Board Games: Crash Course Games #14
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- Опубліковано 16 жов 2024
- Today, we’re going to talk about board games, but instead of trying to trace their histories, which we’ve already covered a bit of in ep2 on ancient games, we’re going to look really closely at just two board games - Monopoly and The Settlers of Catan. These two games have been played by millions, and we’ll talk about why they’re so popular (and controversial), but more importantly these two games have helped define two approaches to board game design: the American style board game and the European style board game. Now these two different “styles” of board games are mostly just over-generalizations about board game mechanics and there’s a ton of overlap, but with the recent resurgence in board game popularity they help us more clearly define two discrete time periods in board game popularity and discuss how these approaches have been defined by the times.
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The irony in these complaints about Monopoly is that these were exactly the features that Ms. Magie hoped players would see as the flaws of capitalism.
Exactly!
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In it's current form, Monopoly is one of the worst board games, because it's almost entirely lucked based and the only viable strategy is to be a merciless capitalist bastard, kick the other people out of the game (and often your social life at the same time) and after a excruciatingly long agony, have the final player surrender. It's a monopoly on fun. And increases your odds of getting divorced by 500%.
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So Monopoly didn't have a monopoly on Monopoly?
monopoly was not ment to be a monopoly.
It wasn't even called monopoly before it got turned into a monopoly.
It was meant to be polypoly
Monopoly was suppose to be anti-monopoly but monopoly now is monopoly
poly poly poly poly...
Monopoly was not intended to become a monopoly for it intended to be ANTI monopoly
This series has been my favorite thus far!! I would really be interested in Andre hosted a Crash Course series on Game Theory. Like the Prisoner's Dilemma for example.
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I have a board game cafe near me called 'Paradice'. Yay for puns!
So, paradice are something like pseudodice? ;)
I don't know if I'd go to that cafe, seems dicey at best.
Also, they did that and don't go in full on 'Pairodice?' smh
+renendarkfire I once knew a guy who called his gaming club "Pair o' Dice Lost". He went deeper.
Never knew about Monopoly's origin until now. Really cool!
I'm glad to see even more episodes of this series. I should check out Andre's channel. He is very knowledgeable. Also, I actually met the guy recently at Power Morphicon. It's a short video for anyone who wants to see it on my channel, but I understand if you don't. It was just really nice to meet the guy.
Yay! I really thought this series was so short to already be over with but this is great that there's more! :D
Just waiting for him to do an episode on the game that gave us Hit points, character classes, and experience points in games. I'm of course talking about Dungeons and Dragons.
Episode one they mentioned RPGs with a D20 and pencil graphic.
Next episode will be it.
I can feel it in my bones.
And i'm a skeleton warrior. I only have bones.
+HistoricaHungarica the next episode is probably going to be scrabble.
When you play Monopoly by the actual rules, it's a lot shorter. In the real rules there's never any money in free parking, if you land on an unsold property and decide not to buy it it immediately goes up for auction (with no minimum bid), selling houses and hotel does not get you all your money back and you don't get extra money for landing on Go. Also there's an even build rule for houses.
It's shorter without house rules, but still longer than most people are willing to play. Once you branch out into less luck oriented games, it's hard to go back. Heck, I'm not even a big fan of Settlers anymore and I once went to the CNAC finals (placed 8th). Of course, the options are nearly limitless in the realm of board games nowadays, so there's plenty out there for everyone to enjoy.
It's better without house rules, but still not good.
Amen. You nailed it. It takes my friends and family about an hour to finish the game.
Strategy: leave the deeds in the middle of the board. When you land on property, get your own deed, pay for it to the person behind you in turns and let them make sure its the right amount. All the while the next person rolls the dice and the pattern repeats. Exception is when you roll doubles.
It's so fun because its a huge rush while everyone is buying property and making laps. Then... someone proposes a trade and its blargain time!!! So fun...
Stack up four houses on each property and make it hard for your opponents to buy houses, or force them to sell back their hotel with no housing to downgrade to... LOL ALWAYS buy the property you land on in the beginning of the game. Oranges and Reds are the most landed on in the game because of Jail. Oranges only cost $100 to buy a house as opposed to Red's $150 each.
It *CAN* be shorter, but it can also be longer.
Remember, there are no rules in monopoly about pre-arranged business arrangements and group strategy.
For years, at Christmas, there was a monopoly game that was full population, and it was absolute cut-throat business for the family. Games lasted 5-6 hours. It was a serious annual thing, there was even a trophy made for it with plaques for each year's winner. Eventually though they added 2 other games to the rotation (Risk and something else).
yeah, I was playing NES monopoly the other day and thinking "If gertrude and erwin would just become a conglomerate they'd crush me, instead of just giving me money every roll"
How to ruin friendships: Monopoly
This whole series is fantastic. Love every episode. Keep it up!
