the lugnuts loosen because the stud and nut have already been over torqued? Have they lost there clamping force? This scares me, because when you have a blow out on the road, your at the mercy of the vendor you send out!
As a school bus fleet tire changer, I have seen a lot of over torqued lug nuts, but I say, unless you're running a garbage truck fleet where they work hard all day, you probably don't need to worry, the ones that I have seen with broken studds was usually most likely due to antisize or lube getting on the threads, as for the road tire changers that come out, they are notoriously overzealous and I would recommend loosening and then relightening, doing every other nut, and then checking them all,,,,I have noticed that if you retorque wheels that are still hot, they tend to move more than if you let them cool some.
...and for some out of balance and or out of round with high spots in the same place with rusty studds and newly repainted rims....that still might not be enough.....
I watched a man change a rear wheel on a 96-passenger crown school bus while on a field trip to Death Valley. He tightened the nuts by standing on the end of a 5-foot cheater pipe with all his weight. Then he bounced on it for good measure. I was dumbfounded. But he was the biggest guy there so I was ignored. That was 40-years ago and I still think about it sometimes.
If he weighed 200lb, jumping on it applied 300lb of force on a 5 foot moment arm for a torque of 1,500 ft-lb which is above the permanent deformation torque unless the threads were rusty or dirty.
I remember these good old days when impacts weren't so strong you could get away with with that, unfortunately there is too much emphasis on power and not accurately,.
I recall getting some literature with my STECK and ACCUTORQUE torque sticks and it mostly depends on the studds diameter, I recall a range of about 450 to 500 for a 3/4 studd....but if you have something like an F series, then it will be less, around 150 ftlbs. (don't take my word, get three that agree)
I don't know if you could call it a school; but there's TIA, Tire Industry Association, which would seem to me to be like ASE, it's really more for your employer to say they told you so, but if you actually do it their way, it's going to slow things down and require some tools and or shop upgrades, notably a inflation cage, remote inflator, a way to shut off the air and a escape route.
We have the MYERS TIRE "WHEEL MAN" witch is made by the UK based NORBAR which was bought by snap on, on the subject of torque multipliers, if I could only have one, it would be my torcUP RP2000 because it can also remove stubborn nuts but could also get you into trouble if you forget to turn the air back down, my favorite is the RP1000 with built-in extension and curved reaction arm.
I'll probably never know how much I over torque the wheel fasteners. With older and newer impact guns as well as the state of the fasteners (rusty threads) it's impossible to judge how many impacts gets right into the range of 450-500ft/lbs. More infuriating is because of someone else's negligence at another shop (so many wheel offs in a short time period) all of us are punished with this time consuming policy of 2 techs and driver sign off as witness to manual torquing.
You're not alone, lm the only one in our shop that even tries, but I think it's about starting a little low (air pressure or power),and then working You're way back up torquing behind yourself with a little margin of safety, if you get the information from the torque stick it may help my old slow impact has to best feel, but it's so heavy and the new light ones want to keep tightening, have been experimenting with the Milwaukee one key but can't recommend yet.
I've seen ruined hubs and wheels from improperly tightening of lug nuts but never in a decade of working in the field have I personally seen a wheel off. You'll crack an aluminum wheel long before you break a steel stud on the hub.
+Byron Lininger (fingers crossed you're far from me and your employer is regional) but seriously, if there's a bearing or wheel seal issue generally a road service will remove the wheels and hub so it can be safely towed in for repairs, are you sure that's not what you are seeing? If a axle nuts are coming off and duals are going down the highway then you're going to have fun times with the DOT.
+Byron Lininger I've had one instance in particular where a set of duals wasn't secured after a brake job and the axle smoked and welded the bearings before the lug nuts worked themselves loose.
+MrDjones55 You are talking about two different defects, Loose lugnuts/broken studs and you loose the tires. Loose bearing nuts and you can loose it all. Bearings welded to the axle are a fun project. Not all companies run aluminum wheels. Any wheel not seated properly work loose....Worn hub pilots or wheels..you know the deal. I have my 35Years in so DOT can sux my balls :)
+Byron Lininger I was more or less just going over the scenarios that I've seen cause problems, most of the time it's user error. If nothing broke we wouldn't have a job though!
That sounds pretty typical, I've been using a torque multiplier in the tire shop, but nobody cares intill they can't get them off, then they think they can just "BARROW " it, and plug it into straight air pressure.....even the reps for them don't want to be bothered with "wheel changing cowboy's ".
