Can't believe how much you ruined those Pegs with that mud on heels Tim. They need to be binned now for sure. I hope you've been gifted a second pair! 🤣 As for the excuses you failed to mention the lack of pavements.🤣 Cracking comparison as always mate. 😎🤘
Now I think about it these roads had no pavements whatsoever. I took my chances running down the side of the road. It was however only 20 deg C. Any warmer and I would surely have needed a week off. Yes very annoying about that flooding and mud across my path. Could have done with a raised pavement there to help protect my shoes. I did try and give them a little clean after as not all resellers stock Nike shoes and so random discount codes would not work.
Hi Tim, it’s always funny and a bit unusual seeing how large your shoes are (and the camera does some exaggeration), but the ironic part is that I wear the same size as well. :D Thumbs up for the mud run, definitely not for those with the weak heart.
Maybe it is bit like when I see somebody "in real life" who is about as tall as me and then think - blimey they are tall without realising that is must how I look. I was sort of regretting not wearing my GORE-TEX Pegs for the warm up! Have you got any of these shoes? Good to hear of somebody with the same size as me. I sometimes pick up a "normal" sized shoe and wonder why anybody could ever "complain" about say a 250g "daily trainer" when to me they feel light as a feather. Might be nearer to 400g for us !
@@TimGrose I never wore any of the shoes. When they (Peg Turbos) were all craze, I switched from running to cycling, so I missed a chance to try them on. And I wore mostly Asics at the time. The only shoes I have under 300g are Saucony EP3 (~260g, UK 13.5) and Adidas AP3 (~280g UK 13) and they feel feather-light. There is a Kinvara too, but I forgot its weight. And I will not be mentioning hiking or winter boots.
Another very interesting Shoeoff. Actually I expected the NN, as much as I like it, to be a bit slower than the others. Always seemed more daily trainer oriented than the others. My Mach 6 seems to be dying now, and definitely considering the Peg Plus as an alternative lightweight daily trainer.
Yes I thought the same and maybe I "tried" just a little bit more in the NN as a result although was not evidenced in the HR but I have may saved a couple of seconds by not pulling my camera out mid run although I never feel I slow down when I do so like to think has minimal impact. Besides I did not in the Peg Plus either. I do wonder that the NN are just a bit stiffer and that "helps" when you put in a bit of effort. When I did a longish road run in the NN I did start to feel was maybe a bit far but it always felt like a shoe that was happier going a bit faster. I also had some good summer dry firm trail runs in them - the fact was not too mushy and a decent outsole helped I think. Mach 6 I tested last week I just did not enjoy running as much and the low 5mm drop is somewhat alien to me. That said the times were very similar which is really the general theme here that even in shoes don't like too much can still "get going" if minded to. I might try the Peg 2005 in a future. They are very heavy so running full stop in them won't be "easy". Certainly worth checking out the Peg Plus instead of the Mach 6.
@@TimGrose Haha, I do find running while holding up the camera a lot harder because of less arm swing. Plus I feel like I mentally need to concentrate much more on what I'm trying to say! Really loved the Mach 6 but have to say that on the last 2 runs it felt like it's gone quite flat after now around 500km. The foam feels like it's sort of collapsing in itself a bit if that makes sense. Definitely noticeable loss of energy return now.
@@robin29991 yeah I don’t try and speak for long! That is always the problem with Hoka shoes but I never have liked any enough to run in them enough to actually experience the problem myself !
Hi Tim, interesting comparison... Especially, next nature is a surprise! I actually unboxed a new pair of peg turbo 35 (my last pair) yesterday! And the step-in feel even in a new pair is still unmatched-- there is no need to tenderize the zoomx in these! I have had a few pairs of peg turbo 35s, and one thing that gets overlooked is that it is quite a stable shoe! IMO the way the upper hugs the midfoot, the relatively low stack height, and the combination of the two foams makes it a safe option when one is carrying any niggling injuries!
Ah good to have a new pair still to use. I guess though the Turbo 2 I used here are "like new" as done less than 100 miles on them but think will just keep them like this for occasional use. Be interesting to see how you might now find the Peg Plus in comparison. I "quite like" the Plus but do feel the Turbo 1/2 are possibly "better" - certainly lighter. Guess you are right on stability - never really something I get too worried about (well maybe likes of Prime X aside). The relatively low stack height by modern day standards I always tend to think makes shoes like the Turbo more likely to be stable.
