How To Make Cheap Guitar Pickups Sound Great for Less Than $1 (Ceramic to Neodymium)
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- Опубліковано 6 вер 2016
- This is not a long winding repetitious all-talk video. This is a complete no-nonsense actual demonstration tutorial on how to replace a pickup's ceramic bar magnet with neodymium disc magnets. Neodymium magnets are very powerful and only one thin disc is needed for each pole piece. The magnets used in this video are 5mm in diameter with 1mm thickness. Thicker magnets can be used for more magnetic power but stacking thin magnets can achieve the same power. Stacking thin magnets also has the advantage of giving greater flexibility in adjusting magnetic strength.
It is important to closely match the diameter of the magnet to the diameter of the pole pieces. Using a 6mm diameter magnet on a 5mm diameter pole piece would not be efficient. Likewise, using a 5mm diameter magnet on a 6mm diameter pole piece would also be inefficient.
View simulations of the possible magnetic flux density field of the different configurations of pole pieces with neodymium disc magnets, here:
• Magnetic Field Simulat... - Навчання та стиль
John, not only your video is excellent but also your replies are highly informative and a must for everybody intending to accomplish this type of mod. Thanks a lot for sharing your knowledge!
Wow ! I am totally amazed . I have had a few guitars with ceramic bar pickups , I always bought new alnico pickups and gave away the old pickups . I guess I never considered exactly how pickups are put together ! Thanks for opening up my eyes ! I wish I would have seen this video 30 years ago ! It would have saved me a ton of money ! I would love to hear before and after sound sound tests . Thank You so so much ! After watching this , the possibilites are endless for custom pickups and magnet combinations . You can't screw anything up because the stock bar magnets sound so bad I usually just discard them !
Thank you! Great tutorial. I've upgraded two guitars so far. To save your iron, use a piece of parchment paper to cover the surface before melting the wax on the pickup. The plastic varnish is genius!
Excellent instructional! Thanks because I have a parts box full off old strat pups and was about to order a set of neo's. Awesome!
Great! Watch my other video on magnet simulation ua-cam.com/video/qmNLeBWowp8/v-deo.html and read the description to know what to expect. Try the other configurations and go for the sound that you like. Good luck!
I thought this was a great video. Straight to the point! I tried it, and your technique works as you said! Perfect! . Thanks John!
Thank you. I'm glad to hear the modification turned out well for you.
Is there a video where we can hear and watch the result.... ? 😊
I came here for ideas and left with knowledge and a good laugh after reading a few idiotic comments with absolute god level responses. Definitely got a sub as well. Thank you sir, I recently (in the last week) started messing with guitars again. I can’t play for the life of me but I plan on learning, it started with me buying a guitar for my 11yo daughter and now I’m the owner of 4 partially clapped out old guitars that I plan on giving a new life. Her tele is staying untouched other than her playing it but mine I plan on making into better instruments with complete disregard of originality. I love the hack and I’ll definitely be trying it once I get a new set of pickups just in case I screw something up.
Hi there amigo. Thanks for the great video, well presented, easy to follow good instructions, no BS narrative. I would've loved to hear the finished result. Please do a follow up sound demo of the upgrade.
The method works well. Two things: I agree that using the iron will deteriorate the bar magnet, so keep that in mind if you intend to use it again. Additionally, be aware that some strat-style coils are wound directly around the pole pieces, so remove them at your own risk!
Fantasic, you answered my only process related question in the description. Great vid. Only one other question sorry if its overly noobish but will this be the same for humbuckers? Never seen inside one before.
Pretty cool. Alternatively, you could drill 6 magnet-sized holes in a popsicle stick that match the pole piece spacing, and glue the ends on the pickup. Cover the magnets with some strong tape. It would make disassembly a lot easier if you decided to re-use the magnets.
If I was to replace the 6 whole pickup slug rods would I still llneed little magnets behind them? Also what is the size of them rods?
GREAT VID & VERY TECHNICLY SOUND WITH SMART TIPS .....THANKS
Thank you sir for your kind words.
Did I miss the part where you made sure the magnets were reverse polarity on the middle pickup or did the simple act of holding them in place on the clean side do that for you?
You are awesome man. Great vid
I saw that, Labyrinth on youtube!! Awesome soundtrack! That has stuck in my head since i was maybe 5 years old....... Oh and thanks for this video!!
i didn't see the disc mags that you put in.can you add another vid with this in it?
Brother hey - your video really helped me so thanks very much
I'm glad to hear that. Thank you.
Does neodymium magnet bar works too or it absolutely needs to be disc magnets?
Where can i get the little neodymium magnets?
great...but a sound test would have been nice
yes, before and after, we can not be sure if he bettered then or not
he didn't test the bars for N/S configuration before installing. Likely to sound STRANGE
@@dehved hope it gets fixed...would love to hear it
Where can I buy the better magnet? What size ?
A skillful use of common tools to achieve an uncommon upgrade: this is genius. Thank you for including several "why" explanations. These prevent me from having to learn from mistakes. Yeah, I would have used hot melt glue.
Dr. G
Einstein is a genius. I am not. I merely picked up on the ideas of other people from the Music Electronics Forum, I researched and experimented, and came up with this simple procedure. It's not my original idea. Anyway, thank you for the compliment. I'm glad that you liked my tutorial.
Yeah, I probably use genius a bit too much, but I am impressed when someone learns to do something so well that they can explain it simply. Einstein might have said: I merely picked up Newton's ideas from the Principia Mathemateca forum, I researched the Michaelson-Morley experiment, and made some simple mathematical adjustments. It's not really an original idea. The same process you used.
Anyway, I just bought 200 of these (cheap) magnets to experiment with some of my ceramic magnet guitars.
