I'd like to quote SotL here, "Say what you want about my mother, or me as a person, but how dare you say I'm not math-y." -Is the Paladin Worth It Part 2
@@mortache Speed has the same issues and should be fixed the same way. Think of the comparable car example. This car is 1.2 times faster. Trips take 83.33...% of normal travel time. Trip time reduced by 16.66%. Trips completed 16.666% faster. The first 3 of these are equivalent but the last one is grammatically ambiguous. In "Trips completed 16.666% faster." is the 16.66% referring to the trip time or the car. To put in aoe terms. Infantry trains 1.2 times faster. Infantry takes 83.33% of normal train time. Infantry training time reduced by 16.66%. Infantry is trained 16.666% faster. The problem is No one ever says "Trips completed 16.666% faster." in our new airplane. They always say either the new airplane is 20% faster or trips take 16.66% less time in our new airplane. "Trips completed 16.666% faster." is not wrong mathematically(like Spirit of the law says). Its just grammatically ambiguous. Does the 16.66% percent refer to the planes speed or to the trip time.
If anyone's wondering, the reason that the _team bonuses_ (like the Britons' Archery Ranges work 20% faster bonus) are actually correct is that they modify a different attribute to the other unit attack rate and creation time bonuses. The team bonuses don't multiply anything by 0.8 or 0.8333 or anything like that. Instead, they multiply the _Work Rate_ attribute of the buildings by 120%. This affects the entire building; not only the units created from it, but the technologies researched at it too. It's also the same for Treadmill Crane; it doesn't _decrease the build time of buildings by 20%_ (which would mean it would actually be 25% faster), no, what it actually does is _increase the work rate of the Builder by 20%_ , which is the same effect as multiplying the build time of all buildings by 0.8333.
If you played CBA TTM, you must notice how 3x Conscription affects tech researches. It can also be noticed in 9tm or 81tm (it's a bit more obvious in the last mod). Sweet explanation bro!
Decent analysis. I have noticed that in AoE3 as well, if one enables the detailed Home City and Upgrade information tab thingy from Options, it actually gives a lot of the things as either a *build rate*, like with the building speed up card or infantry training, or a *build point count*, which is 'set to 500%' with the Chinese unique wall card. The reason why the Build Rate ones work as intended and correctly labelled is that each unit or building has a specific number of Build Points to accumulate, before it can be 'fully' created. 12 Build Points per second creates a 120-pt unit in 10 seconds whereas it would take 12 without the boost - for the sake of argument, let's say 10 Build Points per second. Unmodified/Modified = 12/10 = 20% faster. I do realise I'm half a year late :p
Remember, when we're talking about "faster" in this context, we're referring to speed. Speed is action/time, not time/action. That's why it's miles per hour and not the hours it takes to travel a mile. So when you start measuring attack rate the number they should be modifying is attacks per second, not seconds per attack. It matters! 2/1 is not equal to 1/2.
There's a common mistake about percentage that 20% raise is the reverse of 20% reduction. Going from 8 to 10 is a 25% raise but going back from 10 to 8 is a 20% reduction, not 25%. I guess that for the mongols, in the code the game reduces the reload time of cavalry archer to 20% so that actually makes cavalry archers fire 25% faster but not 20% because "25% raise" is the real opposite of "20% reduction". I hope my comment clarifies thing instead of adding confusion.
I think it's more about the fact that rate is inverse of time. So from 10s to 8s (20% less time) will result in 1/10 to 1/8 attack rate(25% faster rate). If you calculate the ratio it's just like from 8 to 10, but the rationale is not the same.
The underlying problem is that people are thinking of things in terms of percentage increases or decreases, but that's useless. Just use factors, like 1.25 instead of 25% increase or 0.8 instead of 20% decrease and the problem never arises. Also don't mix up rates and other things.
TL;DR -- the AOE2 developers failed in using English to explain statistics. As someone who works in the education technology industry, I thank you for this video ^^
Day Y. They failed in math not English, since they knew what they were writing, as they thought it was 25% or whatever percent we're talking about, but the math failed out first
I've always found it funny how unintuitive rates and statistics can be. The human brain takes a lot of statistical shortcuts in day to day life that make finding the answer quicker, even if it's a less accurate answer. So when you try to define these operations explicitly (i.e. writing them as a formula), you naturally end up baking in all those shortcuts. Hell, there's entire industries, such as casinos and game shows, that rely on these faulty shortcuts of ours to make money.