Seems like American and European board games kinda reflect the regions differences in economic policy.
A much better episode that the card games episode. This was a good use of two very different games to exemplify the old and new in board gaming and went on to talk about the growing board game hobby.
Anyone else annoyed at having to be forced in playing Monopoly using house rules when you know what the real rules are, and even more so when a person says they know all the rules (but really only know house rules) all despite the instructions and real rules clearly being written on the box/manual?
YES... People don't know the real rules of the game... Free Parking LOL Land on GO LOL Auction minimums LOL DUMB...
my childhood
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***** Forced because a game should be played according to how it's official rules in my opinion, and so I always bring it up, but usually people just wave it away and say that their house rules are the real rules or that this is how they play so it should be how you play it. I mean, it's not a big deal but it sure does irritate me quite a bit.
Free Parking will live on forever man, don't try to fight it...
I'm glad half this episode was dedicated to Monopoly. I really feel like I have experienced a crash course to learn about board games.
Snakes and Latte's! Thanks for the Toronto shout out!!!
I'm on the left end of the political spectrum but I enjoy Monopoly. If you play by the rules in the box it should rarely take more than an hour. Also, I'd say the biggest skill involved (once you learn the math) is cooperation. You have to learn how to make trades that benefit both parties and make as many such trades as you can, which one might call it the sunny side of capitalism.
Yeah my parents almost had a divorce over monopoly, my mom kept losing to my dad so for fourteen years dad instead played as the banker giving us bank loans with interest. However my dad does not like playing monopoly with me now because i became more of a strategist and beat him into bankruptcy.
damn
I Root For The Bad Guys Yeah they divorced anyway, for separate reasons
+Spencer Dalling My dad was a fanatical Monopoly player. They never divorced, but we all quit playing it with him. Of course, now that I think about it he just didn't like to lose at anything! Sorry about your folks.
I run a Game of Thrones board game meet up in NYC, it's by far my favorite game. It usually takes around 6 hours and leaves 5 out of 6 people betrayed and robbed of victory.
My family stopped playing Monopoly years ago, namely (at the time we stopped) because my brother's not so good at math and I'm bad at being an aggressor when playing games. It was very educational, though, when I was somewhat older; my parents swapped out the play money for bank books to teach me about basic finance management.
We don't play games much now, but when we do, the board game of choice is usually Settlers of Catan. ...This episode speaks to me. ;)
Ticket to Ride revitalized the industry ... a industry no one thought to compete to video games
Shoutout to GENCON in Indianapolis, one of the biggest (in not the biggest) board game convention in the U.S. Seriously opened my eyes to just how diverse the industry has become in recent decades
Hey. I love the series. Are you going to cover tabletop wargames, though? Just curious!
FYI on Toronto boardgame cafe. Snake and Lattes has two locations and there are a few other firms now open too!
Woo! Board games! Pandemic Legacy, Race for the Galaxy, 7 Wonders, Alhambra, Cosmic Encounter
Are you going to do an episode on pen & paper RPGs?
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Kind of funny how everyone hates Monopoly but it's still so popular...
Is it bad that I've never heard of Catan but I have heard of Risk & Monopoly
No
Hey Crash Course, even though you've probably already filmed all of these episodes for this series I have to ask. Will you be covering table-top role playing games such as D&D, Call of Cthulhu and Savage Worlds?
There's also a boardgame bar in Toronto called "Snakes & Lagers" (owned by the same people as Snakes & Lattés)
Before anyone bemoans Lizzie Magie being ignored there a few points you should remember
1. She didn't want to market "The Landlord Game" as a game, she insisted that it was a teaching tool
2. She didn't do a very good job defending her patent, and even let it lapse at one point
3. Parker Brothers rejected Monopoly the first two times Darrow submitted it, and only accepted after some changes were made
4. Parker Brothers eventually produced a short run of The Landlord Game as part of the buying the patent agreement.
Well put together episode, I'm glad you are pointed out how people dislike monopoly, because enough could not be said about how horribly broken it's game design is. I believe it's popularity is what nearly killed the boardgames industry.
A lot of the board game support in the 2000s has come from older Role Play gamers who don't have the time or energy to play in a full campaign (stupid jobs and I hate growing up :D) but still want to get together on a regular basis with friends to socialize and be challenged to some extent.
Hey guys, longtime fan here. Are you going to do an episode on Tabletop Model games such as Warmahordes and Warhammer 40,000?
my favorite table top game right now is Ghostbusters: The board game and it's upcoming sequel!
Doesn't get more American than a game about unfettered, ruthless capitalism
Monopoly matches lasting three hours? Well then you're not playing it right.
If you actively play the game, you can have it done in an hour or so. If you play it REALLY aggressively, you can have it done in a half hour.
