That's a good one...he's got some cool lines towards the end of the series. I really like when he's getting arrested and Sentinel says he doesn't see what makes Megatron so badass and Megs responds: "Keep looking." So good.
Use this quote to describe a buddy’s character in one of our dnd sessions. He loved it and ask for where it came from, he was surprised to hear it was from a comic based of toy line
the compilation of megatron origins was my introduction to IDW and while as a kid i didnt fully understand the backdrop of systemic violence that it shows, it completely changed how i see this franchise and is arguebly what hooked back when i was starting to grow out of the sillier, more toyetic side of the franchise.
That's awesome! This series will always have a special place in my heart because it was one of the early titles I read when I started reading the IDW continuity and it and Furman's stuff really sucked me into that universe.
IDW Megatron has to be my favorite iteration of the character, so much so he might even be my most favorite character in IDW. Mostly due to his origin and, without spoiling, development much further down the line. I'll be sure to decide after you finish up the series haha
Lugnut, being a large brute, thinks he can take Megs out, but he never underestimates Megatron's cunning. Lugnut gets defeated and is just about to be executed, until he starts begging for mercy and claims his undying loyalty for him, should he ever be spared. Which Megatron does.
I am kind of a casual transformers fan who only watched some of the movies and Transformers Prime so I don't have a ton of Transformers knowledge and I am going through these comics for the first time. This is why your videos are so knowledgeable to me and I really get to learn a lot. I agree with a lot of the criticisms that you had with the art of it being way too detailed to the point where it feels convoluted and the colours being way too muted that being said the premise in my opinion was great. I think the idea of Megatron being a revolutionary who lost his way later on is a fantastic way to add some complexity and layers to what was many would call a one dimensional villain. I loved how Chaos Theory followed up on this story and helped enhance it I just wish that Autocracy didn't retcon it.
Thanks, glad to hear you're getting something out of the videos! I agree, I think Chaos Theory really enhanced this series. And while I really like Autocracy, there's no denying that Megatron reverts back to type there. It's a cool story, but it does feel like a more classic approach to Megatron.
Brad Owen's Poker vlog has the same affect on me man.. I recommend it for all shitty days! haha!.. You may not even be a fan of poker!.. Try not to look for the latest stuff. ;) .. But if you follow his journey chronologically on his channel.. You'll have many a nice comforting evening & experience! .. He's a real genuine dude!.. And watching him go from where he was to where he is.. Well, it's a story worth watching! . ;) ..
Yo I love the new style of thumbnail MB3! Looks extra slick! The whole production value has shot up tremendously, it’s spectacular! So Megatron Origin, this one has always been a bit mixed for me. It was my proper introduction to IDW’s TF universe, so in that way it’ll always be special for me in some regard. At the end of the day I prefer my Megatron to be one step removed from being the Devil. If he’s a magnificent bastard, he should be 95% bastard. That all said and putting those preferences aside, this is a good origin. I kind of wish Transformers did more novels because I think this would make for an excellent prose story. Reading Megatron’s thought process as he spirals into a warlord would be fascinating. I also think that sets up a great foundation for IDW Megatron going forward and allowed him to go in a totally unique direction. I grew up in Appalachia (closer to steel production than coal extraction but still), so Megatron being a worker pushed aside for the sake of greed really strikes a cord with me. I’m someone who wishes Transformers stories were waaaay more political, so I certainly appreciate that here. Alex Milne is my favorite Transformers artist (and artists in general), but this still leans more Dreamwave than MtMtE which I don’t care for as much. Part of that is the coloring, because it’s a muddled mess here. I think the colors are worse in the IDW hardcovers, because here in the video they’re at least a bit cleaner whereas the collection is nigh unreadable. Finally, I really appreciate how you format these retrospectives. I’ve been watched comic review videos since I was in grade school, and I’ve noticed that they’re generally about 4/5s synopsis 1/5 analysis (half of which is spent reassuring the viewer that different opinions can exist). Your videos on the other hand are the exact opposite, the vast majority of this runtime is spent examining the themes and history of the comic in question. It’s so much more interesting and engaging as a viewer. I say this with no hyperbole, you do the best reviews of comic books on UA-cam no contest (especially at this output). Every one of these videos is a treat. Fantastic work as always!! Edit: Oh also I wanted to ask, do you have any plans for the 40th anniversary of the first issue of the Marvel run next month?
Thanks, man! That's high praise indeed! I'm touched. It's really moving to see people respond to what I'm doing here, so thank you again, brother! Much appreciated! That's interesting that you mentioned that bit about the colors looking worse in the hardcover - I was genuinely surprised when I started editing the video and saw how much better the digital versions colors looked when enlarged. The problems are still there, for sure, but I agree that they (strangely) didn't seem as bad as they do in print. I never considered a novel, but that's a great idea for a story like this! That would allow for the time and insight into seeing much more clearly how Megatron changed and became corrupted. Come to think of it, I'd love a series of novels devoted to the entire IDW timeline - kind of unify and harmonize the entire thing in terms of continuity and tone as well as fleshing out certain things that got cut short or really needed time to breathe. I've been thinking about doing *something* for some component of the 40th anniversary of the brand and have had a few false starts in terms of ideas, but it's still at the conceptual stage at this point. I'm hoping to get something nailed down soonish...but I'll keep you updated!
Love the new intro 👍 and the coverage of this mini series was stellar, I had no idea the original idea was to make this arc at least 10 issues. Kinda makes sense since the Transformers franchise as a whole has a history of cramming big ideas into small story arcs. The biggest example I can think of is the original cartoon’s final season was supposed to be 6 to 10 episodes but the studio forced the writers to squash it down to 3 (Rebirth). You can tell the writers were definitely under the gun to rush this finale out but I think it was handled pretty well, especially since the season introduced the fan favourite concept of headmasters and incorporated fan favourite characters from the comics like Scorponok and Lord Zarrak
Thanks, man! And yeah, that's a great comparison to make with Rebirth. I definitely think things could have been better, but I also enjoy those final episodes quite a bit. I really wish we had gotten a full fourth season from Sunbow...it would have been awesome to see Peter Cullen's Optimus become Powermaster Optimus Prime!
