Violin Teacher Sued for Scamming Student?
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- Опубліковано 25 чер 2022
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TwoSet: At $700, you’re pretty much guaranteed a bad violin.
Me: *covering my $600 violin’s ears* Shhh, shhh, it’s ok, I love you, anyway…
That statement and similar statements about violin price/quality are quite honestly pure unadulterated BS. In reality, the price/quality connection is affected by a lot of things, chief among them is where your violin is originally from, and how much it'd cost you to have your violin modified/upgraded professionally. Same with cheap/expensive violin comparison videos, you never see them attach the same strings to both violins for example. I say this as someone who owns two violins in the few-thousand-dollars range and two others in the few hundred dollar range. I've lived in both NA and the ME, where Luthiers charge radically different amounts for what are essentially the same services.
Me clutching my $300 violin
My four fine tuners cry after every video. But I should probably be practicing anyway. 😜
@@shainamallison Nothing wrong with four fine tuners! Anyone making your tuners cry is a snob, pure and simple. 😉
me
I used to work at a music store, and a customer once wanted to return a violin because they broke a string. Direct quote “I knew I shouldn’t have bought a used violin.” My response “you know, the best violins in the world are used violins.” They hung up on me
@violamateo why wouldn't they think that? that's what the teacher is supposed to teach
@@violamateo I'm not a violin player. I didn't know that.
I know that, but only cause I leaned it when I was little playing the guitar
I don't know why those Strads they played in Singapore were so expensive; they are really used. Brett's was some hand me down from some poor, ragged 'empress of Russia,' (last i checked Russia was even around then, it was just established after the USSR, duh) Super-used!! Can they not afford new ones? I think they got ripped off and shoulda gone with new violins for their performance. I'm surprised the really old, really used violins made it through an entire Mendelssohn performance and didn't break. It was made in 1708 which is like before they had computers to make violins better.
Seriously, to play and be around the Strad that belonged to Catherine the Great, one of the wealthiest and major world leaders of recent history would be surreal. The enlightened despot, herself. That is some provenance and it makes beautiful music, too which is a +1
I thought similar for a long while, and they got crappier and crappier, and little metal bits started to flake away💀. TELL UR STUDENTS ABOUT REPLACING STRINGS PLEASE
When I saw the thumbnail for this video, I was kind of shocked- this is actually my (former) violin teacher from middle/high school 🥴 I never thought about it at the time but he had my parents buy a violin and bow (separately, mind you) for about $1k each? Thinking about it now I can't/wouldn't say if it was worth the money, but the way he sold it, he was very insistent that it had a great quality and that's why it was worth the money. But I definitely don't think it would be worth going to court for (least of all on Judge Judy LOL)
Probably unrelated, but I thought he was a good teacher otherwise from the prices of the violin/bow ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯ Still gave my heart a shock to see him on Judge Judy and TwoSet LMFAO
Wow! Hope more people notice your comment! When I upgrade in a year or two, I'll be taking someone reputable and knowledgeable with me.
But just thinking about the price: He put strings on it and had to make sure the violin is good to play (guarantee, it could break whilst transported and she wouldn't see it). He dedicated time as well and put a profit on it. when he bought the violin for 500 + strings 50 (or less/more just an estimation), the guarantee would be 50 as well if you buy it in a store and a profit 100. It is a lot I give you that, but it is money you pay cause you didn't want/do your research... she doesn't even say why it is not that good or had an appraisal... it is a cheap violin anyways so how can you as a beginner judge how good it should be? she could have refused it when she got it, as you would in the store...
@@Kaugummi25 The fact he couldn't give a receipt was intEresTiNg though. Bet he didn't pay that much for it! I recently accidentally binned a receipt for a fridge-freezer I bought online. I'm so used to having (and keeping) paper receipts for important purchases so just binned the electronic one. When it came to a problem with the fridge-freezer I was able to provide a screen shot of my purchase via PayPal which sufficed as it had all the details on it. I'm sure he could have found another way if he actually didn't have the receipt! Sounds like he's trying to make a fast buck and take advantage of new violinists who have little or no knowledge about this instrument. It's akin to buying a car if you know nothing about engines, service history and mechanics. You take someone with you who does and whom you can trust so the dealer can't rip you off!
bow for $1k! i got my bow for like $100 while my violin was wayy more thats some gourmet organic gmo free bow you have
idk bcos another comment says "I was on one of these shows playing the defendant (as an actor)! I don't think I'm legally allowed to tell you which show I was on since I signed a contract - but basically all of these shows are fake except for Judge Judy (apparently). All that the actors get are the character you are to play and why you are being sued/suing. Everything else is improvised! The whole process was incredibly fun. No one knows who is going to win their case until the 'judge' decides. I worked really hard to defend my character's case, but in the end, I lost (LOL)!" so like r they not actors then or what
You could spend $100K on a $5 violin and have no grounds to sue the seller.
The only way she would've stood a chance is if she could prove that there was a difference in what the seller told her what she'd get and what she actually got, like if the seller told her the violin was maple instead of plywood, and even that would require at the very least:
1. Showing the court some kind of documentation (whether it be a receipt, ebay listing, audio recording, or something else)
2. Expert verification that the description doesn't match the product
He promised her "a violin" and she got one. Case closed. Was she scammed? I suppose thats a matter of perspective. But legally, no foul.
