I'm not British. Heck I've never even been to Britain. Yet every time I see your video in my recommended I immediately gravitate towards it. Amazing content, Jago.
@@mildlydispleased3221 Not surprised: 1 Ashburton Place in Boston is the state Attorney General's office. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.
I remember going to Addiscombe station a lot as a child on Saturdays waiting to see a train go anywhere but never did... As an adult, went to Addiscombe quite a lot as an alternative journey home to Croydon. In particular, one evening in the 90's I got on a train from Charing Cross to Addiscombe - a train that normally went to Hayes. Hayes passengers were rather miffed when they had to change at Elmers End. "Haha, now you know how it feels" I thought...
Also, I used to go to school in South Norwood. Our games lessons were on the fields adjacent to the tracks south of Elmers End but before Woodside. Used to watch 2EPB's sail past regularly with not a soul on them..
I grew up round the corner from this station and we never used it as a family; when we wanted to get into London we took the fast train from East Croydon which was a fairly short walk or a very short bus ride away. This is true for the whole of the eastern end of Croydon which is why Addiscombe station would never have done well as a branch line; it could never compete with that even if it offered a direct service -- maybe if it had something more comfortable than the compartmented slam-door Kent suburban stock. If it had been allowed to reach Croydon, it could have been useful as a connection to Lewisham and the rest of south-east London and maybe the Docklands, but that possibility was never explored. Bingham Road station was actually in the centre of Addiscombe; Addiscombe station was about half a mile further west, so it made more sense for the tram stop to be called Addiscombe once it was the only station in Addiscombe. The reason it stopped being called Addiscombe Road station is because it was on Lower Addiscombe Road; the actual Addiscombe Road (the A232) serves the posh bit up the hill towards Lloyd Park.
Thanks for an interesting video. British Railways (as it was) management illogical logic: 1. Passenger numbers are going down and revenue is reducing. 2. Reduce the number of trains and increase fares. 3. Go back to 1.
Mr H, I am hugely impressed by this piece (as I so often am with your magnificent contributions). But this especially so as you mention New Beckenham Station. This gas-lit station was my place of work for a couple of years, and there may well be a plaque marking the fact. No? Ah me, there's no justice in this world. But it is never-the-less where I learnt to pull signal levers, an occupation I continue on the Chinnor and Princes Risborough Railway to this very day. Thanks. Simon T
Plenty of gaslighting still going on in New Beckenham.... BTW, I love the Chinnor & Princes Risborough, I went on it about 10 years ago on a lovely sunny Sunday and had a super time, so thank you Mr. Signalman :-)
That was a rare shot of southern overhead cables that existed before 3rd rail became the de facto standard on the southern railways, I think Clapham Junction still bears some ancient scars of the old cable system on bridge abutments but very little else seems to be out there. I don't mind Addiscombe stuff, a Croydon born lad who grew up in Bromley whose father was the D grade relief signalman for the whole line based at Elmers End signalbox, slowly migrating full circle to London Bridge a signal box he should have started as a box boy but was placed at North Kent East Jnc and I remember well the old Tooley St signalbox as we visited in there with me father in 71 when that last steam train went up and down at London Bridge, same year London Transport did their Pannier tank farewell, saw both :D
Back in the late 1960's and early 1970's, my biker friends and I, would travel from Thornton Heath and Croydon, to The Nightingale Cafe at Biggin Hill. The route from Croydon took us via Addiscombe and New Addington, where we left the main road and travelled through the country lanes, to Biggin Hill. The Nightingale is long gone, but there is now a Biggin Hill Memorial Museum, where the Cafe was situated. My biker friends and I spent many a happy evening there, usually after a day out down to the South Coast. The A233 road, which runs past the end of Biggin Hill Runway, was a popular spot for a Ton-Up. Ah! Happy Daze! I wonder where they all are today? Most of us were members of the 59 Club. Big John; Steve; Rick; 'The Moon'; Stan and not forgetting the beautiful 'Rusty'.
Speaking of abandoned stations, a long held curiosity of mine is Bandon Halt, located between Wallington and Waddon stations on the West Croydon branch of the Sutton and Mole Valley lines. Opened in June 1906, it closed 8 years later, just prior to the outbreak of WW1 in June 1914. There's no evidence of where the Halt was, except for the fact that it was located just west of the bridge carrying Plough Lane. Based on what pictures I've seen, it appears as though part of the reason for its closure was being (at the time) in the countryside. It's hard to believe now, given the area is full of suburban housing,
There are steps on the west and north side of Plough Lane Bridge, leading to Plough Lane Close. i think that was at least one entrance to the station. I know because I went to the scout hall there as a child in the 60s. Also there is a park called Queen's Garden which was the approach to Croydon Central. The retaining walls are part of the old station.
@@malcolmbrooks9527 Yes, found Bandon Halt marked on the 1911 OS map and the steps next to the bridge on Plough Lane, that would have led to the halt, are still there.
Addiscombe station wasn't that far from East Croydon station which always had a range of faster and more frequent services in different directions so it was unlikely to compete. As you say, it was surprising it lasted as long as it did.
Given the confusion and frequent name change, I am surprised the branch lasted as long as it did. Clearly those in charge appeared not to be the most decisive.
@@eattherich9215 In 1925 they should have just had the running in boards having Croydon, on the bit nearest Croydon, and Addiscombe on the end going toward London, thus giving both names
@@mkendallpk4321 They had to replace the signs on the tram stop (which sort of replaced the railway station at Addiscombe), as in 2000, some comedian vandals scatched out the outer letters of the word "Addiscombe" on virtually all the signs, just leaving "disco"!! 😆
I found this episode absolutely fascinating as I was born and raised in the area. I did struggle to recognize some of the places as I moved away in the early 80's. I particularly liked the images of the development that replaced Addiscombe station as I could figure out where that sat. Time to go onto Google Earth and discover more about the railway park. Thanks for making this video!
Addiscombe Tram Stop is where the Bingham Road Station was, which was a high level platform and the bridge went over Lower Addiscombe Road. I moved to Croydon in 2003 and loved looking into the history of disused rail lines and repurposed canals. Maybe Jago will do West Croydon next??? It was originally a branch of the Deptford Canal that terminated there.
@@digitalupgraded yes, I remember when there were railway bridges over both Bingham Road and Addiscombe Road! I think I may even have got on a train at Bingham Road once; East Croydon was a part of my regular commute for a number of years.
For many years Addiscombe shed was claimed to be haunted. I'm surprised you didn't mention that it remained a small island of semaphore signals in a world of colour lights until the (listed) box burned down late one night
I was fortunate to ride on the very last train to Addiscombe. I still have the souvenir ticket! It is a real shame that they closed the line and a greater shame that they demolished the building. I have a number of friends who campaigned to save the station, their plans was to turn it into a heritage railway. They failed, but went on to form the SPA Valley Railway which is fortunately highly successful.
I remember the addiscombe to Elmer’s end shuttle service! Use to sometimes when I was in my teens hop the train to Woodside for a free journey🤣🤣🤣 No barriers back then! Adiscombe was also apparently haunted too!
