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The problem I have seen with videos like this is the rhino/elbow cleaner doesn't work like real world situations. Look at 95% of rv's the piping doesn't go strait into the tank
it doesnt need to go straight into the tank... it doesnt need to agitate the contents like it did in the video... the purpose of of it is to backfill the tank. with the gate closed, water has nowhere to go but the tank... thats really the point of using it. if its a straight shot, great, but the purpose of using it is to put water back in the tank. Hope that helps. Here's another video where I show how to rinse with it in real life and youll see how much more comes out after a backfill and rinse: ua-cam.com/video/Q7ZJzfimLwg/v-deo.html
thats exactly what happens, you close the valve on the rinser, water will start there and fill back into the tank. I am building a new set up with a real black tank and adding piping to end to simulate a better test. I will bet that the water doesnt get agitated as much but I will also bet that doesnt change the outcome all that much either. We will see I guess.
@@RVTIPSANDTRAVELS I thought the video proved the point - empty the black tank, backfill - drain and more "stuff" comes out. Anyone with a Rhino Blaster sees the proof.
Agreed, i've been watching these tests for the past year+ and this one does the best job so far. My question is though, and maybe this is a new video idea @RVTIPSANDTRAVELS what is the benefit to using the flush gates over the flush port on the RV?
@@RVTIPSANDTRAVELS Awesome, thank you. Another thought that comes to mind, the movement of 'matter' as the overall level hits the top of the outlet pipe; in an actual tank, that level is pretty close to the top of the outlet, i'm wondering how that affects the overall 'matter' movement Vs. the test tank 🤔
I’ve also been using Kleen Tanks recipe for a while. It was probably close to 3 years. After watching a few of your other black tank videos in the past I decided to refill and rinse after I dumped the black tank while on a full hook up just to see if more would come out. I’ll just say that I had to refill and rinse 4 times to get everything out. I do think the Kleen Tank recipe smells good, but this video is spot on about rinsing, especially after I realized the surfactant doesn’t work. I’ve since gone to using Matt’s product also, and along with rinsing, my tanks are clean and empty after dumping. The sad thing is that nowhere does Kleen Tank recommend to rinse the tanks. It’s a shame, a big company like that telling people this will make everything slide right out when it really doesn’t. No wonder they are so busy cleaning tanks.
In the video I watched it did recommend to back fill. Also, it was not advertised that it moves waste better. It advertised that it doesn't allow waste to stick to the walls and more importantly, the sensors. Just watching this short test that was clear to me, the waste breakdown treatment caused more sludge to stick to the walls.
I wont disagree with you that liquifying waste leaves more on the walls, but the surfactant is definitely advertised to move everything out... here is a podcast from a Kleen Tank dealer saying it: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-the-wheel/id1436557600?i=1000660422567 I can find more statements as well, but here is another problem. The Kleen Tank website, which should be their leading source of information, does not mention to rinse.... in fact they say to dump, put some water back in along with the surfactant, and start using the tank again. see for yourself: drive.google.com/file/d/1_PK_1yVSpsSD67hloCMjsIeip6jbHIiI/view?usp=sharing Its on their website, and in case they conveniently decide to change their website after seeing this, I took a screenshot of this. I'm not here to convince anyone 1 way or the other. There are definite problems with both methods, but the massive pile of stuff left in the tank is more concerning than whats on the walls, in my opinion. I will be releasing a sensor video soon. Thanks for watching!
This is a great demonstration of what goes on in the black tank. Treatments aren't as relevant as rinsing the tank several times to get it clean. CLEAN = NO SMELL. As the video infers, just adding a little water to the tank (5 gallons or so) several times and rinsing is the trick; 5 to 10 times. Always store the tank wet; a few gallons)
So glad to watch your videos. Past years I have paid to winterize my trailer and have had mess after mess. Your videos are well scripted, thorough, and comprehensive. I followed all of the instructions to the letter, and I am very proud of myself (age 72). I am confident next season I will have no surprises or added expense in fixing issues that occurred from a poor job. I will also do a thorough rinse as you pointed out. Thank you so much!
Switched from Liquified to the Clean Tank solution and am happy. If you have your tanks cleaned by Clean Tank, they will tell you to backflush you tank after each dump and then add some water before adding the solution. What you don't describe is the amount of material left on the sides of your test tanks. I noticed that the Liquified had more residue on the sides than the Clean Tank solution. That's what the Calgon does, releases the surface tension and helps material "slide" off the sides of the tank and thus, the sensors. Everyone will have their own opinion.
Ross, I also use the Rhino Blaster Pro when I dump my Black Tank. I also use the Black Tank rinse valve on the opposite side of the trailer. When I dump I rinse the tank using the Rhino Blaster Pro to about 2/3 rds of capacity and the tank flush (for about 5 min) alternately, and do it about three times each. After the third rinse, the water coming out of the tank is perfectly clear. when I'm complete, I put about 5-7 gallons of clean water in the tank before traveling or storing and add liquified. Thank you for demonstrating this process of what happens in the tank when dumping. It really gave me a good piece of mind for the method I use.
I love videos like this. The Fit RV guy did this with his clear tank. He actually got a waist recipe from NASA that he used. You and he went to a lot of trouble to prove a point and I appreciate it. I use both methods in my tanks. The surfactant when on the move and an enzyme treatment when at camp sitting still. Our tanks are three years old and I have never had any smell and my sensors always work. I have a built in tank flush, that I use and I'll fill and dump the tank until it runs clear and I see no debris in the clear tube and the sensors read empty. This takes about three tank fills and dumps. I see the surfactant left less stuff on the tank walls than the Liqufied treatment. That's the water softener in the treatment. From watching these videos and my own experience, what cleans the tanks is water, water, water. Use a lot when dumping and rinsing. Keep water in the tanks when storing and use a lot when flushing. I have the advantage to dump my tanks at home so I can do a through cleaning without holding up the line at the dump station. Thanks for video.
I agree that using a surfactant (or just plain dish soap) when moving will produce a different result. I've been using dish soap whether we're stationary or moving for over a year, and even though we full-time, we rarely have any odor from our black tank at all. But I STRONGLY agree that using a backflush system makes a big difference in how clean the tank will get. I did see a Kleen tech recommend these on a YT video, and it seems to be the single most important means of cleaning out a black tank (other than only dumping a full black tank).
This has to be the most complete and comprehensive test of this nature I’ve seen. We are full-time RV’rs, and I have used several products, including both methods you tested. I had high hopes for the Kleen Tank solution, as they provided a believable theory against breaking down the tank contents. After my real world experience, I’ve gone back to the Liquify product and have seen immediate improvement. What was very interesting was your demonstration of rinsing by only filling the tank 20-25%. I’ve been doing 85-90%, and this can take a considerable amount of time and definitely uses more water. I will be trying several smaller flushes for a while to see if my results are typical.
i wouldnt change your flushing method... i really should have filled more when i rinsed, but my thinking at the time was just to show what even a quick rinse would do. if what you're doing is working, stick with it. more tank test videos are coming.
After 6 years of about 150 days a year on the road I’ve learned for me it’s just better to dump my tank and flush it out very well with fresh water several times and I do this about every other day and it takes maybe 10 minutes. I stopped wasting my money on tank treatments especially since I always have full hookups. I’ve also heard Matt’s stuff is the exact same thing as unique tank treatment and he’s just repackaged it under his name. Just take a few minutes everyday or every other day. When I travel I put a full cup of dawn dishwashing liquid in the tanks with a couple gallons of water also.
I've got a 40 gallon black tank. After I dump my tank I put between 7 and 10 gallons of water back into the tank with about 1 cup of Dawn. I live full time and I move the Trailer every 5 to 10 days, so it works good for me.
@@windrider65 RV traveling in the summer for a month. Getting a good rinse on the black tank using a clear sewer hose fitting and leaving 5-10 gallons in the black tank works great for me. I also installed the Blue Streak chemical system and have had better results than treating the black tank.
@@windrider65 I also put some dish soap in our black tank every time after dumping our black tank, and we've had no problems, but I definitely agree that rinsing via a backflush is key to getting a black tank as clean as possible.
Great video and test. I did notice that the surfactant treated tank/bin had less gunk on the sides of the bin after the inital dump than the liquified treated tank/bin. IMO >> this does indicate that the surfactant is making the tank/bin side walls a bit slicker (less friction) which may help keep the tank sensors cleaner (more accurate) and also a bit easier to get the gunk off the walls during the rinse/back flush. I have been using a similar recipe of the Kleen Tank surfactant of 40oz dollar tree pine sol, ~1/4 cup of Dawn diswashing liquid and ~1/2 cup Borax in a 52 gal black tank after every back flush/dump. My black tank has a rinse built in. After the inital tank dump I rinse for 20-30 minutes...just let the water run with the gate valve open. After this rinse the water coming from the black tank is clear/clean (no solids showing). The black tank rinse nozzle(s) are usually positioned on the walls of the black tank in the top 1/3 of the tank (near the top). When you rinse the tanks the water is coming in from the top/above the solids that are left in the bottom of the tank. Water coming from above means that the solids are being forced/pushed out of the tank vs just floating on top of the water as with only using the back flush method. Then I back flush the tank three times, filling the tank each time. I back flush to help get the stuck on toilet paper and other gunk off the walls to try to keep the sensors clean and remove any particles that may cause odor. Lastly I add the Geo-method (homemade recipe as mentioned above) of surfactant prior to a travel day. This allows the surfactant to slosh around a bit. I never have smells and the tank water is clean afterwards (hence no left over solids that dont get flushed out). I use this same method, dump > 3 times back flush > add surfactant to all three of our RV tanks (black, and two grey). I wish the kitchen grey tank had a rinse line in it. The kitchen grey tank can get to smelling worse than the black tank with leftover pieces of rotting/decaying food. I did take the time a while back to put a video camera (scope type) into the black tank by way of the toilet to see if the black tank was actually clean after my dump/treatment method. Surprisingly it was clean with no left over solids. The key is, as you mentioned in the video/test...you have to use lots of water with multiple rinse/back flushes to get all the left over solids moving and out of the tank.
thanks John, the key is definitely rinsing. I do think there is less residue on the sides in the surfactant tank because you dont liquify that stuff, so for anything to stick it was have to stick in total solid form, which wouldnt happen. Im not sure if its the surfactant doing the job, or nothing is sticking because its left in solid form. Does that make sense? A piece of TP sticks to the side in the surfactant tank, so Im thinking it might not have as much to do with the surfactant. Im going to do more tests, I think the mixture with borax will be one of those videos. Ive heard great things about that too... but again, i agree with your final assessment, whatver works for you is great as long as you are backfilling and rinsing.
I use the cascade premium plus DW pods. Fill a juice jug half full with hot water, slip in a pod wait for it to dissolve, shake and ad with more water. If you think about it the DW pods clean all the crap off the dishes, no suds, break down waste and your DW is spanking clean when done. Yes there is hot water and pressure inside but for all my tanks, 4 years now, this is working just fine. Just wish that with all the technology we wouldn’t have to be dealing with this issue.
Thank you very much for your test. I just got back from a 5 day camping trip in South Lake Tahoe CA. I dumped out tank in our Entegra class A motorhome twice, and I used the built-in tank flush about 5 times each time I did the dump. I used Liquified for the first time ever and I was surprised than even after the initial flush, without using the rinse, I didn't see any solid waste coming out. Before using Liquified, I had been using those drop in pouches and they didn't do anything to break down our solids. I'm sold on Liquified.
What a great visual on how solids and liquified solids empty when dumping our tanks. I'm super excited to see the flush port video - I think folks are seriously going to be surprised at how LITTLE they do and that the reverse flush adapter from camco and valterra are really the way to go for tank maintenance.
With a new RV (and black tank) I have been debating and researching which method to use. Best video, experiment, and demonstration by far!! Thanks for the visual and helping my decision making! Keep the videos coming!
Love that you give Kleen Tank a good rating for cleaning tanks, despite the mixture not working. I had them clean a motorhome tank a few years ago and they were very professional. I agree the mixture doesn’t work though. Everything you did in this video was very realistic and fair. Well done, Ross.
@@RVTIPSANDTRAVELSfor someone like me this is exactly what I need. My hubby absolutely hates a lot of RV tip videos because they ‘waffle on and on before getting to the point’ When I share yours he watches them because you get to the point straight away and you present the facts as they are. Thank you! 🙏🏼
EXCELLENT! This is the closest to realistic comparison of 2 products we have used while full-timing in our RV (6 months with the DIY Surfactant solution and over a year with Liquified) - our experience agrees with your much more observable investigation. btw - we do backflush our gray tank water into our black tank 3-4x at each dumping (55gal black/100 gal gray tanks) BTW - I shared this on one of my FB groups and got a suspension for the day ... was so impressed with your video I forgot there is no sharing of outside content in that group ... oops. lol. Thank you again
In my 9 years of RVing I have always just flushed the tanks repeatedly. I have never used any products in my tanks and I also use household toilet paper. Never had any be problems.
Ross i think you hit nail on head. I personally use Kleen tank method with extreme flushing. Im almost always a FHU site and my black is only 30 gals. I also have this rule with using the Kleen tank method. I always after completing emptying and flushing put solution back in tank then fill to 1/3 full. I actually used my inspection Camara to see if the tank has gotten build up and it looks brand new for most part. So even when i start using my camper while camping i start out with a good amount of water in tank. Also i do short trips. Pretty much a weekend warrior. No more than 4 nights / 5 days. Being that the tank isnt very larger my family tends to fill it by end of day 2 of use. Just my experience and 2 cents.
KT's argument is that RV tanks are not septic tanks and thus enzyme treatments are not needed. Point taken - we're not keeping stuff in there long term. HOWEVER, we are usually dumping into a septic system at a campground or park. If I was a park owner, I wouldn't want anything going down my dumps that would upset the balance in my septic system and it sure seems like the Pine-sol and Calgon would do just that.
@@user-bb2uo9gg4p Any well designed septic system will not pass sludge to the field. That is the purpose of the septic tank to separate and digest solids and settle out particulates from the effluent. If suspended solids are exiting the tank, you have a bad tank.