Nope. $100k on a $5, or even $1k violin is grounds to sue. The contract needs to be *conscionable* - that means the price must be reasonable in relation to the value. If you have a written contract that alliterates you are aware that the violin's market value is $1k, but due to, say, emotional attachment, historical value or some other factors you're still willing to pay $100k, then there is no case. If you were wrongly convinced this violin's market value is around $100k, based on, say, expert's mistake in appraisal, and the seller was well aware of ripping you off, you totally have a case.
Here though, even if the violin is a chinese $100 crap, 7x markup isn't completely unreasonable.
This isn't a lawsuit anyways, this is arbitration, where legal standing does not matter
Not sure about USA, but if he told her that he paid 700 dollars for the violin but didn’t, wouldn’t that be a fraud?
And in europe the laws would be on her side, bc the man is considered a professional with more information than her so he should always inform the buyer of stuff she should know before they sign the contract.
@@Meye55 If he said he paid $700 that might be a fraud. If he said the violin is worth $700, that likely would fly, especially with $100 strings which Judge Judy dismissed out of hand - Especially if he "knows the right people" to buy the violin below market value. And in Europe the court would take more time and review the case much more thoroughly, specifically there would be a better track record of the purchase because pulling a bank statement with the amount paid is a breeze. And as a violin teacher he would inform her - hopefully truthfully - that this violin is sufficient for her at her current skill level and reasonable value. Better ones can be bought for $300 but you really need to have the luck, knowledge and time to find the right bargain, and lacking one of these you may end up with a piece of rubbish, so if she wants a reasonable violin in a reasonable timeframe, $700 is it. She, on the other hand, would need an expert opinion stating this violin is not nearly worth $700.
Even Judge Judy knows to go to the music store🤣. She even knows how to hold the violin better then the fake players
everything in that show is fake, she's not even a judge, you know that right?
Sis wot
@@el_equidistante that’s not true, she is a judge lmao
@@makefunofme4116 she’s an arbitrator which is basically a private judge
@@Skullemojiiii An arbitrator is a poor substitute for a proper judge. There are very, very few rules that arbitrators have to follow. In this case, she completely ignored the objection that the defendant claimed that he paid $700 for the violin and couldn't even be bothered to ask whether or not t the defendant had claimed to be selling it at a profit or not. It's important as if he claimed he was selling it at cost, that's a very different matter from providing a violin for the $700 paid. By that line of reasoning anything that's technically a violin would fulfill the contract and her lack of interest in the details was somewhat concerning.
Ebay keeps 3 years of history on purchases, so he's lying when he says he can't get a "receipt"
Exactly. Which means he likely paid $69 for it. 🤪
That doesn't look like a $69 violin to me. Looks like a $499 one (so not very good). But yeah, story seems odd, you can't look through your credit card history? You can't look through you ebay account? Yeah right. But I do give some creedance that most people dont know how to use the internet at all. I'd say it would be a bigger problem if it mattered to the case at all. But you can really mark things up as much as you want.
A little tip for Judge Judy. Arbitration is different from an actual court case, which is why her show has a lot of different rules. Yes, the cases have to be "real" in order to make it on the show, but each person receives an appearance fee out of a $5000 prize pool. Any "judgements" of payment she makes are also paid out of that same prize pool. You can tell when something truly serious comes up, because Judy will dismiss the case without prejudice, offer the recording of the show to one of the two parties, and urge them to take the case to real court, or even the authorities if it's a criminal matter.
So the defendant loses nothing, only gains, by showing up? :o
@@destyniiskywalker Aside from some public humiliation and maybe a couple of days of work, nobody is out any money.
What flag is your picture?
@@jomana1109 no like a lgbtq flag maybe
@@kharris56 it's the gay male pride flag.
One of my trusted sources for violin information is Olaf's channel. His guidelines on what to look for when buying a new instrument is really helpful!
P.S.- It's been quite long, Twoset should collab with Olaf maybe on this same topic!
They did. Eddy and Brett went to Olaf to save the poor violin-chan before =)
If can scam slowly, you can scam quickly
Getting a notification for a TwoSet video whilst watching TwoSet videos is now a regular experience (now that the Pink T debacle is over) and I am not mad about it! 🧡
fr
Lol same here
@@toothfairy5779 living the best TwoSetter life :)
That's my everyday life for the last few years. 😅
It appears that I'm not uncultured and oblivious to this ”Pink T” situation. Would you be kind enough to fill me in?
Brett: $700 for a violin, you’re almost guaranteed a pretty bad violin.
*Looks at my $400 violin💀* It’s okay violin-chan, I still love you❤️
I have a $165 violin that came with A lot of extra things and it came with a tuner and a book
@@soup7693 The violin is probably worth $60 alone
Cool - really? Oh god it sounds fine compared to my teachers $700 one. And my teacher said it was FinE
@@soup7693 are you a beginner? Also is it from Amazon? Theres nothing wrong with getting a cheaper violin at start, but when you start getting better, you will see that your starting to fight against your instrument, and eventually get a better one.
Cool - yea that’s probably why my violin / piano teacher’s like this is fine for now
I know there are bad music teachers out there that are only in it for the money. I noticed the stricter they are, the higher the expectations they have of their students, the less they're willing to vary their prices. My music tutor recorded every single of my practice sessions with him and didn't expect me to play anything perfectly, but to show improvement at every lesson. Some of his critiques made me feel like crying as he could tell whenever I skipped practice. Every year, he'd show me recordings of my playing and pointed out my mistakes in some areas and praised my consistent improvement in others. After 4 years of lessons, I offered to pay him more as I can see how huge the difference was over the years, but he flat out refused saying that the students' effort outside of class made the difference and he was merely there offering a consultation on his area of expertise. Mad respect.