The problem here is that people play it with limp wrists. They're afraid to go out and take gambles and make trades with other players. They would much rather have whatever properties they buy near the beginning of the game and just wait for people to land on that one hotel they have on that single patch of properties.
Also, at the end of the day, it can help to be the better man and admit when you're defeated. After awhile, you gotta step back, realize that it's only a matter of time before that one player with fifty hotels on two sides of the board will slowly drain everyone of their funds and win. You gotta learn to admit that.
We enjoy analyzing who won and how after almost as much as playing the game. It really doesn't matter who wins; it's fun.
Roll the dice, grab your own deed, pay the guy behind you and keep the pattern up. Makes the game go faster.
+eurodraco
Depends on which version of the rules you are playing.
If you are playing with things like:
- the free parking pot
- No auctions, (landing on a space does not mean that it has to be sold)
- and going to jail for multiple doubles
Can slow down the game a lot.
Over all it is a terrible game as their is only one strategy to winning the game, buy everything you land on.
Most of the games I've played take forever. If no monopoly is reached naturally, whom ever has the advantage in the probability of winning (some spaces are more likely to be landed on than others) will just sit with what they have and attempt to whittle the person down $10 at a time.
Two of my three favourite board games. Awesome. :D
That tetris thing on the table keeps driving me nuts. The two Z block colors are supposed to face different directions!
Could the Civilization game series get a mention? As a CIV enthusiast, I'm curious as to what, if any, major affect it has had on the community as a whole.
I'm not sure it's fair to say Euro-style board games have shorter playing times than American-style games. At least not with the breadth of games we have available now. It's also difficult to fully discern the difference between American and Euro games as the lines are getting quite blurred. Regardless, I love that there's a video sharing information on one of my favourite hobbies. I love introducing new people to the wonderful world of board games. There's something for almost everyone.
I love the game Axis and Allies. To bad it has been years ago I could play this. Glad to hear boardgames are making a comeback.
I LOVE this series. I'm going to be sad when they conclude it.
Also, I must share this quote our gaming group has. Our slogan for Risk "Risk...your friendships"
Trouble and mouse trap are my favorite board games
D and D, Risk, and Heroscape are my favorite games
ever heard of "7 Wonders", imo one of the best modern tabletop games
I have been obsessed with this game for the last couple of months. Absolutely awesome.
Lol I never thought that Quaker Oats would ever get involved in video games as claimed from videos earlier
Favourite board game is probably Last Night on Earth and its various expansions. Love that game. Actually a better zombie killing experience than some video games
No mention of GenCon, a giant board gaming convention, there in Indianapolis? It's the premier board gaming convention in the US. Origins in Columbus is a good second, then there's BGG conventions, Dice Tower and others... Also, modern American Style Games emphasize theme. Though I guess it's sort of hard to really introduce the hobby in its modern form in a short episode like this.
Interesting fact: The "house rule" that puts fines & fees into the Free Parking space actually prolongs games (on average). If you don't want a game to go on forever, don't use that house rule.
Nice cliffhanger. I can't wait until the next video.
Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition is the best board game ever. It may take 8 hours to play, but that 8 hours is a blast.
Did anyone else get bothered by how he said sett-lers? My particular region says settle-(l)ers, so it's one of those things that catches your ear.
I go between both... Don't know why. We also say, "Kah-Tahn" not "Kah-TAN."
It's like mispronouncing the Mystic Warlords of Ka'a.....so annoying.
great video Andre
Good on mike hunt to support education. Mike hunt needs to be recognized.
I could have swarm they already did an episode on this. Also, straight off the bat I think people who play board games regularly would say that it's more than just one genre.
I didn't realize there were board gaming cafe's, I'll have to see if there are any in my local aria.
My guess for the next episode would be ether Chess or Shoots & Ladders.
It's gotta be scrabble. He mentioned popular and educational. No way it's not scrabble.
McGeias I think it would be more likely to be Go then scrabble.
When are you going to do a video on Esports?
Any chance for a future episode about pinball?
My poison of choice for board games has been, and will probably remain, Carcassone and Small World. Before I split up with my boyfriend we'd sit and play Carcassone at least 3 times a week often going for a multiple series of games (because he couldn't stand losing and I was crafty :D)
Incredible thought bubble!
That episode of Tabletop is how I found out about Andre.
Watching this while attending a board game convention :-).
I don't know if Monopoly is really a good example of an American-style board game. It doesn't really have a strong theme, which is probably the most distinctive part of an American-style game (as in, Catan works just as well when you set it on a planet being colonized by humans, or on the floor of the ocean, whereas the amount of monopoly variations is on environmentally concerning levels), and the player to player conflict is really weak. Twilight Imperium has a much stronger focus on player to player interaction, and its theme is incredibly strong, with the game pretty much breaking down if you set it anywhere but in the remains of a galactic spanning empire. Cosmic Encounter is entirely focused on player to player interaction, and doesn't make really any sense if you take out the space.