With regards to popularity, there is also the question of capacity. The Hayes line currently has four trains per hour to London Charing Cross. They used to be split half and half between Charing Cross and Cannon Street, but that apparently wasn't a great use of the already over-stretched capacity into London Bridge so we lost the Cannon Street option. Even two trains per hour would probably have stretched that capacity a bit too much, so the most likely answer would be to split the trains between Addiscombe and Hayes. At Elmers End they had half a million entry/exits last year, and the next stop down - Eden Park - had a third of a million. West Wickham does more brisk trade at a little under half a million. And Hayes had a little over half a million. Pre-pandemic those figures were roughly doubled. The Hayes line has no competition at any of those stations from Elmers End onwards, whereas Addiscombe has more competition the closer it gets to Croydon. And yet I suspect it would struggle to get similar numbers to the Hayes line. It's never nice to see transport options removed, but I can't make a case for having kept this line...
You're qute correct about capacity at BoroughMarket and Metropolitan Junctions being a crucial factor. Before the rbuild, you couldn't get from any of the Croydon stations to Charing Cross or Canon Street in the rush hour without changing at London Bridge, since the New Cross Gate lines are at the western side of the approach, and it required traversing right over to the east, taking up numerous slots. That's why the Thameslink services were sent via Tulse Hill during the rush hour. Addiscombe was for a while the exception, until capacity was reached with the Hayes traffic, and through working ceased.
Very enjoyable to see my old stomping ground from the early '90s. I lived at 287 Lower Addiscombe Road above the Harlequin Hair Salon, which was a '60s timewarp run by a very nice Greek chap called George. I remember the old station, which I never used, and the Blackhorse Inn at the top of Blackhorse Road which I did.
The South East and Chatham Railway Society wanted to save the station, but it wasn't in a great state at closure - a ceiling collapsed about a month before closure.
"Another of those lines built out of territorial rivalry." Were the Victorian railway companies run by cats? I like the old retaining wall. I'm glad they kept it.
This is a really special video for me. I grew up in Croydon, and have family in Addiscombe. We have special memories at the railway park. On Google maps, I was exploring new green spaces to get some fresh air in lockdown. The railway park is the thinnest strip of land I've ever seen on Google maps (it's quite funny to see), but it's a marvellous plot of land. Yes, it may look mundane to some, but I guess the memories made there were special. Thanks for putting Addiscombe on the map! Thank you also for your fascinating story telling!
In the 50s/60s/70s my grandmother lived within walking distance of Addiscombe station yet I can only remember using it once. For a faster service up to London I would catch the No.12 bus to East Croydon station. Bingham Road (Halt) was much closer to the Black Horse shopping area. There was nothing around the station but a handful of shops and large houses. A white elephant indeed.
@@KatharineA0203 Route 12 was the traditional route between Addiscombe and Croydon, having provided the service continuously since before 1934. By comparison the 12A, introduced in January 1972, was insignificant; its sole purpose being to cut operating costs by utilising one-man-operated buses in place of the much-loved Routemaster buses.
I wonder whether it ever had much of a future - it was too close to East Croydon, which was always the most direct route from Croydon into London, on one side, and to Bingham Road on the other (until that closed of course), which duplicated the same route into London that Addiscombe had; moreover, both those other stations also gave access to points south, which Addiscombe didn't. If its line had got extened further it might have been another story, but as things were it was just the end of a one-stop branch, and they tend not to do well. So unless converted into something else (like an Underground terminus) I don't think it had any real future. Even as an Underground station it might have ended up surviving just as East Croydon's poor relation (compare Watford Met vis-a-vis Watford Junction).
Thank you Jago for your well researched video. As one who often walks along the linear park, and frequently hops on trans to Elmers End and Beckenham from Addiscombe tram stop I appreciate so clearly how much of a breakthrough was made by the introduction of very frequent trams. So many more people use the line than ever was the case before trams came. Another observation from my viewpoint in Croydon is how much Thameslink has improved north-south travel locally with fast connection between East Croydon and Coulsdon South.
But also because the trams go somewhere people want to go. The line from Woodside to Sanderstead really didn't, and that's why it didn't survive (incidentally, it didn't even reach South Croydon or the LB&SCR main line; it merged with what became the branch line to East Grinstead).
@@ianthomson9363 Could be - Ian Thomson - Uncle Fredrikson's Amazing Balancing Wagons might just fit on it!!! (See Sam's trains video :- ua-cam.com/video/tUZmrHp7050/v-deo.html 😉🚂🚂🚂
I seem to spend a lot of time with Jago’s videos side-by-side with a London map, doing the rail tracing. I’m learning so much about the outer zones. I love it. Bravo, sir.
I used to work just round the corner from the station. Moved away from Croydon in the late 80's. Didn't go back to the area till about about 10 years ago and driving down Lower Addiscombe Road I thought, where's the station gone.
I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned, but the authorities unwisely used stick-on letters for tram stop names on the Tramlink. As a result, "Addiscombe" was soon changed to "Disco" by the local teens.
Hi Jago from sunny Spain. This is a bit off the beaten track for me but, nevertheless interesting, as your contributions to keeping my dementia at bay, usually are.
I was a rare regular user. It was handy if you wanted to reach and Lewisham and Catford from the south. (a lot of people worked at the Lewisham Town Hall at Catford). Trains from Catford sometimes ran to Sanderstead. The branch was also useful as it gave a decent service to Catford from London Bridge at the end of the rush hour, until then decided, annoyingly, to turn the trains to Addiscombe into empty stock instead of London Bridge and first stop Ladywell. Various changes at the end of the 1980s, including Thameslink, gradually made what had been a pleasant easy commute into a pain.
Those lines that were BR (and predeccessors) still have privilege rights for free travel for train company employees , being classed as part of the national rail system for such purposes.
I caught a train from Lewisham to Stanmore for a number of years in the 70's, It's a short walk from Addison Rd to Stanmore station. Croydon is a stop on the same line. Sydney has what London hasn't.
Always love your Croydon videos! Big fan of Addiscombe and the Railway Park, it’s a great piece of Croydon-as-was. And a great Croydon what-if, of course! Also: I’m sure you know this, but you can still see what survives of Central Croydon station in the Queens Gardens just across from Croydon Town Hall. It’s interesting to see Victorian railway… stuff… on the fringes of a recently-modernised park.
That terminal station (apart from being close to the Metcalfe cardboard range), looks suitable for kit bashing the airfix station building into the nice terminal.
I rode this line (from Addiscombe to London) in the last few years of its existence, at a time when the *other* line through Woodside (through Combe Lane) was disused, and there were houses built across it at Teevan Close. Fast forward a bit and it is the Addiscombe line that is closed and the Combe Lane line that has been reopened as part of Croydon Tramlink (well, the northern part of it as far as Coombe Road, where Tramlink then turns east to follow the south side of the park). And the houses in Teevan Close have been demolished. The novellist R F Delderfield used to live in Addiscombe when he was younger, and it is interesting to see that he took the names used in his books from the road names in the area: Havelock and Outram (school houses in To Serve Them All My Days) are the ones I can remember. His "Avenue" novels were set somewhere in the area.
Interesting that they chose to demolish the almost brand new Teevan Close houses rather than try to find a through tram route from Addiscombe to East Croydon instead.