Thanks, brother,
Dr. G
I appreciate what you're getting at but you're stretching the argument too far and it really doesn't fit. As far as this tutorial is concerned, it all comes down to the fact that I just chose to use common sense. Most people choose to ignore it.
I can see that you grasped the concept of this tutorial very well, that this is only the bare basic idea of the pickup modification. That explains why you bought a lot of magnets. It can get quite interesting and complicated (not really complicated although sounds intellectually challenging) when you place the magnet in between the ends of the pole pieces and/or use other magnetically permeable material or mix different kinds of ferro magnetic material and/or magnet configuration to contour the magnet field propagation.
Good luck on your quest for a better "tone" on the practical and cheap side of the equation.
thanks John , Good Work ,, I read most of this & your long reply .. I didn't see any reference to how they change the sound ,, the increase output = volume ,,frequency harmonic content of the string & resistance in Ohms.. ( which is fairly indicative of how it might sound.. low = sounds vintage & clear ,,, high Ohm resistance = sounds brighter ,, etc. as a locked in gtr tweeker , I guess a sound comparison would help ,, Ohm readings ,, that' where I think there could be more info,, thanks again., Nigel Tufnels hot rodded gtr would be a challenge.. he he he.
What size are the magnets?
I enjoyed watching this most interesting video, and I have to say, with all respect to other videos, I appreciated your LACK of narrative, relying only on the subtitles to describe your actions. So many others get very redundant trying to make their points; one's tempted to fast forward and say, "I GET it! I GET it!" There was something relaxing about having the open sound, complete with roosters and other great critters, but minus the talking-it-out, that makes it more like looking over your shoulder without being "talked AT." KUDOS! And a great procedure seemingly made fairly simple.
My only question: You're clearly very detail-oriented and precise. I appreciated the Popsickle stick precaution in removing the magnets, for example. And cleaning the iron later... great! Having done this procedure as many times as you have, when tapping out the pole pieces, I'm surprised you haven't made some sort of a simple jig to support the underside edges of a pickup (of course allowing space for the poles to come through) in a vise (or something), to hold the pickup MUCH more securely at that point, rather than merely using the loosely-open jaws of some channel locks. That was pretty wobbly for what I'd think is a relatively delicate operation. Just sayin'. At the same time, as you said, your whole concept is to keep it simple, and that you did beautifully.
Lastly, I was sorry to see the pissing contest in the comments section, but what it did do was bring out the high technical knowledge that you and others have of magnetism, inductance, pickup construction and many other physics concepts of which most guitarists have only limited, if any knowledge. That was very interesting - even seeing the differing sides of it all. I must say, again, your argument ("legalese," not anger) seems to make the most sense, very well thought out and described. Your knowledge, and that of others, is most impressive. I learned more than just how to beef up a Strat pickup! Thank you! Cheers!
Thank you very much for such kind words. I'm really glad you like my video presentation.
Cheap pickups are quite sturdy. The only thing that is delicate in a pickup is the magnet wire of the coil. But most of the time, the mounting wires are soldered inside the coil, which is covered by at least 2 layers of tape, so there are no exposed thin wires. In some pickups where lead magnet wires are exposed, they are usually routed in a groove on the bobbin and covered in wax, just like expensive alnico pickups. The thinnest part of the bobbin is around 0.8mm thick and the top is thinner than the bottom. You can tap the pole pieces from the top but if you miss, you can chip or crack the bobbin. Tapping from the bottom is safer. There is no need to provide support to the bobbin because much of the the force is directed on the pole piece and very little is distributed to the bobbin, unless it is stuck with rust or you miss hitting the pole piece. The bobbin is usually made from acrylic or HDPE (I think). You can toss the pickups around, just don't abuse them.
After the magnet is removed from the pickup, the pole pieces are being held only by residual glue from the magnet and paraffin wax, aside from their snug fit in the bobbin holes. While the glue and wax are still warm, the pole pieces will slide out with little effort. In the video, I was just overly cautious because sometimes the pole pieces can still be uncomfortable to touch. It's better to err on the side of safety. Using a hammer was overkill but that was the first thing I saw on my table to use to tap the pole pieces but you can just push the pole pieces with a rod by hand. But I think tapping a rod gives better control. I do have a table vise in my other work table and I use it in a lot of things including pickup modification. But in laying out the procedure for this video, I had to consider that not everybody has a table vise. Besides, I have also used this method many times before and working light has its advantages.
Pickups are very simple devices but the underlying principles behind them are quite complex. However, it's easy to understand the basic things about them and you can get by with little knowledge. There's no need to make it appear complicated, mystical and expensive.
... Which is very appreciated! Thanks for your reply, John. I just figured it'd be easier, if not safer for the pickup, to hold the thing still somehow. But your point's well-taken. I do guitar & pedal mods myself (have some good ones for Gretsch models with the Standby Switches... Gretsch actually mis-engineered them!), and knowing the benefits of moving from the living room floor to a decent work table with the clamping devices I might need, I guess I appreciate them more than some!
By the way (a little off-topic, but...), from using the Gretsches I mentioned (I have 2) I've come to rely on having standby/mute switches in most of my guitars & basses! (It's SO simple - just a switch to short hot to ground at the output. I did more than that with the Gretsch Country Gentleman & its 3-way on/off/on switch. It's now off/on/on w add'l filter cap & well worth the effort!) The mute's especially useful when playing more than one instrument in live performance; you needn't change volumes when changing guitars, just turn it off. It's become vital in a Strat I use also with a Roland guitar synth. On more than one song, I'm switching between guitar & synth, & it's vital to be able to quickly turn the guitar off & on, so it's not playing when I use the synth. The "mix" selector on the synth pickup output is far too clumsy to make that switch quickly enough. Don't know why more guitars don't have 'em!