That's a good point, and also part of the problem, I remember when I had a checklist to complete, that I couldn't spend that much time on the studds, but when I switched jobs and they started me in the tire shop, the attitude is that anyone can change tires if they make everyone work a few weeks there, and they certainly don't like us trying to tell them (management) anything, they feel like they are the authority and THEY will dictate policy (even if none of them has ever worked in the tire shop) and will just get some young studd that wants to show how fast he can do it. (after he breaks the tools it took you years to collect)
I was gonna downvote...because of how that poor little Caddy got ruined. THen I realized, you guys didnt make the vid. And you just want to get people do understand how critical lugnuts are. Still, its painful to watch. It wasnt the best of Caddys but compared to today, its still a nice car.
It's lb.ft (multiply), so ft.lb is the same thing over. Torque is defined by force multiply with levered distance (perpendicular). Now we got all the physics correct, how about switching to international unit: Newton.meter? Imperial measurement is no longer a well-maintained/calibrated measurement.
Blah blah blah. Who uses a moto wheel 8 hole for a torque video? 475 foot pounds is just a standard OEM torque. On a 33 millimeter nut. Which is shown. 1 blip of a normal gun and you're at 500. Now that you've gone to 500. 475 is no longer the mark. Also tightening with a gun at 400 then letting the vehicle down off the Jack and then torquing to 500 which is standard industry. Is unacceptable. Leave the vehicle in the air and torque to 500 foot pounds. In the air. By hand.
To add to my torque specs... blowing off the Hub and cleaning the pilot pads lightly oiling. The studs. With one drop on the stud or WD-40 spray. Two drops on the nut spinning the 33mm nut washer. Wire brushing and wiping the wheel faces inside and outside. Including the hub center. Never ever ever use never seize. Ever. This just turns the unit into a bearing which will continuously tighten and never torque.
Hey WOW man, all you dudes really know your stuff, but I've been changing tires for so long and listening to music, that I have written new lyrics for Herman's Hermits "kind of hush"...There's a kind of crust..all over these wheels, alright..all over, this town, you can here the sound, of wheels coming loose, it's like a bad dream..so scrape them very carefully, so you won't hear the victims say they hate you, forever and ever..
@@charlienewell7270 I went through a process of dropping the air down to 90psi and then turning it up in 5 psi increments intill I reached the point where the torque wrench no longer turns the nut, problem was, little things would change, psi at compressor affects CFM at the gun, wear on the torque stick, the list goes on...the makers of the torque multipliers claim that they are 100% repeatable and have more cycle life and accuracy than the manual torque wrench. (though personally, I would recommend them as a "second opinion ")
How many ugga duggas is right? In a few decades we have never torqued any wheel on our semi trucks, just toss the 1” impact on them, tighten them till it pretty much stops moving them, there’s a distinct noise the gun makes when that happens, never had any wheel problems on 5 trucks in 40years.
Thank you for your comment. ESCO has a wide range of Torque Wrenches available. For more information please call 1-800-352-9852 to speak with an ESCO Customer Service Representative.
Very good video!
I use the torque Stik with stubnose 1inch impact ,and yes I oil the lugnut flanges.
Safety is everybody's business. India needs this safety tools and safety awareness.
Actually, I have seen a lot of these torque multipliers on eBay coming from India where they can rebuild them.
I have messed up with this 2 times, the first time it was 400$ the second 1500$ I was never taught how to properly do this
I need both of these tools
UPDATE...after 30 years changing wheels I had a near wheel off, the problem is, other factors affect torque and clamping force, they make a valid point but they don't mention rusty studds, refurbished rims with paint runs, out of balance/high runout wheels with no regard for opposing the high spots (duallys)....if you start using a torque multiplier, be aware that the impact wrench, while doing the damage, was also over compensating for alot of other sin, so when you make the switch, get and use the studd brush and retorque/nut checks....you may think you are going by the book when in actuality you are, changing the dynamic...YOU ARE NO LONGER UGGA NUGGA COWBOYS, BUT TIRE/RIM RESERCHERS...
Yep! 30 years as truck driver/mechanic I have never see a tire come clear off!
Pretty common in Russia though
That's cuz once it does. they never come back.
Hey WOW man, that's totally awesome, kinda like our fleet, it's just my HAIR that comes off when I can't the nuts off...ya all made me have to get a "torcUP" with a max of 3000 ftlbs. (used of course)
I can't say about other places, but it is here. A good quick place to check would be in the vehicle inspection regulations manual of your state (this is probably on the internet in pdf form) under the wheels section. I've never heard of a cop breaking out a torque wrench and checking your lug-nuts before, but you're almost certainly liable for damages if a wheel comes off your vehicle.
And would it ultimatily lead to the installer or company responsible for the maintaince of the wheel.
A cop won't. Some dot inspectors will.its very rare I seen it done in California
If you have used a 1 inch impact on your fleet and decide to do it right by using a torque wrench @475 lbs. would the lugnuts loosen because the stud and nut have already been over torqued? Have they lost there clamping force? This scares me, because when you have a blow out on the road, your at the mercy of the vendor you send out!