@@Moonbase3 absolutely 👍, plus the series was left wide open with no real ending. Luckily a decade later Beast Wars did a good job to fill some of the gaps.
Oh, you can tell that the writer of Megatron Origin and Furman were not coordinated from something outside of misticism. In Megatron Origin, in the cops burial scene, you can see a pretty G1-style Elita-1 next to that Orion Pax fella. In many other pages, in the background, you can see female transformers entertaining Clench and other gladiators, or the rich in their air frigate later before Starscream makes it crash. How does that work with the infamous Spotlight Arcee?
Very true, although, to be fair, it's unclear if those characters were specifically detailed as such in Holmes' script that Furman looked at, or if Milne just added them of his own volition.
I've seen so many vids that do an actual deep dive into Megatron and his story in particular, but at the same time completely omit the added depth of his past given later in the series through MTMTE and Lost Light where you see things like him actually being friends with Impactor, him hiding under a table during a bar brawl out of fear, him doing his best to save and protect his injured friend/mentor, and even seeing the reasons behind his fears, the small hints at the bottled aggression and rage building up within him, and general distrust. Just things like that yk? I feel like it could be good as its own video if not a continuation of this one.
Definitely. The plan is to cover that stuff in detail when I get to the retrospective videos on MtMtE and Lost Light. There's a lot to talk about there, and to go over in regards to how it fits with what was set up in this series, so it'll be part of the phase two retrospectives.
Id imagine that Furman's imput was similar to what Nick Roche has said he got for Spotlight: Kup, which was simple suggestions and opinions that can be taken or leaven. Roche said that Furman felt Kup should've died at the end of the Spotlight issue due to what Kup did to his fellow Autobots, so I'd guess that Furman's input was simply about character usage and the like.
The step up in editing is a welcome and fun addition. Once again, I hope this type of writing for Megatron is taken into TF One. I really hope the film is willing to serious but I'm not betting on it.
Thanks! And yeah, I'll be curious to see how they handle Megatron in TF One. I don't really know what to expect with that one, to be honest, but I'll give it a shot.
I took the fader coloring yo be a sign of faded memory, like a record played grey. It's also how I see the not quite accurate depiction of Optimus/Optronix etc. Megatron is not a 100% reliable narrator, even when he isn't deliberately trying to deceive anyone. Maybe I'm overthinking it but that is the feeling I got from the faded colors and the small inconsistencies... Cheers.
True. Also interesting that similar design cues (and even naming convention) would be used again during Shadowplay with Pious Maximus. Seems like there might have been a lot of bots that looked that way prior to the war, which also pays tribute to the brand's tradition of multiple redecos.
I remember when i first read this comic i tought it was a prequel to the War Within series. Grimlock looks the same, Optimus looks the same, Megatron transforms into tank-thing, Ratbat is not a bat etc. The Spotlight: Shockwave comic was also confusing a little. I tought it was a short story for the Marvel TF timeline, but no. Shockwave fights in the new universe with the Dinobots on the prehystoric Earth AGAIN.😅
I gotta say there are people whom know they are evil and simply don't care. Ive met someone terrible once, absolutely terrible. The things this person claimed to have done, and enjoyed with no regrets- There are absolutely people who are just monsters. While our experiences may shape our paths, everyone decides who they wish to be. If you willingly know you are in the wrong, and you refuse to change- You are a monster, because you become one, once youve given up on trying to change to become a better person.
Sure, I wouldn't disagree with that. I think once you cross certain lines, you have a choice: stop and chase course, or take it even further. Megatron definitely chose the latter after he crossed the line of killing someone, but I think Holmes did a good job setting him up as someone who wasn't inherently evil prior to that event.
I know in my TF headcannon, I connect a version of Earthspark with the Aligned continuity, mostly in regards to Megatron's redemption arc (after his long exile in space, he returns to Earth to atone for his actions). I even asked Nicole Dubuc about it on Twitter and she seemed fine with my personal headcannon.
21:37/21:40 For Straxus, that might represent one of his clones (he's no stranger to it). For Monstructor, that might represent his Takara recolor, Dinoking (although why was it shown in their combined form, since they won't have access to it yet).
That's a clever point about Straxus! :) The Monstructor/Dinoking thing just doesn't seem to have an answer, both because of the combiner element and the scale involved. There was a point where I wondered if it was supposed to be Blot, as we see him later and he has kind of a similar chest design, but the head and face is different.
I didn't know Holmes worked on Arkham Origins, that nice to know (underrated game in eyes) I hear Megatron Oragin was set up a partner to War Within, to give a Megatron organs story to line cup with Optimus' origins story. the art of the series reminds me of the Cybertron shown in the movie tie comics Reign of Starscream, Defiance and Foundation. 17:35 to 18:45, 18:50 to 19:12 and 19:15 to 19:19:25 sums it nicely Megatron was an inevitable and necessary evil to combat backlash to Cybertron's corrupt government but in moving outward and striking worlds that did Cybertron no harm he turned his people into a people to be scored and reviled. we see in More Then Meets The Eye and Lost Light how with out Megatron Cybertron would have become a theocratic hell. Corruption ruins society and pave the way for chaotic anarchy like the Decepticons.
Definitely agree with your points here! And it's funny, I just re-read that storyline in MTMTE a few weeks back as I was considering mentioning it in the video! Really lays out how both the Cybertronian government and the Decepticons were both horrible, but in very different ways. I should read those movie tie-in comics someday. I like the creative teams involved, so it seems like I would enjoy them for that if nothing else!
