Cam Selection & Cam Sounds - Lunati Voodoo - 3rd Gen Camaro 305 Tuned Port Injection
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- I chose a Lunati Voodoo Part Number 10120700 flat tappet cam for my Tuned Port Injection 305 Chevy LB9 engine. This video explains why this cam was recommended and selected. I also have some sound clips at idle, in gear, in neutral and at wide open throttle from the road side.
I did not trust reusing the original cam when I rebuilt the engine because of all of the corrosion in the cylinders. Lunati recommended this one for my application as best for power across the full speed range with a torque boost across the torque curve. I will show the specifications for the original and the new Lunati cam. With a Tuned Port engine, you need to not go too wild or the tuned runners won't do their job. In addition, a TPI 305 needs a little less cam than a TPI 350. Finally, if you have an automatic transmission with a lockup torque converter, you want to keep good low end torque for driveability. If you have a roller cam engine, there should be a similar cam available to fit your engine.
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That’s amazing sounding for a stock exhaust, the engine really growls and seems to pull hard! Excellent work bringing such a good looking car back to the road!
Thank you very much!
This is exactly how i remember them, Boy! I always wanted one! My Dad knew better & would only let me have one if it was a V6...probably saved my life!
I have two 3rd gens. An 82 Trans Am and an '89 Formula 350. My Formy is stock except for the magnaflow muffler. I am going to port the heads and intake.
That’s pretty close to what I was running in my 305( 209/209 at .50 110 center) fantastic low end torque) non computer control. Mine had a lope, probably wouldn’t work with computer.
This was a good series, thanks for sharing the journey. My current project is an 82 Z28 with only 45,500 miles that was unfortunately put in a ditch at 50 mph by the previous owner, it is too twisted to fix but the engine and trans are fine, the interior is mint so I bought a really nice 84 Z28 roller to transfer the drivetrain and interior to, the roller has already been converted to rear disk brakes I have all new weatherstripping for it.
Thank you. It sounds like you have a good project putting the best of the two cars together. Good luck with it!
When I rebuilt the LB9 in my '88 IROC after nearly 30 years of ownership, I kept the stock cam; however, both the intake and outtake valves are larger, and I installed Dyno Don headers with 3" exhaust (including cat) with GGMG "muffler." Your sounds nice and throaty!
Your car sounds like it is very nice. I have been surprised how good mine sounds with it's stock type muffler. The cam isn't wild, but it certainly has some character. I'm still looking to upgrade to a 3 inch exhaust as well. I'm working on what it takes to make the adaptation to the large flange converter that my car has. There aren't any drop in kits for my cat. It has the so called "HO" converter that has a 3.6" x 2.6" oval inlet / outlet. I finally located the flange needed to fabricate an adapter. Maybe over the winter...
I really appreciate ur channel, its always so informative, direct, and consice. I have '85 TA (LB9) on the back burner as I finish my '91 Formula lb9 to FIRST SP350/357 SWAP.
Thank you and good luck on your swap!
She looks and sounds great! Keeping the mid-range punch is good for a street car, and personally, I like the torque feel, over high revving. I did something similar with the LS I put in my car, very nice now, and the SOUND, Glorious. Cheers!
Thank you! One thing I had to keep in mind is that with an automatic trans and lockup torque converter, it really needs to be able to pull away smoothly from 1000 RPM or so when you tip in. It needs a fat low end in traffic. I'm sure your LS does well, too. I really like that engine. I was around it in development on the '97 Vette and I know how much work went in to making that a great engine. If my circumstances were different, it would have been on my list.
@@bitsofwisdom460 Agreed, had mine been a 350 instead of the 305 I most likely would have simply done a cam and refresh with it but, the 305 for just was not worth it.
You read a lot of negative comments about the computer in the 85 TPI engines. I'm blown away that the stock programming was able to manage this cam.
I have heard and read similar complaints about this controller. But so far my only complaints are that the data rate to the scan tools and external software are slow and that it must run in 10k diagnostic mode to obtain data. From a driving standpoint, I have no real complaints. My only drive quality issue is that on cold driveaway (below 60 degrees F) I sometimes have a little off-idle tip-in stumble coming away from a stop for the first mile or so and need to feather the throttle a little. Overall the MAF sensor seems to be keeping things in line.