Then you should learn math. This world is plagued with mathematically illiterate morons and their dumbass opinions, if this stuff is interesting to you, learn math and make the world just a little bit better place for everyone.
Essentially they should say it takes them 20% less time to reload, or 50% less time to make a unit. Because a 20% reduction is equal to a 25% increase. 4/5 * 5/4 = 1 or with other words 0.8 * 1.25 = 1 And all this confusion is why we need proper public education!
Basically, if 1.0 or 100% is the default rate and something is supposed to work 20% faster, then instead of multiplying it by (1-0.2) you should divide it by (1+0.2).
If a tech let me build 4 Markets in 3 minutes, I have both: "4/3 as fast construction" AND "it takes 3/4 as long to build each". You easily get these inverse (aka reciprocal) values by flipping the fraction upside down. An Archer fires 20 shots in 40 seconds. His shots per second are 20/40 i.e. 0.5. His reload time is 40/20 i.e. 2s per shot. Tripling his shots per second means 60/40 i.e. 1.5 per second. His reload time now is 40/60 i.e. 0.6666s. There's no need to add or subtract anything. Just flip the fraction.
Spontaneus video ideas: 01) The behaviour of deer and how to lure it. 02) The pronounciation of the numerous special units, with evidence and source. (Condotierro etc.)
its funny, when i was a kid i used to hate fractions because they seemed so strange and unusable to me and i always used to change them to percentages or decimals to make it easier for myself. now, looking back at it as an adult, these sort of things make so much more sense when they are presented as fractions.
Is just math... I remember that it got me confused when I learned all of that back in the day, even now I always double check when working with percentages
Is a unit is made in 8 seconds rather than 10 seconds, it’s 25% faster, or 80% the time. Similarly, a unit made in 5 seconds rather than 10 is made 100% faster, or 50% the original time. If you and your friend are each an identical model and your friend is putting it together twice as fast (100% faster) it’ll take him half the time (50%) to finish it compared to you. Wording is important if you want to make a sensible description.
I understood it already but perfect explaination man. The important you should have stressed is the definition of 'rate'. Rate is always x per time. Not time per x. What the bonuses indicate is the change in time per action, and rate is action per time.
The concept is basic mathematics but a very easy mistake to make if you're not careful. Initially I was a bit baffled by how people could doubt the numbers in your previous videos since it seemed so obvious but your final example in this video really showed me how easy it is to mix up the math depending on the wording used.
Love your videos, you have the best narrator/caster voice and bring forward interesting facts. I suppose a great fix for AoE2 tooltips, would be to display unit attack speed as number of shots/sec. I thought your slow-mo mongol cavalry archer segment was more understandable. Numeracy isn't a skill many have developed, including myself, hence why expressing risk in i.e. number needed to harm or ratios is more intuitive than percentages.
advancing and deepening my understanding of aoe2 IS life, Silly Billy. To say 'there are other things in life' just means 'there are other topics for SotL to cover yet'
God I‘m so happy you finally get the subscribers you deserve Bro, been following you since HD came out and now with the new game announced I hope your channel will get even more popular ❤️Btw would love to play with you from time to time and you should definitely think about streaming a lot. People love you 🦄
Nice! I see this confusion come up somewhat often as people tend not to think of things as being greater than 100%, so they instinctively use the lower percentage in the math and get the wrong result. I occasionally still make the same mistake when I'm in a rush despite knowing the correct way, lol
Hey SOTL! I have been wondering for quite some time now: How do blacksmith upgrades work? For example, Do they only give +1 attack or do they also increase any bonus damage dealt? I feel like, for example with halberdiers dealing an extra 32 against cavalry, that upgrading them would be incredibly insignificant then? As always, keep up the great work!
Blacksmith upgrades do not increase bonus attack, so yes, getting forging or blast furnace for your halberdiers is near useless when they're solely fighting cavalry.
Your videos make you able to make you new strategies and have more control in the confrontations. Like killing huscarles with mangudai and few hussar cavalry.
