I have 4 vintage pieces. I use the 2mm pin. In order to eliminate any chance of shorting, instead of tape, I use shrink tubing, red and black, right up to and slightly over the connection. Great video.
Just as reference, 16 gauge wire is 4 ohms.....per 1000 feet. That said take a 10 foot piece of same equals 0.04 ohms. That intern is 0.005 out of 8 ohms or 0.5% of your load (speaker) value. Making that even easier to understand for a typical 100 Watt/channel amp we are looking at a loss of half of one watt dissipated within the speaker wire per side so a total of 1 watt loss in speaker wire. Because our ears work on a logarithmic scale no one can hear the difference between 100 and 99 watts. That explains why it is actually a great gauge to go with as when using stranded wire it is also usually easy to work with yet physically strong enough to not worry about. 14 Gauge (0.025 ohms/10')is the absolute largest I would ever use unless we are talking commercial installations with really long runs of speaker wire. Those are just the simple laws of a mister Georg Ohm and those laws don't change over time.
Thanks Kevin, just like the way you dismiss the High End narrative with simple, straightforward solutions that doesn’t break the bank. Recently I went to a hi-fi emporium and the salesman showed me a massive power cable demonstration by swapping it out (Hegel amplifier) to hear the difference. Unfortunately my wife didn’t hear him tell me what to hear. She chose the regular anemic-looking cord, I laughed, then we left.
The late great Roger Russell of McIntosh recommended 18 gauge wire because he wanted a little bit of resistance between the amp and speakers. He has his own website that is awesome.
Thank you for the video, all I needed to hear was McIntosh and Fischer, took me right to the correct spade connectors for my newly purchased Sansui 2000 with the dreaded screw speaker wire terminals. Man this Sansui sounds incredible.
Clearly we share a similar perspective on expensive speaker wire. I sold (almost literally) a ton of Monster Cable back in the late 70's and early 80's and crimped my share of connectors. As a college aged salesperson, I memorized all the talking points. My personal opinion was and still is, that Monster Cable (along with all the others) did as much or more to improve retailer profitability as it did to enhance the listening experience. The Kool-Aid was really flowing as they entered the inter-connect cable space. I currently use 16 ga, properly terminated speaker cables. I'm sure there are many who disagree with me, and to them I say "spend away".
Cable thin enough to generate heat would be a toaster, iron or hair dryer. Super thin cable is called a filament which gets you into incandescent light territory if enclosed in a bulb filled with special gas. Even a monster Pioneer SX-1980 would only need 14 gauge wire to power speakers. If you had a tower of speakers needed to host an A;ice Cooper concert you might need thicker speaker wire to power massive tower speakers. However for home listening 14 gauge copper wire will do just fine for home systems.
When I was in college (decades ago) I had friends who would buy a stereo and received 22 gauge wire with it. Upgrading to lamp cord was a no brainer. That's probably the most effective speaker wire upgrade. Due to the dynamic range of music, and the fact that twice as loud requires 10 times the power, there is rarely an instance where your speaker wire is ever going to get warm from playing your music. There's a limited return on investment as you go up in size/down in gauge, as the ratio of the wire resistance to the speaker impedance drops quickly. How much having smaller strands of copper in your cable actually makes a noticeable difference in sound will likely be debated until the end of time. However, if I bought an exotic (expensive) speaker cable, you can bet that I could hear a difference, even if there was none.
Have used zip cord ( 14 or 12 gauge as copper was cheaper then) for passed 50 years and hasn't failed me yet. Banana plugs whenever I could, and always tinned cables regardless of connectors I needed to use as it made all those little copper strands into one solid wire. dual banana plugs are great to help keep things in phase when you can use them. Just found channel enjoy your videos!
I'm kind of new to all this, and I'm glad this video popped up. I was never sure what to use and of course the " bigger is better" always comes into play. I always wondered about bigger speaker wire. I'm using regular speaker wire on my Adcom 555 amp to Polk speakers. Which use the banana style clips. I guess I will just keep on keeping on instead of buying into the bigger cable thing. Thanks
❤Kevin, your tech advice here is terrific! Generally, I like what you have to say about vintage gear. I was considering upgrading to a non-vintage system, but I found your channel first - Lucky me! I will continue to use my circa 1981 Mitsubishi DA15DC amp, DA-P20 preamp with a stacked set of 1978 Boston A100s. (Stacking is testing now) Other components in my collection include Mitsubishi DA- P20, DA-M10, DA-F20 tuner, matching DP-EC1 turntable and two DA-M10 meters. I did modernize my streaming with a Schiit Modi3 usb DAC. Somehow my original spool of clear-jacketed 14AWG copper lamp cord has never gotten misplaced. Oh Yeah, 100’ of good cable does go along way😅in making a great sounding system sound its best. Admittedly I should thin my herd somewhat.
Personally, I opt to get slight upgrades in wires as opposed to "audiophiles". World's Best Cables and the like. Just for a bit of durability. I bought my original system from a high-end place across from where I was a chef in the 90s. They sold stuff all the way up to the highest-end equipment. Wilson, Nordost, Dunleavy, etc. I spent a lot of time in their listening rooms and never heard a real difference between two 3-meter speaker cables that cost $90 versus the same that cost $5000. The guys who owned it were really cool and they didn't want to call out their big spenders but they told me there are plenty of areas where spending helps but cables wasn't one of them. I remember The Absolute Sound did a cable comparison about 25 or more years ago and they took a flyer on a hack using heavy-duty Home Depot extension cords as the speaker wire. They just clipped off the plugs, tapped off the nub of the ground wire, and attached spades. The damn things finished right in the middle of their comparison!
Maybe something that's useful to offer. I make binding post extensions for my clamp or screw type speaker/amp connections when I encounter them. I connect a short lead of heavy guage speaker wire (about 1.5") to a binding post soldered and covered with shrink wrap to install into these connectors, if the hole is too small for the speaker cable I use for this adapter I remove enough of the strands and tin them to fit for the open screw type I use spades and cover them up to the blades with shrink wrap. Sure they hang down a bit but this allows for the use of quality speaker cable in large guages and they can be reused for other amp/speaker applications. Works great! I usually include a set to a buyer of any of the vintage kit I sell as well, it's always appreciated. Great job Kevin, love this channel!
I buy the 12 gauge pure copper in 300 foot spools from Monoprice. ..attach pins, bananas, or spades…works for my Vintage amps..and I love Parts express..great source for stuff.
The Cable Company made my speaker wires. Nice people to deal with and reasonably priced. They will make custom lengths and let you choose the right connectors.
That’s what I just bought pure copper 12 gauge. The strands are thicker , made in USA 🇺🇸. I have been running it for 25 years on the same speakers and never had a problem ever. I always read it’s less taxing on the amplifier. Also it is very durable because it’s big and it just looks amazing when I look at it everyday draped neatly like snakes all over.
I’m going to give the pin type a try. My Pioneer SX 939 has the spring clips. It plays perfect for about 20 mins and then I get horrid static and death rattles. I’ve taken it for service twice and they tell me nothing is wrong with it. thanks for this suggestion. I hope it’s my problem.
I recently had a Kenwood KA-9100 repaired and the twist connectors were not tightening up properly so he replaced those connectors with dual twist or banana connector and using the banana plug adapters work great and much easier to work with. I use the banana plug adapters whenever I can
Thank you for a great video. It occurred to me, if you put a big shrinking sleeve to cover the handle of the banana plug that could be a good thing. Use the one without the glue here, so it is easier to open up again if you need to do the wires again. I am also in the same business. Have nice day everyone.
Great video! Two points: 1. Avoid over tightening old connections as plastic parts can break and screws can strip out. 2. Check connections frequently as wires tend to loosen up and oxidation can cause poor conductivity.
I am installing some spade to female banana plugs to the back of a few of my recievers and amps, just for convenience and actually to eliminate the chance of arking. Good video!