@@iankemp1131 I thought that. When I rode the line, it was before I knew about the plans for the Croydon Tramlink. I remember looking at the map of the disused trackbed (the one which is now Tramlink) as I passed on the train and thought "those new houses put paid to any plans to open that line", as I tend to idly speculate when I see a disused line. Then I heard that the line was reopening and that the new houses (Teevan Close) were going to be demolished. I was surprised. I suppose the expected profits from running services on the line made it worthwhile to pay a fairly small amount (in the grand scheme of things) to buy a few houses to demolish them.
@@Mortimer50145 Sounds logical, except that I would substitute "benefits" for "profits". Mass transit systems are rarely if ever profitable, but the cities they serve would often grind to a halt without them, or at any rate a lot of journeys would be much slower and more awkward. The Overground and Tramlink are both good examples of this, well worth the investment.
You didn't mention the sidings for stock that was at Addiscombe. Think they ran through trains from Addiscombe in the morning from the sidings and late night ones back. Remember looking round the old signal box and noticed most of the equipment had names on the back as to who was going to have them when the boxed closed. Great film thanks for sharing.
Great video. I remember dropping my Mini off for mechanical work near the station. I used the branch line and remember thinking how fun down it was in 1994. Similar but in worse condition and far few passengers than Bromley North.
As ever a fascinating tale of one of my local lines . Oh my if only the Metropolitan Railway had run trains to Addiscombe! I’m looking at the TfL Go tube map. Let me see, yes I’ve got it , Aldgate , a through station on the Metropolitan. Addiscombe to Uxbridge. I like it.
Jago: "Addiscombe Addiscombe Addiscombe" *Poof* Demon of railroads past appears. "What do you have to say for yourself??" Jago: "....Charles Yerkes" *Demon disappears in a blast of hot air*
I do think that the Tramlink could of extend to Biggin Hill. I have been on the Tramlink when it first went into service and I quite enjoyed riding on it. Nice to see some of the old former railway lines in South London now used as a public footpath.
There was a campaign to save the station building, as it was the last surviving example of an urban rail terminus in Greater London. It was granted Grade II listed status, the day the bulldozers demolished it, before permission was granted. Nobody was prosecuted for it. The rail museum was also a proposal for a heritage line, for diesel trains. It would have provided a service to connect the West side of Addiscombe to the tram at Blackhorse Lane. Now it’s either a 15 minute walk to East Croydon station, or to what used to be Bingham Road station, now Addiscombe tram stop, to use the tram. The area, my area where I live, would have really benefited from the proposed heritage line. Instead, the housing estate that replaced it has done nothing for the area. The local shops closed down, along with the pub, many of those shops have been badly converted into residential properties. A heritage railway would have brought people to the area and likely kept those shops from closing for good. I used to use the service from Addiscombe, to travel up to Charing Cross, after direct services from East Croydon were cut, and to Lewisham. It was more convenient to use than East Croydon station and far less crowded, as well as closer.
I used to live in Woodside and remember when the railway bridge over Addiscombe High Street was demolished. I've still got a photo of the bridge somewhere!
Was on that last train on the LILO (Last in Last out) tour in 1997 with the 4 VEP EMU's 3543+3544. Same train on that tour as the last from Wimbledon to West Croydon and was a very memorable day still as if yesterday. Videos are on UA-cam of the tour that include arriving at Addiscombe Railway Station that seeing this shows even more to how much has changed since then. Knew and still know some who were working so hard to hopefully make the Station and line into a running museum. Unfortunately there were those against the idea.
I’m amazed at the enthusiasm by private companies to build railways in the 19th century. I wish we had that in Australia. The few examples we had rapidly folded and were taken over by the government. We lack the population to sustain anything more than bus services. During the 1980s it was accepted that the motor car was the only way forward and many lines closed.
670m to the south-west of here, along the new tramway lines, is the infamous Sandiland curve where a driver fell asleep with his foot on the loud pedal causing a massive toppling over and deadly derailment in 2016. Such is the snail's pace of investigations, boards of enquiry and the legal system, the tram driver, facing charges under the Health & Safety at Work Act, has yet to have his pre-trial assessment for Crown Court.
while the driver was culpable the whole junction layout was a disaster waiting to happen, while we expect bus drivers to stay alert - there is normally plenty going on to keep your attention alertness happening, the drone of the track past the wall and through the tunnel is a little too sleep inducing
I used to walk and ride the tram around here on my lunch breaks when I worked in the "50p building" in Croydon. It would be interesting to see you do a video about the line to Sanderstead and how it now serves Sandilands and Lloyd Park tram stops. You'll probably remember the terrible accident that happened there a few years ago.
Not surprised it shut down darling - it seems very bumpy. Mind you, disused railways give me the willies, about the only thing that does. I find them very haunting x
@@borderlands6606 I used to live near what was, in the inter-war years, a shunting yard on the Swansea-Brecon railway. It was eerie, especially given the single track which still ran the class 37 between the Penwyllt colliery and the Onllwyn washeries, from which a distinctive push-me-pull-you shunter similar to a class 7 could be seen in the distance. I used to wander the old line wondering about the trains which used to ply it, the passengers and the experience of local residents. And i wasn't even shaving... x
How quickly former railway lines disappear. Apart from a few straight bits there's very little to show there was ever a railway. This is equally true of comparative backwaters like Addiscombe as main lines like the Great Central and routes like the Woodhead. Sic transit gloria mundi, as Jacob Rees-Mogg must have said.
There still is (at least until quite recently) a pedestrian bridge over the old Bingham Road to Selsdon branch between Coombe Lane (where the trams leave the old line and head past Lloyd Park to New Addington and Selsdon. Not sure of Jago's done it, but Geoff Marshall definitely has.
That was a bit different, Jago, and I think you should do more disused lines videos. I'm frankly amazed Addiscombe hung on that long. One would have thought it would have been a prime target for Beeching, or even would have closed much earlier.
Looking at the photos and the new property, I wonder if Addiscombe in the 60s/70s was simply far enough out of London for commuters to be happy in their cars and therefore not enough pressure to retain a public service. I wonder how many now drive from home to an expensive car park at a station/tube station...
At least the retaining wall is still in situ so there's at least some reference point that's obvious to casual investigators like myself.. Thanks Jago.
Well, I never knew they planned to reach Redhill from addiscombe - I suspect that would have taken some engineering through the downs! Did anyone have Addiscombe as part of their drinking game? If so, are you still standing? 😜
In fact they partly managed that with the line through to South Croydon/Selsdon which joined up with the SER line to Oxted and was a stones throw from the line to Redhill which was shared with the LBSCR. But by then Redhill was of no real interest to the SER. It seemed surprising that the Southern electrified the Selsdon line; it was a potential diversionary route round East Croydon but only if the track further on was electrified, which it wasn't until after the Elmers End-Selsdon line closed! I travelled on that line near the closure date; it was peak hours only and again carried a handful of passengers. I think BR were too embarrassed to close electrified routes.
Used to live just around the corner from Addiscombe station when trains were still operating. Never used them, sorry. Usually wanted to go to Clapham Junction or Victoria. So East Croydon much more convenient even with the longer walk. Might just have worked if I had worked in The City. But East Croydon has good service for London Bridge too.
