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AUTODOD unboxing and first cuts. CNC neck turner
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- Опубліковано 2 лют 2021
- Get more info on the IDOD here:
fclassproducts...
Since the beginning of time, neck turners have all worked in the exact same manner. They have a mandrel that acts as a pilot and then they have a cutter that rotates around the axis of the mandrel turning the brass to get desired neck thickness. It's not a perfect system but that's just what we had to do, until Bryan Blake decided to make the IDOD and the AUTODOD. These machines use a turning technique called "pinch turning" that uses two blades to turn necks inside and outside at the same time.
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This video is a prime example of why I have come to respect your content as I dive into the world of precision reloading. I do not do anything halfazz. It’s just not in my dna. You don’t either. Watching you open this, and then go thru the items required for initial start up/set up is worth the price of admission. Seeing the success and the failure is what helps us make an informed decision as consumers. Your life would be so much easier if you had a team off to the side explaining to you between scenes exactly how to set this up. Thank goodness that’s not how you roll. Leave those infomercials to those on UA-cam that are only in it for the money. It seems that UR different. And that’s awesome to have found.
Hello Erik, I am not a pro shooter, nor do I reload Ammo, But I have been sucked into your Loading Videos. Thanks for the great Content!
I bought one of those also. Beautiful machine. Works great ! I cannot imagine not having it now ! Thank you for your video sir.
You could use a .013" feeler gauge to set your distance between cutters. Would save you some time on set up.
All of Erik's vedio are extremly informative and useful. Alot of them are not entended for the weekend warriors on a budget.
Yes all the equipment he highlights are fantastic like a $1500 annealed or a $600 primer seating tool or this $1800 neck turner. I think most of us would be better served putting this money into buying bullets, powder, primers and cases and go learn how to become better shooters.
You may not get repeatable quarter MOA groups with our current equipment, but if I get sub half MOA average I'm happy.
Not knocking the information Erik is providing, it's fantastic. Just think there's two ways to skin a cat without spending your life's savings.
Normally a long video like this exceeds my 15-minute attention span, but for you I'll make an exception. I hope this new trimmer produces the results you aim for--one hole!
Incredible neck turner…… quick, fast and clean!! Very good video👍 Keep them coming. I thoroughly enjoy your channel 👍 B Deacon Manitoba Canada 🇨🇦
Pretty sweet machine. You just cost F class John a junk of cash. Hahaha
True. Lol
I was thinking the exact same thing
Thanks EC. Good stuff!
Great Video... Never thought that I would ever consider selling my 21st Century Lathe, but this might be a potential upgrade in the future.
You know... Mitutoyo Ball Micrometers clamped to a rest work great!
Wait what!?!?! You have new toys... 🥺.....😂
You two kick ass! And I don’t even reload or shoot. I just live vicariously through you guys. One day, if I ever make it to retirement I hope to do what you guys do.
Yes John, and it’s awesome! 😁
@@NoOne-ki3bm Thank you. Erik's a great friend and mentor and I'm fortunate to have someone like him in my life. I feel like we balance each other really well and have a lot of fun poking at each other 🤪.
@@FClassJohn how often would you turn necks like this on brass? Just once? It seems if you keep doing this you’d reduce the life of the brass because your just thinning out the thickness of the neck. And yeah I’m a bit of a reloading newbie :-)
@@kurthunter2427 in all fairness Erik is far more experienced and better at turning necks. I think he can much better help you in regards to your question.
Thanks for the sharing brother, man that thing is going to change your trophy cabinet, good luck shooting .
If consistency is key to precision...and we all know it is. This machine will always leave an inconsistent surface scratch inside the neck from case to case. Therefore no 2 cases will hold the projectile exactly the same. Improved version of this machine will need to polish inside neck to remove scratches caused by cutting.