Yeah often the stricter teachers/coaches/anything will push harder and make a more severe improvement. This is true for most situations-it also applied to when I was in competitive sports. I play cello but by the time I was in high school I knew I didn’t want to pursue it in college so my more lax teacher was perfect for me. Not to say he wasn’t great and I wasn’t a serious player: I got into some very competitive orchestras or first chair in the less so. But if I was like “I want to play Halloween music” or whatever he was chill. He just pushed me in whatever I chose to do
I love how you appreciate your teacher and understand the strictness - too many snowflakes these days (parents and cottonwool kids created by these parents) who think the teacher is unacceptably harsh for having standards. Students (not just of music) need guidelines and guidance in order to learn and develop and nothing comes without a lot of hard work and effort. Kudos all to teachers and students who persist and endure.
If you are getting paid, even a dime, you are in it for the money, otherwise you would donate your time and labor.
@@billh2029 nope, trying to survive does not mean you are in it for the money.
I gotta add that I’ve had 3 teachers (due to moving) and one was so strict made me cry after lessons a lot but I learned more from him in a year than i did with the others in 5 years. I would go back to him if i could.
The cases are real...if you understand this is a legal process called arbitration. Both sides agree to have the judge settle their dispute which is still cheaper than if they took this to small claims court and fought it out. It's still a reality tv trope where the judge builds up the tension prior to reaching a decision.
Was scrolling to look for this comment exactly. The case has already been settled before they go on air and they've already been paid. She just dramatizes the arbitration with both of the people present. Makes for good dramatic TV. This is why she's so damn rich.
@@SISMNTB I think literally about $50 million a year.
@@chelsearoses22 wouldn't be surprised. She fully owns her TV show and the syndication rights as well. Meaning she shops it around to whoever she wants for the most amount of money.
@@SISMNTB True. And has her new show on Amazon Prime. A lot of money.
Welcome to tv law in the USA. The only winner is brashness.
I'd love to hear what the defendant actually did on top. He was starting to explain that he changed the strings. If those are good strings, they are over $100. Changing strings is a service that in itself costs money at a lot of violin stores, let's say $25. Did he also sell a case, a bow, did he rehair the bow? If you deduct this from $700, he made a really small profit...
Most likely, yes a set up. But he reduced the price of the violin to 500$ so if the judge demands a refund for the violin, then he can keep his is in shop earning he probably offered more affordably to her.
Yeah, I was thinking similar. He got his student a good violin, fixed it up and sold it basically at cost to her. What a horrible person to then complain about it!
If he paid $499 for the violin he really didn't make that much off it. The woman is an idiot she could go to the store and get a violin for $499 and the store probably made more off the cheaper one than this guy did. She clearly doesn't understand how business works.
Yeah, who knows what else he got. Case, strings set up, postage etc, I doubt he was making a huge cut lol
I am really lucky to have a nice piano teacher. Offered him a higher pay since it was already quite low but he refused it.
Yea, I once had a university professor as a teacher who, along with her husband, offer 1 hour lessons for $15. And they don't want more, either
$15?!! Bloody hell, nice!
@@dvegan314 such great folks fr
The defendant had started to explain additional improvements he made to the violin before sending it to the plaintiff, but he got cut off by the judge. He had put different strings on it, at least, and I suspect had done several other things such as perhaps trimming or even replacing the bridge, planing the fingerboard, adjusting the sound post, and other similar modifications that are often needed when buying an eBay violin (speaking from experience). Such modifications are worth the extra money and can vastly improve the playability of such a violin. Fortunately, in this case those details were not necessary to explain to the judge.
I agree
Yeah, and the plaintiff said he said he paid 700 dollars, but while it's true he didn't for the violin itself, he might have if you add those modifications. But even then, he is allowed to sell for a profit, so it's irrelevant. If he actually tried to deceive her, that's another story, but she still cannot really prove it unless she recorded it or something (though I don't know much about the laws on this, especially in the US).
Always remember that morality and legality are different things.
It was immaterial to the case, since the plaintiff was suing under a breach of contract without providing that contract, showing she did her due diligence, and and was delivered a violin that met the conditions of the sales contract. What he did before doesn't matter. Now, if she had done her due diligence and had evidence that demonstrated the violin didn't meet the contact, I could see where what the seller did to the instrument before selling it to the plaintiff would matter. This was a very open and shut case. Had it gone to a real court, I suspect the seller's lawyers would have had the case dismissed with prejudice (Meaning can't be retried, only appealed.) for a lack of standing. This case should have never seen the inside of a courtroom, hence it found itself on Judge Judy.
@@Mercure250 The US (on the federal level) and the States that make up the US generally go by a set of laws called the Uniform Commercial Code. The UCC regulates trade and sales. While the UCC does offer consumers some measure of protection, it generally treats most transactions under the idea of "Buyer Beware". Sales disputes will mostly be treated as contract disputes within contract law, bringing in the concept of the "Four Corners" Doctrine. If it's not within the four corners of the pages of the contract, it's not part of the contract. Hence all the stories of car salespersons promising the moon, only to find the customer didn't get those promises because they were not written anywhere in the contact.
I hope this helps. NO, I'm not a lawyer. I just play one in my head. (I read and watch a lot of legal content. For this stuff, I'd recommend Steve Lehto.)
I agree. A setup charge is not unreasonable. His profit margin is not outrageous if the violin cost $500. This lady is a salt miner.