Anyway, another topic for another time. Thanks again for your MOST informative video, and all the following writing. Great stuff!
... Which is very appreciated! Thanks for your reply, John. I just figured it'd be easier, if not safer for the pickup, to hold the thing still somehow. But your point's well-taken. I do guitar & pedal mods myself (have some good ones for Gretsch models with the Standby Switches... Gretsch actually mis-engineered them!), and knowing the benefits of moving from the living room floor to a decent work table with the clamping devices I might need, I guess I appreciate them more than some!
By the way (a little off-topic, but...), from using the Gretsches I mentioned (I have 2) I've come to rely on having standby/mute switches in most of my guitars & basses! (It's SO simple - just a switch to short hot to ground at the output. I did more than that with the Gretsch Country Gentleman & its 3-way on/off/on switch. It's now off/on/on w add'l filter cap & well worth the effort!) The mute's especially useful when playing more than one instrument in live performance; you needn't change volumes when changing guitars, just turn it off. It's become vital in a Strat I use also with a Roland guitar synth. On more than one song, I'm switching between guitar & synth, & it's vital to be able to quickly turn the guitar off & on, so it's not playing when I use the synth. The "mix" selector on the synth pickup output is far too clumsy to make that switch quickly enough. Don't know why more guitars don't have 'em!
Anyway, another topic for another time. Thanks again for your MOST informative video, and all the following writing. Great stuff!
I get your point. I am a little apprehensive about using big metal tools on plastic devices. The possibility that the plastic will slip and break is too great. It is very difficult to estimate how much clamping force is enough before it begins to break. What I do is just to hold the rod with my thumb and index finger and the other three fingers secure the pickup against my palm and gently put pressure down on it towards the pliers acting as a wedge. If you find holding the pickup with 3 fingers against your palm a little difficult, place a piece of thick rag over the pickup.
I used to have a Chet Atkins Country Gentleman. It's a beautiful piece of art. I miss that guitar.
I think it would be better to have a kill switch pedal, which is very easy to make. Place that between your effects pedal board and the amplifier or mixer so that any noise coming from your pedal board will also be muted.
Good stuff, John. "In the hand" makes sense, too... there's a lot of control and "feel" there.
Yes, the Gent IS a piece of art, indeed. It's THE guitar that got me interested in guitars in the first place, when George played his on Ed Sullivan Show. Fascinating to me then, still is now!
The kill switch on the floor is good - I use the volume pedal for that kind of "Master." But often when I play live, I have 3 guitars (the Gent, Ric 360-12, & Strat) all plugged in to a mixer, then to pedals, then to the amp. (AC30) So I have to be able to mute 2 guitars while I play the 3rd or I'm almost sure to get one on a stand feeding back. Keeping them all plugged in & ready is a major time saver when switching instruments.
And as I said with the Strat, switching to the guitar between phrases on the Roland synth, sometimes very fast for just a phrase or 2, having that small switch on the lower horn is right where I need it. On the particular song I'm thinking of that's most "pedal intensive", "Hello Goodbye" with my Beatles tribute band (NO wigs or costumes, just The Music), I'm doing such a pedal dance on that, to add another would drive me to my grave! Between violins on the synth, then "clean" guitar for the legato slide, then the fuzz guitar line for the choruses, back & forth... it's a fun challenge, but that little switch literally makes it possible! There's no guitar through much of the song, only the violins, so for those all-important phrases, I can just turn it on when I need it, then off again. Pretty cool.
Thanks for your thoughts, John! Cheers!
what is the sound difference?
I tried this with some spare pickups I had. I had to be very careful with the string height as I was getting some very pronounced wolf tones. The plain G was worst, particularly if using a 'vintage stagger' pole height pattern. 5 level and a very slightly low G worked well.
I had better results with some alnico rod (4.95mm x 17mm) that I had lying around. it's available on ebay but a little pricier compared to neodymium.
Old-school ingenuity! What makes me grin, though:
Use a "crude" electric iron, but place extremely advanced smartphone with 4 gigs of RAM pretty darn close
to the iron, just to keep time! :)
John Doesn't , Why would adding Neodymium disc magnets make your ceramic pickups or alnico pickups sound more twangy?Any other modification you can do to pickups to make them sound more twangy, jangly, chimey like Rickenbacker pickups jangly tones?
saan mo nabili mga magnets?
watching at 3x actually worked out perfectly
Interesting modification bui what exactly does this do ? ..(.cleaner , louder ) Also I bought a trashed pawn shop Squire strat cheap just to learn and play with , and I found someone reworked the wiring for the pickups ..not sure why but oh well , they also .placed a extra bar magnet underneath the pickup mags maybe to get more power ..... the soldering looked like it was don by a first grader , I replaced it with a stratosphere loaded pickguard and it seems to be ok now . I think your Modification would be desirable for chickin pickin .lol
john doesn't,,, Out here in the Southern Hemisphere of Auckland New Zealand,,, I believe you mate, I read your statement and his, & have to say, yours is pretty plausible
Did you had try using neodymium magnet block rather than using disc type?
Brilliant!
Thank you!
Good tutorial vid thanks! You sure cut those pickup wires short when you took 'em outta your guitar! Whoops!
I guess THAT little red rooster wasn’t “ too lazy to crow for days “.😁
Good info and the hammer is of vintage quality.
Anyone made sound comparisons?
Very good....(video much better than pics).
Thank you!
Without a sound test I will have to listen the rooster again and again
I am gonna try this soon and see how bad I can mangle it - thanks for the clear steps and explanations, I'll need 'em
Have you tried this yet Rex ?
Won't that iron melt the enamel coating of the copper?
Glad I know how to read!
Good job John... Thank you very much for excellent demo.. Hmmm I wonder what magnet is on my Indonesian Squier ? I must try this one day..