After dealing/suffering with heavier gauge wire and halfway functional spring clips on my main/daily vintage receiver, I went all in. Utilizing my nearly non-exisitent soldering "skills", I replaced the spring clips with 5 way binding posts. The finished product damn near looks like a factory install and I haven't looked back
Just came across your videos - really like your style of presentation and the info you present. About speaker wire. I use 12 gauge stranded speaker wire - red and black pair. A 100 ft spool from Amazon is about 20 or so bucks. The biggest problem with running speaker wire is not running it in parallel with power cables closer than about 12 inches as they will pick up the 120V interference - hummmmm. I know that many audiophiles say that speaker wire thickness does not matter. But, I notice a big difference in base with the heavier wire. Maybe my imagination. But, just saying.....
I just saw a adaptor plate that replaces those 18 gauge spring clips to banana connectors on my Marantz 2325 but just not sure what's involved to install the adaptor plate
I got to spend some time in the Klipsch factory demo/listening room, at the factory in Hope, with Roy Delgado and (at that time) beta Jubilee speakers...which are about $30K a pair...and all the other Heritage speakers. They had all these show pieces connected with plain THHN electrical wire...probably 12 AWG, if I remember right. If there had been a better-performing option they could, and would, have used it.
I met a Banging Olefson co-ed in college. I still have my heavier gauge lamp cord I bought for my 1978 system. I have some 25 year old Monster cable in there now. Had nicer banana plugs put in my JBL L65s when they were refurbished. What do you think about the flat- solid blade connectors for the vintage push button slots?
Sixteen Gauge wire is absolutely all that is needed for speaker wire. Larger gauges will normally not harm the sound but will not improve it either. Most of my audio equipment is vintage and uses the screw terminals and My Marantz 3300 Preamplifier has the spring connectors to push in the wires. This allows the output from the power amp to have a speaker selector switch and headphone jack on the preamp. I also have a Dynaco stereo 120 and it has banana connectors with standard 3/4 inch centers to allow the use of dual banana plugs. Most speakers that have banana plugs do not use this spacing. The problem is that the 3/4 inch spacing is very close to the 2 centimeter spacing used in England and Europe for 220 volt electrical cords. The banana connectors are the best to use for speakers and most amps these days have these connectors. Many speakers still use the spring push in type though.
I've used a lot of zip cord over the years...really never had any issues that I could discern. Mostly just never wanted to pay for Monster Cable and could never really hear the difference it supposedly made in the sound. Thanks for the info on the angled connectors...I try and use bananas whenever possible, but those angled connectors would definitely be a little easier & neater than just wrapping wire around the connection posts.
Catching up on your videos since I joined this site. I love it, so informative. At 65 and owning stereo equipment since the mid 70's I was always told you couldn't go wrong with a 16 gauge speaker wire and at times 14 gauge. I always thought monster was the best cable and have never used banana plugs. Am I missing out here?
I think wire gauge on short runs isn’t a big issue in terms of audio quality. It is probably better to use thicker speaker cable with high powered amplifiers and longer runs to loudspeakers. Probably can’t go wrong following the amp’s instruction manual.
Lamp cord works as well as anything that costs hundreds of times as much --- and leaves the owner with a lot of money that can be spent on music to play. I have tried some affordable heavy - gauge speaker wire and found that 8 feet of # 12 sounds EXACTLY the same as 50 feet of #18. That is all the evidence I need.
You have techs and the equipment. Do a video and test different gauge wire & connectors . Put the speakers on the bench and compare the specs. If there is an audible difference there will also be measurable differences in a a bench test beyond obvious differences in ohms/resistance. I have shopped at Parts Express and Monoprice. Both are excellent.
@Skylabs Audio: Would you ever consider changing the connector type on a receiver? I have Pioneer SX1080 and wonder if it would be an upgrade to use the spade connectors you showed here with heavy gage wire?
I laugh when I think of the snake-oil buying audiophiles connecting their 10 guage cables to screw down terminals and reducing the effective wire guage to a fraction of the cable. It's almost as funny as them freting over digital interconnect cables. I love your comments in the begining of the video.
There are people that claim they can "hear" the difference between $20 cables and $100 cables and $600 cables. I pushed a friend of mine who made such claims to do an A/B that I would set up for him and see if he can really tell the difference. He failed. Miserably. I "switched" 4 times without actually making a change; I just muted and unmuted the system and he swore I had change cables. Then I would switch to a cheaper cable, then to a more expensive, then back, then just basic Home Depot spool speaker cable. His rate of success was about 32%. This is true in almost all cases. I've never had access to $1200 cables or more, but for at least anything under a few hundred bucks, it's not worth an investment. This also holds true for all of the wild power conditioners people use. If you don't have a buzz, they make no difference.
Watching your video on Sansui 20,000. One just came up it’s funny I was just watching it an hour ago for thousand dollars. Needs work great shape. I know I should grab it but
With the spring push connectors, I wouldn't use a pin connector. The surface area that makes the connection is so very small, just top and bottom of a very small pin. I'd use bare stranded wire that will be somewhat smashed down making much more surface contact. If the wire is too big, then cut a few strands back up the end and solder those all together to leave a stranded portion for the spring connector to bite down on.
this is the correct way. properly cleaned and stranded wire is exactly what spring connectors are designed to make a solid connection with. screw downs get rings or spades soldered to the bare wire and connectors designed for pins get pins soldered to the bare wire. most importantly you have clarified if one ever removes strands from a cable end there should be a dab of solder flowed back into the cable where the cut off strands can mate via solder with their neighbors
Hi! Thanks for the video, it is very informative, and actually it helps with my problem - i will need a pin connector with my Harman Kardon 730. BUT you are missing DIN connection, which was popular on European amps, and it was not something unique what just B&O used.
Most of my speaker wire sets I've made myself, from 100% copper 12-14-16ga wire (Amazon), in various lengths, with quality banana plugs on both ends. I'm a big fan of the banana to spade, or banana to pin adapters. Also, just curious, what do you think of right angle plugs to relieve stress behind gear?
I've been dealing with this problem for years, I figured out to use black heat shrink wrap on the negative wire banana plugs, 'just leave the screw on cover off' cause the tape would come loose, an make a sticky mess
The purpose of speaker wire is to send the signal to the speaker, so buying uber expensive cables simply doesn't make much sense. I do have a question about the quality of the wire being used, but even then, going north of $50 for, just an example, 6 ft speaker cables is a case study for diminishing returns, IMO. I've always just bought Monster Cables, and I've never had an issue with those. My old man bought them, he's not exactly who you'd call an audiophile but he does appreciate a good clean signal for his Klipsch Fortes, and I never heard him complain. And I'm writing this after having read the comment above about selling tons of Monster Cables 😅. But consider the time period, as well. This all began during the mid 80's. Prior to that, we had an old Realistic sound system, and that system didn't have expensive wires and still sounded alright, although it was rather long in the tooth... He bought ithe spools for the convenience, rather than going the DIY route. He simply didn't have the time to do it himself. He still had to terminate them, but it was the better choice for him. Where I come in at is, I noticed how dark and brittle the wires were for the older system we had, compare to the Monsters he bought. And that moment made me think about the quality of said wire of the cables. I was about 10-11yrs old at the time, so call me impressionable. Those Monster Cables looked far better than those old plain brown cables that the older system had. I knew I wanted my own sound system someday, and these things stuck with me. Would those older wires still work? Sure....maybe? But could you depend on them years later, being as cheap and brittle as they seemed to be? So, regardless of expense, I do think quality of the wire matters more than the guage used. But I don't think the quality is going to supercede similarly spec'd wires from another source. BTW, my dad's original Monster Cables are still doing their thing, and he took my Monsters along with my Bose 401's, which were roughly 15 years newer than his 401's (told you he wasn't exactly an audiophile...). There's nothing wrong or shameful with buying Monster Cables in this time and era. I still use them today, and if anyone dares to question me about them, I just turn my Carver/Klipsch system and let them figure it out.