Music and law finally collides?? 😂 Loved this as a law student.
Fun fact: in Australia there's something called the Australia Consumer Law, and one of the sections allows a buyer to sue the seller if the seller misled the buyer.
If the woman had argued about what misleading statements the seller made and how it influenced her decision to purchase the violin, she might actually have an actual cause of action (though just from the video it seems unlikely).
(Real lawyers plz correct me I'm only a student I know nothing lol)
I was also wondering whether the man's action could fall under Misrepresentation. Apparently, the Man told the lady that he bought it for $700 (though it was not corroborated in this case) and that could have affected the decision of the other party. (I am a sleep-deprived law student as well correct me if I'm wrong lol)
I'm a lawyer. I don't know anything about Australian law, though. But I don't think she was misled. $200 is not a lot of money when it comes to violin prices. He said he bought it for $499 and then changed the strings, which are also expensive. He could've said he charged a commission for his expertise, he provided a service for her for something she couldn't have done on her own as a beginner. He took the time to select the violin, bid for it, charged it to his card, received the product, bought the strings, changed them, and tuned the instrument. She payed for his advice, the changing of the strings, the tuning. Also, she didn't look for a second opinion for a product that is easy to get elsewhere, which is a failure in buyer's due diligence, as judge Judy said. I don't think he did it in bad conscience.
yep! manufacturer’s liability i think, and most prominently i remember donoghue v stevenson
@@asliceofjackie91 a question from an average person. What if there is no evidence of the fact that the teacher told her what the purchase price is, and now it's a he says she says situation, maybe because it was verbal between two parties only. I assume there is no way to hold the teacher accountable at all, even under consumer protection laws?
Fix copyright/sampling law then. That's a whole bucket of worms where corpos pay lawyers to act like music experts to charge people like Ed Sheeran 100x over.
p.s. this consumer law you discuss is equated with fraud in the US. I'm shocked judy simplified the contract to "he promised a violin" when the fact of the matter was that he promised a violin of certain quality, insisted he bought it for her because he "knows the seller well" when he literally bought it on auction on ebay and doesn't have receipts, and stated he paid a certain amount for it which he is deliberately omitting because there is no way that was a $500 violin.
on top of this, a teacher is not entitled to behave like a salesman when they are supposed to be trusted mentors. scamming someone is a betrayal which is also grounds to prove that the lessons themselves were never intended to be anything but income.
Judge Judy never beats around the bush: baited the facts out of this violin teacher with just a few questions. Judge Judy to the buyer: Hey, everyone's gonna eat, & making a little profit it's not illegal. Take your violin and go home.
@@londongael414 Judge Judy thinks she's great herself, lol.
@@londongael414 Wow I'm surprised well said.
7:13 Olaf would call it a VSO, a violin shape object lol
And YES 8:35 a video about how to pick a nice violin would be great! And since you guys are back in Australia, it would be great to film again with Olaf!! I miss him in your videos!!
it doesnt look too bad tho i mean i have seen uglier violins which cost more but of course what matters is how it sounds
Moral of the story: stand up for yourself at the time because if your are in court you are probably too late
The moral is don’t scam your violin students
@@M_SC The moral is educate yourself.
so true Quill Clock 👋
@@M_SC it wasn't a scam! His time and the additional materials he bought to fix up the violin are worth something. It means he made a tiny, if any, profit on the sale to her.
Damn the judge is scary. My introverted self could never when she said "don't look down while speaking". Fierce interrogation except this is an actual interrogation in an actual court with all eyes on you.
I think the: dont look down while speaking, could be her saying: dont look at the proof and say it along with it. Say it yourself
So... your introvert feeling dont have to be afraid, its fine if you look down, cause you are nervous
Nooo you just getting nervous so then you look down
Looking down or turning head away while speaking means the person is lying. Besides, body language is important, thus she prolly just wanted to watch his expression while speaking.
It is not an "actual court". It is a tv-series.
Although participants sign an agreement that they consider the verdict binding. That is called arbitration. In that sense they are real plaintiffs, as that disclaimer states.
But still, they take part voluntarily, so they know what they get into. (Unless the lady never watched another episode, just like she never visited another music store.)
She’s a bully so she relates to the bully scammer teacher
With shipping, new strings, and time spent on properly setting the violin up, i could see $200 being a reasonable markup. He seemed to be going into that when he got cut off, even if he was totally shady about the receipts. But she def should have done due diligence, and probably renting a better violin would have been wiser.
Me a non-musician Law student watching Twoset: FINALLY something I can understand
1:13 "$700 for a violin, you are almost guaranteed a bad violin." TwoSet, I love your channel, but I strongly disagree with this statement. Certainly what you get for $700 is not a professional instrument, but that kind of money should get you a very decent student instrument. I paid $500 for my first violin outfit, and my teacher told me that it was a decent quality instrument. I didn't want to pay more than that, because I never played violin before and I wasn't absolutely sure I would stick with it. I didn't want to pay much less, because I don't think that you can get a properly set-up violin for much less. I bought it from a reputable online violin store. It was set up properly, and my teacher thought it had a good warm sound. Really guys, do you expect a beginner to be paying thousands of dollars for their first violin? And 10 months later, I am still practicing with it, and getting better and better. I am now able to play simple tunes, and I look forward to many more years of practice and learning. Yes, I will upgrade it at some point, but for now it is still serving me well.
Yeah, you can get a decent violin for $500. That's normal for a beginner.