These lines are probably carrying more passengers on them now as trams than they ever did as railways! My 1970s memories of travelling on the Wimbledon-West Croydon line were of two coach trains with an hourly service that it was very little used (off peak, at least). I'm fairly sure I was the only passenger between Wimbledon and Waddon Marsh on more than one occasion. When I did the same trip on the tram a couple of years back it was very busy, crowded even, and made me wonder how all the new passenger traffic had come to be. Maybe the demand was always there, but customers were put off by a tatty and run-down demeanor, with semi-derelict stations, long service intervals and (in the 70s at least) rather old and grubby EMUs.
Nice to see you getting some exercise, so you can be healthy, and keep recording more videos for us. Also, the map at 0m20s has lead me to discover that in 2004, John Mortimer wrote a heretofore unsuspected-by-me novel called "Rumpole and the Penge Bungalow Murders", which I really ought to inhale.
I was one of those rare passengers on the line in the 90s. The 2 EPBs were replaced with class 466 units, and there were always a few units stabled in the sidings.
Having grown up in the Croydon area, let me say that the only reason to catch a train to London is if your daily commute takes you there. Otherwise, you rarely even consider using a train. To judge whether Addisombe Station was doomed from the outset, merely requires a survey of its catchment area, and consideration of whether the rail service was ever adequate for the purposes of getting into Central London. In the first half of the 20th Century, it probably did have a suitable catchment area, but, as you say, the service itself was slow, often required a change of train (anathema to the commuter), and offered no advantage over the service from East Croydon in terms of the destination station. Indeed, Victoria (available from East Croydon but not Addiscombe) was far more attractive to those working around Westminster and the West End, so the trains from Addiscombe would not even have been considered for such a journey. Presumably, the original idea was to extend the line southwards to join the South Eastern lines to Redhill somewhere near Purley or Coulsdon, and, if this had happened, and the company speeded up services, this may have given the route a lifeline, since it would have cut out the Croydon bottleneck. Had the Metropolitan scheme succeeded, and the East London line been used to get direct access to Metropolitan and/or District underground stations in the City, via St Mary's curve, it would have attracted some traffic from East Croydon, although there were competing services to Liverpool Street from West Croydon using a similar route. The Fleet Line to Addiscombe would certainly have saved the station, although there would have been great pressure to extend the line southwards, probably to an interchange at Coulsdon North. This would have allowed the Southern Electric stabling there to have been used, rather than be demolished to form a rather stupid and ugly by-pass road.
The line was always only ever going to survive as long as it was an element of the competition for traffic from greater Croydon - i.e. before 1923 as part of the SECR. After Grouping it was never going to be viable and, as stated elsewhere, the surprise is that it lasted as long as it did. Ultimately, remember, it ended up not as a primary route but as the branch off the Woodside-Sanderstead line, which should itself have had greater traffic potential given its connection to the secondary routs to Brighton but instead fell victim to the rundown and axing of those services. As you note, the key to Addiscombe's longevity had to be the stabling and presumably minor servicing facilities available in the shed. Once alternatives to that had been developed (remember this was also one of the nails in the coffin of Crystal Palace High Level) then it truly lost its raison d'etre.
Addiscombe was really not a lot of use as a dead-end station and the line is far more useful now that it runs through to East Croydon and the town centre which is where most people want to go. Interesting that they chose to run from Bingham Road into Croydon rather than using the stretch up to Addiscombe, but the justification seems to be that it then provided the shortest route for the new line from New Addington.
"These days Addiscombe is served by a _tram,_ but it used to be served by a _railway station."_ Now, that is quite the form of transport: a railway station 😄😄
The reuse of most of this branch for Tramlink was a very sensible solution. It's not a long walk to East Croydon for fast trains into London anyway. Similarly, while it would be nice to have kept the old building, it was hardly an architectural masterpiece, and land for housing is desperately needed in London, so I can't argue with that either.
I visited a mate who was one of the Signalman there in 1974 and it was a decent hike to the end of platform 1! The question still remains - was it legally closed?
On the whole, while I'm normally fond of rail, it's hard to argue against adding to the housing supply. Too bad the architecture of said housing wasn't a bit nicer looking, though.
It certainly looks a bit of a white elephant although there probably are other white elephants which are actually enjoying a busy old time of it today. However, looking at google maps extending it would probably have arrived at South Croyden and had some interesting discussions with LBSCR. Still, such an extension might have made it more attractive as an Underground line takeover. What might have been, eh? Although, might that have had an effect on the viability of the trams? Consequences!
Once you stop through trains to London, you can expect a decline in passenger numbers. It's then only a matter of time before it's not worth keeping the line open.
Ironic that the Elmers end-addiscombe line was closed due to being very underused, yet now Elmers end is almost impossible to use via trams as there’s almost always delays due to a lack of rolling stock
I'm not British. Heck I've never even been to Britain. Yet every time I see your video in my recommended I immediately gravitate towards it. Amazing content, Jago.
Thank you!
@@JagoHazzard Are you watching the Chicago series of buildings and railways that is popping up in recomendations to me
Pop over and visit us sometime.
Great video. Was hoping this was not going to be an Addiscombe drinking game or we be drunk before the end of the video.
Jago: "These days, Addiscombe is served by a tram."
Me, whose never heard of Addiscombe:
*Interesting, tell me more?*
Great vid Jago 👍
Sister City: Subtractiscombe.
@@mildlydispleased3221 Not surprised: 1 Ashburton Place in Boston is the state Attorney General's office. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.
@@mildlydispleased3221 Definitely don't want to be in stupid places with stupid people doing stupid things...
I remember going to Addiscombe station a lot as a child on Saturdays waiting to see a train go anywhere but never did... As an adult, went to Addiscombe quite a lot as an alternative journey home to Croydon. In particular, one evening in the 90's I got on a train from Charing Cross to Addiscombe - a train that normally went to Hayes. Hayes passengers were rather miffed when they had to change at Elmers End. "Haha, now you know how it feels" I thought...
Also, I used to go to school in South Norwood. Our games lessons were on the fields adjacent to the tracks south of Elmers End but before Woodside. Used to watch 2EPB's sail past regularly with not a soul on them..
I grew up round the corner from this station and we never used it as a family; when we wanted to get into London we took the fast train from East Croydon which was a fairly short walk or a very short bus ride away. This is true for the whole of the eastern end of Croydon which is why Addiscombe station would never have done well as a branch line; it could never compete with that even if it offered a direct service -- maybe if it had something more comfortable than the compartmented slam-door Kent suburban stock. If it had been allowed to reach Croydon, it could have been useful as a connection to Lewisham and the rest of south-east London and maybe the Docklands, but that possibility was never explored.
Bingham Road station was actually in the centre of Addiscombe; Addiscombe station was about half a mile further west, so it made more sense for the tram stop to be called Addiscombe once it was the only station in Addiscombe. The reason it stopped being called Addiscombe Road station is because it was on Lower Addiscombe Road; the actual Addiscombe Road (the A232) serves the posh bit up the hill towards Lloyd Park.
Thanks for an interesting video. British Railways (as it was) management illogical logic:
1. Passenger numbers are going down and revenue is reducing.
2. Reduce the number of trains and increase fares.
3. Go back to 1.
Lower costs inevitably mean lower sales - stands to reason, dunnit ? Try explaining that to a manager though.
I really liked the Walking Tour with the voiceover. It’s like having a fun audio guide/podcast on a walk.
