Again...I love this approach you take of reading the passage and discussing it. We can all follow along in our own books.And the citation is right there!
Wow! Someone who actually went to school and read books and what a bookshelf that is! An oldster now, I sure do appreciate channels like this that aren't just armchair cod philosophizing and "reacting" but are actually educational and bringing actual scholars down to a popular level for us. You have a new subscriber!
@krunkle5136 It's worse than conservative elitist paternalism. It's a spiteful power play driven by insecurity and a desire to maintain the appearance of social status. In America, the current economic hierarchy has been portrayed as a reflection of moral virtue while deliberately obscuring historical reasons why it isn't true. Since discovering that my extended family was becoming explicitly white supremacist in their politics, I studied the specific history of my family's property accumilation through 5 generations. It's clear that they not only benefited from systemic racism, but also anti-communist foreign policy that directly favoured the family business. Raising these issues with them leads to denial because they view themselves as radical individualist libertarian-ish Republicans. The ideology leads to reactionary political movements out of a threat to their collective self-image.
One thing I'd emphasize is that neoliberalism may actually be somewhat "less authoritarian, but further right" than classical fascism. Comparing Constants and Variables between Mussolini and Pinochet is a prime example. The original Fascists did hold a kind of cautionary skepticism towards unbridled capitalism, classical liberalism, and unchecked class conflict, whereas neoliberals were a bit more reckless with privatization and shock therapy. Francoist Spain actually held off until nearly the 1950s to loosen the supervisory reigns of the state to free market policy.
@@Canadoslovakia1 That might actually be correct. Classical fascism refused either socialism or capitalism, desiring a third solution, whereas neoliberalism is brazenly capitalistic. It’s less overtly authoritarian but more economically right.
Dude 3rd position is right wing propaganda, doesnt exist. Fascism is social darwinism, which is the same as unfettered capitalism as seen under classical fascism like the industrialists in Nazi Germany.
Nobody has to be "duped" into anything. Fascism is simply the most capable system of delivering what people want. There's no reason to wrap it up in any abstraction.
@@modernmyth9050 It’s not an abstraction. The point of the video is that fascism is part of a socio-political system that manufactures certain desires and that is the reason it is so successful: because it can then fulfill those manufactured desires.
@@modernmyth9050This is the justification that fascism gives for the desires that it itself creates. But But I also think that the term create is not accurate. Fascism appropriates notions of reality and pre-existing norms and organizes them in such a way that society projects itself towards fascism. It's still a very Deleuzian analysis, just a little more elaborate Only a fasci does not recognize that his desires and fantasies were provoked by something or someone. The fascist citizen is not innocent of his own desires but he also does not have total control over them..
Id love to hear more of your thoughts on fascism, itself. Im to the point where i think most of western civilization is fascist, even those clinging to liberalism. I can definitely see how manifestation of desire arationally precludes fascism, but anything short of addressing the material conditions you allude to seems to leave the problem itself unaddressed.
Yeah I think it’s probably just the death pangs of late stage capitalism. It’s an attempt for a dying system to correct itself by reinvigorating the socius with institution-oriented, conservative tendencies to protect the state and capital. You’re right that without addressing material conditions, nothing will change. Micro-fascisms are definitely one of D&G’s concepts id like to produce more content on.
Here is my take. There are compulsive liars. But there also compulsive believers. Both groups are more concerned with the movies playing in their heads and seeing themselves as the hero of all outcomes....than the usual person does....a baseline. Religious? Compulsive in belief by nature. Fascist? Same thing. Compulsive in belief. It's about this heroes journey that sociopaths, compulsive believers, narcissists, and other people who would rather have the fantasy than examine reality.....who gravitate towards loving fascism. They see themselves as winning every fight, and do a lot of per-emptive fantasizing and fetishizing of violence. Also, there are a lot of justifications that have to be inserted in there....and critical thinking dispels their fun. Thinking takes work. Fantasizing is easy.
True enough! I think we can see this fantasy in play in the manosphere right now where a defensive and toxic notion of masculinity is put forth as a pipeline to alt-right spaces, especially online. Chronically online young men sit and fester in feelings of inadequacy and perceived ostricization and alt-right demagogues in the Daily Wire, Prager U, etc take advantage of these males’ vulnerability for profit and political gains.
Populism is exactly the question of why do the people desire servitude? Populism started the French Revolution and populism is the basis of all revolutionary movements that aren't elitist vanguards... Indeed Deleuze and Guattari are looking into how to undo fascism's appropriation of populism.
Excellent lecture. I really encourage you to reinvest in this video/topic with added production value (editing, script revising, etc) because i think you've done a great job here and I think the reach could be extended. I was really interested in the notion that you mentioned of people desiring thier own humiliation. Maybe i missed it but it didnt feel like you really resolved that idea. Lastly, obvously you're a very academic, but you've inspired me to try and translate this into an artifact at a more consumable layer of the semantic stack, synthesizing this with hannah arandt and Gromsci.
@@samuelosinaike2254 Thanks so much for your donation Samuel! I certainly intend to continue working on these ideas and subjects. You brought up a really interesting point here regarding desiring one’s own *humiliation*, which is subtly different from desiring one’s oppression; to desire one’s humiliation is to revel in feeling debased, dominated, controlled, etc, and as theorists interested in masochism, this connection would make sense. I see something there now that you’ve brought it to my attention!
He's fine just as he is. Just the straight dope. No irritating music, rapid editing or idiotic visuals we've seen over and over. I for one have had enough of these tarted-up 'lectures' presented with the phony AI generated posh-Brit voice-overs.