Agree with you; my story mimics yours but in my case I went down the rental route (which incidentally is very reasonable). Mine is valued at £700 which is a bit more than yours but I too have a lovely violin that I'll upgrade at some point. I'm 9 months in btw.
yeah 500 bucks is an alright beginners violin, but definitely not enough for someone who is at an intermediate level
@@MicukoFelton this why you join the piano gang
I find this statement difficult. So, a family with four kids might say, nah, you cannot take violin lessons, because we could never afford a decent instrument for all of you!
While in reality, lots of people play on $700 violins for years without missing anything!
That lady should have watched Twoset before buying a violin. She wouldn't have get scammed that easily.
Fun fact: Judge Judy had a reputation for being tough and harsh when she was a Manhattan family court judge (before she became a TV personality; yes, she was an actual lawyer then judge). The harshness here isn’t theatrics - a quick search on UA-cam would return results on how she handled situations in the family court courthouse.
TwoSetViolin and Judge Judy is the crossover I never knew I needed
exactly!!!
I got a nice student violin for $110. I was lucky, but it retailed for around $300 - $400 new. When it came time for an upgrade I was ready to spend $2,000. I'm an amateur hobbyist when it comes to the violin. I get a great sound from my violin and my teacher feels it's a good violin. Cost is not as important as sound, condition and playability.
As a law student. In my country, the judge can’t verify the balance of the contract. As she said, a contract is an agreement between at least two people. As long as the people agree, while knowing about all the necessary information, which are often only the price and the object, the contract is valid. The only three ways of getting out of the contract, at least if both parties are capable adults, are : if one contractant deliberately lied or hid important information, if they used violence in order to form the contract, or if one contractant discovers some information they could not have known about the object that would lead them not to buy it ( this doesn’t include the price of the object, as the judge said, it’s normal to try to make as much profit as possible).
In this case, the woman could have known of the price easily, had she researched a bit, the man did not lie about the product, and he didn’t force her to buy it. That was a really easy case, which is most likely why it was used in this show. Hard cases are less entertaining to people who don’t have a law background
I watched this Judge Judy episode just yesterday and immediatly thought about this serious Twoset video Brett and Eddy made about shaddy violin shops recommanded by violin teachers which were selling "overpriced not so good violins" to the trustful students, how it was just all a business between the shops and the teachers !!!!! 😮😮 And it was kind of scammy because the teachers and the violin shops made the students believe the violins were worth way more than they actually did on the market (haha even checked the comments section to look for twosetters around there 😅)
Judge Judy: That's a viola. $700 to the plaintiff, dismissed!
Thats about the only way the plaintiff could win that case.
ignorance and laziness combined are expensive
naivety can be also ignorance
Ignorant people don't know they don't know the things.
7:36 I held my breath just to wait for Eddy's verification of GDAE right after Judge Judy strummed the violin.
Three things I think every buyer should do, regardless of the potential purchase, is educate themselves about the product, the sellers, and to take a specialist of the product with you. But very few I sold used pianos to did any of those things. Instead some would depend on my "playing" and opinion of a piano they liked. Fortunately for these purchasers the company I worked for was extremely dependable and guaranteed their instruments.
Brett & Eddy: violin
the subtitle: violent/violence
I can confirm from across this computer screen that that was indeed a violin.
For a cheap violin it seems to be made out of quite nice wood. 7:12 Flamed back, clear spruce grain on the front. The real VSOs don't look like that.
agree
Notification received right after I step out of my home.
*I immediately rush back inside, take off my shoes and open the video*
Judge Judy doesn't care about your feelings. She only cares about contracts.
re 8:35: Given you both have inspired countless people to learn the violin (myself included!) it would be awesome to have you guys share your tips on choosing a starter/intermediate violin, esp for those who haven't found a trusted teacher/are self learning .
The biggest problem the buyer had was putting trust in an instructor who she didn't know alot about. She assumed and trusted that he was an authority on violins. The first red flag was him arguing with her about the price and trying to deter her from shopping around. So he basicly subtlety bullied and gaslit her and it cost her 700 dollars.
She lost because she bought a violin. The instructor now has to deal with what ever she will say about him in a review so that people in that area who are looking for an instructor will see her review. He has put his reputation and potentially his ability to get more clients at risk because of this.
The lesson here is as a consumer do your homework throughly without letting on your looking to buy. Keeps you from becomming a target for getting scammed. For the instructor treat your clients like how you would want to be treated if you were on the recieving end and you'll protect your reputation as an instructor and continue to be hired as an instructor.
It didn't cost her $700 because the violin wasn't worthless. Maybe she overpayed $100. Maybe $200. Maybe $400. We just do not know because we do not have enough information about what would be a fair price for the violin. It could even have been a fair price even if she could have bought it for $499 herself if she had known where it was sold.
The thing is, Just because you don’t know anything doesn’t mean you deserve to be scammed. You admit it’s bullying and scamming. So, it’s on him. Not her.
@@M_SC I agree no one deserves to be scammed. The responsibility to keep from falling victim to that is on the consumer. So they both carry responsibility just in different ways. She had the choice to trust her initial misgivings and the choice to shop around just as he had the choice to be honest and not scam her. They are both responsible for their choices.
Sadly many product reviews are fake reviews posted by sellers, and sellers manage to remove genuine reviews.
@@mudswallow5074 while that does happen because of ease of access due to the internet, that isn't the only way to get reliable information. And because there are biased reviews due to what you mentioned those reviews can only be part of what is entailed in the homework part for the consumer. An instrument is an investment and because it is that it's worth doing the homework beyond just trusting the word of an instructor who argues against you doing that and tries to convince you that you should just trust them and buy an instrument from them. That is a huge red flag.