It's really good to have this maths stuff.Even if I like gameplay or ideas to improve my skills,I found this truly interesting cause it's part of the game and it's (again) interesting to see.Good job ;)
Spirit Of The Law shows us why maths is important, even you won't become a teacher or whatever. He uses his intelligence and intuition to blame the developers and other people who express imprecise. I play AoM but your channel quality is so good bringing me more and more ideas and understandig math and the game at an very interessting level. You can use your skills for this channel but i think you should consider using your talent on varios ways! We should all appreciate the work Spirit put into his videos, because its hours and hours of video making, voice acting, research and thinking about the themes! I give you my award of approval: Sic itur ad astra!
It's pretty basic math, but still the video is very interesting and informative. It's easy to confuse the raise rate with reduction, that's a valuable lesson to remember.
The old age of empires 2 it started by using the denominator to show that when it says 20% faster, you divide by 1.2 instead of multiply by 0.8, but the team bonuses corrected this mistake. Since dividing by 1.2 is same as multiplying by 8.3333 instead of just 0.8.
Can't say that I'm a big fan of numbers and maths but I'd rather have you teaching mathematics, at least you put numbers in an intresting perspective! >.> Keep up the good job bro!
It comes down to the difference between reducing time and increasing speed being the affected stat. The intuitive example at the beginning would be a reduction in production *time* by 20% but that's not what the bonus grants. It's like driving a car, if you drive 100% faster, i.e. increase your *speed* by 100%, you'll reach your destination in half the time. If you reduce travel *time* , equivalent to the production time example, by 100% you're at your destination the moment you set out.
So in a nutshell: They made the mistake of mixing up "rate of quantity" with "quantity": They applied their percentage to the *rate of change of quantity* rather then the quantity itself and said it was a *change in quantity* which is wrong. Mathematically speaking, they modified the first derivative of their quantity when talking about the quantity itself. I especially like your car analogy because the velocity is the first derivative of the position and you make it clear that you cannot say "X percent more speed" = "X percent less time / more distance".
About the Working Speeds,I always uses this "If the Tech tree says the Building Works 20% Faster,it's means every second of that building working,it works in 1.2 Seconds" So if you're producing a Crossbowman that took 20 Seconds,a Normal Archery Range will create a Crossbowman in 20 Seconds,while the 20% Faster would create it in 20/1.2 = 16.6 Seconds. From this it's concluded that the "Faster Building Work Rate",and "Reduced Unit Train Time" isn't the same.
I haven't really been paying attention in your past videos. I thought your corrections of 20% -> 25% (the only one I really remember) was a one off mistake in the game. But apparently they got them all wrong. Sounds like a patch is needed.
SotL i dont care much about the AoE2 anymore and i just came here hear you talking (english is not my native language btw). You have a nice soothing voice, i dont know your plans but you should definetly think of a career as a narrator or something
Spirit, I love your videos. I just wish there were a Spirit of the Law for Rise of Nations as well. Even though I only play Rise of Nations, I still love to learn about AOE 2 from your content.
Spirit: "I don't want to leave people confused, or feeling like they're on the outside looking in" Me: "It's like I'm watching someone else, living in my skin."
For those that still don't get it: When said "50% faster" it mean the red fills at 150%, so in the time it would reach 100 it would now reach 150, and because you only need to reach 100 not 150 you don't use all the bonus, so you don't get it in 50% of the original time, but 67%. To get at 50% of the time you would need go faster.
So, it actually reduces the time it takes to do anything but since we measure the rate which attacks are done usually it's for example #attacks/time_taken, or units_produced/time_taken. what they do probably is time_taken=time_taken*mod. and they say mod=1-0.2 for 20%. so in the end the percentage is on the bottom of the division, while what we understand usually would be the percentage to be on top. So again both viewpoints stand true, but SotL and the game speak for different things. One says about time taken while the other says about "production" so it's something divided by the time taken. About the argument "if you go over 100% you get negative numbers", that's a mathematician's and a programmer's job to know when you can and when you can't go over 100%, that's why they don't.
Spirit of the Basic Math Laws. 10/10 Would attend class again! But really, I'm not sure sure what's worse. That the displayed values are still false to this day or that there are adults who would really defend the "old" method?