Thank you. I am almost absolutely certain that a Squier has ceramic pickups.
Thanks.. Damn... I spelt Squier wrong !
Hi man, awesome video, i just have a question. Will this work on humbuckers? The ones where you can adjust the poles height with an allen key
Humbuckers’ two coils have reverse polarity from each other. If you match the polarity of the coils it should theoretically work. It would be fun to see your video on it. Cheers.
Watched it, and browsed comments, you are far kinder than I would be. Thanks for a cool and informative video, I may do this at some point.
Thank you. I would appreciate it if you will post any feedback when you make your modification.
Is it early in the morning when you did this?? According to the rooster 🐓 😂😂😂😴
Hey John, thanks for making the video and sharing it with the interweb. What tone differences have you noticed from this mod?I would like to DIY my pickups, just to hear if there's an interesting difference. Also I'm to poor to buy pickups. If I were to perform this mod on my Ibanez RG with V1, V7, V8 pickups what could I expect? More brightness, mid range boost...? Could this mod be performed on Humbuckers as well, if so, how does one do so. Looking forward to your answers. Cheers Eric.
Based on how I hear it, unlike ceramic pickups, which usually have very pronounced upper midrange frequencies (2-4 KHz) and strong midrange (500Hz - 2KHz), the neodymium modification as demonstrated in this video, with only one disc magnet at the bottom of the stock pole pieces, low midrange frequencies (250-500 Hz) are more pronounced and the midrange frequencies are stronger. Changing the material of the pole pieces (magnetic permeability) and/or their length will have an effect on the "tone" of the pickup. Also, magnet strength (number of magnets) as well as its location in the pole piece will also have an effect on the "tone" and the output power of the pickup. Watch my other video on magnet simulation (ua-cam.com/video/s0OZy8w8Pr8/v-deo.html) and read its description to get an idea of the other possibilities. Also, watch my new tutorial on using hardened steel as pole pieces (ua-cam.com/video/Zy_DmaYppns/v-deo.html). The magnet modification in my videos are very easy to do and if you are not satisfied with the result, you can try the other options for modification or revert back to the original ceramic magnet.
Humbuckers have different structures, and they usually have one set of adjustable screws that are mounted on a metal bar. Also, their pickup covers will prevent adding disc magnets directly under the pole pieces, unless you cut them. I haven't tried modifying humbuckers but I suppose the easiest way to modify them is to replace their ceramic magnets with a similar sized neodymium or alnico magnets. Either way, it will not be a cheap modification. There are several tutorials out there on how to go about magnet swap on humbuckers. You may want to view or read about them.
I am wondering if by taking the pole pieces out if you don't scrape the wire insulation off and get shorts.
Short answer: No. Coils of ceramic pickups are wound in plastic bobbins, unlike alnico pickups, which are wound directly over the pole pieces that are held by phenolic boards called "flatwork". Not to be flippant, but, bobbins are bobbins. The confusion is caused by guitar parts suppliers who refer to alnico pickup phenolic boards as "bobbin flatwork". In coil construction, a bobbin is a material that secures the coil and separates it from the core. It is sometimes called a "coil former" or "coil mount". So, a "flatwork" is not a bobbin because it is just a board that functions as a flange to keep the coil from slipping beyond the core, which is the pole pieces, and it also keeps the pole pieces in place. So, why are parts sellers creating this confusion? Probably to make cheap boards appear unique, more functional and make it sound expensive.
Good One! It would be nice to have heard a comparison:)
Thanks! I still don't have a spare guitar to make recordings of a before and after the modification. See my other video on magnet simulations ua-cam.com/video/s0OZy8w8Pr8/v-deo.html and read the description to get an idea on what to expect.
Great method
Thank you.
Could it be replaced w an alnico set of magnets?
Thanks
2:30pm Phil.
Yes, indeed.
Cool idea! I would really like to hear what is sounds like.
yes a before / after would have been good
1/4 x 1/16 or 1/4 x 1/8 or what?
I think I will do this with some cheap ass pickups I got just lying around.(I wondered what I was gonna do with them.)
Are these 3x3 neodymium magnets? They are available in different sizes though
The magnets used in this video are N52 5mm diameter x 1mm thickness.
It would be great if you would tell us where to get the Magnets ..please ?
You ("us") have asked that question, in one form or another, several times already and I have answered all of them. One of you ("us") have even graciously provided a link.
I'm just wondering ... What did you do exactly but set off and set up the pickups ? What change did you do ?
The objective is to change the "tone" of the pickup by changing: (1) the magnet; and (2) the pole pieces (although the video merely demonstrated the changing of the magnet, this was suggested in the options for the pole pieces). Technically, this is really changing the frequency response of the pickup as an inductor by the changing the core of the coil. Differences in the in the characteristics of the magnet (mass, shape, energy, etc.) and the pole pieces (mass, shape, permeability, etc.) will give rise to a different frequency response curve. In my point of view, replacing the ceramic bar magnet with neodymium disc magnets will give the pickup a better "tone". The change in "tone" also depends, among other things, on where you place the magnet (bottom, middle or top) and how many you will use.
Is this method the same for precision pickups in a bass? Mine have a ceramic bar magnet in the bottom so it theoretically would be the same in approach though I am wondering if the location of the pickups relative to each other might impact the tone due to them being very close. Either way thank you John for this very helpful video.
This modification should work with the pickups of a Precision Bass. I haven't tried it but I suggest that you put magnets on the top and bottom of the pole pieces instead of putting them on the bottom only. That should give the sound more "definition" and still maintain a clear "bottom" or bass sound. But you should secure the magnet on top with a stronger adhesive.
Reminds me of my childhood. My father used to keep chickens in a pen in the back yard. Glad you don't keep monkeys!!!!