I paid $2,000 for my violin (actually it was at the same time brett & Eddy visited Curtis & I purchased down the street). I think I was just excited to get one and was impulsive. My teacher said it was good to buy, but she is an acquaintance of the maker. And at my last lesson I think she forgot what she said before and told me that I’ll need a new violin. …………….. sigh
Ouch. You better remind her of what she said before
@@oxoelfoxo I would, but I think she just honestly forgets. I’m not buying a more expensive violin anytime soon anyway!
Me, as a law school graduate and a legit CA licensed attorney, watching this episode is like TwoSetViolin watching those violin TV scenes 😂 first, this is not even a criminal case (Judge Judy works for a small claim court which only handles cases under $25000 (don’t remember the exact number tho)) so eddy’s statement “this guy is not guilty” is not correct 😂; second, the elements that constitute fraudulence are: 1. The party made a false statement (not an opinion) 2. That is material and 3. The other party justifiably relied on the statement. Here, the seller did make a false statement, which is how much money he bought it from eBay, but whether this statement is material and whether the lady’s reliance is justifiable are both debatable, so these should be the problems to solve….whether this is a violin is not even in dispute…😝
I think the problem the plaintiff had was that she really didn't really present any sort of a case at all. She never really said what the problem was with the violin. She simply said 'the violin wasn't worth $700', which sounds very vague. She did not explain why the violin was not 'worth' $700. If she said something like, 'The violin was set up badly. According to a luthier that I had examine the violin, the strings were set too high, the tuning pegs were not installed properly, the violin dimensions were wrong, the proper materials were not used, etc.' I think she would have had a case. But as it was, she didn't point out any specific problems with the violin. I don't see any evidence of fraud on the part of the teacher in this case.
But if you are a defendant and lose a case, even if it is in small claims, don't you have to be found guilty of something and if you win be found not guilty? If, for example, I sue a contractor for poor workmanship and prove it to the satisfaction of the court, then the contractor is being found guilty of poor workmanship in the eyes of the court and the court will then decide how much I should be compensated for that problem but if the court agrees with the defendant and decides that my evidence and reasoning is flawed, then the court is viewing the contractor as being not guilty and I lose.
@@wfpelletier4348 I agree. There is no evidence that she knows what kind of a violin is worth $700 and what is worth less. Buying at a lower price and then selling at a higher price is what every one who wants to make profit does and it is not a crime or immoral thing.
@@peaceofkake1085 Guilty/not guilty is for criminal law. In your case, the contractor might be liable for the poor quality of the work he performed but he is not guilty of a crime.
Judge Judy is an arbiter.
She should have just hire an instrument appraiser and get them on court.
Well, most probably would been much expensive than the violin she paid in the first place LMAO
From a legal point of view, specially in some countries, there are over 20+ cases which needs to be heard per day. If they dont get their turn, their cases get reset for a week or even months later. Just imagine how many people gets inconvenienced when you do small talk. All the more if the case which gets reset has an accused in jail. Which is why judges may seem condescending but its their job to keep that order and push on with the next case. A lot of people complain about the smallest things recently (not particular about this case)
The reason she is that way is not about getting through cases. She runs her court in a TV show. So its alot different than normal. She is that short with people because she has been doing this for a LONG time and her personality cuts through the bullshit. For complicated cases she responds accordingly. This case her was pretty straightforward, and she was actually dragging it a little bit more than necessary because she IS putting on a show. She is a showman at the end of the day.
@@Lucia-te1wp from all accounts her “persona” is identical to how she was as a judge in Family court.
Not to mention, its not this direct in court. They also have to read their rights, swore to oath, read the accounts, and other “routine” things you do in court. I
Would you guys ever do a personality test to see which great composer you match up with? :) That would be really interesting to see.
"Im 74 yrs old i dont want to know anything else in my whole life" - top 10 most ignorant statements literally ever
I rarely had seen this show, but what I can say is that I love her no bs attitude.
This case it's tricky because he did some shady things and outright lied to her even if he is entlited to make profit of the transaction, but she also could have made her own investigation before making her purchase, ask some opinions or just refuse.
I don't know about you, but I always try my best to see the instrument in person and give it a try, then come another day to have enough time to think and research before considering buying one online, with some exceptions. I think it helps to avoid this type of situations.
I don’t understand, how do you know he did shady things or lied? I’m not saying he didn’t, but none of those issues were adjudicated. Either way it didn’t seem tricky to me and certainly not to Judge Judy.
I mean, if he did pay $500 maybe shipping, and put some new strings, making less than $200 profit is still not even close to what music stores usually make.
@@ZelosPhotizo Well, how is that you don't have a receipt of your purchase or a proof of that transfer to present in court (If I understood well)? Normally you need to keep all this to back your accountant statements when you have a business, so that was pretty sus to me (and what I tried to convey). If you're in your right to make a profit, why the need to lie? Even if at the end, the responsibility to take that bargain or not was on her.
@@ZelosPhotizo he told her not to shop around because he was the expert, he told her he should buy it since he knew better the people he was dealing with when he was only making an ebay purchase. of course, she shouldn't have been so gullible, but there was a layer of deceptiveness in what he did. judge judy probably understands it was a little tricky, but not overly so that it can win a case legally, since the ultimate decision on the purchase rests on the purchaser.