Erik, Just a thought. Think of this machine a cutting threads on a Lathe, The cutter is vee shaped so the profile is like a screw thread. The faster the courser the threads. The slower the finer the threads. You are cutting an internal and external thread. The distance between the peaks are what you are measuring. Which is the same, for the most part, for any speed. Something to think about is gripping power. Course threads cut into the bullet less than fine threads.. This is like changing the amount of crimp on the bullet. It would be interesting to see if there is a velocity difference between slow cut brass compared to fast cut brass. I thought I would bring this up incase you run out of things to do. Take care, Brian
Erik, if your plan is to shoot that brass as 7mm , wouldn't it make sense to expand mandrel it before neck turning? Seems to me the expand mandrel might introduce some unwanted neck thickness variation.
Appears that the idod website has good support and how-to videos and detailed pictures also. Cool 😎
Erik, those are nice units, you are getting a lot of vibration going through that unit. That could also have an affect on the outcome. Just like in a traditional lathe. The additional cutting on the slower feed is taking out those micro ridges and taking care of any spring back. One would think there is a lock on the carriage slide. Maybe another note in the manual. Would love to have one of these for my F-TR brass, but way out of my budget. Still, on my maybe someday list. Thanks for sharing.
Uniformity and concentricity is the name of the game . This neck turning machine does both .
I agree for uniformity of the neck thickness only
Your like a little kid playing with his new truck at Christmas, love the video, keep them coming, who cares if the take a while. When you were looking for the shell, I saw it in your gauge checker, and couldn't tell you.. lol
Yes, "We" Lol. We're all here with you watching.
I wore your Small Groups matter to the range last week, I shot the smallest group I've ever shot at a 100 while testing reloads.... it was a .181 for 5 shots
Badass group there
Good job! It was definitely the shirt. 😁
@@ErikCortina it definitely was the shirt plus all the tips you been giving us newbs
I wore an "I neck size" shirt and got 2.5" groups. It's definitely the shirt🤪🤪🤣🤣
Does it make a difference?
Did you do an accuracy test vs new brass
I have a question... since no brass is not made perfect, this machine doesn't have a free floating head to self center the brass like other neck tuners. Will this cause concentricity issues?
Ok Eric, I love your videos and the education! BUT you gonna have to explain the speed vs. thickness and consistency. Mechanically in my mind I can't fathom the speed being important, if every thing is running concentric. Pls further my education I'm almost hooked into buying one😁
the reason for the difference in thickness with speed rate is from deflection of the cutter. time is just equating to force and thus deflection. the way you handle that with manual is you go over the neck 2x even 3x. Basically until you get no material coming off. You should always go as slow as it takes to get all material off for a given setting.
Nifty piece of equipment
Cool gear, but where's my ec tuner brake?
This is an amazing tool for long range shooters.
Nice equipment. Thanks for sharing. Very enjoyable and interesting.
I would need a sponsorship to afford one of these. But a guy can dream!
the issue with the case being centered by the shoulder is if the neckmis offset at all it will cut that into the neck and hour will have a neck that is thinner and thicker on different sides
Why mandrel after neck turn? Why not mandrel before neck turn?
Too many gadgets with you and John 🤣 Enjoy!
Degree in Blueprints and Machining as well as tool and die, If I lived closer, I'd give ya a hand.
The IDOD is on my want list.
So many things that I want...I want a prometheus scale, a progressive reloading set up with an auto drive, a forster press for rifle reloading, a hydro press with the force indicator, an annealing machine, a bench top mill and lathe, and now this.
@@garyjohns4711 Not nearly enough. Once I get all that gear I will need a custom shop built as well to house everything.
I can’t wait for your AMP review series
Glad to consider signing up for Patreon, but can’t figure out whether the charge is per video, or per month for the videos you produce. Can you clarify?
Patreon is per month from what I understand
At the end of the day, what are the results with run-out and ES and SD? Hopefully there is an improvement
He cares about getting his product to the customer in one piece.
Great video Erik
I really want one of those...but out of my cake range until I save up
One Day when my K&M neck turner grows up. It's going tobe a IDOD.:)
If I only had 1800 dollars laying around to turn case necks... very nice
I assume if I have to pick between neck turner and annealer I would benefit more from the annealer ?
That’s what he told me.
Yes. Annealer first.