Thanks for sharing john. this is a great project. I have tried it but the output of the neodymium was much weaker than the ceramic, even when stacked. maybe I got a low quality neodymium.
Yes, the output of the modified pickup has a much lower output than when it had ceramic magnets. It's output volume should be like an old Alnico 2. But compared with its ceramic tone, it should now have a more "defined" middle range. It would also help if you clean the point of contact between the neodymium magnet and the pole pieces. As much as possible, there should be as much bare metal to metal contact. It is also possible that one or two magnets have their polarities reversed
If you really want a high volume output, try putting the neodymiums on top but that would change its "tone" as well. When placed on top, secure the magnets to the pole pieces with a stronger adhesive. If you strike it strong enough with a pick, it might fly off. If you get weird tones, lower the pickup height.
Hope this helps.
thanks for the reply john. the problem could be the reversed polarity.I had problem to tell the polarity because the neodymium magnets would stick to the ceramic magnet either side.
really interesting mod.. I love tweeking guitars... I just bought a really cheap strat copy .. with one pice neck & 3 piece body .. the woods are great , but the PUs are brittle & toppy .. searching around for mods..
why can't you just put Neo Dymium disc magnets straight on top of the pole pieces... ?... & lower the entire PU to compensate height... or will the strings stick to them ?..
Of course, you can place neodymium disc magnets on top of the pole pieces without removing the ceramic bar magnet but you will not get the same "tone" if you follow the modification procedure in this video. The strings will not stick to the magnets. it's more likely that they will dislodge with strong picking.
2 magnets per peg wont fit in my guitar, so before you go through the extra trouble of trying to put two on without them all coming together make sure it will still fit, or router the hole deeper.
Hi John, do you have any idea if for the cheap pickups with whole ceramic piece magnet on the bottom if I split it in 2 from the middle and position it on the sides of the coil instead of the botton could it improve the sound too ? I see that some good fender pickups have 2 lines of ceramic magnets on the sides of the coil instead of just 1 whole piece on the bottom, any idea ?
"Improve" is a relative term and is very subjective. A more appropriate word is "change". When I started experimenting with pickup modifications, I also tried making a P-90-ish modifications on cheap single coil pickups. I replaced the pole pieces with 1008 round steel bar cut to length to make contact with the magnets. The challenge was how to cut the magnet lengthwise in two equal parts, without losing mass and without breaking it into smaller pieces. I decided to buy neodymium bar magnets instead but they broke before I could test the setup extensively. The sound was powerful because of the neodymiums and had characteristics somewhere between a humbucker and a traditional single coil. I am currently experimenting on this P-90-type of modification. I might make a video after I have finished trying the different configurations. But this is a weekends-only project and I have several different projects ongoing simultaneously. So it may take a while.
The P-90-type modification entails more work and costs more than the modification in this video. But if you have a chop saw or an angle grinder with a cutting wheel, it will be a lot easier. A drill press will also be useful. Experiment on what works best for you.
Thanks for your kind answer John, good ideas, I will study this and try myself, thanks again
how do you cut the neodymium magnets to match the pole diameter?
It's not safe to cut or machine neodymium magnets. You buy neodymium magnets according to the specifications you need. Fortunately, the 5mm diameter magnets used in this modification are common.
can i just put the neo magz beneath the poles and glue them?
instead of removing the pols etc....
Yes sir, you can put the neodymium magnets at the bottom of the pole pieces right after removing the ceramic bar magnet. Before applying glue I suggest that you try putting one neodymium at the bottom first, then two neodymiums at the bottom, then one neodymium at the top. Go for the configuration that sounds best for you. Spread a light glue over the bobbin and neodymiums. Avoid putting glue in between the neodymiums and the pole pieces so that it will be easier to separate them if and when you decide to modify your pickups again. If you decide to put one neodymium on top, push the pole pieces in the bobbin just a little bit, so that the neodymium, or part of it is in the pickup cover, then apply a thin glue on the side between the pole pieces and the neodymiums. This will prevent the neodymiums from separating from the pole pieces in the event that you hit it with a pick while playing.
@@john.doesnt tell me, why did you even remove the magnet at all? simply sticking a neo magnet under it WOULD increase the pull just the same.
Thanks!
If you have questions or you encounter problems, don't hesitate to ask.
The magnets will clear up the sound some, but it will also lose a little output strength, and cut the highs just a bit. for just a little more cash (and a lot of time to do it by hand), you can strip the wire from your spool, and rewind with more coils, just keep an eye on the resistance, usually 1 or 2 k ohms more is enough, and do not keep a parallel wind (that increases capacitance, and creates a filtering effect). overwinding will increase the output as well, and give you crisper highs. if you are skilled, and have a vice, you can even use a variable speed drill (slower is easier to get a consistent wind). though this option is not for everyone. If you don't want to spend the big bucks, there are also some pickups on the net that sell for less than the big names, but will still net you a better sound (unless you are starting with a five or six hundred dollar guitar to begin with.
To increase the volume output, try using 2 or 3 disc magnets on each pole piece.
I wonder what the resistance readings were before and after. What N rating were the magnets?
Or is resistance solely a function of the winding? (Which didn’t change)
You are right about the DC resistance of the pickup. It did not change after the modification.
The magnet strength or "N" rating of the disc magnets used in the video is N35. But you can use a N52. Soundwise, an N52 will sound a little brighter than a N35. But an N35 will sound more "vintage-ish". In both cases, the magnet pull on the strings is negligible. With an N35 at the bottom of the pole piece, the Gauss level at the string is even less than an Alnico 3.
With respect to the physical properties, a N52 magnet is more brittle than a N35. N52 magnet will usually crack, or even shatter into pieces, if they pull on each other and slam strong enough. Tiny splinters may fly on to your eyes, so wear protective gear. N52 magnets are usually nickel coated.