As a school bus fleet tire changer, I have seen a lot of over torqued lug nuts, but I say, unless you're running a garbage truck fleet where they work hard all day, you probably don't need to worry, the ones that I have seen with broken studds was usually most likely due to antisize or lube getting on the threads, as for the road tire changers that come out, they are notoriously overzealous and I would recommend loosening and then relightening, doing every other nut, and then checking them all,,,,I have noticed that if you retorque wheels that are still hot, they tend to move more than if you let them cool some.
3:34....tire was like "Yup, I did that."
mportklr
That tire was like, yeah I did that ,WHAT!!!! LMAO.
475 ft./lbs. Wow. I didn't realize it was that much.
...and for some out of balance and or out of round with high spots in the same place with rusty studds and newly repainted rims....that still might not be enough.....
What do you call that steel use for. Torquing the lug nut of the truck?
The tire hitting the car was pretty cool
I watched a man change a rear wheel on a 96-passenger crown school bus while on a field trip to Death Valley. He tightened the nuts by standing on the end of a 5-foot cheater pipe with all his weight. Then he bounced on it for good measure. I was dumbfounded. But he was the biggest guy there so I was ignored. That was 40-years ago and I still think about it sometimes.
Wow
that's just dangerous it takes no more than a couple of minutes to torque a wheel properly
If he weighed 200lb, jumping on it applied 300lb of force on a 5 foot moment arm for a torque of 1,500 ft-lb which is above the permanent deformation torque unless the threads were rusty or dirty.
I remember these good old days when impacts weren't so strong you could get away with with that, unfortunately there is too much emphasis on power and not accurately,.
that old refrain "you picked a fine time to leave me loose wheel"
Good one.
That's a great tribute to Kenny Rodgers!
Ten rusty lugnuts and a hub with a bad seal.....
What is the Torque for a light vehicle bus? Could it be the same 475
I recall getting some literature with my STECK and ACCUTORQUE torque sticks and it mostly depends on the studds diameter, I recall a range of about 450 to 500 for a 3/4 studd....but if you have something like an F series, then it will be less, around 150 ftlbs. (don't take my word, get three that agree)
Anybody know of a place to get commercial tire training like a school
I don't know if you could call it a school; but there's TIA, Tire Industry Association, which would seem to me to be like ASE, it's really more for your employer to say they told you so, but if you actually do it their way, it's going to slow things down and require some tools and or shop upgrades, notably a inflation cage, remote inflator, a way to shut off the air and a escape route.
most tire shops and truck stops offer TIA training on video and hands on training
Hola soy de ecuador como consigo está herramienta acá en mi país
Here are a few names to Google..ESCO..MYERS..AME...NORBAR...GAITHER...KENTOOL..torcUP.....RAD...PROTORQUE TOOLS.......
Good video.
Which one is a good torque wrench for semi?
475
We have the MYERS TIRE "WHEEL MAN" witch is made by the UK based NORBAR which was bought by snap on, on the subject of torque multipliers, if I could only have one, it would be my torcUP RP2000 because it can also remove stubborn nuts but could also get you into trouble if you forget to turn the air back down, my favorite is the RP1000 with built-in extension and curved reaction arm.
Why did he torque first then tight with gun?
Your right, that didn't make sense, it was just a visual for what he was saying.
I'll probably never know how much I over torque the wheel fasteners. With older and newer impact guns as well as the state of the fasteners (rusty threads) it's impossible to judge how many impacts gets right into the range of 450-500ft/lbs. More infuriating is because of someone else's negligence at another shop (so many wheel offs in a short time period) all of us are punished with this time consuming policy of 2 techs and driver sign off as witness to
manual torquing.
You're not alone, lm the only one in our shop that even tries, but I think it's about starting a little low (air pressure or power),and then working You're way back up torquing behind yourself with a little margin of safety, if you get the information from the torque stick it may help my old slow impact has to best feel, but it's so heavy and the new light ones want to keep tightening, have been experimenting with the Milwaukee one key but can't recommend yet.
Check your service manual.
I've seen ruined hubs and wheels from improperly tightening of lug nuts but never in a decade of working in the field have I personally seen a wheel off. You'll crack an aluminum wheel long before you break a steel stud on the hub.
+MrDjones55 I've seen many units towed in missing a set. I've changed lots of over torqued/stripped studs.
+Byron Lininger (fingers crossed you're far from me and your employer is regional) but seriously, if there's a bearing or wheel seal issue generally a road service will remove the wheels and hub so it can be safely towed in for repairs, are you sure that's not what you are seeing? If a axle nuts are coming off and duals are going down the highway then you're going to have fun times with the DOT.
+Byron Lininger I've had one instance in particular where a set of duals wasn't secured after a brake job and the axle smoked and welded the bearings before the lug nuts worked themselves loose.