@@thecherryrvlife interesting point and to that point let me add and ask isn't that what a septic tank at a campgrounds job is? to break down and liquefy solids? To kleen tanks statement that our tanks are holding tanks and not septic tanks once they go into the campgrounds septic tank it's going to do its job.. so my question is... how is dumping unliquidfied solids throwing off the balance..? I'm just trying to understand what exactly do you mean by the balance are you referring to the fact that adding solids causes the tanks balance to be off because there's both liquified and unliquidfied substances at once? If so.. does that mean that our holding tanks are supposed to do the septic tanks job before they go into the tank that is responsible for that job? Please note my intention is not to start an argument but just have an opinion on your statement and just want to try to understand further and or maybe I just misunderstood what you meant perhaps
I am glad you posted this video. I bought calgon and pine sol. I will be using the calgon in the bath. And pine sol to clean. I will continue to use liquified and unique. I use liquified when it is hot. Because unique gets a bit stinky in the heat.
Great job Ross.! Hard to argue with the facts. Appreciate you taking the time for this. Looks like we are on the right path from the beginning from watching your black tank education video. We were new two years ago, and watching your videos before we received our coach, we have never had an issue at all. :) Thank you!
One thing I notice is that the Liquify side had a lot more "scum" stuck to the sides of the tank. This is the type of thing that causes sensors to misread. I use the Kleen method but I rinse my black tank until the discharge runs clear. I also go to at least half (but usually 3/4) full each rinse being VERY careful not to overfill and cause a massive problem. I also run the rinse as I'm dumping the black tank. So far so good.
I wont disagree with you, the test was done fairly and I will continue to stay objective about the results, regardless of what I personally use. There is more left on the walls of the tank after the first dump in the Liquified tank, absolutely agree. However, this video is not about sensors, that video will be coming later... *I think the massive pile of waste left in the bottom of the tank that this surfactant is supposed to remove is much more of a concern than a little bit of paste on the walls that will most likely come off with a higher volume rinse.* That pile is going to build up MUCH quicker than the side walls, and you're going to have MUCH bigger problems in a MUCH shorter amount of time if that is not removed. I will be doing a sensor video soon. Remember, I'm looking for the best overall solution for myself and other RV'ers, regardless what the answer is, but this test was not about sensors. Sure, after using the surfactant, the sensors may work a little better after the first dump, but thats not what this test was about... it was to determine what got more out of the tank, and while the results were not drastically different, the surfactant clearly lost. Additionally, I have no issue with Kleen Tank either, in fact from what I've heard, I believe they do a great job of cleaning tanks, and I mention that in the video. But this test was to determine if their surfactant recipe claim works (to "make everything slippery so it slides out"), and it clearly does not. Stay tune for the sensor video, and thank you for watching!
Your flush process to clear output is exactly what we do. And once we discovered it, we realized how many folks never really fullyclean their tanks. We use BORAX (Surfactant) after each flush of the black tank. We leave about 6 to 10 gallons with approx 1/2 cup of Borax in the tank after the clear flush. This sloshes around as we drive from A to B with the rig. We live full time on the road, and this has prevented smell. We never even look at the lights, as the sensors were pretty much non-functional when we bought our 2018 Coachmen class c. The drains tell you when your gray is full, the sound of stuff going into the toilet tell you when it needs to be dumped. Plus, we always dump our tanks prior to each move, which is approx once or twice a month. Gray is dumped when it fills.
@@grobeg we’ve been using the Geo Method for a while now and it seems to be the best “solution” for us. Our latest mix is using Borax rather than Calgon. Lots cheaper and should work the same. We’ve also been using Zep Pine Cleanser rather than PineSol. Again cheaper, and actually has pine oil as an ingredient.
very interesting idea, thanks for sharing... I think part of the reason the solids in the surfactant tank didnt stick was because they were solids, and not necessary because of the calgon. if you notice, a piece of toilet paper sticks to the side of the surfactant tank. ill be doing more tests and continuing to make the test as realistic as possible, though they will never be spot on. even if I used the real "stuff", there are so many tank shapes and designs that would affect how they drain... I do think with more testing we will at least get a good look at what is generally happening.
Great video Ross! You are so thorough and careful with your test methods. And the production quality of your video is stellar as always. I've been RVing for 30 years and used the liquify method. We just changed our trailer - a four-year old used model - and I had Kleen Tank come out and do their thing. I also started using their mixture and Rhino back flushing as they recommend. I have found that the ONLY way to get solids completely out of my tank is to go back to what I did with our first trailer many years ago - and that is connecting the good ol' Camco spray wand and bringing it inside to spray/flush through the toilet opening. I would back flush with the Rhino as Kleen Tank recommended as many four times and still had solids in the tank. The built-in black tank flush does NOT get the tank clean either. Here's a GIANT problem for me: when we camp at a state park with no sewer hook-up at the site, I don't have the luxury of flushing the tank three or four times. There is always someone in line behind me waiting to dump. I don't have a dump at home, so I can't clean it when I get back. So it stays dirty until I get to the next campsite with full hook up. Also, I have noticed that the Kleen Tank formula does not control odors as good as the older formulas with formaldehyde. I do realize that it's almost impossible to get tank treatments containing that chemical nowadays. I bought Pine Sol in bulk to save money, but I'll probably go back to the liquify method when that's used up.
Great test! One thing that I'm going to try based on your experiment is to turn on my factory installed black tank rinse as I drain the tank. It seems that it is important to get the material in the tank agitated so that it is not a single floating mass. Breaking the material apart aids in the draining of its contents.
I always flush my tank multiple times until I see the waste water coming out clear. Also in my previous trailer that didn't have a tank flush hook up I would use a gutter cleaning spray wand and put it directly down the toilet hole and twist it around to spray down all the walls of the tank, worked perfectly.
I have been using the Kleen Tank solution for about 2-1/2 years now with great results. My tank sensors all still work. I would like to see your test with sensors because it looks like the Liquified might coat the walls more. I think the surfactant helps with the sensors. At least it does with my use. Great video.
thank you... my sensors still work by just doing 1 - 30 gallon rinse. you can see this around the 4 minute 30 second mark in this video: ua-cam.com/video/Q7ZJzfimLwg/v-deo.html
I use the GEO method similar to what you tested. But I also use a conditioner to break down the solids. I personally found the method works for me. I do backflush 2-3 times if time allows at the dump station. I'll also use a wand to wash the tank regardless if I was able to backflush or not. Great video
That is the main takeaway that I received from the video, I rinse 5-10 times, about 5 gallons per rinse and the tanks gets clean with no smell issues. Storing the tank wet is also key.
i believe that is the key also. one thing to consider though is that not everybody camps at sites with hookups, so rinsing multiple times at a dump station may be necessary to remove all solids, and sometimes thats not possible, or should I say "considerate" if there is a line of RV'ers behind you waiting at the dump station.
I also thought about this Rick, it seems to me if you keep a vapor barrier in your toilet and use a lot of water, you should not have really any odors. I've never had odors and Ive used a few different treatments over the years.
@@RVTIPSANDTRAVELS well you spent all that time building those tanks. I wonder how many times you have to rinse to clear out the tanks is it three is it five is it 10 that’ll be another good video!!!!
We are two years into our first RV. When we would dump I noticed that initial rush of solid waste then just liquid, for the most part. We would flush the tank 3 times at each dump from the toilet down, each dump gave us the same results. It has been that way this entire time. I am now going to try the "Liquified" treatment and add the Rhino blaster to the plan. I just ordered both they will be here on the 19th, we head out for 7 days on the 21st, we'll see how this works out. Thank you, I appreciate your "scientific method" approach to so many of your videos.
@@RVTIPSANDTRAVELS I used the Rhino blaster for the first time today and I really like it, I put in the "Liquified" treatment today as well, know in a week how that works out. Thanks again.
Great video!! I also found that using an additive to break down solids along with 2-3 flushes work best. Both my black and grey tanks are never empty after the flushing routine. I always leave about 3-5 gallons in each tank between rv usages. When I am hooked up to a sewer connection, the first thing I do is drain and one flush. Then I add some water and Liquified treatment. I have yet to have issues with either tank sensors, draining or smells. The visuals of this video certainly support my routine! Thanks!!!
I've seen a few of these demonstrations now. There is one thing that is not a spoken or used implemented factor. An actual vacuum between the long vent and the sewer drain. When I flush out, I ensure that I have the tank full of water past the toilet inlet to water seal and strengthen the vacuum to aid in draining. I've witness this and it does work the best, a true vacuum, not just a lid open to watch. Also, I did go through the pyramid and full tank of solids (little water) phase when I started. An Unforgettable Stinky Lesson! I'm Thankful for that $20 spray hose to shove down there and help break it up and flush out. I had to use it only once. And that is also the keyword here, flush out. On average, I flush tanks around every 3rd to 4th day - depending (30 gallon tank). And, I flush through about 6 times. Yes, I fill up on initial dump (1), then refill and flush out up to 5 more times (or more if needed). I haven't had any problems since. OH! Yeah, from another video I watched - Use LOTS of Water. Water is your best friend.
you're not ever creating a vacuum in the tank, there is a vent pipe that goes from the top of the tank to the top of the RV. the vent caps are on the top of the RV, thats what I put on the lids. waste tanks are always vented so they dont expand and rupture. the only way to create a vacuum is to seal of the roof vents, which would be a bad idea.
@RVTIPSANDTRAVELS The vacuum I speak of can be demonstrated with a straw and some soda. Cut a small hole in the middle of the straw, and you lose the true vacuum seal of vent in, drain out, plus gravity. It's all about force movement.
@RVTIPSANDTRAVELS This was trial and error. I make sure I turn off the water pump, and I'm using the RV park provided water only. Then I removed the shower head from the hose and saved the grommet so as not to lose it in any of the drains (that would be bad). Then, after the first initial drain, making sure I watch what drains out - call it quality inspection, I immediately fill the tank back up, but I fill it passed the toilet closure to water seal from air intake. It's the key component to the vacuum strength. After several fill and drain processes, I get clear water when draining. Oh, yeah, my apologies, I should have mentioned; track the time it takes to fill the tank (empty and full) and track it again when draining. The difference in those minutes for each will let you know if you have a good flush out or if there are still major solids stuck in there. That difference of that time frame is representing the solids taking up space inside the tank (or no solids) instead of the flushing water.
if there was a complete vacuum in the tank while dumping, the water would flow out much slower. this is simple physics. Im still confused what you mean by strengthening the vacuum. Eliminating the ability for air to return will make things exit much slower. This is here in this video at the 2:23 mark ua-cam.com/video/tApcUadZt_Q/v-deo.html
Good video. I use a commercial RV mix to break it down. I've been though a few brands and have found one that works well for my small black tank. The surfactant mix isn't an option, maybe for gray water tank. About 9 gal is the size of the black tank in my Scamp. I always do multiple tank flushings for better cleaning. I've been using it for 12 years. The only time I had a problem was at a certain RV park that had a "dump valve bandit" who would open dump valves on RV's.
When I'm camping i usually rise one or two times but before i move to my next campground i give it a good backflow like the one you use, and i fill the tank up to about 80 percent of water and then I release the valve, and one of the last rinse i use dawn dish soap, great video.
Great video. About two years ago, I started using borax and dish soap, then just borax and we've had zero issues, smell or otherwise. I use the black tank flush until it runs clean then leave 3-4 gallons behind and ziplock snack bag amount of borax to the tank. That's all the more I do and we've had no issues, even after leaving the trailer sit for a year after surgeries. So far so good, aint broke aint fixing it. 100%, flushing is the key, and having a built in sprayer is even more magic IMNSHO ;)
Ross I start my tank flushing system before I pull my black tank dump valve. Seems to agitate the contents and provide the liquid needed to move the solids while dumping. Seems to clean the tanks well.👍
John, I thought about talking about this too, the video was already done, and I figured I made the point enough, but you're right on with that idea my friend.
Same here brother. I am adding water as I am flushing. I do this three times and my tanks are pretty clean. It takes time but I feel better about leaving my trailer sit a few months.
Great job on this video and very helpful. I have the Rhino Blaster Pro and have had great success with it. One thing I noticed is how the solids stayed in the first dumb. My mind right away thought, what if I added water to the tank on the factory RV black tank fill as the dumbing was going on? Would that keep head pressure in the tank AND mix the solids at the same time to flush out the tank? Sure, the second back flush with the Rhino Blaster Pro would be needed. Just a thought. Great video and thank you for all the great information you share.
Your video confirms my belief that having the agitation of the tank flush has the most effect on getting the tank cleaned out. As you show waste tends to create a mat that is hard to move and breaking it up as the tank flush or your back fill did is the key to getting it out of the tank.
We’ve been full timing for 7 years. All 3 of my Airstreams have had a black tank rinser. My method has been to open the valve with the rinser running. Once the tank capacity is reduced to 5%, I close the valve and fill the tank with fresh water to 80% capacity then open the valve again. If the exiting water is not clear after the second fill, I’ll do a third. Watching this video has confirmed my method as an effective way to keep my black tank clean. We use RV Digest-It. It works better than Happy Campers and Valterra Odorlos.
Very informative video! We’ve been using the surfactant treatment for a while… the biggest thing I want to avoid is the sludge from the black tank. What has been proven consistently is that water will make all the difference and flushing with plenty of water is the best thing. Thanks for all of the hard work and detail you put into this demonstration. 🙏🏽
I rince my black tank at mid week 3 to 4 times when I'm camping. I unique digest to liqify with 4oz in my 40gal tank. I will dump it as I turn on my rinser. Now what I do were I find most people don't do is I fill it until it almost going in the toilet. Then I dump .I do this 3 to 4 times I even have it on my phone and time how long it will fill it. I just keep an eye on it with a flash light. This is extreme for most people but my tank is crystal clear. One big thing I do is once I go thru this process I put 4oz of unique digest and 3 to 4 gal. before I leave the campground to let it slosh around on my way home. I have a drain at home for my septic and drain it with my wand and rinser and that comes is basically colored water and keep rinsing until clear. Maybe 2 to 3 times At the campground il rinse after dumping 2 to 3 times. At the end of the week before I leave I rinse maybe 2 times But rinsing like you said is key.
Great video, Ross, well done. I think the bananas are a great idea, versus just dog food!!! I have to rinse/fill my tank @4-5 times with the integrated tank rinse if I want to get clear water to come out. Rinsing is essential, no matter what treatment one uses! Again, thank you, Ross, love your videos!!