Mr H, I am hugely impressed by this piece (as I so often am with your magnificent contributions). But this especially so as you mention New Beckenham Station. This gas-lit station was my place of work for a couple of years, and there may well be a plaque marking the fact. No? Ah me, there's no justice in this world. But it is never-the-less where I learnt to pull signal levers, an occupation I continue on the Chinnor and Princes Risborough Railway to this very day. Thanks. Simon T
Plenty of gaslighting still going on in New Beckenham....
BTW, I love the Chinnor & Princes Risborough, I went on it about 10 years ago on a lovely sunny Sunday and had a super time, so thank you Mr. Signalman :-)
That was a rare shot of southern overhead cables that existed before 3rd rail became the de facto standard on the southern railways, I think Clapham Junction still bears some ancient scars of the old cable system on bridge abutments but very little else seems to be out there. I don't mind Addiscombe stuff, a Croydon born lad who grew up in Bromley whose father was the D grade relief signalman for the whole line based at Elmers End signalbox, slowly migrating full circle to London Bridge a signal box he should have started as a box boy but was placed at North Kent East Jnc and I remember well the old Tooley St signalbox as we visited in there with me father in 71 when that last steam train went up and down at London Bridge, same year London Transport did their Pannier tank farewell, saw both :D
Back in the late 1960's and early 1970's, my biker friends and I, would travel from Thornton Heath and Croydon, to The Nightingale Cafe at Biggin Hill. The route from Croydon took us via Addiscombe and New Addington, where we left the main road and travelled through the country lanes, to Biggin Hill. The Nightingale is long gone, but there is now a Biggin Hill Memorial Museum, where the Cafe was situated. My biker friends and I spent many a happy evening there, usually after a day out down to the South Coast. The A233 road, which runs past the end of Biggin Hill Runway, was a popular spot for a Ton-Up. Ah! Happy Daze! I wonder where they all are today? Most of us were members of the 59 Club. Big John; Steve; Rick; 'The Moon'; Stan and not forgetting the beautiful 'Rusty'.
There is no New Addiscombe; you mean New Addington, that is close to Biggin Hill.
@@IndigoJo TA very ever so. Thanks for the correction. I was clearly having a Senior Moment.
Speaking of abandoned stations, a long held curiosity of mine is Bandon Halt, located between Wallington and Waddon stations on the West Croydon branch of the Sutton and Mole Valley lines. Opened in June 1906, it closed 8 years later, just prior to the outbreak of WW1 in June 1914. There's no evidence of where the Halt was, except for the fact that it was located just west of the bridge carrying Plough Lane. Based on what pictures I've seen, it appears as though part of the reason for its closure was being (at the time) in the countryside. It's hard to believe now, given the area is full of suburban housing,
So Bandon was a-Bandoned?
@@JagoHazzard it was indeed, lol
There are steps on the west and north side of Plough Lane Bridge, leading to Plough Lane Close. i think that was at least one entrance to the station. I know because I went to the scout hall there as a child in the 60s. Also there is a park called Queen's Garden which was the approach to Croydon Central. The retaining walls are part of the old station.
@@malcolmbrooks9527 Yes, found Bandon Halt marked on the 1911 OS map and the steps next to the bridge on Plough Lane, that would have led to the halt, are still there.
There was also a spur between waddon and the Bandon halt.
It went south across Stafford rd towards the old croydon airport, parallel to purely way.
Addiscombe station wasn't that far from East Croydon station which always had a range of faster and more frequent services in different directions so it was unlikely to compete. As you say, it was surprising it lasted as long as it did.
Given the confusion and frequent name change, I am surprised the branch lasted as long as it did. Clearly those in charge appeared not to be the most decisive.
Not the most imaginative either:
1864, Addiscombe Road, Croydon;
1881, Croydon, Addiscombe Road;
1925, Croydon, Addiscombe;
1926, Addiscombe, Croydon; and finally
1955, Addiscombe
Makes me wonder if their were sign makers on the board over the years who profited from the name changes?
@@eattherich9215 In 1925 they should have just had the running in boards having Croydon, on the bit nearest Croydon, and Addiscombe on the end going toward London, thus giving both names
@@mkendallpk4321 They had to replace the signs on the tram stop (which sort of replaced the railway station at Addiscombe), as in 2000, some comedian vandals scatched out the outer letters of the word "Addiscombe" on virtually all the signs, just leaving "disco"!! 😆
@@ianmcclavin They must be old comedians because disco died in the 1970s. 😁
I found this episode absolutely fascinating as I was born and raised in the area. I did struggle to recognize some of the places as I moved away in the early 80's. I particularly liked the images of the development that replaced Addiscombe station as I could figure out where that sat. Time to go onto Google Earth and discover more about the railway park. Thanks for making this video!
Addiscombe Tram Stop is where the Bingham Road Station was, which was a high level platform and the bridge went over Lower Addiscombe Road. I moved to Croydon in 2003 and loved looking into the history of disused rail lines and repurposed canals. Maybe Jago will do West Croydon next??? It was originally a branch of the Deptford Canal that terminated there.
@@digitalupgraded yes, I remember when there were railway bridges over both Bingham Road and Addiscombe Road! I think I may even have got on a train at Bingham Road once; East Croydon was a part of my regular commute for a number of years.
Addiscombe and Croydon are the Ross and Rachel of Station Nomenclature. It’s a real ‘Will They-Won’t They’ 😂
Like the Coffe TV advert ? He wanted her roast beans !
For many years Addiscombe shed was claimed to be haunted.
I'm surprised you didn't mention that it remained a small island of semaphore signals in a world of colour lights until the (listed) box burned down late one night
I was fortunate to ride on the very last train to Addiscombe. I still have the souvenir ticket! It is a real shame that they closed the line and a greater shame that they demolished the building. I have a number of friends who campaigned to save the station, their plans was to turn it into a heritage railway. They failed, but went on to form the SPA Valley Railway which is fortunately highly successful.
And the Spa Valley line is a much more interesting location and route.
I remember the addiscombe to Elmer’s end shuttle service! Use to sometimes when I was in my teens hop the train to Woodside for a free journey🤣🤣🤣 No barriers back then! Adiscombe was also apparently haunted too!
With regards to popularity, there is also the question of capacity. The Hayes line currently has four trains per hour to London Charing Cross. They used to be split half and half between Charing Cross and Cannon Street, but that apparently wasn't a great use of the already over-stretched capacity into London Bridge so we lost the Cannon Street option.
Even two trains per hour would probably have stretched that capacity a bit too much, so the most likely answer would be to split the trains between Addiscombe and Hayes.
At Elmers End they had half a million entry/exits last year, and the next stop down - Eden Park - had a third of a million. West Wickham does more brisk trade at a little under half a million. And Hayes had a little over half a million. Pre-pandemic those figures were roughly doubled.
The Hayes line has no competition at any of those stations from Elmers End onwards, whereas Addiscombe has more competition the closer it gets to Croydon. And yet I suspect it would struggle to get similar numbers to the Hayes line.
It's never nice to see transport options removed, but I can't make a case for having kept this line...