Very interesting lecture thank you, coming from Psychoanalysis I can’t help but emphasize the deeper meanings into the Oedipus complex than what Deuleuze suggests here, especially with how much psychoanalysis evolved since Freud, I suggest Winnicot and also Melanie Klein, the drive which is the energy behind desire is a complex but very important aspect of how desiring something and its opposite are linked in intriguing ways
Another amazing video with great explanations. I have nothing to add here, but I want to comment to help boost engagement. So in the next comments I'll be commenting nonsense, but it's just to help boost engagement, because I think the message in this video is urgent. Thanks againg for another great reflection.
Another aspect worth discussing in this topic is the desire of people who didn’t vote for Trump directly but whose everyday desires are part of the socio-desiring machine of fascism. This includes the desire for power that manifests in society-through class, workplace positions, or personal ambitions, for example. These desires drive people to support the capitalist machine in which they are themselves exploited. I believe we cannot reduce the desire for fascism in the capitalist state solely to elections, such as voting for Trump, especially when the opponent is another manifestation of fascism in the big picture. I’m seeing these desires for fascism reflected in my workplace, even though no one there has voted for Trump.
@@nomadsdrifts You’re right! The socius is laden with microfascisms and manufactured consent such that elections are only one manifestation and appearance of fascistic impulses!
@@gavinyoung-philosophy It is almost the opposite approach to D&G, since it does try to reduce the problem to a somewhat simplified concept. But they do it in such a brilliant way that it seems to match almost perfectly with the way things appear. Maybe it is just my mind playing tricks, but you can see the things they are describing play out currently in social media.
I think that, absent of any particular theories, or even a really rigorous definition of fascism, one good way of explaining the appeal of authoritarianism in general including leftist authoritarianism like state communism and the spiritual core of revolutionary anarchism in the propaganda by the deed era (Marx said the state would wither, we'd be all good) is that it promises finality. A complete, stable, *finished* state, which is restful in times of political strife. Someone else will do your thinking for you, everything will be ok, just do your job and be patient. Liberal Democracy is chaotic and eternally unfinished, it doesn't offer absolutes - and this is true whether it's a robust, well constructed "real" democracy, or a flawed hodgepodge. It's stressful; it's work. Honest proponents of it do not claim there will be a final, complete, restful state, only constant balancing, and compromise that never satisfies everyone. Leftist critics of liberal democracy will also point out that these compromises break down along all these unfair lines that replicate all these existing hierarchies and that power structures just occupy that framework pretty comfortably and mold it into their own preferred shape, and lots of them are so disgusted - both genuinely and performatively - with liberalism that they're not all that interested in defending it, even when and if their own realpolitik is sometimes just euro style soc dem. I increasingly find the "I hate liberals too, Mr. Online Conservative, but because they don't go far enough, not because they go too far" shibboleth irritating. I think it's tied up in identity and social positioning and kind of useless.
@@asafoetidajones8181 You hit the nail on the head here. Deleuze and Guattari’s point about capitalism is very similar to this: whereas classical models of state authority were grounded in the person of the benevolent king, the strong dictator, the trusted aristocracy, etc, contemporary forms of authoritarianism depend upon the permanent state of instability permeating economies and societies. By using the momentum of this constant destabilizing effect caused by deterritorialization of markets and goods, strategic relations of exchange are established based on neoliberal notions of free markets protected by the state. The state thus becomes not a promised end model, but a temporary fix for a problem of the system’s own making. Not sure what is meant by the last of your paragraphs, but good stuff prior!
Great video! I’m not sure if you attend(ed) UAH, but if you did… I am glad that I ran into your channel. I attended undergrad at ASU in Montgomery. I love to support like minded individuals in my home state. I have liked and subscribed !!
Excellent discussion btw...I need to read Anti-Oedipus. The real truth is nobody, or very very few, wants to have sex with their mother or kill their father, how Freud became gospel for many years is rather mind boggling. I got stuck on Freud for a while thinking it might help me resolve my problems, and it made me more neurotic, but I was just going on his intellectual reputation. Thank you for the lecture!
Thanks! Great point. I was just thinking while editing this video how crazy it is that the Oedipus complex somehow became a standard, straight-faced position taken by scholars and practitioners. Super interesting to hear about your journey with Freud!
Interesting. I was introduced to him through psychology and I honestly laughed out loud when I read about the oedipus complex in my textbook. Maybe people took it seriously because like you said they were going off of his intellectual reputation? It would be interesting to read about what people outside of academia thought about it at the time. Bc personally I think I would’ve had the same reaction 😂 but who really knows. If im not mistaken, he knew homosexuality was natural and that there was nothing inherently wrong with it so that’s based.
@@ModernConversations Thank you! Feel free to shoot me an email via the email in my channel description if you’d just like to chat philosophy over zoom. No need to pay via channel membership
Amazing stuff !! as someone who is just getting introduced to D&G's ouevre. I started with presenting "Everybody wants to be a fascist" in my philosophy reading group, which i though was the text you would discuss. Out of curiosity however, are you familiar with the work of Francois Laruelle?
@@jhandu_jogi Thank you! I am not familiar with him. Sounds fun to use D&G in a class. I’ve yet to have a class even tangentially related to postmodernism.
Speaking of Freud; his follower Carl Jung developed the most common theory of personality types whereby everyone fits somewhere on either side of the dichotomies Introverted/Extroverted, Intuitive/Sensing, Thinking/Feeling, and Concrete/Abstract. Out of these types, those which typically are or desire to follow genuinely democratic leaders are all Intuitive, which is the overwhelmingly rarer primary perception mode, and Feeling, which is typically assigned as the “female” judging mode. Of course the latter part doesn’t matter so much when people are overwhelmingly comfortable being shown or told what to do, if not oppressed into doing any given thing.