@@bitsofwisdom460 here's some info about the ECMs "One major problem when tuning an EPROM for this ECM is that the diagnostic data (ALDL) is transmitted at only 160 BAUD!. This works out to about a 1.25 second interval between the 25 Bytes of data. I have only been able to get about 6 to 8 data samples during a Quarter-Mile DragStrip run which you can imagine does not provide much feedback for tuning. (sample data are at the bottom of the page in PDF format)
The ECM that came in 1986-1989 TPI Fbody's and Vettes is a series 1227165 (165). The ALDL data rate in this model can supply diagnostic data at 8192 BAUD. The (expanded) data stream of 64 Bytes cycles through every 62.5 milliseconds (16 per second) at this BAUD rate." The difference is stark. I bought a Fitech TPI ecm and harness and plan on having that installed.
The real problem is the runner and intake were designed for torque on the low end, and the exhaust is screwed up as well. Running a 305 you would probably have to go to a 110 lca cam probably around 214 degrees @ .050s. But the previous problems would have to be done, including replacing the OEM intake with Edelbrock intake and running and replacing the exhaust manifolds with headers.
It depends on the goal. I agree that for maximum horsepower, the tuned port intake and associated hardware isn't the best. On the other hand, the tuned port system does provide great low and mid range torque. It's really quite satisfying in normal driving. It will pull higher gears and a locked torque converter where short runner systems would not. It isn't always downshifting to get into the power band. My choice here was to try to improve on the factory system without going too far and losing the torque.
Remember that when this car was introduced, the emissions and fuel economy regulations were daunting for the engineering teams. Most 5.0 V8's only made 140 to 160 HP at about 3600 - 4000 RPM. This one greatly surpassed that.
So, yes to maximize horsepower, you are correct that it would be better to have a different intake and exhaust.
I just picked up a 3rd Gen z28 I’m looking to hot rod a little bit. Just picked up a Holley carb and edelbrock intake, might go with this cam
It would seem that it could work well, but you might want to consult with Lunati tech. When I was researching cams, I started with Comp Cams and they had a modeling tool on line. It is unfortunately gone now. They have an extreme energy cam (XE256) that is supposed to be very close to this Lunati. When I ran the model for the 305, I did run data for a single plane intake and 660 cfm carb for comparison. The TPI system is really built for the low / mid torque so I wanted to see the difference. Raw numbers are likely not accurate due to assumptions chosen, but here are some comparisons:
Horsepower: TPI - HP peak 4000 RPM, Carb was plus 30 HP, peak 5000 RPM.
Torque: TPI peak at 3000, Carb peak at 3500. TPI was +20 ft-lb
TPI was plus 60 to 75 ft-lb from 1000 to 1500 RPM.
Recommended torque converter stall speed:
TPI 1200-2000, carb 2000 to 3000.
So, main takeaway is that a carb car could work well, but needs to watch the low end torque, axle ratio and converter stall.
Looks and sounds great. Wise decision to not go wild with the cam. I have a 1990 IROC L98 that I've had since 2002. It remains 99% stock (only mods are - air foil, new matched injectors, cat-back exhaust and adjustable fuel pressure regulator) and I'm very happy with it. It will never run with the modern muscle cars, but who cares as it is fun to drive and fast enough. It does lay down a bit when it is warm - it runs super strong when I first start it and it's cold, but after running for a few minutes and it comes up to temperature, it isn't nearly as strong. A bit of a mystery; however, I suspect its the coolant temp sensor that's gone bad, so that's getting changed next. Anyway - great videos, keep up the great work. 👍
Sounds like you have a good one! Just a thought on the coolant sensor. I'm not sure how much changed on the later cars, but my '85 has a coolant sensor and an air intake plenum sensor on the bottom side of the plenum. You might want to get a look with a scan tool at the reported temperatures or measure the resistance of the sensors. The factory service manual provides resistance vs temp spec. You can measure the coolant sensor at the sensor, the inlet air sensor is hard to reach and you need to measure it at the ECM connector. One additional point, my coolant sensor reads incorrect on the scan tool (too high). I replaced it and the replacement read the same. Probably an anomaly on my '85, hopefully fixed by '90.