Im beginning to wonder if this is a pointless exorcise as you could use the heaviest gauge wire possible but it still connects to terminals on the amp which in turn are fed by tiny thin wires from a circuit board, its like turning on a garden hose into a 6" pipe your still only going to get the same amount flowing out the end.
Great review Kevin! - Quick question; I have 14 gauge copper cables connected to my vintage Sansui receiver spring terminals (to my Klipsch Heresy III's), playing very well. I wanted to connect 12 gauge OFC copper cables to it only because I have the extra cable for it for another system I plan on buying. Bottom line, they are too big for the connector (as you stated) and would require the Silverback pin connectors to make it happen. Would there be any noticeable improvement in sound quality with the 12 gauge via Silverback, plus the added risk of them being so close together - or should I just leave well enough alone?? Thanks again
These Nakamichi banana connector aluminium outer tubes are actually conductive! Use insulating tape, or like I do - transparent soft plastic tube on top - that looks much better than the thbe and does not leave that sticky residue.
Jim Fosgate who was a good personal friend of my father-in-law once told me to buy a roll of good quality lamp cord. He said the difference between that and higher quality speaker cable is hardly noticeable.
"Hardly noticeable" is still "noticeable" (for some). These expensive cable manufacturers are doing something right, or they would not still be around for going on 40 years. They can't be all "marketing and snake oil" and still be in business 40 years later.
Here's my suggestion for an experiment. Buy some 18 gauge high grade lamp cord and 14 gauge. Cut a 1ft length of 18 gauge and 14 gauge. Connect your speaker to your amp 1 ft both sides, then pump a mono signal into each speaker. I'll take a gander you won't hear a difference. Then cut two twenty ft. length of wire, one 18 gauge the other 14 gauge. Put both speakers twenty feet from the amp and the 18 gauge channel will sound mushy and the tweeter will sound weak. It's copper, distance and gauge to match the distance, volume and speaker efficiency. Electro Voice has application tables, I believe. Expensive speaker cable is snake oil in my opinion, IT'S THE GAUGE THAT MATTERS NOT SILVER! Sound reinforcement guys use 12 or 10 gauge I think, correct me if I'm wrong.
What if you splice cables to create composite connections eg to an amp or speaker switch box accepting different connectors than what extends to the amp or speaker?
The only thing my amp manual says about speaker cables "It is very important to use speaker cables of the correct diameter in order to reduce power loss". My speakers, rated 4ohm 900w, manual reads "Use the appropriate gauge of wire. A minimum of 18 gauge is recommended for up to 25 feet". I use heavy (10ga), good quality speaker cables because they sound better to me.
Solder a pin of your choice to the heavy gauge wire. Done it several times. Belden brand copper wire is a little cheaper than thick audio wire. Although all copper wire is outrageous. I use 10 ga.
I've done the tests ... Just as a car does not get easier to tow if you use a bigger chain, once you have wire that is able to carry the current bigger wires bring absolutely no benefit. I've used 16ga lamp cord for years... never a problem.
Hello folks. I always tin the wire because I can turn in into a spade lug or pin using solder that is made for electronic products 4% silver added. Not the plumber kind. Now nice fat wire I trim the end down for it will fit. Then I'm still crazy by thinking on my own or remembering someone else idea. Ride Easy
you should research "tinning wire with screw down connections" then stop doing this. also trimming down the end of a wire, IE removing individual strands of copper wire from the bundle, does exactly what is sounds like it does, it makes your low gauged wire into higher gauged wire and if enough wire is removed from one end could cause resistance and heat issues at the connection.
I use Monster 14 ga & I make connectors out of banana plugs so they fit push terminals - why oh why didn't someone get the bright idea about 5 way binding posts for receivers & amps earlier?
Five way binding posts cost more and are more prone to damage in shipment unless they are recessed into the amp. What are the "five ways" these posts support. You can wrap bare wire around them, you can feed the wire through the hole in the middle of the post and twist the post tight, you can use a proper spade lug and twist it down, you can insert a standard banana connecter into the top of the terminal. What is the fifth way?
If you must have bigger audio jewelry/wire try a clamp on y connector soldered and cutting one of legs. The pin is safe with quality electrical tape/vinyl tape. Ironic vinyl tape for vinyl playback.
Cable thickness playing a role in speaker sound fidelity or system functionality is a sales gimmick. Electrons are purpose built to flow through copper wire. Does size \ Wire Gauge matter? Yes but only to a VERY limited degree. Thicker copper wire makes electron flow to your speakers easier. Electrons encounter less resistance when flowing through thicker copper wire. Less resistance to electron flow equals less energy wasted as heat and more electrons reaching your speakers. This equation is valid only to a point. Once electron flow generates no detectable heat you've achieved optimal electron flow. 14 gauge copper wire is thick enough to allow optimal electron flow. Anything more is overkill. Electrons don't care about fancy cables or labels.
For real! I laugh at these idiots who spend thousands on speaker wire. Some people can’t resist the snake oil. I use crutchfields standard 10awg speaker wire and even that is probably overkill but I like the way it looks over standard off the shelf speaker wire and it’s relatively inexpensive to buy.
lol the argument makes me laugh and irritated at the same time. Personal I think to some degree both are correct. I say that because I'm pretty certain that it hasn't been as far back as the 70's through the 80's Audio gear was designed and built with the available Resistor's, Capacitors, and Transformers etc. They were designed with the limitations of those components and what was then known about electrical energy moved within. I remember it was early to mid 90's when I read an article on how electricity flows through wire. I assume up till then give the articles premise that the current flowed through the wire. It does not. It flows along the surface and along with the upgrading of internal parts and refined circuit designs the idea of larger cables came into being. Danny Richie of GR Research has done measurements showing, if I remember correctly, frequency response differences and put out criteria on not just cables but isolation from grounding against ground loop interference as I understand it. It makes since, but I have listened to his recordings of it either as I think he made spec recordings that are downloadable for comparison. However, the biggest caveats from him and several other reviewers was it's really your choice if you are satisfied with your synergy no worries, but if there is something bothering you that you can't put a finger on it could be cables. Some people use to argue that speaker isolators were shake oil as well and that burn in wasn't a thing either. One thing that few have touched on that I came to understand long ago is very few if anyone hears the same way when listening ear canals very and as such so does what we hear and perceive. This part of why there are so many different speaker designs and mfg. I am fairly certain most, but not all vintage has certain characteristics that are similar just as much as they have reflected by specific brands certain styles, quirks, and or characteristics Silver Face, Black Face, Meters no Meters, green lights blue lights, Tube like sound and so on. We know today certain abilities of given Amp Designs give certain specific characteristics and matching is as much luck as it is intuitive. In the End it's your choice and what you seek. Thanks for the info on this subject and the adding of a Sub to Vintage receivers.
An example of discovery and synergy is a recent vlog post by Thomas and Stereo. Who has been an Audiophile for at least 30 yrs and who stopped critical listening in favor of good enough and almost entirely devoid of talking down mfg and price in favor of performance and quality. He also does testing against by allowing his contemporaries of whom he has 7 or 8 Audiophile buddies with various systems they have acquired to review what he give them against their acceptable equipment not just his. Their systems, including his, run in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. At any rate he for years has tried to like Single Driver speakers like The Dirty Weekend by Zeus and or the Pearl Audio Speakers by Paul Lovegood. He hadn't succeeded till recently. He never got it till in a fluke he stopped trying to drive them with his various high powered digital or Tube Amps. Instead he put them to his tests with a 6 Watt Class A Tube Amp and was blown out by their presentation of his musical tastes. He said...Now he gets it. He reasoned though can't verify that high current amps were essentially overloading the voice coils on speaker materials creating a sound he couldn't stand but now with the useable and lower powered class A Tube amp or even a 15 watt receiver anyone like him love the single driver concentric speakers so many were Gaga over and find sonic Nirvana!