Speaking of the psychoanalysis of fascism, are you familiar with Eric Fromm's "Escape From Freedom"? I think it's an excellent book that gets to the heart of these ideas in a way that's much more accessible to non-philosophers.
@@dillegitante That’s indeed what they imply and explicitly specify in other passages! Desire is not a monolith, but an intermingling series of flows forming some practicable tool
True _to an extent_ but that incumbent beat the tar out of Trump in 2020 because everyone saw how incompetent and corrupt Trump was - if you can forget that in just 4 years, or you're a young _adult_ and can't be bothered to look at what happened just 4-8 years before _with the same politician and party_ then there _is_ something wrong with you.
@gavinyoung-philosophy you get it at a young age. Im 31 and was much dumber than you at 20. Keep up the good work, we need your insight more than ever.
As portrayed here, fascism is something that requires for its inception, a period during which its polar opposite is made to confront people and to deny their desires. In short, those who have an interest in the avoidance of fascism's further excesses, would be best advised to resist moves by political figures whose operation is clearly, even increasingly viewed by the public as working against the interest of the majority. The enthusiasm for Trump was eventually outweighed by the exasperation with, turning to fear of, Kamala.
I thought that, first time round, voting against their own interest. This time I don't see it. I see total Democratic failure to convince. And more and more authoritarianism rising, and not least, a zealous supplying of genocide.The affluent Democrat surely was voting in their own interest, a dubious virtue, ("Ask not what your country can do for you..." still refreshes,) but if it is the imperative you seek, we failed to convince Trump's voters that we would create policy in their interest. Simple. Assuming they were just too stupid or in the grip of a dubious complex is just snobbery. Elitism, the antonym of populism, is the killer!
The anciet philosophers do not think that "society was created so we can follow our desire, that cannot be followed by an individual person". That is completely wrong.
@@jozan9 So that we can fulfill needs which individually we could not, yes, this is what Plato, Aristotle, and Cicero at the least all say. I believe I correct myself from desire to need in the video.
It seems a bit one-sided, as if to say the dispositions people develop are purely individual, and have no contextual antecedents, which clearly misses a great part of the equation, the manufacture of desire.
@@abody499 Far from it! Deleuze and Guattari are chief among thinkers who favor a contextualized, social, and economic understanding of the production of desire! The whole reason one can even desire one’s own oppression is because to be is to be among many and to have one’s actions and values mediated by one’s relations to others. As such, social antecedents are the precondition for any individual’s existence and ability to manifest their desires.
14:00 "all we can see is... ...through... that tells us what it is" Your grammar sucks and only makes you sound smart to people who can't track the subject.
Your argument is based on assumption that people were voting for Trump rather than people voting against the corporate fascism of the neoliberal party. Same argument can be applied to Harris voters
Words mean less and less as people overuse them as weapons and in so doing diminish the weight of words… “Fascist ”, “Racist”, ect… these terms mean less and less as folks get inundated with them.
I wish this was true but slurs only seem to gain power as used more and more. I'm honestly of the belief that we are being told that words lose power as used more because people don't like being called a racist or a fascist even if they are one.
@ This maybe true… No one really knows what is in the soul of another… and everyone wears a mask or three in public, it is the way of the human in a social structure, the more complicated the social structure the more intricate the mask. However, I do reiterate and using the “facsist” attack, putting forth that half the electorate is facsist because they voted for a guy the other half despises to their core being is a folly on such a grand scale, as the recent overwhelming and historic political comeback of a man who was consistently and consistently likened to Hitler has proven clearly.🤷
Rereading that, it is a bit jumbled, in my defense my dog Brix is trying to get in my lap as I attempt to write… very distracting he is. 110lbs Cane Corsos are Not Lap Dogs
@@Robertlynschultz or maybe many people who use words like fascist and racist just view the words as objective morally neutral descriptors rather than insults. Maybe it’s the fault of those receiving the accusation that the word has no meaning. Maybe the way people are educated on racism is partly to blame too. These words have colloquial and formal definitions and uses, just like most words do. Yet when these particular words are used to describe people’s actions and behavior, they are dismissed as “having no meaning”. To say this hasn’t always been the case is wrong. The tactics of racist politicians are well known. They don’t say n** anymore. Instead they use abstract language like “forced busing, states’ rights”, and Dei hire. So who here is making the word racism meaningless? The people who intentionally obscure their intentions with abstract language, or the people who are able to accurately identify it? There is a criteria for fascism. And the president elect and his friends fulfill those criteria. Demanding conformity, appeal to tradition, emphasis on the nuclear family, the boogeymen who seek to destroy the nuclear family and its way of life, the ultranationalism, a charismatic leader. The requirements are easily met.
National Socialists... I think the next Nazis would label undesirables as "Nazis" due to grandiosity and fear. Your discourse and the discourse on this video cleaves through the problem, and both halves lay open for analysis. This fascism lays on a different plane, that of the internet and the resulting super-ego effects. Who is controlling more? Who is suffering? I dont think deportations for instance are similar to what happened with the Jewish population, it's just part of growing as a country. Think of how hard it is to pack up and live in Paris. Trump even offered the union of USA and Mexico during these deportations. These problems could be analysed, I just think people are reluctant to. I don't know. I'm still learning. But I saw something really wrong with this recent election and I thought Trump was a progressive, and not like Hitler. Making a country good is the job of a president. No duh.
Man... There is so many things wrong in this video, and I only watched 5 min of it. I think I should do a refutation video instead of commenting every single time.