@@bitsofwisdom460 awesome. Thanks very much for the info. I'll have a look at the air temp sensor as well. Thanks again.
@@geremychubbuck3730 you’re right, these cars are much stronger cold than at temp. There’s an inlet temp sensor relocation kit that I put in my GTA and it has helped a bit. Relocated it to the air box from under the plenum so your computer sees much cooler temps and won’t lean it out as much.
@@BlackRam17 Hi Sean - Thanks for the reply. Yes, I did the air temp sensor relocation and put in a 185 thermostat. Also did the inlet coolant delete. It's quite amazing how much ore power it has cold.
It may not hang in the quarter with them but can surprise them in the 1/8 . Still fun street car . I have the Formula 350 89 . TPI is so simple to work on and very dependable. Love it.
I think the 305 can be bored 30”over with turned and balanced crank and ported cylinder heads would give it more horsepower if you choose to go that route
I do have the 0.030 over already, that was in my early videos--long story as I went through two engine builds. I considered ported heads, but held off so far. I had a couple of shops offer to do it, but I was frankly a little cautious about who I would have do porting work. After working with engine designers and watching what goes into port design, I would want to be sure they know what they are doing. Still could be a future possibility though.
I'm very familiar with the ubiquitous 3rd gen as back in 1990 I purchased an '84 that had been involved in a front end collision that had pretty much trashed all the body work and the front sub frame. I proceeded to rebuild it better stronger faster. IROC body work and wheels, all the factory suspension goodies, factory PBR rear disc's, 3:23 posi and the icing on the cake, an '85 TPI 305 I built to '92 spec with a built 700r4. Loved that car.
That sounds like a great project and a great car!
You picked right on cam, if you can find a set of tpis/as&m long tube intake runners buy them theyre worth the price and by far the best ltr ever produced,port behind the throttle body and peanut and taper the ports where runner openings are on plenum,an air foil in throttle body and hooker or hedman shortys with y-pipe,adjustable fuel press regulator and youll wake the 305 up!
Thanks for the advice. I have looked at the AS&M parts, it looks like they may be available again. I have some work to do before I get that far, but perhaps...
I'd love to have my 3rd gen ws6 back. That was a college sweetheart 😂.
At this point your biggest performance increase will come with the addition of headers and Y pipe. if you do, then you want to swap to a heated O2 sensor and make sure there are no exhaust leaks upstream of the O2 sensor.
Yes, I expect that is right. I'm walking this line with this car trying to hold to restoration and stay factory as much as possible. I'll upgrade pipes and muffler first and see where that gets me. And yes, most people don't realize that leaks in the exhaust upstream of the O2 sensor is a bad thing because the negative pressure pulses will pull in fresh air.
Awesome. Go with 3.73 rear end. Nice car.
3.73 would probably work well, but I like the 3.42. She runs just about 2500 at 75 mph speed limit here in Michigan and has enough torque off the line to spin those fat tires. And, one of these days I still need to get the exhaust upgraded and do some tuning to make further improvements.
But also great looking car!
Thank you!
Nice sound I got a Chevy performance lt1 hot cam
But it ruined the tpi
My car was a t5 and 305 it did 275 hp and 375 tq
With a worn out 230km bottom end leaking compression bad
14.30 at 99mph
It smokes 1st gear and 2nd gear and squacked posi 3rd gear ever time
The 2nd gear sideways took me for a long to get used to
Hi there. If I may ask, how did it "ruin" the tpi? I've been reading on forums that a LT1-cam and a double-roller timing chain is the best "first modification" to go for in an LB9-car.
And also, what year is you car and do you have a Wc-t5?
Do you have any other performance-mods as well?
@@kmas8229 my car just used a single chain ported and polished heads and thin felpro hg
@@benkalinowski5834 Damn, did you do a custom tune or chip?
Thank you! You sure have some good performance numbers, that's impressive. BTW my engine shop set me up with a double row chain with the new cam.
🔥🔥🔥
Hi l have a 85 iroc L69 5 speed lm looking at rebuilding the engine next year she done 60,000 miles seals are leaking from old age, cruising around l get reasonable gas mileage, did this cam alter your mpg?