@@TimGrose I haven't run in peg plus, but i did try them on in a Nike store... I actually wore my old pair of peg turbo 35 (approx 200 km) to the store for a first impression comparison. And, i was disappointed! Peg plus step-in feel is nothing like peg turbo 35! Anybody can tell (except maybe the CEO of Nike who if one is to believe the story, recently called Zoomx "Zoom 10" in a meeting!) the zoomx versions are different, and as you pointed out, the old one seems more premium! Duh! God knows what Nike has against the Turbo!
@@bluesque9687 I think they had a lot of foam separation issues in the first two versions (although I never did) but the combination worked well I thought. I guess my tests here shows the Plus performs pretty much the same but does just seem to be a different version of the same thing rather than anything really new. And always puzzles me how they contrive to add weight despite supposedly using the premium foam and just that.
@@TimGrose yes, i did have foam seperation in one of the pairs, but i fixed it with a bit of a glue... it is too good a shoe to let go! :) I think Peg premium is going to be interesting... i reckon it will be heavy... but it might just surprise many!
Good vid Tim. Yes very durable shoe the peg 35 , top all rounder. I've been using road and trail versions a little this summer of around 500 miles (and on tired cycling legs) . As watching your 1st peg plus video couple of weeks ago I've received an OG turbo bargain once from vinted 🎉 might use it for my intervals fartleck session tomorrow 😅 Taper week and Alphafly 1 for half mara race Sunday
Thanks! The first Turbo (that I used here and you now seem to have) had a confusing name as was the Pegasus 35 Turbo - presume to distinguish it from the regular Pegasus which in 2018 when that Turbo came out was at version 35. I guess they have sort of done that now with the name "Pegasus Plus" to suggest it is a more premium version of the regular Pegasus although I do find both have a place and I like the Peg 41 when got no particular pace targets - e.g. the warm up in this vid although could have done without the flooded farm track! Be interesting to see how you find that OG Turbo. Should be good for a fartlek.
Seems was 2015. I remember running by one time and seemed open then. I went round the back where the car park would have been and it is now massively overgrown and there are signs on the fences that "guard" it that the building is unsafe. Seems from bentworthparishcouncil.org/parish-council/planning/latest-news-on-the-star-inn in 2021 that was a failed attempt to reopen it as a pub and in 2018 www.altonherald.com/news/star-inn-saga-gets-stranger-every-day-188532 plans to convert into houses can't have got anywhere either. There is however another pub nearby and just off the mile circuit here.
For Garmin elevation you either have to wait a full 10-15 minutes for 3D GPS lock before running or you can calibrate your position. If you calibrate the elevation at your start location, the watch will remember that forever and automatically adjust the barometer at the start of your run.
What was odd here (and it happened last week as well) that by the end of the mile (at same place as the start) the elevation looked "about right" and somewhat higher than the start (by about 20m). However when I saved that run and started a new one for the next mile, the elevation had dipped down again. I had not done any calibration or saving that location. I have done that on older devices but kind of assumed my Forerunner 965 sorts it all out for you. On my 955 I kept the watch running and it seemed to "keep" the elevation from the last mile. I only did a short walk to and from the car to change shoes and that bit was fairly flat.
I think the early react foam was better than the later version, when the epic react came out I felt it was a step change, similar to when the vaporfly came out.
The performance element didn’t surprise me with nn i have that and the plus, just find the plus more usable as an all rounder. The nn always felt like a work hard shoe to me, but always found it good at hard tempo type efforts. Just didn’t love it for regular use in the end
Yeah the Next Nature was an odd one in that never appeared to be as good as the other ones but when I think about it more it is perhaps slightly stiffer than the other ones so, as you say, for tempo type efforts which is "sort of" what I was doing here worked well enough.
I wonder if the firmer platform of the Turbo NN is the difference. Interesting results though. I also think there is something to the 10mm drop and ground fell, per a recent video I did.