The biggest problem with doing comics and cartoons is the time it takes. If they want it done quickly, it takes multiple writers and artists. It takes time to coordinate between everyone which is something they don't have. It's something that plagued the original series too. Everything from having Autobots fighting beside Decepticons against the Autobots to having dead Transformers appearing later on as alive. I agree that there was no real answer given to Megatron in G1. Everything pointed to someone who wanted complete power and that was all he saw. In the new origins series, i see a Megatron who had a heart and grew cold in killing. He lost all emotions and he cut himself out of everything. In other Transformers, Optimus and Megatron were brothers. They knew peace and cooperation as Decepticons and Autobots. Was this origins the same?
I think you're spot on about the lack of time given to comics. It's tough, because there are market demands and expectations, but it would be nice if there could be more time devoted to ensuring that each product was at a high standard. As for your take on Megatron in this series, that's how I see this version of the character as well - almost like he just killed his old self and leaned hard into his new, angry, bitter persona. Optimus and Megatron aren't brothers in this continuity, but later comics will establish that they have/had a bond and a complicated relationship that goes beyond just being mortal enemies.
@@Moonbase3 when looking at Megatron, you can use human physiology on him. For instance, you said that he regretted killing someone. How much of his anger is at the enemy and how much is due to what he's done? In other words, he doesn't forgive himself for his actions. It is interesting how news comics are closer to real life than ever. One thing about writing perfectly and drawing it perfectly. Price. How much writing and art can be done for a profit?
I've been watching your vids for a bit.. Just subscribed.. Where is this on the IDW playlist.. Do I need to watch any others, outside of the excellent playlist I've seen to get it? .. Excellent work sir! ;)
Thanks for the sub and the kind words - I appreciate it! I try to make these videos relatively self-contained, but the previous videos might provide some additional context. My IDW playlist should be up to date and have everything you need so far - work in progress, obviously. :) I'm working on something that will hopefully make the order for this videos a bit more clear, but that's a ways off yet. In the meantime, I hope that answered your question and feel free to ask if you have any others!
I always assumed what was cut from Origins by Simon was stuff relating potential Optimus having a minor role or War Within style council. As Spotlight Optimus has Optimus be shocked that a Prime could be evil. So maybe Optimus was going to be a member of the force that hunted Megatron. So, Simon removed that in order to keep the idea that Primes were pure good in Optimus’s eyes consistent. The War Within style Council I could see it existing alongside the senate. But they exist as a religious body, and use their influence to keep support for the corrupt senate. After all remember the timeframe this comic was published.
Now there's an interesting thought about Optimus! Good idea - I hadn't considered that, but it seems so obvious now that you point it out. Man, I would love to take a look at the notes or early drafts for this series... And I agree with you about the council, I could see that fitting in here. Especially with the flashback in #10 of the Dreamwave series, it had to be on the table at some point...
Its kinda interesting that one of your critiques for this series is that the colors are a bit too washed or dull. That was one of the major issues with the 2010 War For Cybertron game. The lack of color was a major focus for its sequel. It makes you kinda wonder if this is an artistic decision or if the creative teams surrounding transformers struggle with the color palate of transformers world building.
Oh, man, that's a great point about WFC - I totally forgot about that! I've often wondered if it's an intentional thing. The franchise has always been extremely colorful, so I wouldn't be surprised if in trying to reinvent it as more "serious" or "mature" the creative teams thought it would be best to tone down the colors somewhat.
I prefer his older back story as a maniacal genocidal madman. Its very hard to take him seriously in IDW after he becomes 100x worse than the Senate or Nova Prime ever was. Seriously, Megatron did the same shit all of the other villains did. But he gets a redemptiom arc after killing a shitzillion organics and cybertronians?
Fair enough. I know later developments were pretty divisive. Personally, reading this stuff after being obsessed with the X-Men as a kid might have made me more receptive to it, as it seemed to me like a more extreme version of what Chris Claremont tried to do with Magneto. That's just me, though. But yeah, I would struggle to ever feel sympathy for someone like Megatron in real life, so I can see where you're coming from there. Also, "shitzillion" is a new one to me and pretty great! 😂
It’s admittedly easier to have Megatron be an undeniable bad guy rather than someone with sympathetic origins. I mean, look at him in IDW 2019. He’s basically a Neo-Imperialist who wants to return to the old days and is willing to use means such as a terrorist group to legitimize his political party. Megatron always is someone who conquers others, so it can be a bit confusing how a revolutionary fighting for equality goes on to become the biggest expert on genocide in the galaxy. I mean the Decepticons pretty much lose the righteousness of their cause as soon as Megatron betrayed Orion Pax after killing Zeta Prime. Yet for millions of years they act like they’re still fighting that same conflict. While I can understand the perspective of the humans and NAILS, it can feel really unfair how they treat the Autobots and Decepticons as equals. Personally I like to see a Transformers story where the Autobots and Decepticons are actually two separate nations on Cybertron. This division happens because long ago the 13 Primes divided into two groups, groups that would become the modern nations. The Fallen lead those who would become the Decepticons and the Arisen would lead the ancestors of the Autobots. Say Solus Prime was the first casualty as a neutral trying to keep the peace. That war ended with the Arisen slaying the Fallen and becoming the last Prime, but he spares the common bots who followed his enemies because they can’t assimilate back with his people peacefully, so he lets them forge a separate nation. By modern day we have the democratic Autobot Commonwealth and the authoritarian Decepticon Empire with each Prime after the Arisrb trying to reunite the two societies. Let’s say Megatron and Orion Pax are friends despite being two different nationalities. It’s a sign that the two nations are close to actually reuniting. Then through trickery and deceit, Megatron kills the Emperor of Destruction, leader of the Decepticons, and frames the murder on the Autobots. The Great War breaks out, the Autobot government falls and Orion becomes the next Prime. Bam, a story involving politics, a bit of nuance, but keeps true to the usual way the story goes.