In the late 1990s, when I worked for The Good Guys, an audio video retailer on the west coast, they sent us to training. The trainer said that banana plugs are junk. The curved contacts, hence the name banana, ride around a central pin, and the contact occurs only at two very tiny points at the top and bottom of the banana portion. The banana portion spins around the center pin with only loose friction. He said it's a horrible design, with inherent poor contact and potential for corrosion and loose connections at these tiny points.
the trainer was exceptionally misleading. in a properly designed and manufactured banana plug made from gold/rhodium plated spring steel there are zero possibilities of this happening and in fact the opposite occurs, the banana ring compresses around the pin and forms a tight and secure physical connection. he is 100% correct about cheap connectors but to claim such a blanket statement is a huge red flag and his other advice should be questioned. the fact someone's job means they should know what they are saying rarely makes it true.
gawd I hated those ' easy to use' snap lever connects. max maybe 18 ga... etc. I'd 1000 times more have simple screw / spade lugs even the tiny at the time versions. ( I'm 73 ) On the other hand I've also had a couple versions of modern banana plugs in which the plugs actually come apart > the wire connect part seperates from the plug part. just press fit cheap. I used the same 14 ga wire set for like 25 years, zero issues but it was lookin grungy so I switched, 10 ga 'pure copper' actual I still would call it ' zip cord'. given less than 20 ft 'normal ' lengths I just don't think I'd ever reliably note a difference. $ 500. a foot stuff , not my cup of tea, not even close. like your shows, a lot.
Isn't is just a matter of math? You have your maximum power and resistance (speaker + cable), so the voltage can be calculated. If you have the voltage and the power you can calculate the maximum amps the wire should be able to take, and then lookup cable specs for their rating? This is perhaps too simplistic, as there are other factors like voltage drop. Cable cores can be made of different materials, and that will influence their performance as well, so an aluminium cable would have to be thicker than for example one made of copper. I never used my method in detail, but a rough calculation has been enough to determine if a ceble was suitable or not. I've always used the thickest cables that fit into the connectors. If you need to strip the copper itself in order to make it fit, your cable is too thick!
You would think it was just simple math. People chasing the audio dragon will spend insane amounts of money to convince themselves they can hear a difference. Thanks for watching!
@@skylabsaudio And thanks for your content and reply. One more question though: if it is true that the people you mention really have to convince themselves, wouldn't that be for other reasons than what they're hearing? I see mostly men from over 50 years old calling themselves audiophile, I doubt if they can hear frequencies above 15 kHz, just the frequency range that made music and audio "HiFi". Anyway, I do like your videos and your down-to-earth approach. Thank you!
@@skylabsaudio I'm in my late 40's and experiencing a roll-off at 15k as well, not even due to misuse, I assume it's called aging. And this audiophile thing must have something to do with having too much money in combination with an obsessive masculine urge to impress, which is fine, but let them just be honest about it and not pretend. Have a good day, sir!
@@basroos_snafu Remember, there are only 10 octaves from 20Hz - 20KHz and one of those (the last one) is from ~10KHz to 20KHz. So even if you can't hear above 15KHz, that's only about 1/2 to 1/4 of the last (top) octave. There's not a lot of "music" detail up that high anyways. Cymbals will have a shimmer but otherwise that range/octave is likely the least important (and our ears, even when young, aren't all that sensitive to that range anyways). It's an argument that I see often but in reality, not being able to hear all the way up to 20KHz does not mean that you can't be an "audiophile" due to age or lifestyle.
How ironic,. I just finished a major behind-the-cabinet clean-up. And ‘ya know what? ALL our speaker wires are as recommended by the manufacturer…LAMP CORD. I was considering an upgrade, but maybe now I’ll reconsider my considering,
I have owned hundreds of combinations of speakers and receivers. I will use whatever speaker cable is lying around, regardless of gauge. There Is absolutely, positively, not a single bit of difference between thick and thin cables. Period
I do not disagree with your sentiment here. Lets look at the numbers,... a brief look. -- Diameter of 18awg wire is about 0.04in. Skin depth at 20kHz is about 0.02in which brings the 18awg to look like 24awg at 20kHz. Depending on the length of the wire this WILL effect the high frequencies. 24AWG resistance ~24 millohms/ft, Imagine 15ft of interconnect => 0.36 ohms/channel Now if you are running 4ohm speakers that is about 10% of the voltage dropped across the cable at 20kHz,... OH NO! LIONS TIGERS AND AUDIO BEARS. {note I did ignore some wire cross section geometry considerations,...} To solve this: turn up the treble a tiny bit,... { Oh your Carver has no tone controls? Sorry about that. } -- The wire resistance will dissipate power across the audio band, but unless we are talking big time watts this only means you need to turn up the volume a bit. This is an argument for efficient speakers IMHO. -- Room acoustics will DOMINATE the sound before these wire considerations are important. Then your speakers and crossover topology will come to the party. Probably followed by your amp design. AND note the largest "problem" in audio is between your ears. -- I am not arguing for 18awg wire, personally I am comfortable with 14awg which has a big advantage with durability. Zip cord is fine and dandy. -- If you are really deep into a desire to understand these issues in depth, see sound-au.com/cable-z.htm I did not read the entire article, but it looks complete.
He pointed it out later in the video and explained that’s why you tape one of the plugs. Another person stated they use shrink tubing. I had wondered the same thing. Those two (or perhaps even 4) hanging next to one another are a recipe for disaster. I can’t understand why the sheaths aren’t made of plastic.
It's funny how much faith we have with the engineering inside the box (amp, receiver, speaker) and zero faith in the engineering between boxes. If large cable was necessary for the equipment, the engineers would have made the connectors larger and further apart. Just my 2 cents.
you've given some very bad advice as tinning wire is never recommended when using screw down terminals. solder compresses over time and loses the firm connection, requiring frequent tightening, eventually cracking the heat tempered wires inside the solder blob. a much better connection is made from properly cleaned and gently twisted bare strands. if you want to solder you must solder the bare wire end to an appropriate spade or pin or lug connector then screw down onto the connector itself or insert the pin of the connector to the speaker/amp connector.
I have 4 vintage pieces. I use the 2mm pin. In order to eliminate any chance of shorting, instead of tape, I use shrink tubing, red and black, right up to and slightly over the connection. Great video.
I purchased Monster cabal in the mid to late 70's I would have to say it has been around a while now. This is why Radio Shack was your friend.
Just as reference, 16 gauge wire is 4 ohms.....per 1000 feet. That said take a 10 foot piece of same equals 0.04 ohms. That intern is 0.005 out of 8 ohms or 0.5% of your load (speaker) value. Making that even easier to understand for a typical 100 Watt/channel amp we are looking at a loss of half of one watt dissipated within the speaker wire per side so a total of 1 watt loss in speaker wire. Because our ears work on a logarithmic scale no one can hear the difference between 100 and 99 watts. That explains why it is actually a great gauge to go with as when using stranded wire it is also usually easy to work with yet physically strong enough to not worry about. 14 Gauge (0.025 ohms/10')is the absolute largest I would ever use unless we are talking commercial installations with really long runs of speaker wire. Those are just the simple laws of a mister Georg Ohm and those laws don't change over time.
Good info I just stick with 14 gauge though maybe my wire length requires only 16.
Thanks Kevin, just like the way you dismiss the High End narrative with simple, straightforward solutions that doesn’t break the bank. Recently I went to a hi-fi emporium and the salesman showed me a massive power cable demonstration by swapping it out (Hegel amplifier) to hear the difference. Unfortunately my wife didn’t hear him tell me what to hear. She chose the regular anemic-looking cord, I laughed, then we left.
The late great Roger Russell of McIntosh recommended 18 gauge wire because he wanted a little bit of resistance between the amp and speakers. He has his own website that is awesome.
Also I lived 10 minutes away from parts express, amazing company!
Thank you for the video, all I needed to hear was McIntosh and Fischer, took me right to the correct spade connectors for my newly purchased Sansui 2000 with the dreaded screw speaker wire terminals. Man this Sansui sounds incredible.