@@ErikCortina thanks for the reply
Where did you get the neck measuring gauge! I’m looking to start turning my case necks & have been looking to purchase a vernier ball micrometer? But the gauge you were using in the video is something I’ve never seen?
It's a neck turning tool with an indicator mounted on it (Don Nielsen or so?). You can do the same thing with the K&M neck turning tool. I've made my own system, a copy of the Sinclair (video on my channel). The ball micrometer is the most accurate solution, but also the slowest.
The knife though 😂.
Awesome setup
Hi Erik, there’s no doubt that this is a great machine and very well made and I would say it’s definitely useful for high volume shooters once it is setup correctly, however there are few things in the video which were a little frustrating first the camera overview was to faraway, I appreciate the camera view of the unboxing but when it came to seeing the actual cutting process a closer view would have been more beneficial for us , we wanted to see the case necks from the good to the bad , obviously there was quite a few mistakes made by you in the video as I’m sure a lot of people would also make if going at it too quickly, like with the first piece of brass that was to thin , cutting into the shoulder to much or not enough , but when it came to the speed of the cutting , I find it hard to understand that if all the measurements and depth of the cuts were eventually set correctly to where you wanted them , surely if you were to use a relatively controlled speed the cutter could only remove the material that it was set too so even if the brass was in there longer I don’t see how it can remove even more material making the neck any thinner , because if the machine is accurate without any slop which for a machine costing around $1800s I would hope so , but as you saw when trying to push the cutter too fast it resulted in horrible chatter marks on the case neck demonstrated by your thumb nail , so I’m sure nice and easy would give much better results, I have no doubt that you will iron out all the kinks and make it work to get the results that will be right for you, and like I said for high volume shooters and who have a chunk of money to spare this can certainly save people some time , or they can invest in a mini lathe and have a bit more machinery for their buck.
I love new toys , great vid.
What orange tool are you using to measure neck thickness? I've always wanted to measure necks that way but could never find a tool set up that way.
Did you ever figure this out?
Nielson Pumpkin Neck Turning tool
I'm confused, Erik. In another of your videos that I watched recently ("Common Sense Reloading", maybe), you said that the only case prep work you do is "opening a box of new (Lapua) brass"! Have you started neck turning since you published the earlier video? Thanks.
That was for PRS. For F-Class I neck turn.
Do you make any videos on gas guns
I wonder why that label says .007" = .001. Based on their drawings on their website, the cutter and thimble are at a 10° angle and basic Trig tells us that .001" lateral movement of the cutter with the 10° arrangement would need the thimble to be dialed out .00567.... So really, .006" per .001 would be better than .007 and if you really wanted to get it as close as possible. .0055 would be best (splitting tick marks is not hard to do on a basic .001 per tick thimble).
What's even more interesting is that the same drawing on their website that says that angle is 10° also says that _"For every .001" on the indicator, yields a .0016" difference in wall thickness cut on case neck."_ (which is physically impossible without some sort of link ratio / multiplier since you can never get more than thimble value in a direct motion type system like it is) when really, that .001" on the indicator (thimble) is .00017 difference in case wall thickness.
I knew dating girls in HS instead of doing math homework was a waste of time!! :((
@@captainpegs0740 I did both (I was an over-achiever... Lol)
Being a machinist and fabricator by day with a mech. eng. background, I have to use Trig on a pretty routine basis (borderline daily).
I was just going to post the exact same thing - not really, it’s all a foreign language to me
Just how much speed and money spent is needed when turning your brass? There is a balance in allnof this and if you NEED a thousand+ cases a month (example)...I can see why this would be on the pro side vs the con side.
Nice gear Erik.
I converted my rcbs case trimmer2 to a neck Turner with parts from rcbs, it cuts inside and outside.
Would love to know what parts you used man
@@TheMrkylester101 It was a kit they sell, wonder if they still offer it... My trimmer was the older one with the collets and t-handle, not the new style with the lever to hold the case. Check their website. I think you can set it up with a drill for motorized use.