Good points on Megatron! I've often thought about what kind of new start I would want to see or even how I would set up a Transformers story if I was given a fresh canvas to work with, and I usually come back to the Autobots and Decepticons as separate nations, so I may be a little biased, but I really like your idea. :) I never came up with the amount of detail you did for how that would actually work, though, so props for the thought you put into it. I like it and would definitely read a story with a setup like that! 💯
@@Moonbase3 I get why IDW 1 gets a lot of praise, but it can feel like the writers never intended to have the Autobots become popular in universe. NAILS distrust both factions and never really acknowledge how bad of an idea it is to elect Starscream as leader of Cybertron while humanity and other organic races are hostile to all Transformers until the Unicron arc. Even when Earth joins the Council of Worlds, it seems like 99.99% of humanity is still anti-Transformer. It makes me wish they chose to have Verity Carlo stick to the main Autobots instead of joining the Wreckers. Humanity just seems like they accept that Earth will be caught up in alien affairs instead of realizing the Autobots are the good guys. Would it kill for a human to apologize for their anti-Transformer racism? During First Strike, no one ever seems to acknowledge how the roles have switched with humanity now invading Cybertron and the Cybertronians imprisoning the humans who want to help them. Scarlett goes on about wanting to stop Joe Colton from leaving behind a legacy of genocide, but given what we see from Flint, the president, Spike, and many other humans, most of Earth would praise Joe.
It was a shame rhat in the new transformers one movie they planted a large part of megatrons origin into orion pax ....and almost all minors were future to be autobots
33:38 I still to this day don't get what the fuck this is underneath his helmet. If confused me so much as a kid. Is it hair?? Ears?? What the fuck are those??
State games was my shit wh3n I was 5-6. Set the tone for my favorite megs and sunstreaker obsession. I'm lucky to have read pretty much everything that's ever been written for tf. Got a close personal friend who owns the entirety of g1 and restores box art. Always been a excellent source for anything and everything. If he had a channel.... there wouldn't be a need for any others, lol
@@Moonbase3 Like I get what they were trying to do...but Megatron was basically the Robot Version of H1tler in the first IDW continuity...and I don't think any kind of "H1tler" should get a "second chance" so to speak. It's actually amazing & kind of pathetic how hard IDW tried to make Megatron less of a villian towards the end of their first continuity. I mean having Shockwave be "Lord of Science & Logic" is cool because Shockwave is Awesome (& there is actually a precedent for that)...but when you start trying to push characters like Tarn & Overlord & even a random Autobot like Getaway (Who I actually agreed with about Megatron) as villains it just feels wrong...at least it does to me.
Sure, and I can understand where you're coming from on that. Making Megatron sympathetic at that point in the timeline is a very tough sell. Personally, I can roll with stuff like that in fiction, but there's no way I could sympathize with someone like Megatron in real life, so your feelings on it make total sense to me. It was definitely not a decision that would work for everybody, and even though I was generally good with it, there were things about it that didn't always work for me. Like you, I also thought Getaway and the mutineers were justified in taking issue with Megatron being on the ship and I had mixed feelings on the stuff with Getaway overall, though I do have to say that his arc in Lost Light is kind of similar to Megatron's journey in Origin, just on a much smaller scale - starting out "in the right" but then taking things too far and going to increasingly extreme lengths to accomplish his goals. So I can at least appreciate that aspect, even if I didn't always love the execution.
I want to point something out here. Looking at this and looking at the government we have now here in the US.. well, it's honestly terrifying to see the IMMENSE and NUMEROUS parallels. They system of the high up stay in power and those beneath them, the working classes get poorer and weaker and have no real rights or ways to change them.. that's not just the cybertronian government, that's literally straight up communism. Social engineering in the most literal sense to cybertronians, for us, it's the US government allowing the Chinese communist party to have a foothold in New York and many MANY more things yet to come I fear. You can say this is conspiracy all you want, but the ACTIONS of those I speak of are practically SCREAMING at us at this point, much less speaking louder than their honeyed and evil words. Nonetheless, megatron origin is still one of the BEST comics of the last 25 years, hands down!
This a “Drop everything and watch it” type notification
🤣 Man, that makes me feel good! Thanks!
Amen
literally
"I’ve heard it said that we gain wisdom through suffering- and tonight I intend to make you very wise."
hardest shit I've ever heard
That's a good one...he's got some cool lines towards the end of the series. I really like when he's getting arrested and Sentinel says he doesn't see what makes Megatron so badass and Megs responds: "Keep looking."
So good.
Use this quote to describe a buddy’s character in one of our dnd sessions. He loved it and ask for where it came from, he was surprised to hear it was from a comic based of toy line
@@Moonbase3 Damn I forgot that one. IDW Megs is built different
What about: this makes a fair fight, the other guy's problem
@@DJ-vk4rp That's a good one, too. Some good lines in this book.
the compilation of megatron origins was my introduction to IDW and while as a kid i didnt fully understand the backdrop of systemic violence that it shows, it completely changed how i see this franchise and is arguebly what hooked back when i was starting to grow out of the sillier, more toyetic side of the franchise.
That's awesome! This series will always have a special place in my heart because it was one of the early titles I read when I started reading the IDW continuity and it and Furman's stuff really sucked me into that universe.
IDW Megatron has to be my favorite iteration of the character, so much so he might even be my most favorite character in IDW. Mostly due to his origin and, without spoiling, development much further down the line. I'll be sure to decide after you finish up the series haha
IDW Megatron might be my favorite version of the character as well. The places they took him during this run were so rad and unexpected!
You say blue Blitzwing. I say Dogfight
Interesting! I hadn't considered Dogfight! The turret is still throwing me off, though.
8:38 This illustration alone explains to me why Lugnut became one of Megatron's loyal simps.