Ma .....have you ironed my shirt and pickups yet....I've got a gig
Cool!
Hi. I really liked your video, thank you for sharing it. I'm considering on doing this to my pickups. But I have some questions for you, if you don't mind: Have you heard that you can remagnetize "old" rods and by that "revive" their tone? If you have, which method would you prefer for that purpose? And the last question: Which neodymium magnets did you use in your video, some N35s or N52s? I have this question because I can only find 5mm x 1mm N35, but no N52; but there are 5mm x 2mm N52 (so I think I'll use theese), would you say there is a "considerable" difference between some N35s and N52s magnets placed at the bottom of the pick up?
Albert Van Krieg, Regarding your first question, I'm sorry if I misunderstood you, but are you asking which is better between remagnetizing an old alnico magnet and putting a neodymium magnet on an alnico magnet? I haven't tried attaching neodymium magnets to alnico magnets because I'm still happy with the alnico pickups that I have, as they are. But comparing the sound of an alnico pickup to a neodymium modified ceramic pickup, the alnico sounded "fuller". However, this might not be a fair comparison. The alnico had a thicker coil, the wires are probably #42, while neodymium modified ceramic had a slimmer coil, with wires probably #43, or maybe thinner.
Regarding your second question on using 5mm diameter with 1mm thickness neodymium magnets, N52 will produce a stronger output that is somewhat "brighter" than a N35, which sounds warm and mellow. But a 2mm thickness N52 will have a noticeably boosted output than a 1mm thickness N52. As an alternative, you may opt to stack two 1mm thickness N35 if you think that a single 1mm thickness N35 too soft for your taste. Stacked two 1mm thickness N35 is not as "aggressive" as one 2mm N52. In the video, I used N52 5mm x 1mm magnets on stock pole pieces.
I hope I answered your questions. I'm glad you liked my video. Good luck with your modification!
Oh man, I don't know why but I wasn't notified when you answered. And yes, now that I've read my comment again I noticed that my questions are some confusing, haha, but you understood well. Thank you very much for taking your time answering to every one of my questions! And regarding the first two of them I was thinking more like "remagnetized/new alnico pickups vs neodymium modified ceramic pickups (with old rods)".
I don't know if I missed it in this thread.. but any insight for bass guitar pickups?
This pickup modification also works for bass pickups. Although I haven't tried it, I imagine that placing thin disc neodymium magnets on both ends of the pole pieces will sound better in basses.
I noticed you didn't do a radius alignment of the magnets/pole pieces with a neck radius guage. Why is that?
The height and/or length of the pole pieces are some of the variables enumerated in the video that can affect the output sound of a pickup and it is better left to the preferences of the viewer. This video shows the procedure to make the basic modification only since there are many variations in doing it.
Cool video and I love the wildlife sounds in the background! I felt like it was shot on Kauai with their wild chickens 😊
When you have removed the magnets from the bobbin, wouldn't that be a good time to pour hot wax or nail polish or something into the holes so as to fixate the innards of the pickup so that they do not vibrate, thereby making unwanted cacaphony and distorted ambient sounds?
Most of the time, the pole pieces are already "waxed in" the bobbin holes so you do not have to put wax in the stock pole pieces. But if you are going to replace the stock pole pieces, putting wax is an option to keep them from vibrating but do not apply wax on the neodymium magnets. Wax is applied hot and it might degrade the neodymium magnets. If you want to wax pot the coil, do it before placing the neodymium magnets but you have to scrape off all the wax at the bottom of the pole pieces to have a good coupling between the magnet and the pole pieces.
Someone just don't like stock squire bullet pickups. I don't blame you, I would have done the same only I have a good set of stock USA fender pickups from upgrading to vintage noiseless, so I have the option to just use those. I still might modify the stock pickups just for fun.
Is there a source for the Centro Plastic Varnish in the USA ?
TheRedhawke, You can use any brand of cheap (cheapest) plastic varnish. Don't use expensive super durable varieties like those made from polyurethane. Its purpose is merely to keep the disc magnets from sliding. The force of the magnet is strong enough to make it stick firmly to the pole pieces, as long as there is good magnetic coupling between them, that is, the point of contact is the maximum surface area possible. As an alternative, you can use water based enamel paint or white school/craft glue. Apply them as coating over the magnets and not as adhesive between the magnets and the pole pieces. They stick quite well to metals and plastic and they peel off when you scrape them. But I prefer using plastic varnish because it sets quickly so it doesn't flow in to areas that I don't want it to go and, when I want to further modify the pickup, it melts in denatured alcohol so it doesn't harm the plastic bobbin or the magnet wire insulation, if it ever gets in the coil. Essentially, you can use anything that sticks well to metals and plastic, but is easy to remove, except snot, boogers, and everything in between. Good luck on your project!
OK and thanks so much. I loved the video.
Could you replace the alnico magnets from a cheap pickup with the neodymium and get a better sounding sound.
If you have an Alnico pickup that does not sound good, maybe it only needs to be re-magnetized. But if you decide to change your Alnico pole pieces to Ferro magnetic pole pieces with neodymium disc magnets, make sure that your pickup has a plastic bobbin.
Changing Alnico pole pieces to Ferro magnetic pole pieces with neodymium disc magnets will change the sound or "tone" of the pickup. Whether the change in sound will be better is a matter of personal appreciation. The change will depend on the number (or size) of the magnets, the position of the magnets, the length of the pole pieces, and the permeability of the pole pieces. The size and form of the coil, as well as the size of the wire and the type of insulation used, also have an effect on how the change in sound will be. A tall and narrow coil will tend to be much "brighter" than a short and fat coil if you add more disc magnets at the bottom.
john doesnt... well thank you very much for such a very informative clip and quick response.