Eden Park is the closest national station for Beckenham model railway club events at the church hall
You're qute correct about capacity at BoroughMarket and Metropolitan Junctions being a crucial factor. Before the rbuild, you couldn't get from any of the Croydon stations to Charing Cross or Canon Street in the rush hour without changing at London Bridge, since the New Cross Gate lines are at the western side of the approach, and it required traversing right over to the east, taking up numerous slots. That's why the Thameslink services were sent via Tulse Hill during the rush hour. Addiscombe was for a while the exception, until capacity was reached with the Hayes traffic, and through working ceased.
Very enjoyable to see my old stomping ground from the early '90s. I lived at 287 Lower Addiscombe Road above the Harlequin Hair Salon, which was a '60s timewarp run by a very nice Greek chap called George. I remember the old station, which I never used, and the Blackhorse Inn at the top of Blackhorse Road which I did.
The South East and Chatham Railway Society wanted to save the station, but it wasn't in a great state at closure - a ceiling collapsed about a month before closure.
"Another of those lines built out of territorial rivalry." Were the Victorian railway companies run by cats?
I like the old retaining wall. I'm glad they kept it.
Jago Hazard Railway Videos ; the only ones with added squirrel.
This is a really special video for me. I grew up in Croydon, and have family in Addiscombe. We have special memories at the railway park. On Google maps, I was exploring new green spaces to get some fresh air in lockdown. The railway park is the thinnest strip of land I've ever seen on Google maps (it's quite funny to see), but it's a marvellous plot of land. Yes, it may look mundane to some, but I guess the memories made there were special. Thanks for putting Addiscombe on the map! Thank you also for your fascinating story telling!
In the 50s/60s/70s my grandmother lived within walking distance of Addiscombe station yet I can only remember using it once. For a faster service up to London I would catch the No.12 bus to East Croydon station. Bingham Road (Halt) was much closer to the Black Horse shopping area. There was nothing around the station but a handful of shops and large houses. A white elephant indeed.
sometimes you just need a bit of space to park up out of service peak use rolling stock
12a bus linked Norwood junction and east Croydon and then carried on past the old selsdon station … 197 was quicker direct along Morland Road
@@KatharineA0203 Route 12 was the traditional route between Addiscombe and Croydon, having provided the service continuously since before 1934. By comparison the 12A, introduced in January 1972, was insignificant; its sole purpose being to cut operating costs by utilising one-man-operated buses in place of the much-loved Routemaster buses.
I'm all Addiscombed out and I've never even been there. Nice to see they kept a big old wall though. 🚂
An eerily deserted area when Jago potters about with trusty camera, for our benefit.
I wonder whether it ever had much of a future - it was too close to East Croydon, which was always the most direct route from Croydon into London, on one side, and to Bingham Road on the other (until that closed of course), which duplicated the same route into London that Addiscombe had; moreover, both those other stations also gave access to points south, which Addiscombe didn't. If its line had got extened further it might have been another story, but as things were it was just the end of a one-stop branch, and they tend not to do well. So unless converted into something else (like an Underground terminus) I don't think it had any real future. Even as an Underground station it might have ended up surviving just as East Croydon's poor relation (compare Watford Met vis-a-vis Watford Junction).
Thank you Jago for your well researched video. As one who often walks along the linear park, and frequently hops on trans to Elmers End and Beckenham from Addiscombe tram stop I appreciate so clearly how much of a breakthrough was made by the introduction of very frequent trams. So many more people use the line than ever was the case before trams came.
Another observation from my viewpoint in Croydon is how much Thameslink has improved north-south travel locally with fast connection between East Croydon and Coulsdon South.
But also because the trams go somewhere people want to go. The line from Woodside to Sanderstead really didn't, and that's why it didn't survive (incidentally, it didn't even reach South Croydon or the LB&SCR main line; it merged with what became the branch line to East Grinstead).
Hiya Jago - I like that 'Monument' (or what ever you want to call it) @ 5:28 - Cheerio 🙂🚂🚂🚂
Could it be the world's shortest railway?
@@ianthomson9363 Could be - Ian Thomson - Uncle Fredrikson's Amazing Balancing Wagons might just fit on it!!! (See Sam's trains video :- ua-cam.com/video/tUZmrHp7050/v-deo.html 😉🚂🚂🚂
The disused railway path has a better surface than the Mall !!!
I seem to spend a lot of time with Jago’s videos side-by-side with a London map, doing the rail tracing. I’m learning so much about the outer zones. I love it. Bravo, sir.
I used to work just round the corner from the station. Moved away from Croydon in the late 80's. Didn't go back to the area till about about 10 years ago
and driving down Lower Addiscombe Road I thought, where's the station gone.
I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned, but the authorities unwisely used stick-on letters for tram stop names on the Tramlink. As a result, "Addiscombe" was soon changed to "Disco" by the local teens.
Hi Jago from sunny Spain. This is a bit off the beaten track for me but, nevertheless interesting, as your contributions to keeping my dementia at bay, usually are.
I was a rare regular user. It was handy if you wanted to reach and Lewisham and Catford from the south. (a lot of people worked at the Lewisham Town Hall at Catford). Trains from Catford sometimes ran to Sanderstead. The branch was also useful as it gave a decent service to Catford from London Bridge at the end of the rush hour, until then decided, annoyingly, to turn the trains to Addiscombe into empty stock instead of London Bridge and first stop Ladywell.
Various changes at the end of the 1980s, including Thameslink, gradually made what had been a pleasant easy commute into a pain.
Those lines that were BR (and predeccessors) still have privilege rights for free travel for train company employees , being classed as part of the national rail system for such purposes.
When you said it was complicated, i got the missus and kids to watch as well so they could explain it to me if i got confused.
Now when my kids ask me why there's no underground trains near us, I can wax lyrical about what might have been. Great video.
I caught a train from Lewisham to Stanmore for a number of years in the 70's, It's a short walk from Addison Rd to Stanmore station. Croydon is a stop on the same line.
Sydney has what London hasn't.
The Jam's unsuccessful first lyric attemp " A Town Called Addis"
Remember that line well - my Dad was a railway guard who seemed to mostly work that branch.
Always love your Croydon videos! Big fan of Addiscombe and the Railway Park, it’s a great piece of Croydon-as-was. And a great Croydon what-if, of course!
Also: I’m sure you know this, but you can still see what survives of Central Croydon station in the Queens Gardens just across from Croydon Town Hall. It’s interesting to see Victorian railway… stuff… on the fringes of a recently-modernised park.
That terminal station (apart from being close to the Metcalfe cardboard range), looks suitable for kit bashing the airfix station building into the nice terminal.
I rode this line (from Addiscombe to London) in the last few years of its existence, at a time when the *other* line through Woodside (through Combe Lane) was disused, and there were houses built across it at Teevan Close. Fast forward a bit and it is the Addiscombe line that is closed and the Combe Lane line that has been reopened as part of Croydon Tramlink (well, the northern part of it as far as Coombe Road, where Tramlink then turns east to follow the south side of the park). And the houses in Teevan Close have been demolished.
The novellist R F Delderfield used to live in Addiscombe when he was younger, and it is interesting to see that he took the names used in his books from the road names in the area: Havelock and Outram (school houses in To Serve Them All My Days) are the ones I can remember. His "Avenue" novels were set somewhere in the area.
Interesting that they chose to demolish the almost brand new Teevan Close houses rather than try to find a through tram route from Addiscombe to East Croydon instead.