Amazing demonstration. Thank you so much. I actually use a mix of both method. I know I may just be wasting money, but I just have been doing it that way. Mainly because I just didn’t know what was best so I figured both.
Thanks for the tremendous amount of effort you put into this vid. It's taught me that I should make sure there's some liquid left in the tank between trips so that anything left on the bottom breaks down. I installed another valve at the discharge of my tank (where the cap would go). This allows me to back-flush using the grey tank and it's amazing how much more I get out of the black tank. I even get stuff out that the built in spray flusher leaves behind. It's also nice to have the extra valve in case the other valves fail.
thanks Scott, the real outcome of the video (to my surprise) wasnt even about the treatments... it just proved rinsing is the most important thing. more videos are coming!
@@RVTIPSANDTRAVELS Yes indeed, rinsing is the key. I wonder what the method I described would look like. I tend to get a lot more TP out when I use the volume of the grey tank to rinse the black.
We use the Liquified treatment. We have two macerating toilets so, the grind is much smaller. Which may mean another video. I do back flush with the gray tank, but just a bit. We do have a flush system built in to the back tank and it does seem to get a lot out after we get to the bottom the second time.
Great video, I’ve had my rv for 2 years and have religiously flushed my black tank at the end of the camping trip 3 or 4 times plus used the black tank flush line to help achieve a good flush and when I say I was shocked is an understatement when after 2 years, I bought a flush king and it was like I wasn’t flushing very much in the past. The first time with flush king, the stuff just kept coming and it took a good 12 to 15 (not kidding) flushes to remove what I thought I was getting in the past and now I use it in the middle of the camping stay and at the end of the stay. Before you ask, there are inexpensive water flow meters to put on water hose to prevent blowing out the top. My tank is 30 gallons and I only go up to 25 gallons on the tank in fear that I will overfill the tank. I have use all of the products that is supposed to break the solids down and all that done was accumulated at the bottom of the tank except the liquid type but in my opinion none of it works so I just use odor control solution. Good luck.
Great test! With regard to Kleen Tanks, unless you're having a problem with your black tank (i.e., it's clogged and won't dump), I don't see much point in having it basically pressure washed. I just don't care if the black tank is never squeaky clean because it's going to get dirty again the very next time that you use it. Dumping the black tank only when it's full AND backflushing it thoroughly will, in my experience, keep you from having any real problems. I've used various treatments and currently use dish soap, but these are only supplementary to the above.
I'd like to point out that not all rv tank dumps are a straight shot back into the tank. In that case you are likely just filling the tank from the bottom and floating the contents up again. Nice demo and good points made.
correct, its really just about refilling so you can dump. I promise, more will come out. I do it on my actual rv in this video and you can see more come out: ua-cam.com/video/Q7ZJzfimLwg/v-deo.html
great comparison video, ive used rv digest it and now use the kleen tank mixture except I use fabuloso and calgon laundry detergent liquid softener. Part of me wonders if the beads don't do enough softening of the water solution to make a difference. I always assumed the laundry detergent mix would be better since a laundry machine uses lots of water similar to a black tank. I also go a little heavier on the calgon mix. that said my issues are never with the black tank ironically.... its the grey tank that actually begins to smell, the crap that comes out of the grey tank is worse then the black tank honestly. I might make my homemade mixture with liquified as well as kleen tanks recipe for double the power lol sometimes ill toss some rv digest it in the tank with the calgon fabuloso mixture and haven't had any problems. My black tank sensors all work, it's my grey tank sensors that always read 3/4 full unfortunately.
if you have some down time, fill the gray tanks up completely, add it a little dishsoap, and let them sit for a few days. just like you would to remove gunk from a pot or pan. dump them, rinse a few times, and see what happens. i know of others who have done this with success.
I always rinse my tank when I dump. The two times I stayed at a campground where rinse water wasn't available I ended up with clogs and issues the next time I tried to dump. My black tank flush is on the far side from the outlet, so it's pushing everything towards the exit, and I generally fill half to two thirds full before dumping the second time, there's so much that still comes out. If there's not a line I'll close the dump valve again and let it fill a bit more for a second rinse, which is usually enough to get the water running clear, or at least close to clear. I've been using Unique's pods, which seem to be pretty similar in performance to Liquified, and they're so much better than the Camco TST pods I started out with. I'd be curious to try both the surfactant and an enzyme/bacteria product. It seems like the surfactant and pine sol do a pretty good job keeping the smell down and I do occasionally get some odor when it's really hot out and it's been over a week.
I appreciate the effort you invest in your research, videos and the factual explanations you provide. I also use the Canco back flush attachment but I determined that having a Black Tank Flush option on your camper is a real plus. I also have needed to use the spray wand down the toilet after our grandkids have visited.
We’re on our second season with our travel trailer. I decided to try not using either a liquefier or a surfactant and just use lots of water the first time we camped. When the drain port plugged up it became apparent that this method didn’t work. I now use a tank liquefier treatment, dump a full pail of water down the toilet when I’m draining it and use the built-in black tank flush if the water hose has a threaded fitting (often they don’t). When heading home I add a few gallons of water to the black tank and toss in a couple of dishwasher detergent pods to slosh around on the return trip. At home I drain the tank again using a five gallon pail (dumping the contents down a toilet with multiple trips) then use a plastic flushing wand on a hose down into the tank through the toilet and blast the tank in all directions until the water coming out is essentially clear. Unless you’re on a fully serviced site doing multiple flushes at the dump station is usually not a good idea because often there are others waiting. Whatever way you do it nothing beats multiple flushes with a bit of water pressure.
On a recent camping trip, the campers next door had Kleen Tank come to his site to clean the tanks. He gave us a heads up that there may be some smell. I guess they need to do the service where there is a dump as they don't have the means to collect the waste. It took the Kleen Tank tech about an hour to service the tanks. It looked like they use a pressure washer with special attachments to wash the inside of the tanks. The was no smell or mess and very little noise. The machine used was electric and didn't make much noise. At first I thought this was kind of rude to do this at a campground around other campers and not at a dump station. But it really wasn't a problem. We hardly noticed the tech. I guess it's a good service if you haven't taken care of your tanks or purchased a used RV and don't know the condition of the tanks. Our neighbor said he was cleaning them before putting the trailer in storage.
Thanks for putting in the time to bring this demonstration to rv'ers. I have just recently starting using this recipe, and like others, I too have to do multiple back flushes. I'll definitely go back to the liquefied solution after watching this. Great job!!
what really helps is the pressure your rinsing. it makes all the solids mix with the water, like in a blender and the key is to drain fast before they stop moving.
Great video, with an excellent testing protocol. As a former middle school science teacher, i really appreciate your thoroughness and detailed explanation. I know that you mention planning sensor testing. Please also consider a comparison between the back flush device you used and the built-in black tank rinser. The rinser has the advantage of being used while dumping the tank initially.
Thank you for doing this test to help us who love full time in our RV. Having an RV that has a black tank flush system, jets that help clean the edges of the tank, has helped with clearing the solids out of my black tank. Seeing this test in real life really helps solidify 😂 that a black tank flush helps clear out the unwanted solids. Another video that I watched that I have seen that I think helps is before moving from site to site is dumping a bag of ice into the tank from the toilet right before move day to help break up anything on the sides of the tank. Especially if you do not have a black tank flush system. Thank you again and God bless your family. You have helped us learn the RV life. ❤
Chris, since you full time try rinsing the tank several times when emptying. Use 5 gallons each time and rinse 5-10 times and you will have a clean tank. This is easy to do since you have a jet system. You may decide to quit using additives all together! I use borax and pine cleaner.
Thanks for a great demonstration. We have a 9 gal black tank in our pull behind.( yes, only 9 gal) I have been using an enzyme treatment (different brand) and we have been rinsing, but I think we need to rinse more.
Great video, I was actually surprised to see the differences. I think if I were to do anything different, it would be to find long shallow totes that more accurately replicate a black or grey tank. I think the results of the first dump would mirror the video, but it would be interesting to see how the backfill cleared a longer tank where the pressure of the back fill wasn’t as strong.
love your picture! i agree the different shapes of the tanks will probably produce slightly different results, but not all black tanks are shallow either. more videos are coming! amzn.to/3SderSc
Great test and video! My typical routine is to use the Kleen Tank recipe + Unique or Liquified + 2-3 flushes at every dump. Your video seems to support that regimen. Thanks a lot!
I agree I've been RVing for over 30 years full time for 8 years and I only use RV-Digest It and use my built in flush 2 or 3 times and my tank is as clean as it possibly can be. I can say you can see the clean black bottom in my tank through the toilet after dumping, all the proof I need. Great video to let people that don't know. 😊✌️
Fantastic video, as usual. I've tried several treatments over the years and have settled on Liquefied for a while now. I did try the KleenTank recipe, two gallons worth. The first thing that jumped out at me is that the calgon settled out so quickly. I had to really shake it before use. If it's settling in my jug, I'm sure it's settling in my tank. The other problem is my sensors always worked, that is until I started using the KleenTank. Needless to say, I'm back to Liquefied. Two of my my three sensors have started reading correctly.
Great test, thanks. It appears to me that there is much more residue stuck to the top of the "liquified" tank walls. I wonder if applying the surfactant and completely filling the tank with water would coat the walls, and then the liquified would be more effective.
im not worried about the residue. im worried about the massive pile of stuff left at the bottom of the surfactant tank, but I do have more videos coming testing the sensors that we'll be adding.
I was impressed with your clear planning and controlling variables for the tests. I have a macerator toilet and macerator pump in my coach, so I totally believe in liquifying. I was also happy to see that the extra time I am taking to flush the black tank on every dump. Sadly, I just don’t think that this area of RV engineering is advanced enough. Why do not we have middle bottom release valves? Wouldn’t let gravity to help insure we maximize drainage? I assume that it would require more head room etc, but we should try to design better. Lastly, the sprayers that flush black tanks need to be better engineered too. I think build up and heat ruins the effectively of the sprayers over time and therefore almost defeats the purpose. Wish I could see inside, but I cant and I am told by flushing services that they won’t to mine because of the macerator, which I think is BS, but I don’t argue. Thank you so much for sharing! 😅
Just curious if the shape and depth of the test tanks actually portray RV tanks, which are much slimmer by design. Seems that a longer, slimmer tank would drain better. There is no question the more water the better the result. Great demonstration that accurately depicts gravity type holding tanks and emphasizes tank flushing is paramount! Great video.
Jason, I think the shape of the tank will definitely affect how it empties, but black tanks are not always longer or slimmer in real life. Here's an picture of one similar to these bins: amzn.to/4d44sXA I think I'm going to do some research, find around what the "average" shape of a black tank would be, order something similar to that then do more tests... its very difficult to create a perfect test on black tanks, even when using the real "stuff" there are so many other factors like tank size, shape, personal diets, temperatures, etc.... no matter what you do, this will never be a "perfect" test, but with viewer input i plan on doing more tests, and at the end of the day, i think we'll have at least a VERY good idea of what works best to get things out, and keep things clean and working.
Excellent demonstration. I noticed the rhino was hooked up to direct angle to tank. My rig has a 3 foot pipe and 90 degree angle. Will this lessen the back fill pressure from the rhino blaster?
probably a little, and im doing more tests with actual black tanks and piping off the exit valve, so we will see. however, the goal is to get water in the tank... the agitation may help, but im guessing the more important thing is getting water in there to flush.
Very good visual demonstration on what happens draining the tank. My only concern is that thenway you uave this setup, the rhino blaster is spraying water directly into the tank making for very nice agetstion inside. On my camper however, the way the drain pipe is designed, there is an 90 degree just before where the drain hose hooks up. I think this would take away the vast majority of potential agitation inside the tank. On the other hand, it still makes for an easy way to refill/flush the tank a second or third time without having to go back inside.
thanks Mike, the agitation may help a little, but the purpose is just getting water in the tank. once you dump a 2nd time, the agitation (or lack of) is minimal in producing the same results. I'm building more tanks with additional piping on the end, more videos to come, hope you check them out.
James from The Fit RV did something similar but with many more iterations. Looking more at how tank cleaning solutions, ie tank sprayers, blasters, etc. the end result is that blasters may not work in every case because of the plumbing between the point where it's joined and the actual tank. He also tested the ice/dawn method and a few others In the end, a built in tank sprayer that acts like a rotating shower head was most effective at removing all solid waste.
i watched all those videos, he did a great job with them. I actually referenced them in another black tank video I made. I will be doing more tests with all the standard equipment along with some of the treatments that werent available back when he made those videos.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge, tips and tricks. Black tank maintenance is not a glamorous part of RVing but it is a must. I enjoy watching and learning from your videos. Thanks again
I know the test isn’t for odors, but I will say from personal experience that Liquified is terrible for odors. It’s good for liquifying solids, but if you’re looking for something that kills odor, there is nothing that beats Happy Camper. Great video
I will add to that... the scent of the surfactant is strong, even after the tank was full. however, it smells like an amusement park bathroom after it had just been cleaned. thats the best way I can describe it, very antiseptic, but not something I would want lingering in my RV. I havent ever had odors with the few treatments I use, but i think thats a combination of keeping my tank clean and always keeping a healthy amount of water over the ball valve as a vapor barrier. Thanks for commenting my friend.
We usually start our black tank off with Happy Camper and then add Liquified if the odor becomes a problem during long boondocking stays and this method works well for us. We also use Liquified in our gray tanks and that works well too.
Thank you for doing a well ordered and visual test. After years of using Happy Camper (one brand) I just tried the PineSol/Calgon method on my last 2 trips after cleaning my tank extensively to start the change - now my sensors are back to being clogged and useless and had to flush 4-5 times to get most of the solids out. Going back to stuff that break downs the solids again. Thanks, you video helped me make an informed decision.