Yeah it definitely is a bit "stiffer". I remember in my Peg Plus review vid trying to bend all the versions and the NN seemed to be the "hardest" to flex although in a relative way as with no plate it is hardly like a bike shoe. Generally if you have firmish shoe then it can be fast for shortish efforts like this and also fits my narrow feet well which is a big advantage of say a Rebel v4 or AF3. I do remember doing a couple of 10 mile plus road runs in them and perhaps for that might have ideally wanted something just a little softer and I can certainly see why the soft max stack crowd must have hated it. That all said did I just "try" a little harder in them thinking that I needed to but just did see any jump in heart rate. Sample of 1 doing 1 run etc etc. Then again what it did show is that it is certainly a "running" shoe. I don't think I could do a 6:31 mile in say my Nike Wearallday "trainers" (well without going all out) although might make an interesting challenge!
@@TimGrose I found the Turbo NN very "slappy" on the road, I put about 80km into my pair and gave up. They just never felt smooth or comfortable. I wore them casually for a few months and that was that. I've definitely considered a "Performance vs budget" running shoe video... its on my list but I'm in no hurry to get to it.
Garmin HRM-Pro+ HR strap. It normally works pretty much flawlessly but if the battery is going and/or the electrodes need a bit of a clean can get the odd issue.
@@richardrendell9363 seems could be of a similar class but also just a more premium SL2. That said geometry with 6mm drop seems to be aligned with the Pro 4 and Evo 1. Why do you say Speed 1 ? In the end I found all the Speeds pretty similar.
@@TimGrose I'm just hoping really for a nice midfoot lock, Middle region softness and a nylon plate.. Although I have brought out my u used adizero pro in signal pink to use again as I'm tending to go back to lower stack training shoes
@@richardrendell9363 3 ! They were very hard to get back in 2020 as I recall. Last time I wore mine I pulled my hamstring :) Don't think was the shoe's fault however.
@@TimGrose lightstrike in the front and boost in the back for heel striking, I'm finding that they were hard to run in again with the lower ground feel but now I'm finding they are comfy again and they just feel like they have a faster turn over! It's hard to configure wether my legs are getting weaker from the softer shoes.... I just can't work it out
I think the composition of the ZoomX is not as good in more recent shoes as it was in the earlier versions. Goes for the vaporflys as well. And I think performance is 1% shoe, 99% you! My first marathon, back in the early days soon after I started running, was very close to a sub 3 in a pair of Nimbus!
Yeah we have discussed before that the original bright green Vaporfly 1s just seemed like the "best" feeling. I think these recent shoeoffs have shown me that often things come down to a few seconds and fit and feel can be as important as a "hype" shoe. All my best times were done in old school flats although not sure I would dare run in them these days. Don't think have ever had a Nimbus. In that era "racing" shoe were largely defined by being light and minimal but sure I could have run faster back then in anything than I can now.
@@TimGrose to be fair I knew very little about shoes in those days and just did what every other newbie did, and still do, and just buy one pair of the most boring but durable ASICs or Brooks!
@@josephgonzalez_ yeah certainly up to about 5 years ago I just tried to find a shoe I liked for daily and racing training (Boston or Adios) and when one was worn out just got another pair.
They gained 50g since the Turbo 2?! Evidence the designers don't really think at all about the larger sizes.I bet you in size 9 there is no significant difference in the weights. I wonder if it is almost just a software program that inflates the shoes from the size 9 that the designers actually work with.
Yeah my Turbo 2 here are 278g and Peg Plus 333g so bit over 50g more. I wonder if it is just the inevitable problem of the higher stacks these days. In my size the actual stack is typically higher than the listed one (watch any EddBud video where he often goes on about this) and so with the foam being three dimensional then the weights of the bigger shoes must be relatively bigger than they used to be. Mind you with some companies (ASICS being the worst) they just don't make some shoes in my size full stop.
I have no idea why I find these videos of yours so compelling, but I am grateful to you for making them Tim.
I think a lot of me is helping to make fairly hard sessions seem a bit more manageable by talking to myself during them :)
Great video Tim! One for the true enthusiast.
Thanks!
Can't believe how much you ruined those Pegs with that mud on heels Tim. They need to be binned now for sure. I hope you've been gifted a second pair! 🤣 As for the excuses you failed to mention the lack of pavements.🤣 Cracking comparison as always mate. 😎🤘
Now I think about it these roads had no pavements whatsoever. I took my chances running down the side of the road. It was however only 20 deg C. Any warmer and I would surely have needed a week off. Yes very annoying about that flooding and mud across my path. Could have done with a raised pavement there to help protect my shoes. I did try and give them a little clean after as not all resellers stock Nike shoes and so random discount codes would not work.