Ive been using copper lamp cord for years and have never had a problem with sound.
Clearly we share a similar perspective on expensive speaker wire. I sold (almost literally) a ton of Monster Cable back in the late 70's and early 80's and crimped my share of connectors. As a college aged salesperson, I memorized all the talking points. My personal opinion was and still is, that Monster Cable (along with all the others) did as much or more to improve retailer profitability as it did to enhance the listening experience. The Kool-Aid was really flowing as they entered the inter-connect cable space. I currently use 16 ga, properly terminated speaker cables. I'm sure there are many who disagree with me, and to them I say "spend away".
Cable thin enough to generate heat would be a toaster, iron or hair dryer. Super thin cable is called a filament which gets you into incandescent light territory if enclosed in a bulb filled with special gas. Even a monster Pioneer SX-1980 would only need 14 gauge wire to power speakers. If you had a tower of speakers needed to host an A;ice Cooper concert you might need thicker speaker wire to power massive tower speakers. However for home listening 14 gauge copper wire will do just fine for home systems.
I tend to use medium gauge cables and banana plugs. They make a solid connection and don't move side to side so they short. Good video!
I knew I could count on you to answer my question. Thank you. @10:42
Kevin, this is very helpful information. I’m going to give those mini pens a try. That will save me lots of time of frustration. Thanks!!
I still use lampcord & it still works great
When I was in college (decades ago) I had friends who would buy a stereo and received 22 gauge wire with it. Upgrading to lamp cord was a no brainer. That's probably the most effective speaker wire upgrade.
Due to the dynamic range of music, and the fact that twice as loud requires 10 times the power, there is rarely an instance where your speaker wire is ever going to get warm from playing your music. There's a limited return on investment as you go up in size/down in gauge, as the ratio of the wire resistance to the speaker impedance drops quickly. How much having smaller strands of copper in your cable actually makes a noticeable difference in sound will likely be debated until the end of time. However, if I bought an exotic (expensive) speaker cable, you can bet that I could hear a difference, even if there was none.
Have used zip cord ( 14 or 12 gauge as copper was cheaper then) for passed 50 years and hasn't failed me yet. Banana plugs whenever I could, and always tinned cables regardless of connectors I needed to use as it made all those little copper strands into one solid wire. dual banana plugs are great to help keep things in phase when you can use them. Just found channel enjoy your videos!
The most fun I ever had in audio, was building cables. Speaker wire I went with GR research. Everything else pars express.
I'm kind of new to all this, and I'm glad this video popped up. I was never sure what to use and of course the " bigger is better" always comes into play. I always wondered about bigger speaker wire. I'm using regular speaker wire on my Adcom 555 amp to Polk speakers. Which use the banana style clips. I guess I will just keep on keeping on instead of buying into the bigger cable thing. Thanks
❤Kevin, your tech advice here is terrific! Generally, I like what you have to say about vintage gear.
I was considering upgrading to a non-vintage system, but I found your channel first - Lucky me!
I will continue to use my circa 1981 Mitsubishi DA15DC amp, DA-P20 preamp with a stacked set of 1978 Boston A100s. (Stacking is testing now)
Other components in my collection include Mitsubishi DA- P20, DA-M10, DA-F20 tuner, matching DP-EC1 turntable and two DA-M10 meters. I did modernize my streaming with a Schiit Modi3 usb DAC.
Somehow my original spool of clear-jacketed 14AWG copper lamp cord has never gotten misplaced.
Oh Yeah, 100’ of good cable does go along way😅in making a great sounding system sound its best.
Admittedly I should thin my herd somewhat.
Personally, I opt to get slight upgrades in wires as opposed to "audiophiles". World's Best Cables and the like. Just for a bit of durability. I bought my original system from a high-end place across from where I was a chef in the 90s. They sold stuff all the way up to the highest-end equipment. Wilson, Nordost, Dunleavy, etc. I spent a lot of time in their listening rooms and never heard a real difference between two 3-meter speaker cables that cost $90 versus the same that cost $5000. The guys who owned it were really cool and they didn't want to call out their big spenders but they told me there are plenty of areas where spending helps but cables wasn't one of them. I remember The Absolute Sound did a cable comparison about 25 or more years ago and they took a flyer on a hack using heavy-duty Home Depot extension cords as the speaker wire. They just clipped off the plugs, tapped off the nub of the ground wire, and attached spades. The damn things finished right in the middle of their comparison!
Maybe something that's useful to offer. I make binding post extensions for my clamp or screw type speaker/amp connections when I encounter them. I connect a short lead of heavy guage speaker wire (about 1.5") to a binding post soldered and covered with shrink wrap to install into these connectors, if the hole is too small for the speaker cable I use for this adapter I remove enough of the strands and tin them to fit for the open screw type I use spades and cover them up to the blades with shrink wrap. Sure they hang down a bit but this allows for the use of quality speaker cable in large guages and they can be reused for other amp/speaker applications. Works great! I usually include a set to a buyer of any of the vintage kit I sell as well, it's always appreciated.
Great job Kevin, love this channel!
I buy the 12 gauge pure copper in 300 foot spools from Monoprice. ..attach pins, bananas, or spades…works for my Vintage amps..and I love Parts express..great source for stuff.
Yep, $50 spool of OFC Monoprice 12ga copper here also. Get some pure copper endpieces, but none of this should cost very much.
The Cable Company made my speaker wires. Nice people to deal with and reasonably priced.
They will make custom lengths and let you choose the right connectors.
That’s what I just bought pure copper 12 gauge. The strands are thicker , made in USA 🇺🇸. I have been running it for 25 years on the same speakers and never had a problem ever. I always read it’s less taxing on the amplifier. Also it is very durable because it’s big and it just looks amazing when I look at it everyday draped neatly like snakes all over.
Chasing cheap tweaks I bought some 14gua, OFC, multistranded copper wire teamed with gold plated banana plugs. Nice sound, no regrets.
I’m going to give the pin type a try. My Pioneer SX 939 has the spring clips. It plays perfect for about 20 mins and then I get horrid static and death rattles. I’ve taken it for service twice and they tell me nothing is wrong with it. thanks for this suggestion. I hope it’s my problem.
Great vid. I ended up with pin to banana to go between my Paradigms to Sansui AU-717. Appreciate the advice.
I recently had a Kenwood KA-9100 repaired and the twist connectors were not tightening up properly so he replaced those connectors with dual twist or banana connector and using the banana plug adapters work great and much easier to work with. I use the banana plug adapters whenever I can
Thank you for a great video. It occurred to me, if you put a big shrinking sleeve to cover the handle of the banana plug that could be a good thing. Use the one without the glue here, so it is easier to open up again if you need to do the wires again. I am also in the same business. Have nice day everyone.
Great video! Two points:
1. Avoid over tightening old connections as plastic parts can break and screws can strip out.
2. Check connections frequently as wires tend to loosen up and oxidation can cause poor conductivity.
I am installing some spade to female banana plugs to the back of a few of my recievers and amps, just for convenience and actually to eliminate the chance of arking. Good video!
After dealing/suffering with heavier gauge wire and halfway functional spring clips on my main/daily vintage receiver, I went all in. Utilizing my nearly non-exisitent soldering "skills", I replaced the spring clips with 5 way binding posts. The finished product damn near looks like a factory install and I haven't looked back
Just came across your videos - really like your style of presentation and the info you present.
About speaker wire. I use 12 gauge stranded speaker wire - red and black pair. A 100 ft spool from Amazon is about 20 or so bucks. The biggest problem with running speaker wire is not running it in parallel with power cables closer than about 12 inches as they will pick up the 120V interference - hummmmm. I know that many audiophiles say that speaker wire thickness does not matter. But, I notice a big difference in base with the heavier wire. Maybe my imagination. But, just saying.....