I'm in NZ and we pay around $3 a liter and it could be up to $4 dollars some time next year.
I don't want to answer that from memory because I want to be sure. I didn't have car running with the old cam, so I don't have a direct comparison, but I have a way to get you an answer that should help. I log every gallon of gas that goes in the tank and I can look up the EPA (government) certification data for comparison. It will be a couple of weeks until I can get to the log book. But I will dig in and get you an answer. I would just ask that you please subscribe if you haven't yet.
I have posted a new video answering your question:
ua-cam.com/video/3yEGn52mraQ/v-deo.html
Really hard to build power that compares close to muscle cars of anything 2000+ . Long runners just don’t support big hp numbers. Best mod is go carb. A good demon 650dp would automatically improve the drive.
Yes, it is hard to build high RPM power with the long runners. On the other hand, the low end torque is very impressive and it's fun to drive. It won't make top HP and win races against short runner strategies, but it really makes a nice street car. Strong tip in response - feels good without needing to wind it out. I'm a carb guy from way back, I can tear them down / tune them and make 'em run, but I won't do that to this one. The fuel injected package runs well, with no significant drive quality issues. I may continue to work on squeezing a little more out of it, but it's a piece of history at this point.
'Sounds good.
Thank you.
Didn't know you put a mild cam in. I suggest a chambered exhaust.
I am starting my research. I have seen some of the chambered systems, they look like they have possibilities. I am also looking at Spintech systems, they have an interesting muffler. Regardless of muffler, I need to find someone to fabricate or adapt the intermediate pipe to connect to the cat. I want to bump up the pipe size a little. This car has the "high output" system with the large high flow rectangular flange catalyst. All the aftermarket companies have stopped making systems that match to that flange. First I need the right flange (might need to be fabricated), then it needs to taper from an oval pipe to a round pipe.
How much horsepower ? Is everything else stick ?
Power is hard to determine. This engine came from the factory with one of the better cams, rated at 215 hp. Comp Cams had an online simulation tool that I used (now no longer available). I tried to pick out one of their cams that looked roughly stock equivalent and compared against a couple of their Extreme Energy cams that were close to the Lunati. My best estimate was that on an even basis, this one was probably 10 - 15 hp better with all stock components comparison. The difference seemed to be that as you opened up the exhaust, the improvement would increase. In other words, the new cams were more sensitive to exhaust restriction.
In my case, I know my exhaust is more restrictive than factory. It's still on my project list to fix that, but this car has the "high output" large mouth catalyst and no one makes a replacement system. I'm close to a solution on that.
Everything else is stock. I have found that the new cam seems to want more spark timing (responds well to initial timing increases), but I haven't worked on burning a new chip to try it yet.
i blew my original engine in my 1988 rs 5 speed...i need new engine ideas...v8 or v6 or boost and supercharge v6
Well, I can't tell you what is best. Take a look at this video, I tried to give you some things to think about that may help answer your question.
ua-cam.com/video/xsWaPaaYQNA/v-deo.html
Aren't they rollers engine ?
This one is still before rollers. I think rollers came in with other upgrades, like the valve cover fasteners and one piece crank seal. I believe it was '86.
It's the Wolverine Blue Racer 3/4 Race Cam or nothing.
I'm not familiar with that cam. I mean the 3/4 race and so forth was a common way to designate cams, but I don't know what that means in lift / duration for this application. The tuned port intake system is sensitive to high duration and overlap, so care is required to not go too big.
I see the tac red lines at 55 thought only 5.7 cars only did
I haven't verified this, but I ran across some information that said it was dependent on the factory cam. There are two basic factory cam ranges for the 305 depending on year and manual / auto etc. The smaller one is .400 lift and > 200 duration. The hotter one is what I have in the 1985 and that gets 5500 red line. The automatic WOT shift point for 1-2 is right at 5500 on mine.
Go checkout vetruski travels Channel he has one he put a cam in and does a dyno video I think you'll be surprised how much a tuned port responds to mods
Thank you, I'll plan to do that. I had been looking at possible further mods once I finish with some of the needed body / interior work.