You philosophical reading and understanding seems fairly accurate and thorough, but it kinda surprises me that you identify fascism with Trump so easily. From a European perspective at least, it seems quite wrong to associate Trump with fascism, let alone to identify fascism itself with Trump.
@@Zhongda95 We’re definitely getting into the weeds here in terms of definitions of fascism, but it seems to me reasonable to associate trump with a strand of (neo)-fascism, considering his anti-immigrant rhetoric, his trend towards authoritarian inflation of the executive branch’s power and consolidation of centrality of command toward himself, among other things. You’re right that it’s a stretch in certain regards, but I think one can entertain stretches in an academic setting if one is cautious. Thank you for highlighting your reticence to follow me down this rabbit hole.
@@pichirisu if you dont mind me asking, how come you find Rorty more relevant than D&G? (This is not an interrogation, I'm simply not familiar with Rorty yet curious in getting to know his work too if I ever get the time)
@@ivan_ivankovich I can't remember why i said this, but probably because i see truth in d/g still missing "the fact of the matter" even though they do much better than other philosophers at mentioning how things just-are as a truth in itself. American pragmatists are just cool because they took the immediate praxis and were like "well, there's a truth within this in some capacity regardless of the conditions even if only consistent due to social participation". tldr d and g do a great job with immediate reality as truth, but american pragmatists just interrogate it a little harder(at least imo, i could also just be entirely wrong(i am a satirist in the sense that rorty is an "ironist"))
@ the Democratic Party has been more fascistic by arming literal Nazis in Ukraine so when you publish a video mimicking the mainstream corporate media it comes off as naive
@@dennisthomas1654 Yes I have, both secondary literature and primary literature such as Mein Kampf. I know how these people think and what their ideology consists of.
@@gavinyoung-philosophy Trump's body count is [pretty low for a Fascist. He starts no wars, breaks no laws, and hews to the Constitution. Biden was far more 'Fascist' by those measures. But you probably voted for him anyway
as you pass through my algostream, i just have to quibble that there are two very different definitions of "populism". see Thomas Frank's definition in books like 'Listen Liberal' and 'What's the Matter With Kansas'. and the same, in American discourse, goes for "Liberalism". these major players in the American political vocabulary are only two of the most obvious examples of what turns American politics into a Tower of Babel. that is of course GOLD for the status quo.
@@zaloo Yeah you’re right that there are different definitions of populism, liberalism, fascism, etc. I’m specifically using it here in the sense of the “right populism” often used to characterize Trump.
@@gavinyoung-philosophy appreciated. in the video you quickly brushed off the alternative, what i would consider fake, populism, to what MAGA is using and what the MSNBC Liberal faction enjoy using to discredit the non-fash alternative to the waning new-liberal consensus. this is a quibble that ruffled my red flags :) but the lecture overall i found quite good. cheers!
Again...I love this approach you take of reading the passage and discussing it. We can all follow along in our own books.And the citation is right there!
@@VioletDeliriums Thank you! Glad my pedagogy suits your learning purposes 🥳
Wow! Someone who actually went to school and read books and what a bookshelf that is! An oldster now, I sure do appreciate channels like this that aren't just armchair cod philosophizing and "reacting" but are actually educational and bringing actual scholars down to a popular level for us. You have a new subscriber!
@@nsbd90now Thanks a lot! Didn’t really read til late in high school so trying to make up for lost time now
@@gavinyoung-philosophy Well, to be sure... y'gotta wait for your brain to develop a bit beyond high school to read graduate-level material. 😀
Some desire that others do not get their desires meet, and that makes them feel empowered and righteous.
Because some people desire things that are bad for themselves in the long run.
@@krunkle5136like?? Affordable healthcare, access to safe abortions, livable wages, affordable food and housing? Pray tell
@krunkle5136 It's worse than conservative elitist paternalism. It's a spiteful power play driven by insecurity and a desire to maintain the appearance of social status. In America, the current economic hierarchy has been portrayed as a reflection of moral virtue while deliberately obscuring historical reasons why it isn't true. Since discovering that my extended family was becoming explicitly white supremacist in their politics, I studied the specific history of my family's property accumilation through 5 generations. It's clear that they not only benefited from systemic racism, but also anti-communist foreign policy that directly favoured the family business. Raising these issues with them leads to denial because they view themselves as radical individualist libertarian-ish Republicans. The ideology leads to reactionary political movements out of a threat to their collective self-image.
One way to define what you are, is to define what you are not
One thing I'd emphasize is that neoliberalism may actually be somewhat "less authoritarian, but further right" than classical fascism. Comparing Constants and Variables between Mussolini and Pinochet is a prime example. The original Fascists did hold a kind of cautionary skepticism towards unbridled capitalism, classical liberalism, and unchecked class conflict, whereas neoliberals were a bit more reckless with privatization and shock therapy. Francoist Spain actually held off until nearly the 1950s to loosen the supervisory reigns of the state to free market policy.
@@Canadoslovakia1 That might actually be correct. Classical fascism refused either socialism or capitalism, desiring a third solution, whereas neoliberalism is brazenly capitalistic. It’s less overtly authoritarian but more economically right.
Dude 3rd position is right wing propaganda, doesnt exist. Fascism is social darwinism, which is the same as unfettered capitalism as seen under classical fascism like the industrialists in Nazi Germany.
Nobody has to be "duped" into anything. Fascism is simply the most capable system of delivering what people want. There's no reason to wrap it up in any abstraction.
@@modernmyth9050 It’s not an abstraction. The point of the video is that fascism is part of a socio-political system that manufactures certain desires and that is the reason it is so successful: because it can then fulfill those manufactured desires.