Did catan bring eurogames to America by....settling it?
I would be curious to see Andre's thoughts on games like Armello, which combine board game mechanics and concepts with video game interface in a way that would be difficult/impossible to implement in real life.
Catan is fun, but the card game "Munchkin" is much more amazing (and funny).
Often "stageing" conflict between players and Monopoly has been played in 114 "countires". I don't mean to be "that guy" but I just found those hilarious.
Hey! Snakes and Lattes! I love that place!
I playes SOC once i did well but didn't really like it. I will try it again as i am a committee member of my uni's Board Game society.
If you notice at 1:17 they spelled Countries wrong
what are those 114 "contires" Monopoly is played in??
i was on the SPIEL in Essen once, kinda interesting there.
Also like Siedler von Catan, great game. greets from germany :P
gosh, i need to attend the next local monthly board game evening to play settlers of catan XD
I thought they meant "SPIEL im Essen" as in "Play in food" and I was incredibly confused, I forgot there was an Essen in the Rhineland, lol.
and of course, SPIEL can be either a noun or an imperative here, but not an infinitive XD
to explain why it is "in Essen", and not "im Essen" would go to far i guess, but just translate "im..." ("in dem") with "in the..." while "in" is just "in" just like in english.
Whateber, im now going to play in my food...
I can't wait for card games~
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I despise Settlers of Catan. To me it encapsulates all the worst parts of the Board Game genre; It's got a bland, boring and un-immersive setting and presentation, it takes forever to finish a game, it features a byzantine rules set, and worst of all, new players founder confused while experienced players lick their chops and eventually chow down while newbies helplessly bleed out in increasingly desperate misery. In that way, at least, it's an accurate simulation of real-world economics. :p My dislike for Catan is only exceeded by Manopoly, which is what Settlers of Catan would be like if made by incompetent game designers. Thanks for your informative video about these bafflingly popular games. :)
more crash course history!
Is there a playlist with Videos only hosted by John Green?
7 wonders and blood rage are the best board games I've played
Thanks vice principal Mike Hunt for this episode!
I like this host. He does a good job
yo he mentioned snakes and lattes which is literally my favourite place in toronto. i go there all the time :D
I hope you also do an episode about Pen and Paper games :3
4:04 Are you telling me that Settlers of Catan is short?
7:09 That's not a humblebrag, just a brag.
Michael Hunt. Fantastic.
AVALON HILL !!! Historical Strategy Board Game that were popular enough to spawn computer counter parts.
Woo! Toronto shout-out!
Ilove how you pronounce "Spieltage" xDDD I love that convention and I am ther every year ö.ö quite interesting to know that my country is known for making board games! Who knew!
maybe yu should mention that the German game of the year (Spiel des Jahres) is sort of the oscars of board games.
Hi Crashcourse,Can you do an episode on futuristic games? I mean games that are considered innovatives today, like the Pokemon Go phenomenon.
Love you crash course
Monopoly: If you play the game EXACTLY as the rules are written, the game takes under 2 hours. My friends and family can finish a full game of Monopoly in about an hour. Things like tax money going into the middle for Free Parking and "Land on Go $400" make the game take longer because it adds extra capital to people's hands. People last longer that way. Read the rules, it tells you that Free Parking is meant to be a free space and that nothing is supposed to happen when you land there! So many people go "huh?" when I tell them that. Read the rules!
I used playing monopoly to help my son learn to count, add and read. Once he got used to the idea of winning by buying property it was a toss up who would win.
I've never heard of Settlers of Catan in my whole life
Humblebrag? I do not think it means what you think it means.
That was just regular bragging.
Princess Bride reference ^u^
Aye. He only said it once, though, so I couldn't use the whole quote! ;)
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I almost expected a Board James cameo.
Damn last time I was this early i was still waiting for dad to come back from the store.
I once played monopoly for 4 hours once
Yeah... that sounds boring... but players of "monster games" who have played a game for 200+ hours, probably think the only bad thing about that was the choice of game.
Enclave Soldier
sounds right... although, the last hour you just feel like a robot executing the rules.
we flip the board after 6 cause it'll never end otherwise
Enclave Soldier
Game design which avoid that kind of scenarios is actually hard:
* The game degenerating into mindless repetition of rules.
* The game being dependent on all players participating, but some have already lost and have no fun (or motivation).
This is one of the things making "German games" good. Many of the classic "german games" are designed in such a way that you really can't know who won before the very last turn. (Caylus comes to mind).
I once played Monopoly for 10 hours (spread on 3 days)
Next week: Trivial Pursuit.
Scrabble hype!
1:15 I believe there is a typo, "Translated nto 47 different languages".
I'm just going to keep asking when we get to see an episode on tabletop RPGs until we get one :)
I think they film these months ahead so asking probably does nothing.
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