Hi Tim, it’s always funny and a bit unusual seeing how large your shoes are (and the camera does some exaggeration), but the ironic part is that I wear the same size as well. :D Thumbs up for the mud run, definitely not for those with the weak heart.
Maybe it is bit like when I see somebody "in real life" who is about as tall as me and then think - blimey they are tall without realising that is must how I look. I was sort of regretting not wearing my GORE-TEX Pegs for the warm up! Have you got any of these shoes? Good to hear of somebody with the same size as me. I sometimes pick up a "normal" sized shoe and wonder why anybody could ever "complain" about say a 250g "daily trainer" when to me they feel light as a feather. Might be nearer to 400g for us !
@@TimGrose I never wore any of the shoes. When they (Peg Turbos) were all craze, I switched from running to cycling, so I missed a chance to try them on. And I wore mostly Asics at the time.
The only shoes I have under 300g are Saucony EP3 (~260g, UK 13.5) and Adidas AP3 (~280g UK 13) and they feel feather-light. There is a Kinvara too, but I forgot its weight. And I will not be mentioning hiking or winter boots.
@@smagic614 yeah anything for us even around 300g feels "light". Only my spikes are under 200g.
Another very interesting Shoeoff. Actually I expected the NN, as much as I like it, to be a bit slower than the others. Always seemed more daily trainer oriented than the others.
My Mach 6 seems to be dying now, and definitely considering the Peg Plus as an alternative lightweight daily trainer.
Yes I thought the same and maybe I "tried" just a little bit more in the NN as a result although was not evidenced in the HR but I have may saved a couple of seconds by not pulling my camera out mid run although I never feel I slow down when I do so like to think has minimal impact. Besides I did not in the Peg Plus either. I do wonder that the NN are just a bit stiffer and that "helps" when you put in a bit of effort. When I did a longish road run in the NN I did start to feel was maybe a bit far but it always felt like a shoe that was happier going a bit faster. I also had some good summer dry firm trail runs in them - the fact was not too mushy and a decent outsole helped I think. Mach 6 I tested last week I just did not enjoy running as much and the low 5mm drop is somewhat alien to me. That said the times were very similar which is really the general theme here that even in shoes don't like too much can still "get going" if minded to. I might try the Peg 2005 in a future. They are very heavy so running full stop in them won't be "easy". Certainly worth checking out the Peg Plus instead of the Mach 6.
@@TimGrose Haha, I do find running while holding up the camera a lot harder because of less arm swing. Plus I feel like I mentally need to concentrate much more on what I'm trying to say!
Really loved the Mach 6 but have to say that on the last 2 runs it felt like it's gone quite flat after now around 500km. The foam feels like it's sort of collapsing in itself a bit if that makes sense. Definitely noticeable loss of energy return now.
@@robin29991 yeah I don’t try and speak for long! That is always the problem with Hoka shoes but I never have liked any enough to run in them enough to actually experience the problem myself !
Well, you've convinced me now. Peg Plus ordered and incoming in time for my Birthday on Sunday:)
@@robin29991 ah nice - 2 strides up your local towpath on Sunday and look forward to your full review next Monday :)
Hi Tim, interesting comparison... Especially, next nature is a surprise!
I actually unboxed a new pair of peg turbo 35 (my last pair) yesterday! And the step-in feel even in a new pair is still unmatched-- there is no need to tenderize the zoomx in these!
I have had a few pairs of peg turbo 35s, and one thing that gets overlooked is that it is quite a stable shoe! IMO the way the upper hugs the midfoot, the relatively low stack height, and the combination of the two foams makes it a safe option when one is carrying any niggling injuries!
Ah good to have a new pair still to use. I guess though the Turbo 2 I used here are "like new" as done less than 100 miles on them but think will just keep them like this for occasional use. Be interesting to see how you might now find the Peg Plus in comparison. I "quite like" the Plus but do feel the Turbo 1/2 are possibly "better" - certainly lighter. Guess you are right on stability - never really something I get too worried about (well maybe likes of Prime X aside). The relatively low stack height by modern day standards I always tend to think makes shoes like the Turbo more likely to be stable.
