(This is proof of concept - not advice). So what I think about the CIA process - I use 77/13/10 ratios. I use a minimum amt of water (the solubility at 100c (boiling) is 2.46g/ml so for 77g it’s around 40cc water. Boil, mix with the 13+10 and then use COLD denatured ethanol. Then I stick it into the freezer. It won’t freeze w ethanol in it and the remaining KNO3 will precipitate out because it’s poorly soluble at 0c (freezing). Then carry on straining, granulating etc). The alcohol/acetone business is just to chill it down quickly then evaporate quickly. Getting it cold is very important or you will lose KNO3 in solution when you strain it:
thanks for your Info,I had to.try it.out for myself that was the first time seem to work out.got a new belt for the ball mill so I been just milling a lot.
If it’s just granulated whether you use this process or a ball mill it’s about 50-70% as fast as Goex. 50% compared to Swiss. If it’s compressed into pucks to higher density then granulated and sorted by size you and equal commercial powder. I compress with a 12 ton and it’s probably 85% and for me that’s plenty close.
I know this recipe from my days in the military during the Vietnam era and it still looks the same. As Black Powder is hygroscopin, have you triesusing very dilute no=itrocellulose in the acetone to improve its resistance to collecting moisture? Also, at the brownie batter thickness, a potato ricer might work well to make your grains
Wonder if you could have stopped before adding enough acetone to make it liquid, and skipped the whole cheese cloth step. Go directly to granulating from the pot. Id be afraid to loose nitrate in the liquid
I just did this the other day. If you get the solubility ratio really close the KNO3 will dissolve fine at a near boil and then become a paste as soon as the room temp charcoal and S are added. Ultimately I am not so impressed with the speed of my granulated bp from this. I’ll continue to test this method and see if I can make it better.
Wow, i was surprised with the burn rate. Well done. Forgive me if I missed it, but did you use willow charcoal? And, did you do any pre-grinding on it?
Electric Mixer Motors have Brushes and produce sparks which could ignite any dry residue, also Alcohol and Acetone are both Highly Flammable. not a Healthy combination. A wooden spoon works and you don't actually have to mix it this hard. just don't let it dry to the pan or it might ignite. The Army field manual is still out there if you can find it, I've had mine for many years.
that's just the way the directions I had said to do,this was my first time doing it,and it came out just fine,I was I bit nervous about adding water to the nitrate and discovering it,iam sure if I were to continue doing bp this way, I would master this technique down and it would come out better.i got my new belt on the ball mill and that seams to work for me,dump it and run it,takes long but it comes out just fine for fireworks
Your screen is very coarse. I've found that a piece of wire window screen is actually closer to the 16 mesh nominal size for 2F powder with 20 mesh being about right for 3F powder. There are Screen Size Charts available online if you do a little searching.
thanks for the info,do you think if I used a different size screen,it would make it any better?I do have plans on buying some real screens,this is just something I had around.
(This is proof of concept - not advice). So what I think about the CIA process - I use 77/13/10 ratios. I use a minimum amt of water (the solubility at 100c (boiling) is 2.46g/ml so for 77g it’s around 40cc water. Boil, mix with the 13+10 and then use COLD denatured ethanol. Then I stick it into the freezer. It won’t freeze w ethanol in it and the remaining KNO3 will precipitate out because it’s poorly soluble at 0c (freezing). Then carry on straining, granulating etc). The alcohol/acetone business is just to chill it down quickly then evaporate quickly. Getting it cold is very important or you will lose KNO3 in solution when you strain it:
thanks for your Info,I had to.try it.out for myself that was the first time seem to work out.got a new belt for the ball mill so I been just milling a lot.
Same here. CIA worked OK but it was godawful messy. I mill puck and grind now. The granules are a lot prettier.
I'm going to have to try that thank you for this bit of information
How does it shoot compared to off the shelf (sub) black powder, is the FPS about the same?
If it’s just granulated whether you use this process or a ball mill it’s about 50-70% as fast as Goex. 50% compared to Swiss. If it’s compressed into pucks to higher density then granulated and sorted by size you and equal commercial powder. I compress with a 12 ton and it’s probably 85% and for me that’s plenty close.
This is actually the best way to make it everything gets Incorporated very well
I use a shitty version of the cia method without sulfur and with just water, and it still beats the bp I make with sulfur in my homemade ball mill
I know this recipe from my days in the military during the Vietnam era and it still looks the same. As Black Powder is hygroscopin, have you triesusing very dilute no=itrocellulose in the acetone to improve its resistance to collecting moisture? Also, at the brownie batter thickness, a potato ricer might work well to make your grains
Ball mill no need yesssah 🤙🏾 for sharing 🔥
had to try it,and besides my belt on the ball mill broke.lol
@@zerocool6698 sometimes you gotta DIY to get the results 💥
But you need a freezer...😢
Wonder if you could have stopped before adding enough acetone to make it liquid, and skipped the whole cheese cloth step. Go directly to granulating from the pot. Id be afraid to loose nitrate in the liquid
I just did this the other day. If you get the solubility ratio really close the KNO3 will dissolve fine at a near boil and then become a paste as soon as the room temp charcoal and S are added. Ultimately I am not so impressed with the speed of my granulated bp from this. I’ll continue to test this method and see if I can make it better.
Fun and educational. Thanks for sharing this with the world. Knowing is half the Battle!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Wow, i was surprised with the burn rate. Well done. Forgive me if I missed it, but did you use willow charcoal? And, did you do any pre-grinding on it?
that was willow and no.
@@zerocool6698 I'm on that process like a bum on a 40!
But now, except for fire and partial spray fireworks, other fireworks effects use flash powder, whistle fuel and so on
You seem to be whisking pretty vigorously, is there any reason we couldn't do this with an electric mixer?
I didn't have one,but I have heard you can use cold water and a mixer for about 30 minutes and that seems to work.
The teflon scrapings from the pan are the secret ingredient! :)
@sempertard the pan was garbage so why not use it.lol
@@zerocool6698 hahaha. just messing with yah.
Electric Mixer Motors have Brushes and produce sparks which could ignite any dry residue, also Alcohol and Acetone are both Highly Flammable. not a Healthy combination. A wooden spoon works and you don't actually have to mix it this hard. just don't let it dry to the pan or it might ignite. The Army field manual is still out there if you can find it, I've had mine for many years.
This is how they did it during the civil war except they used really strong alcohol instead of acetone
So why not use an electric hand mixer?
Why it CIA?
the CIA development this method
Since neither charcoal nor sulfur are soluble in a polar solvent like water, why do you continue to mix this?
that's just the way the directions I had said to do,this was my first time doing it,and it came out just fine,I was I bit nervous about adding water to the nitrate and discovering it,iam sure if I were to continue doing bp this way, I would master this technique down and it would come out better.i got my new belt on the ball mill and that seams to work for me,dump it and run it,takes long but it comes out just fine for fireworks
The kno3 is water saleable. It's just wets the charcoal with kno3 .
At least you don't have nosey neighbors 😂
no I just have the police station behind me.and the neighbors love fireworks.
Your screen is very coarse. I've found that a piece of wire window screen is actually closer to the 16 mesh nominal size for 2F powder with 20 mesh being about right for 3F powder. There are Screen Size Charts available online if you do a little searching.
thanks for the info,do you think if I used a different size screen,it would make it any better?I do have plans on buying some real screens,this is just something I had around.
1st time..... Huh?
yeah I was a little nervous about this method.it saved time on ball milling.