@gavinyoung-philosophy I'd go as far to say that it doesn't even have to manufacturer them. Those desires are primal and yearn to be fulfilled.
@@modernmyth9050This is the justification that fascism gives for the desires that it itself creates. But But I also think that the term create is not accurate. Fascism appropriates notions of reality and pre-existing norms and organizes them in such a way that society projects itself towards fascism. It's still a very Deleuzian analysis, just a little more elaborate Only a fasci does not recognize that his desires and fantasies were provoked by something or someone. The fascist citizen is not innocent of his own desires but he also does not have total control over them..
Id love to hear more of your thoughts on fascism, itself. Im to the point where i think most of western civilization is fascist, even those clinging to liberalism. I can definitely see how manifestation of desire arationally precludes fascism, but anything short of addressing the material conditions you allude to seems to leave the problem itself unaddressed.
Yeah I think it’s probably just the death pangs of late stage capitalism. It’s an attempt for a dying system to correct itself by reinvigorating the socius with institution-oriented, conservative tendencies to protect the state and capital. You’re right that without addressing material conditions, nothing will change. Micro-fascisms are definitely one of D&G’s concepts id like to produce more content on.
Could you expand on what you mean when you say most of the west is fascist?
Here is my take. There are compulsive liars. But there also compulsive believers. Both groups are more concerned with the movies playing in their heads and seeing themselves as the hero of all outcomes....than the usual person does....a baseline.
Religious? Compulsive in belief by nature.
Fascist? Same thing. Compulsive in belief.
It's about this heroes journey that sociopaths, compulsive believers, narcissists, and other people who would rather have the fantasy than examine reality.....who gravitate towards loving fascism. They see themselves as winning every fight, and do a lot of per-emptive fantasizing and fetishizing of violence. Also, there are a lot of justifications that have to be inserted in there....and critical thinking dispels their fun. Thinking takes work. Fantasizing is easy.
True enough! I think we can see this fantasy in play in the manosphere right now where a defensive and toxic notion of masculinity is put forth as a pipeline to alt-right spaces, especially online. Chronically online young men sit and fester in feelings of inadequacy and perceived ostricization and alt-right demagogues in the Daily Wire, Prager U, etc take advantage of these males’ vulnerability for profit and political gains.
Very interesting. Do you find Democrats less fantastical?
@Moderately so, but I’m still not a democrat because they’re wedded to neoliberal capitalism.
Populism is exactly the question of why do the people desire servitude? Populism started the French Revolution and populism is the basis of all revolutionary movements that aren't elitist vanguards... Indeed Deleuze and Guattari are looking into how to undo fascism's appropriation of populism.
@@Angus-v4w In that sense of the word populism, yes
Excellent lecture. I really encourage you to reinvest in this video/topic with added production value (editing, script revising, etc) because i think you've done a great job here and I think the reach could be extended.
I was really interested in the notion that you mentioned of people desiring thier own humiliation. Maybe i missed it but it didnt feel like you really resolved that idea.
Lastly, obvously you're a very academic, but you've inspired me to try and translate this into an artifact at a more consumable layer of the semantic stack, synthesizing this with hannah arandt and Gromsci.
@@samuelosinaike2254 Thanks so much for your donation Samuel! I certainly intend to continue working on these ideas and subjects. You brought up a really interesting point here regarding desiring one’s own *humiliation*, which is subtly different from desiring one’s oppression; to desire one’s humiliation is to revel in feeling debased, dominated, controlled, etc, and as theorists interested in masochism, this connection would make sense. I see something there now that you’ve brought it to my attention!
He's fine just as he is. Just the straight dope. No irritating music, rapid editing or idiotic visuals we've seen over and over. I for one have had enough of these tarted-up 'lectures' presented with the phony AI generated posh-Brit voice-overs.
Very interesting lecture thank you, coming from Psychoanalysis I can’t help but emphasize the deeper meanings into the Oedipus complex than what Deuleuze suggests here, especially with how much psychoanalysis evolved since Freud, I suggest Winnicot and also Melanie Klein, the drive which is the energy behind desire is a complex but very important aspect of how desiring something and its opposite are linked in intriguing ways
Another amazing video with great explanations. I have nothing to add here, but I want to comment to help boost engagement. So in the next comments I'll be commenting nonsense, but it's just to help boost engagement, because I think the message in this video is urgent. Thanks againg for another great reflection.
Another aspect worth discussing in this topic is the desire of people who didn’t vote for Trump directly but whose everyday desires are part of the socio-desiring machine of fascism. This includes the desire for power that manifests in society-through class, workplace positions, or personal ambitions, for example. These desires drive people to support the capitalist machine in which they are themselves exploited. I believe we cannot reduce the desire for fascism in the capitalist state solely to elections, such as voting for Trump, especially when the opponent is another manifestation of fascism in the big picture. I’m seeing these desires for fascism reflected in my workplace, even though no one there has voted for Trump.
@@nomadsdrifts You’re right! The socius is laden with microfascisms and manufactured consent such that elections are only one manifestation and appearance of fascistic impulses!
What do you think about Dialectic of Enlightenment as a theoretical framework to understand the modern resurgence of fascism?
@@LesterBrunt Still have yet to read it!😬I know I really need to though. You’ve encouraged me to put it at the top of my tbr
@@gavinyoung-philosophy It is almost the opposite approach to D&G, since it does try to reduce the problem to a somewhat simplified concept. But they do it in such a brilliant way that it seems to match almost perfectly with the way things appear. Maybe it is just my mind playing tricks, but you can see the things they are describing play out currently in social media.