@@iankemp1131 I thought that. When I rode the line, it was before I knew about the plans for the Croydon Tramlink. I remember looking at the map of the disused trackbed (the one which is now Tramlink) as I passed on the train and thought "those new houses put paid to any plans to open that line", as I tend to idly speculate when I see a disused line.
Then I heard that the line was reopening and that the new houses (Teevan Close) were going to be demolished. I was surprised. I suppose the expected profits from running services on the line made it worthwhile to pay a fairly small amount (in the grand scheme of things) to buy a few houses to demolish
them.
@@Mortimer50145 Sounds logical, except that I would substitute "benefits" for "profits". Mass transit systems are rarely if ever profitable, but the cities they serve would often grind to a halt without them, or at any rate a lot of journeys would be much slower and more awkward. The Overground and Tramlink are both good examples of this, well worth the investment.
This was my route to work for a good few years, Catford Bridge to Elmers End, then in to Addiscombe. Thanks for sharing.
You didn't mention the sidings for stock that was at Addiscombe.
Think they ran through trains from Addiscombe in the morning from the sidings and late night ones back. Remember looking round the old signal box and noticed most of the equipment had names on the back as to who was going to have them when the boxed closed.
Great film thanks for sharing.
Those early morning trains from Addiscombe sidings were my alarm clock for work. The tracks right at the bottom of my garden.
@@smeghead7698
Are where the sidings were. Is now the builders yard?
Great video. I remember dropping my Mini off for mechanical work near the station. I used the branch line and remember thinking how fun down it was in 1994. Similar but in worse condition and far few passengers than Bromley North.
I lived in Addiscombe for a few years - but never felt the need to use the station with East Croydon walkable.
As ever a fascinating tale of one of my local lines . Oh my if only the Metropolitan Railway had run trains to Addiscombe! I’m looking at the TfL Go tube map. Let me see, yes I’ve got it , Aldgate , a through station on the Metropolitan. Addiscombe to Uxbridge. I like it.
Jago: "Addiscombe Addiscombe Addiscombe"
*Poof* Demon of railroads past appears. "What do you have to say for yourself??"
Jago: "....Charles Yerkes"
*Demon disappears in a blast of hot air*
I do think that the Tramlink could of extend to Biggin Hill. I have been on the Tramlink when it first went into service and I quite enjoyed riding on it. Nice to see some of the old former railway lines in South London now used as a public footpath.
There was a campaign to save the station building, as it was the last surviving example of an urban rail terminus in Greater London. It was granted Grade II listed status, the day the bulldozers demolished it, before permission was granted. Nobody was prosecuted for it. The rail museum was also a proposal for a heritage line, for diesel trains. It would have provided a service to connect the West side of Addiscombe to the tram at Blackhorse Lane. Now it’s either a 15 minute walk to East Croydon station, or to what used to be Bingham Road station, now Addiscombe tram stop, to use the tram. The area, my area where I live, would have really benefited from the proposed heritage line. Instead, the housing estate that replaced it has done nothing for the area. The local shops closed down, along with the pub, many of those shops have been badly converted into residential properties. A heritage railway would have brought people to the area and likely kept those shops from closing for good.
I used to use the service from Addiscombe, to travel up to Charing Cross, after direct services from East Croydon were cut, and to Lewisham. It was more convenient to use than East Croydon station and far less crowded, as well as closer.
I used to live in Woodside and remember when the railway bridge over Addiscombe High Street was demolished. I've still got a photo of the bridge somewhere!
And thank you once again dear Jago. You are the Addiscombe of my pronunciation-ness!
Was on that last train on the LILO (Last in Last out) tour in 1997 with the 4 VEP EMU's 3543+3544. Same train on that tour as the last from Wimbledon to West Croydon and was a very memorable day still as if yesterday. Videos are on UA-cam of the tour that include arriving at Addiscombe Railway Station that seeing this shows even more to how much has changed since then. Knew and still know some who were working so hard to hopefully make the Station and line into a running museum. Unfortunately there were those against the idea.
I’m amazed at the enthusiasm by private companies to build railways in the 19th century. I wish we had that in Australia. The few examples we had rapidly folded and were taken over by the government. We lack the population to sustain anything more than bus services. During the 1980s it was accepted that the motor car was the only way forward and many lines closed.
670m to the south-west of here, along the new tramway lines, is the infamous Sandiland curve where a driver fell asleep with his foot on the loud pedal causing a massive toppling over and deadly derailment in 2016. Such is the snail's pace of investigations, boards of enquiry and the legal system, the tram driver, facing charges under the Health & Safety at Work Act, has yet to have his pre-trial assessment for Crown Court.
while the driver was culpable the whole junction layout was a disaster waiting to happen, while we expect bus drivers to stay alert - there is normally plenty going on to keep your attention alertness happening, the drone of the track past the wall and through the tunnel is a little too sleep inducing
@@highpath4776 And the crazy shift patterns.
I used to walk and ride the tram around here on my lunch breaks when I worked in the "50p building" in Croydon. It would be interesting to see you do a video about the line to Sanderstead and how it now serves Sandilands and Lloyd Park tram stops. You'll probably remember the terrible accident that happened there a few years ago.
Not surprised it shut down darling - it seems very bumpy. Mind you, disused railways give me the willies, about the only thing that does. I find them very haunting x
Addiscombe more than most. Switched out multiple units would burst into life, and other inexplicable happenings.
@@borderlands6606 I used to live near what was, in the inter-war years, a shunting yard on the Swansea-Brecon railway. It was eerie, especially given the single track which still ran the class 37 between the Penwyllt colliery and the Onllwyn washeries, from which a distinctive push-me-pull-you shunter similar to a class 7 could be seen in the distance. I used to wander the old line wondering about the trains which used to ply it, the passengers and the experience of local residents. And i wasn't even shaving... x
How quickly former railway lines disappear. Apart from a few straight bits there's very little to show there was ever a railway. This is equally true of comparative backwaters like Addiscombe as main lines like the Great Central and routes like the Woodhead. Sic transit gloria mundi, as Jacob Rees-Mogg must have said.
There still is (at least until quite recently) a pedestrian bridge over the old Bingham Road to Selsdon branch between Coombe Lane (where the trams leave the old line and head past Lloyd Park to New Addington and Selsdon. Not sure of Jago's done it, but Geoff Marshall definitely has.
My home for the first 46 years of my life 😄😄that’s my old junior & infant school on the right as you come under the bridge
That was a bit different, Jago, and I think you should do more disused lines videos.
I'm frankly amazed Addiscombe hung on that long. One would have thought it would have been a prime target for Beeching, or even would have closed much earlier.
Good evening, all.
Easily my fav channel
Looking at the photos and the new property, I wonder if Addiscombe in the 60s/70s was simply far enough out of London for commuters to be happy in their cars and therefore not enough pressure to retain a public service. I wonder how many now drive from home to an expensive car park at a station/tube station...
I never thought of that being a possible route for the underground what an amazing fact
Great video Jago
At least the retaining wall is still in situ so there's at least some reference point that's obvious to casual investigators like myself.. Thanks Jago.
Well, I never knew they planned to reach Redhill from addiscombe - I suspect that would have taken some engineering through the downs!