Lugnut, being a large brute, thinks he can take Megs out, but he never underestimates Megatron's cunning. Lugnut gets defeated and is just about to be executed, until he starts begging for mercy and claims his undying loyalty for him, should he ever be spared. Which Megatron does.
I am kind of a casual transformers fan who only watched some of the movies and Transformers Prime so I don't have a ton of Transformers knowledge and I am going through these comics for the first time.
This is why your videos are so knowledgeable to me and I really get to learn a lot.
I agree with a lot of the criticisms that you had with the art of it being way too detailed to the point where it feels convoluted and the colours being way too muted that being said the premise in my opinion was great.
I think the idea of Megatron being a revolutionary who lost his way later on is a fantastic way to add some complexity and layers to what was many would call a one dimensional villain. I loved how Chaos Theory followed up on this story and helped enhance it I just wish that Autocracy didn't retcon it.
Thanks, glad to hear you're getting something out of the videos! I agree, I think Chaos Theory really enhanced this series. And while I really like Autocracy, there's no denying that Megatron reverts back to type there. It's a cool story, but it does feel like a more classic approach to Megatron.
I'm a simple man. I see new MB3 video drop I go watch.
🤣 Thank you!
Been having a tough week , Moonbase3 to the rescue! 🙌🏽
Brad Owen's Poker vlog has the same affect on me man.. I recommend it for all shitty days! haha!.. You may not even be a fan of poker!.. Try not to look for the latest stuff. ;) .. But if you follow his journey chronologically on his channel.. You'll have many a nice comforting evening & experience! .. He's a real genuine dude!.. And watching him go from where he was to where he is.. Well, it's a story worth watching! . ;) ..
Sorry to hear that, man. I hope it starts to turn around for you! 🙌🏻
This channel is so underrated
Thanks! I appreciate that. 😄
Yo I love the new style of thumbnail MB3! Looks extra slick! The whole production value has shot up tremendously, it’s spectacular!
So Megatron Origin, this one has always been a bit mixed for me. It was my proper introduction to IDW’s TF universe, so in that way it’ll always be special for me in some regard. At the end of the day I prefer my Megatron to be one step removed from being the Devil. If he’s a magnificent bastard, he should be 95% bastard. That all said and putting those preferences aside, this is a good origin. I kind of wish Transformers did more novels because I think this would make for an excellent prose story. Reading Megatron’s thought process as he spirals into a warlord would be fascinating. I also think that sets up a great foundation for IDW Megatron going forward and allowed him to go in a totally unique direction. I grew up in Appalachia (closer to steel production than coal extraction but still), so Megatron being a worker pushed aside for the sake of greed really strikes a cord with me. I’m someone who wishes Transformers stories were waaaay more political, so I certainly appreciate that here.
Alex Milne is my favorite Transformers artist (and artists in general), but this still leans more Dreamwave than MtMtE which I don’t care for as much. Part of that is the coloring, because it’s a muddled mess here. I think the colors are worse in the IDW hardcovers, because here in the video they’re at least a bit cleaner whereas the collection is nigh unreadable.
Finally, I really appreciate how you format these retrospectives. I’ve been watched comic review videos since I was in grade school, and I’ve noticed that they’re generally about 4/5s synopsis 1/5 analysis (half of which is spent reassuring the viewer that different opinions can exist). Your videos on the other hand are the exact opposite, the vast majority of this runtime is spent examining the themes and history of the comic in question. It’s so much more interesting and engaging as a viewer. I say this with no hyperbole, you do the best reviews of comic books on UA-cam no contest (especially at this output). Every one of these videos is a treat. Fantastic work as always!!
Edit: Oh also I wanted to ask, do you have any plans for the 40th anniversary of the first issue of the Marvel run next month?
Thanks, man! That's high praise indeed! I'm touched. It's really moving to see people respond to what I'm doing here, so thank you again, brother! Much appreciated!
That's interesting that you mentioned that bit about the colors looking worse in the hardcover - I was genuinely surprised when I started editing the video and saw how much better the digital versions colors looked when enlarged. The problems are still there, for sure, but I agree that they (strangely) didn't seem as bad as they do in print.
I never considered a novel, but that's a great idea for a story like this! That would allow for the time and insight into seeing much more clearly how Megatron changed and became corrupted. Come to think of it, I'd love a series of novels devoted to the entire IDW timeline - kind of unify and harmonize the entire thing in terms of continuity and tone as well as fleshing out certain things that got cut short or really needed time to breathe.
I've been thinking about doing *something* for some component of the 40th anniversary of the brand and have had a few false starts in terms of ideas, but it's still at the conceptual stage at this point. I'm hoping to get something nailed down soonish...but I'll keep you updated!
Very enjoyable retrospective looking forward to more
Thank you!
Love the new intro 👍 and the coverage of this mini series was stellar, I had no idea the original idea was to make this arc at least 10 issues. Kinda makes sense since the Transformers franchise as a whole has a history of cramming big ideas into small story arcs. The biggest example I can think of is the original cartoon’s final season was supposed to be 6 to 10 episodes but the studio forced the writers to squash it down to 3 (Rebirth). You can tell the writers were definitely under the gun to rush this finale out but I think it was handled pretty well, especially since the season introduced the fan favourite concept of headmasters and incorporated fan favourite characters from the comics like Scorponok and Lord Zarrak
Thanks, man! And yeah, that's a great comparison to make with Rebirth. I definitely think things could have been better, but I also enjoy those final episodes quite a bit. I really wish we had gotten a full fourth season from Sunbow...it would have been awesome to see Peter Cullen's Optimus become Powermaster Optimus Prime!
@@Moonbase3 absolutely 👍, plus the series was left wide open with no real ending. Luckily a decade later Beast Wars did a good job to fill some of the gaps.