I think that, absent of any particular theories, or even a really rigorous definition of fascism, one good way of explaining the appeal of authoritarianism in general including leftist authoritarianism like state communism and the spiritual core of revolutionary anarchism in the propaganda by the deed era (Marx said the state would wither, we'd be all good) is that it promises finality. A complete, stable, *finished* state, which is restful in times of political strife. Someone else will do your thinking for you, everything will be ok, just do your job and be patient.
Liberal Democracy is chaotic and eternally unfinished, it doesn't offer absolutes - and this is true whether it's a robust, well constructed "real" democracy, or a flawed hodgepodge. It's stressful; it's work. Honest proponents of it do not claim there will be a final, complete, restful state, only constant balancing, and compromise that never satisfies everyone.
Leftist critics of liberal democracy will also point out that these compromises break down along all these unfair lines that replicate all these existing hierarchies and that power structures just occupy that framework pretty comfortably and mold it into their own preferred shape, and lots of them are so disgusted - both genuinely and performatively - with liberalism that they're not all that interested in defending it, even when and if their own realpolitik is sometimes just euro style soc dem.
I increasingly find the "I hate liberals too, Mr. Online Conservative, but because they don't go far enough, not because they go too far" shibboleth irritating. I think it's tied up in identity and social positioning and kind of useless.
@@asafoetidajones8181 You hit the nail on the head here. Deleuze and Guattari’s point about capitalism is very similar to this: whereas classical models of state authority were grounded in the person of the benevolent king, the strong dictator, the trusted aristocracy, etc, contemporary forms of authoritarianism depend upon the permanent state of instability permeating economies and societies. By using the momentum of this constant destabilizing effect caused by deterritorialization of markets and goods, strategic relations of exchange are established based on neoliberal notions of free markets protected by the state. The state thus becomes not a promised end model, but a temporary fix for a problem of the system’s own making.
Not sure what is meant by the last of your paragraphs, but good stuff prior!
I saw your UAH and stopped to watch and listen!
💙
You go there?
@ : Years ago, I went there.
Maybe, I’ll be coming back soon.
Hopefully: summer semester.
Thanks for that Gavin
@@DamienWalter Of course :)
Excellent!
Pretty good. Some day I'll read the Anti-Oedipus.
Great video! I’m not sure if you attend(ed) UAH, but if you did… I am glad that I ran into your channel. I attended undergrad at ASU in Montgomery. I love to support like minded individuals in my home state. I have liked and subscribed !!
@@jaywest2142 Thanks a bunch! I’m currently a Sophomore at UAH
Excellent discussion btw...I need to read Anti-Oedipus. The real truth is nobody, or very very few, wants to have sex with their mother or kill their father, how Freud became gospel for many years is rather mind boggling. I got stuck on Freud for a while thinking it might help me resolve my problems, and it made me more neurotic, but I was just going on his intellectual reputation. Thank you for the lecture!
Thanks! Great point. I was just thinking while editing this video how crazy it is that the Oedipus complex somehow became a standard, straight-faced position taken by scholars and practitioners. Super interesting to hear about your journey with Freud!
What amazes me is that otherwise perfectly rational Marxists get tangled up in Freud's nonsense. Come on folks!
Interesting. I was introduced to him through psychology and I honestly laughed out loud when I read about the oedipus complex in my textbook. Maybe people took it seriously because like you said they were going off of his intellectual reputation? It would be interesting to read about what people outside of academia thought about it at the time. Bc personally I think I would’ve had the same reaction 😂 but who really knows. If im not mistaken, he knew homosexuality was natural and that there was nothing inherently wrong with it so that’s based.
politics and theory are a black hole, dont waste your best years on this nonsense, all of it will just increase your neuroticism
Love this bro
@@sainelson161 Thanks man :)
That was great, thanks for that lecture. I would be interested in a philosophy zoom.
@@ModernConversations Thank you! Feel free to shoot me an email via the email in my channel description if you’d just like to chat philosophy over zoom. No need to pay via channel membership
Thanks for that, it was great!
love the thumbnail
@@piotr_jurkiewicz Thank you🤗
Does the "desire for production" concept is similar to rene girard theory on mimetic?
@@bodhisuryana2447 Never read Girard so I have no idea
Amazing stuff !! as someone who is just getting introduced to D&G's ouevre. I started with presenting "Everybody wants to be a fascist" in my philosophy reading group, which i though was the text you would discuss. Out of curiosity however, are you familiar with the work of Francois Laruelle?
@@jhandu_jogi Thank you! I am not familiar with him. Sounds fun to use D&G in a class. I’ve yet to have a class even tangentially related to postmodernism.
Speaking of Freud; his follower Carl Jung developed the most common theory of personality types whereby everyone fits somewhere on either side of the dichotomies Introverted/Extroverted, Intuitive/Sensing, Thinking/Feeling, and Concrete/Abstract. Out of these types, those which typically are or desire to follow genuinely democratic leaders are all Intuitive, which is the overwhelmingly rarer primary perception mode, and Feeling, which is typically assigned as the “female” judging mode. Of course the latter part doesn’t matter so much when people are overwhelmingly comfortable being shown or told what to do, if not oppressed into doing any given thing.
Speaking of the psychoanalysis of fascism, are you familiar with Eric Fromm's "Escape From Freedom"? I think it's an excellent book that gets to the heart of these ideas in a way that's much more accessible to non-philosophers.
@@Gumper30 I’ve never read Fromm, but I’ve heard about him on many occasions, so I’ll add him to my list! Thanks for the recommend
I don't know why they used desire and not desireS. I think there is, in a single person, continous struggle between desires.