+MrDjones55 You are talking about two different defects, Loose lugnuts/broken studs and you loose the tires. Loose bearing nuts and you can loose it all. Bearings welded to the axle are a fun project. Not all companies run aluminum wheels. Any wheel not seated properly work loose....Worn hub pilots or wheels..you know the deal. I have my 35Years in so DOT can sux my balls :)
+Byron Lininger I was more or less just going over the scenarios that I've seen cause problems, most of the time it's user error. If nothing broke we wouldn't have a job though!
Work at great Dane are torque machine has been down for a moth we are just using the impact
That sounds pretty typical, I've been using a torque multiplier in the tire shop, but nobody cares intill they can't get them off, then they think they can just "BARROW " it, and plug it into straight air pressure.....even the reps for them don't want to be bothered with "wheel changing cowboy's ".
What do you call that torque wrench that use for tightening the truck lugnut
Break back style torque wench.
I would call that a Norbar broke back type torque wrench, available from...MYERS...Norbar..ALL TIRE SUPPLY...ESCO..EBAY...PROTORQUE TOOLS..
AME.....
I am currently using a Stahlwille 600ftlbs that is lighter and faster, but YOU will need weight more than 150lbs.
Get new bolts or remove the rust...
Who is paying mechanic for all this extra work ? Caust savings? Verse labor cause?
That's a good point, and also part of the problem, I remember when I had a checklist to complete, that I couldn't spend that much time on the studds, but when I switched jobs and they started me in the tire shop, the attitude is that anyone can change tires if they make everyone work a few weeks there, and they certainly don't like us trying to tell them (management) anything, they feel like they are the authority and THEY will dictate policy (even if none of them has ever worked in the tire shop) and will just get some young studd that wants to show how fast he can do it. (after he breaks the tools it took you years to collect)
Good!
👌👌👌👌👌
Then you let the customer know that they should be retorqued at 100 miles.
That what they say, but in our fleet, the only thing that has ever budged were garbage trucks.
450/500 and you want a rolling torque 475 is the g spot
Omfg how can I email you
o my wild tire... a lawyers money maker?
I was gonna downvote...because of how that poor little Caddy got ruined. THen I realized, you guys didnt make the vid. And you just want to get people do understand how critical lugnuts are.
Still, its painful to watch. It wasnt the best of Caddys but compared to today, its still a nice car.
If you eat your corn from the other end you'll be save...
watch?v=heiYovdw5Ws start paying attention at around 3:00 there you will see a flying tire.
Torque is measured in lb/ft not ft/lb.
Alan Crook yet everyone will continue to say ft lb, including me. 😁
Look at the setting scale on your wrench.
Torque is measured in nm
It's lb.ft (multiply), so ft.lb is the same thing over. Torque is defined by force multiply with levered distance (perpendicular).
Now we got all the physics correct, how about switching to international unit: Newton.meter? Imperial measurement is no longer a well-maintained/calibrated measurement.
Torque is measured in newton-metre....
Ml
Blah blah blah. Who uses a moto wheel 8 hole for a torque video? 475 foot pounds is just a standard OEM torque. On a 33 millimeter nut. Which is shown. 1 blip of a normal gun and you're at 500. Now that you've gone to 500. 475 is no longer the mark. Also tightening with a gun at 400 then letting the vehicle down off the Jack and then torquing to 500 which is standard industry. Is unacceptable. Leave the vehicle in the air and torque to 500 foot pounds. In the air. By hand.
To add to my torque specs... blowing off the Hub and cleaning the pilot pads lightly oiling. The studs. With one drop on the stud or WD-40 spray. Two drops on the nut spinning the 33mm nut washer. Wire brushing and wiping the wheel faces inside and outside. Including the hub center. Never ever ever use never seize. Ever. This just turns the unit into a bearing which will continuously tighten and never torque.
You use Wesson vegetable oil on 33mm nut flange and stud.LMFAO j/k bro.🤣😂
@@larryalongi3173 30W is the only lube recognized by TIA and you cannot use an air gun to torque, I don't care how good you think you are.
Hey WOW man, all you dudes really know your stuff, but I've been changing tires for so long and listening to music, that I have written new lyrics for Herman's Hermits "kind of hush"...There's a kind of crust..all over these wheels, alright..all over, this town, you can here the sound, of wheels coming loose, it's like a bad dream..so scrape them very carefully, so you won't hear the victims say they hate you, forever and ever..
@@charlienewell7270 I went through a process of dropping the air down to 90psi and then turning it up in 5 psi increments intill I reached the point where the torque wrench no longer turns the nut, problem was, little things would change, psi at compressor affects CFM at the gun, wear on the torque stick, the list goes on...the makers of the torque multipliers claim that they are 100% repeatable and have more cycle life and accuracy than the manual torque wrench. (though personally, I would recommend them as a "second opinion ")