One thing I always wanted to know is the difference in increased arrow volley whenever you garrison units. From what I observed, it seems like it varies depending on the unit you garrison, with Janissaries and Hand Cannoneers giving the most additional arrows, even to the point where a good number of them garrisoned inside a Bombard Tower (Teutons) allows the tower to shoot two cannonballs instead of one, if memory serves. So does a Janissary, Hand Cannoneer and an Elite Janissary differ in the number of bonuses they give? How about arrow and gunpowder units in a tower/castle? And how do they all compare to Villagers? How much of each unit do you need to garrison inside a tower/castle to use the least amount of units for the maximum amount of arrows? Is there a maximum number of arrows that can be reached? What about a Teutons' Bombard Tower filled with all Elite Janissaries? What about Teutons' Crenellations? What's the best infantry for Teutons to garrison with for more arrows?
I think the reason so many are inaccurate is because the instructions were written by programmers rather than playtesters. The programmers put down the numbers they put into the formula's and not the actual effect those bonuses have in game.
Now I understand it 25% better
Not 200%!?
That's my ignorance level, I am 200% less ignorant now :)
You mean you understood 80% of it before and now you understand it 100%? Ah SeemsGood Kappa
+burt591 Or in other words, you need 20% less time to get it.
Are you sure you don't misunderstand 33% less?
I'd like to quote SotL here,
"Say what you want about my mother, or me as a person, but how dare you say I'm not math-y."
-Is the Paladin Worth It Part 2
Jay Blodget just the video at the top of the sidebar.
I really would just change everything to:
*"Infantry training time reduced by 20%"*
instead of:
*"Infantry is trained 20% faster"...*
This is an easy solution
AoE 3 did that ;)
Would fix some, but there are also other cases like costs, speed, etc
@@mortache Speed has the same issues and should be fixed the same way. Think of the comparable car example.
This car is 1.2 times faster. Trips take 83.33...% of normal travel time. Trip time reduced by 16.66%. Trips completed 16.666% faster.
The first 3 of these are equivalent but the last one is grammatically ambiguous. In "Trips completed 16.666% faster." is the 16.66% referring to the trip time or the car. To put in aoe terms.
Infantry trains 1.2 times faster. Infantry takes 83.33% of normal train time. Infantry training time reduced by 16.66%. Infantry is trained 16.666% faster.
The problem is
No one ever says "Trips completed 16.666% faster." in our new airplane. They always say either the new airplane is 20% faster or trips take 16.66% less time in our new airplane. "Trips completed 16.666% faster." is not wrong mathematically(like Spirit of the law says). Its just grammatically ambiguous. Does the 16.66% percent refer to the planes speed or to the trip time.
This is such an easy mistake to fix. Really would help
This entire video summed up "The word faster actually should be in less time"
Spirit of the Law is at it again, separating myth from math! (I still want that to be this channel's catchphrase...)
Spirit of the math
I would love a Video about healing, can't find anything about it on UA-cam. I hope he sees this :/
@ TeamTimeMr He talked some about it in the vikings overview video.
we don't play age of mythology bthough
Lllllllllllllll
If anyone's wondering, the reason that the _team bonuses_ (like the Britons' Archery Ranges work 20% faster bonus) are actually correct is that they modify a different attribute to the other unit attack rate and creation time bonuses.
The team bonuses don't multiply anything by 0.8 or 0.8333 or anything like that. Instead, they multiply the _Work Rate_ attribute of the buildings by 120%. This affects the entire building; not only the units created from it, but the technologies researched at it too. It's also the same for Treadmill Crane; it doesn't _decrease the build time of buildings by 20%_ (which would mean it would actually be 25% faster), no, what it actually does is _increase the work rate of the Builder by 20%_ , which is the same effect as multiplying the build time of all buildings by 0.8333.
If you played CBA TTM, you must notice how 3x Conscription affects tech researches. It can also be noticed in 9tm or 81tm (it's a bit more obvious in the last mod). Sweet explanation bro!
Wrong.
Decent analysis. I have noticed that in AoE3 as well, if one enables the detailed Home City and Upgrade information tab thingy from Options, it actually gives a lot of the things as either a *build rate*, like with the building speed up card or infantry training, or a *build point count*, which is 'set to 500%' with the Chinese unique wall card.