This was excellent. I was surprised at how much waste was left behind and both of the tanks by simply draining. My next request is that you do the same or a similar demonstration, but using an installed tank back flush as are found on many RVs rather than one that goes through the hose. On my RV, the path between the bottom of the tank and the hose outlet has many twists so I am not sure that an external hose would do much good. But I do have a built-in tank spray that seems to do a good job. I usually leave it running for about five minutes, after the tank is empty, or until the water runs clear. I wonder if there’s still is being left behind and I should run even longer!
i will be doing more videos... i think the black tank flush port turned on while the tank drains are open to the sewer is probably only running water across the top of everything. So while it may look clear coming out, it doesnt mean there isnt stuff in the tank. many more videos are coming.
i wont disagree that the pine sol has a very strong odor, unfortunately to me it smells like the bathroom at an amusement park in the summer that was just cleaned. its pretty pungent. the liquified has a surfactant built in too.
I have not read all the comments, so my question comes from the tank rinse nozzles that have been plumbed in to aid in rinsing. How effective are they and what is your feeling towards them. I have one and use on the last day of our trips. I do add more water to help rinse the tank when I need to dump, but not a full rinse. A full rinse comes at the end of our trip before we head home or to our next destination. Thanks for your tests and info you provide, a happy camper.
Many have asked this question... remember the rinser attachment is used to put water back in the tank. Depending on the specific RV sewer pipe plumbing, it may not be a direct shot back into the black tank, so the water in the tank may not be as agitated as it was in the video when backfilling. The agitation is not really what we are trying to accomplish. Yes, its a bonus if it moves things around in the tank a little, but the real point is to just get water back in that tank so you can flush it. So, using a black tank flush port, a 5 gallon bucket to pour water into the tank, or the rinser to backfill the tank will all do what we really need to happen: get water back in the tank so we can flush and rinse. The nice thing about the rinser attachment is its quicker than the flush port, easier than the bucket method, and you can rinse your gray tanks as well. Hope that helps!
Didn’t read all the comments…sorry. I use the Sani Flush on the side of my rig not the rhino Blaster. Any significant difference? I would think not. Thanks for the content, great channel!
In our toy hauler rental business, we always used liquifiers (the blue stuff that comes in packets, supposedly biodegradable). We had about 12 trailers at our height. We would put it in, add a little water over the top, drive (tow) the trailer around a bit so the liquids in there slosh about in the tank, then hours or a day later, whichever we would hook up the black hoses and open it up. Of course that's the ideal procedure, every situation is different, sometimes a client would already have put the liquifier in before returning the trailer, etc.. So far this is what you're thinking / expecting. But we'd also get a garden hose and have someone turn on the water while another person is standing over the toilet holding the foot pedal down, spraying water into the tank through the toilet. This would tend to at least partially resolve the issues discussed here. We did not know all of what you just showed in this excellent video. Your rinse device is a rough equivalent to what we were doing, I suppose. But another thing to purchase. An added advantage is that you don't need to get a second person to help you, or kink a hose and dribble water on linoleum floors. I would never use that water hose for anything other than the black water tank rinse though. However you can probably say the same of the garden hose if you ever get it too close to the toilet bowl. Also you stated something incorrect at the start of the video. You said something along the lines of, "you can't see into the tank..." This is incorrect, at least with the Toy Hauler trailers we had, as usually the toilet was directly over the black water tank, if you really wanted to you could get a flash light and look straight down into the tank. (gross.. :-) ) We had Curtis, Baja, Forest River Toy Haulers. (baja is a curtis product if I remember correctly) I'm not familiar enough with RV design to say whether they deliberately place the black water tank under the toilet in every design, I'm guessing in most cases but not all cases. The grey water and fresh water tanks can just have hoses run to them, so they can be placed anywhere along the bottom of the trailer. Good video over-all! It clarified some things about ... remains ... staying on the bottom of the tank. Thank you.
This appears to be an accurate assessment of what happens in the tank, well thought out. I usually dump everything when the grey gets 3/4 full. I have a tank sprayer on both, I typically rinse the grey tank once, and the black 2-4 times, 70 gal grey 40 gal blk. During the rinse on both, I'll fill to 3/4 with the sprayer on watching the sensor, I also time it as my water pressure is always the same as a backup to the sensor indicator. I've always used TST tank treatment no apparent issues. However after watching this I can use liquify for about 1/2 the cost per treatment. While I'm not disappointed in tst, but why not cut costs that are literally flush down the sewer. Thank you for a great video and the education..
Can we all agree, since a picture is worth a thousand words, that even though the surfactant based approach doesn't liquify or break things down, the tank walls are way cleaner after only a single fill and flush compared to the liquify approach. Now some of the biggest issues with tanks are sensor failures and most commonly is a result of stuff being stuck to the sensor. For overall tank management if I can only use 1, I'm going with the surfactant approach, especially if I have full service available. However, a combination of the two will give you the best overall outcome. Regardless of what approach you use, the most important part is by far rinsing the tank properly.
It could be the reason there was nothing stuck to the walls in the surfactant tank is because nothing was broken down into liquid. its going to be difficult for any of the bananas or pieces of dog food to stick to the wall and defy gravity. in my personal opinion, the surfactant did nothing to coat the walls and the reason i say this is because if you watch you will notice toilet paper sticking to the side of the surfactant tank. wet toilet paper, unlike a heavier solid, is so light that its surface tension would be much stronger than the pull of gravity. i would agree that rinsing is the key though. either way, i could see choosing both methods, and more video tests will be coming in the spring. thanks for watching bud.
Excellent video and demonstration. Thank you for your very detailed process and documentation. We switched to from happy camper to liquify and attached a flow totalizer to the tank wash hose. After about 20 gallons of flush after a dump the water is pretty clear again. My previous process was to not flush after every black tank dump, then flush during camp breakdown. I also followed the risky practice of closing the black tank valve while flushing with the tank flush. Never had issues with odors or false tank levels but I much prefer the better method of spray washing the tank after each black tank dump. I wonder what the in tank flush system would look like in assisting with solid removal. With the rhino rinse attachment you would be limited to flushing after the liquid has been drained, whereas with the installed tank flush one could flush while draining which I theory would break the solid mass apart plus add liquid back in to assist with solid removal. Excellent video. Thank you.
@@RVTIPSANDTRAVELS that will be epic. Thank you. If able to reconstruct this test condition I would be curious of tank sprayer function for the following: a) commence tank spray after tank has been drained and b) commence tank spray while tank is being drained.
Thank you for doing this video. Either last year or the year before I switched to Matt's liquefied. I've been pleased. Prior to that for several years I use borax and Dove soap mixture. That worked very well too and I think the odor was more controlled with that mixture. But I do like the liquefied by Matt
Back flushing is the takeaway here. It is less important what product is used to break down solids, than making sure to back flush regularly. The Valterra Flush King also works well. Back fill 15-20 gallons, drain, repeat, done. It also helps to have a sprinkler in the tank. Doesn’t hurt to also back flush the gray tank occasionally.
Notice the sidewalls of your totes in the video. The Kleen tank solution was much cleaner. I have noticed since switching to the solution about a year ago that my tank sensors work much better than when I used solutions that break down waste.
i would agree Harold, but its not something I talked about because i wanted to focus on the purpose of the test, which was overall removal. the surfactant tank side walls were cleaner, but i think that has nothing to do with the surfactant itself, it just happened because nothing was broken down in that tank. in fact, the surfactant tank had a piece of toilet paper stuck to the side wall, so i dont think the surfactant really works at all. are you rinsing your tanks after you dump?
my sensors still work by just doing 1 - 30 gallon rinse. you can see this around the 4 minute 30 second mark in this video: ua-cam.com/video/Q7ZJzfimLwg/v-deo.html
Great video and thanks for the effort of creating it. I do think you are overlooking a point that KT makes. If you compare the sidewalls of the tanks after the dump or after the rinse, the KT is much cleaner. The liquified tank had significantly more residue left behind. Over time, this can cause issues with the sensors. I'm not making an argument for either method, just making an observation. Additionally, it would be an interesting video to see the affects of using the tank rinsing system on any left behind bits.
i wont disagree the sides look cleaner, but i think that has more to do with liquifying the waste. the paste will stick. in the surfactant tank, since we are not liquifying anything that would require an entire banana to stick to the side, maybe thats extreme, but you get the point i think. when you let the bottle of surfactant sit for a day, all of the calgon sits at the bottom, so im not sure how effective it really is in coating the entire tank. another reason i dont think the surfactant works is because a piece of TP stuck to the side of the tank. just my thoughts, but im with you, after doing this test, rinsing was the key. thanks guys!
Very enlightening video! Thanks for the attention to detail and thoroughness! Would be interesting to see a side by side comparing how well different liquifiers do their job 😉
Great video Ross last year I tried the Kleen tank method did not work I recently purchased the liquified pods have not used them yet I have a trip coming up on another note you can market those as a new portable potty 🚽 just need a dometic toilet on the lid lol 😂👍
thanks Corey, I would encourage everyone using the Kleen Tank recipe to rinse and see what they find. I could not find anywhere Kleen Tank recommended to backfill and rinse.
@@RVTIPSANDTRAVELS ya neither I have I think they recommend that after they perform that service on the trailer I actually poured a full gallon of that mixture in my gray tank hopefully to clean the sensors with 20 gallons of water and drove 5 hours and did not make any difference I’m hoping the liquified may work it may not I put it in the gray and black tank thanks Ross
The Kleen tank company does state several applications are needed before it works as they claim-to build up the slickness on the walls. The same is said for the dawn/Borax mixture…several applications needed
Great video. Sounds like the best way to go would be to drain the tank, close the valve, flush for a short period of time to add some water, then flush while draining again to remove remaining solids? (Just be very careful not to leave the flush on while drain is closed)!
I'm so glad you made this video. I've been on the fence as to which method is best. You totally proved which is best. I'm going to continue using my one that breaks down solids. 😋❤ That said, I am curious which flush method you think works better. The built-in tank flush lines in a black water tank, or the Camco setup? I have a built in system on my '06 Thor Transport by Tahoe 3450S toyhauler. But if the Camco is the better way to go then I'd definitely consider adding it to my arsenal. I'm full time living in it where I only have 50amp service and a faucet that i run my hose to in order to fill my two 65 gallon on board fresh water tanks. I have two 65 gallon grey water tanks and one 65 gallon black water tank. It has the flush system on it. I'm fortunate that I have two Camco Rhino 36 gallon sewer totes. Which gives me room at capacity on my black water tank to be able to flush with 7 gallons. I haul them to a nearby dump station. Any expert advice from you would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance! 😊
@RVTIPSANDTRAVELS My 5th wheel toyhauler is a 2006 Thor Transport by Tahoe 3450S. I have no clue how the tank rinser in it is even designed. I've looked around the net some. But I have yet to find anything that even describes how these rinsers are designed. If in your coming videos you could shed some light on that, I'd be very grateful. I like seeing how something is designed it helps in understanding not only how it works but also how its design effectively gets the job 100% or not. By the way a video on how to clean / repair tank sensors would be fantastic. My are erratic at best, at least the ones that seem to work. Lol. Thanks in advance. 😁
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*This Misleading RV Black Tank Treatment Method Just DOESN'T WORK - Instead, Do This to Keep Your Waste Tanks Clean* RV black tank management is a huge part of RV ownership & maintenance. There are a thousand tank treatments & a million different opinions on what works best. We can't see in the tank after its been dumped so I built a couple black tanks to finally see what works best to keep your black tank clean. We compare liquifying waste (Liquified RV Toilet Treatment) against leaving waste in solid form & using the surfactant solution recommended by Kleen Tank. I think you will be surprised what works best to maintain your RV black tanks.
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RV Black Tank Cleaning, Maintenance, Tips & Tricks - The Original Black Tank Master Class
rv black & gray waste tank cleaning tips tricks hacks
The problem I have seen with videos like this is the rhino/elbow cleaner doesn't work like real world situations. Look at 95% of rv's the piping doesn't go strait into the tank
it doesnt need to go straight into the tank... it doesnt need to agitate the contents like it did in the video... the purpose of of it is to backfill the tank. with the gate closed, water has nowhere to go but the tank... thats really the point of using it. if its a straight shot, great, but the purpose of using it is to put water back in the tank. Hope that helps. Here's another video where I show how to rinse with it in real life and youll see how much more comes out after a backfill and rinse: ua-cam.com/video/Q7ZJzfimLwg/v-deo.html
@RVTIPSANDTRAVELS if the gilloteene valve can be closed after the 90 i would agree
thats exactly what happens, you close the valve on the rinser, water will start there and fill back into the tank. I am building a new set up with a real black tank and adding piping to end to simulate a better test. I will bet that the water doesnt get agitated as much but I will also bet that doesnt change the outcome all that much either. We will see I guess.
@@RVTIPSANDTRAVELS I thought the video proved the point - empty the black tank, backfill - drain and more "stuff" comes out. Anyone with a Rhino Blaster sees the proof.
This demonstration is the most realistic i have seen yet, great job
thank you Mark.
One of the better demonstrations, thanks.
Agreed, i've been watching these tests for the past year+ and this one does the best job so far.
My question is though, and maybe this is a new video idea @RVTIPSANDTRAVELS what is the benefit to using the flush gates over the flush port on the RV?
already in the works for a new video my friend!
@@RVTIPSANDTRAVELS Awesome, thank you. Another thought that comes to mind, the movement of 'matter' as the overall level hits the top of the outlet pipe; in an actual tank, that level is pretty close to the top of the outlet, i'm wondering how that affects the overall 'matter' movement Vs. the test tank 🤔
I’ve also been using Kleen Tanks recipe for a while. It was probably close to 3 years. After watching a few of your other black tank videos in the past I decided to refill and rinse after I dumped the black tank while on a full hook up just to see if more would come out. I’ll just say that I had to refill and rinse 4 times to get everything out. I do think the Kleen Tank recipe smells good, but this video is spot on about rinsing, especially after I realized the surfactant doesn’t work. I’ve since gone to using Matt’s product also, and along with rinsing, my tanks are clean and empty after dumping. The sad thing is that nowhere does Kleen Tank recommend to rinse the tanks. It’s a shame, a big company like that telling people this will make everything slide right out when it really doesn’t. No wonder they are so busy cleaning tanks.
I do the same... 2 to 3 rinses.
Same here but the video I watched on it said to rinse. I rinse until contents come out mostly clean
@myriadcorp please show me where: kleentank.com/tank-maintenance/
In the video I watched it did recommend to back fill. Also, it was not advertised that it moves waste better. It advertised that it doesn't allow waste to stick to the walls and more importantly, the sensors. Just watching this short test that was clear to me, the waste breakdown treatment caused more sludge to stick to the walls.