Will sus it out thanks
@@TheMrkylester101 Mfg part number 98860, with auto feed. Seems to work fine for me
Beauty thanks heaps
I know I'm about to get flamed hard but...! Working with metal is just working with metal no matter where you are. This appears to me to be super expensive and very finicky for the money. This is all about making the wall thickness of the neck uniform, correct?
If you run your brass through a Lee Collet Sizing Die first you'll decap the fired prime and the die will swage the neck wall to a uniform thickness if you bottom out, lift the handle slightly, rotate the brass case 1/3 of a turn then bottom out again. Remove the case and measure the neck all the way around, it will be uniform. And if you wanted to you can lift and rotate the brass a few times so there is no lines in the neck due to the tiny gap between the 4 petals of the collet.
Then run your cases though the shoulder bumping sizing die you prefer. Trim, chamfer as needed. Nothing to break down or burn out. I know it seems too inexpensive to be in the big leagues but it works!
It works very well, I have tested the Lee collet die against several other neck sizing dies including Redding, and the Lee is just as good, if not better. It’s like people don’t understand sizing over a mandrel is the way to go ! Unless your running some tight neck chamber and have to neck trim, I’d stay away from it. I do, however, neck trim for my .338 lapua to help prevent donuts
Would you have gotten better consistent numbers if you would have run the brass over a mandrel to round the necks before cutting?
Run the testing so you know what.s best because loading is the best way for prefect.
Why not use a feeler gage to set the distance between your cutters.
You can.
Thats a cool ass machine
Have you heard of the gracey turner ? I have that one too. Used it for years.
"We" would be you and the other you you're talking to. Its always easier to blame the other you for any mistakes lol
Who makes the orange neck thickness gauge you were using
Big fan here and somewhat new to reloading. If possible would you be able to chat about gear and your process over the phone?
I wonder what the optimal number of cases that can be trimmed before you need a new blade? I would imagine a whole lot because it's cutting brass (soft metal). That said I wonder what the function of sharpness of the blades to accuracy is...
Called the IDOD folks... even if they say they have brass for your cartridge they still will need your brass. I had 12+ cartridges and they charge for each cartridge based on the brass manufacture BM. Each BM requires their own ‘collet’. This machine is cost preventative and not for those who have multiple cartridges.
Eric, are you getting close to having the ECTuners in black available? I'm ready for one
Just have to be on the back order
Trying to get them out. Sorry for delay.
I am assuming you are going to make them into a 284 something. Normally, do you expand the neck and turn or turn the necks and then expand?
Very very nice neck turner! How important would you say neck turning is for brass like lapua and peterson? Thanks
This means that all shale producers produce scrap ?!
Is what you show reflected in the shooting range?
That's not CNC. You need a computer to control it.
CNC stands for Computerized Numerical Control. It is a computerized manufacturing process in which pre-programmed software and code controls the movement of production equipment.
It's just a job specific manual lathe.
Funny thing, my buddy called me 6hrs ago and said he bought one.
First one to Sweden
Did you read the instructions before playing with it and cranking on the micrometer adjustments? 😂
Lets see the group with cnc turned brass!
@@markh6427 as he said, that was with hand turned IDOD not the CNC one
@@markh6427 I will not argue with you or anybody else about this, as I don't have experience with IDOD, but as E.Cortina mentioned in this video, doing it by hand results are not as consistent (because hand movements are not as consistent) as with cnc.
@@markh6427 for me - definetly not (not that great of a shooter), BUT for Mr.Cortina maybe yes :)
@@markh6427 Ok it is possible to get 100% uniform neck thickness and it's fast. But I doubt it is possible to align the case axis with the rotation axis of the lathe each time perfectly. On metal lathes it is almost impossible to get it without checking with an indicator each time you mount the piece of metal into the fixture device.
Great video as usual!! What's going on with the Texas Barndominiums channel? Are you no longer making videos for that site? Don't mean to pry, but I'm just as interested in the Barndos as I am shooting and you make great, informative videos on both topics! Thanks!
I think a air duster for computers would help alot with the chips
If you rotated the overhead camera 180 degrees, this would feel like a POV unboxing.