The reason why the Build Rate ones work as intended and correctly labelled is that each unit or building has a specific number of Build Points to accumulate, before it can be 'fully' created. 12 Build Points per second creates a 120-pt unit in 10 seconds whereas it would take 12 without the boost - for the sake of argument, let's say 10 Build Points per second.
Unmodified/Modified = 12/10 = 20% faster.
I do realise I'm half a year late :p
Remember, when we're talking about "faster" in this context, we're referring to speed. Speed is action/time, not time/action. That's why it's miles per hour and not the hours it takes to travel a mile. So when you start measuring attack rate the number they should be modifying is attacks per second, not seconds per attack. It matters! 2/1 is not equal to 1/2.
That's the perfect summary of this video.
Can we appreciate the fact that someone who works on this game probably saw these videos and fixed the numbers in the game?
There's a common mistake about percentage that 20% raise is the reverse of 20% reduction. Going from 8 to 10 is a 25% raise but going back from 10 to 8 is a 20% reduction, not 25%.
I guess that for the mongols, in the code the game reduces the reload time of cavalry archer to 20% so that actually makes cavalry archers fire 25% faster but not 20% because "25% raise" is the real opposite of "20% reduction". I hope my comment clarifies thing instead of adding confusion.
Top comment. I was thinking this all along.
I think it's more about the fact that rate is inverse of time. So from 10s to 8s (20% less time) will result in 1/10 to 1/8 attack rate(25% faster rate). If you calculate the ratio it's just like from 8 to 10, but the rationale is not the same.
The underlying problem is that people are thinking of things in terms of percentage increases or decreases, but that's useless. Just use factors, like 1.25 instead of 25% increase or 0.8 instead of 20% decrease and the problem never arises. Also don't mix up rates and other things.
Exactly
TL;DR -- the AOE2 developers failed in using English to explain statistics.
As someone who works in the education technology industry, I thank you for this video ^^
or they failed at math
Day Y. They failed in math not English, since they knew what they were writing, as they thought it was 25% or whatever percent we're talking about, but the math failed out first
This stuff really interests me, I love looking at attack rates.
I've always found it funny how unintuitive rates and statistics can be. The human brain takes a lot of statistical shortcuts in day to day life that make finding the answer quicker, even if it's a less accurate answer. So when you try to define these operations explicitly (i.e. writing them as a formula), you naturally end up baking in all those shortcuts.
Hell, there's entire industries, such as casinos and game shows, that rely on these faulty shortcuts of ours to make money.
omg tocaraca you're everywhere...
Then you should learn math. This world is plagued with mathematically illiterate morons and their dumbass opinions, if this stuff is interesting to you, learn math and make the world just a little bit better place for everyone.
Are you the same Tocaraca from Reddit? Holy shit.
Just heated my leftovers after a long day at work. And this is the perfect thing to unwind to! Thanks!
What a noob you are! If you had a microwave which worked 200% faster your meal would have been ready 10 seconds before you came home.
Kalenz Now thats a dumbass joke right there lol
was like a high school maths lesson as a break from med school revision. great video
They fixed that now finally in DE. Had to rewatch this video for this glorious occasion!
Essentially they should say it takes them 20% less time to reload, or 50% less time to make a unit.
Because a 20% reduction is equal to a 25% increase. 4/5 * 5/4 = 1 or with other words 0.8 * 1.25 = 1
And all this confusion is why we need proper public education!
He kinda said that exact thing at the end, but yes, you are right :)
Or Zerglings. 2 for 1.
It's like in Planetside 2, where the Resist Shield 40% damage reduction actually grants 67% bonus health from full health when you calculate it out.
CleanSweepGaming Yep! Taking only 3/5 as much damage means it takes 5/3 as many attacks to kill you
Never have maths been more interesting! SOTL is awesome!!!
Basically, if 1.0 or 100% is the default rate and something is supposed to work 20% faster, then instead of multiplying it by (1-0.2) you should divide it by (1+0.2).
If a tech let me build 4 Markets in 3 minutes, I have both:
"4/3 as fast construction"
AND
"it takes 3/4 as long to build each".
You easily get these inverse (aka reciprocal) values by flipping the fraction upside down.
An Archer fires 20 shots in 40 seconds. His shots per second are 20/40 i.e. 0.5. His reload time is 40/20 i.e. 2s per shot.