I wont disagree with you that liquifying waste leaves more on the walls, but the surfactant is definitely advertised to move everything out... here is a podcast from a Kleen Tank dealer saying it: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-the-wheel/id1436557600?i=1000660422567
I can find more statements as well, but here is another problem. The Kleen Tank website, which should be their leading source of information, does not mention to rinse.... in fact they say to dump, put some water back in along with the surfactant, and start using the tank again. see for yourself: drive.google.com/file/d/1_PK_1yVSpsSD67hloCMjsIeip6jbHIiI/view?usp=sharing
Its on their website, and in case they conveniently decide to change their website after seeing this, I took a screenshot of this. I'm not here to convince anyone 1 way or the other. There are definite problems with both methods, but the massive pile of stuff left in the tank is more concerning than whats on the walls, in my opinion. I will be releasing a sensor video soon. Thanks for watching!
This is a great demonstration of what goes on in the black tank. Treatments aren't as relevant as rinsing the tank several times to get it clean. CLEAN = NO SMELL. As the video infers, just adding a little water to the tank (5 gallons or so) several times and rinsing is the trick; 5 to 10 times. Always store the tank wet; a few gallons)
i wont disagree: rinse!
So glad to watch your videos. Past years I have paid to winterize my trailer and have had mess after mess. Your videos are well scripted, thorough, and comprehensive. I followed all of the instructions to the letter, and I am very proud of myself (age 72). I am confident next season I will have no surprises or added expense in fixing issues that occurred from a poor job. I will also do a thorough rinse as you pointed out. Thank you so much!
you got it Susan!
Switched from Liquified to the Clean Tank solution and am happy. If you have your tanks cleaned by Clean Tank, they will tell you to backflush you tank after each dump and then add some water before adding the solution. What you don't describe is the amount of material left on the sides of your test tanks. I noticed that the Liquified had more residue on the sides than the Clean Tank solution. That's what the Calgon does, releases the surface tension and helps material "slide" off the sides of the tank and thus, the sensors. Everyone will have their own opinion.
thanks for watching Jerry!
Ross, I also use the Rhino Blaster Pro when I dump my Black Tank. I also use the Black Tank rinse valve on the opposite side of the trailer. When I dump I rinse the tank using the Rhino Blaster Pro to about 2/3 rds of capacity and the tank flush (for about 5 min) alternately, and do it about three times each. After the third rinse, the water coming out of the tank is perfectly clear. when I'm complete, I put about 5-7 gallons of clean water in the tank before traveling or storing and add liquified. Thank you for demonstrating this process of what happens in the tank when dumping. It really gave me a good piece of mind for the method I use.
Thanks for the info Stephen, and thank you for your service!
I love videos like this. The Fit RV guy did this with his clear tank. He actually got a waist recipe from NASA that he used. You and he went to a lot of trouble to prove a point and I appreciate it. I use both methods in my tanks. The surfactant when on the move and an enzyme treatment when at camp sitting still. Our tanks are three years old and I have never had any smell and my sensors always work. I have a built in tank flush, that I use and I'll fill and dump the tank until it runs clear and I see no debris in the clear tube and the sensors read empty. This takes about three tank fills and dumps. I see the surfactant left less stuff on the tank walls than the Liqufied treatment. That's the water softener in the treatment. From watching these videos and my own experience, what cleans the tanks is water, water, water. Use a lot when dumping and rinsing. Keep water in the tanks when storing and use a lot when flushing. I have the advantage to dump my tanks at home so I can do a through cleaning without holding up the line at the dump station. Thanks for video.
thank you Ralph.
I agree that using a surfactant (or just plain dish soap) when moving will produce a different result. I've been using dish soap whether we're stationary or moving for over a year, and even though we full-time, we rarely have any odor from our black tank at all. But I STRONGLY agree that using a backflush system makes a big difference in how clean the tank will get. I did see a Kleen tech recommend these on a YT video, and it seems to be the single most important means of cleaning out a black tank (other than only dumping a full black tank).
This has to be the most complete and comprehensive test of this nature I’ve seen. We are full-time RV’rs, and I have used several products, including both methods you tested. I had high hopes for the Kleen Tank solution, as they provided a believable theory against breaking down the tank contents. After my real world experience, I’ve gone back to the Liquify product and have seen immediate improvement. What was very interesting was your demonstration of rinsing by only filling the tank 20-25%. I’ve been doing 85-90%, and this can take a considerable amount of time and definitely uses more water. I will be trying several smaller flushes for a while to see if my results are typical.
i wouldnt change your flushing method... i really should have filled more when i rinsed, but my thinking at the time was just to show what even a quick rinse would do. if what you're doing is working, stick with it. more tank test videos are coming.
After 6 years of about 150 days a year on the road I’ve learned for me it’s just better to dump my tank and flush it out very well with fresh water several times and I do this about every other day and it takes maybe 10 minutes. I stopped wasting my money on tank treatments especially since I always have full hookups. I’ve also heard Matt’s stuff is the exact same thing as unique tank treatment and he’s just repackaged it under his name. Just take a few minutes everyday or every other day. When I travel I put a full cup of dawn dishwashing liquid in the tanks with a couple gallons of water also.
definitely, rinsing is the key, thanks Nathan.
I've got a 40 gallon black tank.
After I dump my tank I put between 7 and 10 gallons of water back into the tank with about 1 cup of Dawn. I live full time and I move the Trailer every 5 to 10 days, so it works good for me.
@@windrider65 RV traveling in the summer for a month. Getting a good rinse on the black tank using a clear sewer hose fitting and leaving 5-10 gallons in the black tank works great for me. I also installed the Blue Streak chemical system and have had better results than treating the black tank.
@@windrider65 I also put some dish soap in our black tank every time after dumping our black tank, and we've had no problems, but I definitely agree that rinsing via a backflush is key to getting a black tank as clean as possible.
Great video and test. I did notice that the surfactant treated tank/bin had less gunk on the sides of the bin after the inital dump than the liquified treated tank/bin. IMO >> this does indicate that the surfactant is making the tank/bin side walls a bit slicker (less friction) which may help keep the tank sensors cleaner (more accurate) and also a bit easier to get the gunk off the walls during the rinse/back flush.
I have been using a similar recipe of the Kleen Tank surfactant of 40oz dollar tree pine sol, ~1/4 cup of Dawn diswashing liquid and ~1/2 cup Borax in a 52 gal black tank after every back flush/dump.
My black tank has a rinse built in. After the inital tank dump I rinse for 20-30 minutes...just let the water run with the gate valve open. After this rinse the water coming from the black tank is clear/clean (no solids showing). The black tank rinse nozzle(s) are usually positioned on the walls of the black tank in the top 1/3 of the tank (near the top). When you rinse the tanks the water is coming in from the top/above the solids that are left in the bottom of the tank. Water coming from above means that the solids are being forced/pushed out of the tank vs just floating on top of the water as with only using the back flush method. Then I back flush the tank three times, filling the tank each time. I back flush to help get the stuck on toilet paper and other gunk off the walls to try to keep the sensors clean and remove any particles that may cause odor. Lastly I add the Geo-method (homemade recipe as mentioned above) of surfactant prior to a travel day. This allows the surfactant to slosh around a bit. I never have smells and the tank water is clean afterwards (hence no left over solids that dont get flushed out). I use this same method, dump > 3 times back flush > add surfactant to all three of our RV tanks (black, and two grey). I wish the kitchen grey tank had a rinse line in it. The kitchen grey tank can get to smelling worse than the black tank with leftover pieces of rotting/decaying food.
I did take the time a while back to put a video camera (scope type) into the black tank by way of the toilet to see if the black tank was actually clean after my dump/treatment method. Surprisingly it was clean with no left over solids. The key is, as you mentioned in the video/test...you have to use lots of water with multiple rinse/back flushes to get all the left over solids moving and out of the tank.
thanks John, the key is definitely rinsing. I do think there is less residue on the sides in the surfactant tank because you dont liquify that stuff, so for anything to stick it was have to stick in total solid form, which wouldnt happen. Im not sure if its the surfactant doing the job, or nothing is sticking because its left in solid form. Does that make sense? A piece of TP sticks to the side in the surfactant tank, so Im thinking it might not have as much to do with the surfactant. Im going to do more tests, I think the mixture with borax will be one of those videos. Ive heard great things about that too... but again, i agree with your final assessment, whatver works for you is great as long as you are backfilling and rinsing.
I use the cascade premium plus DW pods. Fill a juice jug half full with hot water, slip in a pod wait for it to dissolve, shake and ad with more water. If you think about it the DW pods clean all the crap off the dishes, no suds, break down waste and your DW is spanking clean when done. Yes there is hot water and pressure inside but for all my tanks, 4 years now, this is working just fine. Just wish that with all the technology we wouldn’t have to be dealing with this issue.
this might be something I test in future videos, thanks for sharing. and i agree about the technology comment.
Thank you very much for your test. I just got back from a 5 day camping trip in South Lake Tahoe CA. I dumped out tank in our Entegra class A motorhome twice, and I used the built-in tank flush about 5 times each time I did the dump. I used Liquified for the first time ever and I was surprised than even after the initial flush, without using the rinse, I didn't see any solid waste coming out. Before using Liquified, I had been using those drop in pouches and they didn't do anything to break down our solids. I'm sold on Liquified.
glad to help. safe travels!
What a great visual on how solids and liquified solids empty when dumping our tanks. I'm super excited to see the flush port video - I think folks are seriously going to be surprised at how LITTLE they do and that the reverse flush adapter from camco and valterra are really the way to go for tank maintenance.
Thanks Josh, thats really the point of the video, at least how I wanted it to come across. solids need liquids to move, and rinsing is the key.
With a new RV (and black tank) I have been debating and researching which method to use. Best video, experiment, and demonstration by far!! Thanks for the visual and helping my decision making! Keep the videos coming!
im just here to find out what works best, thats all i can do: provide options and videos proof. glad you enjoyed!
Great test. You’ll never please everyone but this is as close as you’ll get. Great job making this.
more tests are coming!
I just bought the Camco Rhino Blaster Pro Rinser on Amazon. The attached videos are definite proof that this little gizmo works well!
👍
Love that you give Kleen Tank a good rating for cleaning tanks, despite the mixture not working. I had them clean a motorhome tank a few years ago and they were very professional. I agree the mixture doesn’t work though. Everything you did in this video was very realistic and fair. Well done, Ross.
Thanks Todd, i have no affiliation to a product, the only thing that matters to me is giving my audience the truth, good or bad.
@@RVTIPSANDTRAVELSfor someone like me this is exactly what I need. My hubby absolutely hates a lot of RV tip videos because they ‘waffle on and on before getting to the point’ When I share yours he watches them because you get to the point straight away and you present the facts as they are. Thank you! 🙏🏼
EXCELLENT! This is the closest to realistic comparison of 2 products we have used while full-timing in our RV (6 months with the DIY Surfactant solution and over a year with Liquified) - our experience agrees with your much more observable investigation. btw - we do backflush our gray tank water into our black tank 3-4x at each dumping (55gal black/100 gal gray tanks)
BTW - I shared this on one of my FB groups and got a suspension for the day ... was so impressed with your video I forgot there is no sharing of outside content in that group ... oops. lol.
Thank you again
thank you! glad to help.
In my 9 years of RVing I have always just flushed the tanks repeatedly. I have never used any products in my tanks and I also use household toilet paper. Never had any be problems.
flushing and lots of water!
I started using Liquified a few months ago and after seeing this video, so very glad I did. Thank you for such an easy to understand test!
Glad it was helpful!
One of the best tests online for RVS. Thanks
thanks Matt, while the test will never be perfect, I think this portrays very closely what to expect.
It really is, as a newbie to having an RV this has been so informative.
Ross i think you hit nail on head. I personally use Kleen tank method with extreme flushing. Im almost always a FHU site and my black is only 30 gals. I also have this rule with using the Kleen tank method. I always after completing emptying and flushing put solution back in tank then fill to 1/3 full. I actually used my inspection Camara to see if the tank has gotten build up and it looks brand new for most part. So even when i start using my camper while camping i start out with a good amount of water in tank. Also i do short trips. Pretty much a weekend warrior. No more than 4 nights / 5 days. Being that the tank isnt very larger my family tends to fill it by end of day 2 of use.
Just my experience and 2 cents.
thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences my friend!
KT's argument is that RV tanks are not septic tanks and thus enzyme treatments are not needed. Point taken - we're not keeping stuff in there long term. HOWEVER, we are usually dumping into a septic system at a campground or park. If I was a park owner, I wouldn't want anything going down my dumps that would upset the balance in my septic system and it sure seems like the Pine-sol and Calgon would do just that.
good point.
Call any septic tank company and ask them what happens to a septic tanks drain field if it gets filled with sludge.
@@user-bb2uo9gg4p Any well designed septic system will not pass sludge to the field. That is the purpose of the septic tank to separate and digest solids and settle out particulates from the effluent. If suspended solids are exiting the tank, you have a bad tank.
@@thecherryrvlife interesting point and to that point let me add and ask isn't that what a septic tank at a campgrounds job is? to break down and liquefy solids? To kleen tanks statement that our tanks are holding tanks and not septic tanks once they go into the campgrounds septic tank it's going to do its job.. so my question is... how is dumping unliquidfied solids throwing off the balance..? I'm just trying to understand what exactly do you mean by the balance are you referring to the fact that adding solids causes the tanks balance to be off because there's both liquified and unliquidfied substances at once? If so.. does that mean that our holding tanks are supposed to do the septic tanks job before they go into the tank that is responsible for that job?
Please note my intention is not to start an argument but just have an opinion on your statement and just want to try to understand further and or maybe I just misunderstood what you meant perhaps
Doesn’t houses have Pine-sol, bubble bath, bath oils, toilet cleaner and other products on a regular basis?
I am glad you posted this video. I bought calgon and pine sol. I will be using the calgon in the bath. And pine sol to clean. I will continue to use liquified and unique. I use liquified when it is hot. Because unique gets a bit stinky in the heat.
ive heard good things about Unique as well, maybe ill use that in another video. Thanks for watching and commenting Boone.