@@TimGrose I haven't run in peg plus, but i did try them on in a Nike store... I actually wore my old pair of peg turbo 35 (approx 200 km) to the store for a first impression comparison. And, i was disappointed! Peg plus step-in feel is nothing like peg turbo 35! Anybody can tell (except maybe the CEO of Nike who if one is to believe the story, recently called Zoomx "Zoom 10" in a meeting!) the zoomx versions are different, and as you pointed out, the old one seems more premium!
Duh! God knows what Nike has against the Turbo!
@@bluesque9687 I think they had a lot of foam separation issues in the first two versions (although I never did) but the combination worked well I thought. I guess my tests here shows the Plus performs pretty much the same but does just seem to be a different version of the same thing rather than anything really new. And always puzzles me how they contrive to add weight despite supposedly using the premium foam and just that.
@@TimGrose yes, i did have foam seperation in one of the pairs, but i fixed it with a bit of a glue... it is too good a shoe to let go! :)
I think Peg premium is going to be interesting... i reckon it will be heavy... but it might just surprise many!
Good vid Tim.
Yes very durable shoe the peg 35 , top all rounder.
I've been using road and trail versions a little this summer of around 500 miles (and on tired cycling legs) .
As watching your 1st peg plus video couple of weeks ago I've received an OG turbo bargain once from vinted 🎉 might use it for my intervals fartleck session tomorrow 😅
Taper week and Alphafly 1 for half mara race Sunday
Thanks! The first Turbo (that I used here and you now seem to have) had a confusing name as was the Pegasus 35 Turbo - presume to distinguish it from the regular Pegasus which in 2018 when that Turbo came out was at version 35. I guess they have sort of done that now with the name "Pegasus Plus" to suggest it is a more premium version of the regular Pegasus although I do find both have a place and I like the Peg 41 when got no particular pace targets - e.g. the warm up in this vid although could have done without the flooded farm track! Be interesting to see how you find that OG Turbo. Should be good for a fartlek.
Yeah will let you know and thanks for the nike elite sock recommendation other week, getting on well with them
@@joneaton3366 ah you found some. I had the "no show" ones on in this video.
Great shoe off 🙂, I do not even wear nike shoes and I enjoyed it. Tim , how long has that pub been closed?
Same!!😂
Seems was 2015. I remember running by one time and seemed open then. I went round the back where the car park would have been and it is now massively overgrown and there are signs on the fences that "guard" it that the building is unsafe. Seems from bentworthparishcouncil.org/parish-council/planning/latest-news-on-the-star-inn in 2021 that was a failed attempt to reopen it as a pub and in 2018 www.altonherald.com/news/star-inn-saga-gets-stranger-every-day-188532 plans to convert into houses can't have got anywhere either. There is however another pub nearby and just off the mile circuit here.
For Garmin elevation you either have to wait a full 10-15 minutes for 3D GPS lock before running or you can calibrate your position. If you calibrate the elevation at your start location, the watch will remember that forever and automatically adjust the barometer at the start of your run.
What was odd here (and it happened last week as well) that by the end of the mile (at same place as the start) the elevation looked "about right" and somewhat higher than the start (by about 20m). However when I saved that run and started a new one for the next mile, the elevation had dipped down again. I had not done any calibration or saving that location. I have done that on older devices but kind of assumed my Forerunner 965 sorts it all out for you. On my 955 I kept the watch running and it seemed to "keep" the elevation from the last mile. I only did a short walk to and from the car to change shoes and that bit was fairly flat.
I think the early react foam was better than the later version, when the epic react came out I felt it was a step change, similar to when the vaporfly came out.
Heard good reports on the Epic React but never had any. Could be an element, as you imply, of being different to what else was available at the time.
The performance element didn’t surprise me with nn i have that and the plus, just find the plus more usable as an all rounder. The nn always felt like a work hard shoe to me, but always found it good at hard tempo type efforts. Just didn’t love it for regular use in the end
Yeah the Next Nature was an odd one in that never appeared to be as good as the other ones but when I think about it more it is perhaps slightly stiffer than the other ones so, as you say, for tempo type efforts which is "sort of" what I was doing here worked well enough.
I wonder if the firmer platform of the Turbo NN is the difference. Interesting results though. I also think there is something to the 10mm drop and ground fell, per a recent video I did.