Tripling his shots per second means 60/40 i.e. 1.5 per second. His reload time now is 40/60 i.e. 0.6666s.
There's no need to add or subtract anything. Just flip the fraction.
Spontaneus video ideas:
01) The behaviour of deer and how to lure it.
02) The pronounciation of the numerous special units, with evidence and source. (Condotierro etc.)
This is your Best Intro, please bring it back for every video!
You are awesome dood!
Woah what a beautiful opening design
its funny, when i was a kid i used to hate fractions because they seemed so strange and unusable to me and i always used to change them to percentages or decimals to make it easier for myself. now, looking back at it as an adult, these sort of things make so much more sense when they are presented as fractions.
Btw this was explained in the "why the Japanese 25% bonus is actually 33%" to me it was good enough
It's sick to see how deep your research on those topics goes! Really liking it! :)
'' You can't fool me! Is 25% faster! ''
Is just math... I remember that it got me confused when I learned all of that back in the day, even now I always double check when working with percentages
i don't even play the game anymore but i've been watching every video of yours, even the math ones. Amazing channel!
Is a unit is made in 8 seconds rather than 10 seconds, it’s 25% faster, or 80% the time. Similarly, a unit made in 5 seconds rather than 10 is made 100% faster, or 50% the original time. If you and your friend are each an identical model and your friend is putting it together twice as fast (100% faster) it’ll take him half the time (50%) to finish it compared to you. Wording is important if you want to make a sensible description.
I understood it already but perfect explaination man.
The important you should have stressed is the definition of 'rate'. Rate is always x per time. Not time per x. What the bonuses indicate is the change in time per action, and rate is action per time.
Meanwhile over at Ensemble studios....Bob the programmer just smacked Ed the programmer upside the head and said, "TOLD YOU SO!"
Fishmonger !
^ LOL
i have this strange satisfaction watching all your mathy videos. Keep em going :D
The concept is basic mathematics but a very easy mistake to make if you're not careful. Initially I was a bit baffled by how people could doubt the numbers in your previous videos since it seemed so obvious but your final example in this video really showed me how easy it is to mix up the math depending on the wording used.
Love your videos, you have the best narrator/caster voice and bring forward interesting facts. I suppose a great fix for AoE2 tooltips, would be to display unit attack speed as number of shots/sec. I thought your slow-mo mongol cavalry archer segment was more understandable. Numeracy isn't a skill many have developed, including myself, hence why expressing risk in i.e. number needed to harm or ratios is more intuitive than percentages.
Been waiting for this all day
and by all day I mean all week, this is the only thing I look forward to in life
there are other things in life
like civ overviews and AoE 1: DE :D
advancing and deepening my understanding of aoe2 IS life, Silly Billy. To say 'there are other things in life' just means 'there are other topics for SotL to cover yet'
Thanks to this video I now understand percentages and fractions a lot better. Thanks Spirit of the Math!
SO MANY GOOD AOE2 VIDS COMING OUT RIGHT NOW
God I‘m so happy you finally get the subscribers you deserve Bro, been following you since HD came out and now with the new game announced I hope your channel will get even more popular ❤️Btw would love to play with you from time to time and you should definitely think about streaming a lot. People love you 🦄
Nice! I see this confusion come up somewhat often as people tend not to think of things as being greater than 100%, so they instinctively use the lower percentage in the math and get the wrong result. I occasionally still make the same mistake when I'm in a rush despite knowing the correct way, lol
I'm glad only my cats were witnesses to my answer at 2:09! You straightened me right out.
Hey SOTL! I have been wondering for quite some time now: How do blacksmith upgrades work?
For example, Do they only give +1 attack or do they also increase any bonus damage dealt?
I feel like, for example with halberdiers dealing an extra 32 against cavalry, that upgrading them would be incredibly insignificant then?
As always, keep up the great work!
Blacksmith upgrades do not increase bonus attack, so yes, getting forging or blast furnace for your halberdiers is near useless when they're solely fighting cavalry.
Your videos make you able to make you new strategies and have more control in the confrontations. Like killing huscarles with mangudai and few hussar cavalry.
It's really good to have this maths stuff.Even if I like gameplay or ideas to improve my skills,I found this truly interesting cause it's part of the game and it's (again) interesting to see.Good job ;)
I really appreciate you going in depth on this game. Thank you allot. I hope you succeed as a UA-camr.