@@awesomeblossom5214 From the available evidence and statements you don't know exactly what he told and didn't tell her. There are definitely some questions, but the only thing I really questioned was him not finding the receipt, odd but not a indicator in of itself anything deceptive happened.
$700.00 for a violin that was setup and restrung by the teacher that was teaching her really doesn't sound that off in of itself.
With the available evidence I could very easily argue that he was being protective over his student trying to make sure she didn't get ripped off, while making sure she had a solid instrument to start out on.
My point is really that there isn't enough evidence to call him deceptive or protective, nor is there enough to call her gullible or vindictive.
Nothing was adjudicated here other than he didn't do anything illegal and she didn't have a legal claim to be compensated.
No other implication of guilt or innocence should be implied here.
I wonder what will replace that top corner of the shelf next 👀
This is why finding a community is important. So you can share your experiences and someone can tell you if there is something fishy going on.
My two main interests combined: the law x music. Judge Judy FTW always.
"arrest", "guilty" bro its a civil suit 🤣
Oh my god yall are putting out so much videos left and right
I’m very certain my violin teacher took a loss to buy my first violin. I paid her every month for a bit over a year (about $1500) and I know for a fact she paid the other half. I was blessed with a solid (and rich 😅) tutor who was the wife of the Maestro to our Philharmonic. However, not everyone is as blessed as me. Always be careful though as to who you trust.
I have never been this earlier for a towsetviolin video! You guys are amazing! And don’t have forget to practice.
Such an INTERESTING video as always. Love you TwoSet and keep making AMAZING videos like this.
I think it would be really great if you did videos on finding a good music teacher as well as on buying an instrument. I already know how to do both of those things myself, but viewers would definitely pay more attention to your insight rather than the opinion of some rando in the comment section.
Yay! Someone moved the plant! Eddy is safe now.
I love my $600 beginner violin, thank you very much. Ugh, the snobbery with you guys sometimes.
I had a crime against me once that needed to go to our county court. I got a letter from Judge Judy saying I could go on her show to settle it!! I did not but the letter confirmed how they find their cases. She’s the best!
I'm really happy with my $700 violin setup. It's a beginner violin, certainly, with a whitner composite tailpiece, but it's properly set up and sounds...well, a lot better than I do. Hopefully in a year or two that will change ;)
What are you playing? Any chance it's a Sonata from Shar Music?
Choosing an instrument is so tricky! It took me a year to choose my piano! ... and I was playing for 1.5 year when I choose it (yep, I started looking for it after 6 months of learning. I already knew I wanted an acoustic. Digital pianos are so bland imo). As a beginner, it was a struggle. But I'm happy with my choice, 4 years later. :)
My older sister's ex-boyfriend submitted his case via email to the producers of Judge Judy and it got accepted. She got to go with him to LA for the filming and I think they paid them like $200-$300 for the TV appearance and the network paid for their plane tickets and hotel but not food or transportation. I don't remember all the details of the case but I know it had something to do with an 11-year-old kid stealing his van and crashing it. So yeah it's very real and they just pick cases that are interesting enough to film.
HOWEVER because of territorial jurisdiction, Judge Judy can't legally hear the case unless the parties waive their right to be heard in actual court and sign a contract saying that her decision is binding. So it's more like an arbitration or mediation than actual court.
"$500 is almost guaranteed to be bad"
Haha my violin is a once in a lifetime exception!....... I got a decent one for $400
I think with Eddy's high morals and Brett's wit, they'd make good judges for sure.
For your first violin around 300-1000$ always go to an authorized violin shop. The tricky part is when you want a good violin around 8-13k. Where i come from noone is to be trusted. My golden rule is that if someone forces you to make a quick decision.. Back off! Also someone who tells you on his own that he has already lowered the price hes propably a scammer. For example "i have a 12k violin but i give it to u 11k" its propably worth like 7-8k. And finally the people who promise you that the violin will "open up".
Try as many instruments as u can and advice a lot of experts.
TwoSet Violins and Judge Judy. It's a perfect morning!
I just finished watching their Chinese Grade 1 test and I’m excited to dive into this 😆.
You make all musicians day so have a great day, you deserve it!🤗🤗🤗
@Don't read profile photo I wasn’t planning to☺️
“At $700, you’re pretty much guaranteed a bad violin”
*vibing with my $55 violin 👁👄👁* “mhm, mhm.”
I kept waiting for another video of twoset.( And also it's been a year since I watched the first video )
I love this stuff, even though I have no expertise whatsoever in this subject area. The guys are great!
I get that 700 isn't much for a violin, but sadly, for me 10 bucks are a lot, not to mention 700...😭
It's infuriating that people disrespect music and those that want to learn how to play an instrument so much that they would scam people.
Scammers, in my opinion, need a hefty punishment. You also cannot just brush it under the carpet saying the victim shouldn't have fallen for it. People are naive sometimes. Does not mean they deserve to be robbed. Whether this was a genuine case of a scam or just a case of someone wanting their money back because they decided violin wasn't for them after all, I do not know, but either way I think Judy was being unfriendly and unfair.
He wasn't scamming when he said it had 'cost' him $700. He paid $500 (499) for the actual violin, plus new strings (around $75 average? Sorry, I'm not in US). Then add his time to search for/buy the right violin and re-string it when it arrived. Say 2 hours. Going hourly rate for professional musician's time = $80?. So $160 total? That actually all adds up to $734.