Great job Ross.! Hard to argue with the facts. Appreciate you taking the time for this. Looks like we are on the right path from the beginning from watching your black tank education video. We were new two years ago, and watching your videos before we received our coach, we have never had an issue at all. :) Thank you!
glad to help, thank you for the input my friend.
One thing I notice is that the Liquify side had a lot more "scum" stuck to the sides of the tank. This is the type of thing that causes sensors to misread. I use the Kleen method but I rinse my black tank until the discharge runs clear. I also go to at least half (but usually 3/4) full each rinse being VERY careful not to overfill and cause a massive problem. I also run the rinse as I'm dumping the black tank. So far so good.
I wont disagree with you, the test was done fairly and I will continue to stay objective about the results, regardless of what I personally use. There is more left on the walls of the tank after the first dump in the Liquified tank, absolutely agree. However, this video is not about sensors, that video will be coming later... *I think the massive pile of waste left in the bottom of the tank that this surfactant is supposed to remove is much more of a concern than a little bit of paste on the walls that will most likely come off with a higher volume rinse.* That pile is going to build up MUCH quicker than the side walls, and you're going to have MUCH bigger problems in a MUCH shorter amount of time if that is not removed. I will be doing a sensor video soon. Remember, I'm looking for the best overall solution for myself and other RV'ers, regardless what the answer is, but this test was not about sensors. Sure, after using the surfactant, the sensors may work a little better after the first dump, but thats not what this test was about... it was to determine what got more out of the tank, and while the results were not drastically different, the surfactant clearly lost. Additionally, I have no issue with Kleen Tank either, in fact from what I've heard, I believe they do a great job of cleaning tanks, and I mention that in the video.
But this test was to determine if their surfactant recipe claim works (to "make everything slippery so it slides out"),
and it clearly does not.
Stay tune for the sensor video, and thank you for watching!
Your flush process to clear output is exactly what we do. And once we discovered it, we realized how many folks never really fullyclean their tanks. We use BORAX (Surfactant) after each flush of the black tank. We leave about 6 to 10 gallons with approx 1/2 cup of Borax in the tank after the clear flush. This sloshes around as we drive from A to B with the rig. We live full time on the road, and this has prevented smell. We never even look at the lights, as the sensors were pretty much non-functional when we bought our 2018 Coachmen class c. The drains tell you when your gray is full, the sound of stuff going into the toilet tell you when it needs to be dumped. Plus, we always dump our tanks prior to each move, which is approx once or twice a month. Gray is dumped when it fills.
@@RVTIPSANDTRAVELSactually can’t wait to see the sensor video
@@grobeg we’ve been using the Geo Method for a while now and it seems to be the best “solution” for us. Our latest mix is using Borax rather than Calgon. Lots cheaper and should work the same. We’ve also been using Zep Pine Cleanser rather than PineSol. Again cheaper, and actually has pine oil as an ingredient.
very interesting idea, thanks for sharing... I think part of the reason the solids in the surfactant tank didnt stick was because they were solids, and not necessary because of the calgon. if you notice, a piece of toilet paper sticks to the side of the surfactant tank. ill be doing more tests and continuing to make the test as realistic as possible, though they will never be spot on. even if I used the real "stuff", there are so many tank shapes and designs that would affect how they drain... I do think with more testing we will at least get a good look at what is generally happening.
Great video Ross! You are so thorough and careful with your test methods. And the production quality of your video is stellar as always.
I've been RVing for 30 years and used the liquify method. We just changed our trailer - a four-year old used model - and I had Kleen Tank come out and do their thing. I also started using their mixture and Rhino back flushing as they recommend. I have found that the ONLY way to get solids completely out of my tank is to go back to what I did with our first trailer many years ago - and that is connecting the good ol' Camco spray wand and bringing it inside to spray/flush through the toilet opening. I would back flush with the Rhino as Kleen Tank recommended as many four times and still had solids in the tank. The built-in black tank flush does NOT get the tank clean either.
Here's a GIANT problem for me: when we camp at a state park with no sewer hook-up at the site, I don't have the luxury of flushing the tank three or four times. There is always someone in line behind me waiting to dump. I don't have a dump at home, so I can't clean it when I get back. So it stays dirty until I get to the next campsite with full hook up.
Also, I have noticed that the Kleen Tank formula does not control odors as good as the older formulas with formaldehyde. I do realize that it's almost impossible to get tank treatments containing that chemical nowadays. I bought Pine Sol in bulk to save money, but I'll probably go back to the liquify method when that's used up.
good to hear from you again bud, and thanks for sharing all that info!
This was an excellent test: very elegantly designed with good control of variables. Well done!
thank you Paul
Great test! One thing that I'm going to try based on your experiment is to turn on my factory installed black tank rinse as I drain the tank. It seems that it is important to get the material in the tank agitated so that it is not a single floating mass. Breaking the material apart aids in the draining of its contents.
Use tank rinse to fill tank 5 gallons, then rinse 5-10 times (5 gallons each). A clean tank doesn't smell
I will be doing more tests using wands and internal sprayers, stay tuned!
Great video! We also use liquefied and have not had any issues. Though, I think you missed one test item...a baby Ruth bar!
😂😂😂😂
actually more tests are coming, including things that sink since poo both floats and sinks. stay tuned!
I always flush my tank multiple times until I see the waste water coming out clear. Also in my previous trailer that didn't have a tank flush hook up I would use a gutter cleaning spray wand and put it directly down the toilet hole and twist it around to spray down all the walls of the tank, worked perfectly.
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I also drive around before dumping to help liquify it all… then when it’s coming out, it’s REALLY mixed.
agitation really does help free things up
I have been using the Kleen Tank solution for about 2-1/2 years now with great results. My tank sensors all still work. I would like to see your test with sensors because it looks like the Liquified might coat the walls more. I think the surfactant helps with the sensors. At least it does with my use. Great video.
thank you... my sensors still work by just doing 1 - 30 gallon rinse. you can see this around the 4 minute 30 second mark in this video: ua-cam.com/video/Q7ZJzfimLwg/v-deo.html
I use the GEO method similar to what you tested. But I also use a conditioner to break down the solids. I personally found the method works for me. I do backflush 2-3 times if time allows at the dump station. I'll also use a wand to wash the tank regardless if I was able to backflush or not. Great video
thanks for sharing Bob, I appreciate it. If you found something that works for you, then thats all that matters. More test videos coming!
Well, this video just proves that if you just kept washing the tank with water you don’t need any products maybe something for odor that’s it
Agree, and the RV has a rooftop vent to exhaust odors, just like your house. We don't put treatment products in our home toilets either for smell.
That is the main takeaway that I received from the video, I rinse 5-10 times, about 5 gallons per rinse and the tanks gets clean with no smell issues. Storing the tank wet is also key.
i believe that is the key also. one thing to consider though is that not everybody camps at sites with hookups, so rinsing multiple times at a dump station may be necessary to remove all solids, and sometimes thats not possible, or should I say "considerate" if there is a line of RV'ers behind you waiting at the dump station.
I also thought about this Rick, it seems to me if you keep a vapor barrier in your toilet and use a lot of water, you should not have really any odors. I've never had odors and Ive used a few different treatments over the years.
@@RVTIPSANDTRAVELS well you spent all that time building those tanks. I wonder how many times you have to rinse to clear out the tanks is it three is it five is it 10 that’ll be another good video!!!!
We are two years into our first RV. When we would dump I noticed that initial rush of solid waste then just liquid, for the most part. We would flush the tank 3 times at each dump from the toilet down, each dump gave us the same results. It has been that way this entire time. I am now going to try the "Liquified" treatment and add the Rhino blaster to the plan. I just ordered both they will be here on the 19th, we head out for 7 days on the 21st, we'll see how this works out. Thank you, I appreciate your "scientific method" approach to so many of your videos.
my pleasure, thanks for watching!
@@RVTIPSANDTRAVELS I used the Rhino blaster for the first time today and I really like it, I put in the "Liquified" treatment today as well, know in a week how that works out. Thanks again.
@@richarda9983let us know if you notice a difference?
Great video!! I also found that using an additive to break down solids along with 2-3 flushes work best. Both my black and grey tanks are never empty after the flushing routine. I always leave about 3-5 gallons in each tank between rv usages. When I am hooked up to a sewer connection, the first thing I do is drain and one flush. Then I add some water and Liquified treatment. I have yet to have issues with either tank sensors, draining or smells.
The visuals of this video certainly support my routine! Thanks!!!
thanks Chris!
I've seen a few of these demonstrations now. There is one thing that is not a spoken or used implemented factor. An actual vacuum between the long vent and the sewer drain. When I flush out, I ensure that I have the tank full of water past the toilet inlet to water seal and strengthen the vacuum to aid in draining. I've witness this and it does work the best, a true vacuum, not just a lid open to watch. Also, I did go through the pyramid and full tank of solids (little water) phase when I started. An Unforgettable Stinky Lesson! I'm Thankful for that $20 spray hose to shove down there and help break it up and flush out. I had to use it only once. And that is also the keyword here, flush out. On average, I flush tanks around every 3rd to 4th day - depending (30 gallon tank). And, I flush through about 6 times. Yes, I fill up on initial dump (1), then refill and flush out up to 5 more times (or more if needed). I haven't had any problems since. OH! Yeah, from another video I watched - Use LOTS of Water. Water is your best friend.
you're not ever creating a vacuum in the tank, there is a vent pipe that goes from the top of the tank to the top of the RV. the vent caps are on the top of the RV, thats what I put on the lids. waste tanks are always vented so they dont expand and rupture. the only way to create a vacuum is to seal of the roof vents, which would be a bad idea.
@RVTIPSANDTRAVELS The vacuum I speak of can be demonstrated with a straw and some soda. Cut a small hole in the middle of the straw, and you lose the true vacuum seal of vent in, drain out, plus gravity. It's all about force movement.
how are you doing this on an RV though?
@RVTIPSANDTRAVELS This was trial and error. I make sure I turn off the water pump, and I'm using the RV park provided water only. Then I removed the shower head from the hose and saved the grommet so as not to lose it in any of the drains (that would be bad). Then, after the first initial drain, making sure I watch what drains out - call it quality inspection, I immediately fill the tank back up, but I fill it passed the toilet closure to water seal from air intake. It's the key component to the vacuum strength. After several fill and drain processes, I get clear water when draining. Oh, yeah, my apologies, I should have mentioned; track the time it takes to fill the tank (empty and full) and track it again when draining. The difference in those minutes for each will let you know if you have a good flush out or if there are still major solids stuck in there. That difference of that time frame is representing the solids taking up space inside the tank (or no solids) instead of the flushing water.
if there was a complete vacuum in the tank while dumping, the water would flow out much slower. this is simple physics. Im still confused what you mean by strengthening the vacuum. Eliminating the ability for air to return will make things exit much slower. This is here in this video at the 2:23 mark ua-cam.com/video/tApcUadZt_Q/v-deo.html
Good video. I use a commercial RV mix to break it down. I've been though a few brands and have found one that works well for my small black tank. The surfactant mix isn't an option, maybe for gray water tank. About 9 gal is the size of the black tank in my Scamp. I always do multiple tank flushings for better cleaning. I've been using it for 12 years. The only time I had a problem was at a certain RV park that had a "dump valve bandit" who would open dump valves on RV's.
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When I'm camping i usually rise one or two times but before i move to my next campground i give it a good backflow like the one you use, and i fill the tank up to about 80 percent of water and then I release the valve, and one of the last rinse i use dawn dish soap, great video.
works great!
Great video.
About two years ago, I started using borax and dish soap, then just borax and we've had zero issues, smell or otherwise. I use the black tank flush until it runs clean then leave 3-4 gallons behind and ziplock snack bag amount of borax to the tank. That's all the more I do and we've had no issues, even after leaving the trailer sit for a year after surgeries. So far so good, aint broke aint fixing it. 100%, flushing is the key, and having a built in sprayer is even more magic IMNSHO ;)
thanks Bob! After doing this, I would agree flushing is the key!
Ross
I start my tank flushing system before I pull my black tank dump valve. Seems to agitate the contents and provide the liquid needed to move the solids while dumping. Seems to clean the tanks well.👍
John, I thought about talking about this too, the video was already done, and I figured I made the point enough, but you're right on with that idea my friend.
Same here brother. I am adding water as I am flushing. I do this three times and my tanks are pretty clean. It takes time but I feel better about leaving my trailer sit a few months.
Great job on this video and very helpful. I have the Rhino Blaster Pro and have had great success with it. One thing I noticed is how the solids stayed in the first dumb. My mind right away thought, what if I added water to the tank on the factory RV black tank fill as the dumbing was going on? Would that keep head pressure in the tank AND mix the solids at the same time to flush out the tank? Sure, the second back flush with the Rhino Blaster Pro would be needed. Just a thought. Great video and thank you for all the great information you share.
David, I am getting a lot of questions on the black tank flush... in other words, more videos are coming with the black tank tests.
Your video confirms my belief that having the agitation of the tank flush has the most effect on getting the tank cleaned out. As you show waste tends to create a mat that is hard to move and breaking it up as the tank flush or your back fill did is the key to getting it out of the tank.
thanks for watching, more videos to come!
We’ve been full timing for 7 years. All 3 of my Airstreams have had a black tank rinser. My method has been to open the valve with the rinser running. Once the tank capacity is reduced to 5%, I close the valve and fill the tank with fresh water to 80% capacity then open the valve again. If the exiting water is not clear after the second fill, I’ll do a third. Watching this video has confirmed my method as an effective way to keep my black tank clean. We use RV Digest-It. It works better than Happy Campers and Valterra Odorlos.
thanks for sharing! more tank test videos are coming!
Very informative video! We’ve been using the surfactant treatment for a while… the biggest thing I want to avoid is the sludge from the black tank.
What has been proven consistently is that water will make all the difference and flushing with plenty of water is the best thing.
Thanks for all of the hard work and detail you put into this demonstration. 🙏🏽
you are very welcome!