Oh, you can tell that the writer of Megatron Origin and Furman were not coordinated from something outside of misticism. In Megatron Origin, in the cops burial scene, you can see a pretty G1-style Elita-1 next to that Orion Pax fella. In many other pages, in the background, you can see female transformers entertaining Clench and other gladiators, or the rich in their air frigate later before Starscream makes it crash. How does that work with the infamous Spotlight Arcee?
Very true, although, to be fair, it's unclear if those characters were specifically detailed as such in Holmes' script that Furman looked at, or if Milne just added them of his own volition.
@@Moonbase3 retcon by lack of communication
Haha, exactly!
I've seen so many vids that do an actual deep dive into Megatron and his story in particular, but at the same time completely omit the added depth of his past given later in the series through MTMTE and Lost Light where you see things like him actually being friends with Impactor, him hiding under a table during a bar brawl out of fear, him doing his best to save and protect his injured friend/mentor, and even seeing the reasons behind his fears, the small hints at the bottled aggression and rage building up within him, and general distrust. Just things like that yk? I feel like it could be good as its own video if not a continuation of this one.
Definitely. The plan is to cover that stuff in detail when I get to the retrospective videos on MtMtE and Lost Light. There's a lot to talk about there, and to go over in regards to how it fits with what was set up in this series, so it'll be part of the phase two retrospectives.
with the new animated movie coming out this year this video makes sense
Can't say I planned it that way, but it does seem kinda appropriate! 😁
@@Moonbase3 and since thor himself is voicing orion aka young optimus i can not wait
I was surprised by that choice, but surprised in a good way! I think he'll do a good job.
@@Moonbase3 and the guy who played the guy form the matrix is voicing alpha Trion aslo
Heck yeah! Laurence Fishburne!
Id imagine that Furman's imput was similar to what Nick Roche has said he got for Spotlight: Kup, which was simple suggestions and opinions that can be taken or leaven. Roche said that Furman felt Kup should've died at the end of the Spotlight issue due to what Kup did to his fellow Autobots, so I'd guess that Furman's input was simply about character usage and the like.
That's a pretty good guess! You may be right about that.
Great work!!!
Thanks, I appreciate that!
The step up in editing is a welcome and fun addition. Once again, I hope this type of writing for Megatron is taken into TF One. I really hope the film is willing to serious but I'm not betting on it.
Thanks! And yeah, I'll be curious to see how they handle Megatron in TF One. I don't really know what to expect with that one, to be honest, but I'll give it a shot.
YAY you're back!
I am! Now I just need to get back on track with the Energon Universe videos! :)
I took the fader coloring yo be a sign of faded memory, like a record played grey. It's also how I see the not quite accurate depiction of Optimus/Optronix etc. Megatron is not a 100% reliable narrator, even when he isn't deliberately trying to deceive anyone. Maybe I'm overthinking it but that is the feeling I got from the faded colors and the small inconsistencies...
Cheers.
Interesting way of looking at it! I hadn't considered that. I like it!
5:44 - 5:48 Which is kinda fitting considering Fort Max's position in IDW.
True. Also interesting that similar design cues (and even naming convention) would be used again during Shadowplay with Pious Maximus. Seems like there might have been a lot of bots that looked that way prior to the war, which also pays tribute to the brand's tradition of multiple redecos.
I remember when i first read this comic i tought it was a prequel to the War Within series. Grimlock looks the same, Optimus looks the same, Megatron transforms into tank-thing, Ratbat is not a bat etc. The Spotlight: Shockwave comic was also confusing a little. I tought it was a short story for the Marvel TF timeline, but no. Shockwave fights in the new universe with the Dinobots on the prehystoric Earth AGAIN.😅
🤣 I can see how it would be confusing at times!
I gotta say there are people whom know they are evil and simply don't care.
Ive met someone terrible once, absolutely terrible. The things this person claimed to have done, and enjoyed with no regrets-
There are absolutely people who are just monsters. While our experiences may shape our paths, everyone decides who they wish to be.
If you willingly know you are in the wrong, and you refuse to change-
You are a monster, because you become one, once youve given up on trying to change to become a better person.
Sure, I wouldn't disagree with that. I think once you cross certain lines, you have a choice: stop and chase course, or take it even further. Megatron definitely chose the latter after he crossed the line of killing someone, but I think Holmes did a good job setting him up as someone who wasn't inherently evil prior to that event.
@@Moonbase3 I do wonder how this will fit into TFONE
Yeah, I'm curious what, if anything, will carry over
8:15 - 8:29 - 8:34/8:36 I think Earthspark may have alluded to Megatron being a miner & gladiator at some point.
I know in my TF headcannon, I connect a version of Earthspark with the Aligned continuity, mostly in regards to Megatron's redemption arc (after his long exile in space, he returns to Earth to atone for his actions).
I even asked Nicole Dubuc about it on Twitter and she seemed fine with my personal headcannon.
Nice! I still need to watch Earthspark. I'm interested, just haven't found the time yet.
21:37/21:40 For Straxus, that might represent one of his clones (he's no stranger to it).
For Monstructor, that might represent his Takara recolor, Dinoking (although why was it shown in their combined form, since they won't have access to it yet).
That's a clever point about Straxus! :) The Monstructor/Dinoking thing just doesn't seem to have an answer, both because of the combiner element and the scale involved. There was a point where I wondered if it was supposed to be Blot, as we see him later and he has kind of a similar chest design, but the head and face is different.
21:53 I know there might be an interesting explanation behind them in one of the Lost Light issues.
For me, I see them as unnamed generics.
Yeah, them being generics is kinda the only in-universe explanation for it at this point!
I didn't know Holmes worked on Arkham Origins, that nice to know (underrated game in eyes) I hear Megatron Oragin was set up a partner to War Within, to give a Megatron organs story to line cup with Optimus' origins story. the art of the series reminds me of the Cybertron shown in the movie tie comics Reign of Starscream, Defiance and Foundation. 17:35 to 18:45, 18:50 to 19:12 and 19:15 to 19:19:25 sums it nicely Megatron was an inevitable and necessary evil to combat backlash to Cybertron's corrupt government but in moving outward and striking worlds that did Cybertron no harm he turned his people into a people to be scored and reviled. we see in More Then Meets The Eye and Lost Light how with out Megatron Cybertron would have become a theocratic hell. Corruption ruins society and pave the way for chaotic anarchy like the Decepticons.