Yeah it definitely is a bit "stiffer". I remember in my Peg Plus review vid trying to bend all the versions and the NN seemed to be the "hardest" to flex although in a relative way as with no plate it is hardly like a bike shoe. Generally if you have firmish shoe then it can be fast for shortish efforts like this and also fits my narrow feet well which is a big advantage of say a Rebel v4 or AF3. I do remember doing a couple of 10 mile plus road runs in them and perhaps for that might have ideally wanted something just a little softer and I can certainly see why the soft max stack crowd must have hated it. That all said did I just "try" a little harder in them thinking that I needed to but just did see any jump in heart rate. Sample of 1 doing 1 run etc etc. Then again what it did show is that it is certainly a "running" shoe. I don't think I could do a 6:31 mile in say my Nike Wearallday "trainers" (well without going all out) although might make an interesting challenge!
@@TimGrose I found the Turbo NN very "slappy" on the road, I put about 80km into my pair and gave up. They just never felt smooth or comfortable. I wore them casually for a few months and that was that.
I've definitely considered a "Performance vs budget" running shoe video... its on my list but I'm in no hurry to get to it.
Great review, how do you measure the HR?
Garmin HRM-Pro+ HR strap. It normally works pretty much flawlessly but if the battery is going and/or the electrodes need a bit of a clean can get the odd issue.
@TimGrose Adidas evo sl £130!! I'm hoping this is the new saucony speed 1 😮
@@richardrendell9363 seems could be of a similar class but also just a more premium SL2. That said geometry with 6mm drop seems to be aligned with the Pro 4 and Evo 1. Why do you say Speed 1 ? In the end I found all the Speeds pretty similar.
@@TimGrose I'm just hoping really for a nice midfoot lock, Middle region softness and a nylon plate.. Although I have brought out my u used adizero pro in signal pink to use again as I'm tending to go back to lower stack training shoes
@@TimGrose I still have 3 pairs of the adizero adios pro v1s in the boxes to use
@@richardrendell9363 3 ! They were very hard to get back in 2020 as I recall. Last time I wore mine I pulled my hamstring :) Don't think was the shoe's fault however.
@@TimGrose lightstrike in the front and boost in the back for heel striking, I'm finding that they were hard to run in again with the lower ground feel but now I'm finding they are comfy again and they just feel like they have a faster turn over! It's hard to configure wether my legs are getting weaker from the softer shoes.... I just can't work it out
I think the composition of the ZoomX is not as good in more recent shoes as it was in the earlier versions. Goes for the vaporflys as well. And I think performance is 1% shoe, 99% you! My first marathon, back in the early days soon after I started running, was very close to a sub 3 in a pair of Nimbus!
Yeah we have discussed before that the original bright green Vaporfly 1s just seemed like the "best" feeling. I think these recent shoeoffs have shown me that often things come down to a few seconds and fit and feel can be as important as a "hype" shoe. All my best times were done in old school flats although not sure I would dare run in them these days. Don't think have ever had a Nimbus. In that era "racing" shoe were largely defined by being light and minimal but sure I could have run faster back then in anything than I can now.
@@TimGrose to be fair I knew very little about shoes in those days and just did what every other newbie did, and still do, and just buy one pair of the most boring but durable ASICs or Brooks!
@@josephgonzalez_ yeah certainly up to about 5 years ago I just tried to find a shoe I liked for daily and racing training (Boston or Adios) and when one was worn out just got another pair.
They gained 50g since the Turbo 2?! Evidence the designers don't really think at all about the larger sizes.I bet you in size 9 there is no significant difference in the weights. I wonder if it is almost just a software program that inflates the shoes from the size 9 that the designers actually work with.
Yeah my Turbo 2 here are 278g and Peg Plus 333g so bit over 50g more. I wonder if it is just the inevitable problem of the higher stacks these days. In my size the actual stack is typically higher than the listed one (watch any EddBud video where he often goes on about this) and so with the foam being three dimensional then the weights of the bigger shoes must be relatively bigger than they used to be. Mind you with some companies (ASICS being the worst) they just don't make some shoes in my size full stop.
Oh noes! All the wet and mud. Ruined! Ruined!
Yeah in hindsight should have warmed up in my GORE-TEX Pegs!
2:21 only one thing for it.....need to buy some clean ones :P
ha ha, it wasn't great but I think I got the worst of the grime off!