I rince my black tank at mid week 3 to 4 times when I'm camping. I unique digest to liqify with 4oz in my 40gal tank. I will dump it as I turn on my rinser. Now what I do were I find most people don't do is I fill it until it almost going in the toilet. Then I dump .I do this 3 to 4 times I even have it on my phone and time how long it will fill it. I just keep an eye on it with a flash light. This is extreme for most people but my tank is crystal clear. One big thing I do is once I go thru this process I put 4oz of unique digest and 3 to 4 gal. before I leave the campground to let it slosh around on my way home. I have a drain at home for my septic and drain it with my wand and rinser and that comes is basically colored water and keep rinsing until clear. Maybe 2 to 3 times At the campground il rinse after dumping 2 to 3 times. At the end of the week before I leave I rinse maybe 2 times But rinsing like you said is key.
thanks for the comment my friend!
Great video. I have been rinsing my tanks 2 & 3 times before everything looks clear. Now I see why.
Great to hear!
Great video, Ross, well done. I think the bananas are a great idea, versus just dog food!!!
I have to rinse/fill my tank @4-5 times with the integrated tank rinse if I want to get clear water to come out. Rinsing is essential, no matter what treatment one uses!
Again, thank you, Ross, love your videos!!
thanks Martina, more tank tests to come.
@@RVTIPSANDTRAVELS 🙌
Amazing demonstration. Thank you so much. I actually use a mix of both method. I know I may just be wasting money, but I just have been doing it that way. Mainly because I just didn’t know what was best so I figured both.
Are you still going to use both after this out of interest as I’m wondering to?
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@@overthetop97 I do a combo too lol I use Unique and then put in calgon beads as well. Seems to do the trick 🤷🏼♀️
Thanks for the tremendous amount of effort you put into this vid. It's taught me that I should make sure there's some liquid left in the tank between trips so that anything left on the bottom breaks down.
I installed another valve at the discharge of my tank (where the cap would go). This allows me to back-flush using the grey tank and it's amazing how much more I get out of the black tank. I even get stuff out that the built in spray flusher leaves behind.
It's also nice to have the extra valve in case the other valves fail.
thanks Scott, the real outcome of the video (to my surprise) wasnt even about the treatments... it just proved rinsing is the most important thing. more videos are coming!
@@RVTIPSANDTRAVELS Yes indeed, rinsing is the key. I wonder what the method I described would look like. I tend to get a lot more TP out when I use the volume of the grey tank to rinse the black.
We use the Liquified treatment. We have two macerating toilets so, the grind is much smaller. Which may mean another video. I do back flush with the gray tank, but just a bit. We do have a flush system built in to the back tank and it does seem to get a lot out after we get to the bottom the second time.
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Great video, I’ve had my rv for 2 years and have religiously flushed my black tank at the end of the camping trip 3 or 4 times plus used the black tank flush line to help achieve a good flush and when I say I was shocked is an understatement when after 2 years, I bought a flush king and it was like I wasn’t flushing very much in the past. The first time with flush king, the stuff just kept coming and it took a good 12 to 15 (not kidding) flushes to remove what I thought I was getting in the past and now I use it in the middle of the camping stay and at the end of the stay. Before you ask, there are inexpensive water flow meters to put on water hose to prevent blowing out the top. My tank is 30 gallons and I only go up to 25 gallons on the tank in fear that I will overfill the tank. I have use all of the products that is supposed to break the solids down and all that done was accumulated at the bottom of the tank except the liquid type but in my opinion none of it works so I just use odor control solution. Good luck.
thanks Allen!
Great test! With regard to Kleen Tanks, unless you're having a problem with your black tank (i.e., it's clogged and won't dump), I don't see much point in having it basically pressure washed. I just don't care if the black tank is never squeaky clean because it's going to get dirty again the very next time that you use it.
Dumping the black tank only when it's full AND backflushing it thoroughly will, in my experience, keep you from having any real problems. I've used various treatments and currently use dish soap, but these are only supplementary to the above.
im kind of in the same boat, i dont need it to be spotless, i just want it to be empty.
I'd like to point out that not all rv tank dumps are a straight shot back into the tank. In that case you are likely just filling the tank from the bottom and floating the contents up again. Nice demo and good points made.
correct, its really just about refilling so you can dump. I promise, more will come out. I do it on my actual rv in this video and you can see more come out: ua-cam.com/video/Q7ZJzfimLwg/v-deo.html
great comparison video, ive used rv digest it and now use the kleen tank mixture except I use fabuloso and calgon laundry detergent liquid softener. Part of me wonders if the beads don't do enough softening of the water solution to make a difference. I always assumed the laundry detergent mix would be better since a laundry machine uses lots of water similar to a black tank. I also go a little heavier on the calgon mix.
that said my issues are never with the black tank ironically.... its the grey tank that actually begins to smell, the crap that comes out of the grey tank is worse then the black tank honestly. I might make my homemade mixture with liquified as well as kleen tanks recipe for double the power lol sometimes ill toss some rv digest it in the tank with the calgon fabuloso mixture and haven't had any problems. My black tank sensors all work, it's my grey tank sensors that always read 3/4 full unfortunately.
if you have some down time, fill the gray tanks up completely, add it a little dishsoap, and let them sit for a few days. just like you would to remove gunk from a pot or pan. dump them, rinse a few times, and see what happens. i know of others who have done this with success.
I always rinse my tank when I dump. The two times I stayed at a campground where rinse water wasn't available I ended up with clogs and issues the next time I tried to dump. My black tank flush is on the far side from the outlet, so it's pushing everything towards the exit, and I generally fill half to two thirds full before dumping the second time, there's so much that still comes out. If there's not a line I'll close the dump valve again and let it fill a bit more for a second rinse, which is usually enough to get the water running clear, or at least close to clear.
I've been using Unique's pods, which seem to be pretty similar in performance to Liquified, and they're so much better than the Camco TST pods I started out with. I'd be curious to try both the surfactant and an enzyme/bacteria product. It seems like the surfactant and pine sol do a pretty good job keeping the smell down and I do occasionally get some odor when it's really hot out and it's been over a week.
thanks for sharing that info! more tests are coming!
I appreciate the effort you invest in your research, videos and the factual explanations you provide. I also use the Canco back flush attachment but I determined that having a Black Tank Flush option on your camper is a real plus. I also have needed to use the spray wand down the toilet after our grandkids have visited.
Thanks Bob, going to do more tests with flush wands and internal tank sprayers as well. Stay tuned.
We’re on our second season with our travel trailer. I decided to try not using either a liquefier or a surfactant and just use lots of water the first time we camped. When the drain port plugged up it became apparent that this method didn’t work. I now use a tank liquefier treatment, dump a full pail of water down the toilet when I’m draining it and use the built-in black tank flush if the water hose has a threaded fitting (often they don’t). When heading home I add a few gallons of water to the black tank and toss in a couple of dishwasher detergent pods to slosh around on the return trip. At home I drain the tank again using a five gallon pail (dumping the contents down a toilet with multiple trips) then use a plastic flushing wand on a hose down into the tank through the toilet and blast the tank in all directions until the water coming out is essentially clear. Unless you’re on a fully serviced site doing multiple flushes at the dump station is usually not a good idea because often there are others waiting. Whatever way you do it nothing beats multiple flushes with a bit of water pressure.
thanks for sharing Robert!
On a recent camping trip, the campers next door had Kleen Tank come to his site to clean the tanks. He gave us a heads up that there may be some smell. I guess they need to do the service where there is a dump as they don't have the means to collect the waste. It took the Kleen Tank tech about an hour to service the tanks. It looked like they use a pressure washer with special attachments to wash the inside of the tanks. The was no smell or mess and very little noise. The machine used was electric and didn't make much noise. At first I thought this was kind of rude to do this at a campground around other campers and not at a dump station. But it really wasn't a problem. We hardly noticed the tech. I guess it's a good service if you haven't taken care of your tanks or purchased a used RV and don't know the condition of the tanks. Our neighbor said he was cleaning them before putting the trailer in storage.
thanks for sharing Ralph... I've heard only good things about their cleaning service.
Thanks for putting in the time to bring this demonstration to rv'ers. I have just recently starting using this recipe, and like others, I too have to do multiple back flushes. I'll definitely go back to the liquefied solution after watching this. Great job!!
more videos are coming!
I use 4 oz of Pinesol 1 scoop of Happy Camper 2 oz of Dawn dishwater det . Works great no smell tank flush to finish up. No issues.
nice, thanks for sharing Peter.
what really helps is the pressure your rinsing. it makes all the solids mix with the water, like in a blender and the key is to drain fast before they stop moving.
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Great video, with an excellent testing protocol. As a former middle school science teacher, i really appreciate your thoroughness and detailed explanation. I know that you mention planning sensor testing. Please also consider a comparison between the back flush device you used and the built-in black tank rinser. The rinser has the advantage of being used while dumping the tank initially.
thank you sir, and I think I will be doing that test soon.
Thank you for doing this test to help us who love full time in our RV. Having an RV that has a black tank flush system, jets that help clean the edges of the tank, has helped with clearing the solids out of my black tank.
Seeing this test in real life really helps solidify 😂 that a black tank flush helps clear out the unwanted solids.
Another video that I watched that I have seen that I think helps is before moving from site to site is dumping a bag of ice into the tank from the toilet right before move day to help break up anything on the sides of the tank. Especially if you do not have a black tank flush system.
Thank you again and God bless your family. You have helped us learn the RV life. ❤
Chris, since you full time try rinsing the tank several times when emptying. Use 5 gallons each time and rinse 5-10 times and you will have a clean tank. This is easy to do since you have a jet system. You may decide to quit using additives all together! I use borax and pine cleaner.
thank you Christopher!
Solidify 😂 I saw what you did there 😂
Thanks for a great demonstration. We have a 9 gal black tank in our pull behind.( yes, only 9 gal) I have been using an enzyme treatment (different brand) and we have been rinsing, but I think we need to rinse more.
thats small, but the good news is that rinsing and rerinsing a few times shouldnt take long at all! safe travels!
All I have to say is a big THANK YOU for making this video. I've been wondering which way is better. I've have used both products.
you bet!
Great video, I was actually surprised to see the differences. I think if I were to do anything different, it would be to find long shallow totes that more accurately replicate a black or grey tank. I think the results of the first dump would mirror the video, but it would be interesting to see how the backfill cleared a longer tank where the pressure of the back fill wasn’t as strong.
love your picture! i agree the different shapes of the tanks will probably produce slightly different results, but not all black tanks are shallow either. more videos are coming! amzn.to/3SderSc
Great test and video! My typical routine is to use the Kleen Tank recipe + Unique or Liquified + 2-3 flushes at every dump. Your video seems to support that regimen. Thanks a lot!
I agree I've been RVing for over 30 years full time for 8 years and I only use RV-Digest It and use my built in flush 2 or 3 times and my tank is as clean as it possibly can be. I can say you can see the clean black bottom in my tank through the toilet after dumping, all the proof I need. Great video to let people that don't know. 😊✌️
Thanks for sharing!
Fantastic video, as usual. I've tried several treatments over the years and have settled on Liquefied for a while now. I did try the KleenTank recipe, two gallons worth. The first thing that jumped out at me is that the calgon settled out so quickly. I had to really shake it before use. If it's settling in my jug, I'm sure it's settling in my tank. The other problem is my sensors always worked, that is until I started using the KleenTank. Needless to say, I'm back to Liquefied. Two of my my three sensors have started reading correctly.
thats a great point, the jug is sitting in my garage and all the calgon has settled to the bottom. keep me posted if you discover anything else Joe!
I use water only and it’s worked the best. I would love to see you demonstrate a water only approach. Great video content.
im thinking there may be more of these videos to come.
Great test, thanks. It appears to me that there is much more residue stuck to the top of the "liquified" tank walls. I wonder if applying the surfactant and completely filling the tank with water would coat the walls, and then the liquified would be more effective.
im not worried about the residue. im worried about the massive pile of stuff left at the bottom of the surfactant tank, but I do have more videos coming testing the sensors that we'll be adding.
I was impressed with your clear planning and controlling variables for the tests. I have a macerator toilet and macerator pump in my coach, so I totally believe in liquifying. I was also happy to see that the extra time I am taking to flush the black tank on every dump. Sadly, I just don’t think that this area of RV engineering is advanced enough. Why do not we have middle bottom release valves? Wouldn’t let gravity to help insure we maximize drainage? I assume that it would require more head room etc, but we should try to design better. Lastly, the sprayers that flush black tanks need to be better engineered too. I think build up and heat ruins the effectively of the sprayers over time and therefore almost defeats the purpose. Wish I could see inside, but I cant and I am told by flushing services that they won’t to mine because of the macerator, which I think is BS, but I don’t argue. Thank you so much for sharing! 😅
i wondered the same thing about bottom drains, there must be a reason, I just cant figure it out.
Just curious if the shape and depth of the test tanks actually portray RV tanks, which are much slimmer by design. Seems that a longer, slimmer tank would drain better. There is no question the more water the better the result. Great demonstration that accurately depicts gravity type holding tanks and emphasizes tank flushing is paramount! Great video.
Jason, I think the shape of the tank will definitely affect how it empties, but black tanks are not always longer or slimmer in real life. Here's an picture of one similar to these bins: amzn.to/4d44sXA
I think I'm going to do some research, find around what the "average" shape of a black tank would be, order something similar to that then do more tests... its very difficult to create a perfect test on black tanks, even when using the real "stuff" there are so many other factors like tank size, shape, personal diets, temperatures, etc.... no matter what you do, this will never be a "perfect" test, but with viewer input i plan on doing more tests, and at the end of the day, i think we'll have at least a VERY good idea of what works best to get things out, and keep things clean and working.
@@RVTIPSANDTRAVELS look forward to your next video!
Excellent demonstration. I noticed the rhino was hooked up to direct angle to tank. My rig has a 3 foot pipe and 90 degree angle. Will this lessen the back fill pressure from the rhino blaster?
probably a little, and im doing more tests with actual black tanks and piping off the exit valve, so we will see. however, the goal is to get water in the tank... the agitation may help, but im guessing the more important thing is getting water in there to flush.
Very good visual demonstration on what happens draining the tank. My only concern is that thenway you uave this setup, the rhino blaster is spraying water directly into the tank making for very nice agetstion inside. On my camper however, the way the drain pipe is designed, there is an 90 degree just before where the drain hose hooks up. I think this would take away the vast majority of potential agitation inside the tank. On the other hand, it still makes for an easy way to refill/flush the tank a second or third time without having to go back inside.
thanks Mike, the agitation may help a little, but the purpose is just getting water in the tank. once you dump a 2nd time, the agitation (or lack of) is minimal in producing the same results. I'm building more tanks with additional piping on the end, more videos to come, hope you check them out.