Definitely agree with your points here! And it's funny, I just re-read that storyline in MTMTE a few weeks back as I was considering mentioning it in the video! Really lays out how both the Cybertronian government and the Decepticons were both horrible, but in very different ways.
I should read those movie tie-in comics someday. I like the creative teams involved, so it seems like I would enjoy them for that if nothing else!
The biggest problem with doing comics and cartoons is the time it takes. If they want it done quickly, it takes multiple writers and artists. It takes time to coordinate between everyone which is something they don't have. It's something that plagued the original series too. Everything from having Autobots fighting beside Decepticons against the Autobots to having dead Transformers appearing later on as alive.
I agree that there was no real answer given to Megatron in G1. Everything pointed to someone who wanted complete power and that was all he saw.
In the new origins series, i see a Megatron who had a heart and grew cold in killing. He lost all emotions and he cut himself out of everything.
In other Transformers, Optimus and Megatron were brothers. They knew peace and cooperation as Decepticons and Autobots. Was this origins the same?
I think you're spot on about the lack of time given to comics. It's tough, because there are market demands and expectations, but it would be nice if there could be more time devoted to ensuring that each product was at a high standard.
As for your take on Megatron in this series, that's how I see this version of the character as well - almost like he just killed his old self and leaned hard into his new, angry, bitter persona.
Optimus and Megatron aren't brothers in this continuity, but later comics will establish that they have/had a bond and a complicated relationship that goes beyond just being mortal enemies.
@@Moonbase3 when looking at Megatron, you can use human physiology on him. For instance, you said that he regretted killing someone.
How much of his anger is at the enemy and how much is due to what he's done? In other words, he doesn't forgive himself for his actions. It is interesting how news comics are closer to real life than ever.
One thing about writing perfectly and drawing it perfectly. Price. How much writing and art can be done for a profit?
I've been watching your vids for a bit.. Just subscribed.. Where is this on the IDW playlist.. Do I need to watch any others, outside of the excellent playlist I've seen to get it? .. Excellent work sir! ;)
Thanks for the sub and the kind words - I appreciate it! I try to make these videos relatively self-contained, but the previous videos might provide some additional context. My IDW playlist should be up to date and have everything you need so far - work in progress, obviously. :) I'm working on something that will hopefully make the order for this videos a bit more clear, but that's a ways off yet. In the meantime, I hope that answered your question and feel free to ask if you have any others!
I always assumed what was cut from Origins by Simon was stuff relating potential Optimus having a minor role or War Within style council.
As Spotlight Optimus has Optimus be shocked that a Prime could be evil. So maybe Optimus was going to be a member of the force that hunted Megatron. So, Simon removed that in order to keep the idea that Primes were pure good in Optimus’s eyes consistent.
The War Within style Council I could see it existing alongside the senate. But they exist as a religious body, and use their influence to keep support for the corrupt senate.
After all remember the timeframe this comic was published.
Now there's an interesting thought about Optimus! Good idea - I hadn't considered that, but it seems so obvious now that you point it out. Man, I would love to take a look at the notes or early drafts for this series...
And I agree with you about the council, I could see that fitting in here. Especially with the flashback in #10 of the Dreamwave series, it had to be on the table at some point...
What about that big, beautiful, blue sunflower 🌻 head of “hair” Megs has @33:43 in this series? 😍
It's magnificent! 😂
Its kinda interesting that one of your critiques for this series is that the colors are a bit too washed or dull. That was one of the major issues with the 2010 War For Cybertron game.
The lack of color was a major focus for its sequel. It makes you kinda wonder if this is an artistic decision or if the creative teams surrounding transformers struggle with the color palate of transformers world building.
Oh, man, that's a great point about WFC - I totally forgot about that! I've often wondered if it's an intentional thing. The franchise has always been extremely colorful, so I wouldn't be surprised if in trying to reinvent it as more "serious" or "mature" the creative teams thought it would be best to tone down the colors somewhat.
Do you think you’ll ever do a video like this for the marvel era of comics
Maybe! I'd like to do something for the Marvel era, but it would be a ways off until I get there.
I prefer his older back story as a maniacal genocidal madman. Its very hard to take him seriously in IDW after he becomes 100x worse than the Senate or Nova Prime ever was.
Seriously, Megatron did the same shit all of the other villains did. But he gets a redemptiom arc after killing a shitzillion organics and cybertronians?
Fair enough. I know later developments were pretty divisive. Personally, reading this stuff after being obsessed with the X-Men as a kid might have made me more receptive to it, as it seemed to me like a more extreme version of what Chris Claremont tried to do with Magneto. That's just me, though. But yeah, I would struggle to ever feel sympathy for someone like Megatron in real life, so I can see where you're coming from there.
Also, "shitzillion" is a new one to me and pretty great! 😂
It’s admittedly easier to have Megatron be an undeniable bad guy rather than someone with sympathetic origins. I mean, look at him in IDW 2019. He’s basically a Neo-Imperialist who wants to return to the old days and is willing to use means such as a terrorist group to legitimize his political party. Megatron always is someone who conquers others, so it can be a bit confusing how a revolutionary fighting for equality goes on to become the biggest expert on genocide in the galaxy. I mean the Decepticons pretty much lose the righteousness of their cause as soon as Megatron betrayed Orion Pax after killing Zeta Prime. Yet for millions of years they act like they’re still fighting that same conflict. While I can understand the perspective of the humans and NAILS, it can feel really unfair how they treat the Autobots and Decepticons as equals.