Loved the new opening montage. Those poor pikemen at 1:29.
just used this video to proof my argument of correct attack speed calculations in WoW Classic :)
Spirit uploads a new video and the day is saved 🙌🏽
I knew exactly what this video would be about before I even clicked it.
I even knew all the maths already.
And yet, I still watched the video.
c:
Spirit Of The Law shows us why maths is important, even you won't become a teacher or whatever. He uses his intelligence and intuition to blame the developers and other people who express imprecise. I play AoM but your channel quality is so good bringing me more and more ideas and understandig math and the game at an very interessting level. You can use your skills for this channel but i think you should consider using your talent on varios ways! We should all appreciate the work Spirit put into his videos, because its hours and hours of video making, voice acting, research and thinking about the themes! I give you my award of approval: Sic itur ad astra!
I LOVE the cheeky remark you made at the end to al the naysayers but still keeping it professional 😂👌
Great video! been waiting for you to address the problem with some of the math in AoE
It's pretty basic math, but still the video is very interesting and informative. It's easy to confuse the raise rate with reduction, that's a valuable lesson to remember.
The old age of empires 2 it started by using the denominator to show that when it says 20% faster, you divide by 1.2 instead of multiply by 0.8, but the team bonuses corrected this mistake. Since dividing by 1.2 is same as multiplying by 8.3333 instead of just 0.8.
I hope this vid got you 20% more subs ! And why John Green ?
François Bergmans John Green often references the unusual and unorthodox ways of Mongols.
"Wait for it, the Mongols!"
~John Green
I understand what you say, but I understand the other method and my subconscious does the rest of it for me, glad you cleared that up!
Can't say that I'm a big fan of numbers and maths but I'd rather have you teaching mathematics, at least you put numbers in an intresting perspective! >.> Keep up the good job bro!
It comes down to the difference between reducing time and increasing speed being the affected stat. The intuitive example at the beginning would be a reduction in production *time* by 20% but that's not what the bonus grants. It's like driving a car, if you drive 100% faster, i.e. increase your *speed* by 100%, you'll reach your destination in half the time. If you reduce travel *time* , equivalent to the production time example, by 100% you're at your destination the moment you set out.
I'm surprised that they haven't fixed this with you have been pointing it out for so long.
Love your math vids Spirit. So much dedication to one game!
I love it when Spirit breaks it down, all nice like.
It's pretty simple, 4/5 = 80% which means the first takes 80% less time to perform..
5/4 = 125% which means the first works 25% faster..
3/4 = 75% (25%), 4/3 = 133.33% (33%)
Seems legit.
Romans in AOE2?? Since when?!
You should stop playing The Conquerors and try other parts :v
The formula for rate of change is (New - Old)/New. That's it. Nothing to argue
So in a nutshell: They made the mistake of mixing up "rate of quantity" with "quantity": They applied their percentage to the *rate of change of quantity* rather then the quantity itself and said it was a *change in quantity* which is wrong.
Mathematically speaking, they modified the first derivative of their quantity when talking about the quantity itself. I especially like your car analogy because the velocity is the first derivative of the position and you make it clear that you cannot say "X percent more speed" = "X percent less time / more distance".
'Unless you want to say that 133 is 25% more than 100' Hahaha. Cool and interesting video, as always.
Makes it so much clearer for me, thanks a lot
& thanks for using the metric system :)
About the Working Speeds,I always uses this
"If the Tech tree says the Building Works 20% Faster,it's means every second of that building working,it works in 1.2 Seconds"
So if you're producing a Crossbowman that took 20 Seconds,a Normal Archery Range will create a Crossbowman in 20 Seconds,while the 20% Faster would create it in 20/1.2 = 16.6 Seconds.
From this it's concluded that the "Faster Building Work Rate",and "Reduced Unit Train Time" isn't the same.
Wow!
You really opened my eyes here.
Thanks SotL!
I haven't really been paying attention in your past videos. I thought your corrections of 20% -> 25% (the only one I really remember) was a one off mistake in the game. But apparently they got them all wrong. Sounds like a patch is needed.