1st of all, grt video! You HAD to know the rooster was gonna get some attention. I actually preferred it to the annoying “metal muzak” on other vids. Not sure why you opted not to use your own voice, or better yet voice over, remember that EVERYONE hates the sound of their own voice. Finally, yes a before and after sound test would have been nice, but ultimately would depend more on our headphones than anything else. Thank you again for posting this!
I tried something quite similar, but not as complicated. I've stuck the little neodymiums under the ceramic bar, i get the impression it changed the tone, for the better...i think.
I have not tried it the way you did. I suppose that the neodymiums increased the strength of the ceramic bar magnet and somewhat increased the output of your pickups. You can try putting the neodymiums on top of the pickups and you will get and an even more "punchier" sound but you would have to lower your pickups from the strings to avoid magnet-induced harmonics. But removing the ceramic bar magnet altogether and replacing it with neodymium disc magnets will give your pickups a different tone character, which, in my opinion, is much better. Watch my other video on magnet simulations and read the description to get an idea on the different magnet-pole piece configurations. Good luck on your project!
just wondering, if you're punching out the pole pieces why not use Alnico 5 rods for a vintage style pickup? do you just really like the tone of neodymium?
5150stephen, A similar observation was raised by CNCTEMATIC last month. Although not directly stated, my concept of the modification was to keep it within the ambit of "cheap" and elevate the pickup to a state of "sounding great". To summarize: (1) thin disc neodymium magnets are a lot cheaper than alnico rods; (2) neodymium magnets generally do not demagnetize on their own, while alnico will degauss over time even when left alone; and (3) neodymium magnets come fully magnetized and you can use them immediately, while alnico magnets are usually shipped un-magnetized. In addition, using thin disc magnets will give you the option to experiment with different configurations of magnets and pole pieces to get the "tone" and "look" that you want. Watch my other video on magnet simulations and read the description to get some ideas (ua-cam.com/video/s0OZy8w8Pr8/v-deo.html). If you're still not satisfied, use alnico magnet rods instead of using thin disc neodymium magnets on ferro magnetic rods.
Alnico pickups have a different character than neodymium-modified pickups. I don't have a real bias or preference for using one over the other but I do have some guitars that have their alnico pickups replaced with neodymium-modified pickups. The alnico pickups were really old from the 60's and 70's and the magnets have become very weak. Instead of re-magnetizing them, I just replaced them (not just the pole pieces but the whole pickup) with neodymium-modified pickups that were just lying around. That was 5 or 6 years ago and I'm still using the neodymium-modified pickups and the Alnico pickups are still in storage.
makes sense, didnt realise how cheap the neo's are
I would think neo magnets would greatly reduce sustain and mess with intonation quite a bit. Do they?
Neodymium magnets are very powerful but considering that the ones used in this modification are tiny 5mm diameter x 1mm thickness disc magnets that are positioned at least 20mm away from the string, there is negligible effect on string vibration. With the setup used in the video, the Gauss level at the string is about the same as an Alnico 2 pole piece magnet. Even if you stack 2 disc magnets, its strength at the string is not enough to cause serious aberration.
Hi, I have a question. I noticed that you mixed all the poles pieces together and started placing them on the pickups. Do they need to be placed in an specific way? Will it cause issues if you flip some of the pole pieces by mistake? I plan to do this to my guitar and would like to know if I need to keep an eye on this. Thanks!
Great video btw!!!! 🎉
The pole pieces of ceramic pickups are not magnetized. In the video, the pole pieces are identical. They can be placed in any hole in any position. If you have staggered pole pieces, follow the staggered pattern when re-inserting the pole pieces. If you are going to use the same stock pole pieces, there is no need to remove them. Just remove any gum/adhesive/wax residue on the pole pieces after removing the ceramic bar magnet. The critical part is how to attach the neodymium disc magnets and ensure that their polarities are oriented properly.
Thank you for your comment. Good luck!
@@john.doesnt Thank you for the quick response! Got it! That was my only question, everything else was perfectly explained. Thank you again! Cheers!
Nice job......
Would you add the video/audio comparison between the original magnet and neodymium magnet? Thx
Danang Sugeng Nugroho, I've been planning to make test audio recordings of the different magnet and -pole piece configurations. I have to ensure that the test conditions are identical for each test sample and only the magnet and pole piece configuration will need to be changed. I would need a dedicated guitar and pickup to work on this and other ideas I am planning to do but I don't have a spare guitar to use right now. I will post my work as soon as I have finished doing it.
But instead of waiting for me to do it, why not do your own experiment and maybe share your experience. Doing the modification is not difficult and you can always easily revert back to the original magnet configuration of your pickup if you're not happy with the result. But I seriously doubt if you will use the original ceramic magnet again once you make the modification. Read the recommendations I made in the description in my other video (ua-cam.com/video/s0OZy8w8Pr8/v-deo.html) to get an idea on what to expect.
Good luck with your project!
just thought the same
how to wire a guitar
Going to give this a go. What size disks did you use?
Thanks in advance.
In this video, I used one 5mm diameter with 1mm thickness N52 neodymium disc magnet per pole piece. It's in the description. I suggest you read it and the comments. I would also suggest that you watch my other videos:
Cheap Pickups with Amazing Tone and Great Looks - Customizing Neodymium Modified Pickups (ua-cam.com/video/Zy_DmaYppns/v-deo.html)
Magnetic Field Simulation of Different Pole Piece Configurations with Neodymium Disc Magnets (ua-cam.com/video/s0OZy8w8Pr8/v-deo.html)
After doing your modification, I would appreciate a feedback, good or bad. A short description of the effect of your modification would be nice.
Thank you.
I sure will. Maybe some before and after audio.
Puertorico made videos are always the best!