Personally I like to see a Transformers story where the Autobots and Decepticons are actually two separate nations on Cybertron. This division happens because long ago the 13 Primes divided into two groups, groups that would become the modern nations. The Fallen lead those who would become the Decepticons and the Arisen would lead the ancestors of the Autobots. Say Solus Prime was the first casualty as a neutral trying to keep the peace.
That war ended with the Arisen slaying the Fallen and becoming the last Prime, but he spares the common bots who followed his enemies because they can’t assimilate back with his people peacefully, so he lets them forge a separate nation. By modern day we have the democratic Autobot Commonwealth and the authoritarian Decepticon Empire with each Prime after the Arisrb trying to reunite the two societies.
Let’s say Megatron and Orion Pax are friends despite being two different nationalities. It’s a sign that the two nations are close to actually reuniting. Then through trickery and deceit, Megatron kills the Emperor of Destruction, leader of the Decepticons, and frames the murder on the Autobots. The Great War breaks out, the Autobot government falls and Orion becomes the next Prime.
Bam, a story involving politics, a bit of nuance, but keeps true to the usual way the story goes.
Good points on Megatron!
I've often thought about what kind of new start I would want to see or even how I would set up a Transformers story if I was given a fresh canvas to work with, and I usually come back to the Autobots and Decepticons as separate nations, so I may be a little biased, but I really like your idea. :) I never came up with the amount of detail you did for how that would actually work, though, so props for the thought you put into it. I like it and would definitely read a story with a setup like that! 💯
@@Moonbase3 I get why IDW 1 gets a lot of praise, but it can feel like the writers never intended to have the Autobots become popular in universe. NAILS distrust both factions and never really acknowledge how bad of an idea it is to elect Starscream as leader of Cybertron while humanity and other organic races are hostile to all Transformers until the Unicron arc. Even when Earth joins the Council of Worlds, it seems like 99.99% of humanity is still anti-Transformer. It makes me wish they chose to have Verity Carlo stick to the main Autobots instead of joining the Wreckers. Humanity just seems like they accept that Earth will be caught up in alien affairs instead of realizing the Autobots are the good guys. Would it kill for a human to apologize for their anti-Transformer racism?
During First Strike, no one ever seems to acknowledge how the roles have switched with humanity now invading Cybertron and the Cybertronians imprisoning the humans who want to help them. Scarlett goes on about wanting to stop Joe Colton from leaving behind a legacy of genocide, but given what we see from Flint, the president, Spike, and many other humans, most of Earth would praise Joe.
Do you think at some point you can review some of the Dreamwave Transformers comics.
I definitely want to at some point! I'm not sure when it'll happen, but it's for sure something I'd like to cover.
I liked thf story but it took.me a hatd time to.figure out who.was what
1:35 That was basically the Autocracy Trilogy
Tools of powerplay?
**cue guitar solo**
One con Revolution is another bot terrorism
Very true! 🤣
It was a shame rhat in the new transformers one movie they planted a large part of megatrons origin into orion pax ....and almost all minors were future to be autobots
33:38 I still to this day don't get what the fuck this is underneath his helmet. If confused me so much as a kid. Is it hair?? Ears?? What the fuck are those??
🤣 I always thought it was like the frill of the Dilophosaurus from Jurassic Park, but I have no Idea
State games was my shit wh3n I was 5-6. Set the tone for my favorite megs and sunstreaker obsession. I'm lucky to have read pretty much everything that's ever been written for tf. Got a close personal friend who owns the entirety of g1 and restores box art. Always been a excellent source for anything and everything. If he had a channel.... there wouldn't be a need for any others, lol
IDW created a truly great Megatron...until some of the later writers decide to give him a [Spoiler Redacted].
🤣 IDW definitely did some controversial stuff with the character. I generally enjoy it, but I know it really rubbed some people the wrong way.
@@Moonbase3 Like I get what they were trying to do...but Megatron was basically the Robot Version of H1tler in the first IDW continuity...and I don't think any kind of "H1tler" should get a "second chance" so to speak. It's actually amazing & kind of pathetic how hard IDW tried to make Megatron less of a villian towards the end of their first continuity. I mean having Shockwave be "Lord of Science & Logic" is cool because Shockwave is Awesome (& there is actually a precedent for that)...but when you start trying to push characters like Tarn & Overlord & even a random Autobot like Getaway (Who I actually agreed with about Megatron) as villains it just feels wrong...at least it does to me.
Sure, and I can understand where you're coming from on that. Making Megatron sympathetic at that point in the timeline is a very tough sell. Personally, I can roll with stuff like that in fiction, but there's no way I could sympathize with someone like Megatron in real life, so your feelings on it make total sense to me. It was definitely not a decision that would work for everybody, and even though I was generally good with it, there were things about it that didn't always work for me. Like you, I also thought Getaway and the mutineers were justified in taking issue with Megatron being on the ship and I had mixed feelings on the stuff with Getaway overall, though I do have to say that his arc in Lost Light is kind of similar to Megatron's journey in Origin, just on a much smaller scale - starting out "in the right" but then taking things too far and going to increasingly extreme lengths to accomplish his goals. So I can at least appreciate that aspect, even if I didn't always love the execution.
I want to point something out here. Looking at this and looking at the government we have now here in the US.. well, it's honestly terrifying to see the IMMENSE and NUMEROUS parallels. They system of the high up stay in power and those beneath them, the working classes get poorer and weaker and have no real rights or ways to change them.. that's not just the cybertronian government, that's literally straight up communism. Social engineering in the most literal sense to cybertronians, for us, it's the US government allowing the Chinese communist party to have a foothold in New York and many MANY more things yet to come I fear. You can say this is conspiracy all you want, but the ACTIONS of those I speak of are practically SCREAMING at us at this point, much less speaking louder than their honeyed and evil words. Nonetheless, megatron origin is still one of the BEST comics of the last 25 years, hands down!