@@dillegitante That’s indeed what they imply and explicitly specify in other passages! Desire is not a monolith, but an intermingling series of flows forming some practicable tool
@gavinyoung-philosophy Thank you.
But also the incumbent was pretty awful lets gloss over that though
@@k3mal_ uhhh… no
True _to an extent_ but that incumbent beat the tar out of Trump in 2020 because everyone saw how incompetent and corrupt Trump was - if you can forget that in just 4 years, or you're a young _adult_ and can't be bothered to look at what happened just 4-8 years before _with the same politician and party_ then there _is_ something wrong with you.
Sail Newman did a thing about Lacans for discourses in relation to radical - anarchist politician on anarchist library for org
How old are you? I have a poli sci Masters and am impressed.
I’m 20. I’m a sophomore undergrad right now. Thank you😁
@gavinyoung-philosophy you get it at a young age. Im 31 and was much dumber than you at 20. Keep up the good work, we need your insight more than ever.
@ Thanks a lot man :)
As portrayed here, fascism is something that requires for its inception, a period during which its polar opposite is made to confront people and to deny their desires. In short, those who have an interest in the avoidance of fascism's further excesses, would be best advised to resist moves by political figures whose operation is clearly, even increasingly viewed by the public as working against the interest of the majority.
The enthusiasm for Trump was eventually outweighed by the exasperation with, turning to fear of, Kamala.
Interesting video
I thought that, first time round, voting against their own interest. This time I don't see it. I see total Democratic failure to convince. And more and more authoritarianism rising, and not least, a zealous supplying of genocide.The affluent Democrat surely was voting in their own interest, a dubious virtue, ("Ask not what your country can do for you..." still refreshes,) but if it is the imperative you seek, we failed to convince Trump's voters that we would create policy in their interest. Simple. Assuming they were just too stupid or in the grip of a dubious complex is just snobbery. Elitism, the antonym of populism, is the killer!
My favourite french philosopher? I'd have to say is Zinedine Zidane.
is this just an introduction? because it doesn't give us so much!
@@francescocerasuolo4064 It is indeed an introduction to one small passage of a work I’ve done lots other lecture on.
"Desire" for sex is a biological imperative.
Very interrsting
Hey, a Charger! Huh, big internet, small world.
@@mattwilson8298 Yessir! You go to UAH?
@gavinyoung-philosophy nah, everyone else I knew did tho. Lived down the street from the campus for years.
@ Right on🤙
Bro got that anti fascist rizz.
Vini Jr.
Vini isn't stupid enough to be fascist. Neymar on the other hand supported Bolsonaro.
@echase3 yeah, for sure. And that is one of the reasons I love Vini Jr. way more than Neymar. Neymar is one of those cases that we love to hate.
The anciet philosophers do not think that "society was created so we can follow our desire, that cannot be followed by an individual person". That is completely wrong.
@@jozan9 So that we can fulfill needs which individually we could not, yes, this is what Plato, Aristotle, and Cicero at the least all say. I believe I correct myself from desire to need in the video.
It seems a bit one-sided, as if to say the dispositions people develop are purely individual, and have no contextual antecedents, which clearly misses a great part of the equation, the manufacture of desire.
@@abody499 Far from it! Deleuze and Guattari are chief among thinkers who favor a contextualized, social, and economic understanding of the production of desire! The whole reason one can even desire one’s own oppression is because to be is to be among many and to have one’s actions and values mediated by one’s relations to others. As such, social antecedents are the precondition for any individual’s existence and ability to manifest their desires.
@@gavinyoung-philosophy yeah, interesting. thank you.
SPEAK For YOUrself! I Desire Communism.
@@JayceeGenocide ⚒️
@@gavinyoung-philosophy this says it all
I desire cookies and that others enjoy cookies too. :3
@@Remedy462 This
@gavinyoung-philosophy Worship Cookie, heathen. 🍪
conveyors are you all
Neymar Jr.
leo jardins
philipe coutinho
14:00
"all we can see is...
...through...
that tells us what it is"
Your grammar sucks and only makes you sound smart to people who can't track the subject.
@@xxfishytomatoxx6730 You’re right. As an extemporaneous lecturer, my grammar is often sub-par, but I try my best.
Kylian Mbappe
juninho pernambucano
Your argument is based on assumption that people were voting for Trump rather than people voting against the corporate fascism of the neoliberal party. Same argument can be applied to Harris voters
Words mean less and less as people overuse them as weapons and in so doing diminish the weight of words… “Fascist ”, “Racist”, ect… these terms mean less and less as folks get inundated with them.
I wish this was true but slurs only seem to gain power as used more and more. I'm honestly of the belief that we are being told that words lose power as used more because people don't like being called a racist or a fascist even if they are one.
@ This maybe true… No one really knows what is in the soul of another… and everyone wears a mask or three in public, it is the way of the human in a social structure, the more complicated the social structure the more intricate the mask. However, I do reiterate and using the “facsist” attack, putting forth that half the electorate is facsist because they voted for a guy the other half despises to their core being is a folly on such a grand scale, as the recent overwhelming and historic political comeback of a man who was consistently and consistently likened to Hitler has proven clearly.🤷
Rereading that, it is a bit jumbled, in my defense my dog Brix is trying to get in my lap as I attempt to write… very distracting he is. 110lbs Cane Corsos are Not Lap Dogs
@@Robertlynschultz Yeah I'm not certain but it feels it can go either way.