I suppose that's one way of saying that you don't like my video. But your sense of nationalism is admirable, unless you're not Puerto Rican.
I love your video...not just informative but also entertaining. And because of the natural element of the countryside (I live in NYC) it was to me even more enjoyable. By the way I am Italian.
Grazie Signore.
Cool video. Im going to try on cheap set i got. I just posted guitar build comparison.
WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU ADD THE NEODYMIUM MAGNET TO THE CERAMIC MAGNET IN THE BACK WITHOUT REMOVING THE CERAMIC?
There will be no appreciable change in "tone" if the ceramic magnet is not removed. The essence of the modification is to change the shape of the magnetic field propagation, which will change the "tone" of the pickup.
+john doesnt I have to say this is a Great Tutorial!
I'm glad you appreciate my work. Thank you.
Why wouldn't you install alnico rod magnet slugs?
It was never suggested that you should not install alnico rod magnets. It is very clear that the topic, as suggested by the title, is limited to modifying a pickup's magnet from "ceramic to neodymium".
Heating magnets. Great idea.
Your name is ALMOST David Bowie. I like that.
Can you tell me where can I buy these neodymium magnets from?
I got my magnets from online sellers in China. You can get them from eBay or Amazon. I was informed that they are also available at Walmart but they are more expensive there and they use imperial measurements instead of metric.
Thank you John.
where are the 'before' and 'after' clips (recordings) of your guitar to compare the change in sound? ... otherwise how do we know its worth doing this??
Doing his modification may not be worth your while. I am not advising nor suggesting that everybody should do the pickup modification shown in this video. I am merely describing a procedure on how to make a cheap pickup sound great, that is according to my perception. Sound preferences are very subjective. It is intended for those who do not like the sound of their pickup but do not want to spend a lot of money. There is no guarantee that you will like the result of the modification. Even if there is a comparative data of the modification, there is no guarantee that the result will be the same. Do not do the modification if you are uncomfortable with modifying your pickup. Do the modification at your own risk.
I want to do this on my humbucker, is it better to put 1 piece of neodymium magnet on each pole piece (12 magnets), 1 neodymium on each pair touching both north and south (6 magnets), or 1 big bar of neodymium on all pole pieces?
I have tried replacing the ceramic bar magnet of a cheap humbucker (pole pieces in both coils are fixed) with disc magnets for each pole piece. I can't remember which one was better but I replaced the bar magnet back. If I remember correctly, I could only fit 3 disc magnets on the pole pieces before the backplate became unstable and difficult to mount (the magnets kept moving out of place but I did not want to use strong adhesive on the magnets). On hindsight, I think I should have also put some non-magnetic material to fill the space occupied by the bar magnet to keep the backplate stable.
If you are going to replace the ceramic bar magnet with neodymium bar magnet, make sure that the polarities of the magnet are on the long edges and get the exact width that will snuggly fit inside the cavity. Handle the neodymium bar magnet carefully because it is very brittle. It will break if you drop it or if it slams hard to a magnetic material it is attracted to. The neodymium bar magnet I had was 3mm thick and the ceramic bar magnet I was supposed to replace was 5mm thick. The neodymium bar magnet broke to pieces before I could use it.
I would expect that the best simple way to make a humbucker would be to connect up north-south pairs on the underside with bars of pieces of soft steel the same size as the pole pieces so as to effectively create six horseshoe magnets (better yet might be to have U-shaped pole pieces, but those would have to be custom manufactured). I've not tried modifying my humbucker with magnets in that fashion, but having watched your video my plan is to use six separate steel bridges to carry the flux.
Forget about using custom made magnets unless you have lots of money to squander. When designing or experimenting, you will be better off if you use magnet sizes that are readily available in relatively small quantities.
If you are going to "pair up" individual pole pieces of the two coils in a humbucker, either by using 6 pieces of small bars of neodymium magnets or 6 pieces of small bars of mild steel on alnico or neodymium-magnetized pole piece, you have to consider that the metal backplate, which also functions as a mounting bracket, is actually a "magnet shield" that forces the magnetic field to be narrow which makes the pickup more sensitive to string movement, which generally boosts the output. It also functions as a shield from stray fields from interfering with the field in the coils. Changing the material of the backplate has an effect on the output of the pickup.
As I already mentioned, I have tried using disc magnets in a humbucker pickup with the baseplate acting as the "bridge" for the magnetic field to travel into. The sound did not appeal to me and I replaced the original ceramic magnet back but sound preferences are very subjective.
I bought some neodymium discs (5x3mm) that have the same diameter as my pole pieces, it just arrived today,they are too strong, the back plate is a little rised, maybe I will reduce the pole pieces or make a protector to cover the space. If it doesnt work I will buy a normal humbucker from a national brand, which make some clones from Duncan's. Btw this brand makes a neodymium model, but its more expensive than their alnico models, it uses 2 neo bars for each coil placed on the north and south tips, not on the middle of pick-up, but it use blades instead individual pole pieces and plastic cover to reduce the magnetic field
man, those magnets are so strong that they ignore the ceramic magnet north, I have to make sure which side is the correct, because they mix themselves easily (they connect independently of which pole, they atract to the metal pole even if its on the wrong polarity) I mean, I have to separate 6/6 and mark them.
Now THAT........
Is cooler than snowman poop.
Tjanx !
Great video, but I get tired of other peoples rebuttals trying to show off their knowledge of electronics. I know you have good working intelligence of electronics when you mentioned the reference to an RLC circuit. Good thinking. Now as far as maybe weakening the magnets slightly, to me it doesn't matter, I don't particularly like an over-wound or hot pickup, what matters to me is the tone, and that is the scope of this video. If I loose some magnetism but improve my tone for me, thats fine and I see an overall improvement in the whole pup circuit. Thanks.