I hate neck turning. I also hate trimming. The Giraud is awesome. Might have to do this too.
Not enough power because of the cord? That doesn't make any sense Eric. Even if your cord was rated for less Amps than this machine is pulling which is highly unlikely it would overheat the cord. What it sounds like from the clicks is that stepper motor is not getting enough power from power supply which is not related to power cord. I had that issue when I added stepper motor to my mini lathe to control carriage feed. I needed higher voltage/amp power supply and stronger motor but for turning necks on the brass it's a small load.
Idk, they sent me a new cord and I’ll try it out soon. Neck turning video coming out soon.
Dima Prok what you're saying makes perfect sense to me. If the factory cord contained 12 ga wires I'd be very surprised. My mini lathe runs just fine with the 14 ga power cord attached to it. Are those stepper motors AC or DC with a rectifier or inverter? If the stepper is DC then there must be an adjustment at the DC output point.
Out of curiosity what does neck turning truly do? I get that it thins the neck inside an out but what does that lead to? More accuracy, better neck tension, longer brass life? Great video as always though.
Uniformity in neck tension which lowers you SDs and results in better accuracy at longer ranges.
Why this vs a small turret lathe?
i like the case neck gauge
Nice machine Erik easy to adjust and quick . On another note how is the machine e shop coming along ?
Slowly but surely.
If the shoulder angles are different for the different calibers you want to neck turn, wouldn’t you need to change your cutters?
Yes
Erik Cortina - Pro Shooter Thanks Erik.
Hi Eric. Will the necks not get thinner when you size up to 7mm?
Yes.
What about length,oal ?
I still don't understand why cutting inside and outside would be better than pushing the flaws on one side and cutting it. For me if there is even a tiny bit of runout when the case is in rotation, there will be a misalignment between the case and its neck after cutting this way. This kind of misalignment cannot happen with neck turnings tools having mandrels. I doubt you can get a perfect alignment on every brass case with this fixture.
You can’t “push” the flaws out with a mandrel.
Misalignment won’t happen if necks are straight. If they are off, there will be misalignment with any method.
@@ErikCortina With annealed brass cases and a standard full length sizing die it will work, because the die tightens the neck sufficiently before expanding (With a bushing FL die it won't). I think your lathe does the job faster and gives you a perfectly uniform neck thickness, but I still dont trust this system for the alignment of the case neck before turning it. You should at least do a FL sizing before machining because the necks arent perfectly straight, there are often deformed cases even in the blue boxes.
@14:30 in the video, the tool using to measure the neck uniformity, was that something you bought separate or did it come with the idod?
Separate
@@ErikCortinawhat is that tool your using to measure uniformity?
Send his box back👍🏻
No auto feed for it? And here I thought you were a man of culture..
I wish I could get one in Europe. But Pricetag might be to high for me, doesnt mean its not worth it...
Your killing me with your expensive gadgets Eric! What does a 1st time reloader, do? What tools and procedures are really only necessary to get for at least 1 MOA accuracy at 100 yards out of a high quality centerfire rifle? I don’t care about shooting through the same hole at 100 yards, just want safe and accurate reloads that will be as good or better than mid priced factory ammo. Is it possible to do without a second mortgage on the house?Thanks for your way deep videos, however feeling a bit discouraged and intimidated as a 1st time re-loader with all the machines and special high dollar tools I see people using. 😩
I’ll cover that soon.
Do you need to FLS the new brass?
No
Thank you.
Range results soon to be posted?
I posted them already. Watch last 30 seconds of video. 😉
@@ErikCortina
My fault. Thank you.
You might need to hire a machaineest. Like you video
Sounds like a clapped out motor with gravel in the gearbox.
I don't want to come off stupid. I figure this is for accuracy but how and what is it fixing?
It’s ensuring your neck walls are all the same thickness.
@@ErikCortina oh so it centers the bullet better in the chamber I'm guessing?
You should save for a real table top CNC machine for the amount of grass you get through😂ThankQ.TkEZ>UK
How far out are the tuner breaks?
We should start shipping in about a week or so. Fingers crossed.