I appreciate that $10 is a lot for many of us. My violin was €25 from Ebay (I just wanted a practice instrument that I wasn't precious about). I love her/she sounds great (obviously not a Stradivari!). You can save for one too - just do a bit of research into well-rated makes :-)
@@The-Wordsmith that's a good point. I didn't know violin strings were so expensive. As for the time factor, that lady definitely didn't consider the time the man took on the instrument. If the price he paid was true, then she actually got a fair price. The fact that she paid for the violin and received it before trying to take the man to court is the real problem with her case, as the judge pointed out that is a contract.
I've been waiting for this moment!!!!
If she was handed a viola, she probably would have said it's a violin and dismissed the case too.
What a nice surprise just as i am on a break for practice i fi d the twoset have uploaded a new video
People need to learn how to cut their losses, learn their lesson and move on. I'd be too embarrassed to take legal action against someone for something like this.
I would too, which is why I think that lady is brave and better than us.
I think this lady is broadcasting her stupidity and ignorance. She didn't even go to an instrument shop to know how much a "good" violin costs. And she doesn't really seem to know what is worth US$700.
Everytime I think Twoset has done everything, they prove me wrong. This was an interesting video! Makes me want to watch that series?Judge Judy?
8:36 ooh! Yes pls! Would love to see how to check for a good violin!
There is a mistake made in the case. If the man had bought the violin for 500 dollars, and didn't pretend or imply that it was worth more, the man would have done nothing illegal. However the woman says "he told me he paid 700 dollars" and the judge says it doesn't matter. If the teacher bought the violin for 500 dollars, pretended it was bought/worth seven hundred then the student is entitled for her money back and could sue for fraud.
(At least that's how it works in Australia)
I have watched you all for years. I saw and touched and played my very first violin today. I learned twinkle twinkle 😊
YES MAKE THAT VIDEO ABOUT HOW TO PICK AN INSTRUMENT PLEASE!!
Hey TwoSet! I think it would be really cool if you created a video on what to look for when buying a violin! This would certainly help beginner players like me!
Theyve linked before to Olaf! He has a channel full of tips
@@axureerheeid9136 Okay, thanks! I still think it would be nice if TwoSet did a video, though! And I will DEFINITELY check out Olaf's channel!
Judge Judy is an arbiter for petty cases, what she decides is still binding but this isn’t like really a court.
OMG I just watched some Judge Jury videos in Social studies class recently, what a coincidence! (But not this video)
I also agree that Judge Jury videos are really intense!!!
5 days in a row! Amazing! 👏
4:56 Eddy has being making UA-cam videos for so long he censors himself!
Great content as always 🥰 and great merch apparently too 👀
Daily reminder to practice 40 hours a day 👀
Never would I think that people would be so blind and make assumptions as to what they are purchasing. As a teacher myself I give the best advice/opinion I have for my students plus their parents. Whether it is looking for another violin or a bow I tell them to make an appointment at one of the shops and I actually go with them to try out instruments. How much they are willing to pay is entirely up to them.
No commission, I just go to help
True first hand story: I knew a teacher who would buy the concert guitars of his students dirt cheap and redistribute them and sell them really expensive to his students again with the excuse that he knew which guitar they needed.
if i remember correctly one of the benefits of being on their show (and shows like it but i can't know for certain cuz i only read about judge judy) is that if you lose, they pay on your behalf. but in this case (spoilers) the case was dismissed and nobody gets money
who tries to sue because they feel like they were ripped off afterward? buyer beware bro
twoset moment make my day, love you guys
I had a friend who appeared for a case on Judge Judy over 15 years ago... He lost lmao but yeah that's when I found out that they were actually real cases. He had a pending case and was contacted by the production company asking if he would like to be on the show. I know they pay your way out there and then pay for your stay for a few days and I believe they also cover a portion of the settlement in exchange for your appearance.
I think I paid $350 for my first violin. It was the Sam Ash (chain music store in the US) brand VSO. Upgraded within 2 years to one I paid $500 for that had been $1,500 new. A few years after that I got a $700 viola, which I loved and hated (it was suuuuper dark, which is why I switched, but it was so heavy that it didn't ring, which was hindering me a bit.) and ended up with my current one which was $2,100, I think? Probably will be the one I play forever, because I absolutely adore it, even if it is just a barely student grade instrument.
Judge Judy makes up her own legal rules, from what I've seen.
Yes to the "how to buy a violin" video. Plus SEO -wise, that video would be HUGE. As long as you have a few experts weighing in (to have a variety of opinions), it should be fantastiiicc
The man is not legally guilty
But he is morally not that good
How do you come to that conclusion?
How? Is he suppose to work for her for free? Like the judge said, they are not friends. She paid him for his opinion and labor. Case closed.
How is he morally guilty? When I buy a car, I am paying way more than what it costs the manufacturer to make the car. There is a mark-up on anything you buy. If he got the violin for free from someone, he still had the right to sell it to her for $700.
@@babsb9889 If you all only consider this case as a type of business, then he is absolutely correct. I won't say anything about his action.
But when you are thinking with morality, there is a lot more he can or should do, like keeping the invoice and giving more details to consumers before purchase. I don't think being nicer to others is too hard to be done.
Well, maybe 'morally guilty' is too over. I should change it to 'morally not that good' if you don't like these words. Have a nice day. :)
He discouraged her from purchasing by herself. He marked up the price to get profit. Every one who want to make profit by selling something does these things.
TwoSet, I love your channel even though I don’t play a music instrument :)
“There you have a violin, case closed.” 🤣🤣
I plan on buying a better violin next year ( gotta save up) but as a beginner I would LOVE it if you gave your expertise in a video on what to look for & where to go!