A well done video! Bonus points for the reference at 8:06
SotL i dont care much about the AoE2 anymore and i just came here hear you talking (english is not my native language btw). You have a nice soothing voice, i dont know your plans but you should definetly think of a career as a narrator or something
For me, Spirit's videos get clicked on faster than click bait ladies.
somehow its soothing to watch spirit of the law do game maths :D
Spirit, I love your videos. I just wish there were a Spirit of the Law for Rise of Nations as well. Even though I only play Rise of Nations, I still love to learn about AOE 2 from your content.
Spirit: "I don't want to leave people confused, or feeling like they're on the outside looking in"
Me: "It's like I'm watching someone else, living in my skin."
For those that still don't get it:
When said "50% faster" it mean the red fills at 150%, so in the time it would reach 100 it would now reach 150, and because you only need to reach 100 not 150 you don't use all the bonus, so you don't get it in 50% of the original time, but 67%.
To get at 50% of the time you would need go faster.
Anyone noticed John Green from crash course
Param Rajguru Don't forget...wait for it...the Mongols.
So, it actually reduces the time it takes to do anything but since we measure the rate which attacks are done usually it's for example #attacks/time_taken, or units_produced/time_taken. what they do probably is time_taken=time_taken*mod. and they say mod=1-0.2 for 20%. so in the end the percentage is on the bottom of the division, while what we understand usually would be the percentage to be on top. So again both viewpoints stand true, but SotL and the game speak for different things. One says about time taken while the other says about "production" so it's something divided by the time taken.
About the argument "if you go over 100% you get negative numbers", that's a mathematician's and a programmer's job to know when you can and when you can't go over 100%, that's why they don't.
Spirit of the Basic Math Laws.
10/10 Would attend class again!
But really, I'm not sure sure what's worse. That the displayed values are still false to this day or that there are adults who would really defend the "old" method?
Hey mate just wanted to know if you will do statistics videos for AoE4?
This is one of the very good video of SOTL, I have my goose pump...
This is what spawned the correct numbers shown in DE. Not all are perfect but all the ones you point out always get corrected
9 mintes explanation of t = S / (V * ration). Bravo!
Just found out I wasn't subscribed to SOTL yet
so what you do about it?
I LOVE your math videos. ♥ This one helped me A LOT in understanding!
New intro? I suppose it is just about the channel's birthday. I can't believe it's been 3 years....
Excellent video and i just love the new intro keep it up!
0:50
I'm on the outside looking inside
What do I see?
Much confusion, disillusion
All around me
-King Crimson
From a Canadian to another Canadian...
RIP Gord Downie.
One thing I always wanted to know is the difference in increased arrow volley whenever you garrison units.
From what I observed, it seems like it varies depending on the unit you garrison, with Janissaries and Hand Cannoneers giving the most additional arrows, even to the point where a good number of them garrisoned inside a Bombard Tower (Teutons) allows the tower to shoot two cannonballs instead of one, if memory serves.
So does a Janissary, Hand Cannoneer and an Elite Janissary differ in the number of bonuses they give?
How about arrow and gunpowder units in a tower/castle? And how do they all compare to Villagers?
How much of each unit do you need to garrison inside a tower/castle to use the least amount of units for the maximum amount of arrows?
Is there a maximum number of arrows that can be reached?
What about a Teutons' Bombard Tower filled with all Elite Janissaries?
What about Teutons' Crenellations? What's the best infantry for Teutons to garrison with for more arrows?
1:31 why is that archer elwphant moving backwards?
Captain Nest4r moonwalk glitch
because moonwalking
Michaeljacksephant Archer
because you touch yourself at night
You but you are You. Does that mean that you, You, is the one that touches OP's self at night?
I now know more about maths, AoE2 and you made me laugh. All that in under 9 minutes!
Missed opportunity to out of the blue spam Gaulish units on the screen, before starting your explanation involving -10s creation speed. ;)
Spirit of the Law, laying down the Law.
spirit of the law = math teacher
after learning about rate of reaction in chemistry, It make sense now.
I think the reason so many are inaccurate is because the instructions were written by programmers rather than playtesters. The programmers put down the numbers they put into the formula's and not the actual effect those bonuses have in game.
The title of the video should say "Spirits General Relativity Law" :D
Omg you used Nazaré doing maths, a brazilian meme. Never expected it, great video btw
eu tive que voltar o vídeo pra crer que era ela hahahahahahha