I just saw a adaptor plate that replaces those 18 gauge spring clips
to banana connectors on my Marantz 2325 but just not sure what's involved to install the adaptor plate
I got to spend some time in the Klipsch factory demo/listening room, at the factory in Hope, with Roy Delgado and (at that time) beta Jubilee speakers...which are about $30K a pair...and all the other Heritage speakers. They had all these show pieces connected with plain THHN electrical wire...probably 12 AWG, if I remember right. If there had been a better-performing option they could, and would, have used it.
I met a Banging Olefson co-ed in college. I still have my heavier gauge lamp cord I bought for my 1978 system. I have some 25 year old Monster cable in there now. Had nicer banana plugs put in my JBL L65s when they were refurbished. What do you think about the flat- solid blade connectors for the vintage push button slots?
Sixteen Gauge wire is absolutely all that is needed for speaker wire. Larger gauges will normally not harm the sound but will not improve it either.
Most of my audio equipment is vintage and uses the screw terminals and My Marantz 3300 Preamplifier has the spring connectors to push in the wires.
This allows the output from the power amp to have a speaker selector switch and headphone jack on the preamp.
I also have a Dynaco stereo 120 and it has banana connectors with standard 3/4 inch centers to allow the use of dual banana plugs. Most speakers that have banana plugs do not use this spacing. The problem is that the 3/4 inch spacing is very close to the 2 centimeter spacing used in England and Europe for 220 volt electrical cords. The banana connectors are the best to use for speakers and most amps these days have these connectors. Many speakers still use the spring push in type though.
I’ve used 16 and 14 for a little while, it really depends on how far you want your speakers from your receiver
I've used a lot of zip cord over the years...really never had any issues that I could discern. Mostly just never wanted to pay for Monster Cable and could never really hear the difference it supposedly made in the sound. Thanks for the info on the angled connectors...I try and use bananas whenever possible, but those angled connectors would definitely be a little easier & neater than just wrapping wire around the connection posts.
Thanks for the reply, Jeff! Glad you aren't drinking the Coolaid, either!
Catching up on your videos since I joined this site. I love it, so informative. At 65 and owning stereo equipment since the mid 70's I was always told you couldn't go wrong with a 16 gauge speaker wire and at times 14 gauge. I always thought monster was the best cable and have never used banana plugs. Am I missing out here?
I think wire gauge on short runs isn’t a big issue in terms of audio quality.
It is probably better to use thicker speaker cable with high powered amplifiers and longer runs to loudspeakers.
Probably can’t go wrong following the amp’s instruction manual.
Lamp cord works as well as anything that costs hundreds of times as much ---
and leaves the owner with a lot of money that can be spent on music to play.
I have tried some affordable heavy - gauge speaker wire and found that 8 feet of # 12
sounds EXACTLY the same as 50 feet of #18. That is all the evidence I need.
When I was selling audio I never sold any more than 16 gauge wire 14 gauge for bigger hi wattage amps no more than that. never had a complaint.
instead of electrical tape use heat shrink, you can even color code the connectors with different color shrink. ie red is the right side speaker etc
You have techs and the equipment. Do a video and test different gauge wire & connectors . Put the speakers on the bench and compare the specs. If there is an audible difference there will also be measurable differences in a a bench test beyond obvious differences in ohms/resistance.
I have shopped at Parts Express and Monoprice. Both are excellent.
By changing to the modern binding posts! and with better sound as side benefit.
Hi! What's the preamp over the MC2105 in the background? C28 knobs on a c29? Just curious. And I approve if that's the case.
Good solder connection ever time
@Skylabs Audio: Would you ever consider changing the connector type on a receiver? I have Pioneer SX1080 and wonder if it would be an upgrade to use the spade connectors you showed here with heavy gage wire?
I laugh when I think of the snake-oil buying audiophiles connecting their 10 guage cables to screw down terminals and reducing the effective wire guage to a fraction of the cable. It's almost as funny as them freting over digital interconnect cables. I love your comments in the begining of the video.
Thanks!
There are people that claim they can "hear" the difference between $20 cables and $100 cables and $600 cables. I pushed a friend of mine who made such claims to do an A/B that I would set up for him and see if he can really tell the difference.
He failed. Miserably. I "switched" 4 times without actually making a change; I just muted and unmuted the system and he swore I had change cables. Then I would switch to a cheaper cable, then to a more expensive, then back, then just basic Home Depot spool speaker cable. His rate of success was about 32%.
This is true in almost all cases. I've never had access to $1200 cables or more, but for at least anything under a few hundred bucks, it's not worth an investment.
This also holds true for all of the wild power conditioners people use. If you don't have a buzz, they make no difference.
If speaker wire does not matter, regular old lamp cord should work just fine. No reason to invest any more.
Use 14 gauge with banana connections for modern receivers. 16 gauge for older hole in speakers connections.
Works.
You are right on the money, Bruno!
Can you use spades in vintage JBL push pin speaker terminals? Just have like one half of the spade inside that tiny hole
Watching your video on Sansui 20,000. One just came up it’s funny I was just watching it an hour ago for thousand dollars. Needs work great shape. I know I should grab it but
With the spring push connectors, I wouldn't use a pin connector. The surface area that makes the connection is so very small, just top and bottom of a very small pin. I'd use bare stranded wire that will be somewhat smashed down making much more surface contact. If the wire is too big, then cut a few strands back up the end and solder those all together to leave a stranded portion for the spring connector to bite down on.
Sounds logical. Thanks!
this is the correct way. properly cleaned and stranded wire is exactly what spring connectors are designed to make a solid connection with. screw downs get rings or spades soldered to the bare wire and connectors designed for pins get pins soldered to the bare wire. most importantly you have clarified if one ever removes strands from a cable end there should be a dab of solder flowed back into the cable where the cut off strands can mate via solder with their neighbors
Great channel, insights, subbed.
Thank you, David!
Hi! Thanks for the video, it is very informative, and actually it helps with my problem - i will need a pin connector with my Harman Kardon 730. BUT you are missing DIN connection, which was popular on European amps, and it was not something unique what just B&O used.
Most of my speaker wire sets I've made myself, from 100% copper 12-14-16ga wire (Amazon), in various lengths, with quality banana plugs on both ends. I'm a big fan of the banana to spade, or banana to pin adapters. Also, just curious, what do you think of right angle plugs to relieve stress behind gear?
Great info and explanations. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Love your videos! Thanks so much.
Heavy David Foster Wallace vibe from this guy
I've been dealing with this problem for years, I figured out to use black heat shrink wrap on the negative wire banana plugs, 'just leave the screw on cover off' cause the tape would come loose, an make a sticky mess
Good information. Thanks!
The purpose of speaker wire is to send the signal to the speaker, so buying uber expensive cables simply doesn't make much sense. I do have a question about the quality of the wire being used, but even then, going north of $50 for, just an example, 6 ft speaker cables is a case study for diminishing returns, IMO.
I've always just bought Monster Cables, and I've never had an issue with those. My old man bought them, he's not exactly who you'd call an audiophile but he does appreciate a good clean signal for his Klipsch Fortes, and I never heard him complain.
And I'm writing this after having read the comment above about selling tons of Monster Cables 😅. But consider the time period, as well. This all began during the mid 80's. Prior to that, we had an old Realistic sound system, and that system didn't have expensive wires and still sounded alright, although it was rather long in the tooth...
He bought ithe spools for the convenience, rather than going the DIY route. He simply didn't have the time to do it himself. He still had to terminate them, but it was the better choice for him.
Where I come in at is, I noticed how dark and brittle the wires were for the older system we had, compare to the Monsters he bought. And that moment made me think about the quality of said wire of the cables.
I was about 10-11yrs old at the time, so call me impressionable. Those Monster Cables looked far better than those old plain brown cables that the older system had. I knew I wanted my own sound system someday, and these things stuck with me.
Would those older wires still work? Sure....maybe? But could you depend on them years later, being as cheap and brittle as they seemed to be? So, regardless of expense, I do think quality of the wire matters more than the guage used. But I don't think the quality is going to supercede similarly spec'd wires from another source.