James from The Fit RV did something similar but with many more iterations. Looking more at how tank cleaning solutions, ie tank sprayers, blasters, etc. the end result is that blasters may not work in every case because of the plumbing between the point where it's joined and the actual tank. He also tested the ice/dawn method and a few others
In the end, a built in tank sprayer that acts like a rotating shower head was most effective at removing all solid waste.
i watched all those videos, he did a great job with them. I actually referenced them in another black tank video I made. I will be doing more tests with all the standard equipment along with some of the treatments that werent available back when he made those videos.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge, tips and tricks. Black tank maintenance is not a glamorous part of RVing but it is a must. I enjoy watching and learning from your videos. Thanks again
I hoped it helped, more black tank videos are coming!
I know the test isn’t for odors, but I will say from personal experience that Liquified is terrible for odors. It’s good for liquifying solids, but if you’re looking for something that kills odor, there is nothing that beats Happy Camper. Great video
I will add to that... the scent of the surfactant is strong, even after the tank was full. however, it smells like an amusement park bathroom after it had just been cleaned. thats the best way I can describe it, very antiseptic, but not something I would want lingering in my RV. I havent ever had odors with the few treatments I use, but i think thats a combination of keeping my tank clean and always keeping a healthy amount of water over the ball valve as a vapor barrier. Thanks for commenting my friend.
We usually start our black tank off with Happy Camper and then add Liquified if the odor becomes a problem during long boondocking stays and this method works well for us. We also use Liquified in our gray tanks and that works well too.
Thank you for doing a well ordered and visual test. After years of using Happy Camper (one brand) I just tried the PineSol/Calgon method on my last 2 trips after cleaning my tank extensively to start the change - now my sensors are back to being clogged and useless and had to flush 4-5 times to get most of the solids out. Going back to stuff that break downs the solids again. Thanks, you video helped me make an informed decision.
Thanks Neil, I used to use happy campers as well, never had odors, but i dont think it breaks down solids all that well. Maybe I will test it.
This was excellent. I was surprised at how much waste was left behind and both of the tanks by simply draining. My next request is that you do the same or a similar demonstration, but using an installed tank back flush as are found on many RVs rather than one that goes through the hose. On my RV, the path between the bottom of the tank and the hose outlet has many twists so I am not sure that an external hose would do much good. But I do have a built-in tank spray that seems to do a good job. I usually leave it running for about five minutes, after the tank is empty, or until the water runs clear. I wonder if there’s still is being left behind and I should run even longer!
i will be doing more videos... i think the black tank flush port turned on while the tank drains are open to the sewer is probably only running water across the top of everything. So while it may look clear coming out, it doesnt mean there isnt stuff in the tank. many more videos are coming.
What about using the built in black tank rinsing port? Is that as effective as using the backfill attachment?
not entirely sure, but that video is coming.
Great video!! I feel clean tank does make things smell better, but clearly liquify works well. To avoid issues, maybe use both???
i wont disagree that the pine sol has a very strong odor, unfortunately to me it smells like the bathroom at an amusement park in the summer that was just cleaned. its pretty pungent. the liquified has a surfactant built in too.
I have not read all the comments, so my question comes from the tank rinse nozzles that have been plumbed in to aid in rinsing. How effective are they and what is your feeling towards them. I have one and use on the last day of our trips. I do add more water to help rinse the tank when I need to dump, but not a full rinse. A full rinse comes at the end of our trip before we head home or to our next destination. Thanks for your tests and info you provide, a happy camper.
Many have asked this question... remember the rinser attachment is used to put water back in the tank. Depending on the specific RV sewer pipe plumbing, it may not be a direct shot back into the black tank, so the water in the tank may not be as agitated as it was in the video when backfilling. The agitation is not really what we are trying to accomplish. Yes, its a bonus if it moves things around in the tank a little, but the real point is to just get water back in that tank so you can flush it. So, using a black tank flush port, a 5 gallon bucket to pour water into the tank, or the rinser to backfill the tank will all do what we really need to happen: get water back in the tank so we can flush and rinse. The nice thing about the rinser attachment is its quicker than the flush port, easier than the bucket method, and you can rinse your gray tanks as well. Hope that helps!
Didn’t read all the comments…sorry. I use the Sani Flush on the side of my rig not the rhino Blaster. Any significant difference? I would think not. Thanks for the content, great channel!
I agree, I think the key is just getting water back into the tank so you can flush and rinse.
In our toy hauler rental business, we always used liquifiers (the blue stuff that comes in packets, supposedly biodegradable). We had about 12 trailers at our height. We would put it in, add a little water over the top, drive (tow) the trailer around a bit so the liquids in there slosh about in the tank, then hours or a day later, whichever we would hook up the black hoses and open it up. Of course that's the ideal procedure, every situation is different, sometimes a client would already have put the liquifier in before returning the trailer, etc..
So far this is what you're thinking / expecting. But we'd also get a garden hose and have someone turn on the water while another person is standing over the toilet holding the foot pedal down, spraying water into the tank through the toilet. This would tend to at least partially resolve the issues discussed here. We did not know all of what you just showed in this excellent video.
Your rinse device is a rough equivalent to what we were doing, I suppose. But another thing to purchase. An added advantage is that you don't need to get a second person to help you, or kink a hose and dribble water on linoleum floors. I would never use that water hose for anything other than the black water tank rinse though. However you can probably say the same of the garden hose if you ever get it too close to the toilet bowl.
Also you stated something incorrect at the start of the video. You said something along the lines of, "you can't see into the tank..." This is incorrect, at least with the Toy Hauler trailers we had, as usually the toilet was directly over the black water tank, if you really wanted to you could get a flash light and look straight down into the tank. (gross.. :-) ) We had Curtis, Baja, Forest River Toy Haulers. (baja is a curtis product if I remember correctly)
I'm not familiar enough with RV design to say whether they deliberately place the black water tank under the toilet in every design, I'm guessing in most cases but not all cases. The grey water and fresh water tanks can just have hoses run to them, so they can be placed anywhere along the bottom of the trailer.
Good video over-all! It clarified some things about ... remains ... staying on the bottom of the tank.
Thank you.
thanks Roger, i most black tanks are under the toilet, but i know that there are quite a few that arent either.
This appears to be an accurate assessment of what happens in the tank, well thought out. I usually dump everything when the grey gets 3/4 full. I have a tank sprayer on both, I typically rinse the grey tank once, and the black 2-4 times, 70 gal grey 40 gal blk. During the rinse on both, I'll fill to 3/4 with the sprayer on watching the sensor, I also time it as my water pressure is always the same as a backup to the sensor indicator. I've always used TST tank treatment no apparent issues. However after watching this I can use liquify for about 1/2 the cost per treatment. While I'm not disappointed in tst, but why not cut costs that are literally flush down the sewer. Thank you for a great video and the education..
thanks for watching and sharing!
Can we all agree, since a picture is worth a thousand words, that even though the surfactant based approach doesn't liquify or break things down, the tank walls are way cleaner after only a single fill and flush compared to the liquify approach.
Now some of the biggest issues with tanks are sensor failures and most commonly is a result of stuff being stuck to the sensor.
For overall tank management if I can only use 1, I'm going with the surfactant approach, especially if I have full service available. However, a combination of the two will give you the best overall outcome.
Regardless of what approach you use, the most important part is by far rinsing the tank properly.
It could be the reason there was nothing stuck to the walls in the surfactant tank is because nothing was broken down into liquid. its going to be difficult for any of the bananas or pieces of dog food to stick to the wall and defy gravity. in my personal opinion, the surfactant did nothing to coat the walls and the reason i say this is because if you watch you will notice toilet paper sticking to the side of the surfactant tank. wet toilet paper, unlike a heavier solid, is so light that its surface tension would be much stronger than the pull of gravity. i would agree that rinsing is the key though. either way, i could see choosing both methods, and more video tests will be coming in the spring. thanks for watching bud.
What a great video. I have been filling my tank 2 to 3x and flush every time. Just in case because I don't see inside the tank.
same here
Excellent video and demonstration. Thank you for your very detailed process and documentation. We switched to from happy camper to liquify and attached a flow totalizer to the tank wash hose. After about 20 gallons of flush after a dump the water is pretty clear again.
My previous process was to not flush after every black tank dump, then flush during camp breakdown. I also followed the risky practice of closing the black tank valve while flushing with the tank flush. Never had issues with odors or false tank levels but I much prefer the better method of spray washing the tank after each black tank dump.
I wonder what the in tank flush system would look like in assisting with solid removal. With the rhino rinse attachment you would be limited to flushing after the liquid has been drained, whereas with the installed tank flush one could flush while draining which I theory would break the solid mass apart plus add liquid back in to assist with solid removal.
Excellent video. Thank you.
Thanks Rick, sprayers are on their way here, more tests coming!
@@RVTIPSANDTRAVELS that will be epic. Thank you.
If able to reconstruct this test condition I would be curious of tank sprayer function for the following: a) commence tank spray after tank has been drained and b) commence tank spray while tank is being drained.
Thank you for doing this video. Either last year or the year before I switched to Matt's liquefied. I've been pleased. Prior to that for several years I use borax and Dove soap mixture. That worked very well too and I think the odor was more controlled with that mixture. But I do like the liquefied by Matt
thank you, hope it helped!
Back flushing is the takeaway here. It is less important what product is used to break down solids, than making sure to back flush regularly. The Valterra Flush King also works well. Back fill 15-20 gallons, drain, repeat, done. It also helps to have a sprinkler in the tank. Doesn’t hurt to also back flush the gray tank occasionally.
agreed
Notice the sidewalls of your totes in the video. The Kleen tank solution was much cleaner. I have noticed since switching to the solution about a year ago that my tank sensors work much better than when I used solutions that break down waste.
i would agree Harold, but its not something I talked about because i wanted to focus on the purpose of the test, which was overall removal. the surfactant tank side walls were cleaner, but i think that has nothing to do with the surfactant itself, it just happened because nothing was broken down in that tank. in fact, the surfactant tank had a piece of toilet paper stuck to the side wall, so i dont think the surfactant really works at all. are you rinsing your tanks after you dump?
@@RVTIPSANDTRAVELS yes, I try to use my black tank flush every time I empty the tank. It definitely helps keep the sensors clean.
my sensors still work by just doing 1 - 30 gallon rinse. you can see this around the 4 minute 30 second mark in this video: ua-cam.com/video/Q7ZJzfimLwg/v-deo.html
Great video and thanks for the effort of creating it. I do think you are overlooking a point that KT makes. If you compare the sidewalls of the tanks after the dump or after the rinse, the KT is much cleaner. The liquified tank had significantly more residue left behind. Over time, this can cause issues with the sensors.
I'm not making an argument for either method, just making an observation.
Additionally, it would be an interesting video to see the affects of using the tank rinsing system on any left behind bits.
i wont disagree the sides look cleaner, but i think that has more to do with liquifying the waste. the paste will stick. in the surfactant tank, since we are not liquifying anything that would require an entire banana to stick to the side, maybe thats extreme, but you get the point i think. when you let the bottle of surfactant sit for a day, all of the calgon sits at the bottom, so im not sure how effective it really is in coating the entire tank. another reason i dont think the surfactant works is because a piece of TP stuck to the side of the tank. just my thoughts, but im with you, after doing this test, rinsing was the key. thanks guys!
Very enlightening video! Thanks for the attention to detail and thoroughness!
Would be interesting to see a side by side comparing how well different liquifiers do their job 😉
more video tests are coming
Great video Ross last year I tried the Kleen tank method did not work I recently purchased the liquified pods have not used them yet I have a trip coming up on another note you can market those as a new portable potty 🚽 just need a dometic toilet on the lid lol 😂👍
thanks Corey, I would encourage everyone using the Kleen Tank recipe to rinse and see what they find. I could not find anywhere Kleen Tank recommended to backfill and rinse.
@@RVTIPSANDTRAVELS ya neither I have I think they recommend that after they perform that service on the trailer I actually poured a full gallon of that mixture in my gray tank hopefully to clean the sensors with 20 gallons of water and drove 5 hours and did not make any difference I’m hoping the liquified may work it may not I put it in the gray and black tank thanks Ross
The Kleen tank company does state several applications are needed before it works as they claim-to build up the slickness on the walls. The same is said for the dawn/Borax mixture…several applications needed
is that on their website? I dont see it anywhere.
Great video. Sounds like the best way to go would be to drain the tank, close the valve, flush for a short period of time to add some water, then flush while draining again to remove remaining solids? (Just be very careful not to leave the flush on while drain is closed)!
👍
I'm so glad you made this video. I've been on the fence as to which method is best. You totally proved which is best. I'm going to continue using my one that breaks down solids. 😋❤
That said, I am curious which flush method you think works better. The built-in tank flush lines in a black water tank, or the Camco setup? I have a built in system on my '06 Thor Transport by Tahoe 3450S toyhauler. But if the Camco is the better way to go then I'd definitely consider adding it to my arsenal. I'm full time living in it where I only have 50amp service and a faucet that i run my hose to in order to fill my two 65 gallon on board fresh water tanks. I have two 65 gallon grey water tanks and one 65 gallon black water tank. It has the flush system on it. I'm fortunate that I have two Camco Rhino 36 gallon sewer totes. Which gives me room at capacity on my black water tank to be able to flush with 7 gallons. I haul them to a nearby dump station. Any expert advice from you would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance! 😊
more videos are coming testing in tank rinsers.
@RVTIPSANDTRAVELS My 5th wheel toyhauler is a 2006 Thor Transport by Tahoe 3450S. I have no clue how the tank rinser in it is even designed. I've looked around the net some. But I have yet to find anything that even describes how these rinsers are designed. If in your coming videos you could shed some light on that, I'd be very grateful. I like seeing how something is designed it helps in understanding not only how it works but also how its design effectively gets the job 100% or not. By the way a video on how to clean / repair tank sensors would be fantastic. My are erratic at best, at least the ones that seem to work. Lol. Thanks in advance. 😁