@@Robertlynschultz or maybe many people who use words like fascist and racist just view the words as objective morally neutral descriptors rather than insults. Maybe it’s the fault of those receiving the accusation that the word has no meaning. Maybe the way people are educated on racism is partly to blame too. These words have colloquial and formal definitions and uses, just like most words do. Yet when these particular words are used to describe people’s actions and behavior, they are dismissed as “having no meaning”. To say this hasn’t always been the case is wrong. The tactics of racist politicians are well known. They don’t say n** anymore. Instead they use abstract language like “forced busing, states’ rights”, and Dei hire. So who here is making the word racism meaningless? The people who intentionally obscure their intentions with abstract language, or the people who are able to accurately identify it?
There is a criteria for fascism. And the president elect and his friends fulfill those criteria. Demanding conformity, appeal to tradition, emphasis on the nuclear family, the boogeymen who seek to destroy the nuclear family and its way of life, the ultranationalism, a charismatic leader. The requirements are easily met.
National Socialists... I think the next Nazis would label undesirables as "Nazis" due to grandiosity and fear. Your discourse and the discourse on this video cleaves through the problem, and both halves lay open for analysis. This fascism lays on a different plane, that of the internet and the resulting super-ego effects. Who is controlling more? Who is suffering? I dont think deportations for instance are similar to what happened with the Jewish population, it's just part of growing as a country. Think of how hard it is to pack up and live in Paris. Trump even offered the union of USA and Mexico during these deportations. These problems could be analysed, I just think people are reluctant to.
I don't know. I'm still learning. But I saw something really wrong with this recent election and I thought Trump was a progressive, and not like Hitler. Making a country good is the job of a president. No duh.
Man... There is so many things wrong in this video, and I only watched 5 min of it. I think I should do a refutation video instead of commenting every single time.
Absolutely. Horribly done
And your educational background and degree is.... what, exactly??
@@nsbd90now What does that have to do with anything??? But if you really want to know I'm a lawyer with focus on philosophy of Law
This is old news. And already moot. ABC capitulated. You know this.
Why are you publishing this as six hour old information?
vegeti
dinamite
very provactive pic i like it lol
Haha thanks man
payet
ribamar
You philosophical reading and understanding seems fairly accurate and thorough, but it kinda surprises me that you identify fascism with Trump so easily. From a European perspective at least, it seems quite wrong to associate Trump with fascism, let alone to identify fascism itself with Trump.
@@Zhongda95 We’re definitely getting into the weeds here in terms of definitions of fascism, but it seems to me reasonable to associate trump with a strand of (neo)-fascism, considering his anti-immigrant rhetoric, his trend towards authoritarian inflation of the executive branch’s power and consolidation of centrality of command toward himself, among other things. You’re right that it’s a stretch in certain regards, but I think one can entertain stretches in an academic setting if one is cautious. Thank you for highlighting your reticence to follow me down this rabbit hole.
Deleuze and Guattari are cool, but feel extremely non-current. You should check out rorty, not that he's "better", but he's more pertinent(maybe).
@@pichirisu I’ve done many Rorty lectures. Love him!
@@gavinyoung-philosophy Word, I'll check them out
@@pichirisu if you dont mind me asking, how come you find Rorty more relevant than D&G? (This is not an interrogation, I'm simply not familiar with Rorty yet curious in getting to know his work too if I ever get the time)
@@ivan_ivankovich I can't remember why i said this, but probably because i see truth in d/g still missing "the fact of the matter" even though they do much better than other philosophers at mentioning how things just-are as a truth in itself. American pragmatists are just cool because they took the immediate praxis and were like "well, there's a truth within this in some capacity regardless of the conditions even if only consistent due to social participation".
tldr d and g do a great job with immediate reality as truth, but american pragmatists just interrogate it a little harder(at least imo, i could also just be entirely wrong(i am a satirist in the sense that rorty is an "ironist"))
pikachu
Totally unconvincing argument.
Agreed
Naive as the day is long 😂😂😂😂
@@Gettothegone So not very naive?🧐
@ the Democratic Party has been more fascistic by arming literal Nazis in Ukraine so when you publish a video mimicking the mainstream corporate media it comes off as naive
Donald Trump and only Donald Trump can save us. Donald Trump is our last hope!!!!
Giant swastikas, devil words etc. Sensationalist rhetoric but wordy. Ironic!
Desire is not totally irrational. Read Mises's Human Action.
Have you ever read a book about Hitler or Mussolini? This is obscene.
@@dennisthomas1654 Yes I have, both secondary literature and primary literature such as Mein Kampf. I know how these people think and what their ideology consists of.
@@gavinyoung-philosophy Trump's body count is [pretty low for a Fascist. He starts no wars, breaks no laws, and hews to the Constitution. Biden was far more 'Fascist' by those measures. But you probably voted for him anyway
Translation: people are sheep. Not very enlightening.
BS
Couldn't agree more
As a black man…..
No, never have never will 😂
as you pass through my algostream, i just have to quibble that there are two very different definitions of "populism".
see Thomas Frank's definition in books like 'Listen Liberal' and 'What's the Matter With Kansas'.
and the same, in American discourse, goes for "Liberalism".
these major players in the American political vocabulary are only two of the most obvious examples of what turns American politics into a Tower of Babel. that is of course GOLD for the status quo.
@@zaloo Yeah you’re right that there are different definitions of populism, liberalism, fascism, etc. I’m specifically using it here in the sense of the “right populism” often used to characterize Trump.
@@gavinyoung-philosophy appreciated.
in the video you quickly brushed off the alternative, what i would consider fake, populism, to what MAGA is using and what the MSNBC Liberal faction enjoy using to discredit the non-fash alternative to the waning new-liberal consensus.
this is a quibble that ruffled my red flags :)
but the lecture overall i found quite good.
cheers!