BTW, my dad's original Monster Cables are still doing their thing, and he took my Monsters along with my Bose 401's, which were roughly 15 years newer than his 401's (told you he wasn't exactly an audiophile...). There's nothing wrong or shameful with buying Monster Cables in this time and era. I still use them today, and if anyone dares to question me about them, I just turn my Carver/Klipsch system and let them figure it out.
Im beginning to wonder if this is a pointless exorcise as you could use the heaviest gauge wire possible but it still connects to terminals on the amp which in turn are fed by tiny thin wires from a circuit board, its like turning on a garden hose into a 6" pipe your still only going to get the same amount flowing out the end.
Great review Kevin! - Quick question; I have 14 gauge copper cables connected to my vintage Sansui receiver spring terminals (to my Klipsch Heresy III's), playing very well. I wanted to connect 12 gauge OFC copper cables to it only because I have the extra cable for it for another system I plan on buying. Bottom line, they are too big for the connector (as you stated) and would require the Silverback pin connectors to make it happen. Would there be any noticeable improvement in sound quality with the 12 gauge via Silverback, plus the added risk of them being so close together - or should I just leave well enough alone?? Thanks again
Instead of electrical tape, shrink wrap from Home Depot would be a good option. Would look neater and you could use red and black for polarity
Yep, that's what I do, heat shrink tubing.
These Nakamichi banana connector aluminium outer tubes are actually conductive! Use insulating tape, or like I do - transparent soft plastic tube on top - that looks much better than the thbe and does not leave that sticky residue.
Great video!
Jim Fosgate who was a good personal friend of my father-in-law once told me to buy a roll of good quality lamp cord. He said the difference between that and higher quality speaker cable is hardly noticeable.
"Hardly noticeable" is still "noticeable" (for some). These expensive cable manufacturers are doing something right, or they would not still be around for going on 40 years. They can't be all "marketing and snake oil" and still be in business 40 years later.
Here's my suggestion for an experiment. Buy some 18 gauge high grade lamp cord and 14 gauge.
Cut a 1ft length of 18 gauge and 14 gauge.
Connect your speaker to your amp 1 ft both sides, then pump a mono signal into each speaker.
I'll take a gander you won't hear a difference.
Then cut two twenty ft. length of wire, one 18 gauge the other 14 gauge. Put both speakers twenty feet from the amp and the 18 gauge channel will sound mushy and the tweeter will sound weak.
It's copper, distance and gauge to match the distance, volume and speaker efficiency.
Electro Voice has application tables, I believe.
Expensive speaker cable is snake oil in my opinion, IT'S THE GAUGE THAT MATTERS NOT SILVER!
Sound reinforcement guys use 12 or 10 gauge I think, correct me if I'm wrong.
What if you splice cables to create composite connections eg to an amp or speaker switch box accepting different connectors than what extends to the amp or speaker?
The only thing my amp manual says about speaker cables "It is very important to use speaker cables of the
correct diameter in order to reduce power loss". My speakers, rated 4ohm 900w, manual reads "Use the appropriate gauge of wire. A minimum of 18 gauge is recommended for up to 25 feet". I use heavy (10ga), good quality speaker cables because they sound better to me.
Solder a pin of your choice to the heavy gauge wire. Done it several times. Belden brand copper wire is a little cheaper than thick audio wire. Although all copper wire is outrageous. I use 10 ga.
I've done the tests ... Just as a car does not get easier to tow if you use a bigger chain, once you have wire that is able to carry the current bigger wires bring absolutely no benefit.
I've used 16ga lamp cord for years... never a problem.
Hello folks. I always tin the wire because I can turn in into a spade lug or pin using solder that is made for electronic products 4% silver added. Not the plumber kind.
Now nice fat wire I trim the end down for it will fit.
Then I'm still crazy by thinking on my own or remembering someone else idea.
Ride Easy
you should research "tinning wire with screw down connections" then stop doing this.
also trimming down the end of a wire, IE removing individual strands of copper wire from the bundle, does exactly what is sounds like it does, it makes your low gauged wire into higher gauged wire and if enough wire is removed from one end could cause resistance and heat issues at the connection.
I run 12 gauge on my Cerwin Vega Re-38 speakers
I use Monster 14 ga & I make connectors out of banana plugs so they fit push terminals - why oh why didn't someone get the bright idea about 5 way binding posts for receivers & amps earlier?
Seems weird it took so long doesn't it.
Five way binding posts cost more and are more prone to damage in shipment unless they are recessed into the amp.
What are the "five ways" these posts support. You can wrap bare wire around them, you can feed the wire through the hole in the middle of the post and twist the post tight, you can use a proper spade lug and twist it down, you can insert a standard banana connecter into the top of the terminal. What is the fifth way?
@@swinde the 5th way is sticking a pin connector through the hole on the post that would normally accept bare wire. seriously lol
If you must have bigger audio jewelry/wire try a clamp on y connector soldered and cutting one of legs. The pin is safe with quality electrical tape/vinyl tape. Ironic vinyl tape for vinyl playback.
Cable thickness playing a role in speaker sound fidelity or system functionality is a sales gimmick. Electrons are purpose built to flow through copper wire. Does size \ Wire Gauge matter? Yes but only to a VERY limited degree. Thicker copper wire makes electron flow to your speakers easier. Electrons encounter less resistance when flowing through thicker copper wire. Less resistance to electron flow equals less energy wasted as heat and more electrons reaching your speakers. This equation is valid only to a point. Once electron flow generates no detectable heat you've achieved optimal electron flow. 14 gauge copper wire is thick enough to allow optimal electron flow. Anything more is overkill. Electrons don't care about fancy cables or labels.
For real! I laugh at these idiots who spend thousands on speaker wire. Some people can’t resist the snake oil. I use crutchfields standard 10awg speaker wire and even that is probably overkill but I like the way it looks over standard off the shelf speaker wire and it’s relatively inexpensive to buy.
lol the argument makes me laugh and irritated at the same time. Personal I think to some degree both are correct. I say that because I'm pretty certain that it hasn't been as far back as the 70's through the 80's Audio gear was designed and built with the available Resistor's, Capacitors, and Transformers etc. They were designed with the limitations of those components and what was then known about electrical energy moved within. I remember it was early to mid 90's when I read an article on how electricity flows through wire. I assume up till then give the articles premise that the current flowed through the wire. It does not. It flows along the surface and along with the upgrading of internal parts and refined circuit designs the idea of larger cables came into being. Danny Richie of GR Research has done measurements showing, if I remember correctly, frequency response differences and put out criteria on not just cables but isolation from grounding against ground loop interference as I understand it. It makes since, but I have listened to his recordings of it either as I think he made spec recordings that are downloadable for comparison. However, the biggest caveats from him and several other reviewers was it's really your choice if you are satisfied with your synergy no worries, but if there is something bothering you that you can't put a finger on it could be cables. Some people use to argue that speaker isolators were shake oil as well and that burn in wasn't a thing either. One thing that few have touched on that I came to understand long ago is very few if anyone hears the same way when listening ear canals very and as such so does what we hear and perceive. This part of why there are so many different speaker designs and mfg. I am fairly certain most, but not all vintage has certain characteristics that are similar just as much as they have reflected by specific brands certain styles, quirks, and or characteristics Silver Face, Black Face, Meters no Meters, green lights blue lights, Tube like sound and so on. We know today certain abilities of given Amp Designs give certain specific characteristics and matching is as much luck as it is intuitive. In the End it's your choice and what you seek. Thanks for the info on this subject and the adding of a Sub to Vintage receivers.