Did anyone have Addiscombe as part of their drinking game? If so, are you still standing? 😜
In fact they partly managed that with the line through to South Croydon/Selsdon which joined up with the SER line to Oxted and was a stones throw from the line to Redhill which was shared with the LBSCR. But by then Redhill was of no real interest to the SER. It seemed surprising that the Southern electrified the Selsdon line; it was a potential diversionary route round East Croydon but only if the track further on was electrified, which it wasn't until after the Elmers End-Selsdon line closed! I travelled on that line near the closure date; it was peak hours only and again carried a handful of passengers. I think BR were too embarrassed to close electrified routes.
Advised reading: Wimbledon to Beckenham Junction Before Tramlink (Middleton Press). Loads more on the Addiscombe branch.
Addiscombe feels like it did have great potential. I think it’s cool.
Used to live just around the corner from Addiscombe station when trains were still operating. Never used them, sorry. Usually wanted to go to Clapham Junction or Victoria. So East Croydon much more convenient even with the longer walk. Might just have worked if I had worked in The City. But East Croydon has good service for London Bridge too.
I love your work.
Old lines should have trams on them now, bravo again Jago
These lines are probably carrying more passengers on them now as trams than they ever did as railways!
My 1970s memories of travelling on the Wimbledon-West Croydon line were of two coach trains with an hourly service that it was very little used (off peak, at least). I'm fairly sure I was the only passenger between Wimbledon and Waddon Marsh on more than one occasion. When I did the same trip on the tram a couple of years back it was very busy, crowded even, and made me wonder how all the new passenger traffic had come to be. Maybe the demand was always there, but customers were put off by a tatty and run-down demeanor, with semi-derelict stations, long service intervals and (in the 70s at least) rather old and grubby EMUs.
Nice to see you getting some exercise, so you can be healthy, and keep recording more videos for us. Also, the map at 0m20s has lead me to discover that in 2004, John Mortimer wrote a heretofore unsuspected-by-me novel called "Rumpole and the Penge Bungalow Murders", which I really ought to inhale.
Addis comb
Addis produced quite a few plastic products
The Addis brush salesman used to call on my Gran periodically.
Addiscombe tram stop may not be near where Addiscombe station was but it is on the site of a disused station and over the road from another
Loved the old station
Great work for being 3rd
@@Sophiebryson510 you can't spell trains 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I was one of those rare passengers on the line in the 90s. The 2 EPBs were replaced with class 466 units, and there were always a few units stabled in the sidings.
@@seanbonella oh my god. It was one mistake, calm down
@@Sophiebryson510 calm yourself it was a joke 🤣
Having grown up in the Croydon area, let me say that the only reason to catch a train to London is if your daily commute takes you there. Otherwise, you rarely even consider using a train. To judge whether Addisombe Station was doomed from the outset, merely requires a survey of its catchment area, and consideration of whether the rail service was ever adequate for the purposes of getting into Central London. In the first half of the 20th Century, it probably did have a suitable catchment area, but, as you say, the service itself was slow, often required a change of train (anathema to the commuter), and offered no advantage over the service from East Croydon in terms of the destination station. Indeed, Victoria (available from East Croydon but not Addiscombe) was far more attractive to those working around Westminster and the West End, so the trains from Addiscombe would not even have been considered for such a journey. Presumably, the original idea was to extend the line southwards to join the South Eastern lines to Redhill somewhere near Purley or Coulsdon, and, if this had happened, and the company speeded up services, this may have given the route a lifeline, since it would have cut out the Croydon bottleneck. Had the Metropolitan scheme succeeded, and the East London line been used to get direct access to Metropolitan and/or District underground stations in the City, via St Mary's curve, it would have attracted some traffic from East Croydon, although there were competing services to Liverpool Street from West Croydon using a similar route. The Fleet Line to Addiscombe would certainly have saved the station, although there would have been great pressure to extend the line southwards, probably to an interchange at Coulsdon North. This would have allowed the Southern Electric stabling there to have been used, rather than be demolished to form a rather stupid and ugly by-pass road.
Yes, thoroughly enjoyed the video.
Hayes station looks more like somewhere you'd run your car in for a MOT than somewhere you'd catch a train!
great video Jago, really informative Thanks
The line was always only ever going to survive as long as it was an element of the competition for traffic from greater Croydon - i.e. before 1923 as part of the SECR. After Grouping it was never going to be viable and, as stated elsewhere, the surprise is that it lasted as long as it did. Ultimately, remember, it ended up not as a primary route but as the branch off the Woodside-Sanderstead line, which should itself have had greater traffic potential given its connection to the secondary routs to Brighton but instead fell victim to the rundown and axing of those services. As you note, the key to Addiscombe's longevity had to be the stabling and presumably minor servicing facilities available in the shed. Once alternatives to that had been developed (remember this was also one of the nails in the coffin of Crystal Palace High Level) then it truly lost its raison d'etre.
Addiscombe was really not a lot of use as a dead-end station and the line is far more useful now that it runs through to East Croydon and the town centre which is where most people want to go. Interesting that they chose to run from Bingham Road into Croydon rather than using the stretch up to Addiscombe, but the justification seems to be that it then provided the shortest route for the new line from New Addington.
"These days Addiscombe is served by a _tram,_
but it used to be served by a _railway station."_
Now, that is quite the form of transport: a railway station 😄😄
Great video, thank you!
The reuse of most of this branch for Tramlink was a very sensible solution. It's not a long walk to East Croydon for fast trains into London anyway.
Similarly, while it would be nice to have kept the old building, it was hardly an architectural masterpiece, and land for housing is desperately needed in London, so I can't argue with that either.
I visited a mate who was one of the Signalman there in 1974 and it was a decent hike to the end of platform 1!
The question still remains - was it legally closed?
Does the Tram actually run on part of the route
As the closure would have been authorised by an act of Parliament, yes.
@@IndigoJo In theory, yes. But did that ever happen? As I currently understand it, it did not.
@@bingbong7316 The whole Tramlink project was covered by an Act of Parliament. That would have included any line closures or re-purposing
It's so important that you make records of the past, history is so often lost because people think it's not important
On the whole, while I'm normally fond of rail, it's hard to argue against adding to the housing supply. Too bad the architecture of said housing wasn't a bit nicer looking, though.
I don't know about the line's long-term viability, but I think the station was worth saving.
I agree that cutting transit is a false economy.
Addiscombe. Addiscombe. Addiscombe. Addiscombe. Addiscombe. Addiscombe.
It certainly looks a bit of a white elephant although there probably are other white elephants which are actually enjoying a busy old time of it today. However, looking at google maps extending it would probably have arrived at South Croyden and had some interesting discussions with LBSCR. Still, such an extension might have made it more attractive as an Underground line takeover. What might have been, eh? Although, might that have had an effect on the viability of the trams? Consequences!
Most interesting, Jago!
Nice video!..Good to see Redhill get a few mentions..about time for a video on Redhill and the Quarry line?
I was never lucky enough to ride on the Addiscombe branch , I did wonder why they never built a second tram route that way.
Once you stop through trains to London, you can expect a decline in passenger numbers. It's then only a matter of time before it's not worth keeping the line open.
Ironic that the Elmers end-addiscombe line was closed due to being very underused, yet now Elmers end is almost impossible to use via trams as there’s almost always delays due to a lack of rolling stock
I spent most of the first half of this video assuming this would be another case where they never electrified this branch line and so it was closed