An example of discovery and synergy is a recent vlog post by Thomas and Stereo. Who has been an Audiophile for at least 30 yrs and who stopped critical listening in favor of good enough and almost entirely devoid of talking down mfg and price in favor of performance and quality. He also does testing against by allowing his contemporaries of whom he has 7 or 8 Audiophile buddies with various systems they have acquired to review what he give them against their acceptable equipment not just his. Their systems, including his, run in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. At any rate he for years has tried to like Single Driver speakers like The Dirty Weekend by Zeus and or the Pearl Audio Speakers by Paul Lovegood. He hadn't succeeded till recently. He never got it till in a fluke he stopped trying to drive them with his various high powered digital or Tube Amps. Instead he put them to his tests with a 6 Watt Class A Tube Amp and was blown out by their presentation of his musical tastes. He said...Now he gets it. He reasoned though can't verify that high current amps were essentially overloading the voice coils on speaker materials creating a sound he couldn't stand but now with the useable and lower powered class A Tube amp or even a 15 watt receiver anyone like him love the single driver concentric speakers so many were Gaga over and find sonic Nirvana!
"Skin effect" has little application at audio frequencies.
In the late 1990s, when I worked for The Good Guys, an audio video retailer on the west coast, they sent us to training. The trainer said that banana plugs are junk. The curved contacts, hence the name banana, ride around a central pin, and the contact occurs only at two very tiny points at the top and bottom of the banana portion. The banana portion spins around the center pin with only loose friction. He said it's a horrible design, with inherent poor contact and potential for corrosion and loose connections at these tiny points.
the trainer was exceptionally misleading. in a properly designed and manufactured banana plug made from gold/rhodium plated spring steel there are zero possibilities of this happening and in fact the opposite occurs, the banana ring compresses around the pin and forms a tight and secure physical connection. he is 100% correct about cheap connectors but to claim such a blanket statement is a huge red flag and his other advice should be questioned. the fact someone's job means they should know what they are saying rarely makes it true.
gawd I hated those ' easy to use' snap lever connects. max maybe 18 ga... etc. I'd 1000 times more have simple screw / spade lugs even the tiny at the time versions. ( I'm 73 ) On the other hand I've also had a couple versions of modern banana plugs in which the plugs actually come apart > the wire connect part seperates from the plug part. just press fit cheap. I used the same 14 ga wire set for like 25 years, zero issues but it was lookin grungy so I switched, 10 ga 'pure copper' actual I still would call it ' zip cord'. given less than 20 ft 'normal ' lengths I just don't think I'd ever reliably note a difference. $ 500. a foot stuff , not my cup of tea, not even close. like your shows, a lot.
Thank you, Rick!
Isn't is just a matter of math? You have your maximum power and resistance (speaker + cable), so the voltage can be calculated. If you have the voltage and the power you can calculate the maximum amps the wire should be able to take, and then lookup cable specs for their rating? This is perhaps too simplistic, as there are other factors like voltage drop. Cable cores can be made of different materials, and that will influence their performance as well, so an aluminium cable would have to be thicker than for example one made of copper. I never used my method in detail, but a rough calculation has been enough to determine if a ceble was suitable or not. I've always used the thickest cables that fit into the connectors. If you need to strip the copper itself in order to make it fit, your cable is too thick!
You would think it was just simple math. People chasing the audio dragon will spend insane amounts of money to convince themselves they can hear a difference. Thanks for watching!
@@skylabsaudio And thanks for your content and reply. One more question though: if it is true that the people you mention really have to convince themselves, wouldn't that be for other reasons than what they're hearing? I see mostly men from over 50 years old calling themselves audiophile, I doubt if they can hear frequencies above 15 kHz, just the frequency range that made music and audio "HiFi". Anyway, I do like your videos and your down-to-earth approach. Thank you!
I agree. I can't hear over 15k. Too many loud concerts and life. :)
I think it's a placebo effect, don't you?
@@skylabsaudio I'm in my late 40's and experiencing a roll-off at 15k as well, not even due to misuse, I assume it's called aging. And this audiophile thing must have something to do with having too much money in combination with an obsessive masculine urge to impress, which is fine, but let them just be honest about it and not pretend. Have a good day, sir!
@@basroos_snafu Remember, there are only 10 octaves from 20Hz - 20KHz and one of those (the last one) is from ~10KHz to 20KHz. So even if you can't hear above 15KHz, that's only about 1/2 to 1/4 of the last (top) octave. There's not a lot of "music" detail up that high anyways. Cymbals will have a shimmer but otherwise that range/octave is likely the least important (and our ears, even when young, aren't all that sensitive to that range anyways).
It's an argument that I see often but in reality, not being able to hear all the way up to 20KHz does not mean that you can't be an "audiophile" due to age or lifestyle.
How ironic,. I just finished a major behind-the-cabinet clean-up. And ‘ya know what? ALL our speaker wires are as recommended by the manufacturer…LAMP CORD. I was considering an upgrade, but maybe now I’ll reconsider my considering,
👍700
"If I vacuum" I see what you did there...
Let the triggered emerge-
Have you ever worried about running a 100 watt lightbulb on lamp cord wire? The amp & speakers don’t care either.
I have owned hundreds of combinations of speakers and receivers. I will use whatever speaker cable is lying around, regardless of gauge. There Is absolutely, positively, not a single bit of difference between thick and thin cables. Period
I do not disagree with your sentiment here. Lets look at the numbers,... a brief look.
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Diameter of 18awg wire is about 0.04in.
Skin depth at 20kHz is about 0.02in which brings the 18awg to look like 24awg at 20kHz.
Depending on the length of the wire this WILL effect the high frequencies.
24AWG resistance ~24 millohms/ft, Imagine 15ft of interconnect => 0.36 ohms/channel
Now if you are running 4ohm speakers that is about 10% of the voltage dropped across the cable at 20kHz,... OH NO! LIONS TIGERS AND AUDIO BEARS.
{note I did ignore some wire cross section geometry considerations,...}
To solve this: turn up the treble a tiny bit,...
{ Oh your Carver has no tone controls? Sorry about that. }
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The wire resistance will dissipate power across the audio band, but unless we are talking big time watts this only means you need to turn up the volume a bit.
This is an argument for efficient speakers IMHO.
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Room acoustics will DOMINATE the sound before these wire considerations are important.
Then your speakers and crossover topology will come to the party.
Probably followed by your amp design.
AND note the largest "problem" in audio is between your ears.
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I am not arguing for 18awg wire, personally I am comfortable with 14awg which has a big advantage with durability. Zip cord is fine and dandy.
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If you are really deep into a desire to understand these issues in depth,
see sound-au.com/cable-z.htm
I did not read the entire article, but it looks complete.
Instead of soldering the bare wires, I use a couple drops of super-glue.
thank you for the suggestion! will try.
You have to be kidding.
Kind of like guitar cables dont overspend
7:32 a short circuit disaster waiting to happen! BAD ADVICE!!!
He pointed it out later in the video and explained that’s why you tape one of the plugs. Another person stated they use shrink tubing. I had wondered the same thing. Those two (or perhaps even 4) hanging next to one another are a recipe for disaster. I can’t understand why the sheaths aren’t made of plastic.
It's funny how much faith we have with the engineering inside the box (amp, receiver, speaker) and zero faith in the engineering between boxes. If large cable was necessary for the equipment, the engineers would have made the connectors larger and further apart.
Just my 2 cents.
you've given some very bad advice as tinning wire is never recommended when using screw down terminals. solder compresses over time and loses the firm connection, requiring frequent tightening, eventually cracking the heat tempered wires inside the solder blob. a much better connection is made from properly cleaned and gently twisted bare strands. if you want to solder you must solder the bare wire end to an appropriate spade or pin or lug connector then screw down onto the connector itself or insert the pin of the connector to the speaker/amp connector.
If your using lamp cord , you have never actually heard those B&W’s behind you. Not even close
Only idiots buy expensive cables…period
Skin effect. Save your money.
Why show people how to waste money?
lol- better than people destroying amplifiers due to shorts from braids of wire touching
@@skylabsaudio wire shorting has nothing to do with wire type/gauge.
@@leo.girardi
Try connecting a 10 gauge stranded wire to a number 6 screw terminal. You won't be able to get even half of these wires under the screw.
@@swinde Exactly. You must have missed my point.
@@swinde Then cut them down. It's not a tough problem.